Tag Archives: sexual pathology

Exploring the Lifestyle of a Phone Sex Artist with Sensual Sharon Somers TPP217

Play

Sharon Somers Pic

In this episode I’m joined by Sensual Sharon Somers for a fun and exciting exploration of the lifestyle of a phone sex artist. We learn about how the industry works, what it takes to make it, what to expect, how she’s been able to make it for years as a small business woman, the freedom and efficiency of home business operations, how she compassionately entertains and soothes the bizarre and often wounded sexual psyches of countless men, the patterns she’s observed, the broader ramifications for a more sexually healthy and expressed society, and much much more!

About Sharon :

Sharon has been a phone sex operator, recording artist and writer for adult websites for 11 years now. Her voice is well known online for the recordings of hundreds of erotic short stories she has done that are posted on her own sites and on erotic short stories sites.

https://erotictalkphonesex.com/index.html

https://eroticaudiorecordings.com/

AI Generated Transcription:
(Want to help with corrections? Please contact me to learn about rewards for your efforts!)

Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello Debra Levin podcast episode summaries who is a phone sex artist extraordinaire that’s all kinds of erotic audio and I reached out to The Exodus Community on the forms of extras. Net to see if there are any folks out there would like to do some self promotion and increase I had you keep folks on this podcast and had a few people step up and want to be on the show and then she’s one of them and I’m excited to share this beautiful wild Amazing adult industry with her and learn about 11 years I believe career in doing phone sex and an erotic audio media and I’m also in that game so I always love to meet other people who are doing doing that work and share that talk shopping and learn about some of the tricks of the trade so with that said Sharon do you want to tell us about it whatever detail is appropriate to come ask your true identity and to allow you to have your stage name but just curious if you could tell the story of Sharon Summers if it’s not totally your personal thank you very much for having me first of all being like a lot of ladies in the business unfortunately I got into it because of financial desperation granted that’s not the reason all women get into it but a lot do it, the last chance type of job for some people so I found myself doing that but I I found out pretty quickly that it actually fit perfectly in with my life I wanted something where I can work from home have the freedom of hours to login logout whenever I wanted if I need to go out for the day have a dentist appointment or want to go to the theater to see a matinee I don’t have anybody’s permission I can just log out and go and I love that kind of Freedom it it really just fits in with my nature so I started doing that and then very quickly after getting into the phone sex work I started doing the erotic audios and so clients will submit their stories that they’ve written about their fantasies and I will narrate them for them and they have those to enjoy and listen to over and over and over I mean want to call is over it’s over I don’t record calls or anything help clients don’t either but when they have an erotic audio they can just listen to that anytime they want that’s actually surprised me how many have said oh yes I do he’s a few times a week and I’m like wow you’re really getting your money’s worth out of those and I started doing writing for adult websites I had always written short stories for my own enjoyment before I ever got into anything at all. I’ve been writing short stories ever since I was a teenager and so I wrote a lot of the material for the earlier adios that I did before I mainly started doing one’s the clients submitted their work to me to narrate and so there was an owner of a phone sex company that was interested in posting some of my audio is on his his phone sex site from her clients that we’re waiting for collars and what not and so he said did you write these then I suggest and he said would you be interested in writing some blogs promoting my phone sex websites and I said of course I’ve never done it before but I’m willing to try so I’ve been writing for various phone sex websites for over 10 years on a weekly basis another operators as well because not all ladies enjoy the writing that they don’t have an aptitude for it and some companies actually will require the lady to submit a couple of written works a week because it helps a site with their search engine optimization Drive clients to the side against them higher up in the Google rankings and whatnot so they need somebody to write all this content and ladies that don’t like to write themselves will find somebody like me and I will write it for them then they pay me to do it so I do that in addition to the phone and the erotic audio said I do it’s so fascinating I just feel like we could be on Shark Tank or something right now or some other kind of really found your Niche and you it sounds like this is a calling for you and there’s so many layers of opportunity in ecosystem of feel like you are like pitching to Angel Investors and you’ve got a business plan you’ve got all these things kind of dialed in and and yeah just there should be a training program because it sounds like a dream life really isn’t it built the business unfortunately or fortunately for the veterans like me it has an extremely high turnover of women that we’ll try it some will only last a few hours some will last a few days so I’m a few weeks it’s not that common to find women that have been in it for the long haul like me and yet I know a couple of other ladies that have been doing it for 20 years 35 years have really been in the game from way before the internet even when it was just people working out of little Pocono call centers and whatnot I’ve always worked at home but when it started out before the internet people were working in these call centers I can’t even imagine doing a job like this then I call center it would be crazy but I know some of them have got this experience but a lot of girls that will try it they can’t deal with it they can’t deal with the needs and wants of some of these callers cuz they can be pretty unusual to have the kind waste so they will they’re just their socks off day they can’t do it so it has a very very high turnover of women that do it what do you think it takes to be one of the long-term success. I love to know what what you feel like Nikki. The power well I can only speak for myself I don’t know what motivates other people I think for the ones that really find out quickly that it fits in well with the lifestyle that they want to work from home have the flexibility of ours what have you they make it work and that was the boat that I’m in I never went to college I had never worked from the time I finish high school until I got into this I had only ever looked after my grandmother from the time I finish high school so when you’re here for a number of years you’ve never worked a day in your life your options are kind of limited on the flea and easy I certainly didn’t want to have to go back to school I hated school it just that was not what I wanted I mean who exactly is going to hire somebody that has zero experience you know what are your options McDonald’s or Wal-Mart really and I definitely we knew I did not want to do that so I told myself from day one failure was not an option that I had to make this work and I have made it work there certainly ladies that are a lot more successful profitable than I am but I get by I get by just fine and it just it fits perfectly so I knew that I had to make it work and it definitely helped that I do the audio is in the writing because that supplements my income there’s some lady said they only do calls there’s lots of them that don’t do any audio at all most certainly don’t do any writing so I’m very glad that I have those other things that I do and I do non-adult voice work as well not a lot the majority of the voice works that I do is adult in nature but I still have several companies that I do small jobs for for PBX phone systems where you know you’re doing Prince one for accounting press two for human resources guy do stuff like that as well as those I have several of these small little jobs of months I mean they’re just tiny little things but I always figured no matter how small the job is like that even if this company is only paying me $10 a month that’s $10 I otherwise would not have it all adds to the pot at the end of the month that’s how I look at it so yeah you know sometimes I’ll get 20 of reading some months from a company other time so only be a couple but they all out outfits how you have to look at it and you never know somebody that you’ve worked for they make it some kind of a lead for you of somebody else that wants somebody to do something like this and they’ll recommend you so there’s all kinds of different things by I love the voice over work I do the most boring job I ever had for voice-over was I had to take the series of audios on english-as-a-second-language oh my God that was just torture it really was a job get through it it was just the most boring tedious thing but I’m not there to be entertained I’m there to narrate their script I realized that I’m not there to have a great time so you just get through the work and and that’s it and I’m grateful for all these little voice over jobs that come my way adults or vanilla weather brings up a good point which is that anybody who has or whatever reason the occasion to even dabble in anything they don’t industry it’s going to give you a lot of life skills and negotiation skills communication skills business personal finance all kinds of even even legal sometimes contract writing and reading skills and so I looked that you’ve been able to Branch out and just sounds like you’re living the dream of the freelancer who’s actually been able to make it and then I never have to work for the man in a way that makes you feel like you’re stuck in a cubicle 95 or something him at school, she’s like you don’t know how lucky you’ve got it I wouldn’t say I’ve living the dream you know talking to guys and every day and night about their 2 inch penis as I don’t know where that would be considered living the dream but whenever it talking to the grates on my nerves and I can’t listen to one more of them complain about how they have a 2 inch penis or some other bizarre problem I have I just keep telling myself these people you know your bread and butter people that I’ve told the first thing that they will say is all you’re so lucky to be able to work from home that is one thing that everybody says one of the first things when I when I tell people that I do that they’re they’re jealous they want to be able to work from home and they can’t and some of them I got long commutes and I mean I love live theater I go to Toronto several times a year to go see shows and lots of times I’ll be sitting on the train I go on the commuter train in the morning and these poor people there like slave helicopter laptops own and everything doing their work on the way to work and sometimes they’ll tell me oh yeah I take the train for an hour there and an hour back or there was one way to deceive in 2 hours each way I thought what kind of life is that to be commuting one to two hours each way I wouldn’t do that for anyting you know my commutes for four feet from the bed to the chair her basically I just can’t imagine people having to commute like that in their whole lives are wrapped up in this is like dark when they leave the house dark by the time they get home that’s not a life for me so I’m very very grateful I can work at home awesome yeah well I actually had they said I’ve done been this work quite a number of hours myself and I said some of the best money I’ve ever made and you always get those repeat clients and they just kind of stuck in a loop of like a broken record of the fantasy and I just want to pump you full of the money like your pinball machine or something really interesting you bring up the point about that the man with small penises and you feel like you have developed weather maybe it’s inmates you or make you feel like you’ve been able to be in some sensor a priestess of spiritual healer something some way of therapists in the sense that you’re helping people move make some progress in their their fantasy lives there and their body image of king of size issues that you get that fine that the people can rely on you for some of that type of nutrient your healing energy when I was in school so this job has fulfilled a lot of fat but it’s funny that you say about Sin all the different pant suits I remember when I started I was so worried thinking how am I going to think of a difference little scenario to spend for these guys every single time they call Will it quickly became apparent that I’d say about 90% of collars when they call they basically want the same call over again and I thought so many times for it to be so much easier if you just recorded it and replayed it because it’s almost like to know the letter to be exact sense of what they want you to say they there’s very few that actually seek a lot of variety in their fantasies most of them want to go through the exact same fantasy every single time so it’s like you can do those calls with those types of collars practically on autopilot because you know exactly what they want once you’ve done it a few times you know you have the script basically in your head and it’s funny the way that some of them just want the same thing over and over and over and I’ve had some clients for the whole 11 years and there’s still the same way it’s like every time they call they want to talk about the exact same thing so it’s kind of amusing to me honestly that there that predictable write it that I’ve had the same experience and I suppose if it’s something that doesn’t seem really self abusive or harmful then I’ll go along with it and and humor them and everything but I can’t I send it that’s them in some direction of of transcendence of of something if it’s really troubling to them a really sort of negative in some sense that but she also can’t be judgmental right so so you can you without holding anybody specifically or any specific can use talk about some of the general patterns beyond the obligatory small penis calls and maybe even talking about that it’s like what are some of these patterns that you’ve observed over that many years of what what what what’s going on inside of the mind of you lose man you know we don’t know how much, babe what what percentage of the population they really really really represent you know if statistically but but it’s great to be great to hear from you sound like what some of the the patterns are people can relate the lives of others definitely patterns that emerge once you talk to some of these people and totally different guys that have nothing to do with one another and they basically have the same fantasies the small penis humiliation calls it that’s one of my most popular calls that I get I get more of those practically than any other type of call and the pattern does quickly present itself you know this poor guy Mother Nature has shortchanged him there’s nothing he can do no matter how much money he’s willing to spend no matter what kind of surgeries he’s willing to endear there’s not really much that he can do he’s got a small dick and he’s always going to have a small deck and it is so ingrained in their minds that women are going to reject them make fun of them mock them other men are going to belittle them that I swear if these men had their greatest prayer answered and they woke up the next day with an 8 inch penis they wouldn’t know what the hell to do with it because it is so part of their psyche that they are small and inadequate to please a woman they wouldn’t know what to do with it they really wouldn’t they would be very uncomfortable there’s been several of these guys that I’ve said well why don’t you just go to an escort and they’re not going to reject you as long as you’ve got money they’re not going to reject you and they get so uncomfortable when I said that that they will do everything but a dance to get away from you know me saying that so I tried not even bother saying it anymore because it’s just falling on deaf ears they don’t really want to go to any woman that is going to accept them because that is foreign that is uncomfortable and that is unfamiliar and they don’t want it and if they did go to some escort that would take them no matter how small their dick is they would be probably as limp as a dish Rag and not able to do anything because they’re on foreign territory they’re only used two women laughing at them in or telling their girlfriends and making fun of them it’s it’s so so part of their nature now, but that’s all they’ve known their whole lives they don’t want anybody to accept them and and I said especially with a guy that’s just slightly undersized if he says I’m 5 in the North American average erect so I’m like well as small but it’s workable it’s not worth rejecting somebody over and they they don’t want to hear this they do not want to hear acceptance on any level they’re like oh no know if it’s under a tin they’re to be reasoned with they just want to be mocked and made fun of but that pattern very quickly comes out especially with those ones that group more than any other there’s there’s definite patterns guys into spanking fetishes were usually caught by mom masturbating and spank him with the punishment and even though mom may have been dead for the last 30 years they’re still beating off thinking of getting you know spanked when they were a kid for getting caught that pattern quickly came out to that that one’s very predictable if a guy has a spanking fetish the chances are he was spanked as punishment well yeah this is I would have to I would have to be honest and say I’m not a trained psychotherapist your psychoanalyst or anything but are you acting sad devil is an armchair philosopher at least of all things psychological and I think a lot of people into it the the earliest erotic experiences 10 to do the most hard wiring for the rest of your life and it’s very very interesting to see what that serve cocktail of experiences and things going on internally the chemistry and and how that sort of gels into something that creates that that template that people get stuck with running so they have you had the experience of actually seeing anyone find any well even anyone that has a desire to say hey I’ve got this recurring fantasy that I can’t break free of but I want to and can you help me kind of work through some material and gets to the point of sending me some people might say freedom from it or just having some something to even compare it to cuz if that’s all they know then they don’t even know the outside of that that Fishbowl could be my friend there was one color that comes to mind when you say that if somebody to have a fetish that they really did want to break free from he had actually gone to a psychiatrist he was so upset by it and he wanted to stop it but he couldn’t and the topic that I absolutely hate and I hate when guys ever call I usually just tell him to call somebody else he was an adult baby and these guys put diapers on and they they wet their pants and and go to the bathroom in the midst of disgusting and this guy was so upset that he enjoyed doing this he said I come home after work I put on my diaper I sit on the floor and I know I rub my cock and then I go to the bathroom in my diaper oh my God it’s just disgusting so he he was he was crying on the phone he was sober Afton upset about this and he’s like I’ve actually gone to a psychiatrist because I just don’t know what to do to stop and he’s like well the psychiatrist told me I’m not hurting anybody yes it may be kind of icky but at the end of the day I’m not hurting anybody nobody knows about it it’s not affecting anybody’s life so I’m just probably going to have to live with this attraction to this fetish and carry it out it will and I thought well the psychiatrist is right he’s not hurting anybody but it is pretty gross but I guess there’s worse things that people could be doing but I really don’t enjoy collars that wants to talk about God cuz I I have a strong X Factor about that topic but there’s people doing all kinds of weird and believe me you really don’t want to know what your coworkers are friends or neighbors or anybody is doing behind closed doors they tell me what they do behind closed doors and I’m horrified it at a lot of the stuff they tell me and nobody in their life knows about it they keep it a secret and I just get it’s amazing how they unload all this stuff and I can understand they can’t tell their wives because she kicked them out they can’t tell their friends because they would never be looked at the same so they and they wouldn’t have the nerve to tell a psychiatrist you know looking face-to-face with them these things so they find girls like me to share these desires with that they can’t tell anybody else and in a way to great honor that they are literally telling me their deepest darkest thoughts especially when there a personal client where I take their credit card information and I know their real name I know their address I know I know all this personal information so it’s even more flattering that they’re entrusting me with this deeply personal information and giving me all this trust you know what some company where they call and they can say their name is John Smith and you have no idea who they really are that is as Anonymous As It Gets I have no way of knowing when they’re calling a company like that but when it’s a direct dial type of call like I have on my own line and a couple of other lines that I work at you do have their real information and I always think you know you’re lucky I’m an honest person if you ever got some lady that decided to go Rogue and blackmail you you could be in for a whole lot of embarrassment at some of the things that they tell you but that one with the adult baby fetish he definitely really wanted to stop that but he just for whatever reason wasn’t able to stop but he just was addicted to it and some guys are addicted that is the word I would use to some of their fetishes and they know that it’s not healthy they know that is not say some of the activities that they’re engaging in and it’s like a drug they just can’t stop themselves when I think some of these guys are telling me the Craigslist personals was closed down a few years ago it was like the end of the world for a lot of the faithful to call me believe me because it was such a huge part of their sex life they would be going on these personal than having random sex with strangers and some guys say oh yeah I met this guy on the Craigslist personals and I met him in the back of his van and Home Depot parking lot good way to meet a serial killer the risks that some of these people are taking to satisfy their sexual desires if it’s honestly quite horrifying sometimes yeah I’m with you on that I would say one of the one of the creepiest scenario that I have to encounter so far in my career doing phone sex on the side is that this thing I didn’t even know it existed but he had the kind of invite me to it he had to basically prep me and you kind of give me the script ahead of time a verbally so that I would know what scenario he wanted to be kind of dropped into and in and it was the whole bug chasing thing of you heard of that already dealt with it and I mustn’t there with you on this Theodore baby thing I just want to get to 314 because Freud was all about that sexuality is actually anyting in the body that could be described as pleasurable in that begins with weather in anal repulsive or whatever that is so people just get attached to maybe don’t grow up acceptors all theories to about your whole personality being shaped by how long you’re bursting experience was whether he was a C-section or whether there was fecal matter that you were exposed to the process of blood that can determine so many things is really shaping everything that is there’s a it’s quite a bit by bit material but I honestly think that the way you’re describing is it’s like the entire Orthodox world of academic psychology and sociology if if they’re not getting PhD in this field basically studying what you’re talkin about then they have no clue because like you’re saying most people do not talk about this stuff in any other don’t then with their trusted phone sex are they all squeaky clean but I really liked on the niteflirt I remember once on the nightfort website they had kind of like a an intro little animated video clip and it’s just the kind of promote obviously the platform and kind of explain how it works what not but there was like an intro beginning to it where it showed a bus stop like a cartoon bus stop I’m just a couple of random dudes and whoever and MMA put out thought Bubbles and it was a little cartoon characters of the fantasy that they’re all thinking of separately at the bus stop and it was like all the quintessential Kink BDSM archetypes in leather and you know bondage and whatever else but it’s just like the idea that is really what’s going on if you see if we’re honest you know you could be in any crowding and everybody sort of having these thoughts for them yeah do you think that I guess you I’m curious how you would describe the sort of spectrum of you seems to be people who some people would say they don’t have anything other than vanilla you know really team like missionary romantic style pharmacies in made in that could be totally true but then there’s a whole group of people who are may be in denial or they’re fighting to suppress more homosexual or more violent or just whatever types of Tennessee’s and they may never experience it or talk about it or even like play with it much in their Fantasy Life interest people who are open and out and experiencing it in the Kink community and then there’s people who seem to be kind of release Kirsten stuck in their own world where their stuff is just running their lives and they can’t they don’t have really a healthy weight it to express that I’m just wondering if you were to just have to take a guess at the general population would save America are like helps what what ratio do you think if there is a people in different you can kind of take it however you like this what would be your if you were the Surgeon General of America and you had to be issued a report talking about the state of American fetishism and she is it we’re looking at him or you say well I don’t know about exact percentages and obviously it would be different for ladies than it is for men I do occasionally get a lady, but I get so few I can’t generalize with them as much as I can with the men because of the sheer lack of volume of women for me that I talk to but for men I would say I would say well over 70% have some kind of a you know a real king I do get ones that are just vanilla and they only want the most basic you know sex oral just very very vanilla and that’s fine I’m happy they’re very easy there’s nothing growth and talking to those guys but there’s ones that are so far off the map and I do not even cater to the more extreme ones I if if somebody’s wanting to talk about something really bad and I just don’t do it and tell him to find somebody else but some there’s definitely a lot that have a kink there is there really is and they just they can’t share it with anybody so over 70% of got some weird little fantasy and that I guess weirdness is subjective isn’t it I hear so much weirdness that may be what I would consider practically normal somebody that the civilian not in the adult industry would think oh my God that’s so weird I like her own doesn’t seem weird so I think we’re nothing normalness is all very subjective you can’t really say well the percentage of weird this percentage is kinky but there’s so many it it really surprises me how many guys that call that want to be with another guy that’s one of the top fantasy Sig I have the guys have as well as they want to talk or you don’t have a guy fuck something I’m I was shocked at that when I first started in the business that it was that widespread I mean it’s a very high percentage of collars and it’s also very high percentage of callers that are wearing ladies underwear and I never expected that I had no idea there were so many men that were wearing ladies panties under their clothes it seems pretty high from the number of guys to tell me that so those two things really stand out that are way more common than people would think yeah it’s it’s so it’s so sad in its to me and said that it’s the culture of the dominant culture so repressive it’s not just allowed to to be in body in your feminine aspect you’re coming inside in a more outspoken Republic Manor in and stole that idea that you have to hide it under your clothes and you can’t just be like hey we got Casual Friday what’s up family and Tuesday and see all kinds of measurable issues in society but you know it’s also makes me think about how the whole notion of the private citizen right to privacy and then the public officers and officials in in politicians and whatnot it’s expected that that well within reason everything that they’re all of their interest all of their past all of anything that can be dug up about their life history is fair game to scrutinize and I don’t know maybe and certainly in in more queer friendly districts like West Hollywood or the Castro I’m sure that it’s actually a selling point to your dear constituents to be a letter or something but for most of the rest of the country you would not be elected or you will be impeached her or else it is or whatever asked to resign if it were to come out that any of that any of the things you described in in in or just anything that would be considered an aberration from that vanilla whatever you would see anything beyond that would get you in deep trouble socially and politically and yet all those people who have that power they’re the ones going to the Doms and even some of the most twisted like yeah if people had any idea who exactly people would be surprised who was calling there was a chief of police that used to call me and I thought if your chief of police would you not buy a Visa gift card and just tell me your name is John Smith rather than give me your real name and your real credit card. That was the first thought in my head and he actually send me a picture of himself for his uniform and I thought are you insane do you realize the amount of embarrassment if I went rogue that I could cause you your whole Precinct to be laughing your ass off that one is one of the top ones that sticks in my mind thinking why would you be broadcasting and all I never would have known that you were you sending me pictures of yourself and you before that one really I thought was amazing it was another guy that was a district attorney in a major city and he was telling me this and I thought wow I could really cause you embarrassment if I wasn’t a trustworthy honest person and yet they’re telling you they’re real David at all this information I got all my God this is just wild it really was and there was even this very low-level celebrity oh my God I never heard of this guy but I looked up his name and I quickly found its website and mainly does direct-to-video stuff that most people wouldn’t know who it is anyway and what he wanted to talk about was so horrific that I wouldn’t do it and I don’t have a lot of limits are a lot of taboos but I have some and he was Way Beyond my limits and I thought wow buddy if your fans ever had any idea what you were into you know that they’d be with torches on your lawn I was so horrified at what this guy wanted to talk about and I thought in this is a celebrity and even though I had never heard of him somebody that had co-starred in a movie with him I certainly did know who it was cuz I watch her on a spa for all the time and I thought wow I’m sure she has no idea what her co-star is into and it just these these people to have any kind of level of being well-known and either their field of work or their Community you would think that protecting their anonymity would be of utmost importance but they really don’t seem to care so it says It’s amazing so I don’t follow Sports in anyway and he told me that he was he was wanting racial humiliation he was a black guy and I get a fair number of racial humiliation calls as well that’s one way specials it’s and he had found my website and saw that I offered this in and so he was telling me all about this so you know it was a small table wasn’t anything spectacular but I just thought wow you know if somebody follows Sports they would probably heard of this guy and here he’s calling and paying me good money to call him one racial slur after another it just says listen to me I can actually it really is so they aren’t worried about their identities or anything well yeah they make this public service announcement this is now the 21st century and there’s something called cryptocurrency and there’s ways to use VMware Anonymous step handrails and also to encrypt messages and I’m at the point now where I’m kind of going off of the Rails a bit branching out from the the platforms that take a huge cut of your earnings to provide that sort of thing at least that degree of separation with your identity and you’re just letting me within the last I’d say year 2 years has the encryption encrypted messaging app ecosystem really matured and made them user-friendly now is user-friendly enough and intuitive enough for people used on a mass scale and the Snowden Revelations have helped to accelerate the mass adoption and the development development impetus for peer-to-peer in Crypt open source technology platforms that are accessible by apps on a smartphone and then also now there’s so many different ways to do cryptocurrencies and now a stablecoin cryptocurrencies where you don’t expose people to the volatility of price fluctuation that’s a mouthful but I’m wondering if you have are you it’s apps to Tabitha like you say there’s a lot of risk and even if you did your best to not reach or allowed to be reached any of that data that you have some level of responsibility over as you conduct your business to know it’s an interesting opportunity now to to Really Leverage The Power of encrypted promises encrypting free speech of of words and of money that smell possible for people still just curious if you looked into any of that I know it’s kind of where I’m blinded I don’t even own the self to keep private insecure Issa does not use anything with high-tech and then you’ll be fine by myself I have my laptop and my corded landline so sore throat is this a cell phone because I don’t leave home that often so if I’m at the dentist or the hardware store for an hour or two I think I can afford to be out of touch with anybody for that short of a Time if it’s that important it can wait till I get back home and I’ll be able to talk to him then but I would never be doing calls out and about and I know some girls do I’ve read posts of girls doing in the aisles at Walmart and the grocery store it and I think how could you do that but hey if that’s how they want to run things that’s their business but I would not do that I wish I would not want to be doing that I was outside of my home and possibly have somebody over here me and you never know how long a collar is going to beat you. Weather is going to be 3 minutes or 3 hours you have no idea so it’s just not practical to me I would not do that so if somebody calls me I am on a corded landline in my house that’s the only place I’m ever going to be when they call but yeah all that Tech stuff is so it’s sort of a Escapes Me well if you ever have clients that want to you know I want to have you if you feel like a doll just put it out there to you I can be your your text liaison in a department is trying to be at least at least on the curb if not ahead of the curve but but certainly not is as up to speed as I can because yeah there’s a kind of feel like there’s a lot of a lot of people who are younger who mistakes with thumb how there really not having a good sense of host of keeping their identity and they’re just people are very frivolous about how much personal information they share in on internet was called it back POF plenty of wisdom and actually on that note not to go too far into the dark side but have you had any I’m sure you had some but you know what what what advice would you give note having the level experience you have about about real creepers or did you know that my make you feel let me before you have a chance with this type of mop cut them up or hang up on them if they were to get threatening or to just get weirder abusive or anything like you have any I don’t want to get all Sensational with horror stories but maybe more practical in a sense of Life what do you have a saltwater bath ready to jump into if you feel creeped out or do you have some sort of self-care and what’s the deal with the shift whether it’s creepy or not what’s a very lucky that I don’t really attract clients like that different girls attract different types of collars very much so it’s like Baskin-Robbins there’s a different flavor for everybody and I have never even come close to having any color that was stalkerish or interested in you don’t meeting or anyting I’m a very honest open direct person probably much more so would be good for I am so direct with clients if they ask me something and I’ll tell them the truth usually and other girls are more like they are there Persona they are never going to break that fourth wall to them and is a role they will never admit you know this isn’t them or whatever it says I’m just not like that and a lot of guys like that sense of reality others as sort of a bubble and they will never call you again because you’re too much reality they’re not looking for that they’re looking for Fantasy so I have never ever ever had anything remotely like that and yet I know some girls have had real problems with that very serious ones I mean the horse everyone’s and I think well maybe it’s because they’re playing this role and they’re insisting that they really are this character and it’s just all too real to the guy and I’m like oh you know that’s that’s not how it is consider more of a flooded reality so I don’t have that problem with my clients at all I’m glad to hear that that’s that’s music to my ears what would you say knowing the girls who have had that experience of living able to shake them off or what are some Clyde I honestly don’t know because they’re just running their business totally different than I am so unless they decided to move to my business model they’re going to keep having this problem I mean some of these girls will say oh I’ve got this whole back story that my character lives in such and such a place and she’s such and such an age and you know she went to this school and and she did this and that and I’m like really you go to all this trouble I might I’m just me if a guy calls I’m just me I’m not putting on any stories I say I live in Ontario Canada which is true I don’t tell them the town that I live in cuz they don’t really need to know that but I’m not making up some story about what I did or what I didn’t that that’s just not me it’s just not and yet there’s a lot of girls that they write this whole back story this like a totally separate character and if that’s how they want to do it that’s fine and I know a lot of them do that’s what they feel comfortable with they don’t want to give any real information that’s fine and I don’t give much to the ones that I do but I’m just me no matter what guy calls them if a guy says I won’t Lobby been in a gangbang recently haven’t you wanted to be not going to get what he wants because I’m too based in reality like I said some guys like that some guys don’t you want to talk about any anything you want to close with would be great or just call it a good a good first episode look forward to connecting my phone sex site is erotic Talk phone sex. Com and my erotic audio site if you want to order a custom audio is erotic audio recordings. Com some people can easily be able to contact me there if they’re interested in setting up a call well if the button says available love usually available if it says that I usually remember to set that right you can just call the number if you wanted to do a call and if you wanted to order an audio guys will email me usually with their script to get an estimate which I can do from the word count I can give them a very close estimate as to how long it will be in the price and then we go from there all right I love that will custom audio clips Galore sounds like you you’re really got this workout and it sounds like you graduated from the dependence and Reliance on 3rd party platforms and you’ve got it all sorted in house is that right on your website or how does that are you part of a network or is it all kind of have my own sci-fi I am available on many many sites that I do calls on but I only I only promote my own site because it is of or benefit to me easily if a guy comes to my own site so even though the price a guy May pay would be the same say $2 a minute which is pretty standard if he calls me through some site I might only be getting a third of that if he calls my sight I’m getting ate almost every penny of that so where do you think I’m going to direct people of course I’m I don’t even tell them what Play Time on or what names I go by or anything I only ever tell them Sheeran on a rush and that is the only place that you will find Sharon Sharon all right all right are you ready to go find her on the on that website and appreciate you again it’s been a time to be on the shoulder and a lot and look forward to next time I see you again so much and thank you so much for having me www.sprint.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition assassini and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple viper bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email ben.com namaste

Building Therapeutic Community for Male Survivors with Jim Struve TTP116

Play

Jim Struve Pic

In this episode I am joined by one of my new personal heroes, Jim Struve of MaleSurvivor.org.  He provides an overview of his life’s work in service to the male survivor community.  As a pioneer in the field he shares deep and profound insights into the scope and severity of this issue. I’m very grateful that he graciously held supportive space for me to vent my frustrations and share my concerns. Ultimately we agree that hopeful and encouraging progress is being made within the survivor community of all genders worldwide and that with better sexuality education, we may be able to effectively overcome this crisis.

Please visit http://www.MaleSurvivor.org to learn more about his great works.

About Jim:
Jim Struve, LCSW has been a practicing social worker since 1976. He is currently a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in private practice in Salt Lake City, providing psychotherapy services to individuals, couples, and groups. With special attention to mindful presence in the healing relationship, Jim works with a wide range of client issues: trauma (including male and female survivors of sexual victimization), relationship enhancement (including issues such as intimacy, assertiveness, identity, gender, self-esteem, and sexuality), healthy life choices, fostering resilience, conflict resolution, parenting, addiction recovery, and dissociative disorders (including Dissociative Identity Disorder). Jim is a founding member of MaleSurvivor.org and is Manager of the Weekends of Recovery retreat program. He was the recipient of the Richard Gartner Outstanding Clinical Services Award at the 2010 International MaleSurvivor Conference in New York City.

Jim regularly conducts workshops and trainings for professionals. He has been an Adjunct Professor for Westminster College in Salt Lake City (teaching a seminar in “Trauma, Grief, & Loss”) and he is frequently invited for in-services programs for agencies and college classes for clinical mental health students.

Publications for Jim include: “Dancing With the Patriarchy: The Politics of Sexual Abuse” (1990); The Ethical Use of Touch in Psychotherapy (1997) – co-author with Mic Hunter; “Beyond the Gay/Straight Binary: Gender and/or Sexually Diverse Male Survivors” (2018) – co-author with Howard Fradkin & Lee Beckstead; and “Empowering Male Survivors to Heal Through Community and Peer Connections” (2017) – co-author with Howard Fradkin, 2018.

AI Generated Transcription:
(Want to help with corrections? Please contact me to learn about rewards for your efforts!)

Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved welcome to Township on podcast episode number 116 I am with Jim struzzi and he is a founding member of the male Survivor organization which I had the blessing to attend to a kind of mini conference in Los Angeles a few years ago and it was just really heartwarming and really nurturing tube to feel supported in in the space of being a male Survivor myself and to just Network and really important profound shifts and subsequent events happened from from the attending that and I’ve always over the years have the intention to reach out and get someone from the organization to speak in the podcast about wood what it is that they do and I got a notification from a Facebook group one of my one of my many email list that there’s going to be a week in recovery Retreat happening and so I was able to get gym Who is the the manager of that event and also to be on the show to talk about what that offering is and I also just give us some background and history about the male Survivor organization and how this movement of exposing this issue is is really starting to to move forward more more rapidly and effectively so with that said Jim thank you so much for being here and if you could just yet helped a little bit a little bit about your your personal life path and what brings you into a leadership role okay thanks and thanks for having me and welcome to all your your listeners glad to be part of this discussion kind of concise summary version of this is that I first got into the steel back in 1976 when I began to work for Child Protective Services Agency in Atlanta Georgia I was part of the Emergency Services Unit we investigated situations of child abuse in the black them because there wasn’t a lot of males have time, staff I ended up being a sign lots of the cases of boys who were being discovered for sexual trauma work to that job for about four and a half years doing in chicken emergency working then my journey has kind of taken me into becoming a licensed clinical social worker because of that it when I left that job at 1 residential facility working with primarily boys most all of them is sexual trauma been working a couple of psychiatric hospitals were a lot of the patients were sexual trauma survivors and along the way realize that there were very few limited services for males are the emerging back then for rape recovery centers in female survivors but not much for men’s so began to figure out what we could do to help some services and was fortunate enough to bump into a couple of other clinicians and singer who was up in New Jersey in. Jamaica was up in the Twin Cities at the time and we all were struggling with the same thing of Finding Dory she resources to work with this issue and we all pleasure going to try to see if we could pull together some conference to dress that issue and we were successful in 1988 to get there was a good to be a conference in Minnesota to work with sexual offenders and they agree to the date of their conference let us organize something around male Survivor so that in the fall of 1988 in St Paul was the first Gathering that we know of anywhere it was addressing this issue and one of the concerns was it’s a stereotype about the that males are more at risk for becoming a fender so we wanted to change that perception we decide an extra to do a conference in Atlanta get its focus solely on male survivors who were not offenders and effort into 450 people from 14 countries attended added that alarm system to the formation of the organization that eventually became male Survivor. Org we all kept doing conferences every year and then finally legally Incorporated in 1995 and he organizations exist it ever since in 2001 we added the weekend to recovery Retreat program 3-day Retreat for men who have experienced sexual trauma either as children or adults in the one we doing now in August of this year in Utah will be our 69th weekend we’ve done so we’ve been around for a while I put a lot of men who come to the program gotten her resources in so I can talk a little bit about the program as we go in but that’s kind of the vice versa of our history and evolution well thank you so much for sharing that I I I did not know it went back that far and that’s really exciting to hear so you must have so much inside now and so many positive outcomes to share do you want to talk about some of the some of the the program Services other types of resources that have evolved as you’ve been doing the conferences and the Retreats and the if somebody was just getting into Discovery Miss what would what would you recommend for them what was the main thing that we run into still to this day is most men who have experienced sexual trauma at some point during the lights still really feel like they’re the only one it’s very rare that a lot of people have met anybody else where that experience is limited exposure that she will head of the media or other places so one of the biggest things that happens with the organization with the weekend is just breaking the isolation and if nothing else happens that’s life-changing and of itself since we’ve been successful through near the internet is now around so that allows people to connect to network. Rooms discussion boards that are available to website so people no longer have to remain in isolation and the other thing that’s been helpful that way especially with cell phones technology the internet people can meet each other over a huge Geographic expands to send can begin to actually Chad and talk and learn from others who had the experience there’s also been a proliferation of literature books that have been written videos YouTube not have lots of materials available some major films that have come out that address the topic so I think it’s a little bit of a chicken or the egg kind of thing that I think we and other organizations like I was heavy into was that the discussion and have been able to help Foster much more public awareness at the same time and lots more people more and more people are finding someone in their life has been touched and probably already know this but the current research has that one of every for females experience the sexual trauma in their lifetime and what’s less known as it once every 6 male experienced sexual trauma sometimes I like and I think that’s because of Reporting Act much much closer to it being just as much an issue for males as it is for females and one thing we’ve been very clear about all the way along is we don’t want it to work with mail to take away or distract from the reality of sexual trauma with females gender-inclusive we don’t want to be stealing resources competitive we want to address the matter as it relates to both issues not for one to get some more attention than the other so we’ve been collaborating where we can with organization great recovery centers to really have gender inclusive spa services available awesome also well there’s so many questions I have for someone in your position really around will recently in Utah of all places I just buy synchronicity I guess you might have heard about how there was a declaration of pornography as a Public Health crisis the the public for what would be more restrictive laws to come out and I’m just I’m in that world and in certain ways and so I’m aware of those those developments but I feel that is as much as there is a desire to address the issue of corn which is an issue no matter what side is that you’re on it is it is the Pro or con it’s an issue but I feel like the the they’re starting to do more rigorous research around the effects of corn on the brain and I I just feel like it’s starting to kind of become a more sophisticated anti-pornography movement where eventually it’s going to be a scientific and medical research question where the policy will be decided by the research and I feel like that’s what I would love to see more proactively from the Survivor movement and I’m curious if you would have inside says to know other people working on really bringing this issue and the research about the prevalence of it and trying to kind of sound an alarm and get us into more of a Alert state where were I believe it’s the state of an emergency personally because of my experience and what I’ve observed just anecdotally but you would be in probably position to say hey are we what what are the the trends with being taken very seriously and having there be more of like a a bigger scale public Service Announcement kind of curriculum upgrade excetera excetera my my chicken this is the corn debate is one of those distracting issues that has become very politicized in his stealing attention away from things are rages over attention it seems to me they were under current issue is it weed we do not provide sex education sex awareness to anybody in our culture is very hit-and-miss weather people get to itself just like to be an emergency responder where we’re going to work with accident people have to be exposed to the issues I have to be alert to what happens so you can know what to do if you get into a situation where your emergency skills are needed we do not train are you do not train or culture to be alert to the emergency of being sexually assaulted is very little attention given that sofa so many people if it happens during childhood they don’t have a reference point maybe even know if what’s occurring to them is good battery neutral that’s just happening to them they’re being what is an overwhelmed by the experience and then because we are talk about sex we don’t talk about those things people know intuitively are instinctively don’t tell anybody about it or in this happens for man so often when they when they do discloses something happen there either blamed for a why didn’t you stop it why didn’t you protect yourself in it soon then should be able to do that or there may be some when why did you go back again why did you let it happen but we get into this really cauldron for lack of better words Cesspool for probably more accurate language in where we just don’t have the resources or the capacity to understand. Even process sexual trauma we don’t talk about it we get all of our discussion into things that we can vilify like pornography and it distracts the discussion over onto that pornography is a very real issue is very important but it doesn’t allow us to keep her attention that we need basic education about sexuality we need basic awareness of sexual and gender diversity we need people to understand their own bodies we need to understand the Dynamics when were invaded when founders are violated so the people have the resources to send to deal with sexual trauma in a very different way than we currently are and it just happens for women we debate whether the skirt was too short for the men why didn’t you leave a shadow is better if we spent all her time on that and then when it becomes legal instead of mental health it’s proving who’s telling the truth who’s right even when we know someone has the dick to my house we argue over who was right through his Ron rather than how do we help someone recover from their trauma right so we there is a lot of work to be done a lot of dimensions a lot of front lines and yeah you know what I don’t know when it was not too long ago I was looking at some application for a government related job and I don’t know form online but I just could not believe there was it seemed like there were pages and pages of graphic descriptions of forms of sexual abuse that you could not have been convicted for in order to have that job and you don’t do any but I guess to the average just tell him I say zombie or sheep with this is the average person uses walking to go to the Matrix urges if they’re desensitized and numbed out it’s like oh yeah well you know their sickos and creepy stranger danger so of course they’ve got to put the stuff in there but to me when I saw that I might well have we don’t think that were in the middle of a plague right right right you had to if this was an epidemiological issue it mean if the CDC were involved and they would be doing things to lock down populations in quarantine ready and they would be proposed putting up tents and they will be flying in with hazmat suits on tube to try to understand it at this level in spurts of just be well you know it’s kind of a slap on the wrist and then you have to be registered and you go to knock on the doors and there’s just this sort of what do you call even in The Big Lebowski they made a big joke about it they made a big joke about the John Turturro being the child molester in and it was, I’ve seen other really really despicable pop-culture mockeries of this issue that just made it made it really apparent to me that people are so so autopilot cognitive dissonance completely just so it’s so disturbing and disgusting and traumatic that it it just has to have these almost a caricature release valves in popular culture but it obviously doesn’t feedback do anything really constructive and I mean even remember there was that that music video complete and total really deeply disturbing creepy depiction of the sky who was all in his thirties maybe late thirties or totally dirty and nasty and find me and he’s in this skin suit dancing in this really perverted erotic dance with this little girl and it was supposed to be this art piece and it was total crisis within your organization and and what’s what’s happening with it as you move forward if your I guess where does the rubber meets the road with with with lobbying and an advising you know the Surgeon General committees on this I mean when will the when will there be a national federal task force and when will they be Consulting with you guys or how do we push that forward I guess in question policy you know what I think I think things are changing you’ll get a focusing particular ride on male sexual trauma for this discussion here rape recovery centers are now have grown and almost every Community has some resource recovery center that’s addressing services and most of them now as a mention that the beginning here are being becoming gender-inclusive so that there is much more service awareness with that child protective service agency is there are much more aware of this happening across the gender Spectrum there’s a lot more education campaigns that are beginning to happen and it’s slow but we are getting lots of Outreach organizations that are doing a Richburg food is getting to be more and more visibility now a Survivor and over the years we’ve been doing lots of public education we will going to community show movie have a panel discussion afterwards get good attendance I with those and then there are more and more men who are beginning to find the courage because they’re getting help the treatment where they can speak out about their own experience and when you think about one in every six man has been sexually assaulted at some point in their in their lifetime if everybody begins to disclose that somewhere Somebody almost everybody’s going to know I survived her and so therefore it’s beginning to be more in the couch it is not those people over there it’s someone close in our lives that really she people uncomfortable or discomfort in to talk about it on these issues in one very clear meth is it people are sexually traumatized by strangers true it almost most of the time people know the perpetrator is someone the perpetrator was someone in their life and so therefore it’s a stranger danger of being alert to people who are already in your lives in for boys for men a lot of the assault may happen from say for example is scout leader a minister a coach someone who’s who’s in who’s in the system and some people who made the gender non-conforming the presentation may be attacked Boyd has some kind of a hate crime that involve sexual assault by people who know the person being targeted because they’re not presenting is traditionally masculine that’s one of the bigger miss that we have to begin to confront it it’s the people in our lives that we need to be alert to not not as much for getting that at folkestone just done strangers but I can talk to about the video and the other they all promote that myth that if someone is lurking in the darkness and someone going to drive by a car and kick someone out for right I’ve heard that. I’ve heard some staggering statistics it’s the places where they were trusted usually typically men who are of whatever condition that inhibits the ability to have empathy I said I would say that’s the coming out there with your skin or drug addiction or alcoholism or other I mean that’s in it but you know how I feel like there could be a some sort of threat assessment infographic that shows people very clearly Here RV overlapping Circles of you know or the concentric circles of danger and then really the private residence is the most dangerous place to be a child and you’ll be safer running away and sleeping at the park then you would be potentially where you were drunk uncle or Neighbor comes over while your parents are checking out and parents are checking out now more than ever with their phones I can’t even imagine being a nation was it she had to work as a single mother to put food on the table she had to be gone long hours and that’s just you know who opened up for dangerous in the areas that we turn our backs into have trusted so-called adults there but I’m so do you have off the top of your head just to kind of breakdown of where the you mentioned some of the service providers or trusted you know people in the community that would have access private access to children when their parents aren’t there where there’s not a group of people watching and those obviously would be the you know the sort of like if we could map math at this out culturally you know to really know where to focus efforts is at can you speak more on that I think the reality is that we start from the point where a sexual trauma can happen when someone has access to a child or another adult and the risk factors increase with some predictable trajectory when you have a child or an adult who it was it was in some degree of vulnerability like for example a young child who is in daycare has stricken baby sitters Etc there’s nothing to say that a babysitter or daycare worker is inherently in a fender but it’s a place where you need to be alert to excuse or what’s happening with a child HughesNet setting and so often let me just jump ahead it’s when children or adults have access with someone who could be in a sander and they have some pretty obvious characteristic sometimes like sudden behavioral changes to their academic performance begins to fall they want to drop out of some extracurricular activity whatever and then lot of times as parents or the child mood either going through state Missouri Southern do people say did something happen is something wrong can you tell me more about what’s going on we chant it too often because we’re busy we got other things we just thought I passed out and Dylan are being but and then you may have an adult a coach to scout leader someone else who just takes a little too much interest in being alone with the children and we should pay attention to is something actress Sarah when we have a child or an adult who has a disability who has some kind of physical mental learning disability that makes them vulnerable to need to be in share with people who have undue access to them are we paying attention and accuse if something changes that something might have happened of paying attention to the people in our lives and noticing things that might change the alert us if something happened but also go back to sex education and relationship educating people about Good Touch Bad Touch shop appropriate boundaries and appropriate boundaries and helping the people our lives pay attention to them while we pay attention to the people in our lives that’s why we’re guess we’re going to get our ourselves around this and then we need to where we can change the culture where we going we don’t excuse we don’t charm and allow mistreating people to go on the show off of the sexual jokes that happened to kind of behaviors and fraternities the go on we trying to return look the other way and see what is just kids being kids and don’t realize the risk factors that people might be being exposed to alcohol and drugs can be part of the formula but a lot of times you don’t need alcohol or drugs the culture is permissive enough to allow Congress to be crossed bright I feel like if there was a sober kind of come to Jesus meeting as a culture every night I dream of the day where we will cancel Christmas in order to have a fireside chat with some leader or group of leaders who are willing to sit there and say everybody our religions are failing us are medications are failing us are so like how everything is failing as we cannot stop this we need to call for international state of emergency and we need to get it almost like I mean I would be I would be favorable to Ace a form of sexual martial law almost don’t leave your sorry but it might be okay I mean I guess you don’t want to get too too far off the deep end with this but I I feel like a welded the sober way to frame this conversation if I if I had the chance I would ask America Odessa world the question how many instances of sexual abuse is it okay for your child to have is it like you know they’re going to experiment with drugs and alcohol so we’ll let him you know have a have a beer here and there and if you know don’t go they’ll know what the world is like I mean this people who would say that yeah you should go get beat up and bullied because then you’ll know how to be a good employee when you have a boss who who’s the president and it’s almost blase okay yeah it’s just going to happen or if you’re going to learn the hard way probably how the real world is but I think it’s really thought about that they would say actually know there’s not it’s not okay for one instance to happen ever ever okay and I think we we we sort of we act appalled after the fact driving the preventative you know infrastructure building than cultural transformation that that it would take so then the question is and maybe it’s a fair question for you I’d say there was this level of people take me seriously and they were willing to drop everything and address this issue faced on full-on it’s like the question would be how how where where could there be like experimental Community where where things like masturbation are actually applauded and there’s space for people to relieve themselves sexually as needed that don’t involve using other people as experience for they’re getting off you know if you’re there for their entertainment I mean understanding that Sexual Energy has the flow and we have to give it places the flow otherwise it’s going to get it’s going to get backed up and cause problems I mean there I have a million ideas for what a progressive you know I guess like I would like to call to rape free zone you know where it’s not just that their behavior laws but it’s it we figured out how to never let there be one moment of opportunity for you if there was really like that and experimental safe space yeah I don’t I don’t think we’re going to move ourselves Beyond this current issue through loss I don’t think this is something that we can legislate it’ll take it something that we can change through your legal interventions where I come from as a social worker as a social justice Advocate is if we can find a way into in as many settings as possible whether it’s through schools to church through parenting more and more attention helping people to learn about respectful relationships where people know what it means to be respectful and where we pay attention to our own sense of authentic needs and our own awareness of other people’s authentic needs it would seem to me that it would be hard to be abusive if people had that mindset of that training of respected authenticity and what that is going to require is first of all finding way to increase people’s tolerance to talk about sex make it so that it’s not so we talk about when we were in the Rated-R when were joking but something we could literally talk about healthy sexuality healthy needs our bodies and the reality that sexuality is part of a healthy relationship to get that in secondly just talked about and begin to have a way where people can have sexuality across the Spectrum and it’s there’s not a right way and a wrong way to be so that we can factor in all the multiplicity and diversity of how people have sexual expression to begin to teach people the communication skills to talk and non-verbally I in ways that are fancy in ways we don’t have to censor in ways that we don’t have to chew and that’s going to really help us to know when things are consenting and when they’re not when we’re really able to listen and talk openly so for my vantage point that could really be something that the intervention could start at home with parents are School teachers churches in youth groups in an adult education begin to do some of that could make a difference to do it and would make would make a job somewhere I’m sorry I hope we can continue to find ways right now the legal matters are in so many places teachers are restricted from talking about these kinds of things parents don’t want to deal with these kind of things churches have value judgments to preclude you from addressing these issues we have the legal right to back off and those restrictions and there was Prohibition and opening up and it really encouraging people I’m shocked it justifiable think if we can build relationships with those in our lives are close to and it’s safe to text more likely this someone is the victim of some kind of sexual trauma they might actually feel safe enough to step forward and say something happened to me where is right now too many people are afraid to approach somebody and even open that disclosure chili people realize something’s going on in there afraid to ask what happened you tell me what’s going on right now with these numbers being so prevalent it really it just begs the question are we is there some either deeply Insidious kind of conspiracy or maybe just threw Folly and we’re just really negligent and really ignorant or we are succumbing to really highly sophisticated intelligent mechanisms of of brainwashing or propaganda whatever it is but this but it’s like they’re the numbers don’t lie and in the numbers are only getting more staggering and worse meet you to always indicating that there’s a large percentage of people who are not reporting incidents but if the reporting of incidents has been the high-level then you know that leave so many in the shadow and it’s like we are again to go with that sort of public health model it is if we were creating conditions conducive to Mastiff rat populations you know we would and then we were having oh yeah you know that one in four one and six people have the Bubonic plague still because the snake population is down because there’s so many factors in in in the cultural design and what not and I totally agree with you it could be easily precluded by just solving solving the problem of people not knowing what to do with their sexual energy and a consensual and helping out of so-so under under the I mean I guess it’s not really useful to call him Predators it doesn’t really help it’s not I mean it can be I don’t know how we’re going to involve the approach a radical approach to really the Redemption of the perpetrators but I know there’s an organization called The Virtuous pedophiles have you heard about me today’s one about the perpetrators America still is a culture that’s dealing with issues from legal legal perspective other places so I can be in one serving of being another they are dealing with the offenders the perpetrators in ways that are trying to help them heal and overcome we do it through punishment with do for dinner and sex register for the rest of your life so we’re really not addressing the change or the process and I hope we can move more towards the models at some other countries are doing are you actually are trying to treat sexual offenders and change the issue so that those people can turn their lives around as well that’s going to make a huge difference the other thing I think it’s important to realize in this it’s hard right now because we’re being better at identifying sexual trauma so more people are stuck in storage so it may appear that the issue is getting worse we’re in some regards it may just be at the reporting is getting more accurate and what I can say optimism working with this issue for as many years as I have almost all the clients that I worked with over the years to come for help you come for a weekend they are the most incredible advocates for stopping the cycle and there was too many of them are wonderful parents are wonderful adults and they are out there soldiers trying to change the world and protect children and turn this around when you think about all the people coming in for therapy for mental health services all the people coming to rape recovery centers all the people come in Shore weekend each one of them is out there the Army is getting bigger and bigger of people who are so invested in wanting to turn this around one by one there too so I don’t know if the public sees that in the same way but there sure are a lot of feet on the ground of people who with their own children their own families their own partner they’re making a huge difference because they are aware these issues they are aware of the Dynamics they’re very alert to do it and they speak up when they see it in their lives without there is so many people who are survivors become helpers who is it helping professions and are using their time and energy to change the world an extra card show eye stye I’m an option is survey feel like a lot is happening a lot is changing I don’t know if it’s showing up yet because the reporting is becoming more and more open so it’s up here is that it’s spreading where it may I see in some ways we’re returning the return the ship around and really changing a I just don’t know if it’s showing up as much and even some of the movies in video presentations are now we’re talking about people who chew and changing our lives becoming successful in their efforts to recover from the trauma that even is a message of Hope and inspiration for dealing with this issue yeah I’m glad I’m glad you mentioned that it is a very important kind of statistical sociological phenomenon to two to go over which is at yeah it may be that we’re just getting better at the reporting becoming more aware and then actually has the more the more aware of it we we become a staggering but also give me know where once we have these like you said kind of what you know maybe the word would be early early onset triggers or or just a disproportionate well if you are a remorseless empathetic perpetrator it’s going to get harder and harder to get away with it cuz people are becoming more educated in literate and aware so that’s a good thing and then don’t work people who feel like they have a compulsion that they can get help for there will be more space for compassionate acceptance of the thing at this order and there will be more I mean right now there’s this sort of need your posturing oh yeah we would just what we eat we should just kill them all and you know that’s that’s cuz they don’t have a real solution will going to be somehow we are permitted which I don’t see that happening soon in this reality then there’s going to have to be more more proactive research and solution on that note where are you at personally or and within you know that the more than a seasoned veteran colleagues of yours at with really that what you could call in a word that fancy word pathogenesis where we know the cycle has been perpetuated cascading through generations especially in families with a full-on incest and where it’s just straight-up you’re going to be you know impregnated by somebody of your can and that’s just how this town works I mean that’s very deeply Doug in very almost at the DNA level of replicating down Athleta bloodline but there’s also the epigenetic sort of cultural what’s the word I mean I guess you could say it’s the way it’s just that it’s just taking for granted that we see it as a cycle almost like a biological parasite life cycle where it is propagates you know if you have if you have lice and in the in the in the Linens you know it’s going to continue to propagate as long as the conditions are conducive to the that lights being able to to to repopulate going down the lines but you know to break that cycle in to intervene we’re going to have to have a deeper understanding of its mechanism so with a proactive approach to the perpetrators what would you say are some are there any new ground-breaking research are there any new teams of researchers and Scholars who are who are volunteer perpetrators who are willing to be studied like pedophiles I’m sure they would be happy volunteer this in some some you know in a think tank or research facility is dedicated to why is this happening where is it coming from I think I think you’re gay the best way I can answer kind of what you were just saying I think we have to Canada and Germany get are two places that I feel like we’re doing a better job list we have 2 as we’re working with people who are offenders begin to take more time to stop and listen and stop and ask them if they’re in there too so that we can understand their dynamics of how of how boundaries. Cross how much should I charge was intentional how much it was kind of sexual preference victim was etcetera etcetera because I think we jumped in our culture does is so often we begin to form stereotypes of who people are and then we begin to put people into these boxes that we can begin to get these pictures but they may not always be true in terms of being the profile of the people where the offenders and so we need to understand the circumstances didn’t read it happened I think two examples where I see that beginning to happen is that I think colleges are beginning to and some places to look at how it is the campus sexual assault is happening in campus cultures in fraternities and sororities in campus what is it about those cultures that are allowing inbreeding people to have sexual assault be such a prominent feature so then we can know how to intervene and how to do this stuff to turn that around and throw them just jumping in and again criminalizing or bouncing on the people the offenders backing up and send what is the contextual what is the cultural what is the Environmental features that are allowing that. environment you existed for to get past dinosaur editable the military is another place military culture is really taking very seriously the issue of sexual assault and beginning to take on what are the circumstances that allow on people in the military to be sexually assaulted so that can be turned around and changed and do we have so it’s kind of finding a balance between attending to the people who are victimized beginning to work on how to protect them how to help them heal at the same time working at how does that even occur what is it what are the environmental features that she perpetuating so that can be turned around and I think the military and some of the college campus were going to have some success with that way of looking at it could be extended I wish you looked at as a whole culture I would have the breeding grounds and what are the features allowed to continue right yes very very well said and I agree with that said you were a bit more about Canada and Progressive in their approaches to harm reduction probably and I don’t mean to lump them together but just for purposes of this to talk about it one of the things that they’re both doing is taking your approach to whoever is an offender needs help to and then where in Canada specifically it should be possible to work your way off your offender registry and become a functional citizen of the culture again rather than saying now you’ve had this offense that you’re cooked and there’s no hope for you and beginning to go through Visual and written and spoken ways you can to educate the culture about what are the queues is something may someone may be getting a danger or something maybe your baby happening so we should we could be doing more of those kinds of things here you’re Classic example that we kind of have missed for example with a with a Catholic priest abuse that happened is how often an adult priest would become overly involved with a young child and him say they’ve even come to the parents house for dinner go up be the shooter up in the bedroom with the child ER take the kids camping all the timer to 7:01 would be asking why is this still hanging out all the time with children where are there adult relationships and someone might be coming in and out of the house and we don’t even ask what strength is trip charges for example when you realize that there’s somebody who you actually probably seeing the inappropriately sexual with somebody and you don’t say anything to them to stop at so it doesn’t happen again that’s just part of what happens in the fraternity about we try our backs and ignore those kind of things in a different than how we need to do with a lot of social justice issues it how often do we hear a racist comment anything which send check for the whole context were some of the things that are playing on their culture on racism how many times do people witness homophobic, your behavior is not say anything or not do anything which where where does his cross the line without contributing to bullying and harming someone we have a way that we turn our backs and don’t listen to those things that other people on the receiving end of it are acculturated if you like what I deserve that were yeah that’s just what happens because of my my status as what you whatever it is that puts me on the receiving end did you see how many times when I’m working with them with men who have been sexually traumatized and whenever there is an it happened whether it was as a child or as an adult at the time they may have said well I just deserve this or this is just what happens and where they don’t initially even say to something that was catarang they could do everything about what that’s what happens you and it’s really amazing that people can be acculturated to believe that being assaulted is something that you deserved it what is just what happens yeah it’s it’s scary and sad how the compounding trauma of being to preserve the Integrity of the family ego there’s a conspiracy among Stephen the mother is in the siblings and whoever else just to keep somebody silence and tell him they’re crazy or a liar they made it up or that they pour that they deserved it or I mean I heard recently A friend of mine who went to heinous abuse as a child and just the way the cognitive dissonance of the the culture of the family in the church group whatever I mean Aiden said something it was her grandfather who had molested a whole batch of children across multiple families all interesting do you know this guy in In-N-Out and I heard that or she said that’s what her mother said to her about what I guess with the restorative what would you call it the the Paradigm relief of birth of the mothers who would be responsible for their own children was that they would scold they would tell the children oh well you were jumping and playing on his lap you were turning him on you and or oh you know how he is you shouldn’t have been playing in his lap because you were teasing and basically say he impugned for easing the crotch of a adult man if you were a Chinese child I mean that’s but that’s how they and then they just in the interest it was interesting and I won’t even say the demographic it was a pattern that you could have zerve which is that old men are just considered kind of like it’s it’s just kind of their nature to be predatory so it’s kind of goes without saying that that well you better you better keep your guard up all the time but we’re not really going to police them we’re just going to just sort of cope with I don’t know just sort of them adapt adapting to this fact of life that that then there are just or just Scoundrels and especially if they get drunk they’re going to just so just better you better watch out and if you get it and it happens to you then you know we warned you or some someone should have warned you but now you know and you learned your lesson so don’t complain anymore if you know crazy but we have we have we have a tendency to do a lot of victim-blaming the classic thing that we’ve heard so often with females wear if you wouldn’t have been wearing that short skirt that wouldn’t have happened so the person’s short skirt is more the issue than the person who advantage of the person another victim blaming is gay people have been kind of lame because while you if you should’ve been provoking people you shouldn’t have been coming on that way you kind of responsible for being bullied because if you don’t behave yourself or you don’t suck it up and how often we’ve gay people are grown up thank you that’s just what happens if you’re gay you’re going to get hurt you’re going to get bullied on a rather than holding people accountable who are the boys we have never called you that I can’t do that that’s what I see so so wonderfully with the clients who I have worked with over the years in the manner comes our weekend is it so many most of them almost all them go away so committed that they want to find ways to work on their own issues so that they don’t forget switch how to beat a person how many of them become better Partners in their relationships how many of them become better fathers if they have children how many of them become more committed to doing things that are going to promote sound goodness and compassion the culture in it’s so neat to see people who come in one way and turn that around as they get help and go out really transformed to be able to be different people put out different energy and contribute to me that’s why I work at the end of the continue I do with the victim offenders could I see so much hope and promise and all those people that are being different in the world and changing the places where they circulate where they live awesome yeah well yeah it was probably good to say thank you for allowing me to kind of vent a little bit so box in MN to get some good feedback and be a sounding board and I’m very just this is it’s just the beginning for me to kind of reach out into the more into you or the space that you’re and I’ve been very much in the esoteric very friends kind of Realms of alternative approaches to this but I want to I’m going to need to kind of network and Bridge build and Coalition build with folks who are really holding up a more general you know open kind of framework for this so I really appreciate this this for me very pivotal moments at to start this dialogue personally and give it a few more minutes if some more of the hopeful I had a I guess that we could be good to give you time to the extent of elaborate on what you feel is no more to positive outcomes and that the Horizon 4 for the organization and also maybe some of the outline is the retreat in case folks want to start to engage in connect with that and just listen to podcast down if you are a Survivor if you have a loved one so many Network for Wiz to check out our weekends recovery and just really briefly here for purpose I were open to anyone 18 or older who has experienced any kind of sexual trauma either his child or an adult and we have people we’ve had people as old as 60 70 80 here come the door just first addressing the issue they haven’t addressed to before and the night sweats never too late it’s okay to get help at any point we have people coming in her early twenties and when is this nice about the weekends is when we have a spectrum of Ages and diversity in terms of Lifestyle issues of people bring they really learn from each other and they really ISO wrist have to put this different points in the younger people are inspired by the older people all the older people are inspired by the younger people in these kinds of ways to give people the reason the resilience to keep going on and what we do in the weekend is we work on everybody being involved in helping to set the safety guidelines for a weekend together and then threw a mixture of small group and large group activities we wave through learning mindfulness skills we work on helping people deal with grief which other Narrative of what happened to them and be heard we talked about building relationships where the people can trust and be with man we build in Civ physical activity for people to begin to maybe discover some things about nature in their own body we do some play time together cuz so many people who have head trauma have learned that life so seriously can’t find enjoy it would really help to build some networking between people they can take with them be on the weekends and a lot of people go through the weekend maintain contact with others from the weekend and they go back to their home community and even start a support group thing of extends the networking there we do a lot of attention on mindfulness happy cheap will learn skills for self-awareness and managing aspects of their life and lots of good feedback about how it’s is a powerful healing experiencing our weekend are small enough 28 man at the maximum and what is like if you’re a male Survivor to walk into a room and everybody else in their room share something about your experience that is life-changing for a lot of people cuz they may never have seen another man who openly said this happened to meet you so it’s very rewarding work to do it’s incredibly powerful to see that she was going to turn around as soon as the men have just in 3 days wow that’s that sounds amazing and so that’s how often does it happen this year were only doing the one weekend and outside in August it’s August 11th to 13th and Sunday we are program we generally do more we just doing one this year. We we usually do 3 to 4 level ones and then one Advanced every year and our Advanced is open to anybody who’s come to a level one before and what’s interesting about our advanced level which is always also done in Utah it’s a little bit longer than 2 hours longer and we usually build in some kind of a steam we grab it or we rotate between empowerment where do a lot of body work and every other year with your relationship Focus were people can come a single or they can bring a partner through the relationship and just focus on how to be in a relationship work on relationship Dynamics we have a similar weekend retreat for female survivors and we have partnered in done that where we do mixed-gender against several weekends and I’m experiment with that someone’s level ones as we go forward into future of having men and women who have been survivors share the space into healing together awesome great well yeah do you have any final words or thoughts or do you want to share the website thanks again and in just any other contact info for this year the website link is just go to mail Survivor. Org we are going to be changing some things about our program moving and try next year is correct but if you do a web search for weekends recovery is still real to find us will have a new website set up by sometime later this summer and if anyone needs to just my name Jim strube Jim struve you can look for my website and find me through that it’s just Ruby. Com not have a lot of resources at my website as well I’m a Survivor has a lot of resources there and linkages to other organizations that are doing work as a number of the groups around the country somewhere programming in survivors so anyone who’s out there it’s never too late change is possible and taglines theme we have for a weekends is dare to dream awesome you know I just I realize that you probably have one little last question for you if you don’t mind and it’s kind of a I don’t know I said maybe someday it’ll be sort of his the survivors dilemma or some of something typically men are in the closet the dirtiest ee in the closet if they feel that they’re coming out as a Survivor I think it is right when I came out as the Survivor it was a it’s it’s a real burden it’s a real burden because it’s a do you want to always be given that that what do you call it a I will for one I don’t like to put the imagery of what happened to me in anyone else’s mind feeling or shame feeling that you know she is coming out then you you do and I think that’s why families try to shame it so much as they just ate it’s it’s impolite if you know and if they at the Garden Party to talk about any of these things are sort of the atmosphere with the truth of what’s happening so we just let it happen but we covered all that but I guess the question some men do not want to come out as survivors because they fear that people will think that they work that they are now they’re gay and so does homophobia it’s more difficult for men to come out because of that stigma of the fear of being homophobic and there’s other year of being now that don’t they will be suspicion that you will be able to know what the clinical term is but a Survivor offender or what would you call it if you were the in these unfortunate cases and then you’re not healed you’re not getting support and you would become a a perpetrator yourself that if you don’t lose that Bergen and anxiety and then there’s also a third factor that I feel like his kept me from coming out fully even to the to the to this community to this mail to Everett Community ice you’ll still afraid of men I don’t want other men who are having this way been hacked and compromise to know about me p.m. to you know I still I still fear the the jokes about the you know that you don’t want to know if it’s not going to go to a few AA ttsd retreat in Vietnam it’s to me it’s it’s a it’s a threshold to feel comfortable around it’s it’s a it’s a weird inverted kind of thing words you should feel all we were all we all suffered the same thing and therefore we can have solidarity and and sort of them Fellowship run that but then I also feel that because I kind of have my own suspicions about other people who may be aren’t doing the however far along they are in their path it’s it’s it’s a it’s a pesos do you know anything has to be everyone’s in a different state of dealing with it and and I guess you know the question is is there are there mechanisms in place within your organization specifically or within the sort of Coalition of it where they say there’s a Survivor who’s really creepy or really kind of maybe they’re not all there maybe they could be still harmful big day could already be Survivor offenders obviously there needs to be spaced held for them to they were to say that they need help or that they don’t know what to do with the same way if there’s a lot of overlap so in order for me to feel safe in those environments and even to post on Facebook groups and stuff I I don’t know I don’t want to become an object of affection for someone who’s really kind of become the gremlin you know what I mean so I don’t know if that makes any sense at all but it’s sort of a come completion of these factors to be I don’t want to go with all the other survivors are known as what if there’s a bunch of perpetrators there and I guess that’s right that’s why I think it’s so valuable to seek how to ask for help start with a therapist word saved and then we can be honest about our fear as we could be honest about her biases would be honest about the issues that were having and then be able to find a reputable organization like our weekends recovery we have a good track record where we are being transparent about protecting the safety of the people that come so that we can then put ourselves in settings where we can share share share our biases and then the ultimate goal is to be able to expand our capacity to be able to be authentic and be open and being open and authentic it’s talking to protect us from other people’s Prejudice not going to protect us from some of those things in the world but if we can find her on solid Nest then we don’t have to hide we can we can deal with those issues as they come up and we can even deal with somebody who made for sure but they are triggers and we can either go week we have to realize first of all that something was done to us we didn’t do something something was done to us if we’ve been sexually assaulted and that by coming out of being transparent we don’t have to share any of the details it’s more we can just say I am a survivor it’s our business whether we want to say anything more about what that means some people shower stories some people just say I’m a Survivor but that needs to be a very individual decision to do it where I really it’s hard to look at secret so I think there’s some Freedom if we are a sexual assault Survivor to be able to say that out loud and to have it there without searing without secrets in I know I’m a Survivor myself I realized it by just being able to say that and in the context of all the work I am doing here how much it makes a difference to see I’m a Survivor and look at how functional my life isn’t how much I’m doing it doesn’t have to be a detriment it doesn’t have to be a star it we can find our own way to contribute whatever way we want it makes a difference when we have to keep it a secret we have to be in fear verses when we can be authentic and honest that is a great note fiance and I know I’m here I’m feeling the sense that you know positive role modeling of survivors for survivors will be the way that the survivors who are maybe I mean like you’re in an allergy would be in 12-step group way they’re not sure they still may feel completely possessed and they have no agency what is happening to them and through them and so I guess I guess I guess you have a solution as you’re saying very clearly create a real-life role modeling kind of 69 weekends we have a very large community of people who are learning how to be compassionate are learning how to overcome their fears of the stereotypes and are demonstrating that being a Survivor doesn’t have to be a permanent noose around your neck that you can live a thriving compassion Wonderful Life and sometimes even more compassionate because you know I hear from the women in my life who I have relations with that I’ve never even with the man who so open-hearted and compassionate and present and careful and ask me about my boundaries and my history and it said it does you know yeah there’s a there’s that that that that irony of of of having is having more sensitive if you are thank you for having me and thank you to all the listeners I hope this is been valuable than welcome any feedback or inquiries from anyone who’s listening Austin well thank you so much Jen I really appreciate you taking the time for this and yeah I will definitely be in touch and I’ll let you know as soon as that this is published and hopefully we can keep in touch tank sticker I buy thank you for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com