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In this episode I’m joined by iX-Chel
For a conversation about what she’s been up to of late, her new insights into male sexual continence and energy cultivation, her thoughts on sex workers’ empowerment, her upcoming retreat, and much more!
Reverend Priestess Sandivel, best known as iX-Chel Sandivel, is an intimacy mentor and guide. An Elite Tantra Educator and former Nike Elite Sponsored Runner, she was born in Mexico City and raised in Southern California. She is passionate about creating safe and expansive experiences that allow the human spirit to evolve with ecstatic awareness, confidence and self-love through her mentorship programs, personalized retreats in the tropical jungles of Mexico and playshop events all over the world.
Though movement practices, cultural experience, tantric breathing techniques and ceremonies, Sandivel supports others to discover a profound, ever lasting and orgasmic love within.
Adoring the Beloved Within: www.sandivel.com/retreat
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In this episode we discuss David’s work at the Earth Medicine Institute where he provides healing programs that incorporate both the loving arts and the martial arts. We then discuss some of the ethics and dangers of sexual healing work followed by an overview of some of the benefits of and precautions for the practice of semen retention.
David Bruce Leonard is a deep ecologist, body-worker, Qigong practitioner, acupuncturist, martial artist, and plant lover. He has studied medicine with teachers in Asia, North and South America, and Hawai’i. David believes that our health and the meaning of our lives are inseparable from our interactions with the natural world. He has worked in a bank, done marine whale research, and has been seen in public attempting to dance Argentine tango.
David is available for workshops and consultations in the creation of men’s groups and support circles. Private coaching sessions for men or couples are available. He can be reached via his website www.EarthMedicineInstitute.com.
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin okay so David Bruce Leonard at the Earth medicine Institute how are you doing today welcome to the tundra Punk podcast well I’m baby myself pretty well all right all right well I was introduced to your work by a dear friend of mine and I I’ve been looking at your website and excited about all the books that you’ve done and I’m very new to you and all of your great works in the world but I’m very excited I think you’re doing a lot of the stuff that I aspire to be doing in my my pets so if you don’t mind give us a kind of some background how did you get to where you’re at now and spend as much time as feels natural and then we’ll go from there and talk about some of the specifics I mean like you I’m very interested and sacred sexuality and also self-defense I think a lot of those pieces were War because I was beating up a lot of the kid so ocean traumatized as a young man and well later on when I’ve always been sort of sexually precocious when I ended up in high school I I just part of my shadow and part of whatever you want to call that there’s a part of me that really wanted to be loved and accepted by girls when I started dating so I kind of fell into that and then became very interested and sacred sexuality and eventually that became clear that was a piece of piece of shadow in the shadows the parts of ourselves you don’t want to look at it so I started doing some work with that part of myself and began writing and it’s been an ongoing process awesome so you’re in what you’re not one of the Hawaiian Islands right now so and then do you have a dwelling at that Institute site is it that works no actually I take care of my mom so I’m in on Maui and my mom is elderly and I lived with her and take care of her I’m just here for her so I want us to be as good as I can make them awesome awesome it’s so that the facility is you have like a like a Healing Center and Training Center kind of Temple Sacred Space or no we do not miss is here depending on which island them on cuz I teach on on Kauai and Maui and the big island and Oahu so this place is I use on Maui as different facilities and places on the big island and on Kauai and Oahu also but no I’m kind of medicine Institute we have been different instructors on different islands and and then when I travel I also you know I teach another places also oh that’s cool yeah I’m actually I’m really looking into and considering that kind of more of a flexible kind of gypsy model for instruction and holding in creating space for especially the darker kind of Shadow work I don’t know if this is something that you’ve encountered or that you’ve considered but there is I guess I would say for my personal experience there’s there’s a lot of potential liability when you’re opening up these deep wounds and people and you just never know what kind of support they’re going to need you can try to be very supportive but I feel like a lot of drama and personality conflicts and issues and liabilities can accumulate in one fix location I don’t know if that’s something that’s like a factor that you consider or or do not the sacred sexuality week each is erotic body work but it’s talk to couples so I don’t actually do erotic body work on clients that’s not part of what I do I train couples to work on each other I’m so in some ways that’s what it mitigates a lot of the liability because I don’t do I don’t do any erotic touching people I know people do when I think it’s fine work is just not what I choose to do Andy self-defense work is is it is an already existing system called Fast offense which I I began to learn about the roots of that back in the mid-80s and I’ve been tracking it ever since and I become certified in that a few years ago and said that work is already very established and is actually very little liability with a self-defense piece huh yeah so mostly I like right now I’m working on a series of of instructional video tapes for couples so they can learn to do a rouse work on each other so the work itself code can be therapeutic I mean theoretically it’s therapeutic if it’s done with couples but I don’t work as a therapist with people who been traumatized sexually that not with the erotic Body Works and ends with the self-defense would you work with that Banda legal issues with a picture right it’s a very tricky work and we have to be extremely squeaky-clean specialist men doing this work so right right will this is against is so exciting for me to hear that you’re bringing these two worlds together because I feel like every time I start to open my mouth as myself a sexual abuse Survivor and you know a victim of different forms of non-sexual physical emotional violence building the sacred Warrior Peaceful Warrior masculine archetype within myself as a as a response to buy wounding every time I start talking about that with people who are more on the the new age sort of trip they get sort of shut down to order they get very hostile to it because it’s it’s bringing in you know the notion of fighting in combat in and that’s something that they would just rather iick neglect or ignore as part of the reality that were in and and I think that’s not really holistic good for trail in the world you know the wonderful and beautiful and peaceful place and it can be a very violent dangerous place and we ignore either one of those possibilities that are parallel that created the work that fast was originally part of service model mugging which was created by a man than that Thomas he created fast because he was sexually assaulted as a repeatedly in an orphanage and that was how all of this work came about so I think it and I think it would take somebody like that who’s been through hell and back and come out the other side to really create something as brilliant as well as what we the now in the past offense so I can totally see why you’re doing the work and you know why I do the work and one that created the the self-defense work right eye I was exposed to his material when I listen to something it was called the self-defense Show podcast and I don’t know it’s been defunct for years I don’t even know if it’s still available online but they interviewed him and I heard that years ago and I was totally stoked on it and I picked up his book defend yourself I think it still hurts very good yeah it’s filled with those you know the powerful statistics and yet his story would just bring you to tears and and I have always since I have known about the adrenal stress response training in the model mugging and all this revolutionary scientific street self-defense combat kind of restructuring martial arts to a more practical indirect kind of format I was very have been very excited about it I haven’t myself been able to access the certification training but you want to talk a little bit about exact or actually go into detail going to death why is the fast combatives different than going to a a karate in a dojo years and there’s nothing like this work that I’ve ever seen it’s a it’s a combination of it’s in some ways it’s a huge it’s a it’s a ceiling in Sacred Space ritual disguised as a self-defense class let me back up a little bit because I have a belief or an observation that trauma is created in a hide rental in state and pretty much all that I can imagine is created and that that state is imprinted on a body in that biochemical response in adrenal response I believe there are two ways to address or two more than two ways for the two ways that I can think of off the top of my head that might be effective in addressing trauma one is to recreate the adrenalized state in Sacred Space and give them give the body a different physical outcome which is what we doing fast wee wee is scenario-based so we will recover after a lot of work a lot of preparation we will recreate a situation that was originally very traumatic we recreate the state in the person going through it and then we allow we train them to move their body in a way that I believe rewires the limbic system if it takes on a new imprint around that it basically because of trauma is like a tape Loop like a record that skips for those of us that are old enough to remember records that keeps repeating and if it’s as it is playing in the background in our bodies and it often creates a kind of hyper-vigilance it really kind of drives the bus of Our Lives when we recreate the original trauma and give the body a different outcome it’s I believe it is changes the set point of the trauma and let’s the trauma take a backseat is still there you know but it no longer drives the bus are you familiar with Peter Levine’s work no he was a book called waking the tiger and he does the exact same kind of work only cycle more psychological song about self-defense the same thing with people have been traumatized in a sacred container and then gives the body a different physical outcome to the trauma that we do the same thing in mankind project which is a men’s initiation project group I’ve been involved with will take again a traumatic situation we we recreate a scenario and then with allowing the full physical force in the body to give a different outcome to that to that trauma I believe it changes the set point in the nervous system and allows people to integrate what happened better right right well yeah so kind of even though it’s not therapy it’s a form of therapeutic work that it’s disguised as a self-defense class and then the other way I think that one can do that his can treat trauma is again in the Sacred Space but in a very parasympathetic relax space a meditation space which would be sacred sexuality and I find you no different people gravitate towards different forms of that I also see what kinds of amazing things you can do if we are willing to step back through our our integrity work as man and create a container or space that other people which other people can heal I think it’s incredibly powerful Rite Aid instructor for 18 years he created fast because he he’s so well he left he left model mugging his do some political issues that he decided he would rather not deal with which I think was a good move on his part and he really Innovative so he took model mugging which is originally for solid days of tranny they turned it into a 4-Hour class and honestly Bill him as well as being a very dedicated Warrior genius he took the the model mugging work any concentrated concentrated it added men to the mix of men can also in this work and added weapons and really kind of brought model mugging and Matt’s work into the 21st century and said what we do is we you know I have a suit I have people I work with female instructors and then the female instructor is just as important as the male instructor because she is the the voice that she is not the healthy voice the voice of the healthy healthy feminine in the woman so when the scenario is going on she’s always behind the woman she’s always giving her information feedback guiding her when when women after they’ve taken the class when they have been assaulted and their body goes into autopilot in the statistics are incredible like the statistics of it’s like 99.5% of the people to go to the class when faced with a physical violent altercation when he’s women against rape powerful men they win they say they can hear the woman’s voice in their head going through it so yeah so we do so the female structure is just as important as the mailing is the guy you know people think it’s about the suit and it’s not really about the students about the teaching modalities in the pedagogy that is involved in rear I believe rewiring people’s limbic systems awesome yes this is a conversation ever wanted to have for a long time and I’ve I’ve actually kind of on a low budget adapted what I know of these principles certainly not using the name or selling it but just with my own no dating partners and friends you know whoever I meet I’m going to give him a can of pepper spray and explain to him how to properly deployed and how to how to hold it and when to have it ready for deployment in and if we you know hit the pads and do some some striking techniques on the pads and then I’ve just got myself a motorcycle helmet and some knee pads and actually found it with that where where are you where are you normally in the LA area Los Angeles I’m do some training would be fun it’s really good just really awesome you know that when is martial artist you know we like to think you know where NC techniques and stuff and then I’m not talented but I’ve been training a long time and like a three-year-old you know everybody know how talented they are kind of comes unglued around adrenal stress cuz we’re not used to yeah do you want to talk a little bit about that or what you want first if I’m going to say for all of the things were talking about regarding the fast combatives to me at it I’m seeing it in my mind’s eye because I’ve watched the videos and night and I’m an Enthusiast of it but to put the picture together for people who haven’t seen that do you want to come to describe what a minute or two of the of the takedowns and the we bring people into a container of salt container depends on this is just women sometimes it’s women and men and we teach them body language in queuing how to deescalate situations 90% of the fast work is about D escalating a situation so that it doesn’t go to a violent confrontation and they don’t have a lot of statistics and techniques and not but it is reasonably simple once you learn how to avoid a violent confrontation and get home safe and Alive you know once that so we do that we teach body language cueing what creditors look for in situations how to see violence situations when they’re on the way and avoid them and if there is a verbal confrontation how did the Escalade that confrontation I think the stats that bill gives is that I think seventy or eighty percent of assaults on women are done with only verbal intimidation no physical intimidation no exit by intimidation but 90% of verbal confrontation scan BD escalated or maybe higher with just words alone and it’s a matter of body language and what were putting out to the world that’s what we teach first cuz obviously you know if we can avoid violence that’s the best option I was just watching a video the other day and he said he said the speaker said violence is a last resort but when it raised our Resort is the only Resorts the only choice violence is always the last choice but when it is our choices becomes the only choice and that I believe that’s what we do in fast so once it’s clear there is absolutely no way to avoid a violent confrontation then we train peoples on large muscle groups to go into action and when were adrenalized when we’re a high adrenaline state which is basically in any confrontation we lose peripheral vision we get tunnel vision we get we lose fine motor control you know car keys and things like that and and we and we also get time to scotian and auditory exclusion we can’t hear so what that means is that we don’t have all our Resources with us what we do have continued to have is large muscle groups and so we teach people these large muscle movements big movements that are extremely effective that they don’t even have to remember because they won’t remember be able to remember the fine motor skill techniques that they will be able to remember these big muscle groups on my training partner here was about six months ago she was down and the beach here and she was attacked by a guy to come out of nowhere and punched her in the stomach or not and she’s not are the female instructor Sabrina that I work with and she she Palm healed in the face and broke his nose she kneed him in the groin she kneed him in the face and then she stomped on his head and then called the police and this is a very traumatic thing but her body did it automatically think about it you just did it you know and that’s that’s what we’re looking for so we we basically take a student and we teach them to deescalate a violent situation once it’s really obvious there’s there’s no way out of the violence if no way around it we teach them to cut loose with very very powerful techniques that basically finish the confrontation very quickly and because we do it in the hydranal and stayed the the the student it goes directly into the limbic system it becomes on autopilot goes right into muscle memory and so and we have to actually part of the training is when they’re in the adrenal stay when they’re done with the quote on quote we have them put your hands up and look around and we should call nine-one-one or go get help because they might forget to do that as a maybe other people in the situation you know so for me this is like I said it’s genius and Peyton Quinn and Bill kept are geniuses in my in my in my mind because they have that they’re not afraid of bucking the the martial arts system they just want to go for what’s true and what really works rather than going with tradition and you know people playing tag in their pajamas. I’ve been and what Bruce Lee said was you know Kung Fu is is is like a beautiful form of feather dusting when it comes time for I’m glad you I like to two point that that kind of stuff out and I think the the one of those things so I’ll try to say to people as you know those you see those Aikido Masters that have all that fine motor control and a state where most people would be very adrenalized but the thing is they are Masters and they come from a cultural tradition where you don’t just go one or two nights a week for a couple hours after work to have your hobby or these are everyday all-day training other people and not everybody makes it there an issue it’s not a they don’t I’ll make it they have to weed weed people out the students so the what you see in the movies with all this finessed technique of like a lot of time in indigenous healing Traditions or however we want to call it you know how to be sewn underground and so I I say that’s kind of reflected in how we how I approached this kind of thing even though you know today will will it will post the events publicly on Facebook and things like that there is still a ring to it that is about you’re not waiting for us to be given our our approval by by Society you know we just know that it’s important so we do this and and so like I’ve been doing this constantly one of my goals that I set out of certain point was that at least you know once a year there would be a community gathering around love sex intelligence and the rest of the time you know we haven’t online for him but very important for that hole project has been and which we’ve stepped it up in the recent months to make sure that hopefully like every month we can do something is to to say that the community around learning about how to how to harmonise our relationships how to defend our sexuality into something that is you know how uplifting our spiritual path is something that needs to be done you know with with with more support and so that’s why it’s it can’t just functioning online capacity so that’s something I’ve committed to we have we have been actually our next events is focusing squarely on sexual initiation I’m pink resented by someone named y’all Lila Espinosa is looking at how to tweeze mower practices that she learned in Peru you know have informed her own healing and and then creating her own initiation but yeah I also you know as an astrologer I work with people and often it is around relating I’ve done a little bit of like you know support for people I think what happens is you know when when you become a central figure in any given Community people will come to you when they’re in crisis and this is what has informed my my the work that I do around you know Rites of Passage is responding to crisis from a place that seeks to get to the root of what is causing the crisis which in so many cases is that there is a lack of of support and people therefore will resort to self initiation just something I’ve had to do in my own life and and see it so much the case for some of the other people and there’s another psychological shifts that occur when people an emotional shift that occur when people feel a sense that they’re being held that they are being that they can fit they can let go and have a safe space to go into those wounds and begin working on them and of course it would help if we had a little more guidance and how to do that but thought comes over over time you know we have to work from where we’re at and so that’s something that I’ve been in in the my own process of of my own work around here figuring what those things are with those tools are and Tom yeah like I said I’m not an expert but I can at least Point people in some directions I guess what we’re looking at here is that there’s an underground space very intentional underground space that is more conducive to kind of freestyling or rolling your own ceremony and just holding the light and and letting those who it call who are called to it you know it would become integrated into keep it at the gala Therrien and flowing so that you don’t have cult of personality and politics and all of the scenester Hipster things coming in and that’s always up in it and he has to be on guard against and whatnot so I see there’s that unfoldment in that development and then there’s people who are also working like stay in the social work field who are informing their peers and colleagues in those sectors with these Neo shamanic techniques or nonviolent communication or your where it’s legal and accessible and permissible you know legally again to be able to put people on amor I guess like prisons prison you Lila has a very and I’ve done some I interviewed her in the past and I’m a big fan of what she’s doing and I know she has a strong background in clinical social work and is feeding back into that sector the wisdom of of the Amazon and and Beyond and so is that something that you have I just thought I remember reading somewhere you know or talk to you at some point about how this is this is like you could be hired by the more formal above ground and sectors of social work or Community work with where you can be brought in to bring some of the stuff that would normally be or I guess it’s just that it’s a very interesting Cutting Edge of an intersection and I if I’m not mistaken that’s that you you are like sort of partially in that world 2 of of social work or is that something I understand correctly yeah I’ll I will string this conversation back and see where where I where I am placed social work as well as all the modalities of counseling and healing you know like they are all part and parcel to supporting and upholding status quo capitalist system so I’m going to like you know like you know also haven’t been in the punk scene also had a big enough impact on my my party now 13 m in terms of healing these wounds we have to look at that and I we can’t we can’t say like that are healing is going to be independent of the world that is reeling and suffering from the continuation of this system as it is and so that’s where for me like bringing capitalism into the equation is is something that’s real tricky it’s something that I feel needs to be kind of understood. You know we we can’t just rely on having sting services that we can pay for because that creates a gap you know where some people are going to have accessible abilities to to the healing and others won’t and that’s that’s not healthy for anyone and and also that it doesn’t address the root cause of why we need social workers to begin with and why we need counseling and all of that so I really like the notion of cultural healing that’s where more where I would be comfortable in any way kind of looking at myself as any kind of healer I don’t think we we can really heal individuals that’s really something that you know a person will need to and it’s not like they can be facilitated to do their own healing work but nobody can fix us we have to fix ourselves that’s that’s more I think a more powerful Paradigm to be apart of but you know I I I have worked in the realm of I focused therapy and you know I have spent quite a bit of time around the spirit plant medicines and seeing how the plant medicines have assisted and I do I do continue continuously work to increase my knowledge and wisdom around working with us plants and and that also brings us back into that hole realm of discussion around you know ancestors and working with them or perhaps that’s something we haven’t really touched upon but maybe she said it’s just that in any form of healing that we do I guess for me the important thing that I really try to bring into whatever I do connecting back with her ancestors and healing the trauma of how we were disconnected from those ancestors and how that plays out in any kind of sexual wounds or emotional wounds that we carry and so that’s something that I I I feel like the role of initiation and ritual can can really do and that’s that’s been its Province ever since people began doing patrols I think it’s to build upon the legacy of their ancestors and to draw and their their help and support cool said that yeah thank you for helping me understand the other parameters a little better and and 100% there with you I have I have been because I live in the United States where there’s different laws around no prostitution in in how that affects the healing with sexual touch and pleasure as medicine and stuff like that is a lot more yes I understand in in Canada there’s there’s a lot more interesting legal space in order to do Hands-On Sexual Healing work relative to the US where it’s completely off limits in so I because of that adapting to that reality and also is a permaculture designer myself I have to think very deeply about how to navigate this issue of for-profit healing work that kind of in most sectors is about like you said I’ll put in my own words it’s like they want to know if if the if you’re at a time of time robot that supposed to be producing a set amount to be a productive member of the of the GDP then then if you’re not functioning properly than the the goal of the mainstream social work or psychotherapeutic or psychiatric Fields they’re trying to get you back into the rat race as soon as possible and they’ll do that with drugs with talk therapy or whatever that is about avoiding through tissue which is the disconnection from urethane from a healthy holistic wild habitat you know a night as a primitivist I see that you know the solution to your Neurosis is to retry belies and Get Growing your own food again in and rebuild that fabric so you know there with you on that tension about right livelihood in and taking money for healing and what is he doing so I really like what you said and that just is going to it’s going to help me a lot looking at healing the cultural level and healing the if I’m understanding right and I’ll put a couple my own words on it but I feel like we’re trying to build the scaffolding or were trying to design the context for people to take the responsibility of a personal healing and gone to that journey and so if you if what would you say are some practical skills are tools from all of your things that you would teaching and training and a things that you discovered in your own journey to where you’re in power tools for empowerment that you suggest or are resources that you suggest people Explorer to if they’re called to do the cultural healing work weather for profit or non-profit. Some dance between the two or it and then what what are some recommendations for people who are on their own path and aren’t necessarily called to do the the cultural healing yeah I mean it’s it’s a pretty vast subject that one but I think that a few points that I could think about and talk about our that I’m going to this idea of bringing you back in the station rights and recognizing that in the absence of them what do we have you know we are we are sadly in there without initiated Elders so many of us and if there are any of Elders that hold that ability to to guide those those ones are those are worth their weight in gold you know there really is people that we should try to lift up and and give them their recognition and see you know and then in the absence of that it’s like we kind of by default Our Generations people that will have to hopefully fulfill that and reach a place where we can actually help upcoming generations to go in a way that they don’t have to completely go it alone and and figure it out on them on their own the way that so many of us have had to and so there is a movement around Rites of Passage I sit on the board if you passageways which is a network that focus is squarely on you no Rites of Passage for you coming of age from all different walks and and and modalities you know some of them are our Boys to Men oriented some of them are girls to women some of them are starting to incorporate non gender binary kind of approaches as well which is good and and this whole focus on bringing back the ancestors into looking at Rites of Passage is is starting to happen and something that I focused on and so that’s that’s a resource you know people can go to youth passageways. Oregon and look at what programs are out there and they can also think about how they can add to that list and bring in things that are needed around especially around sexuality and relationship which is often I noticed kind of a big gap in a lot of programs out there you know because they’re confined confined or constrained by the conservative values where they take place and you know what school system is you know this is one of those places lagging for that kind of thing so it’s a role that I think that many people who understand the need can step into and cultivate as career paths you know and some people are pig figuring out how they can weave their credentials says on Sexual Health Educators or sexual therapist or sexual trauma or no trauma-based therapists you know into this realm of initiation and that’s that needs to happen on a on an increased level the other I see a lot of because of what I was saying around looks really don’t how many Avenues to learn other than through you know what the books in the workshops and offerings around sexuality thoughts unfortunately are not rooted in in people’s only need two lineages generally speaking you know so the whole Tantra movement is pretty much so you know a cultural appropriator of New Age fight version of those Traditions that would have been squashed by Christianity especially and so I think there’s work to be done there and as much as possible Retreat retrieving reconstructing are reconnecting with our own ancestral Traditions which I’m sure you know had their own knowledge wisdom around how to how to raise healthy harmonious individuals with healthy sexualities from from the vantage point of how what little I do know has been has been done in indigenous cultures and without wanting to appropriate for them from them I’ll just give way of examples out of that you know in and certain cultures that are studied like the Mayan culture and I think to some degree on certain places within Creek culture there’s examples of how as societies you know that the children are raised from an early age 2 reach a point where they understand how to how to harmonize with the other sex and how to to look after each other and that’s just a very basic principle that I feel like you know that’s that’s worth kind of learning how to integrate into our family structures if we have children that were raising just to keep in mind that you know there is a need for them to learn skills around things like consent and around being responsible with with one’s sexual energies and and I needs to start before they reach that age of adolescence where they’re just harder to connect with if you haven’t built up that Foundation so that’s something that I think about will do you so if I if if we check out that the organization that you mention is it would that be good place to find and something like a more enlightened or more conscious like sexual education curriculum or guidebook do you know if people were working on something like that so if I know if you know parents who were going through the puberty of their child that they have something that’s not just this cold clinical Western and even though that sort of evolving a little bit you know with things like a sack didn’t and whatnot I see a lot but the The ancestral wisdom and you know the ceremonial Rites of Passage you know how does it how does the Modern Family say okay well you’re about to start feeling you know hormonal Energy’s how do we give you know create even if it’s just within their family or their Community yoga or whatever is something more than what’s being offered in the normal sex ed or what they’re listening in gangster rap music and watching on sitcoms obviously you know it’s enough for lack of lot of alternative options it’s one one place to look and we’re always looking for others so whenever we discover something then we will see to auditory resources and we are trying to vet those resources and those organizations to make sure that they really are you know at least there’s some some level of you know safe recommendation that we can give for those those organizations we’re not we’re not in the position to really kind of completely you know set standards but we are trying to we have a code of what we call it a cross-cultural protocol so we do look at that aspect that you have for what we’re talking about that’s you know if that’s another layer that we will hopefully get to eventually and I do know that there are people within our Network who are really strongly focused on this particularly around girls to women kind of education and and Rites of Passage and some of the Boys to Men once but I think it’s also something we need to to enhance as well oh that’s great yeah that’s that’s that’s what I wanted to hear so that I can just refer people to this ongoing and so and then the LSI is kind of its there’s a Facebook I’ve been interacting with the the Facebook group for a while so is that something you recommend people plug-in I mean that’s the goal of that is to feature blogs and generate discussions from those blogs and also to establish a resource of services as well as information and so that’s you know running on in a very limited volunteer capacity and so you know it’s something that I hope will eventually become a very powerful resource but already it’s you know it’s been feedback that I’ve received that you know even just the the group that we have on Facebook somebody posted recently. You know it’s really help them in their in their path which is nice to hear and I’ve heard that a few times and I try to curate that group in such a way where it’s like you know it’s trying to generate discussion and it’s it’s trying to be a safe space where where people can get into some of those I’m intimate revealing is of what what’s going on in their lives one of the things that kind of came out of love sex intelligence local as a connection with Tamara and the love school that they have which is a very congruence philosophy to love sex intelligence and they’re their work to try to create or with to create safe spaces for people to to share stories of what’s going on in their intimate lover sexual lives and and B witnessed in a way that is non-judgemental where they’re not being flooded with advice but more just being witnessed which is kind of connected to that whole framework for Rites of Passage itm witnessing each other and so it’s it’s trying to also look at how you know communities can succeed in their in their goals which might include you know like being more sustainable or being an alternative to the systems around us and also being a part of a more peaceful kind of culture through filling this hole that is often where things go wrong where people are are are not feeling safe to talk about these these human experiences around wounding around are our hearts and our sexuality so I’ve been part of a Practice Group here that has been circulating also to other parts of BC and I think it’s a really it’s a really powerful movement to be a part of yeah we’re getting close to an hour or so I have to take a few more minutes and I’m get a couple thoughts and feelings some responsible for 1 something that his is coming up for me that I think it’s really empowering is this like idea that wouldn’t it be nice if some of us started to think of ourselves as aspiring Elders I’ve never thought of it that way until this conversation and there’s a little spark of joy and me that that says you know puts in context the the punk rock lifestyle that I had of live fast Die Young and just you know if it’s not throwing yourself into the meat grinder of insurrectionary activism you know with this sort of Death Wish you know this martyr complex or whatever it’s like those are really unsustainable archetypes to follow and they leave a lot of people when they get to my age in about 35 like in a sort of existential crisis that will the revolution didn’t happen and I didn’t get killed I didn’t die in the gutter you know I mean what am I going to do now and it’s like well maybe it’s time to become an aspiring Elder and you know clean up your act and and then start to think about how you’re going to make it easier cuz I there’s a lot of things that I had to go through that I would seriously love to have no one else ever have to go through and if you know if we can live in that. you know that is what you’re supposed to think that I think of you say you know you can you can learn from the wisdom of Elders who have gone through and made the mistakes that you’re probably going to go through or you can just be hard-headed and learn all your lessons the hard way but I mean we’ve had to learn a lot of hard lessons in the absence of the eldership but I think if we take on that there’s a yeah me too. It seems obvious but really the way you put it his medicine for me to think you know it’s a dignified path to be an aspiring Elder and then it makes you not be so how do I can help you defeat that that that grinding pressure that oh my I’m going to lose my looks and I’m going to lose my energy and I’m going to be in the state of deprecation towards death and that’s very much the greatest fear of the western manicured Uno photoshopped airbrushed identity like you’re not really giving any hope that aging will be of any benefit in here just marginalized further and further so I thank you for that serve very much still give that time sacred eldership dignity not a light title to hold I think the true Elder wouldn’t really feel comfortable in it cuz it’s defining attributes of an elder that is really one that can help that role be the best it can be is one that is is really accountable is really present isn’t so on the move that if you can’t you know be relied upon to be there for the people that it serves now needs to ideally be in the in the fellowship of other Elders to kind of keep it in in in check in a way like we have to watch for the Cole group kind of phenomenon where people you know place a lot of weight on that person and in a way that can privilege them in certain ways and also lead to potential like power distortions and things like that you know it’s it’s only human that people will make mistakes and so having that kind of accountability of other people and also that time yeah you have people heart or a different there’s always like in every phase of life with the lifecycle there’s there’s like the maturing phases and so there’s like you know there’s a baby elder there’s enough adult Elder and then Senior Elder and so it’s just we have to learn at each stage of Life how to become the mature version of what that stage is and says just something to think about as well and it’s good to to get your feet wet early on in life so that you know we can have deep roots and and the and those are the kinds of people to like in the Tamara situation out of the black community they have a circle of Elders who are basically people who have grown with a community enough that they know the people in their community and then they serve a role as potential kind of like the Matchmaker but you know in a way where people can approach them in and ask them like you know I’m interested in this person and they can help you assess whether this is the right time or what is a good or bad idea and you know they can kind of that. Whole courtship in a way that you know really I think I wish there were more of those people around here don’t you let me relax you know learn the hard way what does that we’re just not compatible certain people in The Matrix the I mean yeah I’m not I’m not a political scientist of the Matrix but I will say that what got me peaked on the ecstatic trance dance group ritual ceremony festival thing was it really when I saw I think it was maybe the second movie or maybe it was the second or the third but there was a scene where they’re just getting down to like Juno Reactor I think was a soundtrack of a butt there is something beautiful about seeing the different the warrior culture Guided by elders and of course there’s different the archetypes playing out in Conflict split that to me was took it further than then the Star Trek Federation is a futuristic Elder guided Council guided kind of reality so that was kind of fun but yeah so that’s what came to mind when you’re at we’re talking about that be so cool if you’re early sexual oracle’s who you go to you know if we’re going to give you insights and maybe even have name your child for you or something cool like that you know be so cool but right on then will I worry about at the hours so do you have any closing touch you want to share or any other resources or should we just I’ll post the the links that you mention and I’ll definitely encourage people to stay informed and keep an eye out for your anything coming up you have any appearances or anything exciting like that coming up you want to mention I think yeah I think I covered a lot of it and I just wanted to maybe plant a seed while I have the airwaves here about something that I’d I’d eventually like to work on presenting which is around insert Intercultural relationships and also decolonizing our relationships as well and just thinking about how how we can heal some of these ancestral traumas and use that has as as a means to strengthen our relationships and also our society right on I’ll be looking forward to everything that you’re you’re expressing in the world and I hopefully yeah maybe sometime in the future we can talk about skill sets for Beyond Christian monogamy that would be a great topic so yeah how would you feel about that maybe we can sometime in the next few months follow up with something like that. Maybe by the by the time I’ll have more of a personal lived experience to a base conversation around that I think you know in terms of people who are already I don’t know how many listeners here are on a Christian spiritual path without that many but if the energy and gnosticism and sacred marriage not going to the alchemical top in the in the Gnostic tradition but I I wouldn’t make any claims to be an expert in that area but it’s definitely something to look at cool alright then we will be in touch and will follow up sometime in the future and thank you so much so be I really enjoyed it and I know it’s taking us a while to get this to get this done but I think it was perfect and I couldn’t ask for anything more so you have a wonderful day. Take care and keep for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is to see me and if you want a podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at Contra Punk. Com Thomas Day