In this episode I have an invigorating conversation with activist and feminist pornographer Pandora Blake. We discuss the shady politics of repression of sexual expression. While there are many reasons to feel defeated and demoralized in the struggle for sexual and artistic liberation, Pandora provides a lot of strength and hope that a proud, empowered, uncompromising, pornographic revolution will prevail.
Please visit her website at:
Pandora Blake is a feminist pornographer, sex worker and sexual freedom campaigner. Her films have won multiple international awards and her website Dreams of Spanking has survived legal battles against porn censorship in the UK.
Pandora is an active campaigner for sex work decriminalisation and labour rights, obscenity law reform, civil liberties and human rights, particularly relating to freedom of expression, gender, sexuality and privacy. She is official spokesperson for Backlash, which defends freedom of sexual expression among consenting adults in the UK, and organises
alongside the Open Rights Group and the English Collective of Prostitutes. An experienced public speaker, Pandora regularly appears on panels and gives talks and media interviews. She runs a Patreon to support her unpaid activism and political work.
As a sex worker and porn-maker, Pandora works passionately to increase social and legal acceptance of marginalised sexualities, educate the public about kink and BDSM, and reduce stigma and shame. She was awarded Publicist of the Year at the Sexual Freedom Awards 2015 for her efforts advocating for sex workers’ rights and against porn censorship. She is currently working on a book about the politics and psychology of fantasy, particularly the ones we don’t dare admit to in public.
Her pornographic films are story-driven and gender-critical, exploring kinky fantasies via a queer erotic gaze. She is the sole owner and operator of Dreams of Spanking, which launched in 2011, faced government censorship for its unapologetic depiction of consensual BDSM, and successfully appealed against closure by the UK porn regulator in 2016.
Her work has won awards including Best BDSM Scene 2015 at the Feminist Porn Awards, and first prize in the 2015 Short Film Competition at the Berlin Porn Film Festival. Her production ethos is performer-centric, and prioritises transparency, explicit performer consent, and equal pay for equal work.
Pandora writes a blog on kink, porn and politics, and you can follow her on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook.
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved’s welcome to times for fun podcast episode number 109 I am doing an interview with Pandora Blake a sexual freedom campaigner and feminist pornographer in the UK and I’m really excited to go on a journey of expiration of some of the the challenges unique challenges of being a feminist born producer what the the ideology is and some of the obstacles that come up with the law and with people on all spectrums of of politics who have who aren’t yet converted to the beauty of enjoying feminists so that’ll be exciting cuz that’s your Forte so would you would you please Pandora tacos and talk to us a bit about your life path that led up to your playing these roles in the world I mean I didn’t even know it was possible I’m sorry my background is so I can keep them I started kind of expressing myself benign my teens and if a relationship 6 touring BDSM I’ve always appreciated having access to pool and I remember when I was a kid and I knew that was having kinky found assistant couldn’t make sense of them and I had loads of Shame and a new account open in about them and then being able to go online and find some of the phone is being made and kind of be late 90s any notice and realized I wasn’t there any one of the planets you like this stuff it was like it was really a fan positive people have when they grow up into politics and social justice and then yeah when I was an apprentice I was in an abusive relationship and I was talking to my partner about how I really wanted to be in some of the some of the spanking websites I was looking at because that’s one of my biggest things that we were doing together a lot in that relationship and he said but why don’t you you know you could Yorkie enough and you can act and I just had to cut to me that I might be a candidate for the encouragement I kind of found my way to doing some performance various kind of European and UK fetish sites as assets of performer I loved it like love that it was like wait you mean I get to dress up in fancy costumes and do the stuff like a real place I left you a home and I get paid you kidding me and I’m really into kind of seems and my sister just be happy for me so I can buy my own Partners along and do things with them so I wasn’t even having to walk with Strange’s I was going to walk with my Apartments so yeah Lobster up and it was fun doing some of the other guys doing it wasn’t sexy so like for a while I was trying to make it in Austin and yeah and while this was happening I was kind of getting more engaged with all the six educating myself about different things to do with kind of social justice and gender sexuality and gradually coming to this kind of Consciousness that maybe all though I had a great time in the Box I’ve been doing know all of this to you guys. I’ve walked with maybe had the best body of work from a soda gender politics suspected United very few of the produces I’d watchful had any models that one white cisgender skinny women that was no one shooting trans and non-binary people mad very few people even shooting and you know they would be some kind of role plays at times have to say no to cuz I just found a greedy roast like I don’t want to play a wife and her credit card and they when I would have been interesting than that but yeah I did Stephanie to get a sense that maybe some of some of these sentences with maybe coming from Apollo 600 Texas some money even though I was very badly treated badly about experiences and they were with really very small street is a very She & Him most of them because they still driving like you know I mean you have to treat your phone as well to 268 at nine people night and one of the things I identify pretty quickly was I’m bisexual and I like to look like male what is in Boise loss of the pool and I was saying like it was only really focusing on the female body is an object of sexual desire I’m going to stop at the educated myself about feminist pool and I was seeing this pattern repeated you know a lot of feminist poem being lesbian porn and so will. It’s being shocked from a female perspective and come to Italy versus gaze at the lens it doesn’t look any different from being shot from Head Resort from alpha Pack’s if you are still lovingly pining over these 7 in cups and I feel it’s the in order to stop to you really got some balance hey we needed to start shooting mail what is a sexy right so I’ll be sure to happen very produces have been doing this but in spanking those we know one doing it apart from a couple of gay sites to look into it and realize how extreme that kind of straight guy segregation was in the BDSM Community light in the UK unqualified to be like everything to do with find angle with a mint was anything with a female submissive so like GoGo might be included in that that’s not considered to be queer right because straight yet but if you’ve got a male submissive been committed by women by 9 then like male Studios the male bloggers the mail pass you can become aware if you wear Dynamics why I went to a spanking party in America that would be all these guys who would be wearing a dumb batch you know you got bad showing orientation and they be riding with the top bad and then they come up in 5 and they’re going to switch you know why is that secret it’s up to you if they know that you’re you’re a switch and I realize how deep this Prejudice cards you know it’s not Justin Bieber sound like that doesn’t offer a lot of him if I be against bisexual male mainstream Point form is you know if a man works with men and women there a lotof Regal Studios you weren’t hired them yeah yeah it’s it’s such an interesting gray area the whole double penetration no experience cuz he see that’s kind of hard to escape rubbing your penis against another man’s penis and I know yeah well that’s in membrane between the anus and the vagina much protection interesting isn’t so yeah I started to cut a critique a lot of the poem that I was saying and thank well I want to do something about this so she’s hanging in 2009 and I developed this concept of a site that didn’t segregate on the basis of orientation so it had female submission male submission meldonium male Mastiff female female stuff everything will enter one brief I didn’t want to kind of follow this received wisdom that all you’re going to lose your mail straight customers because they called back to see any gay stuff guys I’m sorry that was possible and then yes. About what else I want to do differently so yes she psa’s for sure she trans before missed right from the beginning like when I launched into it a Transformer that’s been the right from the start I’m done discriminate based on body type but he size skin color anything like that and fat as well I was shocked when I discovered in the UK in the BDSM scene on spanking phone scene to be paid asshole yeah even it says something like yeah so is that performing this really quite intense physical Ada Vox but the thing is that they is being sold to them like a free session with a dominatrix so they think they’re getting a good deal they would you think it’s worth that but the Corolla rail I will you get that is that those guys aren’t professionals they probably have a job they can’t show that face so they are in a little something and that just this like inanimate objects in the scene while the women is like posing for the camera and you don’t get any interaction between two contacts of the intimacy and if I’m watching a woman dominating man I want to see you last thing so I want him to be sexy as well I want him to be present when the cameras look at him I don’t want them to be focused on each other not one of them ignoring the other kind of so fat pay was one of the first principle there’s like if I’m going to get good Mouse house and I’m going to need to pay for it and what I discovered was that that was not a BDSM. Mulholland in the UK because no one has previously offered pay and so I was hoping to recruit from light that uses and the fastest team United like my friends like me out in the clubs and stuff and be like yeah it’s kind of given them a bit of a head start yeah and so but pay transparency fact hey they pay men and women the same you know it should you know it’s definitely a lot less cuz you’re not considered equal in the cell then the labor is different you know that your body is being put into a lot more stress you are more likely to experience abrasions like you’re going to be sore after being penetrated like is it hard work and so I do have different pay scales the bottoms and tops receiving a bee sting like a bee come back every day so I do. I do have based on how hot the job is but there’s no difference well this is going to end up being a reality TV show one of the top networks for dirty jobs or toughest jobs in Boston have you got that would be home and let you know the what it’s hot is a lot. No positive it’s cool so I had diarrhea since I went to two different name alone Society in 2011 the thing poster Tracy McCormick rolls like royalty you know I like trying to just reading that in times of working conditions and be ready humble and I can do feedback I like constantly looking to improve my game and Times of being super transparent giving formula to control denied being super chill about light respecting their preferences and not pressuring them requesting them and their experience are you fly like as a priority over the content I was guessing like really going to get basket that way around rather than that we had to get this no matter what it takes and I always say like if you want to know if I don’t ask me on the site right from the start like video you know I need the cameras running when someone calls cops and then you know I did not into the outtakes don’t just have the funny outtakes but like someone close cut how did the conversation that I made you feel good about it you know and show that The View that because of the phone right then Frank should like end of scene interviews you know that can go come to you and it was all like a great happy smiley videos of the end at the end of sheets that I didn’t enjoy and it’s like you’ve not been paid yet you haven’t signed a release yet is another bit of accent do you have to do to kind of be allowed to leave so you’re like yeah I had a great time this is fantastic and it doesn’t really tell you anything where is very smart and if they see the kind of you know you like interactions that happen between takes and just to kind of you know with people leaving around and having a great time that that tells you something and that’s much less likely to be active then someone speaking to the Cameron answering direct questions about like did you have fun music was I had fun you know that what you going to say no you’re not going to do that live on camera in 2011 and is Riyadh what every week with a bunch of sat behind the scenes video Russia flag in for the first year I was going to pay that much but had to do otherwise I might as well but you know like a try to take it seriously. Hyde some assistance. Just three years ago to the point where I was really happy with it I have the traffic I once had I had two cells I once said I could pay all my staff good Wright’s what I’ve been doing since the beginning but when I fast hide stuff I can’t afford to pay myself because I was paying them so I can pay them I like to pay me that there is money left over to pay me and I felt like I was getting so I wait for my work so that would be ideal but then got shot on a minute so you decided to yes. In a way that ultimately Cripple Creek business wow okay so that’s and that’s not this new bill that that was something else and they target you specifically or what what would what exactly was that factor that I just been choosing a whole bunch of new stuff with a colleague likes that stuff kinky sex stuff and we got together with all of us and show it was stuff that we like to do just in time script and it was really cool like really kind of hot rough sex and then like a couple of weeks I said they introduce this new Statue instruments that wasn’t even a parliamentary act like it didn’t get the bass hit it was just like a department pick up magic just produced it without any kind of price a painting that leaves marks kind of erotic choking V sting female ejaculation kind of wanting to do this like documentary showing Aquarius Xbox to the world so the neighbors like now you can still hasn’t been published for this reason and so it was a little bit but the reason all that stuff blessed with that in the UK we have this thing called the British border film classification and they classify films for Cinema release on DVD in 1518 for thoughtful and in the US the same is like 12 15 18 and then there’s this one goes all right team which is the one for like real sex like actual pulling people having sex but just like a sex scene was staged all right pain really doesn’t include much else other than real sex so if anything’s got any fetish material in that it won’t get classified even is already paying a release or dvd release me so it’s like the vanilla standard operating in a relatively kind of free environment and then in 2014 they decided to close that loophole and make it even say that now will the classification guidelines ulcer flights the internet so they already had a list of an old list of activities that wouldn’t have been able to be approved if it was the film where a DVD in that didn’t yet technically have the verbage on the on the books to include internet but that and and what was the Catalyst for that would you say someone is regulations 2014 and it piggybacked off Annie you know about audio visual Media Services of the EU Louis men’s to be about basically it says the online streaming services have to comply with the laws in a local country so it’s like your day was you couldn’t have Netflix showing stuff which like the BBC couldn’t show write it because it was published Ibis he’s still having a plywood details of that was like it was meant kind of competition local National Broadcasting Service why do they put out a business by the Internationals individual EU member states and none of the other countries like did they swear that this is just the UK who would like oh well we could also make sure that you have to comply with the BBC FC classification guidelines 2014 guidelines are based on you and it’s complicated but you know depends on President and so it was decades ago the recent KC Donut Lowell and the story of addicts and men’s velour currently is Health being what you could reasonably be prosecuted and charged with like if someone was recently requested for doing something when you come for the King Soopers doing that thing and they had been a case in 2012 and like I’ve been prosecuted for like selling gay fisting and gave me the assignment watersports DVDs and a jury UK people have seen that and been like know this isn’t it seem like a nice way of saying you know which perspective the right people want to watch it to watch that and say that case President should have meant that those acts would be considered for the PDF see God lines written years before. And I haven’t been updated with the chaos the case law has changed so it’s like wait you’ve got this list it’s like 10 is out of date with the case law and you’re playing at the internet which is like a whole new medium without even thinking that you should maybe bring it up-to-date with the current law in the country of what is considered the same it just seemed really frente read I see you guys you just saying so would that did that affect only UK producers or would that also affect I guess the whole point was for it to filter or to penalize content anywhere sourced from anywhere in the world that was being yeah that was accessible within the UK right so that that put a lot of pressure on another Studios and other websites that were yeah some what question with at least act like I’m like what the what the intention of the original EU law was but I certainly wasn’t intentional for UK interpretation of it yeah and so now moving moving forward to the the digital economy hack that actually would you want to start with or you want to get into that or do you have more to say about your the path of your website that gave us we should know what what how you adapted to that what you’re so basically I was investigated it was really obvious to me that I was the only spankings lights be investigated because I was being so I can talk to my head above the parapet and because I’ve been criticizing Baby Max 2014 website if they found me and breach which of the following must have been part of my family so I have like six months they found me and breach of a bunch of rules that have any content stuff and some other stuff and I have to pay my flight offline by this deadline and that was awesome deadline by which I have to file an appeal if I was going to appeal does running on behind the scenes drafting a pale I had legal help from backlash he would like her Freedom organization and my friend miles Jackman who is the kind of Topics in the UK light help me out with that as well but won’t let the appeal have been sent off the website taken offline I can let you have to just pull the plug and it was like you couldn’t hold of the file we had to break all of your El Paso case anyone have the oral stage light was it saves it was a lot of work and you couldn’t access anything anymore I then just have to sit on my hands for 10 months and wait to hear the results of my pill so for 10 months my websites the thing that I noticed any traffic and when I found out, so I said I’d won my appeal and I could reopen the site I like the business was right back where I’d been at the beginning so it was a moral Victory but in times of light my you know business item best years of my life into and thousands of pounds you know it was a didn’t believe me and if I could place on the one hand I got to publish a whole bunch of content which I thought I was never going to get published the one of the things that really you know when I said it’s offline was like I had a Year’s worth of content already paid for I already saw that could now publish I couldn’t get my money back from everybody but I said I was at risk of just lose the entire day so when I found I could be a pain I was like right yes this is a victory against the sunset going to reopen I’m going to stop publishing this content but I would like to know what I’m not going to published anymore because I feel like it’s quite unstable I’m sure enough like four weeks I got headlight of a tiny window think it’ll feel good about my situation after finding out who won my pill and then if it’s looking to be building table to Parliament for the summer recess I would quit I realize I was going to be like when I forgotten because my pillow lawsuit against me from collections but it didn’t exempt me from a future bills around 1 and I was just going to reassure you that anything could be classifiable whatever me ask you this is this is kind of a strategy that has been employed in in different contexts just to circumvent jurisdictional constraints and I’m just wondering if you would I know it would have been a probably be devastating to your brand to have to do this but given the climate it seems like the talent that you the talent that you’ve cultivated with the skill set to produce this art medium and the network that you have of performers did you ever think about her or do you think now about kind of either producing stuff and then licensing it to other countries or actually going leaving the country to contract with other the other producers or Studios where you could sort of just yet circumvent that that that just occurred last year has been sort of wrapping up the dreams of spanking projects because it would let you know my baby is labor of love is like with pus on the bus to go to buy Graffiti like it was really important to me and I haven’t been given the permission to sort wind up and publish the stuff I’d already shot for it I wanted to do that I wanted to get complete with that but in the future yeah I think like licensing stuff for the produces a definite something I want to do and like what is the director of the higher we oversee Studios exactly something I want to do but for the last chair light Jesus thinking I’ve been updating every week even though it hasn’t been making any money cuz my traffic like with a thought of what it was and sales were really low in my ice like stuff that I’d appreciate her going to other way so I was right back in like sausage made of just be like to have done this once already trying to stop over there if it wasn’t paying my rent so I had to kind of pay the rent and then while the oldest is going on you know I’m doing the time in this I was off-line the conversation around this look on Me Bill and particularly the policy that is really devastating beauty content is a traffic citation becoming mandatory for online phone in the UK and I had some time of educating myself coming a bit of a sort of expert in what is revocation for lane pool and would mean how it was that kind of evidence for and against it kind of like a 10000 watt consultations the government when they kind of opened it for like evidence of missions install and kind of fundraiser to try and get a bit of money back to the community in exchange for the casing on the bus so then when I’m doing physical work I’m painting now and so it was done just this light long slot for like the last year has been trying to run a membership site and sexual acts like on money and also do they just got the kissy all the while knowing that if you know we don’t succeed in all our goals with the fiscal complaining that the site is going to have a future so it’s been a tough time and visual economy Bell is just to make the end of it passes through Parliament I just did a massive update yesterday on the latest amendments and we just had an actual amounts in the UK yesterday’s it looks like it’s going to be rushed really quickly now if it passes a tool sorry it’s going to be play within a couple of weeks going to look like an old wax I’ve been doing for the last year’s to try and buy some bottles around different things they’re going to fax sex while kissing freedom of expression in different ways you know we’re going to find out pretty soon to what extent that paid off what do you think that timelines going to be in pass cuz I ask for the election okay well so it’s a big deal is there anything people can do now is there any kind of call to action to put pressure on anyone in the and the government to I mean I’m just curious what kind of rallying is happening around it especially now that seems like it’s kind of an Abrupt end on Friday which is really saying and some of the Amendments that we’ve managed to get through in the House of Lords about example the we managed to get the clothes about the B-52 have the content removed in the bell and replaced with just saying you couldn’t have any pool in the country illegally extreme pool which is a really narrow definition that most of his life that’s reality and animals and it just comes to me like to drape so that could cover consensual BDSM and serious injuries to a Nespresso genitals which could come a confederal BDSM but that’s a much smaller list of stuff is not allowed so you can basically say that you single-handedly or you and your your network of sexual Freedom campaigners basically protected the legal right to do fish sitting right on the Internet is supposed to be like to be reactive on this but yeah I mean I kind of thing after I’ve listened like 7 evidence submission and I’ve seen some of that weddings. To come up in the debates I think it has submitted a small difference which is nice feeling like it better than it will be for nothing amendment is now up for criticism on Friday and Dez Losa Christian anti-gay organizations were going to oppose the amendment so all of this work is like Bixby does Master Chief risk being undone on Friday only women know how to please other women and it makes them jealous is that what they’re felt it’s really it’s really pathetic and in that’s absurd is staying in on falak E Noor to the Safeway to have sex like if you don’t mind where to buy HIV rash kiwi good for them to learn about and realized that kind of on the menu because it’s much less risk of like guys in pregnancy so yeah I mean a lot of love by the Creek community and so it doesn’t surprise me that a Christian organization cat cold that have funds to conferences which promoted a confession comes like he’s going to be able to bring back that you can’t have this thing that does not surprise me at all but yeah sorry we need to write to arm piece I guess I’m trying to find someone and ask him is when I stand up and say no I think this amendment is good thing but it’s very hard to find parliamentarians willing to back by the poker face even consensual bond that pullover fee well it’s interesting cuz you can I mean I have a different I have a diverse array of perspectives on all this stuff but it certainly is a double standard to allow for especially having just the amount of violent acts the murder and in gun violence and everything that you would see on any mainstream all the video games all of the TV shows you know anything goes for all that kind of violence and then if there’s one drop of pleasure mix with the violence it becomes satanic and their minds in a sectional couch with her that I think I sterilized you know it’s hard as hell to difference. Ended light because Game of Thrones is officially end time it made it or not pornographic they can show you like beatings and right lower the stacks but the moment you have that on a website that’s intended to arouse suddenly that becomes an acceptable it’s like WellPoint is entertainment and there’s nothing wrong with getting aroused by something that doesn’t mean you can donate it just means that you’re having a reaction that seems like a really is so wouldn’t in any of the debate around for mixed content of these things that I could be a fantasy role-play pretends they assume the oil be a time is like a recording of domestic violence like that’s how they took it okay that I cared so that’s the Lacerta linchpin of the argument so it was is there some clear distinction legally between I’m basically based on what you just said that that the free sample of Game of Thrones being permissible but other forms not is it because it’s a certain production value of the studio over because they have better lawyers are going to have to win that it’s meant to be like if the whack it’s only a prince play produced the purpose of sexual arousal what is the head seems like you know there’s other legal standards where you would have to just for a lot of things they would say if x if x percentage of the time duration of a unit of media is going to be so does that mean you just have to have more dialogue and then it becomes narrative but because it’s on his website that calls itself a pool inside I don’t know I think the double-sided is very hard to defend I’m not interested in trying to defend it like I think I’d like to make sure you’re not there you go that’s a good way to look at it and we should just be great paying sexual content will wonder if you could if you start calling at anthropological ethnography and protected as part of the academic freedom to the government over the ivms she successfully one herpe on the basis that was a feminist article for Jax because I saw it was about you know punishing men with the patriarchy subscribe to the rhetoric in order to have a right to sex while cuz you know we won’t be one is fed as I expected to be listen to four agencies be respected so I can send to be on it and rice. Dismissed is irrelevant and we want that to play the old tax records because it’s the people who’d wouldn’t know how to use the language if maybe most need those rights right yeah this is well with them we need more academic feminist to get in the game and start to help with the lawmaking and counter legislation and you know what some feminist Alliance beside right with all of these laws are coming from Auntie’s Xbox feminism like the denial letters I just don’t really care but it’s the women who think the old poem is degrading will put his violent with X back is traffic hanging who advocated a slight passionately time time again and the guy at the mail at least he’s getting viruses going with it maybe you’re right and there’s no strong female voice being like sex like is why we have the right to consent to what we do without anybody’s you know if you have a problem with Colossus Xbox challenge policy don’t tell him if I can go through mechanisms and sex is not shameful we can have a sexy want to have yeah I know what could be more of a not only harm reduction but also just a radical feminist paradigm shift to say that hey if you want to if you don’t want to work for the man and you and you choose to be a sex worker you can make more money and have better pay and better working conditions to make queer porn with female feminist porn producers then having being pimped out made my decision is this black but in the meantime you know a little put up because of trying to do our own weapon conditions come painting and set some standards in a community standards but then it really would like a recognition well yeah this is this is again just feeling that it would be great to hopefully for the people who were invested in this to to do more Outreach to get to more traditional feminist organizations to support this. The debate you know I think that’s a really valuable things to do right to your female legislators try and get them on the side and rib pain from festivals that has so many now and they show such radical be used for Creative Innovative intimate films to find employment Hub and realize how many possibilities there is River City media to be truly gorgeous and human unpack your phone if you care about this then you can just leave each of the three sites which you know you’re exploiting fullness and take you back in a few industry you needs to put money where your mouth is and guy said the Indy produces who is making the ethical stuff and support them very beautiful yeah I’m so there with you I’m glad I’m glad we got to put out some some call to actions and I likes to say that if everybody follow me on Facebook and I said $1 each a month then I can go full-time and knocks the best waxes people can chip in $1 at $5 a month whatever they think they can afford it all adds up because I’m is distributed is chameleons have one person cancel the subscription and still supported by a nice time to the people and I every other guy pays for the day of my time so it labels me to take time off from having to do paint watch in order to do that was important to me right on you know what that makes me wonder are you do you listen to Susie Q and the horror cast yeah I’ve have you considered asking her to be a guest on the show I’m sure she would love to promote your efforts yeah please do I just been binge listening I’ve caught up on almost all of the episodes of the last several years and I feel that she absolutely is the the superhero in of the sex work industry and now she’s playing a very powerful important role in the Free Speech Coalition professionally so I think we’re going to see the changes that were talking about the Coalition building and the bridge building a between the camps of feminism and certainly there’s just so much more in my opinion I’m seeing that the the political climate if you will in the United States is is bringing people together in a new way so it’s this is the time this is a like a window of opportunity to really steal those collisions because people now steal the threats that the intersectionality of feminism is now turning into a a major pile-up it’s such a disaster this situation is is going to get people out of their bubbles you know big time and then if I back. It’s so depressing I mean we have to go in there so fast is happening people like why do I need to leave the country and I was like no I shouldn’t have to use my homie. I’m hardly ever Miss hanako family cuz I know it’s like well maybe we could all leave myself oh yeah you got to establish the Island of Lesbos to serve Renaissance an actual nation of of queer feminist pornographers maybe get a get a ship in and be an international waters you know I just get a cruise ship and bring all the the queerdos together and you know outside of international waters Irving outside of any national boundary so that she could be a and we’re actually hosting a new camp this year is no way which is the white Regional bun you know you like the bunny man they have like yeah end of the count that we’re coasting it is cooled re acuerdo say we’re going to be doing a bit and create a kind of Oasis Of Love. well right on well yeah I would say you know it is the Free Speech Coalition cover is covering all of these important legal challenges facing the entire adult industry and so I would definitely say that you probably I Don’t Need No it’s it’s I will be a good a good move to yes so we’ve got a few minutes left here to to talk about I like I said like to it’s kind of a in a warm down a bit from that the intensity is building up you know and and just talk a little bit about well how about a bit about how we can Empower people to 2 BND pornographers because the more people are out there doing their you know becoming joining the movement artistically the more the more space there will be and then the more constituents there will be two to vote for the stuff Southeast us and I am feeling poets by the Sea get you something but yeah I mean in cameras and lights you can be youtiful cinematic stuff on an iPhone and not show light I’ve seen phone screen to point festivals that are showing in iPhone I mean you have to be a nerd right you know I mean something that is itself you have to be comfortable with software willing to install stuff and read documentation and teach yourself how to use it but if you ever fooled around in Photoshop then you’ll be able to pick up Adobe Premiere Pro Final Cut pretty easily like if you have any visual graphic artists sang or if you’ve ever used like oh. C o n e o d i just like you know it’s just one extra Dimension from that so if you’re the sort of person he’s fooled around of the computer making stuff before then you’ll find pool in quite easy today I’m self-taught like I never learned how to do video editing for anyone else yeah I said that you had definitely the the technology is more accessible and it only gather the entry-level the barrier to entry with the technology is almost non-existent sick the power is in everyone’s pocket is indeed I you just need to have an internet connection and it helps if you’re a bit of an Internet resident you know like if you spend a lot of time on social media already you know how that works cuz I mean in deep one of his rely on social media to get Silas is do the marketing and see if you’re coming to the house without you knowing that you could help us and he’s like an offline person I think you might struggle to get of you is if you already like live on Twitter and I’m glad that you will do fine right well that’s okay so that’s that’s a some good point of questions there is it a I am very cautious about breaking United States federal laws and being in compliance with all these complex layers of legalese that you you know really it’s it comes down to a lot of it is a form of digital entrapment really if you produce content you know and if you don’t have even if you do have a really high and lawyer there’s a lot of moving targets and there’s a lot of vague language and in the laws and then now there’s a there’s States within the us that are starting to take actions similar to what you’re you’re dealing with were there would be a major game-changing requirements to you know you can’t just put something up on the web because if it’s at all accessible that one yeah which was which was luckily I brought down but there’s there’s there’s new stuff coming up that similar that would be making it so that you would have to you would have to have a huge budget to hand code or to create custom code there’s no one has like a module that meets the specifications of these new laws that could you just plug in your your WordPress module and it complies instantaneously with whatever is happening that’s a long way off so it’s going to be no so I guess the question is really what do you it’s a different landscape obviously legally and inflict and what not but just even the ethical stuff about age verification and and being able to show the world that porn producers ethically minded feminist minded are are doing their best to keep content out of the eyeballs of minors and obviously be compliant with doing good record-keeping and verifying the age of performers in 1 hour to rationalize even if you’re working with your love is new friends new probably all going to be like exchange paperwork at Contract Heidi Schultz keep records if you use the big kind of video on mine sites like hipster style then they’ll handle all of the legal stuff for you so you aren’t I mean for the content stuff in the UK like people investigated Patient First on Pocket Edition economy growth rings in HB Navy requirements to and it’s very hard for small produced to Ford cuz you have to pay per visit at your side and most people don’t want to send her style of the traffic that’s how it’s going to work okay well I got it I just want to zoom in on that for a second so there are they creating a a registry where you the traffic to your website each person would have to go through their sort of a guy or just be interested in chasing profit know it’s going to be free market they’ve got a whole bunch of like private companies who’ve already developed IV solution for the Navy stations on Mickey lights there’s nothing to make sure that they respect you as a courtesy what time would I need to take a database if you know it will the sites that use of his looks hadn’t what they paid for and then like as high as well. They ceballos like my name so yes you’re going to be liable to make sure they’re not going to take that’s the other quote you know if a hacking is the biggest give me the Ashley Madison one resulted in suicide mindgeek Padres have to breach so yeah it’s very worrying and then you know style produces being penalized at once recognized by the cost of this another ones were being regulated by government was just saying we’ve written an IV solution you need to use it it’s free will be like well okay cool but instead I have to force my site visitors to use in Secure Solutions organized like everything I have to pee like 10 times more than I’m currently running an income from sales on doing that like no thank you what is the the are you from so I’m I’m I’m not as educated about this is is say probably eventually will be as I continue to produce content but I have been using the strategy that that you kind of mention which would be to Outsource the legal liability to web platforms that are establishing that do have all of that third-party record-keeping options you click a box in the I do webcamming to so anyone who’s a cam performer will it it to an extent I mean there’s any anybody could come under scrutiny technically in certain ways but for the most part you know it’s it’s well it’s the whole webcamming thing basically is a gray area that doesn’t have its its operating in a massive from anyway yeah and then I guess the question I have is said the around the. XXX domain standard and I feel like there’s this is very vague to me now but I I just feel like what this could eventually evolve to if the if the the big players in the industry they might have to become somewhat socialistic or so much communistic and in a sense of well maybe the thing to do is to create that top-level XXX domain space or something like that where the porn all of the porn that’s produced in the world is is somehow survived from a sector of the internet that is kind of a centralized is that scary but in a way I feel like the the international coalitions of adult content producers could probably you know I guess make a sort of the same concept of an insurance the way Insurance works time to do this in two minutes to take to conceive after so much, you know like an old poem is on XXX XXX are made by the way let you know how much they cost expensive things like 10 times more than adult cam XXX like me needs one pressing the button for an individual countries just like we just got to find it you know that pain is much more than what if it has to be said everything has it all over the place and I don’t want that segregation light but you’re right that we do need International standards the idea of local government imposing local censorship and going to bring an ISP blocking besides that don’t comply with the various roles that introduces of the government is just going to stop buying porn sites that it doesn’t like from being viewed it in the UK a tool you know light in the same way that China and Saudi Arabia and Iran control that internet like I thought we might be a free country so I just think that we need to start developing resilience Solutions a distribution enough to resist that kind of effort United everybody needs to be using a VPN for stars I’m quite interested in Kind of Night by posting like as not going to accept Bitcoin and things about him being with Lion on like the Visa and MasterCard regulations is it was a logical person to ship that controls pool and we kind of con Sal like these are muscadine except I need money for any files of videos that increase blood stop music on have any menstrual pain Eva where is if we start to kind of Branch out and when not putting all your eggs in one basket let me know it’s hosty relying on any individual platform will not tell Siri that an individual billing provider we not talk to anyone TLC but we kind of spreading out then we’re going to be able to weather the storm a lot better yeah well I always think about to get blockchain I don’t know it’s so do you know much about that or no I’m not an expert on bitcoin a total is so stupid, like I said we have to have it running well it’s it’s cute it’s not it’s very scalable system it seems to me and hope that we can get you plenty of funding to continue with all the great work you’re doing and I would love to see you connect with the FSC the Free Speech Coalition because I think you would be a great asset to their efforts and they would they would probably fight together I mean before Millions is like you said That’s the Way Forward show all right all right well yeah let’s you go for for the David thank you so much Pandora I learned so much and that will definitely be in touch and good luck with everything when shaving it when it’s out alright thanks take care thank you for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temples every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at Township Park. 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