Tag Archives: sexology

Decolonizing Love and Sex with Dr. Zelaika Hepworth Clarke TPP216


Zelaika Pic

In this episode I’m joined again by one of my favorite scholars for a deep and intense exploration of oppression and decolonization in the realms of love and sex.

She shares her theory of the “Z-spot” which is all about the multi-dimensional nature of female arousal beyond physical stimulation of anatomical spots.

We commiserate on the state of patriarchal dominance of sexual home economics and brainstorm on future pathways towards sexual utopias that are inclusive of all genders, sexualities, ethnicities, while preserving and honoring diversity, legacies of privilege and trauma, and much more.

Please visit her website here:

Positive Sexuality Research, Education, and Outreach with Emily Prior MA TPP107


Emily Prior picIn this episode I’m am joined by the highly accomplished sexuality educator Emily Prior. MA. We discuss a wide array of topics within and beyond the sex positive movement and field of study. She provides insightful guidance and direction on independent research and best practices for aspiring positive sexuality educators.

About Emily E. Prior, MA:

Executive Director/Founder/Co-Editor-in-Chief Journal of Positive Sexuality

Emily E. Prior is the Executive Director for the Center for Positive Sexuality. Since 1996 she has been teaching formal and informal classes about a variety of sexuality-related topics including BDSM lifestyle, Polyamory lifestyle, Gender, Introductory and Advanced Human Sexuality Courses for Psychology and Sociology departments at universities, Teen Sexuality topics for Planned Parenthood Los Angeles and others. Emily has studied human sexuality and gender topics from a variety of perspectives, including Psychology, Sociology, and Anthropology and won the Vern Bullough Award for research. She is a member of The Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, American Sociological Association, Pacific Sociological Association , Community-Academic Consortium for Research of Alternative Sexualities (of which she is on the Research Advisory Committee), Los Angeles Sexologists Associates, and Phi Kappa Phi. To contact Emily, please email emily@positivesexuality.org


AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin pillow their beloveds welcome to Township Punk podcast number 107 I’m on Skype with Emily prior she is the executive director of the center for positive sexuality and la and I am very interested in the people who were working and organizations to further sexuality education and holistic sexual health and just all of the important dimensions of growth and development and progress Progressive sexuality if you will and so I’m excited to hear from you Emily what led you and your life path to play the roles that you do now and if you could definitely tell us about the center and the work that you do there and what it’s all about that be a blessing i I guess starts quite a while ago I decided to go back to school and finish my undergraduate degree and then move on to a graduate degree and somewhere in there I decided that human sexuality was definitely the thing that I wanted to study and that this was sort of where I fit and that this worked for me and there are lots of other things that led up to that of course but as far as the development of the centers concerned that really started then as I was working towards my own education and realizing just how much information was not out there and how much misinformation was out there about a variety of sexual identities and just seeing a huge gaps especially among professionals like medical professionals and therapists and things who I felt should know better and should have this information and knowledge and they just didn’t so that’s really I think what drove me is recognizing that people needed much more information than they were being given do you have just have the top of your head some of the material that you felt most moved to want to educate people and enlightening about topic of Interest was on BDSM so really wanting to explore not only the topic but recognizing that at least from my interactions in the people that I knew and seen in Los Angeles recognizing that this was not something that was psychological this is not a psych disorder this was not but you know a medical condition this wasn’t something that was negative for people but that somehow this perpetuation of it being negative was continuing and continuing continuing and that really needed to change it was really painful to see friends and family members go to therapist and go to Physicians and just not be taken seriously or not be heard and so that was really my first Passion was trying to change how people felt about BDSM and how people thought about it that dovetailed into also talking about polyamory successful non-monogamy and that dovetail dindu sort of the breaking down the myths and misconceptions around sex work and it just continues to snowball. Seems like it said there’s these gateways for sure and so how what would you say you’re so helpful changes that have occurred thanks to your efforts and efforts of the center and just two people at large kind of hacking away at these old myths and legends about sexuality they don’t service I’ve seen huge differences so easily almost 20 years ago when I started down this path of sort of informal education and then we’re formalizing that around these topics at that time when you told a group of college students look people who do this aren’t bad or weird or whatever this is just who they are and and at that time there was a lot of pushback there was a lot more people who like no no no they must have all been abused or they must have had some traumatic event occur or it must be something wrong with that it can’t be normal and now 18 20 years later now most of my students are saying yeah got that how do I do it so there’s been a huge shift over those two decades in just people’s perceptions well it’s so how do you what what is catalyzed at do you think or what are some of the key factors that just more of the internet obviously people having access to discover like my folks that want to play and do you know consensual a huge part of that and I think most of it’s been for the better obviously the internet has its downfalls as well but I think it’s really really help to bring all of these things to lighten to help people find connections with people and I mean in Los Angeles it’s a little easier to find like-minded folks no matter how out there you are but when you’re in the middle of the country somewhere in that might be your only Lifeline it might be your only way to reach people who could be hundreds or thousands of miles away from you that that may connect with you know that part of yourself so I think that that’s made a huge difference I think another part of it has been in the past 10 years easily the academic research on these topics has really shifted considerably and I think that’s now starting to filter into the general public where academics are reaching Physicians and therapists and and other professionals at 11 that I think is now starting to affect their interactions with the everyday person and I think media media has done a big shift and I mean you know they’re still so sensationalism and there are still some objectification and exploitation I think in some forms of media but generally media is treating these topics a little bit less salaciously a little bit more positively cool and you are talked about the the history and development a bit of the center and what time you guys were you all provide there and years ago so we’re celebrating our 10-year anniversary this year and that’s really fantastic we’ve been an official 501 c 3 nonprofit since 2013 so that were coming up on getting closer to 5 years of that but we’ve always worked as a non-profit it’s just that’s as long as we’ve been official and really our goals are to provide Education and Research on sexual and gender diversity is brought an army ants as possible the history of that came from myself and a few other local community members in Los Angeles who were doing some presentations through another organization out at colleges universities in the area it was only on BDSM and I was sort of the coordinator for these at the time and recognized that the group of us that we’re doing this didn’t seem to be inclusive enough of the larger SM communities in Los Angeles cuz there’s a whole lot going on here and we’re in a great City and that the local communities really talk to each other and communicate things to each other and this really isn’t happening in any other city so hear the gay leather community and the federal community in the pansexual community and and the high protocol Master Slave community and all of these other things really coordinate with each other or at least aware of each other and talk to each other in La that doesn’t that’s not happening in any other city that I’m aware of and so I wanted a better representation of people so we ended up can I bring in people from other organizations and being a part of that and then because of the questions we were being asked by students every conversation and then we start talking about BDSM but we realized that now that they had people in front of them who were willing to talk openly about sex they had questions about everything and I realize that we really needed to be able to talk about a lot more topics than just us M so we branched off and created the center and started to expand the topics that we were talking about so our education programs have been going on for 10 years now and we’ve gone from presenting to maybe two or three colleges at a time like in a semester maybe a couple of hundred students here they are now we’re speaking too easily more than a dozen colleges every semester and more than a my students every semester but that’s really expanded quite a lot well I so what are ya what are some of the titles of the talks or the workshops that you’re giving off talk about polyamory and consensual non-monogamy we talk about sex workers we talked about sex and disabilities who talked about sex and aging now we’re starting to put some new programs together doing a complete lecture presentation on the dimensions of positive sexuality putting one together on a paper that some of us have co-authored on the four C’s talking about consent in communication and caring and caution as the means of interacting and relationships so yeah we have a lot of different topics cool saying that in that span of time you you probably been in a good position to kind of survey but maybe even very formally but at least informally survey shifts in attitudes and obviously this opening up of more curiosity and interest in it’s more of an open-ended conversation now for sure and are you seeing this is something I’ve noticed I’m curious you probably have better either either or both anecdotal or you know real good statistical data on younger people kind of coming out of the box so to speak way more gender-fluid and polyamorous just by Nature almost feels like there’s some force of nature phenomenon that’s kind of bucking the old paradigms without a lot of really focused deconditioning or or even really highly Advanced you know informational training programs are just kind of getting it there just kind of more free and open and and generous sexually is that is that accurate it needs to be researched but I definitely feel like the younger Generations are so much more open and Ender really looking at these topics and saying you know why are we even talking about this don’t we just get it this is just who we are like we’re fluid in our gender more fluid in her sexuality more fluid in a relationship gone and I don’t know if that more knowledge I don’t know if that’s more a better sense of security I don’t know if that’s a push against you know structure and and parents and Society you know of that rebellion and I think she were now seeing a very clear seconds and maybe 3rd generation of open kinky poly fluid people who grew up with parents who were the openly that way and it’s just it like they’re going out this is not a thing this is just how I grew up seeing more of that too that’s so cool cuz I feel like I’ve had this the saying this is what it looks like when it when a religion dies you know if it if it were another thing I’ve ever actually country singer who was going to call and say that if if you don’t if if a culture stops walking a path in the forest that say they’re Village your culture they stop walking a path in the forest within a generation to pass disappears forever heck of a good or bad if the path was shaming people about their sexual diversity so it’s refreshing to see even on dating websites I feel like I’m witnessing there’s is Pyramid of the older the brackets of decades and age you get the more clamp down and close. You could say it’s old-fashioned to be monogamous people are defining it in so many different ways and I really try to stress to people you don’t like you can be monogamous but make sure that you were definition of that matches your partners definition cuz a lot of people see that in a lot of different ways so are you are there resources or Workshop specifically around how to deal with them some of the challenges of opening up relationships or if coming out kinky or I guess that’s that’s a lot of what you do what you do is kind of provide people resources for exploration and it’s safe here are some of the local things around Los Angeles and it is just a handful of the meaning of the bazillion things and hear some books you might want to read hear some academic resources you might want to reference who hears would have been a ray of a resource material for you and we also on our website we have sexuality Resource page. Just has tons and tons and tons of links you all sorts of things on son of some of them are sex positive therapists or counselors or physician some of them are other resource things were educational materials or websites or you know just all kinds of things cool so how about it are you getting a lot of interest from sexuality Educators either in the school the standard curriculum school system or maybe Charter Schools or private schools are homeschooling parents or is there any feedback and program development on that sort of dimension of Education time we’ve not really breached into dealing with people who are under 18 so we’ve specifically hit college students because then we don’t need parental permission we haven’t yet breached the the under age group especially because of the topics that were we’ve been covering and although it is obviously people at 14 15 16 know that they’re kinky your know that they’re not monogamous they know these things and have an inkling of what they’re interested in or what they want to pursue but I think that’s a really difficult topic to get parents and teachers behind to get the school system behind I’m hoping that since California has recently added the lgbtq studies portion to their overall curriculum for Public School Systems I’m hoping that that will allow us to Branch into that Arena at some point as they need to start incorporating the history of gays and lesbians and queer people into everyday schooling and hopefully on the tale of that can come talking about some of these other topics as well that’s cool yeah I remember I mean I said I was as a youth in the feels a little more than just queer or the list of acronyms but as a Teenage cuerdo I remember you know using or accessing you know homeless youth resources when I was on the street and and there was a kind of bypassed the whole standard anything as pretty much an alternative reality but there was an Ambience of sexual freedom and autonomy in a lot if you know sex work was happening and there were a lot of the staff for the drop-in centers would be College they be doing internships and what not Inn in now that I’m now that I’m getting more that I’m getting older and I’m realizing how they must have been really a pioneering or maybe taking a lot of rain Steven have any kind of conversation of any sexual contact whatsoever and I don’t know what kind of training they were getting to protect them from I mean do you have any reference material for that four four what is what are the boundaries that adult Professionals in sexuality education field or supposed to maintain if they ever I don’t even know who I’m getting emails from, but I don’t I don’t want to respond to an email with a link to an instructional video that’s pornographic you know what I mean without age verifying that I’m talking to an adult I mean I don’t know whose you know what lawyers are making best practices info sheets for stuff like that so I’m curious but maybe you would have some some inside around. chat with Planned Parenthood and I and I was a sex educator with Planned Parenthood for several years and we went into high schools public high schools throughout Los Angeles to do basic training and because I was working with Planned Parenthood because I was a sex educator and now because I’m a professor and teach sexuality courses at the college and university level like I’m a required reporter so so abused to me report something like that I am required to make a special report of that so I try to tell students ahead of time look I’m required by law to make these reports so don’t tell me things that you don’t want reported you know if there’s a case of sexual harassment a sexual assault or anything like that I’m a required reporter and so many people who are trained in those sorts of facilities are at least at that level legally responsible and I’m not sure exactly what the other sort of legal standards might be around those I think it would depend on a specific job so I know that there are some things like if you’re a counselor or therapist you may have certain obligations legally either to protect the people that you interact with daily your clients or again you might be legally required to report certain things to the authorities but beyond that I don’t really know okay yeah it’s definitely something to I’ll be maybe I will get together some resources on that and I’ll share it with you if I can eventually have some kind of you know once you done that so cuz now with the social media internet and I just don’t there’s so many laws that are unenforceable given the landscape of social media and that’s a huge kind of can of worms and so I certainly want to be on the up-and-up and Advising people to do the same so I mean there’s a whole thing about the miners are sending nude photos back and forth to each other during their sexting than there’s a hole you know major concern with that if you were a school teacher and you have and you intervene in some you think they’re passing notes that used to be just hey are you passing notes but if you grab that phone and you see something you know all hell could break loose for everybody so teaching people who were under the age of 18 and they’re passing these photos while that’s considered child pronography distribution of child pronography and some schools are handling that very very strict late so some schools are actually prosecuting attorney at least you know at least kind of telling on those students and letting the District Attorney’s deal with it it’s kind of you know I mean I tell my students we didn’t have these things when I was a teenager but that’s not doesn’t mean we didn’t send dirty pictures to each other material back and forth we had Polaroid’s and we could draw and like it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen but I don’t think it was handled in quite the same way and it certainly not as quick and easy as it is now certainly not with the best camera quality but I’m not sure I’m not sure that we should be handling it and quite the strict manner that we are all the time I think it needs to be a case-by-case basis where is certainly different if you know if they have some form of if it’s consensual rated mean if the event that would be the basis to determine whether or not somebody was spamming someone with nude pictures of the form of sexual harassment and that can be proven that there the intent was there and did their page so now we have to fill out some kind of release form that the school provides a child to receive dirty pictures from another child is of age cuz that isn’t that part of the California’s within three years this is important because people don’t know what they don’t know about how they could be viable all the time for all kinds of things that they don’t even think about stuff tell my Steven my college-age students like you want to be very very careful about this because it’s within it’s the state of California guidelines as it’s within 3 years if you are 17 and under but that don’t that starts at like 12 so you know like between an 8 year old and 11 year old or 12 year old not specs not going to hold like that’s not going to be acceptable it has to start with the age of 12 and going up you can’t backtrack it’s so if the person younger than 12 it’s still really really illegal and and not going to work in your favor but 12r kind of looking okay so if you’re 12 in the person you’re interested in a little bit older than maybe but you need to be careful with that and I think the big problem comes in is when we have people around the cusp so you have somebody’s 15 16 17 to date someone and they they turn 18 you know the other partner turns 18 and now what so now you’re not supposed to be in this relationship any longer and now all of a sudden you cannot consent to this relationship I don’t know I feel like there’s a I understand the laws and I understand the reasons for it I think it’s great to protect people but I also think we don’t give teens credit for being actual sexual persons who could make choices for themselves yeah I was certainly with a lot of older women when I was under 18 so that would have I would have been upset and sad if anyone tried to step in and on that but it’s gendered announcer complicated certainly you I don’t know I guess in my area would have been that just as a rule of thumb male sexual energy was just kind of demonised is being Territorial. And now it’s like a lesbian couple it’s a female identified female body young women who were yeah it’s a different just tell me a different Dynamic so who knows where it’ll lead at this point but at least the center for positive sexuality is here to have these conversations and do you have do you have do you want to talk about a bit about what your your passion is as an educator in the professor like what are you do you have any research that you’re doing your Department’s or you kind of thumb yeah like kind of locking into a specific topics that interest you amongst all these things I mean most of my work still centers around sexuality and I usually teach introductory an advanced human sexuality courses I also teach other classes so I teach mainly in sociology departments so you know I teach about society and culture and people but I really like teaching about deviance and we research on deviance and identity and and all that kind of stuff so a lot of my research is about BDSM is about sex work is about feminist pornography is a kinds of fun stuff I’m presenting at a conference next month on a paper that came out about a year ago and the Journal of sex medicine my colleagues and I did a study on looking at BDSM as a Leisure activity so if we can say fine it’s not pathology let’s stop talking about it that way so okay then what is it and we thought well maybe it’s fits Leisure and if we look at leisure as not just a Pastime but as something that you identify with something that makes you feel whole makes you feel fulfilled is something that you choose to do then then I think it can fit into that category so that’s one of the big one of the big research projects I worked on very recently that’s awesome you have to make it makes me think that if I were to have to explain anthropologically or take that sort of the view of being an alien trying to understand what people are doing her I would kind of say well when when kids are pre-pubescent they make believe and they create epic worlds of Adventure and fantasy role-play and then when people come of age you become adults and they realize that they have these new toys that develop then they want to use them and actually be imaginative and creative in and use their whole potential of their erogenous imagination and their new toys and then they can actually play freely with each other where you know when when kids are playing playing games that you would consider to be somewhat violent and nature they don’t usually actually harm or kill each other you know so it’s not that hard it’s not that great of a leap of logic right to imagine that adults would reaxis some of that imaginary fun making instincts or hate American culture as we really look down on Leisure we would look down on play and we look down on make-believe and so we decide that’s just for children and it’s not for grown ups and I think that that’s a really horrible horrible perspectives of the world cuz you’re only a child for a very very brief point of your life and you’re an adult for a really really long part of your life and wouldn’t I don’t want to stop playing. Why would you want to grow up ever and so yeah I think of BDSM I think erotic play I feel like yeah it’s just this extension of your creativity and artistic and Tristan and your means of expressing yourself and now you get to have sex so why wouldn’t you add that and everything else thank you for helping to frame it that way cuz that it’s it’s so it’s easier to digest when you when I just have never heard that what that phrase before but it just erotic play being obviously it means that you could incorporate more than just your one monogamous married partner that’s just still only allowed that culturally they by the mainstream the idea of being sexually playful with a group of people in the community of people as a social activity like a cocktail party or a mixer or I mean why can’t you believe make break into play make-believe you know the okay fine I just I’m this is my partner this is the only person I’m going to have sex with her I’m going to be in love with or however you’re defining that but I can pretend for the next hour or two that there’s someone I’ve never met before or that there a superhero or that a magical being or whatever and that can really shift your erotic interest in your erotic pleasure I think you probably would be able to say that it will make a lot of relationships last longer and be more Pap more healthier happier for sustainable resilient cuz you’re not getting bored and giving up and going you know stoic that’s great so do you have a key tell it tell me more about the center and how it how it runs and functions is it kind of like a drop-in center or do you have only certain events at certain times or how does the facility time work out we don’t actually have a physical location most of it exists inside my laptop and out of and that means we don’t have to pay for rent so that’s why we go to where we need to go so you know we have regular meetings happen in my house or one of the other board members houses we do have some events here and there are a lot of our fundraisers or just online to make it easier to reach as many people as possible and of course we’re trying to reach a broader audience than just Los Angeles so we Skype workshops we Skype things we’ve talked to classes in New York and classes in Idaho and you know all over the place so you know we do a lot of different things we also have an academic Journal that you’re positive sexuality it’s free it’s open access anyone is welcome to use it and read it and submit work to it and you know that’s been going we’re now in our third year of publication of that and that is hitting a worldwide audience some of the countries that are accessing this are it’s all over in Australia and in Belgium and in various parts of the UK and it’s hitting parts of Asia Japan so it’s really really great so we have a very wide reach and what we do we have approximately 50 to 60 volunteers who work with us we also have an internship program so we get college students who want internship credits or what the work experience and so they volunteer for a specific. Of time and work on specific projects for us at different times of the year we get most of our interns during the summer but we get interns year-round and we have in our volunteers so we have Educators we have people who are research Affiliates and who published research and use the center is one of their professional affiliations we have research assistants who helped them we do you work with events so we do some Outreach events I think on Wednesday we’re going to UCLA sextravaganza which is been happening for several years on UCLA’s campus that we usually set up a booth are we do that with other things around town we’ve also have members some of our volunteers go to conferences all over the world and represent us at different places and in different areas where they were very popular in Melbourne just found out from a friend who’s been living in Australia for past couple years so I can’t I guess we’ll have to go there at some point cool it’s a new cloud-based model it’s elegant and overhead in the neighborhood drama and that there’s a lot of reasons to transcend that six location and you can if you can be a mobile you know unit then you can just take your your your laptop and projector and some you know what your handouts or whatever you have in this b a and again because true using Skype and using other types of internet programs you know we can get into a classroom you know that might not be able to bring us there physically but we can still do it will set it up on our end and and just stream live stream wherever we need to be and and it’s very helpful to cuz we so we have volunteers I think are farthest away volunteer that we’ve had so far was in Trinidad so we can have volunteers from anywhere in the world who can work with us medication programs and so they help us Creator update or education resources in our reference materials and putting together things to help teachers facilitate this in their classes they might actually be one of our Educators we train people to go out to those classes and to give presentations to places we have research assistants to make come in with a certain amount of background knowledge and how to do academic research and some come in just wanted to learn it and so we trained them and they work with people who are doing research in various aspects of positive sexuality and so some of them get to co-author papers and some of them get to work on the ground floor of research happening and get to really get into what that is and have a voice and have an influence in what’s being done in the academic world and this is course then starts to affect policy when we’re putting scientific research in front of people and saying here this is what the says that’s not the correct or let them besides these aspects and that can be very very helpful we work with other organizations so and CSF the National Coalition for sexual freedom is one of our sort of co-working his nation’s the community academic Consortium for research on alternative sexualities we work with them as well yeah I’m getting chills yeah I’m getting chills cuz this is a lot more than I bargained for and actually seeking a lot of what you’re describing and to have yeah we hope we have a good bit of time last time feeling compelled to ask you a little bit about I guess hey if you’re into taboos right blowing them there is all I ever believed starting this week there’s going to be the biggest psychedelic science conference in the history of humanity happening in the Bay Area it’s put together by that multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies and the there’s a lot of really important cutting-edge legal for the first time in decades studies happening all over the world with psilocybin you know I gave magic mushrooms and MDMA and Ayahuasca and marijuana and peyote and I will gain a number of other synthetic and natural organic you could say psychedelic compounds in a lot of it is at this point in this stage of the Renaissance of research it’s really about proving the safety the relative safety of different compounds getting the dosage to be sort of understood better at also having some really important clinical trials around ending ending addiction to harmful drugs ending cigarette addiction end-of-life anxiety sexual abuse and Trauma and PTSD from War veterans there’s all these different the demographics that are starting to have really groundbreaking results and they’re doing you know they’re putting in the millions of dollars to do the the research for all this and so I bring that up just to say that this is an interesting juncture for me because the a cultural cliche about sex drugs and rock and roll and you know the way that the culture of inebrians is starting to move a large part due to Raves and festivals it’s moving more towards entheogens than just Coke and heroin and meth and booze there’s more opportunities for people who are coming into their sexuality to have access to psychedelic experiences and so there’s the new Alchemy of innocent in these Generations between sex drugs and rock and roll and if it’s it’s it’s it’s a lot more sophisticated and advanced and and and just more diverse in many ways than it was in the 60s when it was you know Acid Rock and LSD and other birth of the the hippie movement in the 60s but I’m wondering if you have in your position they’re come across any any any people who are interested in in rigorous academic study of what this new sex and drugs and rock and roll Paradigm it is shaping up to become if there’s anyone interested in that that you know of he’s been there are definitely people who are starting who are doing research on these topics and very often the connection that ends up happening in the academic research is you know if we’re looking at the sex drugs and rock and roll that of course is going to look at the outcomes and too often I think the the outcome that gets stressed is okay so what’s the what’s the public health issue so is it possible or is it likely that people are might be transmitting STIs because they might be under the influence of something or maybe they can’t we do we have to worry about consent if someone is under the influence of something that then means that they cannot now consent to what happens at that point so what happens if everybody who’s involved have done that so where does that line get drawn so I think a lot of the issues that have come up in recent research has been either on public health topics around STI transmission or on consent topics recognizing that at least by law if someone is inebriated for example they can now no longer consent to sexual activity okay so what happens if everybody involved. That’s so interesting yet that’s exactly what I’ve been actually encountering and in just by life experiences it’s there’s there’s a lot of people now who were you can say you were having expanded Consciousness through empty agentic use meaning it’s kind of a nice way of saying psychedelic no drugs but but that’s an important consideration because just because you feel like you’re enlightened than that one with God doesn’t mean that you’re immune from being the perpetrator with that Enlightenment that you don’t think you have a potential for abuse and even if it’s not that sort of shady you know where that sort of Insidious there’s also just the issue you’re not in your body if you’re having an out-of-body ecstatic psychedelic experience how how do you get even if you can send it to the idea of something earlier in the evening that has to be held through somehow and if you lose the if you become somebody else or part of your higher self or whatever it could be theirs that’s some chicky territory for sure yeah so that’s I guess there’s you know that I’ve seen like at electronic dance music events you can call him Rave but that’s kind of more you know probably more accurate term these days cuz there’s within that whole world there’s different camps and it’s more no more more bride to just called electronic dance music these days but you know there is there’s sort of harm reduction education Outreach groups that put out one sheet kind of look like glass CD mailer cards you know about business matters and they have kind of a profile of what the different substances how did how to test and make sure that they’re real or are what you’re getting it like that there’s that whole harm reduction education Outreach approach that is kind of like what you’re talking about but it’s for the party scene in just for best and better practices around that but I could see that they’re being a sum interest group of people where they would want to see things the way you’re talking about it cuz I actually no way you’re framing it it it feels like there’s a lot more due diligence for people that want to be credible and respectable and using best practices to actually think with some of these analytical tools so I’m hoping you’ll be great if there was some overlap or or or Synergy with all this stuff I think more and more what is happening as we’re seeing the people who are actually involved in all of these different spaces you know the people were actually doing whatever it is we’re talking about having more influence on the research that’s being conducted so that it creates a more authentic overall experience and I think it adds a level of legitimacy to the research so rather than a researcher sort of from on high saying well I’m going to study this group and I think what they’re doing may not be safe and so we know the perspective that I’m going to come about with this is that well this is already inherently unsafe and now I’m going to show you why it’s in safe and I think more and more we have researchers who are in these communities who are in these faces or doing all of these things and you say you know maybe we need to do is talk to the people who were actually doing this and not talk to them with a preconceived notion of what’s going on or what they’re experiencing or what may be happening but go in just as a hey could give us some information to tell us about what’s happening and I think we’re seeing more of that so there has been research on for example like barebacking and there’s been research on sex workers experiences and there’s been research on sort of the the spiritual some of the spiritual Connections in the spiritual extremes that can be experienced through extreme SM activities light hookah coals and those kinds of things so we’re seeing more and more of that happening where people who are actually in these groups are part of the subcultures are also crossovers into the academic life and we’re just seeing an amazing amount of research that starting to Bubble to the surface and get a little bit of space. I think this research has been getting done for quite a while but it can be really hard to get it published because some of the academic Publishers don’t want to hear about it and I want you to my is any of these things so if they publish something on it they want to be really careful so with our journal and with some of the other journals out there we’ve been able to bridge. Cap and actually be able to show some I feel like more authentic stories well absolutely will now in this world have so many The Gatekeepers being dissolved by the power of the internet I feel like you know there’s a lot of bad journalism or untrained journalism so there’s got to be a lot of bad or untrained or Incredible or uncredible research but maybe it’s the methodology that can be what’s the word sort of feel like I could imagine what as you were speaking I was imagining will wouldn’t it be great to train the you know that like the anthropological participation observation ethnography kind of model but if you were to train if you were coming from that subculture and you wanted to sort of document your tribe and produce your own ethnography kind of amongst your friends kind of tabulate experiences and collect notes insured compare notes is there was you recommend any kind of Crash Course doing data collection for different types of research paper I’m doing ethnography in the field and sort of how that works and how you can sort of pull everything together there’s a really good little guidebooks you know a quick online search for for some of these guys are out there and ask her if she is amazing stuff I love doing a photography by the way I think it’s an incredible tool that doesn’t get use nearly enough and and it got a lot of researchers a colleague of mine she recently did a photographic ethnographic working with lgbtq Foster Youth and homeless Youth and kind of went out gave them all cameras and said take photographs of Your World of your life of who you are, and they did a whole art show you know like found a gallery in Downtown LA and just played everyone’s photographs and and you know really got people connected to them and seeing them as people who have life experiences and they’re not just sort of a category of disadvantaged kids so yeah I think there’s there’s an easy guide books out there just like a quick you can find some quick little things of how to do ethnography and how to do that and but I think a lot of that to starts with her own storytelling so things that you do and things that others do and and all the bloggers out there and everything of these are all forms of ethnography relay yeah that’s cool it’s just that it’s exciting and hopeful cuz I feel that I’m at a point where I’m doing kind of pseudo-scientific Rogue radical research that’s way too far out for any government agency or any academic institution to touch with a ten-foot pole so it’s it’s kind of on me and my colleagues and friends 2 do this sort of underground research but then hope that it it’s done in a way that it can be respectable or it can be legitimated later you know but it is probably good to do what you’re suggesting and actually have some some templates for collecting the data that mean okay here’s what would our experiment yielded and here’s the methodology in the procedure and you can test it on your own Hardy or lab or whatever replicate what you’ve done and so can you give enough information that would allow somebody else to replicate and get similar results in their own place or find totally different results which is also fascinating injured and interesting and yeah and I think that’s really I mean that’s science that is science Sciences pushing boundaries and science is you now let’s try a new thing and see what happens and science is telling a new story or New Perspective of a story and you know I think that that’s been lost over the past many years Society The Sciences inquiry science is asking questions and wondering why thing happens and how something happens and trying to figure that out and I think that we’ve sort of collectively as a larger society have sort of lost that Focus write the word crowdsourced crowd-source funding crowdsourced ideas and editing and an art I mean you were talking about that at that photo gallery exhibit and that’s a great example if you would call that a crowd-sourced ethnographic oh yeah photojournalism nice oh yeah that’s cool that’s that’s exciting time so I’m also wondering now do you have do you do you or your organization the Center provide any kind of consulting services or any kind of where you could be hired or you could be sort of commissioned to do research or to consult on Research I don’t know that we’re I don’t know that anybody is really hired to do research cuz wouldn’t it be fantastic if someone will pay for that but that doesn’t happen if we do get hired as consultants for a variety of things so either individuals within the organization or the collective organization May consult on certain projects or consult on like creative curriculum for a particular thing and we have individuals who are consulted on court cases and I’m legal issues so so there’s a lot of that we also get hired by professionals like to teach professional workshops on various topics so that happens as well because we’re a nonprofit although those things are often we you know ask for fee cuz usually the people who were asking for these services are people who can pay for it but what going out to the schools we’re going to colleges in touch or we have a student group asked us to come and do something with them or like what you know we go to somebody’s community of answer something we may ask for an honorarium but we’re going to do this stuff for free so we really depend on our donors and our contributors and the people who support us to kind of give us the funding that we need in order to do what we want to do and and to publishing and all the other stuff so our journals available for free most of our Outreach staff and education program is all for free so yeah a lot of what we do depends on donations as opposed to people actually hiring us officially to do something right on that sounds like a healthy well-rounded multi Revenue stream nonprofit you’re definitely fulfilling your mission in so many beautiful dimensions and I’m just really happy to know that we’ve connected to some really feel better about living in the world with you more offline 2 just to explore some of these Consulting opportunities that you have and see what we’re about and all of that stuff were completely volunteer so none of us are paid for what we do I don’t run a paycheck nobody wants a paycheck that’s completely volunteer and yeah we’re just we’re just trying to let you know we just try to bring it enough funds to keep going and to keep doing what we’re doing and to expand so we’re actually going to be expanding our face-to-face education program out to Chicago over the next few months so Craig can you do that that’s well thank you so much that’s great I feel like it’s it’s really refreshing to to hear that there are people out there who are so dedicated to the cause that it’s that you did not just going to slam the door in your face if you don’t write a check if you know the first five minutes if you’re not going to bill me for this podcast interview right now about an hour into it is do you have a sort of committee or task force or team or just even a person who is either because they are a trauma Survivor or because it’s just near and dear to their hearts whatever reason is there you do consent workshops in self-defense or rape and assault prevention and any any more of the or any any of the sort of preventative and treatment kind of education unpreparedness we do have programs around consent we don’t really specifically talk about self defense or or right prevention in the standard sense so we don’t really talk about here’s what you can do to prevent being raped we talked about here’s what you can do to not rape someone because really this is not on the victim this is on the perpetrator but we also talked about you know here’s other ways that you might think about your sexual self and your identity in the power dynamics that you may interact with and find consensual outlets for some of your interests and behaviors and the citiz and you know we talked about a wide range of those things so it would be great if the people who are doing the Rape Crisis counseling and who are just in the trenches of dealing with battered women and in and going in and and doing you know investigations to catch meant to prosecute the perpetrators of all ages if they were I would let it would be great if in it you know in a perfect world they were seeking you all to educate themselves on better prevention and better version or diversion from the criminal whole that the response like they’re coming as the First Responders two incidents that would have been prevented by a proper education on all sides right and we do have we do have information so some of our researchers and and because we have people who are social workers who have conducted research through us who have published on how to do how to have a sex positive approach to handling victims how to have a sex positive approach to handling offenders and that these approaches can really help reduce crime can reduce negative stigma can reduce it comes cool is that would that be on your website or at some if I if I can follow up with you later cool okay well alright I feel like it’s this is yes. A real blessing and I just want to thank you again for your time and generous sharing of great info so with that said do you want to give the website and any other maybe upcoming events or anything else you’d like to promote and the website is positive sexuality. Org journal and that’s Journal of positive sexuality. Org we have our anniversary party coming up this July so if you want to be invited and want to be a part of that anniversary party will be a fundraiser you can contact me at Emily Emily at positive sexuality. Org or you can go to our website and put in your email address and then you’re on our newsletter list and you’ll get information through our newsletter about our party and we’re hoping we’re putting together an academic conference for next year so look on our website check things out if you go to sex pause khan.com so s e x p o s c o n. Com there’s going to be updated information they’re probably starting in the next couple of weeks for our positive sexuality conference coming up in 2018 in Burbank all right that’s very exciting thank you again yeah that’s me alright thank you so much again and I will hopefully I’ll be in touch soon thank you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite sex if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at kontrapunkt. Com Thomas gay

Understanding Sexological Bodywork with Dr. Victoria Reuveni TPP106



In this episode I’m joined by Dr. Victoria Reuveni, a highly experienced and accomplished sexuality educator and healer. We explore the ins and outs of sexological bodywork, some of the bottle-necks of the practice, and compare notes on how we would like the field of hands-on sexual healing grow and evolve as it reaches and helps more and more people and gains more momentum and recognition in all of it’s diverse modalities.

Please visit her website at:

Dr. Victoria Reuveni, DHS, CSB, ACSI, is a Los Angeles-based sexological bodyworker, sex educator, and coach working with individuals, couples, and groups to facilitate going deeper in erotic embodiment and self-acceptance through mindfulness, breath work, and touch. She blogs about sex, kink, gender, and body image and reviews sex toys.

Victoria is a board member and educator with the Center for Positive Sexuality, speaking on panels to university students and professionals about kink/BDSM, nonmonogamy, and sex work.

She has facilitated over thirty Orgasmic Yoga circles, including a six-week series and monthly circles in Los Angeles, a three-evening mini-series in 2016 in Sacramento which will be reprised in June 2017.

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved’s welcome to Township hunting podcast episode number 106 I am here with Victoria the sexologist Vixen and she’s got an amazing array of qualifications as a sex. One of the most comprehensive personalities I’ve yet discovered and then she’s really skilled in a number of modalities sexual healing and Bodywork modalities that have been touched on before I say briefly in the past and past episodes and so this is going to be a real treat to be able to go and deeply explore some of you some very cutting-edge sexuality and sexual therapeutic modalities out there so give us an introduction tell us about how you achieved all these great things and what your life has been like and what you’re offering now and what’s what’s next to chat so I wouldn’t say that when I started on this past that I knew I’d be touching people and helping them for pleasure and things like that but I guess growing up I was raised in an Orthodox Jewish household upbringing I went to Orthodox Jewish schools through 12th grade but also I was raised living in West Hollywood California open this happening around me but also not so much opportunity around sex positivity and things like that so that was super interested and then fast forward to my undergrad I found out that I was a Psychology major and I noticed I was taking a few classes that were we call it part of the requirement to meet for human sexuality minor so I was like okay I’m actually super interested in this I think at the time I’ve been listening to a couple podcasts and my appetite you know was was like open and ready as hungry for kind of anything and so yeah I went sort of down that human sexuality minor and start of by the time maybe like what he called like within like a semester or two before I was graduating of the kindest abandoned this whole psychology side of things is like too much and I at that point I knew I did not want to go into practice or like having to diagnose people or pathologize people in it’s a it’s kind of a mess but anywho after I graduated I didn’t really know where my path is going to take me knowing that I didn’t want to become a psychologist and so I was looking into programs that had human sexuality like doctorates or or Master’s programs things like that and through whole series of events and searching and being rejected from universities which happens and turn out to be blessings in Disguise I went to The Institute in San Francisco and was working on my doctorate in human sexuality was just I was qualified not if you did see but more it’s a DHS sexuality which was very much more about experiential learning and challenging by season and preconceived notions and things like that rather than necessarily academically rigorous which suited me just fine like all of them work with masturbation but there was a chunk of that but definitely a lot more like reading and dust exposure to some amazing amazing resources to be videotaped all their lectures like from like the 70s so even though I didn’t get to see people in person but I got to feel like Weird Al Pomeroy who is Kenzie’s right hand person so there’s a really phenomenal much has to be exposed to and and also coming into things eBay stuff so around the time I was working through my doctorate they had an offering for psychological Bodywork training which at the time I intended to take because I was thinking well I’m kind of leaning towards going until like coaching kinds of things and and you know hoping to work we know one-on-one or maybe with couples are groups or various configurations like that but how dare I someone who’s hoping to teach or work with folks around pleasure or overcoming sexual concerns how do how do I even touch that or you know work with that if I have no understanding of of the body and the body can do so I just took that as sort of adding to my toolbox I was kind of no intention to to use it and I even going through the at home training in the first portion of of of the training I have a bit of resistance and I was like I don’t want to find peoples buttholes and massage buttholes so difficult you know if you like critical dragged my feet even though I was very like conscious of the fact that I paid to do this and then we had our in-person intensive part of the training real work done each other and some kind of lightbulb rice which kind of turn on for me and I’ll actually complimented on my touch which was like kind of huge and revelatory and so kind of from there I’ve my focus has been more on sex logical Body Works and trying to delve more until like expanding pleasure sides of things a little bit more than overcoming concerns per say although that is no the other side of the coin and then the orgasmic yoga portion of my recent stuff that I’ve been doing is that when we were going to the training for sexological Bodywork we did we were exposed to through some of the videos and things we had to watch and some of the end part of it was that when we were we will start our days each day during orgasm and so it was like there’s there’s nothing that will compare to being in a room with 20 something people of all different ages and genders and presentations and orientation Court being a note constantly and Body in touch as happening like 10 hours a day for 2 weeks but I I love the practice and I want to try to encapsulate at least a little tiny nugget I can share with folks and I found through somewhat consistent practice of this all so that I’m able to tap into my own like authentic glasses and nose and it’s been really really amazing to like BB and ion process and hold other people’s process used process used throughout and so those are kind of the two things I do I also sporadically blog really bad about consistency and I review sex toys sometimes yes consistency is a thing but yeah that’s kind of me in a nutshell okay so great so how did people or what what do you mean offerings then in your your location and, if you were doing a promo piece what was you what would you like people to to know about what you have to offer so I am based out of Los Angeles and I have been holding orgasmic yoga circles between one and two. Like one or two a month for the past few months said love for folks to know check that out through my website and find out more it’s not for everybody but super edgy so Mike I got it but there’s a form their questions and I kind of like four people through that I don’t have a current date yet on my calendar yet for that but possibly another one at the end of April I just had one this Tuesday so I still haven’t attacked that down yet to see and yeah just one-on-one or or partnered or couple’s sort of Hands-On work if that feels right or just coaching some people just don’t have a space and Sara Lee to talk about sexuality or like what’s going on with them and so I feel like I’m kind of you know I’m a dork I feel like I’m pretty approachable and I’m goofy and I don’t claim to like have all the answers that will solve all things but I think a big part of what I do is in permission giving and giving people options who’s who doesn’t love option Hawaii have or when you can head and right on well that’s that’s wonderful so Yaz mentioning before that 6 logical body work has been near and dear to me through various friends and colleagues and I feel like this would be a great opportunity if you were if you’re interested to kind of give an overview of what the training is what you know about the background and and how it really stands out is a very unique opportunity for people in the sex industry for people who are in the therapeutic industry and in feels it’s a really amazing sort of under under what would it be I would like you to have to have more people to have way more understanding awareness that this is that this option exists and it’s really it’s been it’s kind of underground as a practice compared to many other modalities that are getting a lot of press in a lot of you know just people that are hip to a lot of other offerings but this is something that is could be the most pivotal and impactful for anyone and everyone is certainly people who are doing with drama and survivors so yeah with that said if you could just introduced that years ago like around this time so like in the spring so but my recollection of it is correct it came kind of from I stink like Body Electric sorts of a community I don’t know if you know about them but they’re very much like a rhotic embodiment practice and I think the focus is more on on men but they might be bringing more women stuff now I’m a little fuzzy on that and I don’t want to speak totally I’m incorrectly but I think it’s kind of weird that started I’m Joseph Kramer was one of the biggest I think people behind that and yeah we still have some of his old videos or just pretty fun and so the the whole thing behind it is that you know talk sorts of therapy can kind of only go so far the super valuable and I know I couldn’t you just that which is obviously, I I I chose not to go down that path but there’s so much learning and wisdom that can be found sabbatical you know in the body and because of you know various laws and all these other sorts of red tape and things a lot of talk therapists can’t do touch so I think it would be valuable and this is actually one of the things I’m kind of envious about intern like in comparison to surrogate partner therapy wishes that they work in a triadic model with you know the practitioner and a therapist and the client where the start of sex logical body workers are kind of on their own kind of would be nice to have some folks like me that way but you been on that for just a second cuz I I like that word yet so if I’m if I’m assuming an understanding correctly a triadic model so that’s where four if if you were a sex surrogate it’s allowed legally and I don’t know how many states are jurisdictions but it exists as a as a legal serve certification or role that you can have so that you can actually have full on sexual intercourse if you were referred by a by a state licensed psychotherapist to have that experience as part of your treatment plan and so is that what you mean by the Triad there’s like a kind of a free-floating and sex prescription 6 a.m. constant check in with the person who is also working through whatever it is you know Siri talk to or talk modality and then having sort of accountability system happening all things are being communicated but also I mean sex doesn’t always necessarily happen in that space and if it does it’s usually the last thing and a lot of cases I’m totally going off on a tangent but it is different from a good point to make is that a lot of times in Insurgent work it’s more fun working like with intimacy and so being able to feel like a real late with another person and kind of creating sort of our world kinship for this. Of time with you know a beginning middle and an end and it’s kind of structured in a certain way and yes you know sex whatever penetration might happen but that’s way way down below and I think that’s not that’s not something but usually known or is not understood you’re saying that the the The Stereotype from the outside is that you’re illegal sex worker who has sex for money that’s legal but what you’re saying is actually that’s either a small part of it or maybe not even necessarily has to happen but it’s it’s it’s allowed to happen legally for late cuz for some people maybe they they have trouble you no talking to the the gender person that they are attracted to their have trouble you know like holding hands or making whatever the moves are or or I gave thing or any of these things and I could be a huge sources of anxiety and so having this sort of very structured safe space to practice these things is super valuable like no one teaches anyone to be sexually literate we just hope you know hey you turn 18 in magical you’re supposed to know how to do all these things that we haven’t ever talked about them right cuz you know teenagers turn on it or not you know they’re not sexually a conversation or able to do things actually happen before we before we go for it this is really just really exactly what I was hoping to find out so I appreciate it yet by all means take your time with it with everything so what is would so crucial to me in in in this these understandings is how the logic of the patriarchal institutions of government and morality and I’m Center he actually what precedents there are to build new policy on in and what does I know you’re not actually a lawyer you’re operating in in in territories that lawyers have been fighting on the front lines of and there’s been a lot of it we’re all standing on the backs of giants from all of the precedent setting cases that have happened so that we want we want it I’m not I’m not expecting you to go into all that stuff but I have one question which you may or may not have any reason to to have an answer to but it’s I’m super curious now as we’re going into the surrogate discussion a little bit is are there health insurance programs that cover the the therapy that there that the truck that that triadic model of accessing services for mental health or is it totally not covered yet and I don’t know currently but my my understanding or like my recollection is that no there I don’t think there is much support a connection with like you know mental health jobs at least not in the US I would think and probably I could be totally wrong and I hope people will correct me because I’m open to learning and you know knowing but and that’s also becomes a thing that’s a huge problem in terms of just you know health and mental health in all these things that is it’s the services that maybe are available or difficult for folks who don’t have resources and can you know if you don’t have you know if you can’t pay for the services cuz it’s one thing to maybe go to a therapist or maybe one thing to go to a body worker but then you’re paying for two Services if it’s can be costly and you know I don’t want to put any of my fellow folks out of out of work but it’s it’s this whole I don’t know like House of Cards in a way we’re like we don’t we don’t have these conversations or we shut sexuality down like four entire lives and then it just becomes whole other thing where you need to find services to have outlets in and learn and explore in at least four things well thank you. That was that was kind of what I feel like this is where this is an edge for growth where people who are you know coming in to do with fresh energy and resources and you know will power and who can actually say wow well there’s got to be a way to to make the make these healing modalities more accessible because it’s some point I think we’ll be able to prove that if you sell people’s sexual issues than every other mental illness just instantly evaporates for is at least a lot easier to manage it could be that means there’s a lot and we totally will get sidetracked on this but I think there’s definitely the other issue of mainstream mental health maybe is not so sex positive so you might happen to be like kinky and you’re going in to see you know what therapist for depression they’re like well obviously you’re depressed because you’re doing the you know wacky things are you want to go to dungeons but meanwhile I was like no no like I’m actually just depressed and it’s a problem I don’t even know how to begin this early to unravel but yeah I like the way he called the boundary sort of are around meaning and what is cuz it’s addressing all these things were talking about so yeah but yeah so the training was over several months and there was an at-home abortion where we had videos and various readings we had to do and we were we had a check in you know you know through a forum and all that kind of stuff so we were kept on task and so we had to like work on ourselves or work fine folks to work on and then later we had a man in in person intensive training where we basically went through all of it we had just done but together in a group and I totally like I’m not doing it justice because we were super embodying like we were consoling touching each other in these various you know with basically within the same containers we would do so sex logical body work is done it is 1 way touch so practitioner touch his client client does not touch the practitioner the practitioner is closed and we use gloves for any genital work so that’s not the same like the work isn’t super intimate because hey you might be naked and guy in touch and also working through concerns are discovering new things about yourself and your pleasure and Regina Simmons and all these different things as compared to like something like a surrogate work it’s it’s less intimate because we’re there as petitioner sort of to be like the vehicle I would say help sort of reframe and reflect and give permission to the folks who come to see us yeah so we would we did this sort of you know several Hands-On sessions every day for like about 2 weeks like super and body like wow and then following that we had to go in fine folks to work on and I think like the main purpose of that and it might have may have changed in the four years since I went through the training I think the structure is basically the same is mainly we want to try to work with clients and also like create like a structure where it’s like multiple sessions over time cuz certainly can get a lot of learning from one session but as much as we want to be like in some gratification like cool I’m fixed or you know the shift might not be after the Quinn sessions so you might need a minimum of three to start seeing different things moving shifting and learning from your body Okay so what were some of the I mean with this sounds it’s funny cuz it sounds like this training is it would be for a lot of people the first time that they’ve engaged in any kind of group sexual activity and Maybe not maybe that’s wrong maybe most people have already come from pretty liberated background but it’s very interesting to me Imagining the what kind of what kind of Transformations were happening just in that that classroom environment I have I can just imagine that some people would be experiencing their own hulings and having explosive Transformations happening just right there and probably what was it what was it like to be in at the Academy of sexual healing with yeah I can I can only really speak to my own experience in that but to see like all the different sorts of bodies definitely ask someone who is fat and has been fat their entire life it’s it was super empowering to see if they’re all different shapes and sizes and you know levels of firmness or not in all these different bodies and guess what they all can experience you know yummy feelings so yeah I might not be maybe like in love with or accepting of the fact that my belly is not you know whatever but hey it’s soft and it feels it is ticklish and all these different like other things I like Jeremih. Myself in any way interested in this washboard abs for all gen I’m not going to wait till like Beavis someone’s arbitrary ideal you know I can be in my body now and I think that was probably the biggest takeaway and that’s not to say that like I don’t have dark days sometimes we’re just like but nothing fits and clothes don’t lay right or just my body is it may be selling the way I’d like it to or pain or whatever but the more I work on this in the more I practice in the more I try to at least be accepting if not loving of my body is a whole then like those dark moments they they become easier to overcome and there’s kind of a shorter shorter up moments and time rather than just constantly spiraling so that’s probably my biggest takeaway cool so then I know it’s a very strict protocol for a lot of these boundaries and a lot of the accountability and the sort of mindset that you want to be approaching a client with do you want to talk a bit about those those boundaries for you keeping projections encounter projections and transference and all these sort of catchphrases of classical therapeutic modalities how how you how that was addressed and also the the Aftercare which is so I think neglected in a lot of just it’s just I feel after care is in across many different modalities it’s it’s neglected in an underemphasized so I’m curious to see how you all doing with that really on top of your game as as a sex illogical bodyworker you’ll call it out from the get-go on particular should know that you’ll have I think many multiple sessions with a client you might call it out and be like hey there might be a little bit of transference and know that this is because we’re in the space but on this is very much about you and your your processing and you’re learning so if I think I should really on your game you’ll just call it out I don’t think I’ve really seen a lot of that in my in my practice and also like I’m I I mean I explain like what what goes on in the boundaries of you know gloves and 1 way touch and bean clothes that’s like always out there and I always talk about consent I always have a consent exercise that is a little more in-depth like it for our first our first Hands-On session but I make sure to point out that yes even though we know you’re here to do this thing and we want to do Hands-On work together you are at twice the entire time I don’t want you to sit there and take it and if something’s I’m comfortable if for whatever reason you need to stop to find the language that works for you if it’s like get your hands off me or you know please can you remove your hands or if you know can you like press harder here or later there or whatever like I want that open communication and I do also do check-in look as we go and I I don’t want this early to be like constantly chattering on the table because then they’re not necessarily sinking in and focusing on what’s going on for them somatically so there’s a this fine balance of checking and seeing like how’s it going so far in like what’s going on for you and you thought or any modifications you might need but also like I really want them to check in on them breathing I want them to be focusing in as being as present as possible also don’t want them to like not being the space I was like Hey Oh I have to do what my laundry later for her it’s a lot of stuff so the way I build it is I will have like a chat before hand and make sure you check in on things you want to work on her different sorts of things we want to do or things a week near totally are off the table for that day and we do the session it’s not always Hands-On by the way like my my stuff is very flexible in that way and folks can also choose to be like fully undressed or or not I had arranged as well cuz I want to meet people where they’re at I don’t want them to come to me like oh wow I’m supposed to be fully nude relaxed okay like we can meet you where you are cuz I don’t want to like traumatize our reach home at has anyone again the whole thing of consent so we do that session and then we have time at the end part 1 is savoring so we let the person just kind of be their hands and I kind of like you know they are like my sweet like holding space for them to marinate for like 5 minutes or so without judgment and hopefully like maybe you think sinking in a different way then when hands are directly on them and then after that we know if we were undressed or whatever we going we chat for when I don’t see how that was how I’m like what what what they may have wanted more or less maybe like the headlight bulb moments you know throughout the about the process yeah so that’s kind of how how my sessions tend to go and it’s it’s kind of difficult to say like all I always do this for always do that I think because every person is different and everything they come to see me with might be different mainly it’s about like definitely like about breasts and and checking on your breathing because so often we don’t we don’t consciously breathe everybody knows I say that on my friend phone down and yeah just like this like practice of noticing also is is super interesting to me and like noticing and not necessarily having to do anything about if it’s like oh hey like what’s going on in your pinky toe okay it’s kind of goofy but it’s right on so then when a person has a session and they get sent on their merry way are there is there like a Aftercare list of things to be aware of family and you instruct them to take B have a journal so they can take notes if things come up if they want to remember afterwards or or any any kind of instructions like what you call it a discharge sheet or whatever they would do at a hospital or something I haven’t had that yet maybe I need to but I kind of just depends on the person maybe they just need more resources because maybe the work we did was fine but maybe they need something else I’m in addition to that so I would give them resources for example if they needed more like what do you call it more of a reciprocal touch or something maybe I prefer them to like a cuddle event because like I’m touching you but you’re just kind of being there and it might not it’s just not exactly the same sort of experience so of classes play we have so many so many resources that we shouldn’t take for granted or they might naturally gravitate towards that but I I I also sometimes they like homework lowercase age cuz I don’t want people to be like for those kind of things so I want people to connect in a way that works for them can ice I would say also that my practice even though I’ve been kind of at this for 4 years is still really new and I haven’t had enough of an experience really to like how to complete exact formula so I’m like super flexible I’m depending on on the person I always leave it open-ended of like you know please reach out to me if you have you no questions or like concerns your freaking out or I’ll try to be as supportive as I can I say that also with my students as well I don’t want people to think like a cool we did this thing for a few hours and now what but so if people take me up on it I’m totally there but I can do Yeah OK Google will another another question would be sweet I think you we touched upon earlier that you wouldn’t necessarily expect that a sex let’s go bodyworker would have a someone in the role not necessarily a nurse practitioner who is officially trained but someone who is there to just be a witness to hold space in a more kind of new-age sense or or receiving her practical sense of making sure there’s water making sure the temperature is you know you don’t have to get up and change the room temperature if the person’s not comfortable or something so is that something that is built into the program or not so much for something that you would hope that you would have eventually and it’s just not it’s cost-prohibitive or that would be super cool. Like teams of people but now it’s all just me and hopefully I don’t have to like get a lien on it with like coconut oil drenched hands or something like still with stuff I try my best in the Hands-On sort those scenarios to have everything within you know I like a quick trip around the table kind of walking distance you know and I think we’ve had to have like a blanket or like a sheet that’s long enough so that we can drape over if someone needs that I recommend wearing socks sometimes that helps with body temperature I mean I think most people are so sadly unfortunately embarrassed and ashamed about being just naked let alone naked and being stimulated so there’s so many barriers to being fully just relaxed and comfortable just being naked let alone like I said being to having everything and it’s been happening but I think in a perfect world it would be more conducive to I guess best medical practices in in in general looking at that model to have there be support staff who you if you have to press an emergency button they come running in you know or if you have to you know if there’s if there’s a Medicus I’ve seen things in the in my non-certified sexological Bodywork practice that can sometimes make you want to push a panic button of some kind so that’s I guess the question would be what if someone said hey can I you know you can even recommend but we’re just explore this save this this notion that if if there were more money if there were more money in the practice or let’s say in your bank account then you could hire staff as part of your practice or you can say something like if you have a trusted friend who you could bring or a partner or somebody who can be there and sign a release form or some some sort of paperwork that you know gives them a bit of an orientation but then they could be the emergent like the live emergency contact in the session with them I mean that seems like maybe a perfect world scenario and like it’s hard because most people they don’t want anyone else to see what they’re about to go through they don’t know what it’s going to be like 2 so there’s that too so just thoughts on on these because we are sometimes we don’t even like if it’s a partner person they might not even the partner may not even know that they’re coming to see me which is the whole sandwich like you know I can’t I don’t want to judge but also it’s like I like and also like that that’s not quite related but this time John told that like if you can’t if your partner in your coming to see me and you can’t really talked about the fact that you’re coming to see me and then suggestions I give you my dear Aliyah till I bringing this up with your partner and they can’t sell seems like I so limited like how I can help you if you can’t no breach that like that divides like I can’t unless I’m going to come home with you and Mike have an intervention and I think people are going to do but I think it would be kind of cool to be able to have like I don’t know even like a like a resource or something where I could be like hey if you’re having this reaction that I could you know I don’t know call in the sex positive whatever EMT I don’t know that is not a thing that any of his every need guy so I don’t really have a good answer for that yeah I was just curious if you if you have fuel that paying you know that that it would be in a perfect world it wouldn’t be so taboo it wouldn’t be so we wouldn’t be so legally limited and so financially limited to do what feels right and I’ll be nice as much as hey why this is important work how do you do it right well you know you really are serious let me let me list everything that could be optimized about it because I think the time will come when people look up to people such as yourself and they want to change the policy and change the you know everything from the laws to the health insurance programs and and all of that and diversion program certainly for perpetrators to get this work done and other types of sexual healing modalities there a lot of victims of trauma and abuse and misuse it’s important to include people who just have never had orgasm especially women during sex or no said I would consider that not necessarily directly a form of abuse that cause that and in all cases but really miss you soooo is another term that kind of expands the the range of what people are dysfunctional sexually about are the causes of it so I just wanted to put that in the sidebar but the question I have is it for the inquiry here is that a lot of this work is being done for victims of abuse and misuse and I don’t know if yet there is a a real massive campaign to Market this work for perpetrators to get treatment and I don’t know if the let me know would like to see a world where people who are doing this work or so disgusted and fed up by the Mount of sexual violation that’s happening in the caseloads that we all have that we actually want to go after the root source and it end and deal with the predators in the perpetrators of all kinds and so proactively Market to them and Market to the criminal psychiatrist in Market to the Social Service nonprofits that are working to rehabilitate and all of those even the even the that the the religious what do you call in The Minister’s that work in the prison so you know I mean it it’s there so many different people who are trying to address the issue of Rehabilitation perpetrators and they don’t even know this kind of work exists I have no idea about it so there’s that potential for people in the field to 22 / actively seek clients you know in that sense as a business strategy of all things if not just out of the compassion for their victims that they work on it is also the potential of there being political pressure to say you don’t get to go back into the general population as a citizen as a sex offender unless you have gone through this type of purging and this is the closest form of a medical sexual sort of exorcism if you will that currently exist and everything else is way out there on the fringes so this could be a real powerful piece and so I’m just wondering now you know having laid out that you know this this sort of this inquiry if have yourself worked on anyone who would self-identify as having harmful parafilias or being a sex offender if whatever kind and if if so with what you have to say about that and if not if you know any colleagues and have that cuz I think that’s really where the research should be done you know so we can go after the root of the problem and not just be you know putting Band-Aids on it one person at a time so that’s my PSA right there if I have I’ve nuts never been something that was disclosed to me by a client so that’d be difficult to stay I do think that this is a valuable segment of where some of this work could go and definitely more needs to be looked into seeing how we could reframe this in a more yeah more of a rehabilitation sort of sort of a context I’m also not familiar with people who are doing this work and not particularly not in looks like a logical Bodywork although that definitely sounds like a valuable thing something in like a corner of my mind that I can’t fully recall is maybe there’s a little bit of research on it and I want to say a friend and colleague of mine doctor DJ WIlliams who is a research director at the center for positive sexuality where I’m a board member and educator has done a bit of a little bit of research at least around totally going to ruin this around like Galaxy Prime something to do with like sexual crimes or something like that I’m not I’m going to try because I’ll totally mess it up but yeah I would definitely encourage folks to look into the Journal of positive sexuality where there’s original research being done around that and that way you can find DJ and his work he’s also an amazing researcher and general I am definitely a little bit out of the loop when it comes to this particular segment of of the broader like sexual healing umbrella but definitely I’d be open to learning more cool thank you for that yeah I’m here just looking for whatever leads and support and yeah broadening the discourse as much as I can and so did for me this this whole podcasts is a ongoing research project so I really value and appreciate everything that you’re sharing and your willingness to open up about these things in it sounds like you’re having a blast and having fun and you’re not but do you have what would be some advice that you have as a practitioner to avoid burnout in to do self-care into just make sure that you’re doing your own spiritual energetic hygiene so that you you can continue to be blasting through this stuff and I’m not sure that I have the answer to that cuz I definitely had been feeling a little bit of burnout particularly we didn’t talk about it but that’s totally fine around like the blogging stuff and like sex for a year if you make them just like I don’t want cuz just bodies and thinking critically about things sometimes I’d rather not but definitely like even acknowledging that you know what we might be sometimes the face of these you know how edgy you know sexuality is this like a g thing and we’re supposed to know this word expert actually really gets under my skin I don’t claim to be an expert cuz like I barely know myself I don’t want to claim to know about other people but I would hope that we could recognize that it’s okay to want to not do this for a little while in like that’s why it’s important to have like other interests and hobbies whatever those are and and not necessarily neglect those along the way you know whether it’s like you know going to the theater or getting your manicure pedicure sort of thing or taking a yoga classes are you no cooking or anything like that it’s important to to stay connected to those other things and you know we also so much in the social media world where everything you know we don’t really take photographs or posts things about the difficult the difficult nest and the rough patches and how tired or how much energy your how much work we know we have or don’t have that goes into the other side of the best of everyone just like happy smiling and body face or whatever is lovely more of that but also there are two sides at least two sides probably way more to all of this is that you know yet is a struggle and it is difficult and I mean just for people in this feel that goes really anything which is you know we get so surrounded by these like you know Stepford Wives clink robot you know everything so happy and perky for a lot of people the world is falling apart and sometimes literally so it’s okay to take a breath and take take a break from social media that something I have not yet done as a millennial true to my you know Millennial nature I need to like be tapped in all the time but yeah I think it’s important it’s like take a step back and like look into the other interests you have in your life and not just be like constantly trying to kill ourselves fruit for this so this is all the things that the industrial capitalist imagine that we would be doing with these well with was with however many more than 40 hours a work week it was when there was no child labor laws and when there is no weekend and when it says they had enriching in it sometimes that you know exhilarating it’s very energy-intensive and so these things and other people’s process and it’s it’s a lot and then you have to go and go with your own like whatever you’re going through possibly it’s just it’s so much and practically because Quality Inn Lake Buena conversations around sexuality and gender and everything are at least at least for me I don’t know it’s like I feel like I’m constantly surrounded by this in one way or another that like I can’t I almost can’t let go down the street and like there’s a billboard that I’m just like a rolling my eyes are you know just like why would you choose to do this and this way again who are the people that you’re not targeting we’re having this thing aren’t you know what how how is this Frame do you know Marketing in like what does it say about ideal bodies are ideal sexuality is very stinky and all that is just it’s just marketing and all bodies are amazing and you know just be where you’re at it makes me just realized we live in a trauma soup you know you can’t open your eyelids you can’t wake up and not be traumatized by million things in one day if you’re having to make a living in this world and you don’t have the the freedom and luxury and privilege to go meditate in the caves in the Himalayas do you know you no longer treats and stuff so yeah we certainly salute you in the work that you’re doing and the leadership that you’re you’re taking on and I really appreciate that we’ve gotten to explore some of these issues and feel like this just opens the door for more people who want to step up and you know you could have interns interns could be the ones who come in and don’t ask for money in her willing to just be apprentices and they could do things like change the temperature in the room for you or for the client and so interns you know get on board let’s do this it’s it’s it’s a worthy cause your website and talk about to again just what you have to offer and how people can connect in any any final closing words that you like to share Vixen. V i x e n n e.com I am at Doctor Vixen on pretty much most of social media I’m happy happy to you know how potential clients I don’t sell take everyone but I’m open to at least find enough people reach out to me and I can refer people out is if it’s not too good to say I’m totally okay with doing that for a sex logical Body Works like one-on-one stuff if you want other I’d rather talk about together but like I have done on classes on squirting no demo so it’s not super edgy but Turnigy which is fine and the focus is not so much on gender but about bodies and how how that can happen I also have I will have planned will plan circles in Los Angeles I’m also bringing a little mini series up to Sacramento again at the end of June so Sacramento peeps get in touch no I’m just happy to connect with folks find me on social media and you know I take pictures of my lattes true and any words I guess maybe people who were inspired by what you’re saying and want to get involved you recommend that they save up and and get him or with the trainings that you did and how would you know or donate to different organizations or just you know believes your tax burden we do Outreach education education and we have a research we have our I think it’s now on our third volume of are peer-reviewed real access journal the journal positive sexuality so we definitely we reach people both locally and globally so it’s just it’s so amazing I love the work that we do what else can I would definitely suggest the people at least look into the psychological Body Work Association cuz I mean I’m just in La I know that there are other workers here but they are all over the world their training is all over the world and then also legalities will vary depending on location so I mean the training a super super valuable even if you plan on never using it in your practice like if you just want to know if you are talk therapist and you know there’s all that those boundary things that you have to be mindful of it could be super valuable to just take it not for the certification but just to add your toolbox yeah so yeah that would be really helpful I think also will thank you so much for your time and just have a wonderful day and we’ll definitely be in touch podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at our trip songs. 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