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Sequioa and Ziji

Gay Tantra in Canada and Beyond with Sequoia and Ziji of Men in Touch TPP288

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In this episode I have the great honor and pleasure of exploring the diverse and complimentary paths of two gay tantrikas in Canada, and discussing many intersections spirituality and sexuality

About Sequia:

I view life as a school for love.
My life intention is to live in the heart of union…in the eternal oneness of now.
For over 30 years I’ve been sharing with others the practices I find most helpful to get out of the overloaded, busy mind, and connect more with the heart, breath and body, where unity and love live. It’s all about High Level Wellness…in body, heart and soul.

I have a special passion for sharing with other men what I’ve been learning about the deeper dimensions of intimacy, including full-body sensual massage, many practices drawn from Yoga and Tantra, and more recently the profound “Into Me See” of eye-gazing meditation and “We Space.”

Learn more at growinghealthier.com and menintouch.org

About Ziji:

Ziji is a facilitator at Men In Touch, teaching men skills and practices to deepen intimacy and integrate spirituality and sexuality. In addition, he is a tantric bodyworker, yoga instructor (RYT), organizer of the Ignite Festival (ignite-fest.com), and amateur queer scholar. He makes a home in Coast Salish Territory, Vancouver, and spends as much time at the nude beach as possible! Find him at gaymassagevancouver.com

My Non Verbatim Show Notes:

TP: why not rainbow tantra

S: vietnam veteran, out of air force 1972, bee line to berkeley

very free very open

discovered, alternative spirituality, blossoming then TM, massage, holistic practices, hatha yoga, beginning to become known, fringey

explore sexuality, tantra, contradicted all the catholic upbringing I had

spirituality/sexuality same energy expressed in different ways

opposite of christian belief

body impediments to spirtuality

intrigued 80s, bay area, aids epidemic, helpful if gay brothers were aware of practices that didn’t involve penetration, fluid exchange, much more about subtle energy,

started workshops, 1987, 33 years

thrilling to watch men discover more layers of intimacy

Z: I’m much younger, about almost 4 decades, grew up in different context, calgary, alberta, suburban, typical suburban conservative culture

turned to spirituality, early 20s, tibetan buddhist

monastery 2 years, nova scotia

separate from sexual life

moved to vancouver, 8 years ago

exploring, alternative things

going to sequia’s workshop, men in touch workshop about massage

attended that workshop, transformative experience, all this stuff I had learned, practice, in that non sexual context of spirituality

unified it with whole other dimension of being, becoming more important to myself

starting to discover power of sexuality

met about 7 years ago, had profound connection

personal, year or so, invited to co-teach

co-facilitating, weekly classes in vancouver, retreats, rural areas, every year festival, last 3 years, annual festival ignite festival, a lot going on, a lot of fun

S: mostly what I came to experience, sexual explorations in bay area, men

level of intimacy felt shallow, getting hard, getting off, didn’t satisfy something in me, seemed like fast food

intuition, past lives, knowingness something more, keen to keep exploring tantra, one workshop, bay area 70s

berkeley guy about my age, joe kramer

same classes, m chia, multi orgasmic man

microcosmit orbit, fascinating, moving energy, both sexual and spiritual

joseph, convo, similar interests, created body electric school, life changing for many people, pioneering, presenting workshop around conscious sexuality

less sexual more meditative and sensual

met wonderful guy in sf, body work as I had been, different kinds of movement classes, yoga for gay men, dance like stuff

doug fraiser, conversation, decided to collaborate, events called light tough retreats for loving me, weekend retreats bay area, near seattle

full body sensual eroticism, more meditative than goal oriented

ziji, been collaborating, delighted where he’s been taking our work, I’m 75, ziji 34, radical direction, just dozen guys at a time, ziji, taking it virtual, planet wide

z: mostly been working with classes retreats, beautiful containers, men go deeply, came across other modality, other container, festival, different experience, more people, usually not one container, people are popping in and out of workshops, different experience, neither better than other

offering ignite festival, last 2 years, in person, vancouver, this year got cancelled, covid, decided to do it virtual

ignite festival, online, unexpectedly all over the world, joining festival,

people from every continent, really quite and amazing experience to have that

always been more local, regional, beautiful experience

inspiration came to us, do offer really truly global festival, partnered with man in berlin, singapore, each taking 1/3 of the world, 24 hour a day festival, people can join in

invite many teachers, plurality, organizing it

invite teachers from body electric, not necessarily around sacred sexuality,

emotional, embodiment practices, etc.

no plans to be doing this kind of thing, silver linings of covid epidemic, new models, new ways of connecting

S: I would say focus of everything we do is exploring for me, many levels of intimacy, men tendency go for groin, pleasure of that so obvious in male body

ziji and I both discovered, emotional communication, meditative presence, loving kindness meditation, self, partner, group setting, level of compassion into intimacy, whole realm rarely considered

realms of intimacy, exploring

TP: great to hear,

both of you familiar with gay tantra, william shindler, one of my favorites, recommend for any seeker of tantric path how well, beyond sexual components, spiritual development components, transliterated for people not versed in hinduism, sanskrit, or yoga

get a sense of what they would be signing themselves up for

interesting point made, astute sanskrit scholar, one of foremost folks to have facts straight, promoting idea, notion, false dichotomy

paraphrase, within divine marriage, channel divine masculine, divine feminine, whatever ratio, share with partner or group

no reason people of same sex can’t feel obliged to consider themselves the complete circuit

no mention of gay in the tantras

temples sculptures, you see female bisexuality in service to men

have you explored or found interesting artwork, statues, classical tantra, guidance for people of diverse sexualities to explore these archetypes, energies in same sex context

S: tantra, oral tradition, guru to disciple, sexual aspects, less overt, less widespread, left handed path, less widely known, haven’t come across much in ancient writings, not scholar

not much written reference, studied with rudy balantime, swami rama, india, background in tantras, rudy bisexual, late 70s, tantra tradition see shiva shakti as symbolic, not literal,

man and woman can embody, so can to men, two women, inner alchemy, not matter what our plumbing, embody, all aspects of gender, express in love making, no matter gender of partner

exercises, meditations, inner marriage, inner shiva/shakti

Z: agree with everything, different dimension, concept of queer erasure in history, so often queer love is seen as counter/dangerous to narrative of normal society, to different degrees in different cultures, my own personal historical knowledge, from western tradition, prechristian cultures, also a lot of cultural differences the way we talk about relationships, queer love relationship would perhaps be quite different

spoken about quite differently , modern readers, may see or understand what is being written,

the story of achelles, partner, long stories about these too, never referred to them as fact they had sex, lovers per se, so often express their love for one another, brotherly love, comrades in arms

kind of like, from a historical perspective, how do we read history, to what degree are we imposing on history

missing from what’s been written, complicated topic

experience of tantras, not much written down, aware at least in tibetan context, guru disciple relationship, incredibly intimate, seldom written down

tibetan contenxt, patriarchal, male teacher, male student, would not be surprised, if using sexual energy as one of transmissions of teaching

homosexuality in tibetan monasteries well documented, not in ancient times, last 100 years, more exposed to the world

definitely happening, question of how do it get spoken about

TP: thank you so much, so well said, maybe somebody has been studying, great project for anybody who’s got researchto

lesbian desire in ancient and modern india, high on my book list, hope that will shed some light on good stuff

it breaks my heart when I hear people say, I want to do tantra but it’s only for straight people

curious about, what is the tantra community scene, millieu like in canada, different laws around sex work, cannabis, maybe other entheogens, a bit of a report on if anything very interesting about cultural climate, setting your in, insight into that life style there

S: started life in us vietnam vet, fell in love with vancouver in late 80s, smitten by city

90, still in love with city as years ago

somewhat more permissive culture

cannabis, tacitly accepted,

laws about sexuality, less enforced

hasn’t been kind of religious fervor that often occurs in us around laws around sexual behavior

erotic massage, began in berekley, felt safe, here feel even safer

appreciate that aspect of our culture here

Z: I would say, also in terms of sex work laws in canada, we’re currently scandanavian model, not illegal to sell sex work, somewhat illegal to market, buy, anything beyond selling is considered illegal

vancouver pd, statements, don’t enforce bilays pertaining to sex work, definitely see it quite differently,

not an idea system, decriminalization, main ideal target, overall

generally find, I feel much more comfortable being here than in america

more pacific northwest, more people from seattle, portland from anywhere in eastern canada, even alberta

can’t speak for rest of canada, some folks doing gay tantra in toronto,

a little bit happening in montreal as well too, it’s happening, it feels like most of the gay tantra work is still happening in other parts of the world

men in touch, also on forefront, canada as whole, doesn’t yet feel like a bastian, so speak of gay tantra

S: moved up from california, quite a bit less advanced around alternate spirituality, new map, tantra, has really changed in last 10 years,

going through facebook, social media,

part of whole west coast culture

southern california

vancouver very much part of that

put down, all the fruits and nuts roll west,

west coast much more progressive, in canada as well as us

TP: good to know

people up there already make some use of that intel, hoping that canada will lead north america in full legalization of sex work, know of efforts to keep rocking that boat,

I was a little bit more excited than I should have been, fine print, not friendly to both sides of transaction, consumer buyer, sex buyer, consumer of erotic services

lobbying, grass roots stuff, ?

S: in general we have to really hand it to the women, women in sex work, activist, most vocal, done the most to even get us this far, continues, women are most severely impacted by sex work laws, urgent crisis and need, safety livelihoods

Z: pushback, people are pushing the govt

if it’s every gonna happen in canada, be with more progressive govt

sex work law is always kinda not most important, not on minds of middle class, most people, base of these parties, unfortunately gets shelved

S: people hassled by police, walking the streets, neighbors call

other than that, when sex work is not in peoples faces who don’t want to see it, police not being proactive to go out and enforce it, different from us, entrapment

TP: fosta/cesta, tantrikas doing body work, whole spectrum everybody posting ads, backpage, craigslist, shut down, witch hunt, the internet policing of marketing on line, light touch, don’t bother you, hang shingle on line, not creating public nuisance, out of side out of mind

Z: have my own website, private practice, gaymassagevancouver.com

pretty obvious what it is I’m offering, not that cloaked, don’t feel afraid about that, more the effect is in, there’s still stigma, in our society around it, for example, would not want my neighbors knowing about the work I do, not illegal, but people can still make life very difficult

tread carefully around, not being public nuisance, not legal perspective, neighbors, land lords, have a lot of power over me as a renter

how much canada can have an effect on us

previous prime minister

decriminalized homosexuality, 1969

test lab for us, more progressive policies, us politicians, hmm looks like it’s working, maybe we’ll try it down here

TP: thanks for sharing, chills, wow, what an epic and brave, want to book up on history of that moment, rare, goes back, that was the magical year, a lot of good stuff happened

curious to what extent, language, tool kit, together, separately, neo tantra, extrapolating from modern gurus lineages, dance with translating teachings to offerings in modern world

adapt, relanguage, gay tantric perspective, notion of helping facilitate kundalini activation, initiation, riding the snake, wild ride of energy

why and how it erupts, orthodoxy around straight, tantric practices, not short cut but juicier way than sitting with hands folded, by yourself

how would you approach it, romance with kundalini shakti vibe

S: close to my heart, introduced to kundalini, Baba Muktananda, guru traveled world several times 70s and 80s

activating people’s kundalini, directly through shaktipat

had taste in that experience about kundalini awakening,

own that this is very phallocentric, perspective, like to view, with other gay men, entire energy body as phallus, penis, let energy build up from pelvis to crown

ejaculation out the crown of the head, fountain flow, energy thighs, genitals, through chakras, caress energy, up the middle, up and out

partners, massage table use that format, take people into new consciousness, kundalini as useful metaphor probably is that be definitely energy does shift, working with that intention, instead of conventional ejaculation

TP: really healing and sweet, people feel like they’re not gonna be missing out, or left out or excluded

heteronormative schematics

really encouraging

Z: my take on that is, just to kind of also balance that out, important to be having energetic experiences, also large portion of our work, different dimension, learning how to deepen intimacy, different quality, not usually as intensely sensory, energetic in that way, much more, other skills we’re trying to encourage, what does it mean to really be with somebody, be energetically kind of connected, recently last couple years, new concept of we space meditation, subtle states of shared consciousness, could include touch, not required

to me, my interest is more like, that feels to me like the real interesting part, one thing to have personal experience within own body, somebody’s massaging you, activating you, energetic release, beautiful experience, fruition of that, gone through kundalini awakening, has to have some sort of effect on us, when we moved the energy that way, can come into deeper states of clarity, stillness, presence,

fruition, communicates beyond just personal experience

TP: awesome, vagina monologues had pansexual tantra meed up in la, kundalini monologues, hopefully will take off some day, great time, different stories, so many, wow, lot of good stuff, definitely some horror stories too

Z: key, how do you create safe container for people to be experiencing these experiences, enough structure, to digest experience, otherwise, profoundly disorienting kind of experience

S: one of the tools learned early on in 70s, tantra workshop, same sex, all male tantra workshop, stan russell, tools used back then, eye contact, breathing together simple

80s, body electric, incorporate a bit of that, never as much as I wanted, eye gazing powerful practice in and of its self

we space meditation, promoting form of meditation

gazing into partners eyes, can be done on zoom

being with partner, holding eye contact, attempting to describe verbally, what’s going on

consciousness

quite an altered state that that leads to, ziji and I teaching

roots in tantra tradition, nothing to do overtly

connect deeply with romantic partners, total strangers

TP: beautiful thing, ancient practices techniques, occultism, cult of personality

west wants to secularize, messier, problematic, end up with more generalized, less cultural bound experience

adapted things like orgasmic meditation, may have had tantric training, indian gurus, to make it compute average multicultural western mind, strip away mythical archetypes, hindu mythological structures

we’ve salvaged in the west, western neo tantra, kundalini tradition, yoga asanas, general teaching, rarely offered, some experience, always seeking more, mudras, yantras, mantras, fundamental profound primal role, vibrations, sound, bija mantras, activating chakras, so much of that stuff, sometimes is very bound with religious dogma, archetypes, can also be more energetic, an anatomical energetic way of teaching

integrate or have reference upon mantras, mudras, in your offerings

S: tm, mantra based, Baba Muktananda kundalini awakening, om namah shivaya, so hum,

powerful, chanting of them find very transformative,

a little reluctant, people in west, wary, religiousity, hesitant to bring in too much, turn people off, almost always do oming, mantra, om

men in cirlce hug, ah sound, o, m, carry on for a while, quite wonderful, blend them, hear them unify over time

profound

Z: personal background with tantra, not in hindu, tibetan buddhist, a lot of esoteric tantric teachings within

takes quite a bit of, understanding, background structure, communicate, what this tradition is trying to say, very personally rewarding, feels like a lot of pitfalls, possible misunderstandings that can take place, generally speaking I find, my work I really informed by that, not explicitly referring specific deities, mantras, esoteric sadhanas, or whatever

S: creating sacred space, one of ingredients we invite men to join us in, letting go of ordinary chit chat, most contant non verbal, set out of busy urban life for whole weekend, movement touch, conscious breathing, nonordinary state of consciousness, I hope informs the rest of their lives, states of consciousness are available,

TP: definitely so many different schools all over the east, probably all agree on, path of integrating pleasure for spiritual development, does the work of a 1000 mantras, touch, centeredness in moment, sensate focus,

advanced yogis, alluded, quality of attention and focus is what you’re going for, the actual prescribed numbers of repetitions, grading on the curve, lowest common denominators, to make sure they get in the fold

Z: one of last few tibetan teachers, trained in pre chinese, tibet, very revered, visiting monastery, giving teachings, one nugget

two paths to liberation the path of pain and the path of pleasure, most people take the path of pain, just laughed,

we are all about exploring the path of pleasure

TP: that says it all, love that so much

so great so fun to have round table on this, invite you back anytime, more deeply, promote, things available, to broader community world wide through internet, good to promote that stuff, shout out, for website

Z: main website, menintouch.org, ignite festival, ignite-fest.com, each have own private practice, gaymassagevancouver.com, sequia, growthinghealthier.com

Corey Silverstein pic

Adult Industry Law in the Covid-19 Era and Beyond with Attorney Corey D. Silverstein TPP277

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In this episode I’m joined again by leading adult industry attorney Corey D. Silverstein for an exploration of the adult industry legal landscape in the Covid-19 era and beyond

About Corey:

Corey D. Silverstein is the managing and founding member of the Law Offices of Corey D. Silverstein, P.C d/b/a/ Silverstein Legal.  His practice focuses on representing many areas of the law that impact the adult industry.  His clientele includes hosting companies, affiliate programs, content producers, payment processors, website operators, dating websites, webcam sites, traffic brokers, social media websites and performers, just to name a few.  Mr. Silverstein regularly provides legal services related to: age verification and record keeping requirements (18 USC 2257), intellectual property (copyrights and trademarks), the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, the Restore Online Shopper’s Confidence Act (ROSCA), Federal Trade Commission (FTC) compliance, first amendment / free speech, obscenity, corporate law, criminal defense, internet law, domain disputes and various other areas of the law.  Mr. Silverstein is an acclaimed litigator and dispute resolution specialist. His practice also concentrates on complex contracts, business structure, and business formation.  Mr. Silverstein prides himself in providing prompt and aggressive representation tailored to each of his clients’ individual needs.  Mr. Silverstein is regularly featured in adult industry periodicals such as AVN and XBIZ and has been quoted and published in mainstream media including the New York Times, FOX News, MSNBC, the Miami Herald, the Washington Post, the Detroit News and the Associated Press.  Mr. Silverstein is also a regular speaker at conferences throughout the world (United States, Canada, Colombia, Netherlands) and has made countless presentations related to topics and issues that affect the adult industry and online marketplace.  Amongst his numerous professional affiliations, Mr. Silverstein is a member of the First Amendment Lawyers Association (FALA). Myadultattorney.com is a website dedicated to the representation of adult industry clientele. Mr. Silverstein can be reached through Myadultattorney.com or by email at corey@myadultattorney.com. Mr. Silverstein can also be contacted by telephone at 248-290-0655.

My Non Verbatim Show Notes: 

CS: been in adult entertainment industry approx 15 years, law firm dedicated to adult ent, represent clients in more than 13 countries, harder in covid19 era to get with clients, crazy time period, government assistance package, funds used up, sba tapped allotment, provisions in the sba loan apps in essence disqualified certain adult entertainment, lawsuit filed in MI, strip club challenging constitutionality

phone ringing off the hook, issues coming in from all over the place

performers some never been busier, some can’t pay bills

Michelle from FSC, horrendous personal ordeal, suffering, being separated from families, wild right now

TP: dualities of different opportunities, liabilities, emergent properties, even preppers realize they have all these holes in their ship, didn’t factor in

xbiz newsletter, Utah legislation, warning label

CS: utah bill did become law, even though gov didn’t sign

telling sign, gov wanted nothing to do with

conversations with clients, each person needs to consult with own counsel

so poorly written, difficult time finding people to comply, virtually mandates you admit your content may be obscene

ridiculous

if someone does get fined, suspect pretty quick, constitutional lawyer pick up the challenge, unconstitutional

poorly thought out provision, state of utah, substantial religious motivations, shouldn’t surprise you, nothing new, unbinding declaration porn is health crisis

another reminder, always someone out there with an agenda to try to politicize adult entertainment

TP: web application firewall, not possible geo fence state ip ranges,

CS: uk age verification law, not hold, dead

TP: can’t geofence ip ranges for a specific united state, terms and conditions, not allowed to access website if resident of this state, if you do, violating terms, you can’t really enforce that, not using mechanism, does that have any protection

CS: don’t think answer to utah law, is to contract a way out of it, way its written takes presumption all adult content is obscene, have to label site as such, don’t see any way around it, someone will challenge as unconstitutional, wouldn’t take position to try to contractually limit it

there is some technology out there to ban state traffic, acts as admission you believe content obscene

already have federal obscenity test, articulated by us supreme court, as much as utah would like to define obscene content, eliminate adult entertainment as they see it, federal case law differs

TP: clarity on terms, realizing I take for granted they’re gonna think everything is obscene, operating on their terms,

CS: gotta read language very carefully, want you to write statement, adult content harmful to minors, whatever exact language is, utah once again went way to far, silly, nothing more than some politicians…want to run for office often say a lot of things, crack down on this/that, promise part of far right, curb back pornography, very telling, governor wouldn’t sign it

TP: bill in california, would impose dmv style license or food handlers license exam for anyone in adult entertainment activities, cam models, porn shooots, all forms of sex workers, what’s your take on that

CS: ab 2389, scarlet letter provision, state of california, article in xbiz, wrote about this topic, bill that would prohibit adult entertainers/performers unless received certificate of training completing regarding employment rights

originally language said needed valid business license, would have required adult entertainers to go to state of ca, proof took course, fill out application, fee, finger print, state directory of adult entertainers being held by state of ca

possiblyi one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen,

reminded of scarlet letter, young lady who was alleged of adultery, required to run around with giant letter stapled on her

when I see statutes like this come out, who even thinks this stuff up

originally two supporters, one of them dropped out, backlash was massive

quickly amended it, has not become law as of yet, I don’t think it will pass

ca already had wars with adult entertainment industry in the last couple of years, not sure they want to end up in courts with this one, hopeful common sense will make them realize this is just a stupid idea

can understand, state of ca, wants adult entertainment workers educated, don’t see how its their right to mandate education

not a supporter, horrible for industry

for individual rights, think this is a massive step backwards

question true motivation, politicians behind this thing

this bill has not passed

lot of laws…get proposed never become actual laws

TP: interview with several officers several of the high ranking folks at the international entertainment adult union, original source of pressure on legislators to collaborate on crafting the language for this, govt, hammer that only sees nails, boilerplate language and strategy, compelling people to dox themselves, trusting gov to have digital honey pot database, hacker dream come true to exploit, data breech, applicable privacy laws, you’d never want to give them more information than they already have to do their own work to try to collect

spirit of it, opinion, I believe they adult performer advocacy committee has an industry voluntary stamp of approve for their standard of set rights, education or performers, website production house does their training, complies with their list, that’s where you want to go, industry self policing to standards that are worked out between actual stakeholders, not involving gov agencies, conflicts of interest, slow, ineffectual

CS: industry filled with a lot of different trade organizations, tremendous work, amazing results, free speech coalition, woodhull freedom foundation

I wasn’t there, don’t know what was going on behind the scenes, in front…never get the whole story

don’t think this was thought out well

not saying anyone had bad intent, suggesting this wasn’t thought out very well

when it comes to adult entertainment, it’s all about free speech,

rules regulations, certiications, another steop closer that you’re walking on top of people’s first amendment rights, always urge tremendous amount of caution

gov should be talking to trade orgs

listened …more to industries ideas regarding 2257 we wouldn’t be a 15 year court battle, however many years

goes both ways

in this particular case, no doubt…as to what this thing can do, …tramples first amendment

hard time to believe any adult entertainment entrepreneur would support this bill

TP: gov just wants to take money, give an inch take a mile, unlike a lot of other industries, one of the few where regulators aren’t in revolving door with industry

anywhere expect to be collusion/corruption, perverse incentives

CS: big issues, lot of politicians want to talk about it, soap boxes…won’t have telephone conversation, won’t meet with actual sex worker…that’s the problem…heart of fosta/cesta, any sex worker on planet, ask whether done any good, answers gonna be no, 9 times out of 10, nothing new hear,

does it really help, does it change anything on the ground, it doesn’t what’s what we’re seeing with fosta/cesta

brilliant lawyers involved [fosta/cesta] case, successful in court of appeals, message to trial court, sex workers have a legitimate argument, deserve day in court…hoping…more victories

TP: monkey wrentch in gears of court procedings, coronavirus, futurism mode, what do you think prospects are, whore-archy, come together organize, sex worker outreach project, doing fantastic work, could you imagine that this economic collapse/crisis after effects long term could their be an impetus to fight back against prohibition of sex work in general, reverse backlash

I could see a lot of people going into sex work, people who never would have thought about this before, have to do, because its the only thing people are paying for

CS: here’s the thing, simple fact…you can continue to pass ridiculous laws, base them on whatever you want to base them on, fact is, sex workers…not going to stop, fosta/cesta ill conceived

covid19 era, totally different world, people really should be exercising social distancing, limiting contact with other human beings…sex industry probably greatly been affected as well…notion, thought, this is where gov is wrong, that they can just keep passing laws and that’s someone gonna stop it isn’t gonna work, that’s not who you solve problems

other countries throughout the world that have legalized prostitution, that have legalized different forms of sex work that here in the us are illegal…seen crimes against sex workers with proper legalization/protocols, actually much safer

getting into issue, reality, politics, agendas, belief systems not based on fact, religious beliefs or whatever

I don’t see sex work necessarily going away, disappearing, do believe pandemic has hurt that industry very much…responsible people should be social distancing…minimize contact with other human beings…stop the spread of this aweful virus

when this is all over…getting back to normal…don’t think the sex work industry is a gonna skip a beat..

TP: new baby boom, 9 months from the vaccine roll out

CS: pregnancy through the roof, divorce through the roof, people married forever never had to spend this much time together in their lives…now they’re getting to know

TP: internet bandwidth, 5g tin foil hat, people got their netflix, zoom

[

CS: netflix has admitted, changed policies, limited…people have to make tough decisions to protect their networks, don’t fault them, probably a good thing proactive

TP: if you’re savy and healthy you could really ethically capitalize on new niches of oppportunity, survivors and winners are gonna be the big winners, hopefully not just bailed out fortune 500

crypto, stable coins taking up market share

any thoughts on state of crypto for adult

gonna be stress tested by covid era as well

CS: crypto is and continues to be a long term play, don’t believe crypto will be running the world over night

icos folded up, shit coins, a lot of those fold up and go away

adult crypto continues to be accepted,

if you follow wall street, crypto now accepted, mutual funds, canadian stock market, mainstream legit financial branches accepting crypto, continue to be excellent tool for adult, any adult business needs to consider their future with crypto, have to have as potential option, still believe in it

a lot of junk out there, bad players, but industry has been weeding those out

look at dozens if not hundreds of “coins” that have basically disappeared, that’s not the worst step

crypto will continue to grow in adult space

learn about it, understand, don’t have to be afraid of

old school politicians want you to think crypto is a bad thing

crypto currency, blockchain can be used for so much more

big growth as more people..less intimated by it

bitcoin…still off all time high…tremendous amount of growth potential

TP: proving itself out more and more everyday,

thoughts on libra

CS: I don’t think libra’s gonna work, don’t think you can call it a cryptocurrency

are they using blockchain technology on the backend, yeah, do I consider it a cryptocurrency no

I won’t use it

google plus,

TP: in recycling bin of time

CS: think about how many people who don’t have debit cards, local branch of bank is closed…because covid…crypto currency never closes ever

TP: coins are hygienic as you could ever get

CS: bitcoin article, they use gold coin with b and dollar sign, stop doing that…segment of people that thinks it’s a real thing…no how it works…hopefully people will see past that

TP: earn it act

CS: end of the world!

Longer conversation, probably gonna have to dedicate more of a conversation, lot of history, premise of bill, as of right now…website can benefit from section 230, earn it act wants to do…flip that around…as opposed to automatic section 230 immunity you would have had to “earn it”

problem is…not entirely clear on what exactly companies would have to do to earn it

sets back free speech on internet tremendously

section 230, internet companies cannot be held liable for positing of users, now though…when you change that around, …onus on internet companies to start…monitor/police content…cut at the heart of what section 230 is supposed to do…in terms of freedom of speech

gov…access to encryption, a little new still, no one is completely clear…on what they’re asking for

require encryption but they have the key…terrifying…

act itself needs to be watched very carefully

anyone in IT business, search engine…online store…

need to be very careful about, need to be watching it

companies now fighting it

there’s gonna be a lot of resistance…big companies, facebook, etc. I think they’ll be fighting it hard…but…some will support it

don’t think this is good

another example of attacking free speech on internet, policing content on the internet, don’t think that’s good at all

internet…greatest inventions we’ve made

in this instance…start getting into this position, service providers responsible for content users post, going down that slippery slope

TP: could you imagine there would be a proactive constitutional amendment to explicitly protect strong encryption

CS: constitutional amendment, no

TP: just precedent set?

CS: we have to keep protecting section 230, anybody who attacks section 230 is attacking the IT industry, attacking free speech on the internet

wake up, strongly take position, no we don’t want more holes being cut in section 230

earn it act, highly based on sexual exploitation of minors, that’s fine they’re saying that’s what it’s for, absolutely agree that’s an important issue, the way they’re doing it…like taking a bazuka to eliminate an ant hill

just doesn’t make any sense

gov has to get smarter

age of internet people are smarter

reading, want to know about these laws

years ago gov had it a lot easier to slip things into bills

big believer in free and open internet

TP: thank you so much, covered so much material, invigorating

very reassuring, thank you so much for doing all the work that you do, on behalf of free speech for all, adult entertainers/performers, industry ecosystem

closing thoughts

CS: everybody stay safe, be smart, take care of love ones, make sure you’re doing the best you can in terms of social distancing, each person can do just a little bit to help stop the spread

myadultattorney.com

twitter, myadultattorney

email directly corey (at ) silversteinlegal (dot com)

 

Empowering Sex Workers in East Los Angeles with Alejandra Aguilar Avelino TPP184

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Alejandra Aguilar Avelino Pic

In this episode I’m honored to be joined by Alejandra Aguilar Avelino, an advocate, educator and service provider at the East Los Angeles Women Center. We met there recently at a Sex Workers Outreach Project event and she gave a moving speech to explain a piece of art she created in solidarity with the victims of sexual violence.  Her extensive experience in community support work is truly profound and she shares some very deep and intense insights on the intersections of religion, sexuality, economics, and politics.

We explore the efforts and potential to organize male clients of sex workers  to show more solidarity and do more to support the health and well being of sex workers, and she shares some of her hopes and dreams for expanding the scope of services and outreach in the future.

I was very grateful to learn from her and to share a passion for improving the outcomes and quality of lives for sex workers through their whole life cycle. I’m hoping that her work and that of her peers and colleagues will be well financed so they can carry on doing such important work!

Please visit:

https://www.elawc.org/

https://www.facebook.com/elawc/

Alejandra Aguilar Avelino immigrated to the United States from her native Michoacán Mexico when she was eight years old. Alejandra has more than 16 years of experience in the field of Community Education. Alejandra’s beginnings were with Planned Parenthood Los Angeles as a Promotora Comunitaria. Alejandra had the honor to serve as Secretary and Chair of ALIANZA, the Los Angeles Caucus on HIV/AIDS in Los Angeles County.Currently Alejandra is the lead health educator, HIV counselor and support group facilitator at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center where she does HIV Navigation services. . Alejandra also provides support services to HIV-positive women and is an active member of several community planning bodies dedicated to the empowerment, health and well being of people. Alejandra has presented in several conferences at local and state level. Some of Alejandra’s passions are continuous learning, the empowerment of Latina Women, and she fights tirelessly against Gender Violence and Reproductive Justice. In her spare ?me Alejandra enjoys spending time with her family, hiking, reading and expanding her own small online business which she also uses as a tool to help other women reach economic independency.

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin welcome to Tantra Punk podcast episode number 184 I’m being joined by Alejandra Aguilar and she is the health educator an HIV counselor at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center and we sort of met at a recent sex workers Outreach project event on December 17th which was the international day to end violence against sex workers and there was a beautiful creative artistic kind of community building event that was held there and that was the first time I had visited the East last night Women’s Center and I was very thrilled to know that that the place exists and of the great work they’re doing there and Alejandra was hosting the event through the space and has some really powerful and moving things to say about the work that she does in support of women’s health in and sexuality health and education and so I was very moved and thought I’d reach out and see if she like to tell us a bit more about her personal background and about what the great works that are offered at the center there so I’ll a hundred thank you so much for joining me looking forward to hearing more about your story thank you thank you Ben and thank you for inviting me to be part of this podcast so as you mention my name is HIV counselor at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center and yeah I recalled that for a little over 42 years and one of the things that we always want to let people know is that this is a place where women silence is hurt for the community has their silence and so we decided to open up our space so that sex workers and their allies and come in and and have a safe place to meet and so I have been working in the field of HIV for in reproductive health for a little over 14 years and you know when I arrive to this country when I was 8 years old and one of the reasons why I’m very passionate about advocating for Women Health is because specially for the health and well-being and the needs of let me know is because many times Latinas specially Latinos who are aware of the services that might be out there to support them and so one of my one of my reasons for being an ally in in the the support of sex workers is to be able to avoid the needs of women especially one of the things that I did was I was a child care provider even though I was a child myself I used to babysit that the children of many sex workers women who were immigrants who worked up at sex workers and so I got to see a lot of the needs that a lot of the new show of the women and definitely a lot of them are children and so you know as I was getting older I decided to to look into this route of being of service to to the community by advocating for the needs of your penis growing up I got to see how special immigrant women for sexual abuse that shows fault interpersonal violence and definitely sexual explotation and when I started working at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center I thought this is perfect I get to work for an organization that is aligned with my beliefs and here I am 14 years into providing Services Organization advocating for the woman’s name well that is so powerful and thank you so much for sharing that and specially about your personal background ATS really moving to me I know that there that there is a lot of really strong feminist history and in feminist movement history around women sexual health and and support services and also and sort of sort of vaguely aware of different tensions that there have been within the feminist movement around 7 is sewer or not as supportive of sex workers or of women who were involved in the adult industry and some some who maybe are more supportive some curious if you have had to navigate any of those those politics within the women within the women’s movement about the sort of taboo subjective of the sex industry not necessarily you know I am very fortunate to be in this organization I’m very fortunate to have a strong network of providers that believe in advocating for everyone and when we say everyone it means every single person regardless of what they’re definitely here at the women’s center we do not see people for what they do we see them for who they are and so when we see when we see you know a sex worker we see them for who they are first and foremost a human being have to keep for them or what you would like and definitely no I haven’t encountered any of that it does not mean that it’s not the doesn’t accept them pretty sure there’s so many people that have encounter with you but I myself have not I’m really glad to hear that because I got that Vibe definitely that there was no judgment and no no sort of distance or or or judgment you about about that because it is so it is so much a part of life and people want to ignore it or people want to just hiding from it but it’s it’s a real serious issues I appreciate it very much that that you hold that space and and I want to thank you for doing that so if you could help us understand a bit about what the the most vital needs are of those those women who are doing work in the sex industry what are some of the things that people should know about as far as what they face on a daily basis and even ways that that people who are maybe just wanting to support them where are they they want to be allies how they can also be supportive but would definitely I cannot speak for everyone but I can’t I am able to speak for those who I have been fortunate and humble enough to provide services doing these are the Immigrant Latinos who work in the bars on the country has most of the time you asked about their needs what their needs are definitely there’s a lot of me to to provide them with resources resources and when I say resources what kinds of resources and support that they need to let them know about the right and to let them know that if they have been abused molested in any way that there is are places that can help them if they need just a space where they can just feel safe that there’s such a space about what we hope to who provides many of the women that we service the well-being overall well-being we are always concerned about their health their physical health or emotional health because we know that it can take a toll on their health specially those who work at night all we know that is if it can be difficult for them to to take care of that their help because the majority of them are also mothers and because they are mothers you know many times Latinas put the needs of their own meat how can I say it they put their needs before the needs of anyone else and they last one but they’re nice and so I want to advocate for them we also want to let them know that they have rights we hope to educate them about the right within the women that we service some of them are hiv-positive and so will support them we support them by providing resources for their help for them so that they can receive the services well thank you very much again for doing that work in something that I that I have been made very much aware of by my association with women who who would be considered those very strong feminist critique of the patriarchal economic structures and just the way capitalism works and how how this Empire is really built on on its own built on the backs of immigrant labor and and and from what you’re saying it’s also built on the bodies of the sex workers who who serve a lot of different types of male laborers and I’m wondering what if you care to share from your personal perspective what are some observations are inside sore or strong feelings you may have around what the what the role of men who may be there maybe they are sex buyers or maybe they are temps or maybe they are you know what and then you can any level of that economy do you ever have the opportunity to to Enlighten them or two to help them become more active in doing the support work for the for the women or what what is your feeling about the men who are just kind of you don’t hear a lot about the John’s or the Pimp C male a male and get you component we are thinking by myself a big advocate for making change in our communities mobilizing one of the one of the things that I do is when I am able to speak to groups of men and provide them with information writing with resources to do is to let them would like for them specially if they are consumers of the services of the women who are sex workers Michael is for them not to think of the women as object to know that there’s a story behind them that there that these women might have gone through many struggles am I making sense yes this is amazing I love to hear it to hear more about it cuz I feel like it’s so lacking it’s so lacking in that people actually try to educate them and whether it’s about using condoms or or being just mine. I’m being respectful this is Range Community and to use their voice to Advocate from them as well to use whatever privilege they have as meant to protect them to advocate for them that’s definitely one one of our pools and one of the things that we hope to accomplish is for for men to go beyond those gender roles that they are putting the moment they are born we want them to understand that they can break out of that box I agree with you yes wow so if that that thank you so much for sharing those insights that they’re really really touches my my heart and soul because I feel like I’m as myself as a sex worker myself I’ve been mistreated and abused and certainly I would have loved for the very wealthy the wealth of the wealthier of my clients to to be giving back and supporting nonprofit organizations that actually create a better life and more resources 400 why wouldn’t you why wouldn’t you give back to to like a trade Association it was helping you have a good experience in helping you get your needs met so hopefully yeah I’m excited to hear about what you’re doing over the other people will do that kind of Outreach as well so if we could talk a bit about the I feel like it’s it would be important to give some context for people listening to this what what the scope of sexual assault really looks like from your perspective you’re really seeing and I again am I feel very honored to speak with you knowing that you’re you’ve chosen to be putting yourself in a position to have so much exposure and really be very empathetic and very compassionate towards people who are in times of Crisis and some of the the most extreme trauma and current crisis so you could help to sensitize the listeners of this podcast to do some what it what is sort of typical cycle is when you have someone to say come in for services who is in trauma or crisis and in kind of what whatever is appropriate you know for you to share but that I think would be good for us to understand that means we started in 1976 and actually disorganization begin you know it was first bilingual confidential 24 hour 7 days a week crisis hotline to be able to service and provide support to survivors of sexual assault what we do is we have a hotline and call if they have just been assaulted molested or phrase taking cold even if it happened many years ago in another country we provide supporting the support looks something like this we we do Hospital accompany me to go to the hospital to provide support to the Survivor of rape and we’re able to see people all ages for survivors from a baby to someone well over the age of 90 we see that again we see them for who they are we see them as human beings Survivor and we are basically there to support them we allow them to have a safe safe space to come in and speak support when and if they’re ready mix someone is ready and they would like to come in and receive support we can provide them with counseling therapy and again we never tell them what to do we are there in their healing journey in the journey to heal I said we’re walking hand-in-hand with them so where’s that the healing path and soul Moana singing about in 2016 I remember in 2016 we provided services to over 10,000 women and children on the hotline movie about 2,200 called so we’re pretty busy if ever since that Open Door hotline has never closed and twice a year would provide training for people to become sexual assault advocate so that they can help survivors they can do hospital but also so that they get the keys for the needs of survivors important so after all of this exposure that you and your colleagues and peers with organization in and near the community of people that you’re connected with her your allies in Von forcement in the justice system and that the hospital system and the the sword I guess there’s also the social services and Family Services sectors of thumb of the county and in local local governments I’m curious if you could talk about some of the powder and some of the insides whatever you’ve been able to kind of a phone some conclusions you may have arrived at just about to the patterns of abuse and where you feel like the most effective interventions can occur on the preventative side of this issue how to do there’s definitely a lot to do but we definitely one of our one of them nothing’s that needs to happen to be able to to end sexual assault and domestic violence definitely HIV we need to end violence against women and homophobia swell we definitely know that if we end violence against women we end homophobia we are very well and then into the HIV epidemic we are definitely going to see Alright by very much agree with that and tell me what comes to mind from me for my personal experience in for my studies and I love to hear what you had what you would have to stay from your perspective Which is far more I would say far from a highly developed than mine because of the position that you that you’ve taken up and and I would say with what are your thoughts on the you mentioned machismo that’s something that I’m interested to hear more about what what that where that comes from and what you would how you would advise people to deconstruct that that sort of some aspect of violence in and then also alcohol and Andrew role that you feel that plays or substance abuse and how that feeds into the violence well it’s definitely a collaborative effort of everyone social service providers to law enforcement to every single every single person has a responsibility to an hour in one of the things we have are you aware of basically the women from targeted community wengage and Outreach and education and what they do is they increase awareness of sexual assault and resources and domestic violence victims and their families but they also bring awareness and so one of the things that that we have here in our organization in mind you all women that can be women that are actively working a sex workers women for HIV positive Housewives just about anyone and they go through this training where they learn about their culture how their cultural experiences shape their identity with a lot of focus on the Latino cultures and Value Inn in the experiences that they might have had growing up and still one of the things that we encourage them don’t is to look at what what are the values of culture that contribute in a positive way to to have better communities to to make them feel safe right it in to make a change in the world and to keep those we encourage them to look at the one that can be toxic that can be done that perpetuate and we encourage them to to look at both and decide which ones they want to keep which ones they want to transmit to other generation so we start with that beautiful well thank you for doing that as well in I’m curious if we could go to the next question which is the just to the prevalence of alcohol and domestic violence I think is pretty well well known that a lot of sexual assault and violence happened in in circumstances that are sort of fueled by drunkenness and I’m curious if you have thoughts on to substance abuse and alcoholism and how that how that affects the work that you do and the the the women that you support but we do know that it art again you know what we need people were there as we don’t we do not follow up a model of trauma-informed that means we are not going to shame people if they have issues with substance abuse know we can help them try to get to the root of why they’re they’re using or why they’re drinking rice I can tell you definitely my perspective from what I saw growing now I can tell you that issues with alcoholism are very prevalent with the with the women who work in the bar and the emptiness sex workers because that is part of their work in order to make a living they have to drink with the client and so many women that start working in the barn and the emptiness when they start working in the bar on the time peanut they have never you know in their life they have never had a drink but once they start working out of their job it’s how they make that living and some many of them develop alcoholism that’s one of the things that I saw and so you know if you if you asked to do it that many have a history of abuse or trauma that it don’t even know that they have this history of abuser, they don’t even know what to name those feeling you know very bad idea that depression you have a very difficult situation for for the person you know when one of these again that I hate that I was able to see I was able to see because of the lack of support and empowerment and resources available to this woman I saw in a bunch of this day I still seen any of them Works who no longer work in the calendar because there was no support there was no one to assist them teach them how to how to make a budget how to save the money or even how to invest some of them and not only that but a lot of them ended up with issues of alcohol yeah I hear you and that actually comes at least to my next question really which is about what you see as some of the the positive outcomes and the I would say to be clear I don’t believe that it’s wrong to be a sex worker ever see for myself fight I am the part of the six work industry so there are some people would say well you just need to go to church and you need to quit the lifestyle and and and you need to leave it all behind you which I’m not I’m not here to say is this is right or wrong but but I will I will say that I’m very interested in what what six I think about the concept of a success story or someone who has overcome substance abuse or alcoholism and if they choose to remain active in the sex industry but I from a healthier place or if they choose to move beyond that I’m curious what you what are some of the pathways that you have facilitated or witnessed of of women who have become really empowered either is former sex workers or or or sort of sex workers in recovery what are some of the success stories that you would say that you’ve been a part of each other’s privacy and confidentiality if I can tell you that there’s this particular woman who is what after she became involved and after she was able to gather with other women saw other women like herself all about the right person for most of the human bean learn that there is nothing to be ashamed of learn to speak remind learn to Advocate Parker cell I was able to see an amazing transformation this is a person who now is able to speak up for herself this is someone who is able to negotiate pay for sex which I think it’s amazing to see this is someone who if she feels that someone is making her feel ashamed because of what she does she’s able to speak up she doesn’t know her head as she used to be for not just that but her priority priority priority herself above anything else in that include making better decisions when it comes to drinking that our decisions for her mean eating what you drink tea not not drinking as much as she used to before that you will forget to take her medication doesn’t make sense that is In N safety she she has been able to say she now has a savings account which is tremendous you know because now she’s planning or for the years I had to fight absolutely well I’ll take you out to other women beautiful well that’s that’s very good to hear and thank you again for doing that and just maybe a couple few more questions one will be going back to the the other half of the equation which is the the male role in and all of this into client role so I sounds like you’re yeah you have a lot of experience working with women who were in that that culture of the bar and cantina world and so like you said that there will be drinking is just part of the job and I’m curious if you if you could reach into the heart and soul of the the male clients and understand where they’re coming from and if they would maybe intergenerational trauma or or personal issues that they may be dealing with in and if we were to make if we were to all be working together to create more empowered and more conscious and then we’re healthy men and male clients and then maybe they would maybe this sounds ridiculous I guess but but I would love to see a world where where sex work is is legal and where people clients and and and service providers could meet up at a healthy juice bar or something or like a farmers market or something you know where it’s it’s not always in the context of of alcohol and that kind of sort of sector and so I’m just curious if when you think about this and when you work in this in this world if you do you have any advice for four men who are just maybe this sort of their kind of being set up or something I don’t know why I don’t know what you how you feel about just the whole the nature of that in of that that world of the the bar scene in the all that wouldn’t be able to provide education you know when I go out and we have those messages that week we share with with menopause sensitive to have healthy relationships with all the people in their life okay and do would you say while we’re on the topic of the Mennonite and I appreciate it and it sounds like what needs to happen is that more more men need to step up and organize and do Outreach it’s you already sounds like you’re already very your hands are full working with women and it sounds like that would be good for more men to anybody listening who has that the resources or the means to to do more Outreach Two Men and hopefully that will that will happen and I would say I just want another question just while we’re on the topic is if you if you feel like there is do you feel like a lot of the men who are of War buying the sexual services at women are they are they not really functional in their in their their own marriages that are on family life and are they I guess I don’t know like I said the other is there anything you can say about about the profile or the sort of in the attitude or the State of Mind of the mail client server or are they just a lot of single man to hoodoo don’t have a wife and that therefore they had they feel like they have to get through the day but with a beer you know with getting some drinks and inviting some sex and again there is so much so much change that needs to happen in one of them against the things that I be all that needs to happen from what I saw you know growing up in a very traditional community at 8 I was born in Mexico and I grew up in the town I was very religious it was okay for men to go to a bar in to go to La Cantina to look to spend some time with women right because many of them felt have to ask for certain things from their wives or their girlfriends was disrespectful and so they grew up thinking that the women that worked in the bar in the Campina where it was okay to have certain things of them right certain sexual things or even just to drink with them right again that idea that the women that worked in the casino or less than the women that are at home but that should not be the case that we can community that there’s this idea that yeah I’m going to go to the bar I’m going to go to the one with her right or she will be willing to deliver for a Spur to do and I cannot ask my wife to do that because she’s a good wife or she’s a good woman or she’s going to get offended if I ask her to do certain things when it might be very well that her wife at home or at home is wishing he will do those things with her because of how she grew up in this box that she was playing through gender role that don’t ask for something sexual well your violence violence that that if you are a good wife you would not dare ask for any of that and so that’s one of the things that I’m very passionate about teaching women again we let you know when it’s okay to to look for pleasure it’s okay to have conversations with your partner about certain things it’s okay to explore as long as you are both okay in the end it’s okay to look for a relationship with someone who is not going to feel threatened if you ask for certain things for your own pleasure well that is really powerful and I appreciate you saying that that really means a lot that really helps me understand a lot better and I hope I hope we can move towards that and and I appreciate the work you’re doing to create that space to explore and understand and and change the is paradigm so you’re so another question I have for you which is kind of this kind of extraordinary but I like to I like to do you know what some people call a thought experiment where you just think about what obviously you have you have some budgetary constraints and you have people power constraints but if you and your team or your colleagues the people you work within your organization if you somehow we’re blessed with the resources and the even just to say you won the lottery or something absurd like that but it was just say you had you had really almost Limitless potential or and Empower even politically to say okay this is all of this is all of the wisdom that we have and these are the proposals that we have and and if you just had what what you need to talk about investment and whatnot so if there was a if there was a venture capital firm that says we really think what you’re doing is important and we feel like that there is a benefit to society to have you you all have more resources and really if you if you had almost Limitless budget what are some of the things that you would do to to accelerate and grow and expand you know your services in certainly how I mean I would love to see since having been to the place you know your location I would love to see myself I would love to see you have more more acreage you no more land and something like the weirdest El Centro Farm was there some place where you can have Community Gardens in actual herbal Gardens in and healing natural areas and places for meeting that we’re outside and there were also safe and also had security so that’s just kind of what comes to my mind but I’m curious what you would do or what you would sort of dream up if you had almost no limits to what you can imagine wow there’s so much that we will definitely do love I can tell you that with a bigger budget we will definitely be able to since we will not have waiting list for four clients to to enrolled into into a program but definitely one thing will be to to increase to provide more support for the women that are hiv-positive because of budget I’m talking about financial support very limited women are always left behind and yet they’re the ones that love to see more help women’s health programs that are more sex-positive that are inclusive of sexual trauma Empower women to advocate for their sexual health definitely expand more men’s healing talking circles where they can wear the men pink and strengthen the relationship that we would love to see that but definitely if there was no monetary restrictions more more a healing circles or for women where they can talk about their health advocate for the health including their sexual health awesome thank you so much for sharing and I’m hoping that all of your dreams will come true you’re suddenly during such important and if I don’t work in the community and so yeah I wish you absolutely the best moving forward and hopefully yeah we’ll see each other again and then more more collaboration will happen that will be mutually supportive within our communities do you have any closing words you’d like to share and then also do you want to share the website URLs and any other links or any other ways to connect that would be great bilingual 24-hour hotline anyone can reach this hotline 24/7 the number is 800 5856 231 once again is 800-585-6231 and our website is www.ladwp.com org once again is so absolutely yes sir I appreciate it’s been an honor and do you have any last closing words you like to say is just a call to action or or things that you feel like if if people knew in NC could hear this voice than they would they would they would want to step up and and I guess it was before we say that you are a 501 c 3 charitable non-profit so donations are tax-deductible am I correct that we are especially in need of support because we have the only shelter in the mission where people can can go if they have just been sexually assaulted or if they have just landed on the hospital and they’re afraid to go back home or back to where the perpetrator or abuser is and we definitely need a lot of support for that our women’s HIV program a lot of sports comidas up with some sort of supporting in the dollar if you can share our website with others or even our Facebook page elawc please go ahead and do so we will be very grateful thank you so much Alejandro I think that was a really good introduction to all of the the work you’re doing and I hope that’s a lots of good things come from this and hopefully we will have meet again and and maybe we can follow up again and have you back on sometime in the future talk about some new developments and hopefully there’s there will be a lot more a lot more great things happening in the future so thank you again for your time and we’ll be in touch okay bye bye thank you for listening to the touch of Honey Pot www.entrepreneur.com can cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temple in every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com Damas de

Futurizing the Public Policy of Sex Work with Devika the Techy Tantrika TPP183

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Devika Signh Pic

In this episode I’m joined again by dear friend and tantric comrade Devika the Techy Tantrika for a discussion about the future of public policy for sex workers, sex educators, sex technologists, and more. We explore our mutual fascination for the study of how sexuality is regulated by policy makers who seem to have decreasing interest in consulting with the populations their laws affect the most. An emergent property of our convo is the fleshing out of a sort of verbal white paper outlining the problems we’re facing in the sex industry and the innovative solutions that are rapidly evolving in the sex tech space.

Check out our first episode for more info on her personal backstory:

https://tantrapunk.com/open-source-intimacy-with-devika-the-techy-tantrika-tpp131/

About Devika:

Devika J. Singh/The Techy Tantrika is a Tantric Sex and Self-Relationship Coach as well as a Performess. Her diverse creative endeavours as well as her views on holistic sex, intimacy, self-relationship and self-care have culminated into the one-on-one online coaching practice she has today. Devika’s unique take on traditional and Neo-Tantric practices along with her continuous dedication to providing commentary on tech trends that affect the way we date and intimately connect shine through in her YouTube video series where she provides Tantric sex and dating advice to her audience.

You can find Devika’s YouTube sex+dating advice video series at youtube.com/thetechytantrika

Follow her Instagram at:
http://www.instagram.com/thetechytantrika

You can also find out more about her coaching practice and writing at devika-singh.com

Topics we discuss include:

  • the future of age verification regulation and innovations in blockchain tech
  • the hyper regulation of fosta/sesta
  • https://www.woodhullfoundation.org/
  • statistics of harm reduction in decriminalized sex industries
  • how criminalization of websites pushes sex workers back into the hands of pimps
  • the risks to sex workers increasing as regulations take away online reputation and client vetting systems
  • with more rights, sex workers can build more resilient safety nets
  • law enforcement is actually disempowered by fosta/sesta as they no longer have a places to gather evidence and conduct investigations
  • lessons from Nevada and Amsterdam sex work policy
  • December 17th International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers
  • Sex Workers Outreach Project USA
  • Sex Workers Outreach Project Los Angeles
  • Sex work as a layer in the “software stack” that is modern civilization
  • the need for tantra corporate retreats to better facilitate the intelligent flow of sexual energy for increase productivity and team building
  • sex workers do God’s work
  • involuntary celebates Vice article
  • how sex workers prevent violence by providing much needed sexual outlets for those who’s sexually needs are unmet in relationships
  • the value of polyamory community to open public discourse on alternative relationship models
  • the importance of consent and how healthy sex industries facilitate consent best practices
  • the agility of technology and the slow rate of change in government sectors
  • the need for tantra instructors to have the same protections and freedoms as spiritual and religious leaders
  • how those in the sex industry have to live double lives and hide their sexual identity to fit into mainstream society, maintain or apply for jobs, etc.
  • how current systems are outdated and barbaric
  • how open-source and peer-to-peer technologies are creating new dimensions of freedom and empowerment
  • the libertarian sentiment: “stater’s gonna state”
  • Caligula’s regulation and taxation of brothels in ancient Rome
  • the potential for technology to prevent insurrectionary street battles with police such as in the origins of the gay rights movement and the Stonewall Riots
  • the need for tech savy sexuality educators, service providers and policy makers in the Nevada blockchain city
  • crypto billionaries building crypto social infrastructure in Puetro Rico
  • the Silicon Valley of Crypto in Zug, Switzerland
  • Joe Lubin’s sex positive attitude towards Ameen Soliemani and SpankChain
  • the sexual economics of the wild west and the evolution of brothels
  • how sex workers have generated the revenue for municipal projects, public works, and civil services in gold rush town
  • the progressive sex work policies in Australia
  • the tragic irony of how sexual health has evolved, and public policy around sex work has devolved
  • advocating for natural birth control methods beyond the rhythm method
  • revitalizing ancient sexual health wisdom and practices
  • how sex workers are better qualified to teach sex ed and safer sex
  • the history of witch trials and burning
  • the demonization of midwives for empowering women to have sexual and reproductive sovereignty
  • the often unexamined and unacknowledged negative side effects of birth control pills
  • ancient yogini cults of India and the rebellion of tantric witches in India
  • how marginalized women such as widows, prostitutes, and those who’ve escaped abusive relationships are a force to be reckoned with when they organize and band together
  • differences between neo-tantra and classical tantra
  • how 2019 will be the year of the sex witch
  • yoni steam baths with Steamy Chick
  • how midwives often become referees in hospital birthing situations where mother’s are mistreated and misinformed
  • the power of women in crypto and blockchain
  • the women of crypto track at the crypto invest summit
  • the southern california blockchain community and Blockchain Beach meet up
  • financial feminism in the crypto space
  • the hypocrisy of law maker sex buyers who legislate against sex workers
  • reverse doxing
  • the Ashley Madison hack
  • the notion that high profile clients should give back to support the decriminalization, unionization, health benefits, and other rights and amenities for sex workers
  • the notion of the techno shaman and their roles and responsibilities in protecting and defending the global cyber village
  • if good people don’t master tech, only the bad people will
  • future visions for goddess temples where sex is earned through meaningful local service to the women and the health of their families and their full life cycles
  • the political economy of making love not war and how throughout history love has been suppressed to create less attached soldiers
  • the under-representation of women in tech and computer science
  • the depressing statistics on venture funding and C-level employment for females
  • how a world with more balanced access to funding and corporate authority is as yet unimaginable, but we anticipate it to be much healthier, more beautiful, safe, and equitable, most importantly for sex workers and the sex trade

 

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin welcome to Tantra Punk podcast episode number 184 I’m being joined by Alejandra Aguilar and she is the health educator an HIV counselor at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center and we sort of met at a recent sex workers Outreach project event on December 17th which was the international day to end violence against sex workers and there was a beautiful creative artistic kind of community building event that was held there and that was the first time I had visited the East last night Women’s Center and I was very thrilled to know that that the place exists and of the great work they’re doing there and Alejandra was hosting the event through the space and has some really powerful and moving things to say about the work that she does in support of women’s health in and sexuality health and education and so I was very moved and thought I’d reach out and see if she like to tell us a bit more about her personal background and about what the great works that are offered at the center there so I’ll a hundred thank you so much for joining me looking forward to hearing more about your story thank you thank you Ben and thank you for inviting me to be part of this podcast so as you mention my name is HIV counselor at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center and yeah I recalled that for a little over 42 years and one of the things that we always want to let people know is that this is a place where women silence is hurt for the community has their silence and so we decided to open up our space so that sex workers and their allies and come in and and have a safe place to meet and so I have been working in the field of HIV for in reproductive health for a little over 14 years and you know when I arrive to this country when I was 8 years old and one of the reasons why I’m very passionate about advocating for Women Health is because specially for the health and well-being and the needs of let me know is because many times Latinas specially Latinos who are aware of the services that might be out there to support them and so one of my one of my reasons for being an ally in in the the support of sex workers is to be able to avoid the needs of women especially one of the things that I did was I was a child care provider even though I was a child myself I used to babysit that the children of many sex workers women who were immigrants who worked up at sex workers and so I got to see a lot of the needs that a lot of the new show of the women and definitely a lot of them are children and so you know as I was getting older I decided to to look into this route of being of service to to the community by advocating for the needs of your penis growing up I got to see how special immigrant women for sexual abuse that shows fault interpersonal violence and definitely sexual explotation and when I started working at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center I thought this is perfect I get to work for an organization that is aligned with my beliefs and here I am 14 years into providing Services Organization advocating for the woman’s name well that is so powerful and thank you so much for sharing that and specially about your personal background ATS really moving to me I know that there that there is a lot of really strong feminist history and in feminist movement history around women sexual health and and support services and also and sort of sort of vaguely aware of different tensions that there have been within the feminist movement around 7 is sewer or not as supportive of sex workers or of women who were involved in the adult industry and some some who maybe are more supportive some curious if you have had to navigate any of those those politics within the women within the women’s movement about the sort of taboo subjective of the sex industry not necessarily you know I am very fortunate to be in this organization I’m very fortunate to have a strong network of providers that believe in advocating for everyone and when we say everyone it means every single person regardless of what they’re definitely here at the women’s center we do not see people for what they do we see them for who they are and so when we see when we see you know a sex worker we see them for who they are first and foremost a human being have to keep for them or what you would like and definitely no I haven’t encountered any of that it does not mean that it’s not the doesn’t accept them pretty sure there’s so many people that have encounter with you but I myself have not I’m really glad to hear that because I got that Vibe definitely that there was no judgment and no no sort of distance or or or judgment you about about that because it is so it is so much a part of life and people want to ignore it or people want to just hiding from it but it’s it’s a real serious issues I appreciate it very much that that you hold that space and and I want to thank you for doing that so if you could help us understand a bit about what the the most vital needs are of those those women who are doing work in the sex industry what are some of the things that people should know about as far as what they face on a daily basis and even ways that that people who are maybe just wanting to support them where are they they want to be allies how they can also be supportive but would definitely I cannot speak for everyone but I can’t I am able to speak for those who I have been fortunate and humble enough to provide services doing these are the Immigrant Latinos who work in the bars on the country has most of the time you asked about their needs what their needs are definitely there’s a lot of me to to provide them with resources resources and when I say resources what kinds of resources and support that they need to let them know about the right and to let them know that if they have been abused molested in any way that there is are places that can help them if they need just a space where they can just feel safe that there’s such a space about what we hope to who provides many of the women that we service the well-being overall well-being we are always concerned about their health their physical health or emotional health because we know that it can take a toll on their health specially those who work at night all we know that is if it can be difficult for them to to take care of that their help because the majority of them are also mothers and because they are mothers you know many times Latinas put the needs of their own meat how can I say it they put their needs before the needs of anyone else and they last one but they’re nice and so I want to advocate for them we also want to let them know that they have rights we hope to educate them about the right within the women that we service some of them are hiv-positive and so will support them we support them by providing resources for their help for them so that they can receive the services well thank you very much again for doing that work in something that I that I have been made very much aware of by my association with women who who would be considered those very strong feminist critique of the patriarchal economic structures and just the way capitalism works and how how this Empire is really built on on its own built on the backs of immigrant labor and and and from what you’re saying it’s also built on the bodies of the sex workers who who serve a lot of different types of male laborers and I’m wondering what if you care to share from your personal perspective what are some observations are inside sore or strong feelings you may have around what the what the role of men who may be there maybe they are sex buyers or maybe they are temps or maybe they are you know what and then you can any level of that economy do you ever have the opportunity to to Enlighten them or two to help them become more active in doing the support work for the for the women or what what is your feeling about the men who are just kind of you don’t hear a lot about the John’s or the Pimp C male a male and get you component we are thinking by myself a big advocate for making change in our communities mobilizing one of the one of the things that I do is when I am able to speak to groups of men and provide them with information writing with resources to do is to let them would like for them specially if they are consumers of the services of the women who are sex workers Michael is for them not to think of the women as object to know that there’s a story behind them that there that these women might have gone through many struggles am I making sense yes this is amazing I love to hear it to hear more about it cuz I feel like it’s so lacking it’s so lacking in that people actually try to educate them and whether it’s about using condoms or or being just mine. I’m being respectful this is Range Community and to use their voice to Advocate from them as well to use whatever privilege they have as meant to protect them to advocate for them that’s definitely one one of our pools and one of the things that we hope to accomplish is for for men to go beyond those gender roles that they are putting the moment they are born we want them to understand that they can break out of that box I agree with you yes wow so if that that thank you so much for sharing those insights that they’re really really touches my my heart and soul because I feel like I’m as myself as a sex worker myself I’ve been mistreated and abused and certainly I would have loved for the very wealthy the wealth of the wealthier of my clients to to be giving back and supporting nonprofit organizations that actually create a better life and more resources 400 why wouldn’t you why wouldn’t you give back to to like a trade Association it was helping you have a good experience in helping you get your needs met so hopefully yeah I’m excited to hear about what you’re doing over the other people will do that kind of Outreach as well so if we could talk a bit about the I feel like it’s it would be important to give some context for people listening to this what what the scope of sexual assault really looks like from your perspective you’re really seeing and I again am I feel very honored to speak with you knowing that you’re you’ve chosen to be putting yourself in a position to have so much exposure and really be very empathetic and very compassionate towards people who are in times of Crisis and some of the the most extreme trauma and current crisis so you could help to sensitize the listeners of this podcast to do some what it what is sort of typical cycle is when you have someone to say come in for services who is in trauma or crisis and in kind of what whatever is appropriate you know for you to share but that I think would be good for us to understand that means we started in 1976 and actually disorganization begin you know it was first bilingual confidential 24 hour 7 days a week crisis hotline to be able to service and provide support to survivors of sexual assault what we do is we have a hotline and call if they have just been assaulted molested or phrase taking cold even if it happened many years ago in another country we provide supporting the support looks something like this we we do Hospital accompany me to go to the hospital to provide support to the Survivor of rape and we’re able to see people all ages for survivors from a baby to someone well over the age of 90 we see that again we see them for who they are we see them as human beings Survivor and we are basically there to support them we allow them to have a safe safe space to come in and speak support when and if they’re ready mix someone is ready and they would like to come in and receive support we can provide them with counseling therapy and again we never tell them what to do we are there in their healing journey in the journey to heal I said we’re walking hand-in-hand with them so where’s that the healing path and soul Moana singing about in 2016 I remember in 2016 we provided services to over 10,000 women and children on the hotline movie about 2,200 called so we’re pretty busy if ever since that Open Door hotline has never closed and twice a year would provide training for people to become sexual assault advocate so that they can help survivors they can do hospital but also so that they get the keys for the needs of survivors important so after all of this exposure that you and your colleagues and peers with organization in and near the community of people that you’re connected with her your allies in Von forcement in the justice system and that the hospital system and the the sword I guess there’s also the social services and Family Services sectors of thumb of the county and in local local governments I’m curious if you could talk about some of the powder and some of the insides whatever you’ve been able to kind of a phone some conclusions you may have arrived at just about to the patterns of abuse and where you feel like the most effective interventions can occur on the preventative side of this issue how to do there’s definitely a lot to do but we definitely one of our one of them nothing’s that needs to happen to be able to to end sexual assault and domestic violence definitely HIV we need to end violence against women and homophobia swell we definitely know that if we end violence against women we end homophobia we are very well and then into the HIV epidemic we are definitely going to see Alright by very much agree with that and tell me what comes to mind from me for my personal experience in for my studies and I love to hear what you had what you would have to stay from your perspective Which is far more I would say far from a highly developed than mine because of the position that you that you’ve taken up and and I would say with what are your thoughts on the you mentioned machismo that’s something that I’m interested to hear more about what what that where that comes from and what you would how you would advise people to deconstruct that that sort of some aspect of violence in and then also alcohol and Andrew role that you feel that plays or substance abuse and how that feeds into the violence well it’s definitely a collaborative effort of everyone social service providers to law enforcement to every single every single person has a responsibility to an hour in one of the things we have are you aware of basically the women from targeted community wengage and Outreach and education and what they do is they increase awareness of sexual assault and resources and domestic violence victims and their families but they also bring awareness and so one of the things that that we have here in our organization in mind you all women that can be women that are actively working a sex workers women for HIV positive Housewives just about anyone and they go through this training where they learn about their culture how their cultural experiences shape their identity with a lot of focus on the Latino cultures and Value Inn in the experiences that they might have had growing up and still one of the things that we encourage them don’t is to look at what what are the values of culture that contribute in a positive way to to have better communities to to make them feel safe right it in to make a change in the world and to keep those we encourage them to look at the one that can be toxic that can be done that perpetuate and we encourage them to to look at both and decide which ones they want to keep which ones they want to transmit to other generation so we start with that beautiful well thank you for doing that as well in I’m curious if we could go to the next question which is the just to the prevalence of alcohol and domestic violence I think is pretty well well known that a lot of sexual assault and violence happened in in circumstances that are sort of fueled by drunkenness and I’m curious if you have thoughts on to substance abuse and alcoholism and how that how that affects the work that you do and the the the women that you support but we do know that it art again you know what we need people were there as we don’t we do not follow up a model of trauma-informed that means we are not going to shame people if they have issues with substance abuse know we can help them try to get to the root of why they’re they’re using or why they’re drinking rice I can tell you definitely my perspective from what I saw growing now I can tell you that issues with alcoholism are very prevalent with the with the women who work in the bar and the emptiness sex workers because that is part of their work in order to make a living they have to drink with the client and so many women that start working in the barn and the emptiness when they start working in the bar on the time peanut they have never you know in their life they have never had a drink but once they start working out of their job it’s how they make that living and some many of them develop alcoholism that’s one of the things that I saw and so you know if you if you asked to do it that many have a history of abuse or trauma that it don’t even know that they have this history of abuser, they don’t even know what to name those feeling you know very bad idea that depression you have a very difficult situation for for the person you know when one of these again that I hate that I was able to see I was able to see because of the lack of support and empowerment and resources available to this woman I saw in a bunch of this day I still seen any of them Works who no longer work in the calendar because there was no support there was no one to assist them teach them how to how to make a budget how to save the money or even how to invest some of them and not only that but a lot of them ended up with issues of alcohol yeah I hear you and that actually comes at least to my next question really which is about what you see as some of the the positive outcomes and the I would say to be clear I don’t believe that it’s wrong to be a sex worker ever see for myself I die in the part of the six work industry so there are some people would say well you just need to go to church and you need to quit the lifestyle and and and you need to leave it all behind you which I’m not I’m not here to say is this is right or wrong but but I will I will say that I’m very interested in what what 6 I think about the concept of a success story or someone who has overcome substance abuse or alcoholism in if they choose to remain active in the sex industry but I from a healthier place or if they choose to move beyond that I’m curious what you what are some of the pathways that you have facilitated or witnessed of of women who have become really empowered either is former sex workers or or or sort of sex workers in recovery what are some of the success stories that you would say that you’ve been a part of each other’s privacy and confidentiality if I can tell you that there’s this particular woman who is what after she became involved and after she was able to gather with other women saw other women like herself all about the right person for most of the human bean learn that there is nothing to be ashamed of learn to speak remind learn to Advocate Parker cell I was able to see an amazing transformation this is a person who now is able to speak up for herself this is someone who is able to negotiate pay for sex which I think it’s amazing to see this is someone who if she feels that someone is making her feel ashamed because of what she does she’s able to speak up she doesn’t know her head as she used to be for not just that but her priority priority priority herself above anything else in that include making better decisions when it comes to drinking that our decisions for her mean eating what you drink tea not not drinking as much as she used to before that you will forget to take her medication doesn’t make sense that is In N safety she she has been able to say she now has a savings account which is tremendous you know because now she’s planning or for the years I had to fight absolutely well I’ll take you out to other women beautiful well that’s that’s very good to hear and thank you again for doing that and just maybe a couple few more questions one will be going back to the the other half of the equation which is the the male role in and all of this into client role so I sounds like you’re yeah you have a lot of experience working with women who were in that that culture of the bar and cantina world and so like you said that there will be drinking is just part of the job and I’m curious if you if you could reach into the heart and soul of the the male clients and understand where they’re coming from and if they would maybe intergenerational trauma or or personal issues that they may be dealing with in and if we were to make if we were to all be working together to create more empowered and more conscious and then we’re healthy men and male clients and then maybe they would maybe this sounds ridiculous I guess but but I would love to see a world where where sex work is is legal and where people clients and and and service providers could meet up at a healthy juice bar or something or like a farmers market or something you know where it’s it’s not always in the context of of alcohol and that kind of sort of sector and so I’m just curious if when you think about this and when you work in this in this world if you do you have any advice for four men who are just maybe this sort of their kind of being set up or something I don’t know why I don’t know what you how you feel about just the whole the nature of that in of that that world of the the bar scene in the all that wouldn’t be able to provide education you know when I go out and we have those messages that week we share with with menopause sensitive to have healthy relationships with all the people in their life okay and do would you say while we’re on the topic of the Mennonite and I appreciate it and it sounds like what needs to happen is that more more men need to step up and organize and do Outreach it’s you already sounds like you’re already very your hands are full working with women and it sounds like that would be good for more men to anybody listening who has that the resources or the means to to do more Outreach Two Men and hopefully that will that will happen and I would say I just want another question just while we’re on the topic is if you if you feel like there is do you feel like a lot of the men who are of War buying the sexual services at women are they are they not really functional in their in their their own marriages that are on family life and are they I guess I don’t know like I said the other is there anything you can say about about the profile or the sort of in the attitude or the State of Mind of the mail client server or are they just a lot of single man to hoodoo don’t have a wife and that therefore they had they feel like they have to get through the day but with a beer you know with getting some drinks and inviting some sex and again there is so much so much change that needs to happen in one of them against the things that I be all that needs to happen from what I saw you know growing up in a very traditional community at 8 I was born in Mexico and I grew up in the town I was very religious it was okay for men to go to a bar in to go to La Cantina to look to spend some time with women right because many of them felt have to ask for certain things from their wives or their girlfriends was disrespectful and so they grew up thinking that the women that worked in the bar in the Campina where it was okay to have certain things of them right certain sexual things or even just to drink with them right again that idea that the women that worked in the casino or less than the women that are at home but that should not be the case that we can community that there’s this idea that yeah I’m going to go to the bar I’m going to go to the one with her right or she will be willing to deliver for a Spur to do and I cannot ask my wife to do that because she’s a good wife or she’s a good woman or she’s going to get offended if I ask her to do certain things when it might be very well that her wife at home or at home is wishing he will do those things with her because of how she grew up in this box that she was playing through gender role that don’t ask for something sexual well your violence violence that that if you are a good wife you would not dare ask for any of that and so that’s one of the things that I’m very passionate about teaching women again we let you know when it’s okay to to look for pleasure it’s okay to have conversations with your partner about certain things it’s okay to explore as long as you are both okay in the end it’s okay to look for a relationship with someone who is not going to feel threatened if you ask for certain things for your own pleasure well that is really powerful and I appreciate you saying that that really means a lot that really helps me understand a lot better and I hope I hope we can move towards that and and I appreciate the work you’re doing to create that space to explore and understand and and change the is paradigm so you’re so another question I have for you which is kind of this kind of extraordinary but I like to I like to do you know what some people call a thought experiment where you just think about what obviously you have you have some budgetary constraints and you have people power constraints but if you and your team or your colleagues the people you work within your organization if you somehow we’re blessed with the resources and the even just to say you won the lottery or something absurd like that but it was just say you had you had really almost Limitless potential or and Empower even politically to say okay this is all of this is all of the wisdom that we have and these are the proposals that we have and and if you just had what what you need to talk about investment and whatnot so if there was a if there was a venture capital firm that says we really think what you’re doing is important and we feel like that there is a benefit to society to have you you all have more resources and really if you if you had almost Limitless budget what are some of the things that you would do to to accelerate and grow and expand you know your services in certainly how I mean I would love to see since having been to the place you know your location I would love to see myself I would love to see you have more more acreage you no more land and something like the weirdest El Centro Farm was there some place where you can have Community Gardens in actual herbal Gardens in and healing natural areas and places for meeting that we’re outside and there were also safe and also had security so that’s just kind of what comes to my mind but I’m curious what you would do or what you would sort of dream up if you had almost no limits to what you can imagine wow there’s so much that we will definitely do love I can tell you that with a bigger budget we will definitely be able to since we will not have waiting list for four clients to to enrolled into into a program but definitely one thing will be to to increase to provide more support for the women that are hiv-positive because of budget I’m talking about financial support very limited women are always left behind and yet they’re the ones that love to see more help women’s health programs that are more sex-positive that are inclusive of sexual trauma Empower women to advocate for their sexual health definitely expand more men’s healing talking circles where they can wear the men pink and strengthen the relationship that we would love to see that but definitely if there was no monetary restrictions more more a healing circles or for women where they can talk about their health advocate for the health including their sexual health awesome thank you so much for sharing and I’m hoping that all of your dreams will come true you’re suddenly during such important and if I don’t work in the community and so yeah I wish you absolutely the best moving forward and hopefully yeah we’ll see each other again and then more more collaboration will happen that will be mutually supportive within our communities do you have any closing words you’d like to share and then also do you want to share the website URLs and any other links or any other ways to connect that would be great bilingual 24-hour hotline anyone can reach this hotline 24/7 the number is 800 5856 231 once again is 800-585-6231 and our website is www.ladwp.com org once again is so absolutely yes sir I appreciate it’s been an honor and do you have any last closing words you like to say is just a call to action or or things that you feel like if if people knew in NC could hear this voice than they would they would they would want to step up and and I guess it was before we say that you are a 501 c 3 charitable non-profit so donations are tax-deductible am I correct that we are especially in need of support because we have the only shelter in the mission where people can can go if they have just been sexually assaulted or if they have just landed on the hospital and they’re afraid to go back home or back to where the perpetrator or abuser is and we definitely need a lot of support for that our women’s HIV program a lot of sports comidas up with some sort of supporting in the dollar if you can share our website with others or even our Facebook page elawc please go ahead and do so we will be very grateful thank you so much Alejandro I think that was a really good introduction to all of the the work you’re doing and I hope that’s a lots of good things come from this and hopefully we will have meet again and and maybe we can follow up again and have you back on sometime in the future talk about some new developments and hopefully there’s there will be a lot more a lot more great things happening in the future so thank you again for your time and we’ll be in touch okay bye bye thank you for listening to the touch of Honey Pot www.entrepreneur.com can cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temple in every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com Damas de

Sex Work Policy Reform Activism with Dave in Phoenix TPP165

Play

Sex Worker FistIn this episode I’m joined by a passionate advocate and activist for sex workers’ rights. Dave in Phoenix has been on the front lines of the prostitution decriminalization movement for a long time and has great insights to share about the Phoenix Goddess Temple case and much more.

Please visit his website at:
http://libchrist.com/

We discuss:

  • the story of liberated christians
  • swing conventions in the 90s
  • “onward christian swingers” new times
    article
  • the issue of single men in poly/swinger groups and the argument for sex workers
  • the history of the Phoenix Goddess Temple
  • Dave’s views on sexuality, religion, and law
  • the need for legal healing, massage, and touch
  • concerned about prostitution laws
  • “felony criminal enterprise” much higher
    crime than just prostitution which is just
    a misdemeanor
  •  testing the viability suggested donation vs. a fee arrangement for a sex act
  •  historical overview of Canadian prostitution laws
  • in-private consenting adult sex work vs
    street prostitution
  • beyond the myth that all prostitutes are forced into it
  • how escort agencies bend the law
  • harm reduction
  • Canadian charter of rights and freedoms
  • in current U.S. legal climate, escorts being assaulted by bag clients can’t help each other and are more afraid of the policy than bad clients
  • challenge to California prostitution laws
  • Sex Workers Outreach Project
  • Alternative funding models for sex “volunteers”
  •  the grey area of sugar daddies and friends with benefits
  • the potential and precedents for a club/membership model
  • the commonality of prostitution in the times of the bible
  • patriarchal double standards of adultery
  •  thoughts on bonobos and the myth of monogamy
  • my prayers for Tracy who I interviewed in this episode: https://tantrapunk.com/taking-a-stand-for-sacred-sexuality-with-tracy-elise-tpp36

About Dave:
I come from a very conservative background. 20+ years ago I was very active in evangelical, conservative ministries, including Bible Study Fellowship, Christian Business Men’s Committee, as well as serving as deacon in a conservative Presbyterian Church. For many years I believed in the inerrant word of God–God said it and that settles it.

But I met a couple where both husband and wife were going to Lutheran Theological Seminary to be ministers. They started pointing out how in Hebrew and Greek there were obvious contradictions in scripture and some things I thought were crystal clear were quite foggy. Being interested in supporting my conservative beliefs concerning sexuality, I set out to do more research to prove my position correct that sex was wrong unless you were married and then only with your wife. I read many books by theologians and those that were experts in Greek and Hebrew and slowly, over time, I found the evidence was overwhelming that I had been very wrong in my traditional beliefs. I became very upset that the church would mistranslate and misapply the bible to promote an agenda, which was not based on the original biblical texts.

In the mid 1980’s I attended many Stan Dale’s Human Awareness Institute’s “Sex, Love and Intimacy” workshops in Calif., where I learned and experienced the group dynamics of true love, intimacy and fulfilling sexuality far beyond just thrusting intercourse. While these groups were often closer to New Age type beliefs, I saw more Christ like love than what I had ever experienced in the traditional church. Too often the church is too busy reaching UP to God to reach OUT to each other. There are more people in the world starving for love and affection than starving for food, but when it comes to meaningful intimate interaction, the church is too often “God’s Frozen People.”

In my childhood I was very shy. I was scared of women and didn’t date till I was a senior in college. I never went to a dance. But gradually I became more outgoing and married. But more than 20 years ago, after being resingled, I was insecure and depressed. Many women reacted negatively to me, sensing neediness and insecurity. But slowly, over time, after experience the Stan Dale workshops, some sex surrogacy training, Esalen massage training and lots of G-spot massage experience I found women strangely attracted to me…especially once they started to experience my touch. For many years I thought all men were naturally, wonderfully intimate and I was just far behind. But so many women started telling me they had seldom experienced men with good touch and intimacy skills and I began to wonder why. I have concluded that many men want to be more intimate but haven’t learned how.

Example: A couple had me do Esalen massage on the women. After a while the man came upstairs to see how we were doing and got turned on seeing his nude girlfriend on my table. He jumped in wanting to be sexual with her. As he was poking and groping her body parts he asked how things were going. She replied “Great until you came up”. Sometimes honest communications can be embarrassing but he did get the message that at that time she wanted the intimacy of massage not poking and groping.

On the other hand, not everyone is going to become interested in real intimacy. Being intimate is much more threatening and difficult for many than just having recreational sex with strangers. But for me I don’t enjoy sex without intimacy, but often enjoy intimacy even without sex. My purpose is to show the various sexual intimacy options so people can relate to whatever they choose is most fulfilling for them.

I enjoy physical intimacy with a wide variety of women who also enjoy good touch, cuddling, massage, caressing etc. I have lots of ideas for more intimacy based on many years of teaching intimacy workshops for couples, counseling many couples as well as hearing from a huge number of men that are seeking more intimacy from sex workers.  I have been a speaker at national swing conventions hosted massage rooms and led the Phoenix Couples Group that had 350 participants.   I have been professionally trained and teach Esalen massage, which many women have enjoyed. I offer free massage to sex workers/dancers/massage therapists. Or, I offer what I call a non-sexual cuddle and caress experience so many women enjoy. Yes, I also enjoy sex but not “just sex” without intimacy with the great sex.

One of the problems I face in dating many “normal” women is that as one said, “I am looking for a man who values monogamy as much as I do.” The problem is they only see cheating as the alternative to monogamy. But because I have such different views, finding like minded single women is very hard. Obviously sex workers often face the same issues in their own personal relationships.

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 165 I’m being joined by Dave in Phoenix who is has a very interesting and very important role in my life and in the development of what’s becoming kind of a character which is this Township Punk this is sort of my my self-proclaimed super heroic Persona and it really was birthed to be very deeply honest this this this passion and this energy for sexual education sexuality education and sexual freedom in the rights to be a dignified sex worker and sexual healer all of these passions came really from my disgust and outraged when I first heard about what happened at the Phoenix goddess Temple and that invigorated me to because I saw an absence of a really solid movement within Tantra even though I had been a practitioner and a student and was kind of developing my skill sets and my credibility to have a practice and to operate in that field and I had some back on and I have really assumed there was a much stronger and a much more radical and much more proactive in in even revolutionary kind of solidarity movement within Tantra and when I discovered the what happened with the Phoenix goddess temple with Tracy at least it was really heartbreaking for me to feel like there wasn’t a strong sense of a movement like the way that the Black Panthers and the American Indian movement and civil rights movement and the gay rights movement and so many other movements that have had solidarity with political prisoners and with persecuted persecuted locations or or localities that there was a mycelial network of support that I was used to coming from that background and radical movements and I felt like it was severely lacking in this case and I don’t know all the facts and I wasn’t there and I can’t from my own personal experience make any any reasonable claims about the facts of the case all I can say is that I felt that the response was abysmal and very very few people seem to be keeping a breast with the proceedings of Tracy’s case and before the trial and end in after the trial and one of those few people who is here to talk about his perspective in his background that’s that’s Dave and he’s one of the few people that I have a very remote connection with just a just a lot of adoration for the work that he’s done and if you’ve never heard of the things got his Temple or Tracy at least please hang in there were about to get a full dose of the story on but first I want to just say thank you for hearing me out Dave to get caught up to speed and where I’m coming from and why I appreciate what you’ve done so much and and just say please do share with us here as much as you can or would like to about your personal background and what makes you a a very passionate delegate and well I guess the advocate is probably better word for the sex workers rights movement in general very good then I come from sort of a very different background but we kind of wind up in the same place at least in Broad broad generalities I was regionally in my childhood very shy kid scared to death of women that they tell I was a junior in college then people kind of say I might have made up for lost time I was also very conservative Christian Evangelical Christian Church I was a counselor for the Billy Graham crusade I originally grew up in Minneapolis which was the headquarters of the Billy Graham Association I was also very active and very fundamentalist Christian groups Bible Study Fellowship Christian business men’s can a very repressed sexually in with women and everything then I gradually grew I think my first life changing experiences were series of workshops over a number of years who founded by Standale human awareness Institute out of San Francisco with workshops at Harbin Hot Springs Resort in Northern California very powerful combined with sexuality in different forms very well done over the years I went many numbers of times I also once again in a relationship and brought a woman there that had a very powerful life-changing positive experience so that kind of made me get into the opposite of what I was as a child very outgoing or so I’ve always been interested in the intimacy aspects of of sensuality notches the the the sexuality so then I have to after that I moved to Phoenix and I started exploring with the biblical aspects of sex of sexuality I’m very analytical person I can came from the CPA background so I don’t believe just what people tell me I kind of have to examine for myself and started doing a lot of Bible study on the sexuality issues and found that at the conservative this really didn’t have any biblical basis I mean back in biblical times man could have as many wives and concubines as he wanted adultery was a violation of man’s in husband’s sexual physical rights over his women in all sorts of things then I met another Christian it was following the same path of the traffic came from a clothing-optional group in Los Angeles who wound up being here in Phoenix and we got together and says Jesus is a lot of Christians out there that are guilt-ridden everything about their sexuality was maybe they don’t really need to be and we formed a group called liberated Christians still have the website low price., though I haven’t upgraded it for many years we also been contacted by the lifestyle organization the national Swing Swing organization and did a bunch of presentations at the national Lifestyles convention I will probably in the 90s sometime at this point then we were picked up by a local newspaper called new times I had we were on the front page and headline I just looked it up still in the internet up the article on the front page headline find word Christian swingers looking for God in all the wrong places try this Sunday meeting and one of my favorites sentences in the article was this group’s introductory literature may be the only publication on Earth will you find the phrase Old Testament and vibrating nipple clamps on the same page typically swing group polyamory but not extreme living together and that’s for a thing after that article came out in New Times which had somehow they found her phone number buy some links to our website and that sort of thing and we had like a hundred phone calls from single guys as well as of a couple we have 350 people at one point in the couple’s group was a phoenix couples liberated Christians group and 10 question became what do we do with all these single guys because couples for good reasons want to be with other couples and that first got me interested in sex work area as a practical solution perhaps effect I had one Asian guy I remember distinctly calling me from college he says he’s never had sex before and he wanted to have his first experience with someone that knew what they were doing and they have led to the sex sex work area that I became interested in as a viable profession of helping people. Just just pure sexuality anyway years went by for years I had a phoenix private list with about a thousand people are on at the network with various escorts and in Phoenix and and other people and Tracy somehow contacted me and got on the list she started sharing with me some of her and her interest and experiences and wanted to form the Phoenix goddess Temple and even though I am not I’ve got a follower of Tantra in the religious sense I’m basically opened all religious beliefs I think there’s different paths to God and everything so I wasn’t really interested in the in the goddess you should totally supportive of what she was trying to do with healing people in the size and touching and all those other things but I was concerned about the prostitution laws and Warner you can’t just claim to be a religion and the First Amendment freedom of religion does a prostitution laws without going into a recession operated for number of years Polly had a had to change one location because of zoning and then wound up in the night sky Phoenix temple place they ultimately wound up with then they were rated and by the police 39 wonderful lemon lift Tracy prior to the arrest and then seeing her import exchange lots of emails over the years discussing various issues in the legal issues around what she was doing I met her once interesting lie cuz I met a gal there from the Christian background father was a minister in another country so we were interested in that aspect she also knew about the and that’s why we had a great time Burly got his kind of kind of session so then 39 people were arrested in the big raid 1 convince them they were they drop their and then dilated I think 38 wound up being indicted one was a cleaning lady that had nothing to do with anything anything else going on and the pre-trial process with with a very long time she was originally rested and I had one indictment with a million-dollar Bond as if you were a murderer then there was a second indictment which at one point had didn’t cancel the first behind so she had a two million-dollar bond for a while until the six six eating indictment replace the original document anyway long story of your process of the courts and all the pulmonary stuff they were threatened with the 40-50 years in prison if they didn’t plead guilty they did that because you got up to those kinds of terms because and it was a felony criminal Enterprise which is a much higher level of prosecution than just crossed a higher level of crime and just prostitution which is a misdemeanor but they often did that in Phoenix so they had criminal Enterprise and then every time they control money exchanging it was a felony laundry charge so they piled on all the charges and I was in the hearing where the judge gave four judges all together but one of the judges gave what they call a Donald advisement if you’re found guilty of all these you could face 40-50 years in prison so that scared all the gals they all took plea agreements most all four felonies a butt with probation instead of going facing going to prison Tracy was the only one that held out and went to trial went to a jury I thought the judge was very good there was a lot of big legal arguments about how much you can bring religion into the issue it was clear that there is no first amendment protection I can go through all the legal cases what’s the could you don’t have first amendment protection against state criminal laws but every States when the Supreme Court declared the Federal Protection of religion Free Speech religion along with did not apply all the states develop their own freedom of religion hacks including Arizona and there was a Hennessy case or the Georgia cases that have to be discussed anyway so I was hoping she’d rely more on that unfortunately the a lot of her testimony was very long the judge gave her free raining on everything but it was mostly preaching goddess goddess teachings an app to the jury my opinion didn’t have enough of the legal arguments there was also a lot of witnesses some of the top people the founder of the human sexuality was testify there he’s a great guy even Dennis Hof of the runs Nevada brothels was there and he’s playing this was no way to run a brothel what you take a donation at the end of the. At the end of the session you on the throne or whatever it was called you put your donation of those suggested what was on the website and in order to violate the state prostitution law which leads to criminal Enterprise you have to have a few rangement for a sex act and so I was arguing she should be hurt anymore that wasn’t the arrangement anyway those were brought up but she got it a lot of side issues which weren’t really relevant to my humble opinion so it’s finally after what was it for 5 months of trial judge I thought was very fair went to the jury and we thought you know how many days will the jury deliberate and everything within a couple hours Jerry was ready to announce the verdict I had gone home most people have gone home we got calls we all ran back to the courthouse and she was found guilty on all counts and sentenced to four and a half years in prison when she is now in she then filed an appeal the peels been in process now for a couple of years and all sorts of delays in the appeal the court appointed attorney hope she also acted as our own the Turning which I’ve always thought was a big mistake because she was already really more about what wonderful goddess work she was doing rather than the law and I don’t mean to be over critical but I think she would have been done better if she had had an attorney rather than representing herself so we finally got to the appeal stays she filed a brief her own appeal attorney suggested she not get to her hopes up too much because unfortunately I think the issues are against her then a couple of months ago or 3 weeks ago actually the state made their reply which got into all of the typical reasons why the state has a compelling interest in the prostitution law all sorts of other be crying all the terrible things that happen which is mostly related Street prostitution simple but that was hard to overcome so we were still in the appeals estate actually if she gets out with good behavior Plus credit for time served she might be out of prison in December we don’t even know if that appeals court will make a final decision before she’s released which is sort of ridiculous so I’ve always totally support what she is done though I think her at legal legal aspects were weak and that’s one of my story my background and how I got related to the temple wow well thank you for sharing that and thank you also for being for being honest and this is a place to to learn and to grow together with the right intentions and so I appreciate and I don’t I don’t feel any reactivity emotionally to take me to pick sides and order or I wouldn’t advise anybody that’s could a critical thinker to overlook whatever dissenting opinions are may be of any of any facts or any proceedings like I said before I don’t have a enough of any of the background information or experience to have much of an educated opinion on any of the stuff other than just the for me it’s the this is a unique opportunity for these issues to be sort of officially etched in the record of Western Civilization for as long as it exists but I would say I got a girlfriend I I’ve totally think of prostitution laws ridiculous and should be changed I just got back from Canada to Canada every year for the last 15 years in the Toronto area where we don’t have is a sure everybody’s safe her everything’s aboveboard they don’t have these kind of issues so even though I thought she defended it a little wrong I’ve always been supportive of what she does and all the good things we had by and I think about you we should have decriminalization of prostitution like much of the world does and we wouldn’t have this a lot of the problems that are associated with it I mean stay probably spend a million to $2000000 to prosecute her in 38 good Folks at the truck at the temple in the court system UI money could have been much more wisely smell than on something that had some real victims also one other interesting aspect that you really gets me upset is a one of the vice cops testified he been like a Vice Cop for 15 years and he made the statement have all the rest I’ve done and everything was undercover and with Vise work I have never yet met a prostitute quote that shows the profession she was forced into there’s something in her background so the idea in Phoenix and now around the country is we have to arrest sex workers look like for that turn we have to arrest sex workers to save because no woman in the right mind would be a sex worker that’s the attitude we have when the when the cop said that on the stand Tracy popped up and said you don’t know me and the cops as well I don’t know you that well I’m sure if I dug into your background I would find some abuse for some reason that you didn’t you needed to be you needed to do this and be a sex worker both in Phoenix and basically around the country funded hugely by these anti sex worker and I work groups to take a few isolated cases usually from the street which is totally different from your sex work is dividing the two things Street work obviously which I’ve had no connection with and private Consulting consenting adults like the Phoenix temple and zillions of other escorts a lot of the making your way through through college that are there by choice but we don’t make a distinction about that and there’s huge funding millions of dollars going in the organization to propagate the idea that all sex work is abusive women and therefore we need to save them and lately it’s been reduced man so they’re going more after sings with customers now has a way of reducing this man so hopefully no women will want to be a sex worker be so that’s cuz that’s the big issues that we face it really gets my call with the temple case and all the zillions of other people that have been prosecuted that are doing in private consenting adult sex work right yeah thank you for being up all those are so many important points of of talking points and in places to take action from all in what you shared and we’re in this very backward time right now in special United States and appreciate you bringing in a more Global Perspective and really the the words that the worst harm reduction come to mine for the forward-thinking progressive policies around drug addiction that have also been lead in other parts of the world in at the US drug war is not the War on Drugs the war on sex workers it’s all very much well it’s a Wyndham Chomsky would say it’s not it’s not a conspiracy it’s institutional analysis is not a conspiracy theory if you if you study what’s going on so from your perspective do you want to talk about what you feel especially of the religious background what are the forces what are we how would you describe the forces that are justifying in their minds and their budgets that level of of budgeting for what you could argue is a victimless crime well there are I can’t remember her name is one special Advocate has been wrong for years this written all these research reports on the evils of prostitution us because they are about people mostly street workers and they’re armed and there is a problem street workers that have come from abusive backgrounds that are forced by by economically reasons and that sort of thing I happen to believe that street work is a public nuisance is completely different than private checks work we should have other Alternatives like in calls or or Jones week been tried in Europe but of really really failed the woman that sort of started all of this been going on for like 10 years this is nothing new was just accelerated in recent years the Canadian studies calls I’ve always been legal in Canada however until a few years ago in calls were illegal and agencies Living Color’s call living off the avails what’s the main problem was in calls really go so you can get people off the streets and in an Impulse there was a big fight in the court challenging the laws for printing call and agency living off the avails agencies always thrived in Canada was never a problem his agency’s clearly Soul time and that sex isn’t the word any agencies are being prosecuted o that way but everyone was afraid open Indian calls which would be safer than alcohols Dover number of yours are way too started my case that wound up in the Superior Court of Canada Sac Superior Court of Canada that is a judge ruled 1/2 ruling was one of the longest ruling is in Canadian history of her detail that she went into with all the testimony from both sides part of the testimony was from these groups from the United States that did Friend of the Court briefs about all the evils of sex work the judge took all this into consideration and basically discarded all of that is being biased with a nun representative group and she ruled that the Canadian prostitution law for incalls basically and living off the avails was unconstitutional their constitution is a Charter of Rights and Freedoms which part of that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is about the security of the person and security of the person has been defined as harm reduction in the eyes of the court and ruled that the laws against prostitution without call is always Leon but the other forms of prostitution violated the charge of racing in friedensburg Jennifer security of the person because it created harm so it was the crown light at the the stated then appealed and stem appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada the Supreme Court of Canada upheld Superior Court ruling declaring it unconstitutional the prostitution laws of Canada based on harm reduction something happened subsequent them c36 which is probably going to get rejected also which then made it sort of the Year peter than Swedish example made it illegal for the customer conservative Harper prime minister was against Sheehy there more than some very conservative sects work was terrible and pass the law that made it a crime for the customer even though it was totally legal for a sport most all the major cities police Jason said they were not going to change their enforcement that they were going to follow the harm reduction model of the Supreme Court and basically there’s been no address in are bothering in private consenting adults sex with customers it did bring charges against an Asian Sea which is in process is not going to come back to the courts until January most legal experts believe it will be able to see 36 level to be held unconstitutional again the whole idea is harm reduction safety of the security of the individual under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms obviously the same thing would apply here but we have these well-funded groups National groups we have the hunt Sisters of the famous oil kind of tycoons have been a big girl order of millions of dollars I’ve actually gone there are nonprofit organizations I’ve actually gone and see their their tax filings r990bts background and see the millions of dollars being being funneled into it we also had a big thing in Phoenix the governor and the former Governor instigator that this big Council on sex work made in prostitution and one of the biggest organizers and supporters was mrs. McCain as in Senator McCain who ran for president on unfortunately sick right now but serious illness so we had all these legislative changes in Arizona including making it a felony to promote or assist before that there were about four local boards for people were sharing information warning people about bad clients escort warning others about that clients fake police officers that would would try and get free services that sort of thing when the new Arizona law passed that basically all the local board shutdown nobody wants to be committing a felony for assisting in prostitution my board I greatly reduced I stopped in the ass I stopped any reviews basically it’s now just Legal Information and general stuff but nothing like it was before one of the examples which goes back a few years before these new Arizona laws were passed making everything more risky for everyone of course now with no floss that’s even more extreme Now All Aboard you shut down so there is no safety and in that but I had a rather dramatic experience Health Department as sort of their their battering ram into the industry I’m curious in New Hampshire are they is it is there any specifications from the health department or health code that that are trying to set the rules for the industry for the porn industry their house we are hoping for more people more to join you know start producing they would have to try to regulate it but I don’t know if they would because I really don’t think they would I adhere to the same of you know guidelines as as far as testing goes as the only difference is we provide them with testing we we go through this last we have this very detailed checklist I think it was inspired by Nikki Benz I think it’s called and he will try to do it is legitimate is possible the only difference is we’re not paying Los Angeles or Las Vegas free because no dependents small company but you know we talked with other producers about importing Talent from Vegas and Los Angeles and you know kind of like it’s a long journey to make the asacol responsibility to keep it clean and keep it regulating type of business you just have to have trust that all people are you know I’m doing the right thing around that is because then yeah I think that I think like Outlets sexually here you know I said you know if you will actually liberated place like you know I even thought about you some Leaf peeping directed in the professional studio shoot up or down with your spouse just that sounds like a great guy honestly before you even were saying this stuff I could I was just it was a premonition that you would be talking about this because I I just felt like you were going to probably end up working in some capacity with the Chamber of Commerce of wherever whatever region or whatever sort of municipality or me to Sally’s and actually help that like what you’re you can’t you know you can’t afford your Public Works projects you know your new parks are being closed down for whatever reason well here we got the screws it’s going to be amazing yeah I can see it now and start building and I’m almost filling my gas tank to start driving out there right now I can of gas its people have been wanting you know it’s been it’s been on my not just a to-do list but actually really it’s it’s it’s the lot a lot of the stuff is is I can see it happening and also I I I want to if it’s not already being taken for some other obviously a worthy cause I feel like the love Free or Die state is going to be the hashtag that I talk to Subway to get a handle on that it’s all you it’s you if you can take that and run with it if she if it works but I feel like that’s good it’s the best I feel like you have a lot of love but I like a lot of love yeah I know I feel it I feel I feel you said you were a Healer and you seem you seem like very empathetic yeah this won’t this to me you know all of the trauma that I have witnessed that I’ve experienced ice I can imagine that this is would be a place for people that veteran died literally I mean you know they call it in the adult industry we say that you’re a civilian if you’re not in front of you in if you’re not in front of the camera and doing the stuff for on the street or wherever you’re a civilian and so if that’s the case which I really truly believe it is then we need to have VA programs in hospitals in a note and benefits and we’re doing a public service for helping living out everyone’s fantasies for them if they don’t have the courage or the resources to make them happen so for that I like to be treated with this much if not you know as much love and respect and dignity and resources as veterans violence and brutality in Warfare civilians is military yeah that’s cool yeah and we aren’t we aren’t we know we were lying about reliving some sort of childhood, it wasn’t about servitude or Surrender sometimes it was just the process to the session would be the process to get to the Aftercare to get to that hug to get to that approval of being told you did a good job you know and when I realize that I thought there’s so much more I’ve actually I’ve had plenty of clients for a while there it was kind of weird they were widows widowers their wearers like I was attacking little words that were in various ways and people don’t understand that Sexual Energy can be incredibly therapeutic and healing you know when there’s something fundamentally wrong with that especially you know I mean now I mean Dairy mention you know I mean every day and I just kept having these handmade in handmaid’s tale things going through my mind and and now to be apart of Swap and to be keto on the inside track knowing what’s going on with this legislation here to decriminalize effort I am filled with hope and love all over again no more despair or fear I feel like this could really I meant to be alive right now at this time and to be here and now in this state I feel very very honored and lucky absolutely why I feel very honored and lucky that we are having this conversation you were exactly the voice of the representative that I wanted to find and connect with its in this is really an amazing amazing invigorating conversation and I just I just want to thank you again so much and you know we’ve got a little bit of time left I think we covered most of what I was super excited and looking forward to discussing I guess I would like to ask if you want to talk about the kind of support that you need from people in the area from people abroad people anywhere in the world listening to this but what what do you need to help your chapter really get to the to the point where were you have all your dreams are coming true and you know you have the people power and the skill sets what were you what are your pain points and what do you need so that that can just be put out there and it is a prayer absolutely absolutely awesome and I’m sex worker Outreach project is a nonprofit we do accept donations we accept recurring donations donations I mean just to be an ally to a sex worker to be supportive and you know aware that their work is real work and emotionally laboring work to know the sex work as a form of emotional and physical labor and that nobody story is is representative of all sex where you know and I think that the presence of sex workers in social movement come together and try to fight this and you have to fight what gone but it is a tubal refuse up sex workers bank accounts and it’s happened the money seems suspicious that’s unacceptable yeah yeah that’s you that’s the way to to bypass So Many Factors whether it’s the pimp violence or the banks or the state or even Amazon not wanting your wishlist to be you know used for compensation whatever it is the terms that you have to been in bed will I have to say that the my biggest public service announcement for anybody that might be in your network who listens to this is that I really hope that anyone listening who is a sex worker who has the u.s. exposed to these Financial choke point issues invest time in studying the whole cryptocurrency movement starting with Bitcoin and in aetherium but but you can accelerate that process if you start to look into joining the platform of spankchain which is bringing together all of the activism all of the the really Advanced cryptocurrency solutions for being your own bank literally being your own bank where you have peer-to-peer Financial transactions you can sell they will be yeah they will be providing a lot of solutions for the industry and for the producers and performers to be empowered independently and off the rails of the money system we don’t need to do our dirty work without your dirty Fiat is how I feel McGregor’s Outreach project we have like a meme donation thing you can donate cooked difference NFL Karma Dakshin and and how how sex workers are the difference between trafficking educate yourself some people have been looking for what seems like an ideal future to me or all of the the glory and the beauty of the healing in the transformation that is possible and also the the sort of in the streets marches and the activism going to take to get there and a couple of I guess you’re silly but up at the memes have come to me and one is it you know people I remember chanting in the streets protesting Wars and logging and you all kinds of pollution would not the people we would always chant whose streets are our streets and I can hear this echoing Cruise sheets are seeds coming out with our seats and then you can also got allies and civilians involved right thing that ever since I started looking into it swapped but I’ve ever felt like we’ll all of the the Financial Funding necessary to do real political work lobbying in legislation and all that stuff I feel like there’s got to be a way to solicit the the buyers of sex work the purchasers of the material that the funeral of the client’s right of the clients are you so mean maybe PornHub can put a donate button to swap you know somewhere I mean set stuff like that I would love to see the financing for all of the stuff that you have in your bucket list of dreams to make come true for this industry and for this movement that that the money if the people who can afford to pay for their further their fetish or for their experience or for their media everybody and you know what I mean I come from the the green business Eco business startup kind of seen in in LA and it was a no-brainer that you would want to launch your startup having a dollar of every purchase or a percentage of your purpose so that you could have the the pr potential of putting out press releases were you talk about how you give back as a social impact or I mean even PornHub has done a lot of cool stuff like that and I don’t mean to keep harping on them but because they’re the biggest conglomerate really that the industry absolutely and you know that they’re behind them right that I was either going to let my contact continue to be over there in cream to the channel myself because it because you know we can continue and have more follow-ups to this conversation but I certainly would love to explore some of your insights in the industry and I have some yes yeah I wanted to add you know how that Whole Foods you know if you have to you have to be a squeaky wheel gets the grease and House of weird that you were is this is thrilling to me I know that there’s a there’s worse things in the world than having pornstars solicit you on your doorstep like door-to-door canvassing for help me on Monday to take your singing telegrams you know what the my name is you could use the conservative rhetoric against him and say we’re here to clean up the adult industry sign here and give us a check what do you mean well I know where else next workers never would never when they used to pack meat and the muckrakers had to blow the whistle and that’s how we have ratio any conservative how do I I subscribed to say the r word regulation but I will say any sort of public outcry about working conditions that’s all we need you know and Industry within the industry of people like you who know what performers need what the issues are and can represent that and it’s not coming top down it’s not coming from you know sideswiping from weird organizations with too much money trying to push agendas where they don’t belong and some people know what I’m talking about there and some people don’t but it’s what they did with the keywords you know trafficking of course people wanted to sign off on that piece of aeon I support you know anti-trafficking laws of course I do and so what we could do is we could eat give them a dose of their own medicine like you said hi we’re going to clean up your industry and fine hair like that cuz that’s how they do so many things when they say you know that people don’t read the fine print when they when they sign initiatives to get on the ballot you know they read the sort of sensationalist headline that skews the facts to some moral kind of you get boxed in Morley by the by the by the headline of whatever it is and so that it’s it’s like appealing to logical fallacies for anyone to want to do that but yeah I mean this is really it’s actually truly the holiest and most most sort of medic there’s there’s a way for all of the people to I mean excellent performers have the legal space to do this right then then the medical aspect will I think it’s going to naturally organically become a safer environment if you’re not having to be underground in the hide from you know the the filming commission and fucking cops and at the neighbors and you could actually have facilities that work up Captain staff and you know and fungus were like just clean to the places I mean that’s what people say about the all of those secondary crime things that go along with Vice and things being underground and the black market economy you know if when you when you legalize drugs all of those secondary cramps go away and so this is a war on sex and we need to end the war on drugs and the war on sex and these problems will sell themselves in the free market so it’s going to happen New Hampshire you know get ready full medical benefits of cannabis right and I’m actually is for you I think what will happen is that is that is that the Cheeto person will get a reverse gangbang by a bunch of Tantra see the goddess and he will want to transform United States into one giant orgiastic goddess Temple to heal the planet from all the patriarchy that’s my that’s my vote I’m going to put that are you trying to turn me on now I try I try not to but sometimes I can’t help it it just happens thank you for that well yeah so we it’s been one of the most delightful hours of my life at sharing this time with you and I’d like to ask you now to give us the links to everything that you want to share and that you’re involved with and close this out with some final words calls-to-action slogans from the front lines whatever you like to share please take your time. Thank you it’s been an honor and I’m I’m I’m pretty sure my cheeks are going to hurt from smiling too so that’s as wot USA. O r g basically you where you can find me I just would like to do everything I can and vegetation Security building in Albuquerque beautiful thank you awesome alright I see well yeah let’s let’s call it a podcast and let’s be in touch and I will I will be in touch again very soon thank you so much and have a wonderful evening. Smiley and you’re coming over here thank you for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com Thomas Day