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Brad Mitchell Mojohost Award

High Quality Website Hosting for Adult Content with Mojohost President Brad Mitchell TPP279

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In this episode I’m joined by my new favorite web guru Brad Mitchell for a next level journey into the value of the high quality services provided by Mojohost

Please visit Mojohost at:

 https://www.mojohost.com/

About Brad:

For 21 years Brad Mitchell has been a presence in the adult space that has defined him as one of the most trusted, respected and recognizable faces in the industry. As the president and founder of MojoHost, Brad has built one of the fastest growing and customer-approved hosting companies with more than 1,200 companies as clients worldwide. Brad has been published many times over the years and is a frequent speaker at industry conferences. MojoHost is a multiple winner of XBIZ’s Best Web Host, GFY’s Web Host of the Year and Ynot’s Best Hosting Company Award and Brad himself holds numerous distinctions, topped by the AVN Hall Of Fame Internet Founders Award. Often recognized as the preeminent host of our industry and acclaimed by customers, Brad is a family man who will always take the time to help. Brad’s experience, knowledge and personality make him a go-to guy in the adult industry. He believes in honest business practices and helping people, and lives by the motto #ThatsGoodMojo.

My Non Verbatim Show Notes:

BM: Corey Silverstein, most profound industry attorney, representing talent and companies, he’s actually my best friend, met long time ago, before he passed the bar, mojohost has been using his legal services for the whole time he’s been a lawyer

TP: awesome, glad to hear that

BM: started august 1999

in health care before tech and adult entertainment

life moments, purchasing first house, getting married, 23-24 years old, decision, job that I had wasn’t inline with goals, 7 years into career, that going in all right places, decided wasn’t what signed up for, gave notice

started searching for business for sale

collection of adult website for sale, active in commerce, bought pay sites, started journey down path

first few years, bought websites that had revenue, 10-12k a month in rev, didn’t know when started, awful lot, didn’t know due diligence, didn’t know person selling was defrauding me, rocky start, management to make the best of it

sites were, all stolen content, fraud recurrering credit card database, deleted everything, rebuilding different niche sites with licensed content, starting all over again, before starting hosting company

established pay site program, for a few years also had phone sex marketing company, early on as site owner, trying to figure out what else I could promote

didn’t trust concept of affiliate programs, traffic was organic from search engines

got niche specific toll free premium rate entertainment lines

first conference may of 2000, on mission trying to find company there to do fulfillment

teach other webmasters to do what I’m doing, make .25, .50

back then, searching on internet, weren’t marketers there

early origin story

always been technically inclined, bought service, put in data center,

made friends in industry

started to re-sell some hosting to offset and lower bills

april of 2002, when I officially went into hosting business, running phone affiliate program,

current business partner today, upon his suggestion, started partnership, he was CTO managing all things technical, I was managing finances, sales, operations, been a long time since then

today over 1000 clients all over the world

1500 servers, 2 different data centers

several dozen employees doing technical support

quite a journey, watching all the tech, working with so many companies

the 1000 I host today represent more than 3000 individuals and companies I’ve worked with since we started

TP: blessings to you for taking on these opportunities and challenges, a lot of learning curves

BM: for sure, never really learned anything the easy way

remember having talks at trade shows, people arguing about giving away 15 second free video clips, around those years, people started to publish video on the internet, bandwidth used to be super expensive,, content was behind a paywall

typically a life cycle of 4-6 years, for someone’s business

so many amazing entrepreneurs, very few ideas and implementations you can create once and just sort of last forever

have to continue reinventing selves and products

catchphrase, that’s good mojo

corporate mantra, from sales to technical support

always in support of customers

give as much info as possible

as much as can, try to empower customers, with all the tools they need

much rather have creative entrepreneurs finding a home here that people with stagnant businesses

95% customers in adult entertainment or advertising space

busy in this space

1-2 years, making efforts, adding staff, augment marking, expand reach

amazing set of technical products, haven’t been reaching fullest audience

TP: appreciate longevity of your operation, definitely hanging in there, flash backs of those chokepoints in bottlenecks in bandwidth and streaming

survived different waves of politics/tech

difference between adult friendly and unfriendly web hosting services

pitch for why people need to do it right the first time, start with adult friendly tech stack for content

BM: my experience, as always a lot of preconceived notions

most basic level, being on internet, even buying a domain, they think godaddy

even when it comes to starting at very beginning, most registrars, have something that looks like a bundled plan,

hosting package, maybe includes domain, show low domain price, 9.99, details fine print, intro price, renews at price higher on year two

we’ve done, convenience for client base everyday low price on domains, include privacy services

.com, always 9.99 no higher, no upcharge for privacy, offer as convenience

for average person, challenging to pick a good web host, if not what experience is grounded in

10s of 1000s website selling hosting, most are resellers, reselling hosting services from other organizations

one or several servers in a data center, don’t own servers don’t own network, don’t own ip space, aren’t negotiating bandwidth, their providing tech support, renting server from hosting company

always gonna be a cheaper price for webhosting, paying for what you get

smaller companies, maybe a great match, get lucky, super attentive admin

wake up in middle of the night, respond timely, handle tickets quickly

don’t have economy of scale for support

when we started, literally, if in middle of night server went down, he’d have to get woken up to fix server

extreme example on small end of webhosting, dont think it’s good place to host with

dont’ have depth of experience, or buying power to assemble a good product

mojo host, servers in 2 continents, separate company in netherlands

1,500 servers online

one of things differentiates us the most

going from one end of spectrum, small web host, selling management on top of renting a real hosting company

opposite would be going with something like go daddy, huge company

challenge with opposite end, is that they have many many tiers of technical support experience, pick up phone, call, medium or complex question, get someone at first tier of tech support, navigate through technical bureaucracy, to get right advice

mojo host 25 senior sys admins, 5-15 years experience

spend several months teaching more, how to do things our way, we can be accountable to expectations/outcomes for customers

few hundred very large webhosting companies, I’m on small end of spectrum, we’re on of them based on traffic, client count, server count,

most of larger companies not selling high touch customer service product, they are trying to move quantities of servers, selling just based on price point, buying hosting can be really confusing

misleading

analogy, ever had unlimited cellular plan, only to find out its not unlimited?

Rate limiting/throttling, no body wants that

definitely don’t want that on a server

revenue tracks with customer experience

difference in cost, less than what you think

can explain how hosts buy bandwidth, how they do their internet routing,

we assemble best networking, best support team, hardware nerd

goal, to deliver everyday good price for great product, with support that’s amazing

proud of it

our tech support, not allowed to say no, work till blue in the face to help

programming advice, feedback on bad scripting, mindful of security considerations

manage to client success

independent creative thinker, problem solver

TP: more and more sold, a lot of my pain points are being nudged on a bit

realizing more and more, I probably have been shooting myself in the foot

BM: don’t beat yourself up too much

I see it a lot when people are buying

takes a connection, good conversation, have it explained to you

a buyer of hosting, always okay to ask why, always an explanation

there’s an answer for everything

truth of it is, on tech support, wage scales are very high for top notch, technical talent

staff used to cost me 30-45k a year 10 to 12 years ago, now in north america,

65-over 100k a year with full benefit package,

tech support may take an hour to solve your problem, complex trouble shooting

if you’re buying a plan that’s 10 or 20 or 50 or 99$ a month, there’s a real clock that’s ticking on the other endof the phone,

support difference, it would be very easy to try to layer that with less qualified tech support to average those costs down

I’ve had such a crack sys admin team

team is global

guys in us, michigan where headquarters, florida, maine, wisconsin

office in ukrain, 18 sys admins

2 in phillipenes

high standard for who your hiring, english skills, good team fit?

Fit for company culture, integrity, work ethic, creativity, attitude, positive attitude, make for great employees

physically living doesn’t matter so much

super high quality staff

don’t hire any candidates

TP: if I’m dealing with any service provider who’s not on board with adult industry, tip towing, egg shell walking, shy, enter what’s your domain, on support ticket, I cringe, will they be biased

BM: you never know,

personal views might affect outcome of what your trying to accomplish, that’s one risk factor, the other

big companies, broad sweeping policy changes that affect everybody

canadian web hosting company, didn’t want to host any more adult website, never got to speak with any principles of that entity, don’t know what rationale was, led to them having many customers that needed to find a new home

found us, seamlessly get those people moved over

helped them all win

more servers, more bandwidth, better or lower price

that’s the risk you run with medium size companies that think to have policies

with larger entities, even more complex risk factor,

example: abuse complaints can be a very wide spectrum of opinion, there’s the laws that exist, very real, all abide by those, when it comes to email or content related, obscenity, start getting into areas some of which well defined, others very subjective

when a client is sitting at a very very large web host, dozens or 100s of people in abuse department, handing broad spectrum they’re not invested in understanding what’s going on, what they’re looking at, maybe they don’t have to care… that right decisions being made, right actions being taken

we’ve got silverstein as attorney, see eye to eye on all of those issues

protect customers so they can feel safe if they’re doing good honest business

at same time, I do everything in my power that people doing bad things on the internet don’t have any safe places to hide, can’t do it on my network

another benefits to being at a host that’s so engaged with whats right/wrong legally and dare say morally, I’m able to keep whole flock of customers safer by making really smart decisions about what we will and wont’ allow on our network

mega hosts, often the victim of neighborhood that they’re in

making sales, everything a sign up page, not really conversation with customers

not interested …some fly by night spam nonsense, things that are deceitful can create bad internet network neighborhood

more often victim of ddos

beautiful things at mojohost, network, filled with good neighbors, makes everyone’s stuff safer, not looking to add every possible sale to mojohost, only seeking good customers

any indications that someone’s doing something fraudulent/illegal, happy to get them off our network, helps protect …other servers, protects IP reputation

TP: again all these flashbacks, being hacked by some vuln on some other shared host, not maintaining

you get what you pay for

you don’t get what you don’t pay for

BM: in order to keep my staff effective, don’t sell shared hosting, we do sell them to people, mostly friends and family, anyone we’ve known or met can talk to us, if don’t have a plan at your price point we’ll create one for you, good people doing good things on internet

shared hosting is massively over subscribed, dozens to hundreds of customers, hundreds to 1000s of domains and put on single server, problem is working under same installation of operating system, all same memory, ram, disk resources, hard to give somebody guarantee on quality of service at that price point

say you have wordpress site, one domain, hundred other people wordpress site on own domains, inexperienced, start adding things to wordpress, no consideration, exploits that theme or mod, when last update, how secured,

shared hosting, someone got rooted on the box, affects everybody’s websites

sharing ip addresses, now goofed for everybody

im not able to serve all of the masses, but that’s not the goal of the business

if you want a more predictable, more reliable, higher performance, more deeply supported experience you’re gonna have to pay a bit more, not necessarily a lot more, but a little bit more

10 a month to 50 a month, what are you getting what are you paying

company like mine, committed to industry, really resourceful

open line of communication, jack, keith, natalie, to our attorney,

if someone’s smart, tap relationships right, being in the club gets you access to everybody

travel the world, 10-12 adult conferences a year, meeting people all over the place sometimes that means, if you had a problem with say your paxum account, maybe I can connect you with someone to help you get it fixed

good mojo, I know such and such, see if I can help you get this squared away, other business value feel like we can add, for customers and friends

always happy to help whenever possible

TP: definitely stoked on that way of approaching it, I’ve felt very alone, naked and afraid, on the internet, I would say to be honest at this point, the threshold I’ve arrived at personally, I’ve been sort of in a bit of an incubator, experimenting, see if can find niche, find traction, it is what is, been what’s it’s been, now would be able to justify premium, more robust

can’t justify liability, not having team behind me

it wouldn’t be one of those 3 letter agencies to be the first ones to tell me I’m doing something wrong, it would be you and corey and everybody else, have all the security on your end correct, things you’d never know in your blindspot, never ending attacks

advanced round

what I’m desperately looking for now, cyber security, info sec, data breach, listening to podcasts

hole in most hosting service providers, some of them them allow multifactor authentication on cpanel, most don’t looking for ones that do, in today’s world, have shared secrets on server, evil made, insider, issue, public key, shell, mfa,

could you give me the elevator pitch on how the admin dashboard, cpanel, ect. Even ftp/ssh access, how can people have the most bulletproof secure access and management experience

BM:

blow your mind, hate selling people cpanel, recommend against it every chance we get

you’ve got managed hosting here’s your cpanel, have at it, doesn’t sound very managed, self servicing, hoping you don’t fuck things up

on top of it, baked into your costs, cpanel licensing fees, cpanel bought by larger entity, licensing very different, what does it mean to you

changed all licensing and royalty amounts

increased prices to consumer

some instances double or triple the fees

change in raw costs on licensing

cpanel has a great product, some alternatives, mostly at mojo, very different, no control panel, my staffs doing the work, you want to ad 5 domains, you put in a support ticket, tell us what the domains are, alright guys go in and add all the domains, we set up all the firewalls, add all email accounts. Like a consierge service

TP: feel like infinite attack surface anytime I log in

BM: …from tech perspective, staffed up with such qualified sys admins, more granular, directly command line, write on scripts to manage server, automate things on the back end, not like my guys going into control panel, copying and pasting into script, lots of things in backend, more efficient, more accurate, customize for betterment of client

when you order hosting for pretty much any other “regular host” getting default install, no tweaking anywhere, not database, …

we believe, best practices all of these different very specific areas, security, performance

might be paying a little more with us to have personal support, senior level sys admin, don’t have to know how to do the work, don’t have to know how to solve the problems, we’ll fix it, explain what happened, explained what options are, removed learning curve,

not just default, taylored to support your needs for some part of your runway

experts at helping people grow your business

we’ve got all that experience

you could start with small vps, dare I say shared hosting account, specialists at highly complex set ups

we help guide our customers into those solutions

we have the way we want to do things…do these complex set ups, end up writing wikis for each client

TP: definitely just blew my mind, dream come true, never would have thought that far out of the box, foot bound by all my experienced about 20 years, web master, designer, always renting, bouncing from one nightmare meltdown to another

BM: gap from when where you’re buying before and where you could be buying may be 10s of dollars

…we’ll do the whole move for you, we’ll move em you test tem

TP: want to get into some weeds with some of your tech guys, gonna make the commitment to make the migration as soon as possible, mind has been blown

the thing that is the deal breaker that sounds like you’re able to soothe my stress around these deal breakers

BM: satisfaction guarantee

I want your complete satisfaction

we’re all human, mistakes do get made, work for a client, work hard for them

with us, we are always going the extra step

mistakes are made, happens some times, important to us that we own it, responsibility, apology, real explanation

very subjective from there on out

get very few requests for invoice credits

my hope is we’re always having a conversation

corrective measures so doesn’t happen in future

things come up, issue at next staff meeting,

something really bad does happen, wanting to overcompensate, can’t insure somebody’s whole business….do best we can

TP: what I could hope for is something almost unimaginable in other paradigms, what I’ve always wanted to do is actually have the engineers behind the delivery of my content, have the master plan of threat model, growth trajectory, proactive about hedging risk, move slowly, absorb surprise scaling, client-consultant relationship, within reason is bundled within hosting plan, wiki for client, that’s the level of now we’re talking high level , intimate codevelopment of a brand

BM: even if you did find another good host, give attention, whole experience breaks down at initial sales process, sales person…

cool thing about mojohost, we all work together when needed, depending on clients needs, not managing to monthly bonus, no trickery, not trying to upsell, scaled business without that, doesn’t work to my benefit in some ways, long term establishes rapport with customers, trust them with business

very consistent experience

if you’re business changes on the fly, get some crazy social media, something goes viral, we figure out all that billing shit afterwards, if it’s an event already happening, happening now, post mortem, we can figure, this is maybe how we need to change your plan, resources

very fluid, if you’re going down or up….

Make changes retroactively, bigger, smaller, which ever direction it needs to go

TP: great general overview, I’m sold, I’m moving forward, honestly having corey on your team is all it took, wonderful vibe from you

my biggest wet dream is to have sophisticated penetration testing/red teaming, sure you have access to the kind of people who would be trust worthy in that department, hesitant to go shopping for pen testers not knowing if they’re just gonna have a good old time, joy riding my site backwards and forwards, installing back doors, a lot of trust in that kind of stuff

BM: we take a very interesting approach, within your desire to do that, experiences in the past, fears of the future, best place to take that conversation, could happen in support ticket, we could talk through and explain over the phone, Vps, any of the guys on our staff, really nerds, love what they do, understand your business, what the risks are

when we install on server, not default install, its a mojo installation, no ssh or ftp access unless ip is white listed

part of list of best practices on how we want to deploy service, I’m warrantying your whole service on my network and hosting company

sometimes might mean you may ask for something and we say no, always a reason for it, always based on experience, doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways to accomplish what the clients want to do

happy to help any way we can

TP: gives me chills, want to not have a million options that open me up to all kinds of fuckery, want a very hardened experience

have people with more experience watching over it, being that war room

BM: first thing you truly want to look at , what’s all the software you’re running on your server

battle tested software solutions in adult space, serve us very well, maybe ongoing cost …some upfront fee, but you’re buying something that’s been installed on 1000s of sites, storage cloud, cdn, turn key

a lot of security stuff comes down to good software choice and bad software choices

hard way seems like easy way…cheap plugins

different trade offs

we can help clients, guide into make right choice for business at right point in time

I boot strapped my business, understand what it’s like

have to remember, trying to build an environment for self, predictability, scalability, safety, follow path others have gone before you, its a good way to go, expert level experience

software that’s been battle tested

10s of millions, 100s of millions of vistors a day

bad programming makes for bad hosting

always gonna be working hard to compensate for bad programming

people miss point of that

don’t see how much extra its costing them to use something they could have paid a little more upfront for that’s gonna work better

TP: pay the farmer or pay the doctor, ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure, how much does it cost for the average data breach settlement, pay upfront for more hardening, security,

BM: appreciate being on podcast

TP: can’t get enough

BM: mojohost.com, international, mojohost.eu, two separate portals

have conversation with us

sales@mojohost.com, copies whole team, someones always working or watching their email

skype call or zoom call, want to learn more about your business, experience in the past

use all of our experience to make the best solution that meets your budget and your technical requirements

make your hosting free while you’re doing a move

concerned about quality job, customers number 1 over here

affiliate program pays really well

can set people up as an affiliate, referral, code, 8% residual, very personable here

TP: xbiz show, andaz hotel, rooftap rager, mojohost, silverstein legal party, had that good time, coming full circle, can’t thank you enough, corey enough, look forward to next steps, having you on again soon

 

Allie Eve Knox pic

Revolutionizing Adult Industry Payments with Allie Eve Knox of SpankChain TPP251

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In this episode I’m joined by Allie Eve Knox, VP of Sales at SpankChain for a exploration of her crypto journey and her role at the illustrious SpankChain crypto company

Allie is a Fetish Performer, Content Creator, VP of Sales at SpankChain

My Non Verbatim Show Notes:

allie nox vp sales

super in debt,grad school, camming at night, do it house, didn’t have to sit in traffic

2014,

started shooting porn

custom videos, out of bedroom, camming

2017 found spank chain

got in fight with somebody on twitter,

you should hire me, sent resume, i work her now, these are the things i’m gonna do

coming into start up tech space, adult liaison, didn’t know how to deal with my dominatrix character

working with them since ICO

putting out a bunch of pr

we were so strange

aliens in the room

realized, people

weren’t assimilated into tech

did an ico in ico days 2017,

white paper, cam site, crypto only camsite, launched beta april 2018, no privates, no personal chat, site looked really good

beta for a year

discovered, shit hit the fan with crypto, started tanking, people stopped wanting to spend

hard to find user base to part with money

credit card payments brought in more traffic

user account process, get key phrases, all typical crypto stuff

people were really confused by it, constantly losing there stuff

had to completely overhaul the back end

took camsite down, launched few products

hopefully will be bring cam site back up

now first version, model profiles build off of that , where cam site and clip site built on

find favorite model

just put out very first version at AVN

model’s able to get own custom link,

here’s my link pay me through there

links to video content

basically whatever you want

so many benefits in crypto

I’ve had all my accounts shut down, I was violating the rules for selling panties or content

started taking crypto

no one’s gonna protect the adult industry

spankchain, we’re gonna make this for the adult industry

everything’s anonymous, not a thing where I wife is gonna find his credit card purchases

won’t get shut down, low fees

some sites take 50%

credit card processing, we pay taxes

with crypto we just take a 1% fee, .5% for merchants

stable coin, super exciting

really simple cash out process

wills done excellent job of making user experience super easy and intuitive

appreciate community coming together

building a platform models want to use

charge backs, all typical shit

take you’re finances

booty stable coin

really nice to count on,

really nice if I have $250 goal it’s gonna be the same price

whatever you bring in, minus 1% fee

at first didn’t have this on camsite in beta

having to explain price fluctuation

models want to know how to sell things

we just want to make it work, all the technical stuff I don’t know, it doesn’t matter

that’s all I need

I don’t really know how cash works or

don’t have anybody we partner with

gemini sex worker friendly

really good dealings with them

still have to go through exchange, kyc all those things

but I can kind of tease this, we are working on regulations for fiat offramp

load up on spank pay, go and pay bill

going through regulatory process on that, we’ll know mid march

due diligence, paperwork on all that

started camming, paid out on pay card

I could just go cash out automatically

really save me in times when I needed to get paid

that’s really gonna open doors for people

if we start seeing it in everyday practice showing friends

really hope that’s what’s coming next, h

we’re gonna clone product for other people in adult

cannabis, having a hell of a time with payments

there always getting fucked too, we’re gonna co-brand a product, like a white label

we targeted the people who needed this product

we wanted to build the things that the people needed

adult really needed it

this is what we’re all stoked on, this is how we live our lives

the bigger picture is white label it for whoever wants it

start with adoption for people who really need it

people who are unbankable

kind of a solution to a whole lot of problems

urge community to participate in this

send crypto on this

for me, someone in my camroom taught me how to use crypto

2018 started showing up different attitudes towards crypto

adult is always the forefront of technology

maybe if it takes off only a handfull will use it,

never came in there, we’re gonna change the game, we’re another solution we can solve a few problems, we’re hear, we don’t wanna fight

showing up year after year, friendly, hang out with models, provided good community

people started to take us more seriously

started winning awards, good press, kind of the black sheep, kinda strange ones

we were like the red headed step children of the industry

we kept showing up being friendly and cool, putting out products

markets have crashed but we’re still here

a little easier this last year, proven numbers, partners that really like us

been kind of a turning point

now its t

camsite didn’t have a lot of features

small team

takes a long time to do a lot of really cool shit

gave a space for people do do whatever they wanted

people slept

people garden

crypto allows you to do whatever the hell you want

free speech

so open, accepting

it was a no pressure zone, be yourself

smoke, eat

no ranking, no cam score

people were able to monetize it

one time, battle test on site, everybody on at the same time

we want you to break shit, push buttons all be streaming at the same time

spank house, going in tipping,

models streaming, we built this fucking product, spent every moment of our lives

really cool, everybody in this moment, so proud, so thankful model

spank house corporate culture

boys lived in venice beach, had a loft, had extra bedroom, most of team was remote

people would sleep on couches, get together a week a month, bang through things

boys had that place until this winter, downsized, it was a really great spot where the whole team could be together

we’re still remote, devs in canada, I’m in texas, to get team together on call once a week is not enough

company culture, spend a lot of time together, hang out together eat together, work together

we all get together and spend time together

working on this product, lived and breathed

I have a spank chain shirt,

we still have a problem, and have to build a solution

if eth is at 100 or 1000, still that problem out there, no one else is gonna do it

no one else has stepped up

we’re going to work every last second we possibly can

that’s one reason I’m still in this

I need someone to help me protect my money

I need this product

I will work tirelessly to make this product

this what drives every person on the team

whatever that markets gonna do

full force, here are the things we’re gonna do

market has changed so much

What a Shaman Sees In the Souls of Mobile App Millenials with Christina Pratt TPP191

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Christina Pratt picIn this episode I’m joined again by one of my most revered shamanic practitioner Christina Pratt, this time for a discussion about the effects of social media and other mobile apps on the development of the psyche and soul. She shares a wealth of insights into the multi-dimensionality of the issues and provides guiding lights of hope for how we can be in right relationship with our techno toys and tools.

We both share a sense of deep appreciation for the ancient technology that is the natural human imagination stimulated by nature, direct contact with the spirit world, and the experience of spoken story.

Please visit her websites at:
http://whyshamanismnow.org/
http://lastmaskcenter.org/

About Christina:
Thirty years ago with, a full cosmology of spirit help, Christina, brought forward The Cycle of Transformation, an extremely challenging, four-year training in the shamanic skills needed to create the New World in our time. She is the founder and primary shamanic healer at Last Mask Center (www.lastmaskcenter.org) in Portland, Oregon and the author of the two-volume set, An Encyclopedia of Shamanism.  Christina’s international, live-Internet radio show, Why Shamanism Now, offers over 350 hours of free podcasts on the practical application of shamanism in the archives at (www.whyshamanismnow.com).

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved welcome to Township hunt podcast episode 191 I’m being joined Again by Christina Pratt who is one of my greatest most respected heroes in the shamanic community and a very prolific author and educator and practitioner and has training programs and and lots of amazing things that that I hope to Avail myself with some point in the future for now I’m just a big fan of her podcasts and MC bless this podcast back on episode number 125 but I was called demystifying the mechanisms of shamanic healing and it was a great intro to her personal background and her work and we got into some really core foundational Concepts within shamanic healing and I feel like that’s a really one of my favorite episodes of please do go back and listen to that for reference to Cristina’s work in more detail and to give a bit of a context for why we’re speaking again now a really it the inclination I had to reach out to her again to do another podcast it came within a couple of days of when I pretty much deleted all of the social social media applications from my phone and could give myself a real juxtaposition of how rigged up my nervous system had become an is addictive dopamine cycles of refreshing thing clicking on things and trying to keep up with the Joneses and on social media and how just absolutely perverse it felt and how Aunt it’s antithetical to my my values my deeper core values is like from deep ecology and Ann turkel primitivism in Neo luddism and things that were a lot easier to attach to as as political ideologies before everybody sort of got pushed and sucked into this this hyper cyber eyes the Internet connected world that over the last 20 it’s just sort of been this creeping phenomenon and so with his breath of fresh air I said all I got it I’ve got to ask Christina Christina to come on and talk about what a shamanic perspective from her perspective would be really more of a multidimensional perspective on what’s happening to our souls and what’s happening to the fragmentation of ourselves as we get sucked into these networks and then they betray us and all of the sort of issues that are coming up around humans relating human sexuality human self-esteem and answer character building and all these things I’m sure I just knew she would have a lot to say about it and so I’m excited to to have you back Christina and thank you for joining us again and if you would please give us one of your beautiful kind of incantation introductions help us get censored in the moment so we can look straight to look at these these issues from a good place alright alright engine tations alrighty then take a nice deep breaths and bring your awareness into your mind and another nice deep breath and sink your awareness into your heart and another nice deep breath and exhale and sync your awareness down into your belly and from your belly imagine your ability to reach down deeply into the center of the earth as if you were a lotus flower floating upon upon your little lily pad with your stem reaching down into the center of the earth and connecting deeply into the Earth and drawing up nourishment and Rejuvenation from the Earth and then without rising up and out of your head let’s just stay here in our bodies and let your awareness rise up that stand into the leaf of a lily and into the flowers of this Lily and as as the Lily that you are just opens here radiant and resplendent in your your simple beautiful blossoming Beauty allow the Rays of the Sun or perhaps you prefer the Rays of the Moon perhaps Starlight let this energy come down and touch your pedals and your lily pad and let yourself be open and receiving of the radiant energy from above and then just allow yourself as these above energies bra in the blessing and protection and the below energy straw up your nourishment and Rejuvenation that these energies kind of mix and merge there in that flower let that flower be present in your own belly I’m with another nice deep breath just have a sense of reaching out to the energies around us that we are here in a world that is alive with Spirits many many different kinds of spirit energies or life-force energy has many different frequencies however you want to think about it and just let yourself be present in this world relationship to other things and yet aware of where you end and these other things begin let that radiant Lily that you are have it space and be sure that you feel strong in yourself to take that space to show up to be here to take space be present in your life and to come into an even closer knowing of why you’re here what has value and meaning in your life and make sure that you lived this day in a way that serves those things that have purpose and meaning and value to your own thank you so much for that that was a beautiful a beautiful Journey I’ve been in the journey Space 2 degree now thank you for taking us there and I guess I’d like to ask there’s a couple of a couple of aspects one would be your personal thoughts and musings on just the evolution of communications technology throughout your life experience and acceleration and just your your lens on on that on that process and then and then we can talk about hopefully what in your practice working with people what you’re seeing is sort of the the case studies of people who are struggling with the the rapid acceleration of these Technologies and I’m curious like what’s showing up on your caseload so to speak and your classes whether it’s your clients are your students what you’re observing within the next Generation as as younger people are really being formed and shaped by the stick by the technologies that we can talk about how does that sound podcast and the way in which listeners who took it seriously many of them because I guess they felt they needed to that was that lonely person on the you know oil rigs in Alaska are some sort of cracking place or somewhere where they’re really frustrated with the situation that they’re in and they feel alone there in it being able to reach out to podcasts like yours like mine and to receive some sort of Lifeline that could keep their soul alive in these sometimes remote I’m sometimes not necessarily remote but some of Solace places that people can find themselves few days and people took some of these shows and frankly some of them did more with a sequence of podcast and some of my students doing my for your truck really interesting letters from different people I won’t go into all the details with the point of all of that was they taught me that we can use the technology in a good way and then when we do that it’s it can be a Lifeline to people and so that’s really inspired me to be willing to explore and not just say this is ridiculous why are we bothering would be really easy for me to say so so that’s the first Pieces Just Two recognizing that technology isn’t a replacement for what we don’t have it extends what we do have that’s how I tend to think about it so the podcast for example extend my reach as a teacher to to speak to people but also even Define people to resonate as student to that piece of information that’s shared in that podcast is that the same as studying with me for four years of course not but doesn’t mean it’s not a thing in its own right and so so the podcast allows that extension of the teaching eye because of the podcast and the audience that created I I took a step into teaching some of the things that I teach in online classes and online classes allow me to teach incrementally in a more natural whey versus always sees intensive download experiences when you come for a weekend or week and do everything all at once and still allows for a more organic step by step learning experience and so there’s even some advantages from the online learning and so these are just two examples of using the technology that is present and in a sense if I use the teaching example I didn’t really start doing it until the technology evolve to making it easy for us to offered live so that there could be alive components cuz that’s the piece that’s always what we already are it can be a great value where we use it to create something we aren’t or to spill avoid in our lives or to create something that we don’t already have we enter into a more addictive or codependent relationship with the technology or simply using the technology amplifier false self which we do a good enough job on our own we don’t need amplifier problem so so a lot of it then boils down to what is our relationship with technology and how are we using it and are we educating ourselves around the technology itself so so that to me is kind of the key place of being in right relationship with it now if we take that it just a step further make a circle back if you want to but a step further is recognizing that in Shamanism we actively engaged in in making the our relationships with everything around us real mean Shamanism is based in animism everything around is alive with its own kind of life force and that the way for us to be in the world respectfully is to is to honor and recognize those other life forces and do our best to be in relationship with them and there’s a series of podcast with Kelly Harrell is another amazing practitioner in North Carolina and shamanic practitioner and she and I have been talking about the influence masses of humanity can have on larger spirits so we’re particularly talking about spirits of the culture and of the land and of different places in this but the the gist of those conversations was the realization that our life isn’t sort of the way it’s presented through core Shamanism like the spirit world is this fixed thing and we can go visit there and basically no matter how we trash around we won’t break anything but what Kelly and I were saying is that that’s not what we’re experiencing and exploring in these toxins that that’s not really real that we are in relationship with the invisible world and that over time it is possible for us unintentionally or intentionally to begin to influence it in other words we can play very heavily on an energy in our environment to the degree that that energy in our environment eventually morphs or adjust in some way to to respond to our sort of giving it a responsibility that it isn’t supposed to have in so my point in bringing that up because it really speaks to how Humanity in its worst manifestations affects the world around us even those energies we would go to to seek help to get out of our worst manifestations you know so that should put a raise people’s red flag and there are there awareness of we don’t really have the luxury to be as messed up as we want to be for as long as we want to be taking as many lifetimes as we want to learn how to be a good human we really need to get with the program so that’s my little subjects there but the point of technology is what I what I realized after these calls with Kelly and I are the podcast with Charlie I thought oh wait a minute Christina you are in relationship with the spirit of technology in a bigger and bigger way in your life and in your work as weird as that is given that all of your work is Shamanism you need to get right with your in your relationship with the spirit of Technology and as I was getting ready to do the first online class I really saw clearly up our object for the spirit of technology and each of my classes We Begin by acknowledging the spirit of technology and asking it to support us but also asking it to grow up with us asking it to come it’s a young or our current technology that you and I are specifically talking about technology like a hammer or a Wheel Technologies electronic mostly computer-based internet-based Technologies is a relatively new and so they’re kind of Adolescent and they don’t really know if you think about it as a spirit it doesn’t really know who it is yet and that if we could come to it intentionally and with you know real Spears love and our heart and help to to grow it up as we might grow up a adolescent child with incredible power and really ask the spirit of technology to work with us to find out how it takes its place in the web of life as something that supports the web of life now we are not very good at that either right we’re kind of a pain in the existence of the web of life right now on the planet and it pretty big way and so in a sense we both need to grow up humanity and Technology need to grow up to understand how to how to take their rightful place in that Web of Life in a way that supports all life and I think technology could do that you’re back to me puts me in this really hopeful place of creativity and possibility and I think well how can I be involved in doing that and it in it puts me in a much better relationship with technology than a place I can get into very easily which is wanting to throw it across the room that’s not a very healthy mature relationship you want to throw things he is really recognizing that we aren’t just like guns right we are not talking about the thing itself being the problem but what we are doing with it the relationship that we are in with it is it another platform for us to express our power irresponsibly or is it an opportunity for me to express my power with responsibility alright well thank you so much for that discourse in I tend to agree and I really like that you were bringing the word Spirit to it a lot of people who would consider that to be or to new age or something would would cringe at the notion of or even people who are within the more sort of stereotypically spiritual and if things would say all know Tech is so lifeless and Solace and but really it’s a it’s an expression of human creativity so it’s almost like that that sort of semantic game of is anything unnatural because it came from nature kind of a thing so so I do from a domestic perspective I appreciate we can’t I mean it would be I think pretty foolish to deny that there are spiritual energies and intelligences around all of our inventions and if it’s not just the embodiment for the imbuing of that person’s intention into something that is to put his that is not no longer biological or if it’s kind of also something you’re saying about I mean what I’m seeing just thinking about it is that we’re creating all of our actions thoughts dreams inventions Technologies they’re creating some sort of dynamic relationship with the Unseen World and they’re the living astral plane and so we may be creating these certainly if these tickets if some of these social media apps are causing extreme unprecedented levels of teen suicide than there are entities that are crowding around these opportunities to hack and mess with and opportunistically take advantage of these new reached astral bodies if you will I don’t know if that’s so if you want to go in that direction but I think it would be great to talk more about this Dynamic interplay that you’re touching on between how we it’s not just like this that we are totally separate from the other side or the Ethereal plane but they’re actually were in a dynamic with them and we may be altering them and pull them anyway so those are my words but I love to hear what you have to say that continue that thread interesting when people in their spiritual lives in basically commit the same errors that they would accuse you know academics are politicians of making but because it’s in the service of their spirituality somehow it’s not a problem that I don’t have spirit I don’t I don’t know there was any human being who does know like that so interesting ly what is it called human-centric which always gives us in trouble I think there’s a really funny moment in a podcast with David Franklin Farkas on that he has a guest and he’s talking about working with space he does a lot of work with space and space clearing and he was talking about really just how he discovered that everything has spirit and he cuz he was of the same mind that certain things didn’t but he really discovered as he did works at that was really kind of a foolish and naive perspective and she has this really funny thing about talking to the spirit of a microwave oven because he’s responding about the qualities of that Spirit you go yeah that’s a microwave that’s not a puppy you know anyway so my point about all of this is that we really need to be aware of the nature of our relationships with things so first for example to understand that designers of apps for our phones that. The operating principle is you want to design an app that is the first thing a person does when they wake up and the last thing they do when they go to bed and it feels you know the time in between okay that’s like creating a designer drug and I don’t mean a drug for shamanic you know spiritual experience I mean a drug to get people hooked so you make money and so part the thing about using these things is we need to be educated intelligent consumers me to have healthy boundaries as we need to have with all other advertising me in and the problem with being a kid using these things is they’re not there yet and so we as the adults need to figure out how are we managing that role in the lives of our children which I already just now I’m rolling my eyes because there’s a whole lot about our role as adults that we’re not managing in the lives of our children are not even supervised anymore University doing a training and University students from all over the world it was really exciting environment to be in and out at mealtime the kids tended to sit with their friends from their own country and whatever training programme Rihanna whatever and was very interesting to see the difference culturally with these kids that were mostly like High school-age kids and their phones are certain cultures no funds on the table everybody’s talking and laughing and you know just this side of a food fight and you know enjoying each other and then other cultures wherever it was absolutely everybody is on their phone just eating the mindlessly eating and looking at what’s on your phone I was very culturally specific sad but also really interesting to realize that there are places in the world that are way healthier than we are 17 different kinds of coffee you can have in the morning but they don’t have them are just not addicted to them cuz they have different cultural standards but yeah you you’re absolutely right in that you know our kids do learn to do what we do not what we say I am so it’s really hard to enforce some sort of boundaries around your phone use when you’re on your phone at dinner too turn in restaurant all the time soon as the people who would say that I guess it’s not it’s not you don’t have to be Ted Kaczynski to have a critique of of these things that that everyone can witness and the articles in mainstream obviously magazines and what not and I always just leading up to this conversation I was thinking about how trying to just take myself mentally in a time machine back before there were back before people had this before cell phones are ubiquitous and and I was fully grown at adult before cell phones even the so-called dumb phones where you could barely text message even before that and it was just knew you would someone was home or they weren’t home and so that would determine your plans for the night or if you’re going to do a delivery you’re going to use a Thomas Brothers guide to figure out what you’re going in life was a lot slower and and into some degree I would say more more pleasant and more interconnected and if you wanted to have a good time you had to kind of earn it and work for it and go out and and be forced to go out forced to go find places where people are gathering and sewed I have Nostalgia for that in my lifetime and it’s I guess it’s easy for me to still remember that and have some context on this but even now it says the so-called Millennials or are just the internet natives they say I guess the people who are born into Google and the Google ization of I guess you could call whatever you want but but I feel like it’s it’s almost past say now or it’s cliche to have a to lament maybe not the loss of the golden age before this but certainly lament just the all of the all of the road the increasing in an in an accident on my stuff there’s just so many indicators that are undeniable cisno long is no longer really this contentious debate where you need you know you need to have some extreme radicalism to challenge this stuff but what I what I feel like is missing from from this dialogue is what you would bring as a more shamanic perspective is to what what’s happening if you were to do the cross section of the astral body and the soul and to sort of the United States early to to scare people straight or to shock them although This Bitter from a small degree of a few just a couple few weeks now it’s saying what will this is I feel very violated by my own of all people I should have been I should have known better not to have gotten so sucked into this dysmorphia and his character Distortion of keeping up with the Joneses at a pace that’s just impossible to and you just start to merge with this this device and then you were living in this augmented reality of ranking and scoring and everything is a leaderboard and and so anyway you’re taking a step back from that and I’m and I have to think about how did I know better and what should I know about her and how am I going to not fall into that trap again and so I think about how K now that I have this moment of Sanity I want to sort of build in those healthier adaptive strategies and have more of a sensitivity to what it feels like when you’re being manipulated by your own your own neurochemistry right and that’s just on the the sort of physical print out playing but it but you would want to talk more about Soul loss and what your conception of how the soul Parts get caught up in our cycle dramas in their sexual dramas in in our personality ego structures and just what what you would see from that lends as his what’s happening in America in transition a bit to to what you’re what you’re experiencing if you have to a people away from their their phones when you’re trying to teach them in a class or if you have people coming to you for for care and counseling and and healing who are in mashed and some in this sort of digital Fabric and how it’s affecting their at them at the soul level I think that are important relative what you’re asking the the simpler one in a sense would be you know how do I manage that technology with my students because I do I can think of two students right now absolutely speed Wizards taking their notes on their phone when I can barely read my phone at my age and and in really complex and wonderful ways and that supports their process and so part of that piece is okay here are students to understand they need to not be connected to the internet while they’re doing this but they can certainly use this as a means by which they’re going to take their notes and track what’s going on and that I have to be as a teacher not annoyed by that but they also have to not annoy me by having it make sounds having finding seen that they’re not really listening to me they’re really checking their Facebook page that was that person wouldn’t get a second chance for me to stop like if you were in my class checking your Facebook page instead of paying attention when people write you need to leave cuz you’re not remotely mature enough to be that you can’t not check your Facebook page for 4 hours some people just had a heart attack just so you know if water is the people who just heard that and when they thought they imagined for hours without checking Facebook back to your heart of I think the piece that you’re the missing here is people that have no boundaries with this tool none whatsoever and so this is why this matters mean we can go into it from that way but that’s kind of a long walk let’s take a short pass the short path is this we need to put ourselves in the context of our purpose of our souls reason for being here and to do things in our life that allow us to express our actual reason for being here is what fills our life with meaning and purpose so there is nothing else not on your phone not on Facebook not there is no other substitute not drugs not not relationships not anything that will substitute you bringing yourself into context with your Soul’s purpose and so to the extent that technology just becomes one other way you’re avoiding doing that or Worse creating a false idea that you are your only making the Contemporary issue worse because this is already a huge contemporary issue for people to be able to track who they are and why they’re here now part of that is because they come to their young adults were already in a state of Soul loss and for many many people there so lost does have a certain relationship with their why they’re their purpose and why they’re here so so to been moved from a place that’s already estate of so lost into these false versions of connection of intimacy of intimacy with yourself of trying to find your soul purpose out there by clicking on the surveys and things on the internet all of that is just an ongoing sofa tray and so part of understanding the damage that is being done by the technology is not anything new in the sense that it’s just one more profoundly addictive and distracting way the Contemporary people avoid the personal work required to come to right relationship with their soul and then to maintain that right relationship as a guide in what they choose to do with their lives and their many Millennials who would go look lady I am working three jobs just to try to pay a ridiculously high rent and my phone bill and pay for my marijuana and you know he’s other things that are considered necessary for contemporary life like well I understand that that doesn’t change the fact that you are a soul who chose to inkarnate at this time so these are the challenges that you are choosing to have to deal with just as I chose that is a mile and the fact that the world kind of sucks is not an excuse to not deal with the ways the world sucks and the way that gives you a possibility to either be diverted from your soul purpose or you use the world around you as the raw material to get to your soul purpose and so and so’s purpose isn’t about follow your bliss and have a happy life Soul Purpose is a really challenging way of life that is cultivated but the reason to bother is that it does have deeply Soul satisfying meaning and purpose it makes it gives us a life in which we feel still that’s a human being and we believe that we’ve matter and that’s really what we want and that’s a really challenging thing to create in our Contemporary American world at this time because the culture around you is not encouraging that you do that and even many of the spiritual practices that you would think would be encouraging you to do that or actually encouraging you to follow their rules and to bypass that deep work that would bring you to your own personal uniqueness and unique genius and maybe not be so willing to follow along so the problem with the aspect of Technology you’re talking about is that it’s a light out of context you’re not in contacts with your own soul purpose I would never post anything about as deeply intimate as my sole purpose work on any of the social media platforms is totally inappropriate nobody would so it’s not helping me so so think about it like Google is kind of a wonderful thing it’s wonderful to be able to get pieces of information when you need them as long as it’s accurate which is another issue okay but that information is completely out of context and into the meaning of information changes relative to its context so the meaning of you as a person in the world changes relative to your contacts in your proximity to your Soul’s purpose and so again these activities any addiction drives us away from our purpose because we’re repeating that thing that were addicted to instead of getting at the uniqueness and the innovation of our actual Soul Purpose and so this the piece of the technology that you’re talking about right now create this false idea and for those people that are young and naive and don’t have parents actually modeling something different they don’t even necessarily know it’s a false idea that’s Rudy’s online groups and online activities in all of this stuff that there’s somehow going to create a true sense of the things I have meaning and value to their heart and my experience is that the things that have meaning and value to my heart are not found outside of that context of me as an embodied human in my heart I need to be in the world I need to be connected to people need to be connected to the energies around me and Technology as one of those energies but it can’t take over and spill all of my my porch if you will for connection to other things if it it can’t it can’t be my sole interface with other things unless we’re talking about someone who has some sort of challenge in their life so that technology is literally the only connection to other things right but that’s all she does let some people who would otherwise not be able to connect to connect but really what we’re talking about is people that are addicted to their technology that are not in a relationship with technology and so what is doing then is taking people that are already arriving in their young adult life in a state of Soul Los usually estate of really poor energy body hygiene and worse than that not very clear idea about what is actually going on here energetically as a person in the world and is sold as a lot of huge misinformation and all of that Googling around and traipsing about the internet there’s a lot of really bad as in really inaccurate information and so people are arriving at that place with with scads of bad information around them inaccurate information around them with no skills no ability to discern and then engaging in these platforms that take them even further from their Center and further from the truth and so it’s certainly not helping but it’s also taking that passion that we have in our twenties to find our purpose and do what we have what has real meaning to our heart it burns that passion out so it’s not so much that I see people necessarily more fragmented because of it it’s more that I see people’s fire to do anything about it being frazzled and burned out that I see their focus dispersed that I see there Lerner that’s trying to learn and understand what’s really going on here completely distorted with Vault ideas and really toxic understanding of what it is to be here as a spirit in the world of sleep kind of simple easy to do but simple that’s more my sense is that that via the information we get from these platforms and our engagement in these platforms our own energy structure and our desire and our heartfelt Focus all of these inner qualities that in the past would just in the past what would happen if someone would just go I keep falling into this pattern let me see the heater that can help me deal with this find Charmin get Soul retrieval get Soul Park Bark in a great stop falling into the pattern closer to Soul Purpose mean it was a pretty simple you know here in the physical world action and now people get on really convoluted Pathways before they make it to my door and they’ve done so much greater damage to themselves following those Pathways energetically I mean what I want to make steering is not so much more so long is because there’s already a ton of so lost when I’m experiencing is people who are creating mental illness that they don’t actually have that’s more what I see I’m energetic and mental mental emotional going from a place of mental and emotional discomfort which is pretty typical for someone who’s 18 19 20 years old in America to a place of where they’ve actually gone through mental and wellness mental emotional and wellness into a state of mental illness that they’re now getting Pharmaceuticals for Why does adding a whole nother level of distraction from Center and I’m not carte blanche saying Pharmaceuticals are bad when I’m talking about is someone who’s created the state of mental illness simply through their use of technology that they don’t really have and so now they’re getting these really strong chemicals into their body and into their brain really for no reason because they aren’t actually the kind of person who has a biochemical reason for those right you know this is something just came up for me as you’re talking about this really this all kids close to home in a lot of ways and I’m trying to think about how this conversation with people who are growing up now in this Ambience of internet-connected devices in Google information and all of the all these platforms were talking about and someone said not too long ago, where I heard this but it was it was kind of like every generation is going to have this resistance by the old curmudgeons you know who say back in my day and I was like this it was harder you had to work harder to do XYZ and now it’s easier because it Technologies to your spoiled and then there’s this sort of bitterness going both ways about you don’t you’re imposing these outdated values on me and you don’t get it and then so something that was kind of a record point of reconciliation between the generations that I heard recently was just this notion of where ya at people’s parents said the same thing about comic books when comic books were distracting us from their homework and they’re so perfect that whatever it was and it makes me even think about will the the juxtaposition between literacy and the printing press and literacy and how that would allow them to think about the whole some good old days of women read romance novels and boys stereotypically gendered Etc reading comic books and and the sort of what I would like to say well with a healthier template would be a slower data stream coming through Reading text where you would do no just have you wouldn’t have 50 books and magazines that you were you were relentlessly swapping to actually make an analogy you would have to for the amount of data streams you would have to be having a million TV channels and a hundred bucks a hundred magazines and a bunch of conference calls and things that you were just tapping through that was that was a novice a possible in my area of growing up and and there was just a more protected. Of pre-internet books and magazines and and social events that you would physically have to go out to and you could only do that maybe once once a couple times a week and so you know I’m just looking at this sort of what what are the essential patterns that that kind of are recursive throughout time and have a sort of cyclical pattern going on and in something that that hit me just now as a member there was a point where I remember clearly where I was at a birthday gift was someone took me out to the Wilderness on a hike of a mountain and I was so glued to video games at that time even their primitive state what we would consider very primitive now it was in they say this about pornography to they say that the therapist are saying that it’s a quote supra-normal or supernormal experience that you set a standard to and then being intimate with a real life human being doesn’t cut it for you because you’re you’re nervous system is so jacked up on these these completely artificially induced levels of chemistry that you couldn’t experience otherwise known as being generated by this computer interface so you know for me I remember how disappointed I was when I was going to be almost dragged out into nature to go on a hike and how absolutely DeLand dead and boring and even lifeless that experience was and how how betrayed I felt that that I would have to have section non-adventurous in an exciting experience and and it was all because I would just have rather have been sitting there playing a video game when I was getting spiked with all these I’m killing someone I’m being killed I’m maker not making some sort of digital gold value and I’m all of these buttons of teen pushed and I’m just at a rate that was that was unprecedented and so this virtual I guess it’s the virtualization of of the things that motivate our nervous system pleasure and seeking pleasure avoiding pain and whatnot and and another plastic came to me was just this this idea of whenever I whenever I’ve looked at the Tabloid covers of you know the Tabloid news stands in the aisles at the supermarket throughout my entire life I just felt this toxic losing Force this presents won’t talk about a spirit of something and I just could feel it and it was never and it was obviously Bogus Basin the fake block Ness monster stuff and then all of the drama and it was so over-the-top hype that it was easy to resist that I can never felt compelled to his to get sucked into that vortex but now that I see you it’s happened really is that everybody has made this like a tabloid ization of every individual and there’s an endless market for it and just this monstrosity it’s feeding on everybody the same impulse that you would have had to open up that tabloid is now you aren’t you have become the Tabloid and you want the more attention you get onto your digital tabloid Persona online and all these different platforms there more validation you’re getting and it’s just as it’s just Nick seems to be like you said about the designer drugs are just manipulating these low-hanging fruit aspects of our lower self that was more of just a rant you know something to put on a fit if you have I don’t wait around here and there well actually I want you to go back to the first part of that that you said about the idea that it’s cyclical and every generation thinks you know the younger generation looks ridiculous in their passion or whatever like that I mean obviously at the same time there is science behind how visual images and training ourselves through Visual images is actually affecting our minds that there’s so where the difference between the generations is this meat to this programming the brain to the repetition of visual images and we start talking about something different entirely and it’s not even just a different kind of fruit it’s like the difference between fruit and a tank and so they’re there is a study and I can’t pull out the actual specifics about where someone could go Google it right now maybe someone could go find it and tell me they found it so I can do that but basically in the study they were looking at the kill rate in World War II versus the kill rate of Vietnam and they found that in World War II that the honest truth was that most soldiers would rather take someone prisoner than kill them and so the kill rate was very low like 20% or something and that wasn’t acceptable for Vietnam they wanted to figure out how to train soldiers to go for a higher kill rate and what they found were was training them through a visual interface which is of course the technology that preceded video games and so basically when people are playing you know violent video games that are teaching them to not to override their natural instinct to not show people or things will never have I ever the game is that you’re basically being train your natural human instinct is being trained out of you to be a better killer and to not hesitate and that actually they change the kill rate for family through that training and Vietnam just something like 70% or 80% in the numbers which is frightening and at the same time you also had guys that went to Vietnam that I said look I don’t care what you do I don’t care about a dishonorable discharge get me out of this situation and send me back home so part of it is this really understanding that there was a conscious there were many conscious choices made that created a change between in a world war kind of way of going about live and Vietnam and our lives since Vietnam and learnt so the same thing is true then operating with porn and how has you were saying it’s training is it’s this visual training that is different from just looking at still pictures the different engagement in our brain it affects our brain differently and and partly another version of this another aspect of study around this is with children who are placed in front of videos instead of red tube instead of being read to sorry he’s my grammar here and that when a child is listening to a story they’re developing the part of their brain that imagines and visualize is in creates the the picture then go with the story that the person is reading but they find that children that are raised by being given pictures so raised on video so the end screen so the screens are being given to that pictures are being given to them they don’t have to develop their imagination okay so from a shamanic perspective this is going to be our downfall perhaps it already is being our downfall because our relationship with the invisible World operates through our brain’s capacity to access its imagination and then how did the spirit world essentially use the imagination to tell us things just the same way we all do when we dream at night and that imaginary dream world is telling us things sometimes things are not really very useful but sometimes but the point is from a shamanic perspective my ability to have a reliable relationship with spirit is driven entirely by my ability to open up my imaginary sense as much as usual but to open up my sensory body to an imaginary experience which then has meaning when it’s interpreted accurately that gives that’s how I gained guidance in my life is how I find a full part of how I know what to do in my own life it’s how I need a program that is going to be able to initiate teenage kids and fix that problem in our culture all of that is created because I have this ability to work in this whole creative relationship with spirit that is absolutely dependent on the part of my brain that imagines show to choose to not develop that part of your brain not develop that part of your children’s brain to allow it to be fed images and not ever develop the capacity to imagine means when that child is a young adult and is trying to imagine a better future they can’t do it they literally can’t do it because they haven’t developed the part of the brain that can imagine anything that they haven’t seen said to them so that aspect the visual aspect of the technology is really problematic and it’s why you get more likes when you post a picture with your posts because we gravitate to these pictures but they’re their eye candy and two even in working in this is how we spell the Visionary state in Shamanism it’s not purely visual the eyes are very easy to trip also and so it’s really about bringing your full Century body into these experiences but if I’ve been having images fed to me my whole sensory body can just be lazy if the soundtrack and the everything is just coming at me the images soundtrack all that I’m I’m not engage my sensory body isn’t engaged my ability to imagine a better future isn’t engaged so all of these qualities that are absolutely essential to living a fulfilling spiritual life are being dead are the visual piece and so in that sense of all it’s just like comic books well not really it isn’t it’s actually highly problematic and so one of the most important things for parents and many of 2013 old people our parents is that you understand this and you make different choices raising your kids the mermaid with you and that you understand that there is a serious effect delete deleterious to having children’s brains raised by video well I just had a a rash of chills when you got to that that point and I think that is probably be beyond the desired effect of what I was looking to create with the designer drug of this podcast switch with two to really address in and treat these issues but that study that you brought in with with the I mean the exit I should say I’m like I’m going to make a note to include this link in the show notes one of the most endearing films of my childhood was the I think we just called toys with Robin Williams and LL Cool J so worried I want to respect your time we’re we covered a lot here and I thank you so much again for for delivering more than I even expected and I think that was the the most potent way to to kind of wine this down with some some real practical advice about about monitoring what we all take in visually I guess I want to ask you now if with whatever time you have left to talk a bit about what you might see as some strategies for I mean lyrics I would say it’s just a simple as well just go out in nature but I was maybe 8 9 10 years old when that didn’t work for me and that was way before the level of sophistication with stick with this with these games and mass jol would go out and play in the woods and I still would do it for its and what not but but it was losing its appeal and so it’s not as simple as you’re saying turn your phone off and go to a yoga retreat or something there’s going to have to be other other steps taken and and you’re very very pragmatic I don’t know I wouldn’t say you’re really kind of you’re grounded you’re not to move about your precious to these things I’m just wondering if you if you have thought about it or if you’re working on something maybe you will develop some sort of some techno fast tree protocol or something but today just curious if you want to end on that some things that are that may help us get out of this this digital quicksand but I offer people would I consider the fundamental step out of that quicksand in an online class that I believe is absolutely essential if people are going to make the shift and be able to come into kind of a into a responsible it kind of relationship with technology that is response all that is powerful but is responsible and I people have to get their however they’re going to get there but I think the idea of just not engaging with it that feast-or-famine has its problem because they were not growing up the spirit of Technology right and while we’re over here trying to not engage with it it’s taking over the world right it was people teaching it to not grow up so I think that part of it is to figure out who do you want to be engaging with technology where where are your boundaries and end-to-end to make some clear decisions on uphold those decisions but mostly I really want to encourage people especially people that are in this I can’t remember what you said was an interesting name of the generation of being raised on the internet but anyway what I really want to encourage people to do is to understand that you read about joy and satisfaction in becoming subversive become a subversive who is Unser do so and if you can do that in your life to become subversive and recognize that you are being completely seduced into being a consumer that’s all that’s going on and that’s so expensive you should be horribly offended by that and want to subvert that system so I really encourage you all this find that inner trickster irrevocably person who wants to subvert A system that thinks so little of you and your unique genius but it just wants to turn you into a shopper it just wants you to consume he wants you to buy the next phone the next app it just sees you as a consumer and be offended by that to become subversive and in that to become unsecured small which means you can engage with whatever you choose to engage with within the boundaries that you set and that relationship of healthy relationships with it whether it’s sex or drugs or technology or whatever and and really draw what is good and true and beautiful and things out of them and not get lost in the swamp and so that would be my my thing as y’all are young you know become beings and change the world it needs to be changed so that’s what I would say Bravo of all that sounds almost tearing up hearing those words didn’t really that’s that’s why I got into punk rock and that’s why I’m still out there trying to to rock the boat however he can and that why we’re having this conversation and yeah this the spirit of wildness will will live on in and again thank you for for just balancing this as well nnn we’re not going to have an effect on the trajectory of this of this technology Technologies if we withdraw and Retreat and lamented in in the in a Shack in the woods yeah we will keep doing our best here will thank you Christina so much yeah I look forward to the next time and it’s really always it’s a blessing to have you share your insights and I will just again recommend that folks please check out why Shamanism Now podcast there will be links here and that you have any other links or anything you want to talk about promotions or anything coming up you want to share we want to find classes there at last mask Center. Org okay and that’s also where to go to get to go why Shamanism now for the podcast directly or so much I had a great time and again look forward to the next time and you have a great and wonderful rest of your evening please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is the seeming and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess temples every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at Contra Punk. Com Thomas Day

Family Counseling and Erotic Media with Dr Carl Shubs TPP61

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carl-shubs-pic In this episode I interview Dr. Carl Shubs, a very prolific and accomplished psychologist, about the current state of erotic media and it’s impact on sexuality education inside and outside of the family home. We talk about the semantics of the term porn and the history of regulation and cultural attitudes toward nudity and sexual content.

He offers practical and insightful tools for parents to take an empowered and self-responsible approach to providing sexuality education for their families.

Please visit his website to learn more about his services:
http://drcarlshubs.com

Dr Shubs’ Bio:
I have been in private practice since 1981 and have taught, trained, and supervised other mental health professionals.

I have published articles in professional journals in the area of trauma. I hold a diplomate from the American Academy of Experts in Traumatic Stress and was Chairman or Co-chair of the Victim Treatment Committee of the Los Angeles County Psychological Association for twelve years. I was on the professional advisory board of Break the Cycle, a non-profit organization dedicated to education, advocacy, and intervention in stopping teen dating violence, for ten years.

I have been a local and international speaker, lecturer, and presenter, for professional and general audiences, on topics including depression, anxiety, trauma, psychological recovery for victims of violent crime, relationships, self-esteem, bioenergetic analysis, the mind/body connection, and gay/lesbian/bisexual issues.

I have been interviewed for TV, radio, and various forms of print and Internet media on a range of issues concerning clinical psychology.

I have held the American Psychological Association’s Certificate of Proficiency in the Treatment of Alcohol and Other Psychoactive Substance Use Disorders since 1996.

I am a Supervisor and Certified Bioenergetic Therapist, integrating bioenergetic analysis, contemporary psychoanalytic psychotherapy, and other psychotherapeutic modalities since 1974.  I was editor of two publications concerning bioenergetics.

Special study has been in the area gay, lesbian, and bisexual life, growth, development, coming out, being out, relationships, and homophobia.

For several years I was seeing people in medical settings where patients were recovering from illnesses including strokes, Alzheimer’s disease, Multiple Sclerosis, or various other conditions affecting their mind and their emotions.

I served several terms on the Boards of the Los Angeles Society of Clinical Psychologists and the Los Angeles Chapter of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists.

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello David Lebovitz welcome to Township Punk podcasts and interviewing dr. Carl shoves a psychologistpsychologist in Beverly Hills who specializes in sexuality issues and supports families in this difficult area of never navigating all kinds of new issues with the pornography so would you please give us a bit of background and how you came to be the psychologist that you are now in your practice psychologist I’ve been in private practice for about 30 years or so and in that it and it includes a focus on all aspects of Human Experience of love sex relationships self-esteem and all of those come together in various different forms and certainly sexuality is an important part of our being and so it’s very much a focus of my attention as I’m talking with people and hearing them talk about what’s going on in their lives great thanks so much so yeah getting started here I actually discovered some quotes from you an article about this kind of new buzzword around porn as a Public Health crisis or public health hazard and a lot of debate suroor going on and legislation is being proposed and worked on and moving through that whole process so we definitely need some guidance here and I just want to go through some some pretty quick and simple questions on that you can elaborate on as much as you want to give some guidance here so my question yeah it’s what would your advice be for parents of adolescent boys and girls in terms of best practices for sexuality education in the age of Internet pornography well I think the first step is for someone to be comfortable with their own sexuality because you can talk comfortably with your children about sexuality if you’re not comfortable with your own so that’s a really important thing and a very difficult thing for many adults by their parents or not unfortunately we have learned to grow up in this site in this Society not feeling very comfortable about our own sexuality and I think that becomes very much of what that issue in this trying to to eliminate pornography and calling pornography a curse on public health or Scourge on public health in a danger to society so I think that’s really the first step for any parent who wants to talk to their children of whatever age whether it’s two years old 25 years old about sexuality just as as I talked with with patients in my office about whatever is going on in their life the first step is for them to be able to be connected to themselves and what they think about things how they feel about things where that comes from in their life and all of that comes into play as you’re interacting with other people and that certainly is is true as people are interacting with their kids write so a lot of things would you agree that before the access of high-speed internet pornography there was you could actually kind of get away with a style of parenting that was just completely negligent in terms of sexuality education and they just sort of Outsource that to the school system and to the religious institutions if that was using for their guidance and they kind of checked out on that job but now that there is this sort of surrogate training of pornography and its accessibility it’s kind of forcing parents to take a more active role and to be present for that developmental process more than ever is that something you’re noticing your practice will there many things that that you mention that I think are important for us to just kind of noticed it’s not just that people were passively farming a sex education and and sexual ideology if you will about or sexual attitude do schools and other institutions but they were also in doing that there was a lot of sexual repression that would happen a lot of repression and sex negative education that was either consciously or unconsciously being passed along and it’s only in the last number of field number of years that we have gradually become more accepting of sex and sex and sexuality is being normal and healthy Part II Society it’s not very long ago that many aspects of sex were considered dirty and I was the first Playboy with Marilyn Monroe in it that today is part of popular culture and most people think as very vanilla and benign and I are at the time was considered by many people outrageous and pouring and yet today that’s something that you would easily see on many television stations there was a time when when people living together was considered with considered immoral and today it’s considered common and that was what maybe 50 years ago or so so high standards of morality standards of acceptability and sexual behavior standards of of normalcy and sexual relationships in in dating relationships have significantly changed so there is no single standard by which we can realistically talk about what is and what isn’t and why’d we should consider that point as opposed to something else and I think that’s one of the things that doesn’t really get addressed in these political efforts to try to legislate morality and to legislate sexuality yeah that’s a great point and I appreciate I like the term you use sexual ideology because then it kind of pig that’s more accurate than morality which is you know can be kind of coercive and you sort of lead into as kind of skewed towards the priest-class to give you your morality but if you look it as an ideology well then that’s more like whose Manifesto are you going to subscribe to and what’s the agenda behind it in what world do they want to create with that ideology so you said the word sex negative and now we’re looking at a more of the blossoming of Consciousness beyond that attitude towards the positive attitude and so I’m curious you got 30 years of practice experience what are some of the growing pains that families have been dealing with from you know that all this all the forms if not non hetero sexual identification orientation I’m sure you’ve been just watching these shackles kind of turned off what are some of the patterns we leading up to high speed internet porn and then now high-speed internet poor and how is that impacting families in your practice I think we have to be careful to not as not reflexively link porn and sexuality because they are very different and there’s a lot of sexuality that is apart of literature literature and the Arts are filled with sexuality and sexual images and sexual stories and to just as a default link that with foreign I think that’s up sexuality is a bad thing so I think we really need to be careful with our language and think carefully about what we’re calling pouring and why one of those the issues about foreign that came many years ago now I think it was back in the 50s or 60s when the Supreme Court the Supreme Court was ruling on pornography and one of the chief justices says I can’t come up with a definition of what point is but I know it when I see it actually it wasn’t pouring it was what’s obscene and and what he said was I can’t Define obscenity but I know it when I see it and or some variation on that and the same thing is true with touring for something for some people that Marilyn Monroe photo is pouring for other people seeing Daisy Mae in the Dogpatch in the cartoon was pouring and if we’re going to two look at any kind of image that has any kind of sexual content in it we’re going to have to close down the Museum’s we’re going to have to ban all books and then we we have to look at who is who is it that gets to make those decisions about what is acceptable and what’s not acceptable in what gives them the authority to make those decisions they may have the power to make those decisions and buy that they may be vested with an authority to make those decisions but that doesn’t mean that they’re making good decisions and educated decisions and decisions that we want to we fight we’re fortunate to be living in a country where we’re supposed to have freedom of speech and freedom of expression and so does that include freedom can sexual issues sexual images or not and who gets to determine what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable these are all very difficult issues to dress with and I’m my style as I’m working with patients and in therapy is more to be asking questions and inviting people encouraging people and helping people to come to their own decisions so here I’m not going to be saying this is how it should be some of your listeners may be one that but I’m going to be more just raising questions about how we go about deciding these things and who do we want to be our decider I think that’s a really crucial issue for us today yes definitely will thank you for framing it that way and then I agree and we’ll get more into the the regulatory stuff in a bit so there are harmful concerns or you could just say pros and cons and I think you know a concerned family concerned parents are going to want to have some professional guidance when it comes to especially when they’re making decisions for themselves and their own relationship was conducive to better more sustainable relationship Dynamics and how can wisely chosen pornography support that that’s a question of course and then we’re back to court to talking about pornography and pornography is the term that carries many connotations and much stigma so before we use the term like pornography I think we have to be very careful about how we’re defining that so we can then be conscious of how were using it how do you like the term erotic media as a very different cuz they’re many people I mean that’s a part of the debate for many people is what’s erotica and what’s pouring for some people they are completely different for other people they are viewed as exactly the same and so that’s one of the difficulties about talking about porn when it’s on Define yeah I agree in my heart and I really feel a repulsion to the word porn because I don’t think a lot of what is experience is born is really accurate representation of erotic art as a medium so yeah I’m calling it erotic art does it have to be thought of or considered to be art to be accepted that’s been one of the stumbling blocks that has has been there with erotica and with any kind of sexual expression before is it it kind of got a pass because it was considered art well does it have to be considered art for it to be okay or not can it be something other than art but still pictures of naked people and pictures of naked people doing particular things whatever that may be even if someone or many or most people might not consider that art does that mean that it’s now no longer okay and no longer permitted or can it still be permitted even though you wouldn’t call it off does art have to be the standard by which something is deemed pornographic or erotic or just accepted right I think that’s getting into that Miller test standard the doctrine of it’s it’s it’s not obscenity if it can be proven to be artistic and or educational or having some cultural value and that’s this kind of a is as as much of a of a precise tool is is is that you can get I guess with that Miller test but yeah and even with that just on its face that could be Gene to include everything because seeing anything that you haven’t seen before has an educational component to it oh I’ve never seen this before maybe it’s okay to do that or now I see this in that’s not something that I want to do that’s not something that I think is something that would feel good to me to do or to have someone do to me or for me to do to someone else so why don’t want to do that but it’s now out of the closet and I one of the things especially in this last decade and especially the last few years as a sexual orientation and sexual identity have come into the Forefront of of color of Western culture certainly but across the across the worlds as well and also the political Spectrum as homosexuality has been been increasingly accepted and gay marriages are now legal in many states and people are also looking not only at homosexuality but transexuality or whatever whatever terminology you want to use for that that wouldn’t be offensive because that too is a burgeoning area where many people are offended by certain term so I I’m sorry if any of the terms that I that I’ve said my sound defensive to someone but it’s just about someone sexuality and what is it is that okay can that be out of the closet can we accept it does it to be regarded and tossed as dirty and unacceptable and other kinds of sex negative and identity identity negative things these are all things that we’re wrestling with and none of them are easy sounds like we need people like you being the guidance counselor and therapist for families at that level more than legislation that just forces things underground because as long as people have a demand for whatever is out there it’s going to be produced on the black market you know no matter what so and you know there’s there’s a they call it the the shadow internet or the others all that accessibility there so I think I think we definitely agree on all of his stuff so if let’s just say kind of walking through you have a family coming in there and you know that the teenage boy is experiencing erectile dysfunction and sort of unable to bond and make human romantic age appropriate connection because of a addiction to whatever you want to call it but a mediated form of sexual access right and so let’s hold on their addiction and that totally muddies the water that’s and if she has an addiction I’m sorry if he has an erectile dysfunction that’s based on some kinds of sexual addiction there’s kind of a contradiction in that so I would have to find out more about that and then to understand that better I’d have to inquire with him as much as I can while the parents aren’t there to inhibit what he’s going to tell me of what he sees as an erectile how he understands it how he defines it what his view of what’s normal is our end is that an accurate view of what’s normal and to be expected or not and by the same token what is this thing he’s talking about as some kind of addiction to pornography and what are the behaviors that are involved in that and how does he understand how that may be connected or may not be connected to what he’s talking about with some kind of erectile dysfunction those are not all straight lines there are winding paths and we have to follow the path if we are going to understand the person that were talking to if I’m going to understand the person I’m talking to you no hear my office is in Beverly Hills but I see people from all over there some people who were from next door there are other people who drive an hour in 2 hours to get to me so there’s no there’s no quick and simple answer about the people that I’m seeing and it being a select group it’s really a Melting Pot of people and I can’t make the assumptions about who you are unless I talk to them and that’s where I start is help me to understand you my my focus says I’m working with people is not trying to teach them though I know there are psychologist and psychotherapist who to focus on teaching people my focus is more on helping people to understand them and helping people to sort out what’s going on in their mind and how that connects to their life experience their understandings of themselves in the world of their relationships with other people and who they can be who they can’t be what to expect in the world so that’s where where I start with people is helping them to to let me know who they are and and that certainly applies with all issues about sex and sexuality and images of sex and sexuality okay well yeah thank you for that I’m feeling your your approaches it feels like if we all had that level of care and concern in and space to really create our own narratives that would be a way to solve a lot of our own problems with the bit of help so I appreciate that approach and that was kind of the sort of statistical archetypal stereotype of what’s of what how how you know several of the factors of how young men and boys are being harmed by something that they’re not that they actually end up being very uncomfortable with and want to seek help for inner creating their own sources for that there’s the nofap movement I’m not sure if you’ve heard of that but through set of what it’s coming down to is the extreme you know negative outcome of excessive use according to their own you know their own gauge of it and then if we look at I’ll just give you another kind of case study type example but the other equation for consumio young consumers of pornography young consumers erotic media getting there to leave the pornography tournament the door thank you email to talk about sexual images andronic images but that doesn’t mean that they are pouring and then it’s a question of what are the images the people are looking at you know there are there’s a lot of stereotype of those images are being filled with violence and leading to violence but that’s only a very small segment of what’s out there in the world of sexual imagery whether it’s videos or Stills and and the same thing with with rose there’s a whole world of sexual images that are all about love and are about sex being shown in very loving tender and unsatisfying ways but often that doesn’t get into the dialogue around porn was looking at the let’s say the Straight female certified sexual initiation process which happens to everyone and so a complaint that’s heard often is that you know I’m a teenage girl and all the boys are essentially behaving like they’re possessed and all they want to do is you know penetrate my anus in a way that has no real train skill or care concern or lubrication or all of the things that would be considered best practice is to explore that area and then they’re like this is a porndemic because I can’t find a young male to you know deflower me who I don’t feel really terrified by what’s going on in erotic imagination so is that something that you have had to answer questions about or deal with or confront cuz that’s the other sort of end of the spectrum of harm that’s certainly there and that then raises the question where do people get their sex education from where they get their sex education from about what’s normal and what if what they see on the internet is the only place that they are are learning about sex and that’s a very skewed you about what sex is what sex should be and there’s something about that that needs to be changed not from birth on the internet but to bring other people to to those kids education and part of part of that has to do with most of the sexual imagery that’s online is there for males and there’s not that of sexual imagery without fear for females so it certainly there but people do have to be looking for it more and for many of the boys growing up who who see sex on the internet that’s what they often might see but that doesn’t mean that that’s what’s normal and they’re also places on the internet where they can get more loving for Trails how that can be done and whatever sex acts someone might be looking for or inquiring but another part of this which I don’t want to just let Slide by under dress has to do with your talkin about the girls responses to to the boys I efforts to have sex and what they’re wanting and that has to do with what boys and girls and what adolescents grow up with about their own sexuality and what’s normal and what’s not normal and what’s okay and what’s not okay we’re still in a time when adolescents have the mindset that that boys should be the ones to initiate girl should not initiate and that puts all of the burden on on the boys and it sets up a dynamic between the boys and the girls wear and what kind of like you said the girls are saying well all he wants is to have sex and he wants to have it this way well let’s start with you all he wants is to have sex part and so why isn’t there more of an equality between boys and girls where they’re both wanting to have sex and they’re both seeing sex as something positive from an early age because the alternative is that is too kind of demon eyes the boys for wanting to have sex and the girls aren’t really wanting sex they’re just wanting to be loved and that is a whole dynamic between boys and girls between men and women that I think is really important part of all of these relationships that we need to take another look at it I mean it was addressed many years ago in certainly in the psychological literature one of the people that was looking at that was Wilhelm right back in the 30s about the sex negative view that was in society and there’s your dad still there we haven’t really gone all that far from that especially compared to how we think we’ve come miles and miles but it’s really only a few feet right like you’re saying there’s so many unspoken hidden Frameworks that are not being addressed like you know how to speak from experience when I was when I was a boy coming-of-age into my hormonal sexual self I was afraid to go up and write something on the chalkboard or point something out in the map because I had a tent pole in my pants cuz I was very turned on by the teacher or somebody else in the class and there was no masturbation room to go take care of myself at home or at school so we’re just not designing for this energy to flow through our cultures and you were living with the fear of being exposed as being a sexual / and being ridiculed for it in ways that girls never work but that’s the typical experience of growing up mail right and having as a dynamic between males and females in that very tender. Of age right so we’ve got a few minutes left I really appreciate your insights and I think I’m at a point where I feel like the way to frame this discourse is that it’s pouring is not a Public Health crisis or public health hazard sexual holistic sexuality education is in the lack thereof is the Public Health crisis and exactly more of the Public Health crisis is about sexual repression sexual oppression about teaching teaching people generally but especially teaching girls that sex is dirty and teaching girls that boys are bad for wanting to have sex that if everyone kind of grew up on an even playing field of seeing sex as positive seeing love is positive and being able to talk together about about those things to talk together about love to talk together about sex to talk together about what you want and what you don’t want and that’s okay we will be in a very different environment than we are today there is to be a new political office of a quote horns are not to be confused with torrent star that person was to be open-minded enough to take some direction and possibly offer to hire you to consult what kinds of programs designs no just outlines you know big picture thinking you know if you were to be able to be respected for what you’re saying and it is a we want to address the issue of institutionalized sexual repression in so where do we begin to unravel that not this is just that you know food for thought and I think one of the places is to redefine the title and take pouring out of the picture but it’s not about pouring it’s about sexuality and sexual acceptance and how can we how can we bring sexual acceptance into the public dialogue and into into the educational system and into into the kind of dialogue that parents have with your kids that that seems to me to be a big part of that role of Tsar do I don’t know that that’s the right term but to to change the language that we talked about these things so we’re not talking about about about it with sex negative sex by a sex pejorative kind of language that skews things from the gecko and set and sets us up to lose from the very start right to the simple statement sexual aggression is the product of sexual repression so it’s going to come out in pouring it’s going to come out on prom night all of that pent-up frustrated aggressive certified you want to call it Satanic call it Satanic whatever you want to call but you can have to bring the light to the darkness and and get some help with that so I think the case is closed and I really appreciate what we’ve accomplished in this call setting some new terms for discourse and really putting the the family and the family therapist in the community and the school teachers more in a position of of leadership than political Lake litigation legislation and political offices so what I would add to that is in terms of where you started is to encourage parents know themselves to be honest with themselves to be honest with their own prejudices and biases to be honest with their own fears to be honest with their own misconceptions so they don’t pass them along to kids and to be able to listen to kids more than they talk to kids and to be able to have a dialogue rather than a lecture with their kids and that changes the relationship between parents and kids and helps kids to grow and to feel accepted beautiful beautiful all right thank you dr. schub so much and if you want to give your contact information so people can start to seek your help sure you can find me at actor Karl subs.com that d r c a r l s h u b s or one string calm and phone number is 310-772-0520 that’s local here in Beverly Hills great thank you so much have a wonderful day take care you to thanks very much. 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