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Overcoming Shame and Opening Up with Sex Blogger Zoe K TPP162

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In this episode I’m joined by an deeply intriguing and empowering sex blogger Zoe K. She provides a very insightful glimpse into the lifestyle of an open relating, shame-free sex positive web-enabled literary voice of liberation.

Please visit her blog at:
https://sexismynewhobby.wordpress.com/about/

About Zoe:
By day, I’m a professional with an office-type job and academic leanings. Outside office hours, I’m a belly dance instructor, a sex/relationship blogger, and occasional creative. I’m also happily married.

I had a number of challenges that came to a crisis point in early 2014 and spurred an intense period of personal growth. It was during this time that I serendipitously had an epiphany that then largely freed me from the sexual shame that I’d always struggled with. It was out of the recognition that my sex life was at a crossroads that my blog was born and I began what I believe to be the first authentic exploration of my sexual and sensual self.

At first, I expected that I’d simply write about my new adventures, which I’d conceived of (as it turns out) in fairly narrow terms. My topics have since expanded to include things that I might have been able to predict (e.g. BDSM), those that I hadn’t thought to write about (feminism, mental health, fiction, reviews), and those I didn’t even know about (ethical non-monogamy).

Inspired by another blogger, I also started my nude self-portrait project when I started blogging. I couldn’t have articulated my reasons for this project at the outset, and then I was pleased to discover after the fact that it had had a positive effect on my body image.

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 162 I am being joined by Zooey K who is a prominent and celebrated sex blogger and about a year or so ago now I had I was doing a campaign to really reach out and Branch out beyond the world of Tantra and get more into the world of sex Educators and sex bloggers in all different varieties of people kind of pushing the edges of expression and sexual Liberation healing and what not and PK was at one of the people who did respond to me however we had kind of a I guess you can call it an email tag over a game of email tech for a while and it’s just better late than never were finally catching up and coming full circle to this interview so thank you so E4 for hanging in there and being persistent and I’m glad we got to get this arranged and I’m excited to learn about what you do as a sex blogger and I just actually was catching up a bit and I definitely want to applaud you for your stating that you would prefer to review products that have a sustainable and recyclable to call you to them so I’m very interested in your ecological ethics and maybe we can get into that later but just start off with do you want to talk about please how are you kind of evolved is it a sexual literary being sure will. Thanks for inviting me first of all yeah so I’ve been blogging now for a few years I started around Christmas time 2014 and I had come to that weight because I reached a point where I felt like my life is about to change or is in the middle of a change that’s going on in terms of my sexuality and sexual expression and not much had happened in the lead up to that point I felt like I was really at the beginning of something the reason why I had that feeling was because I had to experience what I referred to as my Epiphany and I have realized that a lot of the difficulty that I had had to throw my life up until that point in terms of sexuality was in relation to sexual shame beyond that the sexual shame that I was experiencing was not actually something that serve came out of my own life it wasn’t my own experience this was something that I had inherited I think primarily from my mother and her experiences with she had never spoken about and yet or attitudes toward sexuality and especially you know what that means being a woman and being sexual or not I can still pick that up without that ever being sort of explicitly stated so so yeah I was in a difficult situation in terms of where I was at just start if I guess in life generally I looking back I was probably depressed at that time and that had to do with a lot of difficulties relating to conflict that was both work and family related because I was working with family members and so there was sort of No Escape from that and and also you know where I might ordinarily safe to go for support or the difficulties that I was having like I didn’t have those those supports and so so that had spurred some serious introspection like even more than I usually do which is a considerable considerable amount and yeah a lot of personal gross and I was just sort of consuming everything I could to learn more about myself to learn more about the situation that I was in with that conflict on one hand and on the other hand with that depression that I I believe I was going through I had lost interest in a lot of things and I knew I I remember it having been interested in things but I couldn’t really remember what they were or or the things that I remember being interested in just didn’t grab my interest anymore and so I was sort of looking around for first things to have some sort of two to rekindle some interest or find something just to get to give it a sense of I don’t know interest in life I guess and and what caught my eye was I guess it was sex in a nutshell I don’t remember specifically what book it was it may have been Nancy Friday’s booked my secret garden about women’s fantasies and it was a bit of a Lifeline like okay this is something I’m interested in it’s the only thing that I seem to be interested in right now I need to explore that because I need to have some sort of Interest other than just getting through the day and end. So that sort of led to me educating myself some more and job and with the personal girls and the sexual gross that I was doing at the time just came came around to this sort of serendipitous discovery about that sexual shame that I’ve mentioned before and so yeah I had this discovery about myself and and I was right that you know everything sort of changed after that that’s that’s that’s basically my my backstory cool well that’s something I think a lot of people from the last several will ever until probably this last maybe one or two generations but maybe this the most recent generation seems to be the most gender non-binary gender fluid poly and I’ve never seen so much liberated Sexual Energy to do that just kind of Epsom and flows according to its own vicissitudes if its own nature and its really heartwarming to see that and I know it took the the sufferings of people like you and myself and many others to have to create a contact is more open and accepting so I feel like we’re sort of the if we survive or not Martyrs I guess but we’re definitely we need to have some statues made for the end of the people who have been the sexual Liberation Warriors in and what not so if you could so thank you for being a part of that data processing do you want to talk a little bit more about just some of the sort of mental architecture of shame that could be very personal or could just be Broad and in general but I think it’s it’s sometimes it feels like it’s it’s so obvious now you just point to certain religious Tendencies and what not but I feel like it’s good to to Really identify and if you get if you’d like to talk more about what that shame is felt like I had felt like and what what kind of thought patterns and Lube send reactions were you kind of stuck in because of it you mentioned about you know this generation and and the changes that we’re you know what’s happening at Leading Edge that Frontline and I have a feeling like I’m not just feeling my own issues I have to do sort of you know exploration into my own personal history and you know where do I come from how was I brought up what were my parents like when I was young and you know he’s attitude performing in the first place and so as I get curious about about myself and my roots you know. That takes me back to the Next Generation and I’m looking at okay well what happened in my parents lives that that created those issues for them and you know because your parents can only give you the gifts that they have themselves than you know it said it’s a challenge and and so I know that there are difficulties came from so then I’m looking for the what was it like for my grandparents how did these these problems start out and get passed down to me and so you know yeah in in healing myself I’m I’m I’m healing my own, as well as this trauma that I’ve that I’ve inherited for me personally I was raised atheist so I don’t have any specific you know religious issues aren’t you no issues coming out of religious teachings or anything but that said I mean I certainly grew up and and in this culture which is very Christian Protestant and so has come through you know in society without necessarily being taught by your parents so you know I didn’t I didn’t have that particular set of issues to deal with so you know perhaps my my journey is a little bit more idiosyncratic in that way I know that that you know my mom had experienced some abuse when she was a child and I really don’t know any more than that but there’s there’s some sort of TVs diode in terms of what what my experience is and what it looks like and what it feels like and and where those problems might have come from assertive you know made some educated guesses along with you know some of the reading that I’ve done on on various topics so it’s it’s all very much a work-in-progress and you know in terms of in terms of the shame of what I had believed up until that point up until the Epiphany was just you know you’re generally that sex was bad somehow it was difficult to you know much more of a label on it but now I did find myself sort of leaning on Christian definitions of you know sin and virtue because that seemed to be relevant somehow although I couldn’t really connect it directly to my own life but you know that this basic premise that sex is I think I think a lot of Christian doctrine teaches that sex is inherently sinful unless you’re married and and Mary just said the only way out to make it less bad you know some groups are are more sex-positive than that but I think you know that’s some as a non-Christian speaking about about Christianity that’s my impression of it and so you know here I am in a long-term relationship and I’m married and that didn’t magically make anything better so obviously the the roots of that if she went went deeper than just those sort of definitions I just seen the I have I did I was not raised in a strict religious environment myself either but I definitely picked up the memes they sort of spread whether or not you were going to church or not the kind of you know it spread everywhere and it’s interesting I’m really curious how you have explored or interacted with just the yeah the notion that to keep people especially women sexuality very limited and very finite kind of some people say put in a box it just sort of its sit facilitates and Industrial Paradigm of a world where were if we were to be freely exploring our pleasure and freely relating with others then we probably wouldn’t feel as compelled to go punch a clock and sit in a cubicle and work in a factory assembly line and that’s it that’s it there seems to be a very even they call it the Protestant work ethic and in these things were there sits where I’m at with all this stuff is it it’s it’s the moralistic sin kind of that whole Boogeyman story or that whole sort of wizard behind the man behind the curtain Wizard of Oz story it really is kind of the fronts for a more Insidious I don’t want to call it conspiracy theory but it seems like historical fact if you lose if you just look at how sexuality has been has been limited it seems to be kind of in lockstep with industrial so-called progress I’m just curious if that’s any thoughts of you explore your blogger that you know sporting in communication or just what you might your what will be a working theory on your part of why that shame really has been so institutionalized across atheist den and religious sectors of society as I mentioned earlier and that’s as you mentioned as well that you just because you’re raised in a particular way in your family of origin doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t get ideas creeping in from the larger culture and I definitely see that a lot I don’t see that that particular phenomenon as being necessarily the major except the issues that I’ve dealt with personally but that said I mean I do you know why I read about this stuff and I I think about it and I like to know where things come from and that’s part of the reason why I’m so interested in my personal history I I like to know okay why is why is this thing the way it is and there’s definitely controlling sexuality is really powerful it’s you know it’s it just it effects how how people behave and how they think and there’s this self-monitoring that happens to self-policing there’s policing by others in the group and and you see that with women in this culture in particular that women sexuality is governed much more strictly than men sexuality is women also policing at so you know such a many things like that where you know there’s you know whether that’s a massage me is the best term for that and and I I see a connection with with agriculture I guess I’m looking maybe a little bit earlier in history that you know you get Agriculture and you get land ownership you have ownership of of abandoned objects it’s you know I wasn’t really so important when you’ve got people in a forging lifestyle so then when you have when you’ve got property you’ve got concerns about inheritance and descent and if you thought the property that is vested in men rather than women then you’ve got this issue of well okay so whose kid is who’s going to get the stuff you know she’s got a lineal culture you always know who the mother is so you don’t have those same issues arising about his property to send so so that’s that’s a connection that I see yes thank you so much for bringing that up that’s that’s so important to deconstruct these things in and really I’ve been I was an anarcho primitivism even back in my college days and was really just looking at all forms of Oppression coming from the so-called Neolithic Revolution and just well if in from Eco feminist perspective the thesis is basically women animals and nature has been oppressed for five to ten thousand years as city states and empires have grown to control more more resources and build military is in that hole that anthropologically it’s very it’s kind of like a textbook 101 the first paragraph We Know It says things like agriculture there was an essay like to go to the worst mistake Humanity ever made like I can’t remember who and Marvin Harrison Jarrett at one of the one of the Anthropologist it was looking at this stuff over the last few decades and so that you had that connecting that fuses with where all the sexual shame and and sort of sexual marriage the the origins of that more limited forms of that yes this is very very interesting conversation that I’m I’m excited to have and I feel like it needs to be explored much more often so have you done that unitive awareness that you just expressed how did you come to discover that did you hit the anthropology books or did you read maybe 6 at Don or have you just through conversation how did you arrive at that that groundbreaking thesis that Don that I got that from and that was something that just made a lot of sense to me it’s something that I would like to learn more about because I know you know one book is not the be-all-and-end-all list of research so I got seems like a really interesting entry point to it but you know and that was sounds like you’ve read that book and if any of the listeners are familiar with it that that it’s there’s quite a lot of assertive prologue setting the scene and in that book where they talking about you know what it was what it was like and serve earlier human history in order to find out what is normal or what is natural and and so it was I found that very interesting and quite persuasive and and the and also interesting to see if you know where they went Ian. In terms of okay so if if sex isn’t it’s not from the things that we usually say that it’s for you know that it’s not strictly for procreation then what is it for and and what are we doing and how do we know that we’re at we’re doing things in the way that is most positive and beneficial right now how would you say you then your experience of state-sponsored or state-sanctioned sexuality education what was your experience of that like cuz I think a lot of those types that will also take Justin with when people become sexually desirous then you’re pretty much capped and frustrated through all of your teams and then you’re only really loud like you said to be to have less sinful sex under the within within marriage and stuff so yeah what was your experience besides what came of the shame come in your family what is you feel like in the the government regulated sort of sexuality education experience well it certainly didn’t help anything you know my my sex education experience was not awful I don’t think that I was told anything that was outright lies or his you know incorrect but it was very much a focus on you know pregnancy and how to avoid getting pregnant how to avoid getting STIs and you know very much the how do I get an AIDs that was a big scare and and so it didn’t it didn’t do me any good in terms of you learning anything positive or you know getting any kind of inputs that that was any different from what I had already shot so you know you’re talkin about truth is feeling repression you know from from outside and yet I most of my refresh and I think was internal because I had absorbed it so young and so I was I would sell for pressing you very early on and and so I don’t think that the you-know-who public sex education units made things any worse in that respect because the damage was already done earlier than well okay so then you won’t talk about how as you kind of came out of your shell and had these epiphanies and were able to are discover your own your own source of sexual freedom and power that you yeah what’s it been like what what do you what will people be finding on your blog and what have you been kind of gravitating towards as far as the content that you should write about in the personal narratives and what not to eat here well I guess probably the single biggest project on the blog is the nude self-portraits that I’ve been doing and that’s that’s only a project in retrospect that was something that I served I started into I was inspired by another blogger and I didn’t know why I was doing it it didn’t make a lot of sense to put new photos of myself on the internet I had had specific advice from my family not to do that which was really odd it was in a really strange contacts but so so it wasn’t you know I thought about it as much as I could and in rational terms and I couldn’t figure out what it was that I know why I felt driven to do that but I knew that I did feel a Colt to do that and so I just I went ahead and did it after doing sir to my due diligence to make sure that I wasn’t going to I wasn’t you know opening myself up to you know an unreasonable amount of risk and and then you know so I went went through that and on the other side I feel like I got connected with a couple of body positive memes and not that I think was a really huge part of it that Not only was I taking these photos and learning to see myself in a kind way that also that if I ever had feedback from from any readers of the blog it was pretty much uniformly positive feedback and so I I got you no different perspective on on my body and my appearance that was enough being positive was not something that I was ever used to having had before and and so yeah so it ended up turning into this body positivity in a positive body image project that I hadn’t intended I had no idea but that’s what that’s what it turned out to be so that was that’s that’s a major element of the blog aside from that it’s more yesterday was just exploring that the things that that seem to catch my attention one thing that I do find is that you know my desired tends to remain fairly low and I think I have a significant amount of that has to do with depression and and the antidepressant said I’ve been on fortunately no longer depressed and no longer on my medication for that but that’s still having an effect and and so I’m exploring and and looking for signs of interests one of the things that I have often thought about is asking myself the question what do I like and what do I want to seem like very basic questions and they are but it’s those are questions that I have always struggled to answer and and someone doing better at that now you know I keep asking myself the questions I keep you know trying to experience things and say okay well you know do I enjoy this does this touch my attention having tried it do I still like it do I want more of that do I want Les do I want something else to be different do I want something that’s related to that and so it’s some it’s this project of exploration and also I guess another thing that that you’ll find a bit on the blog is some discussion about ethical non-monogamy and specifically polyamory through the block I ended up meeting somebody who has since become my partner in addition to my husband so I can whisper for many many years and so so that relationship is long distance like very very long distance where about I think that’s the traveling time is something like 24 hours from from door to door so we don’t get to see each other very often but you know how do we negotiate an emotional relationship how do we negotiate a physical relationship and antiserum integrating that into my life because I really do not have a template for for that sort of relationship okay well so well thank you for sharing all that so do you are you functionally polyamorous now that you’re married or do you how do you count how have you all if you care to share just I’m sure you said it’s on your blog as well but what year what you were sort of fan inside sorry about reconciling and reconfiguring if if your if your kind of trying to go that route or place that path if you will right well I did something that you’re not supposed to do with polyamory which is you know how have the beginnings of a relationship and and then I asked my my husband and you know about the possibility of opening up I know that the way you’re supposed to do it is to have discussion before there’s you know anyone waiting in the wings so you can have rational discussions as much as it’s possible to get to be rational about something that can be so emotional but I don’t know that I would have done it any other way even even knowing that that is sort of Hino best practice because my husband is very very introverted he’s you know I’m I’m his only major relationship things ever had in his life we’ve been together for half of our Lives you know so this is a very well-established very long-term relationship he he would not be looking for anybody else and I didn’t expect to be an actually didn’t even start out that way for me what happened was I had discovered this person who’s also a blogger as it happened and and I started reading his blog and it caught my attention and it wasn’t so much the things that he was writing about you know the details that he was writing about it although it was more the the reading between the lines about his politics and you know I’ll call him a feminist I don’t know if he would claim the term 7 is because he’s you know he’s he knows enough about that sit to not go away cleaning the term for himself too readily so you know we share a lot of DeSoto a lot of interest a lot of attitudes you know the sorts of things that are important to me and so what happened was I read his blog from start to finish and at that point it was I think it was three years worth of almost Daily Post so there was a lot of material but yeah if you want to get yeah yeah yeah and it was because I didn’t know it was what it was going to look like but I I knew that I wanted to know him as a person and and I you know if you would ask me at the time I would have said you know I have no idea you know my mind certainly no definitely went in certain directions of x given another the nature of of his blog and that he was writing it sex is well so I can’t say that that thought didn’t cross my mind but it was more that I was I identify this person as sort of my people and I knew that I wanted to have some kind of a connection and I didn’t know what it was going to look like but I was open to just seeing what happened you know like the worst that could happen is I could say you know hey I read your blog I enjoy that and you know I’d like to get to know you better and you know he would say not interested or not even respond so you know they’re there wasn’t much investment I would have been disappointed but you know would have been a big deal and I so I couldn’t have predicted at that time you know when things are starting out what direction this is going to go buy it I I always try to let it just be what it was going to be and and so that it was it was a discovery for me to just find out you know what that relationship is going to look like my student so you now they these two fellows are aware of each other and they you coordinate the sort of dynamics of balancing the tension in the energy flows and all that stuff is at am I understanding correctly or something but they have met in person and and yeah they’re both very aware of each other so you know in my sort of everyday routine I’ve got looks like a phone appointment at we talk on FaceTime dots that happens twice a week and we’ve been doing that now for 00 couple of years anyway I guess it’s getting almost two to three years since we last it’s been over three years since we first spoke and it’s it’s almost three years that we got into that routine of talking you know on a regular you know like weekly or semi-weekly basis of the day-to-day routine and I’m in touch with him often throughout the day by text although there’s there’s quite a time difference so we have to Wrangle with the unit being in different time zones as well and then occasionally you know when I’m able to I I travel to visit him and you know my husband is at home minding the fort and and I have you had a couple of vacations with with my partner and and so that’s that’s how it looks for us well it’s cool so did this is your living the dream with the flow and and you know this is really moving towards what I feel this the did the most stem well I guess it the next level you have getting Beyond once you’re less shameful about sex in general then part of coming out of the closet as somebody who has desire you know I think most of us most of us are still in the closet about having desires that don’t match the the framework that were eliminated by and so the people who there’s huge risks and consequences specially for families and you know you can have your kids taken away if people feel like you’re in some sort of unconventional Arrangement and whatnot so yeah I’ve heard so I guess I’m just any anytime I I hear of a harmonious kind of stable ongoing success story that that’s always music to my ears and I’m always curious just some of the things are working to that so it is one of the things that I’ll mention about that is that my my husband and I have such a good relationship like it’s it’s always been good and you know from the beginning and I know you hear like relationships take work and and that sort of thing and it it never felt like work for us like we do know is that was I think that was good luck on our parts that that we’re such a good match you know around that time you know things when I had met you know the person who became my partner there was also other stuff going on my husband was living overseas working on a eye doctor at the time so you know we were apart and I was very difficult for both of us she also was having some health difficulties at the time so it ended up being a very very stressful. And and that was when the work came in and and you know did take work on the relationship but you know we’re just we’ve always been on each other’s team and you know knowing that that was as reliable as anything can be in life you know made made the rest of it possible I wouldn’t have tried it if you know if we were on Shaky Ground that would not have worked to introduce another person into the equation you know so a lot of it goes to the strength of that relationship with my husband and it’s interesting because you know I’m sort of how we’ve negotiated what’s okay and what isn’t over those few years has changed a little bit but assertive you know the sky didn’t fall and everything is fine and you know this other relationship and I have is is good for me I got a lot of emotional support from from my partner my other partner as well and Jab so it’s just you know it’s easier to build on the success and and I think that my relationship with my husband is now stronger than it ever has been before because we’ve also had you know some challenges and you know that we tested the relationship in a in a very sturdy safe and cautious way for us and and just came out stronger after all of that read between the lines here and there’s a lot of I’m picking up on a lot of really I really positive and healthy and constructive language and things that I just want to turn into a little bit and yeah yeah I’m just I’m just thrilled to hear about this stuff is really except it’s always so exciting to get to get behind-the-scenes if this different working so we know when you said use the word equation and I I think about I kind of got it a giggle out of that because I feel so much of this he know that it is much as we feel like an emotional left brain kind of even childish Tendencies can’t really be rationally computador really can’t be like you can’t you can’t really apply mathematical theories counting metrics to these sorts of supposed to be immeasurable things but I feel like we need it went when I look at it this kind of stuff mathematically it really comes down to how do you how do you distribute the the another kind of logical framework is that I’ve heard it said by wise folks so I look up to in the same similar conversation is like your love is infinite and people who are more naive and their goals and aspirations with polyamory or open relating another kind of naively just sort of prance around feeling that love is infinite so anything goes and we should just be free and do all this but then what isn’t infinite as of yet his is time so you have to be have discretion you have to be able to to really be a good Steward of your time and energy to share with other people and to kind of negotiate the distribution of that infinite love but then how it’s limited by time and space so you have to because it is an equation it is and so to get that to get it to function properly wear two different people have different needs at different times and so it just sit it requires more time it really requires a lot of fun Eng sort of sortino’s things out you can’t even just kind of winging it are you can even speak in just kind of broad terms but have you have you been able to sort of have those conversations in and get to mutual agreements where you’re having the kind of cycles of regular maintenance of certain agreements happening so that everybody feels included and I’m bored and you know all that good stuff just sort of a handbook you know you had a design it a handbook for operating manual for the three of you and you know it analytical person and you know I mean I tend to intellectualize things and that’s that’s my usual approach you know these days I’m I’m working more from my garden and tuning into my gut because that’s something that I realized that I hadn’t been taught and so I was needing to to teach myself how to do that but no I don’t I don’t have a handbook or anything in terms of I guess the bottom line with with these relationships is that you know I’m here in my husband is here and my partner is there and it has always been like that there’s always been that you know almost insurmountable distance and so about is you know while that’s really not fun that’s it’s normal for us and you know you serve work around as you can it takes time and and you know because we’re so far apart it takes money which is not necessarily a concern in the same way as if you were in the same city with all of your partners so you know it’s like there’s practical considerations and you know I have to figure out okay well you know when am I busy with work such that I wouldn’t be able to you know take off on a on a vacation for a few weeks and is so you know that should be kind of frustrating I visited my partner we went on a trip to Europe together and that was in March and April of this year we were traveling together for about three weeks and at this point it’s looking like we’re not going to see each other again until maybe February of next year so you know that’s that’s really less-than-ideal but you know we still have our our regular calls twice a week you know you talking about energy and time not being infinite and you know that’s that’s definitely a factor that I can see up play with myself and my husband my husband doesn’t have the mental energy for anybody else in his life and I’m sorry integral to his life is so there’s there’s only so long I I can be away before it starts to cause my husband problems and for me you know I I guess I’ve got room for for one more because you know like one plus one has where I’m at right now I’m not looking for anybody else because you know this is a lot of emotional investment and and energy and I I tend to go deep rather than broad so I have a few friends rather than a bunch of acquaintances and not to say that it would be impossible but I I struggle to see how how that you know how I could add anybody else into my life in that way and so I’m not looking but sad but I want to have more people in my life that are just you know my people I have the feeling that you know I have always felt like an outsider and I have never had many close friends at any given time and so now I’m sort of looking for that. Reaction you know that I really connect with this person and so I’m you know when I identified that I’m going to work to have that person in my life but you know maybe as a close friend or something I’m not necessarily in inside of a romantic or sexual way this is great stuff too because another another man just kind of seeing a future where where this lifestyle is it’s not even considered an alternative is not considered French it’s just that if if we feel like we’re at a time now where we still is as if it was just barely the beginning of a civil rights movement and people were pretty much comfortable in the status quo of the the Dominator culture with the United States segregation and all of everything that was taken for granted that that’s kind of how I feel where we’re at now of of the resistance to monogamy and the resistance to even just whether it’s gay marriage or or multiple lover marriage or custom contracts for liability responsibility for child care and all these things all of the very limited or these limited Frameworks that we’re stuck in their sent to me I see the similar to The Limited Frameworks of segregation in Liberty Frameworks of all of the backward policies stemming from slavery now that’s what I’m seeing when you’re talking now about how your band Venus and you’re sort of thresholds and and limits and I’m honestly thinking seeing that what what this is evolving tours in a more liberated sense and you can share your thoughts on this as well is is that if you were to be ultimately the CEO of your own sexual intimate emotional Enterprise you know in the end of the mission statement or the sort of prime directive of your of you as an entity is to maximize your sexual potential and have as much diversity and in pleasure and even paying any chance that should be enough but to have that sovereignty as the CEO of this Enterprise wear and you could also have as as that kind of prize have a board of directors who kind of help steer you and you have questions so it’s not like you’re just completely without guidance or completely without any sort of Elders to provide wisdom but in that scenario then you would have a list of openings and in in in in roles did for people to play and some of them will be at the highest ranks and get the most reward from that level the deepest intimacy and some of them will be just people who come by and massage your feet once a week but if you had it if it wasn’t just this binary thing if I go if you’re if you’re the man in my life you have to pretty much measure up to all of these different skills and it’s like if you corporate office environment you’re going to have people with different gifts and talents and training and the person who is very unskilled or or skilled in an area that’s kind of general and doesn’t require you know I’m saying like you so you have the freedom if you had the freedom to to literally and I’m going to do this with clients from now on is just like okay pretend that none of the ad paradigms that you’ve come to know exist and imagine what a sexual lifestyle for you how many people would it take to satisfy your every desire and if you had the you know the ability to to just put that offer out there and have people show up and what they get paid in is the Divine nectar that you need your love is the currency that they get paid any you know that they want they want to have your attention your love and your affection and some people will show up and all they want from to tell they want from you is to give you a foot massage you know some of them they would want to have they want to be the father of your child but when men can get along and accept it stay play different roles in a whole bunch of different other woman’s lies then everybody can kind of get sorted and you can have multiple overlapping Moonlighting gigs you know the system so of lovers so insecure in in their position and they’re not worried that you know somebody else is going to knock them out as you know there’s only one spot and then it’s this attitude of I think a lot comes to in a binary thinking and hierarchy that it’s just it’s a very limited way of of thinking you know you limit your choices and in the possibilities right from the outset just by the framework that you’re using so you know I mean my my parents were married a divorced and they’re now host remarried but you know like very ordinary familiar nuclear family nothing especially unusual there except for a I will note that my parents didn’t fit into standard like traditional gender roles so you know I’ve got different ideas and expectations about you know what what women do and and what you know what is what women’s roles can be and what men do and what men’s rules can be like basically I don’t jobs. You know that old handbook that says well men do this when you do that and that’s the way it is going to be more flexibility in negotiating like well you know these are the things that I like to do I mean I’m going to do the laundry you do the cooking and we’ll work it out you know however it is and you know I think I don’t know maybe that’s that’s part of where my flexibility and thinking comes from but yeah I mean it’s been just me and my husband for a long time and yeah there you know there are things that you know I don’t satisfy but for him or the he doesn’t satisfy for me you know although I’m an introvert I’m still more social than he is and so if I’m relying on him for all of my social activities I’m going to be disappointed so you know just for a really simple example if I want to go out to see a band or or something I’ll go on my own because that’s that’s not a thing that he especially enjoys doing he will do it he won’t like it but he does his best to support me and everything that I do and then vice versa but but yeah like not everybody can can meet every need. But there is an I don’t know that I really look at it from the perspective of okay here are the needs and and I’m going to go out and you know interview to fill this position and probably a little bit more like okay you’re somebody that I want on my team what can I get them to do and you know so I’m just sort of found that I waited a couple of other platonic relationships in the last couple of years since I start of you know become a little bit more open-minded and in my thinking about relationships and and so you know I was pleasantly surprised to discover there was a little bit more there than you know standard laconic relationship but the relationship so I’m thinking of her are both with men who I’ve known for a long time one of them I had dated in high school and and the other one I’ve known almost as long as that and you know so there’s different different possibilities even with people who are already on the team I guess you could say I like the language you’re using in this approach and yes or no he said it will be it will be you have to be more and more delicate recruit Angus recruitment so if we could be free to recruit as needed and to just be free and open to allow that I feel like this is all all moving in in a great Direction so on your blog do you get your you cataloging these the sort of them relations as they come up I’m how much how much detail do you typically share just on your blog I guess I use the blog will start it out more as a kind of therapy I suppose I heard is analogy after I’d already been doing this for quite a while that you know you put the ideas out there and it’s a little bit like group therapy that you’re getting feedback from other people and probably people who have some kind of affinity for what you’re going through and so what I like to do you know when I figure something out that’s when I’ll write about it or you know as I’m I’m exploring a particular issue that’s that’s got my attention and I don’t know that I have those catalogued in any particular way it’s it’s more destructive as I go you know this is what’s in my head today so so you get what you get on any given day so what would you say that’s like if you win these relations or decisions they come up there there’s a sort of thumb Peppard in the your life history that you share a gas if it’s kind of a yeah just ongoing kind of Journal journaling ISM of everything was a project where I had Revisited all of my previous relationships this is you know like when I was a teenager in dating looking back from where I am right now I am surprised at how young I was at the time by the time I ended up with my husband I know I felt so worldly and wise and the end I wasn’t I was still I was just you know pretty much coming out of adolescence really noticed that I had the way I saw it about to all of those previous relationships was mostly not not not in very positive terms and so I just went back with my you know my newer insights and Revisited all of those relationships and like okay so you know what happened here and did I learn anything then can I learn anything now from these things and that series of post was called the Dark Ages because it really felt like that you know that that you know those were the Dark Ages and then I had a Renaissance and and different stuff happening in different ways of thinking about it that’s a beautiful art yeah I think a lot of people can relate to that I certainly can you know it’s it’s more peppered through I think the Epiphany is really where the Blog start since and so you know I’m not sure if I have it tagged if you if you search on my site for Epiphany you will definitely find it it’s it’s one of the very first post when I talk about you know my relationships I will. I’ll tag those according to you know who the relationship was with is with so you know I got pseudonyms for for all of my ex-boyfriend’s this is going back a long time so I don’t think that anybody would necessarily recognize themselves hold onto the block but medium you know the post that deal with my husband will be tagged with with his pseudonym and and likewise with my partner there was a little bit more I think there’s more stuff talking about my partner because that was a new relationship and my relationship with my husband was established and and very comfortable and very you know satisfying for a long time and into this new relationship was actually the first time I felt like I was entering a romantic relationship as an adult like sort of knowing who I was and having a clue of you know what’s actually important to me Beyond well the guys interested in me so I guess that’s a good thing so they don’t suppose sir are all tagged with his pseudonym as well also well then I think there’s plenty of yet we’ve recovered a lot of it in those listening please do go and check out the blog and because something that will save me some what you’re saying now is it it’s it takes a brave partner lover husband to to be associated with if it’s expired or even by sudha Minnesota just makes me miss AC think I actually it’s a good idea to be a sex blogger if if you are if everyone had a sex Blog then there will be so much less of you sand and miss you send drama and Madness in the world because everybody would know that they were going to be you know Sunday news Morning News Drive Time news on the Block if they step out of line they’re going to be you’re going to be publicly shamed it even even buy a pseudonym and or celebrated really in Maytag made a positive example of you know that’s the reason to step up to the other side of that is it if you were to be associated with someone who’s who’s even anonymously but still out there out in that way you would want to do right and and be on your best behavior and it’s it’s it’s not impossible you know if you have a habit of being on your best behavior it’s it could become the rule and not the exception to be to be doing right so I can say that you know I’m not but that’s building out of our relationship which is already strong and and and he has seen a complete confidence in me and he knows that nobody knows who he is and so you know that’s not a big deal but I might my personal code of ethics I guess is that I don’t want either my husband or my new partner to be finding out anything you know anything that I have a problem with for the first time in text on my blog because that just seems rude to me if I’ve got a problem you know and it’s it’s not all perfect if there’s something that’s going wrong that I have an issue with I am going to talk to you to them about it first before I’m writing about it and and also that goes to how I like to write which is I want to I generally want to write things when I figured them out because that’s something that’s interesting to use is to say okay with this is confusing before and now I figured this out and and this is what was going on so if I’m in the middle of of being you know sad about something I probably not gotten to the end of that. Processive of figuring out what’s going on it’s you know that should have been natural resolution to it that when things are are resolved and and passed out but that’s the point when I would want to write about it anyway so it’s it’s no hardship but yeah I well that’s really cool yeah that’s that’s really cool to I appreciate you put that out there and that’s another dimension of just seeing the internet be either 4 hours for helping people mature and grow in their communication skills or having a b a place that holds people back and I really I really kind of juvenile the shadow of being a juvenile State of Consciousness so that’s really that’s really awesome so cuz I think a lot of people who they use the internet and the platform and getting feedback and getting likes and getting commiseration and all that and it can be very shadowy the way it just kind of instantly gratifies that need to have Vengeance against someone who you love or you know when you have a falling out for you have whatever you’re fighting or you’re breaking up or whatever and then all this all these gory details are disclosed to try to him went to try to win over some position against them and what not Inn what that meant a joke that everybody would you end up right back with that when you’re trying to figure out your ex and you trying to do and it’s like now and you know you so doing I appreciate that you have that that diligence that are processed a where you’re going to not use it to just sort of augment and amplify black magic against your own partner you know if you are actually solving issues and Reporting it back in and that’s some and yet it seems like there will be a place for a healthy kind of here’s the situation what do you think before I take action or something you could get advice but but not try to throw people under the bus so I’m not sure I know that’s just my style I feel really uncomfortable with that I guess I guess that’s the empathy I can’t turn it off and and that’s fine by me that you know I like what I want somebody to do that no and it’s you know I’m I’m putting stuff out as I feel comfortable with it if you know so when it goes on the internet I know that that’s it it’s out there and you know you never going to get that back into the Genie’s bottle kind of thing but it’s just yeah I think empathy is the biggest key there that I treating my people the way I you know I would want to be treated you know you mentioned with communication and it’s such such an important saying one of the things that I did want to mention it when I was growing up I did not learn communication I didn’t say I was never encouraged him to really talk about things or express myself and and so that that’s basically sort of an underlying theme of this blog is no actually expressing myself is good and valuable and and it’s a skill that I’ve learned you know I’m self-taught in this and the analogy that I use is that that scene early on in The Matrix where Neo has been arrested by agent Smith and he says you know he’s not going to put up with this. Oh crap I want my phone call and and the responses you know what good is a phone call that you can’t speak and it starts to melt close and that’s how I felt like I had that feeling like there was one of my boyfriend’s I don’t even remember what the issue was that was a problem in the relationship and it was so hard to just get the words out it felt almost impossible and then later on with my husband I had experience you know difficult emotional things and I’m happy to report that that gets better with practice so I definitely encourage that you know if it’s if it’s true it’s true and it’s kind and it’s necessary as they say in a spit it out I totally agree with this is been just it a gift to having your time and having you share this it’s it’s so much more lovely beautiful and revelatory gems are yielded lots of gold came from this conversation I’m just thrilled that we we got to explore these things and I feel like yeah this is Stephanie I don’t know yet I don’t know I hope that you that you write books and will you get you that mention that actually is coming full circle do you want to talk about just where people can find your website and I didn’t know you said that earlier that you do have some some books coming out is that right wordpress.com I’ve got a couple of short pieces published in the erotic on Anthology so erotic on is an annual convention for think they say like 4 for a sexual and erotic created so it’s primarily writing but also photography it’s I think it’s usually in March and this is in London and they’ve done an anthology for the past two years which happens to be the years that I’ve attended so that this the first one is called identity and erotic on Anthology and the other one is called Truth and erotic on Anthology and those are both available on Amazon and you can find I got a piece in both of those and there’s lots of other bloggers who have have pieces in there you can also find some some other great writers through those through those books awesome those sound like all great resources definitely hope folks check it out and ya feel free anytime if you feel compelled you’re welcome to share any thoughts of Revelations or new chapters are in the show I’m I’m always interested in keeping up with people who are who are on The Cutting Edge of all this is good stuff so if you have any final words to close with all means them and I’ll just say again thank you so much and it was great speaking with you tonight not a lot of people that I’m out to in the real world so it’s nice to have a chat with somebody about this stuff or I will always here for you and will definitely be in touch in the future sounds good thanks so much. Calm and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email said at the park. Com Thomas Day