Tag Archives: monogamy

Wendy Newman Pic

How to Find Your Dream Lover and Be Ridiculously Happy with Wendy Newman TPP223


In this episode I’m joined by Wendy Newman, a highly accomplished sex and relationship expert for an epic exploration of her wisdom for modern dating and intimate relating. She is a rare treasure having spent many years researching and practicing her craft. We learn about her personal journey and compare notes on how to how to evolve past old defaults of the patriarchal paradigm.

Please visit her website at: https://wendyspeaks.com/

And join her Inner Circle at:  https://www.patreon.com/wendynewman

About Wendy:

Wendy Newman is a media-celebrated author, and a dating, sex and relationship expert who’s led hundreds of workshops and revolutionized the lives of over 60,000+ women internationally. She guides women to understand men, dating, sex, and partnership of all kinds.

Since 2002, Wendy has interviewed thousands of men on relationships, love, dating, intimacy, sex, and the opposite sex. She’s conducted polls, had one-on-one discussions, and hosted over hundred male speaker panels for these topics.

Wendy is a compassionate fellow dater who navigated her way through 120 first dates before meeting her husband, Dave, lucky #121. They live in San Francisco.

Her book, 121 First Dates: How to Succeed at Online Dating, Fall in Love and Live Happily Ever After (Really!) is part juicy tell-all, part anti-rules dating guide. It’s been optioned for a television series.

You can find Wendy’s articles, features, interviews and expert advice through the following media outlets: Access Hollywood, The Wall Street Journal, U.S. News, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, The Daily Telegraph (Australia), Meetic (France), Glamour, Redbook, Self, Huffington Post, Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Elle (Canada), Honey (Australia), Salon, Your Tango, Refinery 29, Ask Men, Thought Catalog, Brit + Co, She Knows, Bustle and more.

Living the Dreams and Nightmares of Open Relationships with Mac Styles TPP206


Mac Styles Pic

In this episode I’m joined by a new friend and fan of the podcast Mac Styles for an epic adventure into the deep mysteries of love, relationships, romance, jealousy, multiple partners, threesomes, marriage, family, and beyond. His book Sex, Chicken and CoCo Butter chronicles his journey of standing up to the limiting dominant sexy paradigm, and literally fighting for his life in the struggle to love and live freely.

We get a behind the scenes look at the mechanics of opening up a relationship and able able to learn from his hard lessons and apply his wisdom to our own experiments and explorations into more wild and free love styles.

I had a great time going along for the ride, his story contains all the makings of a great adult comedy movie, sit com, talk show, reality show, etc. I can’t wait to see the book grow in popularity and help countless people develop more holistic strategies to get their sexual, emotional, financial, and spiritual needs met.

About the book:

Sex, Chicken and CoCo Butter is a narrative taken from the pages of the author’s journals during the five years of learning about different sex lifestyles, including: BDSM, polyamorous, and swinging. Streaming from sex addiction he and his wife at the time, went through a lot of trials and tribulations creating events you couldn’t believe. The author generously opens up his life and relationships to showcase for readers the power relationships with people can have in their lives. The stories talk about people in different sexual lifestyles and life experiences to show a practice not so uncommon and with mistakes that shouldn’t be repeated. The author’s viewpoint will help readers look at their own lives and relationships who practice different sexual lifestyles. The book is definitely not all positive vibes, the author shares many parts of life that are downright hard, and will deepen the impact of a positive outlook on the reader’s relationships. First time author Mac Styles lived every moment on every page of this story and now leads a more relaxed life taking the lessons learned, studying more about these different sex styles, moving on with his life and practicing building healthier relationships.

Facebook page:  www.facebook.com/authormacstyles

You can buy on amazon here! https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Chicken-CoCo-Butter-Styles/dp/1097724883

About Mac:

Originally from Fresno California Mac grew up with a love for writing. Though a difficult childhood he experienced many difficult experiences, witnessing rapes, deaths, and drugs. Masters in Homeland Security, Bachelors in Organizational Management of Criminal Justice, and Certification in Human Resource he has made it far past he ever thought he would as a 10th grade drop out. His writings are taken from his personal life but surrounding his relationships and sexual frustrations, formed in a way to take you on a journey with him. Joining the military at the age of 19 travelled the world and experienced different cultures with a woman whom he also married at the age of 19.

Mac suffered in his relationships due to a sexual addiction that plagued his relationships because of a lack of understanding and experience. Though guidance and mediation being able to channel that energy and focus it in a positive manner has inspired his writings in hopes to have people understand relationships are stronger than you could believe if honesty and sincerity is the base.

Through the last 5 years Mac has practiced BDSM and polygamous relationships and recently over the last 2 years shown an interest in tantra and energy work. Being deployed overseas has been challenging but through different mentors in Europe and a strong passion for understanding he seeks to spread what he has learned to prevent the mistakes he’s done in the past.

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello their beloveds welcome to Township on podcast episode number 206 that being joined by a Mack Stiles and he has been a fan of the podcast and we’ve he said some some kind words and reached out and I’m always interested in having folks who honor me with their kind of tension to share feel like they have a form to share the projects are working on until I get some feedback and hopefully some some attention from the audience and so with that said Mac thank you for joining me excited to hear about what you’re working on and and your backstory Beth amazing Gaston I’ve learned so much from you and I appreciate the offer on your podcast I wrote a book about my introduction into the lifestyle and it was really it expanded into so many different directions I started out as you would say walking around in the dark so to speak on not knowing which way to go as a young adolescent I got married at really young age are married at 18 because of the military so I had to bring my girlfriend with me so we moved into went to high school and went to Spain travel the world saw things but I just wasn’t wasn’t happy sexually if there was no communication between me and my wife and I just kind of logged all that as as we’ve been through and it turned into be pretty good look I’m getting good feedback and I’m returning to be a Lessons Learned book on what not to do and its raw form I was in writing the book you know I I was going to have somebody to chop it up a lot and edit it and everything but I kept in their claws for I’m just checking to see what you get out of the book is really from a Tuesday on an introduction into Queen Polly Polly life and BDSM that sounds great so yeah you know it’s good to hear that there’s people out there who actually showing some of the Shadow men certainly the struggles to get to that point so do you want to tell us kind of give us an overview of the contents of the book and some zoom into some of the highlights from the the journey to opening up and I’m and how are you all reconciled or didn’t reconcile the lifestyle change I’m so the the journey really really really begins when I meet when we go when I travel back to the FaceTime you another woman my wife at the time we had everything like we had the money we have the car as we had an amazing house six-bedroom house do you know that you had kids and all aspects of the world we were living the American dream but I we weren’t communicating with us every time we would get something in return to a fight and you see that in the book so really as soon as I found someone that was open and gave me the power to do what I wanted that it was like a magnet and all she needed to say was I think you need to tie me up and I was on it and you know Google is amazing if you know that look for but if you don’t know what to do and your girlfriend tells you say I think is it time yet the first thing normal people do regular people do would be go to Pornhub or spec site and and try to study what they were doing so there’s there was no real education for me in this realm I was just kind of going off of it and you’ll see later in the book that I found a mentor and then I have the Battle of fighting my ego and listening to everyone in their twenties and early thirties think they know it all so to speak so I’m I go through a process of learning and eventually now I’m a lot calmer cuz of Tantra meditation and and listen to the other plate other podcast study more about what I was doing wrong on the reconciliation I eventually for the divorce mostly because of the separation or I have been done been deployed now for four years and was just wasn’t getting any better so I still love her I love her to death. I have nothing but good things for I want the best for my my beautiful girls at two beautiful girls so I wish nothing but I love her to death but it’s just not a marriage situation that I’m looking for Taurus zodiac few things to catch up on their it sounds very interesting and very evolved that can just tell in your voice that you’ve put a lot of effort into this and it sounds like you know I’ve said for a while that’s if only we put as much emphasis on training and coaching for the sexuality Arts as we do for sports and violence than we would have really balanced cultures and really satisfied people in in and maybe some relationships would be will be healthier so going back to what you were saying what you were doing wrong all along what I’m curious what what do you want now looking back do you feel like we’re some of your the mistakes that you made and your journey so folks who are also starting off can learn from your wisdom and save them spare themselves are learning things the hard way so to speak that I was trying to protect my wife by lying to her like that I need it I knew that if I talk to a fight but when she found out alive we were fighting anyways so from me it was trying to protect the woman that I love and that I want to be with but I just wasn’t happy sexually so trying to communicate better and pushing that it seem like no matter what I did I wasn’t going to happen so but it’s not going to happen either way if you don’t communicate it then it’s not going to happen if you do it behind our backs and it’s the trail and it’s even worse though in through the rest of that run women are so strong and can put up with a live there in love with that person communication and studying and not being ashamed to get a mint or somebody who’s done it before I could have avoided a lot of misery if I would have listened to my mentor and been a lot more honest with the things that I was doing you’ll see in the book are there was there was some times that I love my girlfriend way more than I should have loved my way more than I love my wife at the time cuz I was I was just happy that power of that feeling of happiness that overcomes you is very powerful and learning how to balance that with with a family and a wife and trying to be trying to have things if you want it was very difficult we were we were a poly couple for probably about 8 months to a year and it worked out really well but at the end I was I was lied to the wrong situation and it ended up being exasper so you’re saying that you were that you had basically what people would consider an affair right he had an affair with somebody who who was on a more open path and you’re starting to experience kind of an out-of-the-box thinking sexually and have some of your frustrated desires be fulfilled and that was that was happy but then that you’re saying that that relationship that probably Affair relationship ended badly that there was something at the failed error. Right time of year that was the what’s the difference is where I would probably still be with the girlfriend if I if I wasn’t so far away but yeah we were after after I have the affair then I have the great idea of bringing the girlfriend to the wife and that one over horribly at first but then threw time he has a marriage counseling and and after she almost tried to kill me a few times she pulled a gun on me she tried to stab me and it just got really that really dramatic there for a little while and I was your wife is a Griffin girlfriend in love with out for about a year and we are all together having fun and I had a blast Republic happiest I’ve ever been enough when I kind of decided that was I wanted that lifestyle poly rope that poly lifestyle and and now I’m able to do that I’m able to I’m able to balance that and and have no type of relationship lessons learned of being open and honest and expressing what I want what I need wow that that is amazing that should be a sitcom that should be I mean really you that’s the American dream having your cake and eating it too and and and actually do it like you should you didn’t she didn’t kill you you cheated run away you didn’t run away you didn’t you didn’t leave your kids you know you didn’t you actually stayed and manned up and held your post down and ran your business of being a family man and and you sustained her wave of rage and then now I’m super interested in how you were able to master that transition of integration and transmuting her that Rage of hers into acceptance like that is what we all I thought I would say all straight or straightish men or whatever you know if wish that they could have your cake and eat it too and have what in the poly Community they call in re new relationship energy and think that’s a nice way of I mean the there’s there’s lots of I think really proactive and emotionally intelligent new terms that are coming out from the Poliwhirl like compersion about you know the opposite of jealousy actually enjoying seeing pleasure happened with someone who love that it’s in your in your just avoid her or you just know about it and feeling good about a resin bad and this other notion of new relationship energy the old Paradigm would be from a negative Place saying oh you you hate me you sick of me you don’t want me you want some BLS I’m shit so I’m going to be suicidal and homicidal now as opposed to being like Oh new relationship energy I get it I seek that too I feel like seduced in excited by that every time I walk out the front door and actually went to go and favor and then had tacos and margaritas after it was as if it was a very Twisted web and I look forward to turn into some type of thick, movie or something cuz it was it’s a really good read I’ve got nothing but good reviews I’m not the greatest the book isn’t the greatest as far as the sexy and then there’s the second in there but it’s it’s in there for a reason when when we connected like there’s a scene where me and my wife and my girlfriend I’ll get a room at a hotel and we’re having a good time together and my wife is in her face and I’m and I’m you know having sex with my girlfriend and we all connect and it’s perfect like that feel like I was on top of the world and then my wife went to the bathroom and then me and my girlfriend who really like really getting it in life turn around the corner and saw that I was enjoying myself basically without her and she flipped the script she ran to the car so let me in a hotel you know 3/4 miles away from the 3-4 hours away from the house and it was just a complete disaster so we went through all of that so endure that and put up with a lot of those things as isn’t far-fetched that’s that was the old way this is even more if it’s even more exciting cuz I think this is like it’s so I feel like figuring out how to get to Mars on figuring out how to have cold fusion even World Peace it’s like making I think we’ll get this feels like it’ll be sooner and you would appreciate this from you know you’re at your career is it like it’s like it’s more likely almost I think that that we will all come together and meltdown all of the national borders sing Kumbaya and forget all of the religious conflicts before women in these situations and men but people in these situations will actually not be psychotic around sharing each other’s body with other people like and it seems like if we saw that if we can figure out how to solve that then these other bigger issues of world peace and and green technology and you know economics like I think they’re all going to flower and Blossom from these bedroom issues so if you could I would love to to zoom into that because you know iPhone I’ve been dancing on those eggshells you know and and really studying these interpersonal Dynamics and I’m trying to figure out how to find those harmonious interactions among the women wear the obsessiveness over who gets the man and who gets the majority of the man’s wealth which is what is the bigger subconscious thing to me especially if you have the kids I mean it’s an economic bargain you know on your it’s it’s there’s so much going on there about who is going to take the Lion’s Share literally the Lion’s Share of like what efforts were talking about a more Primal State it’s like the economics of your the stud and you come back with a kill and of course you’re going to share with everybody but there’s going to be a sort of hierarchy of who you share it with which members of the clan or the tribe of the band in the psych those sexual politics around around resource-sharing they get they can get very tricky but there is a sweet spot and I think we used to know how to be very women to you know they could bargain with their with their sexuality and men with bargain with their sexuality and we’re just going to such a high-stakes game now where if you did if you did fall in love with someone else I would say that I would imagine the logic of your wife is that I’m going to be homeless at the soup kitchen line with my kids being taken away by the state if this guy if this guy has more pleasure with someone else I am at risk of losing my you know my Empire or you know the queendom of the kingdom of whatever so could you talk about your just get really deep into the as much as you can you know you care to share that isn’t too you know confidential or whatever route what you were learning from the conscious and subconscious conflicts between the women over you and your resources and your cock and your love in your heart I would say that you’re right on about the Primal Instinct there because she didn’t give up even give up a lot of jealous thing did a lot of you would say things were okay but then we came to do them we would fight for it almost did not let things things sexually between us started getting better because of the competition we were having sex almost every day I I was and no secret Manor will I ever go to sleep tight back and there was no conversation on anything outside of that so once I got the girlfriend things became very very interesting she started finding the swingers party she started trying to compete and make you happy so I would that would agree with you in the fact that I started to pick up after that getting down deeper I think both of them really love me and help me out in the situation cuz I didn’t have a father either I was there when I didn’t have a family member to turn to if they hate my life who was amazing but it only get you so far until you run out of this is Uncharted Territory for me and I don’t know what to do wow this is even this is just continuing the flow and get more amazing your Vista Camanche is because I mean I have I’ve sacrificed a lot to avoid a lot of you situations and but you had The Bravery to go through it and live it and and you know I’ve been I’ve been a fugitive on the run from some of the most excited women who have just made me very I would say hesitant to to get into those deeply embedded financial and and and familial relationship relationship dynamics that make it like so explosive and destructive when things go go wrong you know so I have like the time has been good for me because it does give you that sort of permission and exaltation to not be a householder and do your spiritual path and devote up to vote one lifetime or you know however many you want but it’s like you want to walk away from the village and go be a freaky you know you know Shaman Mystic out in the mountains or whatever like that’s cool you know and then you might have some insights that can trickle back down and and serve people who are living that really routinized family life and so you kind of you give them both so that makes you a hero and contract terms a Time trick hero for doing the spiritual work and the family work and in an opening up so I applaud you for that for sure and I want to ask you also know about so this is very very interesting when you what you just and this would definitely be like an important part of a film script r or a playwright you know where you’re you’re really exposing something that we all know about which is you know you could call him any different things but for lazy sex or just going through the motion sex or even what one of my partner said when I was becoming, not so much a Lazy Lover but it wasn’t like you said we weren’t talking it wasn’t knew it was like the same as just became the same fucking thing and it was like in in the the pockets of time in between work and commuting and chores and whatever and it just was not sacred it wasn’t scheduled it wasn’t really high energy and it was done when we were exhausted and all we could do is just lay there on her fucking sides at a point so yeah I could you can talk more about that because I think we all get in that trap and if that’s what kills everything you know cuz afterwards she enjoyed it she enjoyed doing the party enjoyed playing with other girls and experiencing that but it took it took a lot to me to find another girlfriend that was do it openly and that it would be okay for us to get to that point and it should have never experienced those things together instead of the why am I not enough why can’t you just be satisfied with me constant discussion that was whatever to always go back to 2 the wheel of boredom in inconstant didn’t answer that routine was a war I have everything I had the family the kids cars that I were in that aspect of life I would have been content but I just the routine was killing me something to break me out of that routine I went for it I was happy in that power that work happy is very very powerful you want to stay somewhere. The woman that I was with the girlfriend didn’t have all those things you were the borderline alcoholic and I couldn’t talk to you if you were my friend and turn made her want to do more and the Twisted the story towards the end is she made me get rid of the girlfriend found a new girlfriend and I was supposed to be for both the bus with him leaving me tell me if you want to divorce you didn’t have time later but ended up having another girlfriend and not include me in it not coming home you know how I dealt with that in the book was probably not the right answer either cuz I wouldn’t say I was jealous but when your wife doesn’t come home and she’s off with the girlfriend everyday and I got a taste of my own medicine I ended up going back with the girlfriend and then we started to start living her life with her girlfriend I was with my life with my girlfriend and family Dave do both kind of sit in the house and plan on each other and in that aspect I think that was stuck with the most was with my kids with my grandma with their grandma or my family by my wife not coming home yeah man this is this is so interesting honestly feel like this is what if America hadn’t been so grotesquely addicted to the toxic drama and that was being screwed by Jerry Springer imagine if Jerry Springer was actually a ton trick Master healer BDSM coach all those things and he would actually facilitate group orgies on stage and it would just you know it would go x-rated after a certain point you know it could be a he’s actually stirring up an and reinforcing all of the negative sex sex negative homophobic like like those I just think about every Jerry Springer episode if I could have been there to counterbalance what with a paradigm that was being maintained by Jerry Bengston we will be talking we will be all having these Oprah like crying her eyes out give me a box of tissues moments of like people actually realizing hey it’s okay to like see another man naked fucking her wife if it’s okay to you no have a girlfriend cuz your boy because your husband has a girlfriend and you want to have your own thing like and just actually thinking these things out well maybe that was great for grandma because she wanted to hang out with the kids for well well this is not mean seriously this is needs to be the night the new enlightened thing because people can learn a lot from this and I’m really fascinated by the like I feel like if there’s if there’s anything on my run has a lot about now it’s about it’s about like showing initiate women into the mystery of not necessary lesbianism but at least bisexuality so that they see what they’ve been missing out on and it sounds like you were so successful that almost backfired on you but I feel like I want to say that’s a good problem to have because you know what I think is so beautiful about bisexuality is that is that it short-circuits that I have to be everything to you script because if you know somebody’s but like if I know a woman’s bike actual I will know that I can never ever be more than 50% of meeting her needs and so I can be content with that and I don’t have to consume all of her and control her and find her I can be like yeah I know I’m only going to be like half the battle of you know when it comes to your your your love and sex life so I’m cool with that and going to win on these things yet go out for now go up on what just the the process of the other process of what I guess what it was like for you to facilitate the initiation of a woman into like had she ever been with women before was a totally new to her when she totally freaked out by it and then she warmed up or I had expressed a little what I wanted and she said that she was curious but and you wanted to do the thing every time the situation came up it was always the first the very first woman that we were able to have a girl on her phone and talked and acted as my wife basically saying hey come help me with this dick and I swear to God it wasn’t it wasn’t five minutes because she was knocking on the door blanket and pillow ready to have some drinks and get it in but my wife and then and then but then my wife was like no I have to make sure my mom has all all the tax information if you need to find excuse for everything what I wanted and he’s going to do it for me so she took a deep breath is a story of the spot for a couple weeks and then we did it again and then there was some funny story that you start this the woman is going to have rules of what you want what what makes me the wife what makes me more special than her why or whatever so her rule was I couldn’t I couldn’t eat out another girl we went out to a is going into the book too but we went out to the club and we all had a good time I wasn’t drinking cuz I was with you. But once we got to see if I binge drank and base with this plan blacked out and she I don’t remember much of anything so I don’t drink much anymore like to do it myself but he was so mad cuz I guess I hadn’t the girl out and she was so mad you left outside and she thought she locked herself outside in time we were on the beach and in the naked woke up naked outside and I ended up waking up and she wasn’t there and hand that turned into this situation was a lot harder otherwise this was a lot easier this process is a lot harder Because You Loved Me a lot of jealousy involved but I think that if I would have been a lot more able to communicate what I wanted and make sure that she felt more special and I gave her something where I pay more attention to her than it would have been in love with love and respect those things that I wanted would have been I don’t think that I was doing that as a husband I was cuz I was bored I was upset I was mad at the fact that every time you try to do something so I wasn’t getting money for filled and I definitely wasn’t feeling her and there was the conflict of you want to do this for me but afterward they haven’t benefit out of it now I’m right now I’m I’m able to realize by the person needs attention in this matter if holidays and and then I need to pay more happy to give you those things yeah that says a lot right there because you know I think that’s the that’s the secret and that’s The Sweet Spot and it’s really a paradox because a lot of times it’s like people don’t seek that new relationship energy until the nest is is fouled and and it’s like in a perfect world it would be a preventive it’s like one ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure you know so stay hey we know we’re going to get bored with each other the the honeymoon phase is going to wear off we’re going to really start like looking over each others shoulders you know as we kiss and because we know that’s inevitable let’s actually set up those parameters now and figure out what we got to do to have the most solid and secure primary family Corps Duty responsibility relationship happening and that way it’s always adding a bonus and it’s not feeling like it’s it’s exploiting a weakness to to to have the new relationship energy in it and you know a perfect world we would all be doing that but it’s almost like in the shin hurts like people have this aversion to two contracts you know how they say like by like the saying contracts are going to save more friendships and they’re going to destroy even if it’s things like borrowing a few bucks you know what I mean like people think are no contracts that’s for strangers and people who don’t trust each other know it’s for fucking everybody and every one of your other podcast you were talking about remember that remember that new love feeling look what you did to make that person feel special or the things that made each other happy because like you said that like the other podcast back towards the end of the you know when the love is gone and the feeling is gone and they don’t remember how to make that person to do that way again and that is a lot of the writing that I’m doing now to the things that are working is what been taught me today to put in number two in and how I developed them came from the wandering in the dark to the light sand and opening my third eye so to speak in the realm of well I will again I’m really touched knowing that I’m having this affect tinnitus that you know this is really the I feel like so much of the work that I do is like really sci-fi and it’s kind of like something that should be quarantined into a very no Dark Sector of research on human sexuality but really the fruits the fruits of that composting that the sewage of the human no experience should be that we have way more happy and healthy standards for getting our needs Madden for avoiding the really toxic and negative things that that turn into different forms of abuse so you know what to hear you talk about it really been able to apply some of the the more sunny day bright shiny happy stuff that I can talk about it’s really it’s really nursing for me to hear that cuz that’s just yeah man we should we should not be we should not be feeling like Humanity was born yesterday with all the stuff you know like every generation should be building on more wisdom and so thank you for doing this this great work it’s so brave of you to have explored this and now I’m really excited about the book I hope you have a great voice to would you consider doing an audiobook version for those of us who are so so multitasking and Hyper testing that we can’t barely slowed down at my editing skills are probably not up to par really should be so yes I am but I’m definitely going to and I want to write the script I really went through so much I don’t think there’s ever going to be a movie out there at the live the life that I live the during actually wrote this years ago and in the process of everything but I was too nervous and do the same dance to at all these emotions surrounding that that it was impossible to publish but I feel like I’ve grown into another person so to speak that I am not that person anymore and I can learn to that other people shouldn’t have to go through for sure man so also yeah happy to go for another few minutes and and get into the other sort of this the subplot or if this was a movie you know you would get the scenes of you and your personal Agony and your personal process and then the the scenes of the two women that you’ve introduced in the storyline and their private worlds and their ways of dealing with things and then all the just the snapchats that you would get from the different triangle Dynamics but there is like a another character which is kind of the Medicare actor and that is the mentor you speak of so could you tell us about how that relationship development evolved and then how that started to inform you and certainly I think most importantly when you say that if you would only had that meant to her earlier on you would have made these mistakes I’m super curious what that meant to or told you later that you would have applied that would have made these things work better in addition to what you said about how you just you know you could have kept it clean her house as far as the beekeeping the relationship more secure but yeah whatever you got from that let’s hear that and there was two speeches is being kind of Taboo in the area so I opened a swinging Groupon on social media and if we rushed it was doing amazing I was having parties before it was everything that I wanted but I want entertainment at my party so I started searching out for performed or something along those lines and I met up with a guy who was offering that service and he turned out to be a great friend of time and he started telling me about his role as a Dom and just started like Steve college and I was like I had no idea that was just deep and then I started diving into more of the DSM stuff because my girlfriend wanted it I really didn’t know what I was doing last night so he would he would teach me really the mental game of things that I stood 50 doing as far as paying attention or even different techniques with DSM how to flush don’t know how hot I mean it can be taught to do it correctly or where is the Rope play is I’m still learning that I’m I’m going to a lesson on Thursday so I mean there’s so much to learn in this realm how to be better and what to do better there’s always something new to learn from I mean if you go to summon to you I guess DSM Fire play and all that kind of you have to be able to look for a little boy got me to the point where I was able to pinpoint different person sign in to make sure that she came quickly or I could pressure point then he was very educational land and taught me a lot of very humbled to he was a good Mentor at the time that’s cool I’m glad to hear that and I think that should go that should serve as a public service announcement that end in the sometimes underground sometimes more above ground but but certainly in the adult communities there is a lot of mentorship available and a lot of camaraderie and solidarity and people are very open and very excited to share and to greet new people in the yeah I think as men it’s must much less that is as in with all sectors I think it’s much less predatory and you would have you would have less of a of a chance of having a bad experience you know just showing up to a play party or a dungeon or whatever so I would say if any if it if to the young women who are listening to this you know use the buddy system because not not everybody out there and in these Realms has your best interest at heart and maybe you want to go for that hike if it’s your thing to be you know put into into risky situations then I’m not going to you no say there’s anything wrong with you but I would say that there is there’s a lot more good than bad I think that if the case could be made that it’s the it’s the the vanilla Society where the Shady stuff happens because there are no rules no is no discussion and Consciousness so it’s probably probably safer in a dungeon then on the street or at a club member always welcome and always willing to teach and I’m sure what they got what they want to do and I’m watching normally at those type of education welcome to learn from each other so and I definitely don’t put yourself into a situation where there is locked door is too and I’ve been doing this now for seven or eight years and I rarely have been experiencing some bad experiences in my book because there’s there’s a couple where drugs does the party than I thought things were going to get out of control but I was able to calm him down and then the situation is still out there but more often than not wanting to pass their knowledge so definitely keep out the mentorship and and if you have any questions yeah I find somebody that I found them by the accident but knowing that you can go to those those website and type in words you can find pray I’ll survive well this is really been a treasure and unfortunately the audio quality has been phasing in and out which I think we should talk again sometime and and if I go up and see if we can get a better audio call you but I will do my best to get this to to sound as good as I can but I think that overall the the vibe is set and I feel like it’s a it’s even more of a teaser that it’s like oh my God I just want to I want it I want to hear this whole story I told you this totally and that is a good spin on some trouble that I got myself into but section and you can find it on the page author next by Kool and I will do you want to give so that was good enough for just for people to find it do you have an exact homepage website or just Google search Amazon right now but there’s no other book that I can find that sex chicken and cocoa butter cocoa butter yes that is it sounds like a fun evening yeah can’t wait to know what that with that actually is is talking about so I do want to say and respect life has been nothing but supportive and because we put I put a lot of the you know the secret lives on on post are on on blast and then so she’s been very supportive and loving and I think she’s growing as a person to so I want to commit to her in the mail my ex girlfriend because they’ve both been so amazing so in support of something that was a secret world 2 at one time yeah thank you for saying that I actually have a book that is in editing with the publisher right now and I can say the same thing like I just want to thank everybody who I gave a fictitious name to but basically totally exposed in and put a spotlight on you know hopefully was all for all of our growth and evolution and and for sure man I’m glad that that’s working out for you and who knows maybe she’ll hit me up and be like hey I wrote a book to Bam here’s the other kids riding her but everything okay you come come with your book and then you fucking like man this is so constructed like thank you for being constructed with this this usually goes in such terrible horrific and then the children are always the ones who are victimized the worst when when adults don’t have their their bedroom game figured out right so you know so right on that will I wish you the best and yet hope you feel all so you know that you’re you’re fighting the good fight out there in the world and I wish you the best in that department and she have any other words you want to share the clothes that’s great but I think you did a great a great job and thanks for for sharing everything is really a blast thank you was an honor you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and click on the Donate button to help support the shop in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple after bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at Country Park. Com Thomas gay


Designer Relationships with Mark Michaels and Patricia Johnson TPP93


Mark and Patricia picIn this episode I’m joined by my favorite tantric power couple to talk about applying tantric principles and techniques to create designer relationships beyond the mono-normative mythology.

Please visit their website at:

Please visit their instructor’s website:

About Mark and Patricia:

Mark A. Michaels and Patricia Johnson are the authors of the new book Designer Relationships: A Guide to Happy Monogamy, Positive Polyamory, and Optimistic Open Relationships (Cleis Press, September 2015). A devoted married couple, they have been creative collaborators––teaching and writing about relationships, sexuality, and Tantra––since 1999. In addition to Designer Relationships, they have written Partners in Passion (Cleis Press), Great Sex Made Simple, Tantra for Erotic Empowerment, and The Essence of Tantric Sexuality (Llewellyn). They are also the creators of the COVR Award-winning meditation CD set Ananda Nidra: Blissful Sleep.

Internationally known as experts in sexuality, Michaels and Johnson have taught throughout the United States, as well as in Canada, Europe, and Australia. They have been featured on television and radio and widely quoted in numerous publications. They are cofounders of the Pleasure Salon, a monthly gathering in New York City that brings together sex-positive people and pleasure activists from a variety of communities.

p&m8Michaels is a graduate of New York University School of Law and holds master’s degrees in American Studies from NYU and Yale. Formerly a playwright and translator, he has translated, adapted, and cowritten various works for the stage. Johnson is a retired professional operatic soprano who toured extensively throughout the United States, Europe, and South America. She currently works in turtle conservation; she is certified in reptile monitoring by the Smithsonian-Mason School of Conservation and is a New York state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator.

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 92 I am here on Skype with Mark and Patricia Michaels and Mark and I had done an episode a while back about Tantra and punk he had a seminal essay that I found when I was Googling around in the early days of my Township Punk adventures and I was like wow this is a serious precedent in this deep into the mosh pit is a sort of Kundalini Shakti experience and a lot of really fun stuff those of you have that certain Punk background please go back in and check that out and yeah now that we’re all here together for the first time I would love to get a the story of your background together in your Your Love Story and you’re encountering your sacred sexuality paths and and then all of the bibliography of your great co-creative works and then now what brought me into this you know to Cosmic nice to have you on together now is that you’re doing some really amazing groundbreaking coursework for the top level of six allergy and therapy and sexual therapy so really helping people understand how to consciously design relationships that are really meeting people’s needs on a deeper level beyond the the mono normative mythology that were that were stuck in here that was something of Patricia said just a minute ago so with all that said Thank you again so much for joining me and please go ahead and tell us all about you and your infinite Glory 1999 previous sexual experiences were really like I was getting these little glimpses into something I felt was very very profound and then it would just go away and I was like what is that I don’t feel like there’s really a lot there and I started researching Western Sex Magic practices taoism Tantra and was really the concept of sexuality is a energetic phenomena rather than a physiology really resonated with me and I really I really had a keen interest it’s it’s funny when you’re you’re dating a gentleman in their twenties and you go hey the sex was really great but we can do really cool stuff look at this book how they react oh my God I don’t even want to talk about it wasn’t successful in finding someone who was interested in practicing with me at that time I was giving a lecture in New York in 1999 and it was my first public talk on Tantra and I was very nervous and very very over-prepared and and I I came in with a stack of papers and I gave my talk and you was there and she said she brought to Tricia up and introduced us I was thinking that this was the first time I I I was just really wanted to learn more about Tantra at that point in my life and I remember sitting in that lecture thinking all right mr. Tom’s room and you only see your teacher cuz you can’t get laid right cigars like leaning back hands crossed against my chest and the guy newest stuff I was like this is a really interesting and at the end of it he offered up his email address this is beckons Isle of days it was so fun and you just said if you have any questions and I was like somebody I can start talking to about this stuff so we started a pretty Lively email conversation Reddit turn up the listserv together so I was I had seen some of her posts and eat I realize that although she didn’t have the sort of the information piece that I had from doing a lot of research that energetically she was she was right there and understood all of those aspects really really well the later we ended up finally getting together actually I screwed up my courage and ask them out to coffee and we ended up having sushi together and I was like right before going oh my God what am I doing in my hiring this guy that I’d like to teach me that I don’t know if I can do that but I’m like oh my God I really want to know station that might my teaching role was not going to be at all hands on at that point I was really interested in where in imparting information and giving people skills not not doing the Hands-On stuff and also be having read what she’d written you know I I kind of knew that there wasn’t a whole lot that I could teach her I can teach you anything and I was like oh you know can we at least be friends and I said why don’t why don’t we explore the sexual and so we really just decided to get together to practice I’m so happy to hear we are 18 years later Tantra when we started with which I gave I am it’s so powerful so powerful we use it everyday we still this is our go to practice and I never thought I would ever be in a long-term relationship and I definitely marriage was not part of my life and then furthermore I never thought I’d write books with its Johnson so that’s a little bit of our story and and so we started practicing together and I think we taught our first class together about six months after that it’s a basic intro in a basic little teaser kind of class we started looking but we really wanted somebody really tied in with traditional training so I wish we weren’t funny so easily in the Americas in the US so we landed on dr. John Mumford who had been going to India since the 50s since he was young Rogue one of the one of the first kind of first generation of American Tantra books that ecstasy through Tantra which was called initially sexually sexual occultism which came out in 1976 I believe very extensive online worse that he still teaches to this day and it’s his students worldwide and it is the real tradition you learn as you go through the chakra system but you spend three weeks per chakra studying all aspects of it and really getting well-versed in knowing your inner energetic working switch is you know unique to each person is a profound experience mentions the sexual aspects but the focus of the course is really on the esoteric in her energetic and not the the sexual side of it but it’s if it’s really it is it is a very very profound experience of of going deep into traditional practices the the structure of the teaching and the chakras was it kind of one by one starting from going from root to Crown or and then if you have just any bullet points of the outline I’m just curious route to Crown that’s like the top was Schutte practice and he wants you start working with you the chakra system and learning the sensory organs the yantras which we’ve worked hard on internalizing on it’s like you’re getting at something external and he’s a sociopath by training and Physiology right or anatomy anatomy and so he use the physiology of the eye the ocular functioning to open a window to internalize that yantra by using the complementary colors you i gaze at it for a while and when you close your eyes that yantra pops into your inner Consciousness it’s it’s profound it’s like that he discovered how to get into the into the Psyche on that way that’s just one of the practices it’s it’s pretty one of those steady ones and I’m you’re fine as you work up through the chakras this way there’s this layering of knowledge that bills on it so your building on your previous knowledge and it just starts to on that Foundation before you even get to this whole structure and the results of the instead of being an abstraction or being something that seems sort of woo-woo the you get this internal sense and I don’t really care personally whether the chakras are a real thing or not they’re they’re really useful for mapping you’re in our world and that’s kind of the way he taught it and by getting it into your body in that way by realizing how the mantras affect your body it gives you a really really focused and specific way of thinking about them it’s very personal at the same time knowledge and so many different way everyday life awesome episode maybe we can jump ahead into the writing because our first book was was based on his lectures that he gave him in the in the mid-70s in Gnostic on which was one of the first of those kind of occult on you no cons that they haven’t hotels probably be first first time and initiated Swami and gave a public lecture on the sexual practices of Tantra unfortunately some people kind of co-opted his work and what we really wanted to do was restructiv bring it back bring it into written form update it with his you know when we works with his original notes in an expanded with his current knowledge cuz it’s this man is physiology did you know that was not that have not been done back then so we kind of Flushed it out and you know updated sort of perspectives on gender we we brought in more contemporary and more of our take on it for sizes and stuff so it’s really fun book that’s called the essence of tantric sexuality that’s our first one came out in 2005 and it’s still cruising along so you’ve had a number of other a number of other titles and then so designer relationships is the one that will will definitely focus on the most here but I’m curious if you want to gloss over the other titles in that before we get today backwards in a funny way and then moved in a very different directions to Arc are people read essence of tantric sexuality in and said well this is great but I really am a beginner and this too much for me so that’s has 14 lessons and it’s designed to work through individual as a couple or with how many lovers you have is your group that you want to work with is really it’s a workbook with a lot of journaling and a lot of self-exploration we focus on on sexuality is a way to have mystical experiences and and sexual self knowledge is the gateway to personal empowerment didn’t people said that’s great we want a beginners book great sex Made Simple which is our Tantra doesn’t bite and it’s very proud of that book that book 1 several literary awards and it is distilled down each chapter is about 602000 words and you can put it on your bedside crack it open look at a technique and go hey honey let’s try this tonight it’s it’s fun it’s really a fun book but we also really charged with the tantric sensibility in perspective as we understand it so that even though it’s a tip kind of format in it and a quick and easy read for people it it’s got a lot of pretty obvious it’s very stuck in some really bad practices that we just couldn’t help ourselves it’s just like we knew publisher approached us because we were a couple teaching about relationships and stuff she was like we really want a couple’s book and that was clear press they do a lot of lgbtq the leading queer publishing house in the country guys can you include lgbtq people and we’re like on Howard how they love or who they love you know because that changes the key principles behind a successful relationship doesn’t seem to change so much so that’s Partners in passion when we after we wrote partners and passionately we I guess we were just doing whatever press we could and we got an opportunity to go on a a show that was being done by a fine independent production house but that was also going to be shown on Fox News in DC and it was on polyamory and open relationships and we kind of got on the show is experts and the what are the really the trigger for me to to do designer relationship was that the interviewer said she had talked to people if she done person on the street interviews and she said about 40% of the people that she talked to said they felt it up and relationships can work that really blew me away because we’ve been going to polyamory events from day one and you know where peripherally involved in the movement and I guarantee you in 2004 she wouldn’t have gotten 40% of the people saying it you know they were okay with the idea about the relationship I just wouldn’t have happened so yeah that was really exciting and it really seemed like the culture was ready to start finding a new way of relating because you’re moving into designer relationships where you wanted to move Beyond a binary concept you know either you’re open you’re closed your monogamous or your non-monogamous and that fact is is no one is either one of those were kind of in a Continuum in the middle 10% of purely I don’t like things to contemplate to find out how and where they uniquely find their loved one at relay and now you know when stop comparing yourself to this like the monolithic mono normative saying that it’s and it’s mythical everyone acts like it’s very real but no two people to find it the same way and I need to let me know I think that we also have a lot into history and and and sort of the way that relationships have evolved in our society and I grew up in the 70s and we people talked about premarital sex you know save it for marriage but you could do it before you got married Twin Oaks who is is there are are are beef I guess is not is with his unconscious with a forcing of people like they do but where else to be in life sign a contract for life and never discuss the terms with the person you’re going to we wanted he were big fans of chosen monogamy and we do and we’ve interviewed couples that have gone through all kinds of relationships tiles and realize that their who’s in the best Ultimate relationship style is a monogamous one for the midnight that’s gorgeous whatever your relationship starts to look like as long as it’s chosen consciously and after many discussions and when many possibilities are you going to really land on what’s perfect for you and your your beloved’s Sunnyvale you know depending on circumstances I mean so yeah do you do you have more you want to share about the course that you just the course where you put together and that seems like it’s a head that must have been a major undertaking to take this and make it into a real track you can take an individual course of anybody’s welcome so you don’t have to be on track to become a sexologist so you can just take an individual course just cuz you’re interested in that topic and yeah it we outlined introduced the students to various relationships types and really that a lot of people really enjoyed and you know it it’s a I don’t remember how many lessons are exactly in the course but there’s homework with each one is it 14-3 assignment for people to watch and respond to songs that deal with different kinds of relationships Styles it’s a sex continuing ed credit eligible and is there another one where else we go we want people to write their definition of monogamy I believe that’s in there I haven’t it’s been awhile since I basically it’s geared toward people who are dealing with clients so we want to provide students with tools to help clients who are dealing with these type of questions and he’s that process right that’s so cool yeah just said that I don’t people don’t know what they don’t know and if they are on the language they can’t even imagine thinking out of the box into this ether of amorphous who knows we’ll head but if there’s actually a structure of known relationship types that can be patterned and can be sort of model and then and then adapted that’s seems like a really should go back earlier and in our armed or primary education about what’s possible designer by no means comprehensive because you know you know it’s a rough outline but it is not completely new wrinkles that you know people to find sex or sexual energy is also still expanding its exciting yeah definitely this is it’s great that there’s a the demand is is increasing and you all are on the Forefront of supplying some very healthy guidance and I think about it it’s a lot of people that don’t live well or represent their lifestyle of being on a ton truck path well or can kind of give it a bad name or they can leave a bad taste to return people ask but I feel like I owe you all have a sort of a higher level of as you might not see but certain certainly credibility and having your lasted as a passionate couple and then do you want to talk about what what his work best for you or what some of you know if you had to drink some of these obviously like you said everybody’s different but you know maybe there’s probably beginner and up to advance levels that require a lot more self-mastery and then you know I’m just wondering if you have a sort of a simple cheat sheet to the beginning was really really that’s the foundational practice process communication is important talking to be overrated that means basically people feel a rift you know they still a little distant from their partner and they think or maybe a little irritated me they have some conflict and the first thing I want to do is start trying to talk their way back into feeling connected again and the reality is that’s really backwards you communication is not going to happen well when you feeling misunderstood her or distant from your partner you you got to be in with connecting silently on energetic level and once you start to feel that your breath relax and all of that and then start those conversations with me it’s worth the effort and it takes is stops a lot of microaggression Tendencies You Know You Remember on a deep deep level that you’re really Partners you’re together and that whatever this issue is your working together collaborating to come up with Solutions you know you’re not working against one another and so the eye gazing we do it will we do it if we feel a little bit of a rest and ideas for 3 or 4 minutes is it happened before where Markle go okay you know we can talk now you know what was bothering you and I’m like what I don’t remember you know and sometimes really what’s bothering you is that you’re still out of sync you know it’s not the milk it’s not you know who wrote that email is not that silly stuff you just want to feel connected yeah there’s certainly I totally agree with that I feel like I’ve had two I wanted to win getting becoming romantic with someone really build the habit of no dancing through conflict or you know okay we got to somehow meet in in the non-verbal affirmative space and then that just takes that for one if you’re you’re less likely to yell at each other if you’re sitting really close to her chest in the tenderness is Whispering and being closed it it just takes that that said out of the emotions little bit of sure idea out there in our culture that a happy relationship is a conflict-free relationship and actually City’s true that to be wrong if couples report that they never fight they’re lying so yeah we fight but we get through it and so it is not looking for Conflict Free your conflict as an opportunity to really learn more and get to get deeper connection and game deeper understanding and not weeds to bonding it’s how you resolved the conflict that matters really more than whether it’s there or not you are prescribed so to speak of or around the issue if I’m having kind of a mission statement in a bigger picture in a higher purpose that’s really well defined and can kind of always be dated but I just feel like if a couple is living moment to moment just trying to get their basic kind of childish needs for Comfort mat and they’re not focused on the bigger picture where they’re going to accept that there’s going to be some molehills that you know you don’t want him to turn into mountains in your really focused on a higher Journey you know a bigger Mission so is that something that you have seen as being a core element to successful Partnerships and something that you would see no invite people to explore purpose statement of purpose and I think you know why are you guys so fucking good together you know why are you so awesome what’s list all of that and be clear and then move on to you know of those wonderful what is are there ones that we can explore further you were Superstars now what if we could eat at the same time is our and then we move into goals you know Siri start with reaffirming your foundation people who wanted to open a relationship or start being more adventurous sexually together and we we did encourage them to craft a statement of purpose around. Specific thing so you know what do we hope to enhancing our relationship through this exploration what you know what are our concerns how can we deal with those concerns so rather than having rules and agreements other of those have their value this was much more about having having mutuality having shared goals and then we we type of expanded that incident the entire relationship it’s you know it’s not a contract it’s not a negotiation it’s a it’s a vision statement this conversation and talk about the Uso and it in there this you want to also talk that if we feel like we’ve hit a bump how are we going to how we going to get back on even footing and I know what works for us are we going to let you know take a break let’s say you know we’re exploring BDSM or something as a you know what exercises you know what is that happens all I’m going to need a week off you know just to contemplate and you know what Justin and then we can talk again or talk about it again or whatever works for everyone I’m kind of seeing that there’s more power and resilience in the affirmative the foundation material that you’re describing and lessen the yeah punitive scary rules what all hell you know what the hell breaks loose will be the end of the world if our the deal breakers in all that negative stuff I feel is what kind of event horizon or what I’m what I’m working through that I’m curious if you know what you what your thoughts will be is around around the the work of sexual healing and in working with survivors of sexual trauma and sort of what I’m arriving at myself as a Survivor who’s been sort of called by that the Dharma of being in service and is a DACA morning to do that in the most highest ethical way in and have the most accountability in the most scrutiny and oversight I’ve kind of arrived at it at a point where I feel that there is a a I need for certified Collective collectives of healers to work together in where there’s various roles were people are playing you know you sure very all very well-versed in the different healing techniques and it feels like a lot of my peers and colleagues who are in the mail. Ghostface are really putting themselves and their their clients in in potential Peril by just working in privacy alone without at least one Observer who is a nurturing playing a role of a nurse that say but I feel like what what I’m hoping this can evolve towards is and I’m kind of pioneering this in my own practices is more of a collective safety-net almost like a sexual healing welfare program where instead of getting into a toxic relationship where you might you know have to relive trauma or be with an unskilled non-healing the person that there’s a sort of foundational opportunity to experience and to have a a bare minimum requirement of your nourishment nurturing and healing needs met and then that gives you more discernment in the dating world but say I’m just wondering if you have what your thoughts are advice around people who are a little more sensitive and Andrew and you know they’re just trying to kind of put themselves back together in and use the time the time sheet skills and in tools for those kind of purposes back to the early days when Patrician I met I made a very conscious choice that I didn’t want to identify as a Healer I didn’t want to do healing work because I don’t think that’s where my skills are I think of myself as an educator and I think that it’s very very perilous when you get into positioning when when anyone gets into the positioning themselves as being a Healer site I’d like what you’re saying about accountability I think that’s really important and it’s been lacking in the Tantra world for sure I like the community relational part because the person facilitating really right it’s basically you’re guiding your client into understanding and finding their own internal part of their self that will heal themselves you know you should feel like taking them to finding their so call themselves you know so but in that the collaborative part I think that’s when that happens it’s a relational process as well I guess it a crude sense I kind of feel like what happens is that you’re just jump starting someone Shakti and then once you kind of once they’re running again then they can start to rebuild the you know the resilience in themselves and make better decisions ultimately and just get out of those karmic loops and knots that if they’re really depleted in The Prana you know and they’re just all the whatever pranav they have left is just being sort of sucked out by human energy vampires and buy their own inner you know energetic parasites than there really crippled and and you probably see people who get to get into a healthy tantric Community or a relationship that’s not re-traumatizing and isn’t corrupt then you see people really bought them out of just been amazing before-and-after Transformations and just yeah there these there’s a lot of issues involved in that process where if I got really want to be funneling folks to your work so that they can let say have more skills and tools to not over over identify with or bond with her project things on people who are playing a more healer surrogate kind of role and you know that’s that’s a whole a whole can of worms so any do you have any thoughts or vice around kind of energetic sovereignty and how you build that how do you help a person build that up so that they are capable of being in other people’s energy and getting sort of a taste of that nurturing nectar but not getting addicted to it and falling into another trap opposition and Power boy and I are at your I think you’re very wise track to think of having a community of healers that work together and you know or maybe accountability and stuff but yeah power power oh boy you can have all kinds of rhetoric we’ve been around Racine where people we’ve seen people get up and give a lecture and talk about how humble they are the whole time and really go on and talk about how amazingly humble they are they are so humble that you know on a very famous preacher invited him on his private jet and it was like what I was looking at 4 to get a Christian but you could hear it from anybody and I need any and deficient used and so just because someone’s using a language and has sort of the tone and sort of has that demeanor really trust your gut feeling because some of the most lugubrious you knows live people can cause such damage and be really drunk on Power and Drunk on Power can be being so humble that you know I only need a bowl of rice today and I want to tell the world I only try so I live off of are you know it’s Wednesday you know when it is so slippery sing it really is another thing that is that’s really important and I think doesn’t get talked about enough and I’m going to use it therapy word but I think it’s super important for anybody who position themselves as any kind of authority is countertransference and I think that too few people who are in the role of being teachers healers whatever doing of self-examination look closely enough of what their motives are what their agendas are what they’re projecting onto the person they’re working with what you know how their ego is being fed and all of this and I think it’s it’s just majorly important for people to do that and you know what you were talking about before about community and accountability is one way to keep sad you know in the in the Forefront but it’s super important because I think the people frequently get re-traumatized because the person who’s been entrusted with their well-being isn’t self-aware enough we don’t we really there is certain areas we do not go as deep as some of these incredible. Dekhini healers you know go really into some deep hugely powerful I I personally don’t feel strong enough and rude enough to go to certain ducks with people on my work with people who are good with people are not so good we’re grounded a not so grounded and I decided early on that I really didn’t feel that I could handle the doing the Hands-On work that it wasn’t my where my skills were that I could be more effectual as as a teacher and a guy I think that those issues of transference and countertransference can still show up but they’re a little bit easier to manage and and I can feel that I’m clear and clean is a row that I’ve chosen do you feel like some of that the problematic the Tendencies just have also to do with the murkiness in the liabilities involved in the end of the doctor patient therapist patient sort of from the financial Dynamic and that expectation of certain results based on certain payment method plans and it’s it’s it’s it’s hard to fit this kind of stuff into that’s why it’s been so taboo for so long in the western clinical you know world right it’s it it’s the slipperiest of slopes and see how do you the money has nothing to do with it I mean people can act and you know say hey I’m going to give you a free session and they can still be unbounded so the money I really doesn’t make you found grounded or not snappower okay so what my ideal vision of the world I want to be born back into a hacking my next life you can say is that I would really like they’re four they’re too I like to leave this world knowing that I was helping You instrumental in setting up a sort of a sort of Clinic style way for people to access sexual healing in group settings where there’s a diffusion of power and a rotation of positions of perceivable power and not going in both directions so basically no one no one could it be put on a pedestal and no one could be perceived as being on a pedestal if that pedestal is is in rotation and there’s a sort of flattened hierarchy of you could call and Priests and priestesses or whatever but if we we have a fantasies about how there there were temples where people had work this kind of stuff out and you know for example if a Warriors coming back from Battlefield would get loved on profusely by skilled dakini lovers or lovers and it wouldn’t whatever configurations and then they will be returned to their Villages and and be restored and sort of deal you traumatized so they wouldn’t just come back and be a menace in their communities and you know where seems like we don’t have opportunities like that and the next best thing is just whatever is going on at the local dungeon for a play Party in the king scene in and I don’t want to put that down anyway but I feel like there’s there’s just not as much of a developed it’s tell me if I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like there’s as much of it as a developed kind of Fellowship around tantric communal play space that’s really intention to for healing and nurturing there’s just not as much of that infrastructure culturally as areas within the can-can BDSM world and I’m wondering if you’ve encountered kind of fun any Collective type resources whether it’s through Meetup sore or people just operating you know on a mailing list that are there living room or you know it’s absolutely not going to happen tomorrow at the YMCA they’re not going to have a contra de you know but but so we have to build and that you know that that was the young men and women’s Christian Association so there is a young man and woman’s Tantra Association where you go and you learn stuff and you’re at you know you get to practice Sexual Health and Fitness and Wellness and your supported and it’s affordable and mean and it’s just an institution or just visit I really want you to create this could and then I really want to attend this could be my trip but I really think one thing one way of keeping power and check is to do it as soon as low-cost or no-cost as possible so One Vision I have recently was just you know if you was just getting together with anybody who’s the first in many different healing modalities and have it be a healing Circle for healers but not like you to cover the cost of a room rental but beyond that no one’s pocketing any cash know once you know and then you get to draw cards and have an individual healing session with pure who does another modality that I think could really flush out everyone’s skillset and heal the Healer right put it up there and see if it goes viral see if people want to create just tell people how to create it in their community and see if see if people take bite and start doing it is the singer healers without healers become dead Healers so what are the things that we’ve always been about is Building Bridges among different communities so we we’ve done a lot of stuff with tank communities on swinging communities in finding the places where these things overlap big the kind of ghettoizing that that tends to happen in a lot of these movements is not productive and it’s much wiping much more worthwhile to look for places of of commonality so tatra and King you know there’s a lot of commonality I think that that’s something that we didn’t really understand until we started going to we’re so scared oh my God who is wow oh you know cuz they’re highly focused highly intentional energetic exchange is very you know each state staying there assistance suspended in a long periods of time you know it really changes but you know that there are again I’m going to go back to this efficient deficient you know I mean you can find people doing really bad Tantra I’m so I mean just cuz that you’re modality doesn’t mean you’re free of having bad sex so well well thank you so much we’re definitely yeah we’ve covered a lot of stuff and if you have do you have a few more minutes to take a few more questions and then we’ll call it a day teachers URL cuz I really wonder if people www. John Mumford it’s j o n n Mumford consult. Com consult singular so John Mumford consult. Com appreciate the pain that tribution are for sure it’s great so I’m just going to take a couple of breaths and kind of drinking what we covered in yeah I feeling like the big question for me and kind of overarching question for all this is is the I think the real the real gem or the real the core personal development peace that I I feel you owe are really a Guiding Light for and I just want to see if we’re if we’re speaking the same language about it it’s just this this hope that an individual who who is Ben Le say as long as as long as the Disney Classics are shaping the minds of every child you know we’re basically on I’m doing a deep conditioning the prince and princess fantasy of love and romance which is I will kill myself if you fail me in any way shape or form so it’s a constant hostage situation in every buffered by both so I would say there’s self-love there’s the love being connected to Nature there’s the love of being connected to the Divine and then if those three cylinders are functioning properly not even to mention all of that deep tissue chakra energetics and breathing stuff but just you know you spend time in nature you have a spiritual practice you don’t hate yourself and don’t feel internally depleted so then you can go out into the dating world and an in and instantly just people with lower vibrational Tendencies what kind of bounced off and then you can not be so you basically be immune to two unhealthy forms of codependency and that to me is like the the most beautiful transformative thing to witness about getting someone through a bunch of solo Township before getting them into you know I mean I got to eat the rice paragus before they get to eat the ice cream which is you know having time for a relationship or being in a group timeshare Pooja or something that’s more risky and you would want to have built at internal Court those pillars of of love and can and that’s kind of my my little micro thesis about about all this preparing to me no kind of the internal preparation to have more designer relationships do you all have a thoughts on what what what the solo times for the rigor of solo Township why it’s necessary and what you recommend for that to just be the preliminary for exploring these these non-disney well maybe Disney will do something like this is with yourself and to really relate yourself as a beloved and really nurture yourself and seek to fortify yourself sick to be in awe and wonder of yourself you know you can only spend so much time with someone else 32 x with yourself and sometimes a majority of your sex is with yourself too how to get completely free of all the baggage I mean we we live in a world where we’re bombarded with the baggage all the time just being in our culture right now is constantly traumatizing so I think that for me the purpose of the inner work is to develop self-awareness to know that you know we we to know what we’re carrying and to be less controlled by it you know it in some of the Buddhist Meditation they talk about noticing the gap and that doesn’t mean we don’t have the feeling but we we can notice the gap between the ceiling in the action and maybe choose differently so it’s a it’s a really slow process sometimes it’s three steps forward and four back and then it’ll be five forward and two back that it sits on going and I think it’s it’s really important to to keep that self-awareness the law you know throughout and and that’s it’s only with that but then we can then we can be in a relationship and aware of others awesome do you have any you just tips for the individual who feels like they they want to just all that rebound and the withdrawal symptoms of relationship it’s it’s it’s hard to get people to take the leap of faith to really do the inner work if they haven’t had a breakthrough yet so you know if you have any tips for people that might be listening while I want to access all this stuff but it’s it will be easier just to go and throw myself throw myself to the first take her at the singles bar our senior practice is our favorite relationship practice is eye gazing and ideas with yourself in the mirror and seal that deep reverence really don’t just look at yourself as an object we I think often objectify ourselves when we look at ourselves in the mirror really like look at yourself and be present with yourself it that’s it’s incredible and really just three to five minutes a day and people will feel change what you’re saying is super super important that I don’t know that I have a wise answer to it but we are conditioned so much to feel that we only have value to the extent that were in a relationship with another person people who choose to be single in our society are still really stigmatized there still the assumption that if you’re single it’s either because there’s something wrong with you you or you just haven’t found the right person yet and I think that it’s really really important for people to not to to step off that Marygrove Merry-Go-Round for a while to feel that if they’re in a relationship that ends that now I’ve got some time to get to know myself and I don’t have to jump right back onto the Merry-Go-Round very very hard thing to do I have a good friend who just passed away unfortunately but he was so much in this and he he fall in love with a new person every 4 or 5 months and you know be ready to sort of spend his life with them and they were moving into moving out moving in and moving be by yourself for a while and he couldn’t do it and I think that’s that’s true for a lot of people on and so then why do I have no wisdom because I just don’t know if you’re so caught up in that model and you can’t just take a breath and take a pause and say I’m going to take the time and be alone and and love the Solitude tapping into some deep love for yourself and really you know presents with yourself and being content you might not ever feel be able to find it with someone else I mean that that’s the attitude right you can’t love someone else until you fully love yourself and it did it becomes a platitude but there really is real a real part to it I mean serious stuff so it’s making me think that there could be a a new paradigm for a singles bar where you’re there to celebrate being single and he has to stay single where I’m going to have sex without the expectation that it’s got to mean I mean I think that it’s like we still you know that premarital sex thing I mentioned at the beginning we still I think are carrying that idea that sex has got it mean something more than just two people getting together to enjoy each other and that’s pretty wonderful meeting I mean Rockville over something like that out there trying to revalue the one-night stand or hookup culture there’s a misfit it leads to you know people feeling despondent devalued and in the in the studies are not proven that to be true there there are just as many people to feel a burst of energy and increasing self-esteem more Connection in the world and they don’t you know in that that one night stand that hook up was profound longevity doesn’t equal quality you know I’m saying it’s a it’s an allergy to have you ever heard of a term called bloatware it’s it’s it’s not like spyware or malware but would say you’re downloading something in you you think you’re only getting that program and then if you don’t check check the custom install they automatically inserts like five other programs in that hijack your browser in your search bar and all his stuff they call it bloatware and I feel like that’s that’s what happening when people believe that if you have sex with someone you also have to there’s an unspoken contract that now you owe them some chunk of your life and it’s so yeah it’s it’s it’s it’s a weird form of non-consent to have expectations that aren’t clearly laid out but alcoholism well but I agree totally yeah that’s that says it will be beautiful to have safe experimental environments early just list that stigma so people could stay kind of yeah I think this is all moving in in in in that that that general direction where if if less and less baggage coming in more and more gender fluidity and that helps people you know if your if you enjoy sex with both or or both genders and Beyond then it’s hard to pigeonhole one person is expecting them to give you everything and you know if you if it’s already kind of out-of-the-box you you know that you can never be in anyone’s everything because you you know you that they would desire more and that’s okay that’s kind of a nice buffer on that proprietary kind of clothes thinking too so a lot of material for people to follow up with and if you want to talk about your horizon what you might have coming up and certainly how people can connect and and and get your website info and all that good stuff getting contacts www Tantra Porsche m.com Emma’s and marks of tundra pm.com we started doing Skype sessions wish we can be everywhere where everybody wants to learn but I’m in we also work with couples and more songs privately in the New York metro area Denver at the conference in April doing the keynote there and teaching workshop and will be in Washington DC for a Sex Therapy you at the end of April and a sect Cee program and certification program and we’re going to be hanging out with you when you get your your time to do the people you know yes cool yeah cuz it is kind of a country club it’s in the it’s in more of a country club kind of template right now but it definitely can can trickle down and they’ll be time for philanthropy and I will thank you to so much for again your infinite Glory I’m a big fan and that you know I say when I start to slow down to the point of of written text and not just million podcasts and million windows open then I will be catching up on your backlog of of your books and in the meantime I I definitely just to send good prayers and and lots of Hope and I love your way so keep rocking it take care bye-bye you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temples that provide ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episode if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. 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