In this episode I’m blessed to be able to explore the great works of Triambika Ma Vive and her masterful synthesis of neo and classical tantra. We discuss how to translate the esoteric principles of ancient tantra into modern cross-cultural interfaith language, theory and practice.
“Playboy TV’s #1 Tantric Expert”
Triambika is an internationally recognized seminar leader, professional sex and conscious intimacy coach and the founder of The Ecstatic Awareness Institute.
She has guided thousands of men and women to empower their sexuality, by helping them to release shame, gain confidence, learn to have extraordinary sex, experience exceptional stamina and create healthier relationships.
Her powerful work with singles and couples have been featured on the Playboy channel, Personal Life Media, Source Tantra, Gilad Creative Media and as the lead host and emcee for the International Sex and Consciousness Conferences.
Triambika brings her depth, intuition, passion and magnetism to her work. Harnessing her extensive training and practice with the time-honored tradition of Tantra, human sexuality, non-dual spirituality, masculine and feminine dynamics, NLP, and body-based modalities including yogic therapy and bodywork, she helps her clients to reach authentic sexual freedom and to form fulfilling relationships that support the highest expression of who they are.
Based in Southern California, Triambika works globally guiding men and women everyday to lead a more empowered and authentic sexual life.
Being a seasoned practitioner and educator of sacred sexuality, Triambika also offers practitioner trainings for sexual healers and women’s sensual empowerment courses throughout the United States, Australia and Europe.
Guided by her resolute purpose to provide intelligent, accessible and unforgettable education, she is enthusiastically committed to coaching with compassion, fun and individualized attention.
Please visit her website at:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 83 I am doing an interview here with tree ambika mavi and she is Playboy TV’s number-one tantric expert which definitely has caught my attention among other things and intimacy coach and founder of the ecstatic awareness Institute and is really one of the world’s greatest living country code facilitators and and healers that I’ve become aware of and we weave briefly cross paths in different circles and I’m really excited now it’s Grandma cat have you as a guest and if you would be so kind just kind of give us your your life story how you got on this path of of Tantra and beyond happy to be here right now with you and getting to chat together my life story where to begin you know this path yeah I could say where it started as far as you know when I first started hearing about Tantra but I think it’s valuable to just go a little bit further back and say that I grew up with Catholic parents of a Colombian upbringing so Latin American upbringing and and Catholic religion and so there was a lot of Shame and there was a lot of stuff around sexuality and do you know you just really a lot of confusion and being a spiritual person and as I have always been it was this journey to try to find myself and my spirituality and yet not see myself as a slut or a hore which is a lot of wet you know that the extra tradition would have you think I’ll when you also want to be a sexual being so the idea of spirituality and sexuality in the same sentence was completely unheard of for me so I went forward in the world having to cope with that and there was some difficulty for me around that and being a very sexual being I wanted to explore I wanted to find out more about what was out there in this life and as soon as I became old enough I began to explore in the world of of sex work but not not having sex but more so it was a it was a roll of doing a lingerie modeling and I’ll say lingerie modeling and quotes it was kind of like a private Peep Show and and you know on the men were allowed to make themselves as comfortable as they wanted in the room and you know where they’re at their I am and and this computer lingerie and there’s like a chair with a box of tissues in a bottle of Jergens what kind of what kind of establishment will see how to say the name of course but I’m just curious how this was facilitated as a business model is like an establishment or if this was something you did before Craigslist and Backpage and all that well well before Craigslist and Backpage and probably before I even heard of the internet at that stage I was only 18 19 and I I thought it was sort of like a lingerie store a front for lingerie store that kind of had maybe six to eight pieces of really cheap lingerie hanging in the front and the guys can come and choose their model and there be about two or three of us working at any time and then we go and you’ll have a sort of a private keep show and you know I learned a lot during those years and I and I learned that I could make a lot of money and that was fun but I also had to learn a lot about my boundaries which I didn’t realize I had until only after they already been crossed so I know I went through a lot of trial and error in that phase and not knowing myself fully yet not knowing what my boundaries were and through being in a scene where people wanted to take advantage of me I just had to kind of get through that and I found myself at a crossroad where I was I’d made a lot of money and I’d saved a lot of money and I wanted to get out of the business and I was really struggling with with myself with my identity I have a lot of shame I felt I’m very insecure so a lot of of those internal turmoil that happened when when you don’t know yourself and your exploring sexually and a lot of things are happening very quickly so I so I went off on a spiritual journey to India and that was the first time I’d heard the word Tantra and in that in that time I learned that I had all these issues you know you don’t always know that you’ve got all the stuff going on so I realize why I’ve got a lot of issues and I have a lot to heal and the word Tantra just rang so loud and true for me it was it was just an instant connection that I had to the word and I said I got to know what that is I got to follow that path so the following year I I moved from Miami to California and I started sneaking out teachers and seeking out workshops and books and whatever I can get my hands on and from there I began and I found teachers and I found some amazing people along my path and I began to receive healing work and so as I started to receive Tantra healing work on myself from trained practitioners trained Dhaka Zen dakinis I began to release immense amounts of grief and shame and fear in my body and it was being immediately replaced with love and self-acceptance and appreciation for who I am and I started to transform and it was in it happened relatively quickly I started to see the changes and that just that was it I just never look back and I I just knew right away this is my path so having been in the world of sexuality from the very beginning and early as I was legal I you know it was it was a natural transition to go from a very unconscious sexual scene to healing myself and going more towards conscious awake and sexuality and it just made all the difference for me and all the difference in my relationships and and just how I progressed in the world awesome do you want to talk about how you are you’ve sort of found a career path through all that that is led to your rising up to instructor kind of leader facilitator coach all that good stuff will I went ahead and started to train pretty early on and started to take zucchini training the Tantra teacher trainings of Charles me or as one of my dear beloved friends and teachers and you know very very close like family to me so he he was instrumental for me and and several other teachers and I and so my career in this path again early and in over the years it took many forms and so I think that how it progresses that because I started at an early age and I’ve been involved in the work for so long naturally I built a name for myself and I also started started to a create a distinction between what was out there for a little people who were doing different modalities of sex work versus doing more sexual healing work and really making a name for myself in that way and that there is a difference and and there’s nothing wrong with either one of them but that there is something transformative that can happen and even you know in the face of pleasure right that it can be such a powerful transformative experience when when it’s done with the right amount of presents so after several years and the field I went ahead and studied with a Groove for about 12 years on I took initiation into a kashmiri tantric lineage and that was I think we’re thing started at transform because I I started integrating more of the classical traditional teachings of Tantra and a gain a lot of respect in the community for for having done that and and and study done in that in-depth way yeah and I and then the next big piece for me was was with with the Sedona Temple and the International School of Temple art where we began teaching training in spiritual sexual shamanic experiences and and now that training is being taught all over the world so I was one of the founding members of that and yeah it’s just been an amazing journey and I continue to coach and work with people one-on-one and I just I love what I do and I continue to train also a practitioners and that’s been another big pieces it’s raining men and women who want to do this workout in the world and I just I love all of it well it’s also so there’s definitely a lot of really deep material there that as far as you’re having that rich culturally authentic experience training and also that so it’s like you’ve become the synthesis of Neo Tantra and classical Tantra and that is a really exciting and Powerful combination because you probably have a great vantage point to kind of shed light on the whole Spectrum so yeah I’m really excited to to explore that a bit I’m I guess I’m curious how was your how did Playboy channel discover you or how did you get pitched her how did that that bridge get across I’m curious and I received an email from from Scout and one afternoon and they wanted to bring me in to do an episode 4 one of their swingers shows called swing and and then they brought me in again and is it just kind of went from there or so it was really just they went out searching for someone just like me and they they were there having a hard time finding it because it’s that kind of combination between you know a lot of people do Tantra and it’s a modality of sex work which is great and it’s awesome and I and I love that there’s people that are you don’t taunt Rica’s and doing sex work and what they were looking for though is a little bit more of the educational aspect and somebody that they can you don’t bring in to really teach and coach and so that’s what I am awesome so yeah it would you would you be okay with talking a bit about your experience that the traditional lineage Based training and she had just kind of maybe start with an overview and then we can zoom in here and there sure well I won’t mention his name because I know that you wouldn’t want me to do that but I will say that walking the guru to disciple path is really something else I something it’s it’s definitely for certain individuals who want that I personally don’t think I knew what I was getting myself into but I’m glad that I did and I’m glad that I’m not there anymore the traditional path of Tantra absolutely love it’s more just the dynamic between That Grew disciple it’s a little bit condescending and manipulative in some in some cases not in every case but for some people but the but the traditional teachings of Tantra are are so Adept and so powerful and so beautiful know anybody who wants to study that it’s you know it’s really very very deep but the whole path of life that is always the whole psychology it’s an entire path of Awakening from it from the way that you eat to the way that you think to you know something from what you do at the start of the day to the end of the day and then of course from the way we make love it’s everything is included so it’s you know it’s very powerful to live your life that way what would you say are some of the obviously I just I feel like the more I study at the less I can Define it the best I can explain it and it itches it gets even more elusive it’s so vast and so I’m curious if what some of the maybe just bullet points of what you feel like you were really blessed to have been able to experience it in and that one-on-one grew disciple training that people who are on a weekend retreat or certificate you know whatever the Neo Tantra packages to to get you out of your you no work week and normal mindset and into a a deep training what would you say are some of the things that that you know we will be missing out on not having the experience you had that are some of the positive things and then I’m sure we’ll figure out some of the negative ones too well I guess there’s a couple ways that I can answer that you know some of the some of the really positive aspects is you know to understand yourself as something much broader and bigger than the limited ideas that we have of who we think we are and to begin to actually have practices and tools and ideologies to begin to see do yourself in a much broader context and so when I when I can see myself as as Shiva as you know primordial Consciousness inkarnate I begin to experience the world differently right I begin to live into the world with less fear with less fear of death with less concerned about the minutiae and assertive come into the world with them from a more expanded stay and so that that’s something really valuable because you know we all can get caught up and in the end the little things right in the little things that that pisses off or noises and you know like that go ahead yeah that was just a green definitely I think a lot of people are bypassing maybe now in the in the so-called I don’t really know Nick neotantra is is kind of just as nebulous but it seems I guess one of the critiques that I would have and I I feel like India came to me I didn’t go to India at Lake came to me through Priestess initiatrix has waves of them coming in and really synchronistic ways and that doesn’t mean I don’t have a want to make a pilgrimage absolutely but I feel like what like the way I would like to Define Tantra for the mod for the modern era is it is a practice of goddess worship and if that’s missing then maybe it’s a dangerous path of Tantra that somehow forgot to put the Davey Sedona in the mix and I’m wondering if if you feel like that sort of the spiritual bypass of just the mechanical sexual breathing and you know the real practical impact are the practices that enhance your sex and love life and connection that’s all great but do you feel like you were able to kind of get more of a deeper connection to the cosmology in the mythology and took formulated to more clear question do you think people are missing out on that aspect a lot and and are you able to kind of translate and deliver some of that since you have had that sauce after deeper immersion training well that’s a great question and here’s what I think I think you are people missing out you know I don’t think that everybody is cut out for that depth of teaching I don’t think that those teachings are necessarily meant for everybody that there is something about Tantra that they caught the Open Secret where you know it’s open anybody can come and read the stuff but unless you unless you’ve got the eyes to see and ears to hear and really get it it’s might not be meant for you and not everybody’s interested in that depth of thought or that depth of Mantra and you know yantra studies and you’re all the Deep Sanskrit terminology like not everybody wants. So are they missing out well you know it’s something ignorance is bliss and so that’s okay for them is the world of Neo Tantra missing something sometimes sometimes in some cases it is and then definitely I aim to be that bridge and I also think that it’s for whom and when like if there’s if there’s a person who ready and interested in needs that teaching those teachings then I’m all too happy to deliver that and when a person isn’t able to receive that it’s sort of like how can I get around the fancy terminology to sort of present this in a way that they can really receive it and I think that that’s something that that the the classical Tantra did support me and a lot is is is broadening my perspective and then now what using my own tools to deliver that to any audience without it being too weird or fluffy or foreign practice of beholding whether it’s your consort or your wife for your ass you know your spouse of your concert or Temple dancer whatever the configuration is that that sort of quintessential divining of the Beloved as the god or the goddess or a combination thereof do you have you found a way to kind of translate horor deliver that experience without breaking people’s religious dogmas to giving him too much of a right turn you know when they’re not ready I just say one quick thing is that speaking to a client just yesterday who was wanting to introduce his very very religious Christian girlfriend into the path of Tantra and I got really excited because I think this is perfect because she’s already concerned about living in sin and so this would be a way for her to reconcile that part of her that says hey it’s okay that we’re having sex even though we’re not married and you know just because we can call in a greater power a higher power and just translate it so that it works for her so I think I think that if somebody is very closed off and in their in their on their religious path are not going to be able to receive any of it but I do think that there is a place for it in numerous spiritual just traditions because of the fact that when you really dig deep the sex aspect in Tantra is given great regard because of the spiritual element right it’s not just like we’re not all hedonist trying to find cool new ways to get off it’s it’s it’s all about creating deeper and deeper and higher and higher state of the union with the Divine so for some I think that I’ve actually been thinking about that a lot because I’ve been called to do the same thing and it in in a variety of different formats to try to upgrade the spiritual Technologies as it’s so interesting I guess what’s happening with with porn and with really thin BDSM and Fifty Shades of Grey there’s this massive explosion of I would call maybe sexual freedom I don’t I don’t like I wouldn’t call it Liberation cuz that has a deeper kind of station for me but there’s a new level of Freedom that I feel is to be perilous without wisdom tradition guidance and that’s why Tantra is got a lot of catching up to do to the to those other even if you look on Google Trends and you see the search frequency of Tantra versus the other I’ll be I’ll be honest and respectful and say that can be just as much as a form of those are sexual art forms and you know the pouring is a sexual art form genre but definitely as the the shackles of really repressive monotheistic I don’t you know all the religions that are repressing sexuality Resort of being bucked off by this mess massive high-speed internet delivery system and so there’s like a need for these churchgoers who are scrambling in the face of these menaces to their you know they’re there their ways really it’s going to take the work of what you’re doing and other people who are able to kind of say okay well now that the cat is out of the bag how are we going to maybe translate the Kundalini has the Holy Ghost you know and if they don’t want to hear about the serpent you know maybe they’ll they’ll be that the Holy Ghost can work for him do you have you any of that time Bridge Crossing sort of cultural healing stuff in my private work so right I haven’t I haven’t made it a point to preach about it in a larger way I know that Sean Roop has actually taught in churches which I think is fantastic I have made less the point of it all though it would be it would be fun but in my in my private work when people come to see me I definitely I asked about their their religious spiritual background so that I’m prepared and and how it went to deliver what I want to say and yeah I love I love what you just added there about the the Kundalini being the Holy Spirit and it is yeah that’s a lot of potential to too kind of transcend the old language around the Stephen Odell paradigm yes so do you want to talk maybe some more about you or I had a I had a curiosity definitely about you know we could probably go do a series of podcast about this very deep esoteric material and in the mystical and mythological aspects really I’m at like someone just recently said yet is witchcraft a that that kind of you know does it for me to to approach it with that level of you no respect and reverence and you know what is that mean if we think of it that way obviously that would scare off some of the Christian so it wouldn’t be conducive to help in that discourse but so yeah I was going to say I’m curious how the power broker is in The Gatekeepers of the mass media but say the Playboy Enterprise did they give you space to explore that more esoteric esoteric elements or do they ask you to reel it in and you know I’m curious if they have any yeah well concerns or I can remember the day going to their Studios in Hollywood and asking about that very thing you know how to do you want me to go pretty clear that this was meant to be for the larger masses that this wasn’t meant to be a teaching on the esoteric aspects of Tantra so and one of my superpowers I think is to be able to convert myself not convert myself but you know just sort of be able to be adaptable and and and speak to my audience and meet them where they’re at so I did keep it a little bit later I kept it still connecting at the Heart level and very much connecting you know sexually essentially but with presents and and and deep connection that we kept it there we did not go into the deeper stuff even though if you look at what I’m doing in the filming’s I am creating a Puja experience and so they don’t know they don’t know that they’re there there’s roots of that in an early Tantra and and and how that all came to be but they don’t need to know that they’re having a good time and then the Aryans the nuts and that’s what was important at that time that’s wonderful yeah I feel like that’s that is the the the sign of a of a master if you can really deliver the experience without having to convert anyone or push their boundaries too far and they just you know can be Believers in this in the spiritual technology Without Really any rhetoric or any you know any of the more controversial controversial apologies work you know so we really don’t know all that background if you really sit with another person in this way you feel different you feel a connection and and that opens up new avenues of emotion in Awakening in your body that weren’t there before you know when you when it was just sort of like here let me just broke you in the dark instead let’s turn the lights on and I should be with one another you can’t deny what happens there as long as your present right it is yet very if it for the for the Skeptics and the atheist and all that it’s just electrical engineering and even the symbols are very there schematics in a lot of the configurations the yogic scriptures and it was stration sits you know something that reads like stereo instructions sometimes you know yeah so actually something you mentioned there it makes me wonder I feel like a good way to tell always introduce the chakra system to people who are maybe never heard of it or only if seen you know hippies with banners hanging out of their tents or whatever but at the everybody has an experience of their heart chakra so do you kind of start there if you if you when you initiate people into Brett breathing into or doing the bija mantras or kind of chakra introductory orientation work do you kind of start there and yeah well can you talk about that yet how do you how do you teach the chakras if you don’t mind I mean whatever extent you you would you care to share it’s always fun one of the fun of the heart it’s it’s always where I began I view the heart in the heart chakra as an alchemical chalice where all transformation can take place so when we begin there any relationship that we have to our sexuality to our power to our survival to our intuition to my voice in the world all of it gets gets transformed when we bring it through the heart and then you can just look to see how anything that you’re grappling with in life just bring it into your heart for a moment I just sit with it there and then just see what happens but that’s always where I begin and as far as I got an education on on chakras again you know I’m I’m working with a lot of different types of people and sometimes I have people that literally want to understand contract from A to Z and and sometimes I have a people that are really just trying to grow and heal and don’t don’t care so much for the deeper philosophy but know that there’s something in this for them so again for whom and when and when there is a person who who needs touch needs healing who needs to be seen in this light we work with the specific chakras that he or she needs to work on right so often times that if the Power Center The Heart the sex Center in over some people obviously that first chakra and as needed I’ll go at go through and explain it but more important than me explaining it is them feeling an activation of it Brian said I could happen with just like he words coming in at Key moments when they’re open when the portal is open and you know I come in with keywords that pertain to that cha Crush they don’t need to know that the color orange or yellow or that it’s this particular geometrical shape they need to know that right now their power is being activated and and we are calling that in there in a very potent way in other cases I find the chakras fascinating I love talking about that little ins and outs and specific mysteries of all the chakras it’s fascinating to me it’s total like braingasm material yeah yeah so in the right setting and that’s what I’ll do cool yeah I kind of feel like when I have to explain it to people who maybe you’re just skeptical in general or like yeah whatever we will be able to stay well imagine that your you know your physical body has a series of ink cartridges that print you out and they can malfunction and stopped working and then they can distort your sort of damage that you gave yourself the physical print out and so you want to optimize that and that seems to work as it’s kind of in a broader way that these seven centers where energy concentrates you can even see it as where you’re like nervous system will come together and concentrate it is the all the way that we receive and perceive the world so both how we receive you know these different functions and also you know how how we perceive that being acting out in the world and in that you know we are either perceiving the world for through these different modes you know in a very a contracted way and sometimes we’re much more open-minded about it or open-hearted you know it just kind of you know giving giving birth examples that people can relate to I think is is probably the most valuable so if you don’t mind I’d like to talk a bit about your perspectives and experiences with what is kind of sort of it’s a term now it’s like a modern term Sexual Healing like you could say a sexual healing it’s actually a veritable almost Medical Practice in with the Certified Six electrical bodyworkers training it’s I think that’s probably the most sort of codified that that a Hands-On sacred spot massage Ewing is is sort of been in in modern I guess medical legalized if you will but I’m really curious I’ve had this question in the in the back of my mind for a while where is the I’m not I’m not What’s the Word a fundamentalist when it comes to the scriptures there’s some really weird stuff and some of the scriptures so I definitely don’t want to have to sort of validate most of it was most of it has been traditionally village-based verbal pre-vedic pre civilized indigenous Shamanism of I would call bastardized patriarchal you know elitist extraction and then you have codification and in the in the scriptures so it’s it’s gets murky to say what it what is or isn’t authentic or or can be traced back to some cite citation in a document but I’m curious if in your training you’re probably one of the most qualified to answer this question is where does the sacred spot massage training or certain the discovery of that is there is there some natural history of that in the Indian traditions of Tantra that you’re aware of or is it you know I’m so curious to know what you want cuz I think we just kind of adapted we adapted and then we just sort of maybe don’t understand the the deeper origins or or just sort of get some what’s the word I guess it’s too taken for granted in modern Neo Tantra that this is part of Tantra but I’m super curious if you would know where you would go to actually study at traditionally or if there’s scriptures about it you know any of the Davey kind of hymns and stuff so you could go on and on about the Oni and all I mean exhausted leave it like it’s a beautiful discourse on the only and all of its magic and all this mystery so I’m sure there’s some references there but anyway scripture speaking I have yet to come across something specific about the secret spot from a traditional standpoint it’s it’s if it’s written it’s written in a serving in a mysterious way and what I know is that the term sacred spot it was coined by Charles Muir om some 3540 years ago it was taught to him that the practice without it being called secrets about the practice itself with was taught to him by a bee and a tantric practitioner and I’m saying this was like 30 maybe 45 years ago now at the stage for him so so where it that particular practice originated from I can’t tell you exactly but what I can tell you is that when you really look at it and you look at what’s happening in the body and where where were actually referring to it’s not just the G-Spot it’s not just that one little spot on the body it’s more of a secret area and it went to when you touch into that area in a man or a woman inside the body it gives you access I could deny it gives you access to the energy of all of the chakras and all of the cellular memory and the emotional content in that space and if you look at how the channels of eat. And peeing alot and so shall not that the three Central Channel’s come together and they sort of intersect at each of the chakras their their last point where they intersect is there or down there close to the base of the spine and so we’re kind of moving energy and connecting and playing in that area where all of the channels merge and we’re basically all of the chakras merge because each of the chakras are touched by these channels I hope that didn’t sound too totally far-out there in all this I mean I’m absent totally seeing all this like as if you were you’ve got you know a video projector up in this is a you know UPS exactly what I’m PowerPoint hear a lot of modalities that are popular today you know somewhere along the way someone figured this out and it got invented I don’t think that that that it’s any less powerful whether or not it came from the scriptures I really haven’t seen it but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some type of mention of it of course it wouldn’t have been called The Sacred spot it probably was referring more to Yoni Puja and and some other type of internal practice now when I when I worked with my Google make my spiritual teacher and I bet that there are a lot like in Chinese medicine solutely marma points along the outside and the inside of the body and so somewhere in all of this tradition it was figured out that when you go in and start activating these points or even on the body right that that you can you can access a lot of different types of energy in the body so so if I can sort of yeah process that a bit it it sounds like if there was ever a president within classical Tantra to do the Yoni Puja as a devotional ritual of oil massage of some kind whatever was available maybe sesame oil or I’m not sure if you would know that I would say but I don’t see if we wanted to do like a historical reenactment of the birth of you know this tradition of veneration of the genitals as the one of light in the gates to heaven I mean the really show people National Geographic or something maybe it’s another another you no experience of media like a National Geographic kind of experience where this is the real deep heart stuff but I guess my question is so you would if it during a Yoni Puja you would obviously be accessing the so-called Grafenberg Spot or whatever you know the goddess spot is a better way to put it but it wasn’t the sort of Silver Bullet kind of medical prescribe saying like oh you need to go get this G-spot release massage experience have been gone like you go to the temple and you know be a part of some ritual that would be open to initiate soar through some process you would gain access or your your lover would be trained I mean can you could you is it possible to walk through what it would be Circa you know 1000cc going into a tantric Temple and being like hey I heard about this food to thing like where the level of devotion so the the devotional aspic going back to what you started with earlier about you know Debbie worship goddess worship that the at the Yoni and lingam are both this is the consecrating force of the universe right this is where we come together in our too masculine feminine polarities and unite and this creates life and that the entire universe is like a gigantic erotic active love hence we are created this is whole universe so I think that’s where it started begins as is with a larger understanding of of the Oni and the lingam as creators of life and and so maybe a little bit further apart from the individuals Yoni but more so from this or the cosmic sense I think that as as you go in to to worship and individual Yoni the inside of the woman’s body generally in the tradition from the from all of everything that I’ve read everything that I’ve learned and understood and and things that have been performed on me that it was not actually accessed on the inside that’s the mystery right that’s the Beautiful Mystery of the universe that’s the mystery of like what a woman’s body does so as far as I know it and I’m just being really really honest here what I’ve read in the things that I experience at that traditional level we’re less about going on the inside and more about the honoring and devotional aspect on the outside and that’s why I think that somewhere along the way probably probably pass the time of whatever was written about was where the inside of the body started to get incorporated as a means for for healing but here’s the same the lingam Yoni connected was on the inside so so you know what I mean you know what I mean so it’s like in a way your were accessing the mystery mine that yeah they actually did it just hit me so crystal clear right now we are so wounded and detached and not that every active sexual love has to involve and inserted object that’s a human lingam or just the idea that you can’t have sex with your doctor even if the doctor is trying to heal sexually or something that’s the reason I had to be really divorced from that Union is that we live in the modern world that’s hyper regulated so now it’s sort of it sort of like that maybe had to evolve into this clinical finger based process but then there’s there’s benefits from that it’s not like it’s the first time obviously have the entire world history of lesbian sex and all of the foreplay and like the Chinese were very advanced in their deer pillow books you know that it’s wasn’t like it was a history of reaching in there for various desired effects but have that makes a lot of sense that you wouldn’t you wouldn’t have to it wouldn’t be necessary nice way to practice back then it would just be okay partner up and do what you know how to do instinctually in when you going to stop on the wheel now you’re in front of this person and you need to get beyond all of your preconceptions about attraction or who you think you should be with or want to be with and it just has to go because this person is divine in front of you and and and now this is the practice you know you’re going to unite and you know what lesbianism gay people is it was like there was all kinds of sex even then it’s not like everybody was heterosexual and not and not everybody who went to sit with the guru is heterosexual but we understand and Tantra that there is a lock-in key effect that happens when you bring together the lingam in the Yoni so it doesn’t matter your orientation but for that specific practice in that Tradition at that time right now and that time it mattered that there was the lingam and the Oni connecting and that that was that sort of lock and key effect that unlocked the mysteries of the universe and your potential as a Divine being actually something you brought up in that in that bit there I think there is a lot of confusion around how the if I’m not you might be better be probably better pronouncing it then I have I don’t know if I’ve heard it actually spoken but the word my tuna or my through I don’t know if it’s a good position to kind of clarify and you just let me know you go to a Puja and it’s a cross between the preschool patty cake and whatever people were doing back when they were doing the five M’s and transgressive practices and passing around cups of wine so I just actually read in a book recently that the tantric way I believe it’s called is the country way I would like the most descriptive no-nonsense if you know it would take an issue it’s about a year of screening and then the ritual go on for about an hour and a half and they had this many cups of wine that were passed around in a circle and it was like all of the mechanics that I’ve never heard in one place at one time or read about what that ritual actually entailed and they even had sort of like I like a coat of arm or emblem kind of thing with little icons of the five transgressive gems and other stuff so you talked about just now you mentioned just briefly that that hooja of that ritual you would be you would be rotating like clockwork between potential strangers if they’re not they weren’t all strangers and it was to achieve some sort of mystical effective like you’re saying unlocking the universe and having you know he said he’s effects happen so do you want to give you her sort of a bit of share your understanding of what that would it look like it’s just as if you were you were giving it to a production crew so that they could reenact okay production crew I want to see what this look like I really you know but you know it’s interesting because I got it the first place that I go is more at that deeper level of what was the point of this and had a very deep level the point was non-duality was it was to understand that you know nothing was inherently bad that nothing is inherently good here we are using the five items that are completely forbidden to show that hey we can do this inside this ritual and and nobody’s going to burn in hell for doing it and nobody’s going to get brownie points to go to heaven either it’s it’s it’s it’s a non dual experience it’s a Continuum of the hole and so when I guess you know going back to the production level or there have to be some teaching on that and and you know I visualize and an inner circle and Outer Circle and a rotation of those Circle so that you are doing a sort of a mini poodle mini ceremony with each person that you’re with and each one has a meaning and has a connection to a to a different aspect of the ritual until you get to the point where you are now going to go into sexual Union and okay could I still be able to 2nd generation Fusion experience that I’ve had him on as a guest and he is a great perspective by calling the Karate Kid of Tasha in that experience a sequence of offerings and on rings and sort of time gestures that were so that you would go through a rotation numerous times and you would encounter the same person numerous times and it was sort of an Excel around o of of purpose and meaning and emotional depth so is that just to kind of put us in that in the frame a little bit you’re saying you wouldn’t just be like okay everybody strip down and person a on Inner Circle connect with person be on Outer Circle and sexually and then move on to the next would actually be like a sort of spiraling Cujo kind of practice wear multiple different interactions would happen if the oven on sexual nature that would lead up to okay now we’re getting to the end of the the union party absolutely because not all aspects of the ritual were sexual and you look at the the different aspects from what we know there’s you know there’s I’m ingesting a food or of a substance involved there is there there’s various aspects and then of course there’s there’s the devotional pieces and there’s Mantra and there’s meditation Mayo there’s a lot of auspices so here’s the thing is it and I love your question because you know the David Gordon white rights and I think it’s called the kiss of the Oconee that the difference between Neo Tantra and classical Tantra is that Neo Tantra is ritualized sex where classical Tantra is sexualized ritual well that is a big stinky yeah yeah need to be all aspects of it had some sexual component it means that we are doing ritual and inside that ritual to increase the potency or to unite more deeply or more parsley we’re going to add a desexualized aspect all right wow that’s so amazing I really like that yeah that that kind of sums it up a lot of the women I talk to who are country codes or are saying to me been if you have the opportunity to initiate a woman in the time sure you should you should refer her into a coven of tantric sisterhood’s where she can actually get purified of all of the douchebags she’s been fucking in her that you know Daddy Issues on stuff and then if she’s interested after that if she hasn’t totally changed her life path and she still is he not attracted to you then will you know arrange something for the both of you chaperoned you know what I mean that would be the the highest standard of Ethics that I could hold myself to with that you know the spirit of that idea of just like don’t just be harvesting souls and have a real sloppy scummy kind of you know where is a male practitioner or unit initiate women do if they come to it because they want better sex or they have their there they have whatever issues you know what do you think about those problems in general can opens up set up Pandora’s Box really big topic we can go to a lot of directions with it but here’s what I’ll say absolutely when there is a teacher-student relationship there’s always a the power Dynamic and so it’s important for all parties to be aware of that and naturally a student and aspirin would want to experience what a master is really like you know in in the sexual department so when that it would that opportunity is given to them they are probably going to grab at it and say yes I want to go for it how they feel later on is going to be a whole different story and that’s going to potentially either get the teacher and a lot of deep trouble or or make them all better of a teacher you know and end so there’s a lot of different scenarios and a lot to be said about that and I’ve dealt with it in in my circles many many times and you know obviously consent and various other preparations for something like that are important but here’s what I’ll say is that I would not be the woman that I am today and I would not be the t-shirt that I am today if I had not had sexual experiences with my teachers so I am deeply grateful and appreciative of those experiences because they taught me and gave me a reference point for what energy feels like in my body for how to awaken centers in my brain through my orgasm I wouldn’t have had those I would have no idea what that’s like if I hadn’t had those experiences and so I’m very grateful to them do you ever get that fair enough I kind of feel the same way I mean that’s kind of back-and-forth and it’s because you don’t like I’ve been trying to be the the purified feminist sort of shock to Tantra representative with on a tight leash you know at end as I pursue this cuz I’ve seen the people go through you decades if those pitfalls and I’d certainly you know standing on the backs of giants myself and using opportunities like this intelligently to get the best best practices from people further down the path I am so it was someone who said to me yeah you do women need to initiate Each Other Well what if what if they don’t want to but if they don’t want that. I mean so like what do I do so with that sort of comedy and see at Regal piece set up I’m I’m curious would you let say to you were in a situation where you have like you were Rolodex of masterful tantric men who you have either engaged with yourself or who have good reviews or whatever within your circle they’re sort of trust Trustees of the technology and you were to be a say oh my God I’m starting to sound like a a romance novel hear something but you actually are the Priestess who you know the the the new generation of initiates godino looks up to you to be able to have access but two of basically avoid all these pitfalls and so here’s the Practical question should there be a referee or an observer or somebody keeping things accountable to some level of of like Priestess class ethics and oversight for so that women don’t get mine fucked in like 10 really like spiritually raped by people who have more sort of of a black magic agenda whether they know it or not whether they’re true Sorcerers or they’re just unconscious sorceress Jose I know you’re not exactly a night and I actually love the way you frame to a referee and yes my answer is yes I believe that there should be a I think that that’s an important piece to when when engaging with students to have a another person and that that that the person in power can turn to and say hey I’m looking at connecting with this woman or this man you know nnn what do you think are they stable do you think it would be wise you know I didn’t really get a second opinion and have somebody who who has an unbiased opinion and in fact in an insta and International School Temple Arts you know in our training program at a certain point further down in the training you know that week-long training we open the field and we say what you know everybody can now engage in whatever way that they choose you know you hate your power to say no you’re empowered to call in your boundaries and that includes the facilitators however we won’t make invitation that’s that’s alright that’s our main pieces we will not make the invitation so somebody comes to us with an invitation who wants to connect before we can say yes then we need to go and speak to the other facilitators and that’s how we manage this power Dynamic that otherwise gets trampled on because you know a person and Powers as well you know this cute young hot thing wants to be with the teacher and yeah so we managed it. That’s so fascinating that’s beautiful and I’m so glad to hear that cuz I feel like coming full circle as we’re kind of wrapping up here on time it’s the essence of this whole conversation was where is the fucking Guru who knows how to fucking deal with this shit because this is serious shit you know and that that would be there maybe needs to be a security deposit or sort of like a you know I kept thinking I’d like an AA sponsor or something somebody who’s further down the path who’s trusted to make wiser decisions than you if you’re just starting at the bat and there doesn’t seem to be for a variety of reasons you know I just hear nothing but horror stories from young women who go to a meet up and just get I fucked by some Demon you know is whether it’s the teacher or just some sketchy dude off the street who could afford you know this relatively affordable way to buy something that was never to be sold really in that way many of us have been walking this path for a long time we’ve seen a lot of things just like what you’re explaining and we’re figuring ways out to get around that because we will not stop connecting when people want to connect with teacher we don’t believe that it’s a wrong path we just need to know how to do it the right way and there are those of us who are carving a path for that will thank you so much I can’t tell you what time we this is you know well I really feel the spirit just really beautiful Vibes with reconciling that cuz it can tear you apart I mean I’ve been nice I’d say I’ve been celibate most of my adult life just out of fear of being that guy you know and being that guy with Tantra is like being that guy on steroids if you know if you’re if you’re doing it wrong you know so well do you want to talk about your offerings now you know where people can find you and certainly how to connect and all that good stuff website is ecstatic awareness.com ecstatic awareness.com but that’s going to change in a few weeks I’m rebranding everything it’s going to move to my name Tree on become Aviv, I’m really excited about that I’m writing a book it’s going to be a foreman for soulful men sexuality for the Soulful man to reach out to me just go to my way my two websites for spitting on when you hear this and and reach out to me and we’ll just jump on the phone together and and see what you’re looking for what you need I’m happy to spend some time with you and and see how I can serve you and support you awesome thanks so much so and do you have any other final words or advice you like to share final words come talk to me if you’re curious about what I’ve said here you know reach out to me through my website find me on Facebook and and let’s have a conversation because if you’re curious about this path I’m happy and Overjoyed to be able to share awesome well thank you again so much I really appreciate it and all the work and play and effort you put into establishing yourself in this world and being a strong empowered voice and I really can’t thank you enough so yeah I have a great night and he’s got a www.hunterfan.com can cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help us out a permaculture goddess temples every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. 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