To celebrate episode 100, I invited my comrade and soul brother Rak Razam back to talk about his progress in the field of shamanography. His online documentary series Shamans of the Global Village is an extremely powerful and important media project that deserves and requires our grassroots support. We discuss the production of his first episode, the implications and perils of scaling the DMT experience to the masses, the philosophy of Godgasms, and much more.
Rak Razam is the world’s leading ‘experiential’ journalist, writing about and helping shape the emergence of a new cultural paradigm in the 21st century. A writer, film producer and culture maker, he bridges the worlds of shamanism, consciousness and popular culture.
He is currently producer of an episodic TV show called Shamans of the Global Village with director Niles Heckman. (http://www.shamansoftheglobalvillage.com)
A prolific media maker and networker, he hosts a popular podcast show In a Perfect World (http://in-a-perfect-world.podomatic.com) .
Author of the critically acclaimed book Aya Awakenings: A Shamanic Odyssey and the companion volume of interviews, The Ayahuasca Sessions, he is a frequent lecturer on ayahuasca and the shamanic revival sweeping the West. He wrote, produced and co-directed the groundbreaking visionary documentary Aya: Awakenings (www.aya-awakenings.com) and he leads ayahuasca retreats in Peru: http://www.aya-awakenings.com/retreats
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved is welcome to Township Funk podcast episode number 100 I am on Skype with Rak razam my dear brother in arms in the shamanic Revolution and yeah we did we did in a perfect world podcast racks podcast episode number 100 at Venice Beach under a Terence McKenna mural that we happened upon and at that point we really opened up a sort of mutual Treatise on this projected future of a perfect world than that’s already we’re already in it we just need to sort of wake up to it and enjoy it really that was a lot of it and also just getting into the how we’re weaving in the science of psychedelic research with shamanic esoteric ancient wisdom and how to really bring and merge sort of hacking The Matrix with all this medicine work and now that it’s my episode 100 I wanted to have wrecked I want to have you back and have us catch up and have you open up with the everything you’ve been achieving and then we’ll get into some deep Next Level and tactics for the for this chapter of the shamanic Revolution so with that said brother please I’ve been good in general I think you’ve been it’s it’s a pleasure to be on your show again and happy 100th episode it was saying all fair that it is it is an amazing accomplishment you know it said to be engaging with the community on an ongoing basis and to be releasing conversations like these and helping seeds different Minds with different ideas you know I think it’s part of the circuitry of adjust the global so many cool wakening but this whole new paradigm that seems to be sprouting from the the debris of the old world as it crumbles all around us and so these are the times and we are the ones and yes yes this is this is this is very interesting is in what is it is it is it is and it is more than us as well you know just just just the other weekend when I had a bit of a romantic encounter one of the interesting things that happened is like you know I feel like in so many ways we will we still we still hooked up on the ego then we still hooked up on sense of identity and an individualism and it just struck me I had to sort of Consciousness shift and it was almost as if you know the cause justness of a larger Consciousness either the world Consciousness or just I don’t know of any larger Consciousness is almost phasing in and viewing the experience of the world through my Consciousness and then I could almost feel how you couldn’t shift to the person next to me is consciousness or trees Consciousness oh yeah like I guess it’s like what is it it is essentially life itself which is is opening up and is is is witnessing and embodying and experiencing this miracle of creation and of life itself through the vessels that it has grown for itself and the thing is I think we’re getting to the stage if we can even have this conversation about intellectual leave that concept that it starts to be you know the first outer envelope all been buddying that concept which means all right so you know if you can imagine it then it can become real and essentially that’s all lyrics about what imagination really is and how you use that to sort of kava the probability fields of reality and it’s always been like that but it was starting to get these to the non-jews died or Unity Consciousness or transpersonal city names are on the rise but essentially imagine that we’re not just what we think we are and then what it is is is source is the originating medium of existence which is a real euphemism for God and I know but it’s west of of of of a life discovery of up to recognize we might say who will we what are we what is our purpose in life and in reality we’re still anchoring you know the same question biller and Karine vanasse selves and I think the answer to what we are and you know that ass that was saying is we are rich but then what is it as you say and it’s like what it what is it up to is it doing how do we see this point mutation of Consciousness itself you know in in Alex’s tenses and the existence of a species and the existence of life itself on us and for me that that’s that’s the big question is not what isn’t it right though the ancient wisdom Zelda ancient questions are coming full circle what as as were exploring the semantics I’m just having beautiful flashbacks from episode 1 of shamans of the global village where I think the I think this is now my all-time favorite cinematic device was with when you were profiling the participants of the ceremony and their you’re getting a glimpse of them getting ready to take their hit and then you flash to their most extreme moment of doubt in total rapturous ecstasy and that’s it isn’t it being sort of blown you know it’s like a cartoon character with the smoke coming out of the year is and eyes bulging just absolute to the global village. Call me when you can find it at with Niles Heckman who is the director in my partner on that and he’s the one that sang for that you know beautiful Flash Forward into the splicing and nonlinear Arrangement as he say we we took a group of Weston has to Tiburon Island to shock Islands on the West Coast of Mexico where we will have your writing a Mexican originally GPA and now it’s too many to Sylacauga who works with the the Sonoran Desert Toad the bufo alvarius incilius which is incredibly powerful basically they’re the tub contains both prefer to name and 5 Meo DMT in high concentrations and when smoke and added to your own endogenous tryptamines including 5-mer produced is essentially a non-jew state or Unity State scuse me of them complete the obliterate of individuality into into the oceanic and Incredibly loving vibration of all that is and it’s it’s just incredibly transformative an end essentially what music throughout history have been calling that white light tunnel experience so that Unity Consciousness experience and Niles was very astute and brake lever in the way he portrayed some of the participants some sacred ceremony when did the real catches and funnily enough is a media maker I have all people have filmed a lot of my Journeys over the years pretty much do that exciting I’ve been in some loose talks with somebody I will make his wanting to do in Iowa vs everybody and I’m like in the locker and you get The Descent of ceremony and the shaman you know steering the ceremony but I had so Dak and be everyone’s just sitting there and pillaging you know I like it’s the same with 5 Meo with the toad potentially with most of the chamonix Ackerman season medicines which have a deep and profound spiritual connection and healing on the inside but on the outside when you feel nice things you just getting the flesh Bonnie and then when people say it you know what that’s okay Bo has quite a few videos on YouTube and it’s a bit of a catch-22 because he really wants to promote his work and help people and I share this with the world or what he’s doing but you know it creates a bit of a discrepancy in a dissonance because people can just log on with that any sense of context or ritual themselves and you just log on and see if Facebook video or YouTube video someone going through this experience it just looks like they’re they’re going through tolcher all day going through screaming or catharsis you said it just before it sinks tosses and this is really part of the casing out culture Western Global Western culture which is global culture nowadays as soon as I said it was taking over the world does not have a relationship on mess with spiritual practices obviously there’s lots of spiritual coaches and spiritual practices are on the increase still but I guess you know capitalist consumer everyday culture doesn’t have a relationship with spirit and in specially does not have a relationship with extensions which is the Greek word for ecstasy and in that what they mean it’s the Ecstasy of connecting with the Divine and this isn’t something we necessarily need an external Catalyst to accomplish this is something which is both. Both right and Al biological and neurological imperative you know what I’ve been doing a little work with another side project the Terra incognita project Terra being the Latin Woods it’s the TV off looking at you know the Neuroscience behind trip to Maine States and especially 5-meo and unity Consciousness and you know essentially we have this functionality within us and when we are in Optima configurations is human beings when we leaving in right relationship with yours without house with the other medicines of food with the medicines of our energy when we’re away from emfs and older sort of distractions and obfuscations and pollutions of 21st century living we can be sensitive enough to the energy and the the call of the planet and a spirit itself and on those deeper levels if you sort of pump that muscle if you if you work with the endogenous tryptamine sitter renewal yo yo wait where you can have this full-blown mystical experience which is not something just to become modified or treated as separate from s elves DC that there you know what all the spiritual traditions in the religious Traditions originally on the students to promote to add a great misunderstanding the God is within and the dino the Divine Essence as well sign before what is it we are Divine beings having a human experience and Al bodies are temples to both hold Consciousness but to hold the Divine and it when you think about that when you actually put in the horse in front of the car this is a message if all of history has been the wrong way round it’s like we think we’re individuals and I think with a physical bodies when in fact with a Spiritual Beings and when women say that what does that mean it means that from my understandings of mine on juul experiences with Dave sauce it said they go see any incredibly loving and not loving like your aunt doting on you or even well sort of like your mother loving you but lately if you could if you could imagine if you could reach her feet and explode woodlouse and answers transpose that on to being in the heart of the sun and the intense Atomic vibratory explosive power of what love really is as a vibration and then how that disseminates will radiates from Deep Source through the other astral of ecological levels to I almost like you know deep sources like this Oceanic experience is like the individual Consciousness in the ego at Consciousness which thinks it’s an individual it falls away whatever the psychic and actually the the scientific reasoning for this at the moment is that does default mode Network clustering areas of the brain which are involved in the sense of ego and identity and basically create a filter between us and the lodger off switch is welded Lodge mind at large and sorcerer Lodge and they they give us these Regional ability to function on The Trestle level and in doing that they crazy go constructs which help us navigate the complexity of information overload of what reality really is down here but in doing that as well like desensitize off to a true spiritual Neches because so much of the meditation practices and different coaches you know they they teach egolessness or the whole almost a cocktail a sort of movement you know which is great because there’s all these different mainstream sudden movements which are really getting involved in reducing the sense of ego just like psychedelics an empty gyms in the shamanic medicine and then what do they reveal it like they do nothing really but that science is really studied it and I’ve seen the wind the default mode network is Switched Off and this can happen with Buy psychedelics in shamanic medicine the medicine some cells are necessarily having the psychedelico that you know is it that that transpersonal essay switching off the areas of the brain with your inhibiting our relationship with the the interdimensional energetic Cosmos which is all around us and you know it’s true that LSD for instance is metabolized for the body was in about 19 minutes but the actual psychedelic Effect season usually felt in the in the Consciousness till about half an hour or so we know that we’re opening up at Consciousness and a bean and weary sensitizing and so disability for us to have this experience and to connect to a larger aspect of our selves it’s almost as if deep sauce is like deep ocean and then you got these shamanic sort of Astral ecologies and levels where you know there’s a multiplicity of states of being and potentially other entities and other beings and bodied and embedded within a Viber tree levels of existence and then you have the the matter world and the material existence we see all around now there’s an unbroken Continuum of arbitrary energy which you know is all of those levels of existence and everything is vibration at different levels of existence and so when you get too deep sauce it is this incredible of arbitrary atomic explosion of love and love is almost not a big enough word to to do a Justice because it’s the hot and you’re you are not that you were in the heart of the star you are the heart of a star and it it’s it’s unconditional love it’s a vibration is the Primal all my guess which different Buddhists in cultures that have ascribed to see what I’m getting at is what away on what it what is it it’s one in the same but the more and more the way sensitize and we let go of the ego that Divine potential is is Hobbit within the vessel the temples of our bodies and I think you know I’m just coming so much of even the shamanic movement of psychedelic movement the spiritual movements it can be really focused on the idea of Liberation or they said they were you know and it’s a skating be on but it’s almost looking at the wrong way around because it’s almost as if all we have to do is open the space within us for it to come through it’s not that we have to do something it’s it we almost have to not do something we just have to let go of this illusion of control this egoic sense of controlling everything and and so now it seems like so much of all these movements are actually you know gearing towards you can let go of control you can do the CNN still somehow we going but it’s a relationship what I’ve discovered that we have with with sauce Consciousness with inner animal relationship everyone awakens at the right time in their own time and you can’t you can’t rush it and Yukon faucet and you cancel the cross paths in a y Sousa people that have Mountain meditation people to join to Tantra people that have joined a shamanic exploration you know the same Central sauce and people will find their own expression of Awakening I guess I I feel that you have from really stood out as as a representative of the toad medicine and it actually could help bridge a lot of gaps in my 4-1 the the idea of encountering demons or Shadow biosphere parasites astral parasites all those fears and worries and anxieties that people would have with pretty much any other tryptamine for sure it sounds like the the toad medicine experience just bypasses all of those lower levels of being and you just go straight into the light into the unified Brahma and you know the truth unisex ultimate Supreme personality of the godhead undifferentiated into any any personalities or any any gendered personalities gods goddesses demigods deities demons you know whatever it’s all you just kind of bypass that which gives it a sort of um I guess a new appeal I mean Terence McKenna was all really I think if he can I think it was his wet dream if you could have had one day to hold a magic wand he would have you know not course if not in the course of way but just given the opportunity for everybody to smoke in in GMT right and that could have that could be disastrous because people keep get freaked out because they might encounter stuff that’s attached to them like go through the Bardo and not have their wits about them and be traumatized if not worse but this is a miracle if there is an experience of that level of extreme Revelation you know in a 5-10 minutes. It’s that pretty much bypasses that that potential I guess Hard Sell for the masses right and I’m not able to don’t you know there’s no spiritual bypassing thing is God bless you know st. Terrence of course so much of the American architecture of all these conversations and it’s almost like the house that we all inhabit was really the subdivided all the foundation’s what it was built by Terrence speaking through he’s on lens so he didn’t you know pretty much you know introduce DMT to the masses in in in a very tangible way it was also one of the early should have trouble guidance of Ayahuasca when it really wasn’t that well known in the early to mid 90s and at that time between you know the 60s culture the 90s could’ve Raves psychedelic Resurgence cultural and what we have now and you know Terrence it’s it it’s a very deep responsibility to be talking about this subject so I take it very carefully and what I say and and is he can really become a missile missile mythologizing you know a lot of stuff you can be very difficult to talk about these things and I know I’m guilty of this I’ve made a documentary about the Sonoran Desert toad but I also work with the name Gio Lockwood scientists and practitioners and I’ve seen a lot more depth to it that you know when we create media room we have these conversations it’s still only one facet of it so I try to have as many facets in this conversation as I can and I think just it to come around what’s a Terrance really did an amazing job of creating awareness around these modalities in or around the fact that there were these shamanic sacraments and he helped both will see do you know this how many coaches in the morning so many coach we’ve got now but you know what generation of the tenants at Aaron’s now we’ve got like almost the Flipside in a lot of culturally trees around the the best of that culture so you know as much as said I was curious as incredibly obscure South American Plant now they loved his old South America that is you know practitioners in communities all around the world is Ayahuasca churches you know the end is really pronounce tissues around the commodification of Ayahuasca renew reabsorption of into the Western culture which is sort of pattern matching their reabsorption and commodification of psychedelics in general the medicalization the control again all these potentially revolutionary substances into a very narrow band with some experience which yes can be amazing medicines and can heal and can help treat PTSD in you know will veterans or not people they doing legal studies we said the message you know the most multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies into terminal cancer patients with psilocybin or LSD MDMA things like that there’s a danger in it be in mainstreaming here at the moment everyone’s falling over themselves to to talk about microdosing LSD you know the business periodicals The Wall Street Journal you know Time Magazine you know all these entrepreneurial so it seems like oh my God everyone’s doing it you should do it too and cilantro in in in a time time for attention deficit culture the message is going out that these things which are used to be revolutionary and now Commodities to be integrated into your busy with a clock danger of that as well and so DMT interesting ly Nails how much walking this multiple tryptamines which contains dimethyltryptamine number one you could remember that the trip to means of endogenous to Al Consciousness to humans to mammals through the plant kingdom they’re all 3 night shot it seems to be that it’s very close to the truth the main thing in your transmitter they don’t quite say that it is but it’s it’s so close that travels down the serotonin Pathways if they still indigenous tribes I know of and I know men text via rounds Darkness rituals in Thailand a couple of times a year I’ve had some friends who go into them Mexican Shaman to run Darkness for traits if the human organism is in total darkness for like 10 days or more you start to lose the Melatonin which is you know crates your skin pigment and time sense and helps the absorption of vitamin D and sunlight is melatonin Troubles Down at Saratoga Popeyes in the daytime at nighttime the tryptamines trouble down the serotonin pause Waze so if you’re entitled darkness by 60 the Melatonin supposed to leave after a few days your brain will spontaneously Patrice pineal in which episode of is a booster it’s a trip to Maine to the next to boost it for the next Cascades by Bad Day 5 6 7 you start for juice 5 Meo DMT which is what we’ve been talkin about with the Sonoran Desert toad it’s also in many different plants across the world in Stellaris cross which was quite popular in the 1990s on the shamanic the burgeoning underground some in exchange for experimenting you know and it’s grass that grows and some of them to low you but if you get a high-yield grass apparently didn’t get a very tangible return on the 5 Meo in the in the garage switch replenishable and it’s not afraid the the the coach of the environmental load on a on a native species likely thing was I was going to end unfortunately we’re also saying with his snoring desert toad but 12 and up their kind of looking okay so if you’re 12 in the person you’re interested in is a little bit older than maybe but you need to be careful with that and I think the big problem comes in as when we have people are on the cusp so you have somebody’s 15 16 17 to date someone and then they turn 18 you know the other partner turns 18 now what so now you’re not supposed to be in this relationship any longer and now all of a sudden you cannot consent to this relationship I don’t know I feel like there’s a I understand the laws and I understand the reasons for it I think it’s great to protect people but I also think we don’t give teens credit for being actual sexual persons who can make choices for themselves yeah I was certainly with a lot of older women when I was under 18 so that would have I would have been upset and sad if anyone tried to step in and on that but it’s better than a master complicated certainly you I don’t know I guess in my area would have been that just as a rule of thumb male sexual energy was just kind of demonised is being predatorial. And now it’s a lesbian couple it’s a female identified female body young women who were yeah it’s a different just so many different Dynamic so who knows where it’ll lead at this point but at least the center for sexuality is here to have these conversations and do you have do you have do you want to talk about a bit about what your your passion is as an educator in the as a professor like what are you do you have any research that you’re doing your department so are you kind of um yeah like kind of locking into a specific topics that interest you amongst all these things I mean most of my work still centers around sexuality and I usually teach introductory an advanced human sexuality courses they also teach other classes so I teach mainly in sociology departments so you know I teach about society and culture and people but I really like teaching about deviance and doing research on deviance and identity and and all that kind of stuff so a lot of my research is about BDSM is about sex work is about feminist pornography is a kinds of fun stuff I’m presenting at a conference next month on a paper that came out about a year ago and the Journal of sex medicine my colleagues and I did a study on looking at BDSM as a Leisure activity so if we can say fine it’s not pathology let’s stop talking about it that way so okay then what is it and we thought well maybe it fits Weezer and if we look at leisure as not just a Pastime but as something that you identify with something that makes you feel whole makes you feel fulfilled is something that you choose to do then then I think it can fit into that category so that’s one of the big one of the big research projects I worked on very recently that’s awesome you have to make it makes me think that if I were to have to explain anthropologically or take that sort of the view of being an alien trying to understand what people are doing her I would kind of say well when when kids are pre-pubescent they make believe and they create epic worlds of Adventure and fantasy role-play and then when people come of age you become adults and they realize that they have these new toys that develop then they want to use them and actually be imaginative and creative in and use their whole potential of their erogenous imagination and their new toys and then they can actually play freely with each other where you know when when kids are playing playing games that you would consider to be somewhat violent and nature they don’t usually actually harm or kill each other you know so it’s not that hard it’s not that great of a leap of logic right to imagine that adults would reaxis some of that imaginary fun making instincts or hate American culture as we really look down on Leisure we would look down on play and we look down on make-believe and so we decide that’s just for children and it’s not for grown ups and I think that that’s a really horrible horrible perspectives of the world cuz you’re only a child for a very very brief point of your life and you’re an adult for a really really long part of your life and wouldn’t I don’t want to stop playing. Why would you want to grow up ever and so yeah I think of BDSM I think erotic play I feel like yeah it’s just this extension of your creativity and artistic and Tristan and your means of expressing yourself and now you get to have sex so why wouldn’t you add that and everything else thank you for helping to frame it that way cuz that it’s it’s so it’s easier to digest when you when I just have never heard that what that phrase before but it just erotic play being obviously it means that you could incorporate more than just your one monogamous married partner that’s just still only allowed that culturally they by the mainstream the idea of being sexually playful with a group of people in the community of people as a social activity like a cocktail party or a mixer or I mean why can’t you believe make break into play make-believe you know the okay fine I just I’m this is my partner this is the only person I’m going to have sex with her I’m going to be in love with or however you’re defining that but I can pretend for the next hour or two that there’s someone I’ve never met before or that there a superhero or that a magical being or whatever and that can really shift your erotic interest in your erotic pleasure I think you probably would be able to say that it will make a lot of relationships last longer and be more Pap more healthier happier for sustainable resilient cuz you’re not getting bored and giving up and going you know stoic that’s great so do you have a key tell it tell me more about the center and how it how it runs and functions is it kind of like a drop-in center or do you have only certain events at certain times or how does the facility time work out we don’t actually have a physical location most of it exists inside my laptop and out of and that means we don’t have to pay for rent so that’s why we go to where we need to go so you know we have regular meetings happen in my house or one of the other board members houses we do have some events here and there are a lot of our fundraisers or just online to make it easier to reach as many people as possible and of course we’re trying to reach a broader audience than just Los Angeles so we Skype workshops we Skype things we’ve talked to classes in New York and classes in Idaho and you know all over the place so you know we do a lot of different things we also have an academic Journal that you’re positive sexuality it’s free it’s open access anyone is welcome to use it and read it and submit work to it and you know that’s been going we’re now in our third year of publication of that and that is hitting a worldwide audience some of the countries that are accessing this are it’s all over in Australia and in Belgium and in various parts of the UK and it’s hitting parts of Asia Japan so it’s really really great so we have a very wide reach and what we do we have approximately 50 to 60 volunteers who work with us we also have an internship program so we get college students who want internship credits or what the work experience and so they volunteer for a specific. Of time and work on specific projects for us at different times of the year we get most of our interns during the summer but we get interns year-round and we have in our volunteers so we have Educators we have people who are research Affiliates and who published research and use the center is one of their professional affiliations we have research assistants who helped them we do you work with events so we do some Outreach events I think on Wednesday we’re going to UCLA sextravaganza which is been happening for several years on UCLA’s campus that we usually set up a booth are we do that with other things around town we’ve also have members some of our volunteers go to conferences all over the world and represent us at different places and in different areas where they were very popular in Melbourne just found out from a friend who’s been living in Australia for past couple years so I can’t I guess we’ll have to go there at some point cool it’s a new cloud-based model it’s elegant and overhead in the neighborhood drama and that there’s a lot of reasons to transcend that six location and you can if you can be a mobile you know unit then you can just take your your your laptop and projector and some you know what your handouts or whatever you have in this b a and again because true using Skype and using other types of internet programs you know we can get into a classroom you know that might not be able to bring us there physically but we can still do it will set it up on our end and and just stream live stream wherever we need to be and and it’s very helpful to cuz we so we have volunteers I think are farthest away volunteer that we’ve had so far was in Trinidad so we can have volunteers from anywhere in the world who can work with us medication programs and so they help us Creator update or education resources in our reference materials and putting together things to help teachers facilitate this in their classes they might actually be one of our Educators we train people to go out to those classes and to give presentations to places we have research assistants to make come in with a certain amount of background knowledge and how to do academic research and some come in just wanted to learn it and so we trained them and they work with people who are doing research in various aspects of positive sexuality and so some of them get to co-author papers and some of them get to work on the ground floor of research happening and get to really get into what that is and have a voice and have an influence in what’s being done in the academic world and this is course then starts to affect policy when we’re putting scientific research in front of people and saying here this is what the says that’s not the correct or let them besides these aspects and that can be very very helpful we work with other organizations so and CSF the National Coalition for sexual freedom is one of our sort of co-working his nation’s the community academic Consortium for research on alternative sexualities we work with them as well yeah I’m getting chills yeah I’m getting chills cuz this is a lot more than I bargained for and actually seeking a lot of what you’re describing and to have yeah we hope we have a good bit of time last time feeling compelled to ask you a little bit about I guess hey if you’re into taboos right blowing them there is all I ever believed starting this week there’s going to be the biggest psychedelic science conference in the history of humanity happening in the Bay Area it’s put together by that multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies and the there’s a lot of really important cutting-edge legal for the first time in decades studies happening all over the world with psilocybin you know I gave magic mushrooms and MDMA and Ayahuasca and marijuana and peyote and I will gain a number of other synthetic and natural organic you could say psychedelic compounds in a lot of it is at this point in this stage of the Renaissance of research it’s really about proving the safety the relative safety of different compounds getting the dosage to be sort of understood better at also having some really important clinical trials around ending ending addiction to harmful drugs ending cigarette addiction end-of-life anxiety sexual abuse and Trauma and PTSD from War veterans there’s all these different the demographics that are starting to have really groundbreaking results and they’re doing you know they’re putting in the millions of dollars to do the the research for all this and so I bring that up just to say that this is an interesting juncture for me because the a cultural cliche about sex drugs and rock and roll and you know the way that the culture of inebrians is starting to move a large part due to Raves and festivals it’s moving more towards entheogens than just Coke and heroin and meth and booze there’s more opportunities for people who are coming into their sexuality to have access to psychedelic experiences and so there’s the new Alchemy of innocent in these Generations between sex drugs and rock and roll and if it’s it’s it’s it’s a lot more sophisticated and advanced and and and just more diverse in many ways than it was in the 60s when it was you know Acid Rock and LSD and other birth of the the hippie movement in the 60s but I’m wondering if you have in your position they’re come across any any any people who are interested in in rigorous academic study of what this new sex and drugs and rock and roll Paradigm it is shaping up to become if there’s anyone interested in that that you know of he’s been there are definitely people who are starting who are doing research on these topics and very often the connection that ends up happening in the academic research is you know if we’re looking at the sex drugs and rock and roll that of course is going to look at the outcomes and too often I think the the outcome that gets stressed is okay so what’s the what’s the public health issue so is it possible or is it likely that people are might be transmitting STIs because they might be under the influence of something or maybe they can’t we do we have to worry about consent if someone is under the influence of something that then means that they cannot now consent to what happens at that point so what happens if everybody who’s involved have done that so where does that line get drawn so I think a lot of the issues that have come up in recent research has been either on public health topics around STI transmission or on consent topics recognizing that at least by law if someone is inebriated for example they can now no longer consent to sexual activity okay so what happens if everybody involved. That’s so interesting yet that’s exactly what I’ve been actually encountering and in just by life experiences it’s there’s there’s a lot of people now who were you can say you were having expanded Consciousness through empty agentic use meaning it’s kind of a nice way of saying psychedelic no drugs but but that’s an important consideration because just because you feel like you’re enlightened than that one with God doesn’t mean that you’re immune from being the perpetrator with that Enlightenment that you don’t think you have a potential for abuse and even if it’s not that sort of shady you know where that sort of Insidious there’s also just the issue you’re not in your body if you’re having an out-of-body ecstatic psychedelic experience how how do you get even if you can send it to the idea of something earlier in the evening that has to be held through somehow and if you lose the if you become somebody else or part of your higher self or whatever it could be theirs that’s some chicky territory for sure yeah so that’s I guess there’s you know that I’ve seen like at electronic dance music events you can call him Rave but that’s kind of more you know probably more accurate term these days cuz there’s within that whole world there’s different camps and it’s more no more more bride to just called electronic dance music these days but you know there is there’s sort of harm reduction education Outreach groups that put out one sheet kind of look like glass CD mailer cards you know about business matters and they have kind of a profile of what the different substances how did how to test and make sure that they’re real or are what you’re getting it like that there’s that whole harm reduction education Outreach approach that is kind of like what you’re talking about but it’s for the party scene in just for best and better practices around that but I could see that they’re being a sum interest group of people where they would want to see things the way you’re talking about it cuz I actually no way you’re framing it it it feels like there’s a lot more due diligence for people that want to be credible and respectable and using best practices to actually think with some of these analytical tools so I’m hoping you’ll be great if there was some overlap or or or Synergy with all this stuff I think more and more what is happening as we’re seeing the people who are actually involved in all of these different spaces you know the people were actually doing whatever it is we’re talking about having more influence on the research that’s being conducted so that it creates a more authentic overall experience and I think it adds a level of legitimacy to the research so rather than a researcher sort of from on high saying well I’m going to study this group and I think what they’re doing may not be safe and so we know the perspective that I’m going to come about with this is that well this is already inherently unsafe and now I’m going to show you why it’s in safe and I think more and more we have researchers who are in these communities who are in these faces or doing all of these things and you say you know maybe we need to do is talk to the people who were actually doing this and not talk to them with a preconceived notion of what’s going on or what they’re experiencing or what may be happening but go in just as a hey could give us some information to tell us about what’s happening and I think we’re seeing more of that so there has been research on for example like barebacking and there’s been research on sex workers experiences and there’s been research on sort of the the spiritual some of the spiritual Connections in the spiritual extremes that can be experienced through extreme SM activities light hookah coals and those kinds of things so we’re seeing more and more of that happening where people who are actually in these groups are part of the subcultures are also crossovers into the academic life and we’re just seeing an amazing amount of research that starting to Bubble to the surface and get a little bit of space. I think this research has been getting done for quite a while but it can be really hard to get it published because some of the academic Publishers don’t want to hear about it and I want you to my is any of these things so if they publish something on it they want to be really careful so with our journal and with some of the other journals out there we’ve been able to bridge. Cap and actually be able to show some I feel like more authentic stories well absolutely will now in this world have so many The Gatekeepers being dissolved by the power of the internet I feel like you know there’s a lot of bad journalism or untrained journalism so there’s got to be a lot of bad or untrained or Incredible or uncredible research but maybe it’s the methodology that can be what’s the word sort of feel like I could imagine what as you were speaking I was imagining will wouldn’t it be great to train the you know that like the anthropological participation observation ethnography kind of model but if you were to train if you were coming from that subculture and you wanted to sort of document your tribe and produce your own ethnography kind of amongst your friends kind of tabulate experiences and collect notes insured compare notes is there was you recommend any kind of Crash Course doing data collection for different types of research paper I’m doing ethnography in the field and sort of how that works and how you can sort of pull everything together there’s a really good little guidebooks you know a quick online search for for some of these guys are out there and ask her if she is amazing stuff I love doing a photography by the way I think it’s an incredible tool that doesn’t get use nearly enough and and it got a lot of researchers a colleague of mine she recently did a photographic ethnographic working with lgbtq Foster Youth and homeless Youth and kind of went out gave them all cameras and said take photographs of Your World of your life of who you are, and they did a whole art show you know like found a gallery in Downtown LA and just played everyone’s photographs and and you know really got people connected to them and seeing them as people who have life experiences and they’re not just sort of a category of disadvantaged kids so yeah I think there’s there’s an easy guide books out there just like a quick you can find some quick little things of how to do ethnography and how to do that and but I think a lot of that to starts with her own storytelling so things that you do and things that others do and and all the bloggers out there and everything of these are all forms of ethnography relay yeah that’s cool it’s just that it’s exciting and hopeful cuz I feel that I’m at a point where I’m doing kind of pseudo-scientific Rogue radical research that’s way too far out for any government agency or any academic institution to touch with a ten-foot pole so it’s it’s kind of on me and my colleagues and friends 2 do this sort of underground research but then hope that it it’s done in a way that it can be respectable or it can be legitimated later you know but it is probably good to do what you’re suggesting and actually have some some templates for collecting the data that mean okay here’s what would our experiment yielded and here’s the methodology in the procedure and you can test it on your own Hardy or lab or whatever replicate what you’ve done and so can you give enough information that would allow somebody else to replicate and get similar results in their own place or find totally different results which is also fascinating injured and interesting and yeah and I think that’s really I mean that’s science that is science Sciences pushing boundaries and science is you now let’s try a new thing and see what happens and science is telling a new story or New Perspective of a story and you know I think that that’s been lost over the past many years Society The Sciences inquiry science is asking questions and wondering why thing happens and how something happens and trying to figure that out and I think that we’ve sort of collectively as a larger society have sort of lost that Focus write the word crowdsourced crowd-source funding crowdsourced ideas and editing and an art I mean you were talking about that at that photo gallery exhibit and that’s a great example if you would call that a crowd-sourced ethnographic oh yeah photojournalism nice oh yeah that’s cool that’s that’s exciting time so I’m also wondering now do you have do you do you or your organization the Center provide any kind of consulting services or any kind of where you could be hired or you could be sort of commissioned to do research or to consult on Research I don’t know that we’re I don’t know that anybody is really hired to do research cuz wouldn’t it be fantastic if someone will pay for that but that doesn’t happen if we do get hired as consultants for a variety of things so either individuals within the organization or the collective organization May consult on certain projects or consult on like creative curriculum for a particular thing and we have individuals who are consulted on court cases and I’m legal issues so so there’s a lot of that we also get hired by professionals like to teach professional workshops on various topics so that happens as well because we’re a nonprofit although those things are often we you know ask for fee cuz usually the people who were asking for these services are people who can pay for it but what going out to the schools we’re going to colleges in touch or we have a student group asked us to come and do something with them or like what you know we go to somebody’s community of answer something we may ask for an honorarium but we’re going to do this stuff for free so we really depend on our donors and our contributors and the people who support us to kind of give us the funding that we need in order to do what we want to do and and to publishing and all the other stuff so our journals available for free most of our Outreach staff and education program is all for free so yeah a lot of what we do depends on donations as opposed to people actually hiring us officially to do something right on that sounds like a healthy well-rounded multi Revenue stream nonprofit you’re definitely fulfilling your mission in so many beautiful dimensions and I’m just really happy to know that we’ve connected to some really feel better about living in the world with you more offline 2 just to explore some of these Consulting opportunities that you have and see what we’re about and all of that stuff were completely volunteer so none of us are paid for what we do I don’t run a paycheck nobody wants a paycheck that’s completely volunteer and yeah we’re just we’re just trying to let you know we just try to bring it enough funds to keep going and to keep doing what we’re doing and to expand so we’re actually going to be expanding our face-to-face education program out to Chicago over the next few months so Craig can you do that that’s well thank you so much that’s great I feel like it’s it’s really refreshing to to hear that there are people out there who are so dedicated to the cause that it’s that you did not just going to slam the door in your face if you don’t write a check if you know the first five minutes if you’re not going to bill me for this podcast interview right now about an hour into it is do you have a sort of committee or task force or team or just even a person who is either because they are a trauma Survivor or because it’s just near and dear to their hearts whatever reason is there you do consent workshops in self-defense or rape and assault prevention and any any more of the or any any of the sort of preventative and treatment kind of education unpreparedness we do have programs around consent we don’t really specifically talk about self defense or or right prevention in the standard sense so we don’t really talk about here’s what you can do to prevent being raped we talked about here’s what you can do to not rape someone because really this is not on the victim this is on the perpetrator but we also talked about you know here’s other ways that you might think about your sexual self and your identity in the power dynamics that you may interact with and find consensual outlets for some of your interests and behaviors and the citiz and you know we talked about a wide range of those things so it would be great if the people who are doing the Rape Crisis counseling and who are just in the trenches of dealing with battered women and in and going in and and doing you know investigations to catch meant to prosecute the perpetrators of all ages if they were I would let it would be great if in it you know in a perfect world they were seeking you all to educate themselves on better prevention and better version or diversion from the criminal whole that the response like they’re coming as the First Responders two incidents that would have been prevented by a proper education on all sides right and we do have we do have information so some of our researchers and and because we have people who are social workers who have conducted research through us who have published on how to do how to have a sex positive approach to handling victims how to have a sex positive approach to handling offenders and that these approaches can really help reduce crime can reduce negative stigma can reduce it comes cool is that would that be on your website or at some if I if I can follow up with you later cool okay well alright I feel like it’s this is yes. A real blessing and I just want to thank you again for your time and generous sharing of great info so with that said do you want to give the website and any other maybe upcoming events or anything else you’d like to promote and the website is positive sexuality. Org journal and that’s Journal of positive sexuality. Org we have our anniversary party coming up this July so if you want to be invited and want to be a part of that anniversary party will be a fundraiser you can contact me at Emily Emily at positive sexuality. Org or you can go to our website and put in your email address and then you’re on our newsletter list and you’ll get information through our newsletter about our party and we’re hoping we’re putting together an academic conference for next year so look on our website check things out if you go to sex pause khan.com so s e x p o s c o n. Com there’s going to be updated information they’re probably starting in the next couple of weeks for our positive sexuality conference coming up in 2018 in Burbank all right that’s very exciting thank you again yeah that’s me alright thank you so much again and I will hopefully I’ll be in touch soon thank you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite sex if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at kontrapunkt. Com Thomas gay