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Mike Antipathy Eco Punk Logo

Forest Love and Rugged Collectivism with Eco-Punk Mike Antipathy TPP269

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In this episode I’m joined by my old dear friend Mike Antipathy for a trip down memory lane back to the eco-punk squatted forests of the pacific northwest

Contact Mike at safetypunk (at) gmail (dot) com

Check out his Eco Punk Column here: http://slugandlettuce.net/columns/eco-punk

My Non Verbatim Show Notes:

Old punk house, portland, or

vegan straight edge, deep ecology

trying to get land as a base to reclaim a bunch of everything

apathy and privilege rant

let’s get together and wreck shit

important for people of extreme left to get a dose of real back woods americana, politics of the constitution, boot strapping businesses, rugged diy attitudes

activist scene run by kids with trust funds

working in the woods cutting down trees

12 of use living in the house

kids traveling to europe, squatting we were stuck just working

bio region, forest, politically, right before WTO, big movement in portand, really exciting, coming off days of early 90s, nazis street fighting

more of a working class artist warehouse, used to ride bikes over there

spurkraft

first permaculture workshop with sasha scatter from icarus project

right as gentrification starting to crack, alberta, warehouse, the maul venue

liberation collective, all ages venues, record stores, collectives, solidarity and comradery across movements

wasn’t infected by super negative elitist eugene vibe

lot of toxicity

pre 9/11 heyday, more breathing room

anarchist collective network, stitch together different activities

the nuge survivalist workshop

backwoods skills

ted nugent documentary, metal heads joke about old rock and metal

he’s a deep character, people love to hate him, proto romance with survivalism

scheduled a workshop, the nuge workshop

school trustafarian crust punks, teach how to each things in the wild

virtues growing up working class white, grow up with guns, fire, chopping wood, machetes, watching red dawn 10,000 times

earth first heyday

Antipathy zine

13 going to record stores, super into Iron Maiden, Twisted Sister, Ozzy Osborne

Dead Kennedys

got out of abuse church, DK album cover, In God We Trust ep

Got that, had that song moral majority, nazi punks fuck off

Black Flag wasted era

Bad Brains

English stuff, Crass, Flux of Pink Indians, Rudimentary Peni

NY hardcore, politics dodgey but man the music

trying to get all the bands and all the music you can get into your head

Icky’s Tea house, 13th and Washington, venues in Eugene

Resist and Exist and Asylum gathering, apocalyptic mad max, profane existence, pull quote, a cross between braveheart and lord of the flies

portland was always weird, oregon’s mountains, everything drains into the columbia, eugene, the willamette, drains to columbia, then the pacific, punks metal heads queers, riot girls, drifted down stream to portland

big enough you could have this punk scene where you never had to associate with anyone else

hang out, you and the hippies, logger kids the smoked weed, eugene still had that, punks all hung out with the hippies, ravers, underground hip hop scene, cross cultural stuff wasn’t happening in portland

eugene had been a very very lefty, warren creek, saving last stands of old growth, feel into that hook line and sinker when I was 18

what if we had punk politics rebellion, bodies between trees and chainsaws, music festival, outreach, literature, speakers, connect kids to something bigger

Chaos Days 95

horror stories of the carnage

flyers for chaos days, 19 we rolled in thick, sf, turned out to be a bust

food not bombs

coming back man what if we did chaos days

get arrested for smart shit, icky’s sunshine the patron saint of all things counter culture, big shout out

just put in on man, I’ll make space for you, put out flyers, ads in maximum rock in roll, profane existence, slug and lettuce, booking

all the sudden 3000 punks from all over the world flooding eugene, raising hell, robbing liquor stores

city council meeting to lift camping ban, running for mayor

resist and exist, the punk scene in the 90s, trauma kids, mental illness

guy got throat slit, someone run over by train, skinhead problem

mutual aid network to defend selves from skin heads

sf scum fucks

horrible gang rape, intense shit

shows shut down

bands show up out of own pockets

road bike around eugene, underneath bridge, dystopia played, fanatics, all kicked off

skin heads showed up, starting shit, gutter punks, scum fucks, got super violent

watching all these gutter punks smashing heads with smilies, pivotal movement

for most of the people who survived times, extreme environments, a lot of us were idealist about a utopian pacifist anarchist, had to be tactical for the shows to happen, how much more anarchy could you get or could you want, we got what we prayed for, we got what we asked for, we just didn’t know at the time that we had it

asylum, chaos punx, train hoppers, amoral gangs, rape and pillage, mauraders, vandals, parasitized, they could have made a movie, decline of western civilization, hollywood drunx period, hdp

punk scene in la now is so good, love it so much

stiff little fingers show all old white people

where are the punks, where are the kids, everyone’s on their phone, filming, no ones dancing

the legend, troll, leader of the drunk punx

strung out, sweet kids

asylum, earth first going through growing pains

punk rock more radical, queer, take earth first to something more radical, bigger better world view than a bunch of straight dudes drinking coors

there’s this old growth, one stand, massive beautiful powerful trees, climbing 12 foot thick doug firs, we should do something about this

music festival in general area

some old log deck clearing, bands playing, workshops, invite all these different things a big presence will be this environmental movement,

sacred land don’t bring alcohol

earth first, going through wanting to have focused gatherings on sacred land, alcohol is really toxic and poison for a lot of native people

found amazing log deck up

not too far from hot springs

bands played all this water, everything was set up, kids from hollywood showed up

scum fuck kids from seattle showed up, turned into a warzone

van of alcohol rolls up, all the pc kids face the trauma kids

one night of bands, political kids fend off gnarly drunk punk trauma kids

giant orgy guy, with pick axe, taxing people for whatever they had, barbarian style

became orgy of violence and debaucherous robbery, primitive weapons

regroup in the city

h2h, the system created them, the system has to deal with them

never wanting to involve authorities in our bubble of anarcho punk utopia, felt we should have might, means, reasoning, collectivized consensus judicial systems to get through anything

at a certain point, it’s over our heads

notion that we should feel bad that we can’t handle the situation, we didn’t create it, the system did

we had that moment

pulled it together, relocate to new location

security meetings, perimeters

good times, hot springs, jumping off train bridge, made out in spin the bottle

bought manowar kinds of metal lp

really important that the music happened

remember driving away from the log deck, bitchin reservoir, Neil brought the food not bombs, legend, big shout out, still living the life,

he’d invite you over to his house to stay, vegan

driving away

whole arizona punk scene, really friendly, really tough

most of those hollywood kids are dead

good training for us wasn’t it

that was fucking raw man

sometimes you think you know what you’re life story is hinged on, the pivot points, now I’m realizing

eugene wasn’t a cult of john zerzan, it was a cult of group think

in the forest my heart chakra began to develop

fabric of punks, earth firsters, fall creek

almost half my life in l.a. I’m only in la because of the follow up

gotta recruit the foot soldiers of the punk movement, either apathetic or hyper political and don’t know what to do except book shows, make donations

the idea of living in off grind, anarchist community of earth first based, that whole tribal community, an experience not a lot of the radical punks got to have, I was blessed to eventually get there

when I first went to fall creek, camped there on and off for months

had that feeling I’ve got to mobilize the punk movement

went on us tour, ended up landing me in la for about 20 years, did bring some people out there

that was the spirit, how do we get these places protected, sorting through some of the really toxic riff raff and get some real eco warriors out there

give ourselves a toast, home break apple cherry cider

raising glass, bringing punks to the front line of fall creek

Mike Antipathy, eco punk column, antipathy zine

fall creek was one of the most dysfunctional fucked up environmental movements of its time, almost entirely staffed by trauma kids, a bunch died, from the trauma the ghosts, the demons they couldn’t escape, you don’t get into this shit unless something has gone really really sideways in your development

its a really good thing that we’re able to transform whatever bad shit happened to us into a desire to make the world a better place, not all of us get out of it

barely made it out of that, big glasses raised to all those people who didn’t make it, they were important

tribute to fall creek, and all the other people we’ve lost

fanzine, like to rant about stuff

look back, fuck

crazy, can’t believe it came out of my mouth, last one came out after 2000

super helpful

slug and lettuce, free newspaper all across the world, seen in south east asia, street punk market, stacks of slug and lettuce, out of the goodness of her heart

asked to write a column

reunification of rural roots, having been raised on a farm

if you think you can do forestry better, get up and do it

followed old generation earth firsters, we’re doing it better

fell into working on logging sites, tree climber, got into that, through that getting bigger and bigger in terms of work I was doing

talk about howling wolves, salmon run coming up the stream

print magazines for the subcultural left, and punk movement

internet, just too much, doesn’t matter

if you were gonna write a zine you had to put art, creativity, research, cut and paste, go places, to produce a zine the effort that would have to be made, was a heart work, don’t want to take that away from people who have blogs on the internet, but something to be said

generation gap between my youth and the new generation

back in my day joke, it was like this, walk 10 miles in the snow to get to school, american men, masculinity, their disgust and disdain at the softness of the next generation and how easy it is, and how they take things for granted and how privileged they are, it’s weird to now get that wisdom

thoughts on current punk scene, millenial, how have the millenials, picked up the culture of punk, amdist all the social media, big data, rigged and engineered algorithms, shadow ban you

where are we at with punk

super into, super into the way the young people are right now

really intense shit happening in the 80s and 90s not really as intense anymore

portland, nazis at shows mid to late 90s, now there’s not

didn’t see faces get stomped on curb, didn’t see heroin

go to a lot of shows, kids are so nice, so conscientious to each other

have more money these days, europe go to big punk fests, things are looking up, punks are leading the way, not doing the vapid shit of the sexy selfies so much

still around the scene, nothing moves me as much as my time, tour in mexico 2003, where I most dedicated most pure hearted, fabric of intergenerational punks, what I had always dreamed up

so cal pride

so much hate on millenials, being spoiled rotten, good to know

hopefully there will be more mentors

brings us through most of the chapters where we had been running in the same circles

get into some politics and some survivalist prepper stuff, debriefing on current events

take radical experiences and politics, cover tattoos and do ballsy work within the system

from that spirit of rugged collectivism, permaculture

zombie apocalypse fantasies where your mind at

wild, go into stores, shelved emptied of dumbest shit

not real scarcity

all the shit is still there, but people are freaked

two weeks a month of groceries so we’re not exposing ourself or contributing to more people dying

this is not the apocalypse I’d imagined I thought it was gonna have a lot more smoke, cop cars, sirens

y2k sitting in our mountain compound, waiting for the glow of burning cities in rural oregon, we were fuckin ready, bunch of dried beans

shit turned out to be a fuckin bust

unsung heros, not a geek or hacker, have to study info security, trying to catch up on what I had not been clued into, steve gibson, security now podcast, people laugh about how y2k was a non event, but only because the engineers busted their ass to make it not be

trippy point, I hear all these whistle blowers talk about how they’ve bungled the pandemic response, which governments have fucked everything up

if you do the proper preventative measures and you’re successful at preventing the catastrophe from happening, people will want to cut your budgets and say you’re wrong because it never happened, the thing you were predicting that you’re urging people to prepare for, if you’re effective at preparing for it and preventing it, then it’s not a thing, and people have cognitive dissonance, so then they get soft

south korea and singapore, more experience with SARS, culture of wearing masks

don’t get trampled on the way to the fema truck

live in a mexican neighborhood, exactly the same, stores are stocked, most people work in fields, not a lot of disposable income to buy all the toilet paper from costco

keeping local

not the apocalypse I wanted, where we got to be warlords

tin foil hat segment

some people scary, depending on where you are on the political spectrum, unraveling of world economy, opportunism, could go on some extreme tin foil hat

tin foil hat adventure

I don’t have much tin foil anymore

just being vegetarian, shopping in bulk, already had the bags of rice, nothing is out of wack, ammo from dead dad

have a 10 year old now, trying to teach him to be a better non toxic man

could be carriers of a virus that’s pretty gnarly

court systems all shut down

completely suspend habeas corpus, no right to speedy trial, indefinitely post poned

poor, mentally ill, mostly brown and black, get rid of the constitution indefinitely, let people linger for low level offenses

system’s even worse than we ever thought it was

not opposed to abolishing prisons, what are thoughts on trying to lesson density of over crowded prison, letting them out early into what, what’s their severance package, where they gonna go

prop 47, all the sudden supposed to let all the drug possession felonies, made it all misdemeanors, lack of treatment

gabor mate, science, trauma, addiction

prosecutors and cops running on 1950s notions, anyone who touches drugs is evil

most people in justice system don’t have experience with drugs and trauma, they should let more prisoners out

prisons make us less safe, prison increasingly traumatized, I don’t know

this whole system was made by slave owners

positive note, decriminalize nature movement, spreading across the nation, decriminalized plant and fungi entheogens

some jurisidictions, diversion programs incorporate trauma healing with entheogens

don’t feel hopeful about it, california is fascist as fuck, last place that does anything healthy with that as a state

state banned gay marriage on purpose in 2008, california is so completely backwards

I don’t think it’s gonna happen

despite people kicking heroin with iboga

not gonna have access to that healing modality, federally still illegal

things are getting worse legally than they ever have been, with exception of immigration

the state is going to take excess in as many directions as they can, then have to be austere in enforcement in other things

numbers of police departments, knocked out because of sick or quarantine

foreshadowing for emergent properties of anarchy that were never imagined

even losing of parking restrictions

dimensions of freedom that are unenforceable

we’re blessed to have the internet as long as it lasts

getting more into traditional survivalist communications, ham radio, late bloomer on, trying to go through thought experiments, what will you never forgive yourself if you don’t have this prep dialed in, you take for granted, you’re be said you didn’t prioritize what that was, everyone has a different checklist

I’m feeling pressure on as general question that can apply to anybody

no easy to cover ass, cover assets, do proper estate planning, what if you can’t do updated last will because you can’t assemble the witness you need to sign the document, government is doing all kinds of digitization of procedures

officially time stamp my intention

whatever is left after paying minimal debt, executor of will, power of attorney they would take some percentage to pay themselves for the time to sort out what intellectual property I have and what potential revenue streams may be funneling into my estate, decided I want whatever is net gain of my estate, to actually be distributed among non profits, I have no heirs, that are individuals, would rather structure something where I can say, here’s a list of non profits, I would want it distributed equally among the, 3 I have in mind are the Red Brigade in lucknow india,sexual abuse and rape survivors banded together to make most bad ass indian version of a riot girl collective, teaching each other self defense and martial arts, self policing neighborhoods, most bad ass warrior kung fu clan, martial arts masters from all over the world have gone to volunteer to train them, and give them seminars, they’ve set up non profit donations, part should go to them, part to the Women’s Visionary Congress, and the Decriminalize nature movement, all these represent what has kept me alive, and allowed me to transcend my traumas, I don’t know if what I said would hold up in any legal proceeding, at least this will exist til the paper work can happen

now everyone has a reason to do the unthinkable, do the estate planning

spoke to mother, here’s my plan, let me know your plan, this is a bridge we have to think about crossing

5 wishes, template to know how you have to frame things like how you want to be buried, what ritual you want around that, so people can’t abuse you after you’re gone, protect your soul:

I want to put this out, time stamping this conversation:

I would like to be cremated, and buried while planting a fruit or nut tree so that I sign can be posted saying here lies ben lawson feel free to piss on his grave and nitrify this fruit tree and if you ever cut it down or let it die, I’m gonna come back and haunt your ass

if you can donate organs donate organs

freeze my brain so my bitcoin holding will be worth gazillions more by the time they thaw me out

been trying to catch up on many years lost on anarcho primitivism versus cryptoanarchism

hacker punks, manifestos of crypto anarchy in early 90s, legacy of hacker collectives, the talk of the wall street billionaires, government officials abandoning their posts to join the movement

this is the thing you could commiserate on, I never believed anything anarchist came up with would be competitive with incumbent systems

they actually built something that was competitive, was able to out compete

line malcolm x once said, make the old system obsolete, they era that we were in , the analogy of how astonishing it is they were able to make millionaires and billionaires out of this hacker implementation of cryptography, it’s like saying food not bombs was so loved and so competitive with mcdonalds, kfc, everyone started showing up and paying everyone at food not bombs, fnb became the cherished favorite food of all americans, you never would have thought that something out of the anarchist caldron of creativity, would actually do that, without brute force, without violence, with an elegant ninja tactic, actually out manuver the system, and give it a run for its money, literally, and that’s what’s happened, something I’ve tried to catch up on, not for everybody to learn all the nuts and bolts, gotta raise the glass to all the geeks and hackers that I’ve always fuckin respected, the ones that told me that I shoulda fuckin paid attention to this and I was too busy huggin trees, I coulda bought those timber sales

thing with environmental movement is that a lot of the stuff we got out of that wasn’t actually what we went in there for, it was all those other lessons, we saved precious few forests but we learned a lot more, that you would never have learned if you were sittin in a dark apartment writing code and buying bitcoin

something to be said about wild forests, skinny dippin in natural waters, and smellin your own body odor and smellin your own shit everyday, those are formative things, that make us better

couldn’t have said it better, love you brother

no small contribution you’ve made to my life

stay wild

always remember, every day when I wake up I remember that quote, whatever keeps the barrel out of your mouth, that’s the proper way to live