Tag Archives: entheogens

Mike Kokal pic

Discussing Religion, Permaculture, and Pandemics with Mike Kokal TPP260


In this episode I’m joined by Mike Kokal of the End of the Road podcast for a free style discussion about the intersections of religion, permaculture, and pandemics

About Mike:

Mike Kokal is the host of the End of the Road Podcast which showcases an eclectic mix of guests working with ordinary and non-ordinary states of consciousness in the finite playground we all find ourselves in: “The Horizons we strive to touch but are already there.”

Mike is also practices civil litigation and is a patent attorney. His professional bio can be found at: https://secure.heylroyster.com/attorneys/details.cfm?attorneyID=90

The End of the Road Podcast, which is nearing 100 episodes, can be found here are wherever you listen to podcasts: https://endoftheroad.libsyn.com/

My Non Verbatim Show Notes

Current events strategy, don’t have a tv, don’t know if that makes me a luddite

don’t like to watch news, 24 hour news cycle on tv

I like bbc service, somewhere between bbc and economist seems to be much more objective than nbc, fox

haven’t compared statistics to prior outbreaks, spanish influenza, killed a lot more people than recent outbreaks

haven’t really studied it, the new social media interfacing with that, changing the narrative or not

happened before historically, originally had state laws for mandatory vaccinations, resistances to that, if we’re talking about martial law, court cases developed since then, in the wake of that

not something I’ve studied in any detail, precedent of state being able to dictate that you must receive this or that

united states in a lot of ways is the bread basket for the world, immediate needs we’re fortunate here, more or less self sufficient with oil

we have enough food, less fortunate countries dependent on outside aid, most drastic effect on economy

grew up in wyoming, canned goods, bottled water, everything came in was fresh

I guess I have not being participated in disaster preparedness

I started going to a church, come across the minister, civic groups, 99% african american church, minister, very thoughtful definitely get good vibes from him, last sermon on book of revelations of the bible, psychedelic adventure going through hell, fragmented snakes and demons, believes we’re approaching the end times

put on the clock of god, shed the trappings of evil, you could interpret that as to how our society is so removed from any of the basic hardships that most people throughout history have suffered

huge homeless problems, but what would happen if there really were systemic disruptions of service, how would be react, bring people together, honor and helping each other

I think just about every age they’ve always thought they were going through the end times

if the gates of hell our unleashed, revelation, sun melts thing, global warming, could be something to that

what does it mean to get yourself right with god, seeing life in more spiritual terms, brush with organized church in the past hasn’t been the best, a lot of truth in the original messages, reframe in a way that doesn’t involve rape

the trauma is all around us, some of us put up walls for one reason or another, so many people in the u.s. and the world in that predicament

it’s all around us, it is now, what do we do about it

all these people that are there are us, we’re sharing in their journey, it’s still there, what responsibility does that have, do we stock pile, prepare

maybe I’m just waiting for the answer, seems like there’s something, it’s right here, homeless problem right here

it’s been bringing people in the community together, everybody feels it

haven’t been able to fashion a long range thing, does put something in the air, spawned different community groups, whether we want to face it or not it’s there, there is suffering

affects you even if you live in a gated community

facinated by christian idea of service, the simple, the old mother teresa, franciscan way of serving people, see god in everything, go to the leper colonies, serve the poorest of the poor see that those people are god

very shamanic, recognizing, we’re all part of the same body, when you take care of the people who are the most needy,

there is a lot of overlap in the fundamental christian messages and the shamanic messages that are very powerful

humans are always looking for that new thing, speaking more to myself, grew up in catholic background, new appreciation by shamanic means, entheogens,

we think we’re discovering something new, but just going back to where we’re starting from

love, peace, service, basic messages, a lot of mainline christian groups in united states, a lot of beauty in that

I have this knee jerk reaction, the church doesn’t let women participated in the priesthood, or priest telling me what to do

messages in scriptures a lot of practices beautiful

what kind of messages really resonates with me

what I think is appealing to some of the shamanic messages, why I think they’re getting more popularity in this area

when you do a medicine ceremony, shaman isn’t telling you what to do, they’re just singing a song, the icaros

if you were a leader of a church or something, not so much be pedantic, or even thinking you have a flock, that you need to pastor to, within yourself you create this music, not so much the content, but the love and the energy, such a beautiful metaphor for future leaders

not worry about telling people things, but rather just serving people, creating the music to foster people’s positive energy

seeing the god in the other person, the god within you

shouldn’t single out priests, even somebody like us on a podcast talking about stuff

struggling with in my own life, what is my truth, what is my messages, what is my song, why am I doing this podcast

started off, interested in interviewing other people, socratic method, listening to them talk, asking them questions, within interjecting my own anything, what exactly is our role as a person

two daughters, what do I tell them about how to act, do I tell them no you shouldn’t do this, how do you convey the message in your own family

just create your own song that makes people want to join in on your song, not projecting energy outward, oh I have this truth and you need to see it to, more intangible, its an energetic thing almost

I still like to go to churches to hang out and feel the energy

if you’re in a concert, when you have a group of people sharing, all able to participate, not just one person lecturing, everybody passing around the rock, participate in the dialog, share something important to them

with social media, increased connectedness learn to capitalize on that and bring it together allow people to share their own voice, without the old model the priest was leading the flock, politician leading the flock, everybody

for me its an energetic thing, not so much based on content, there is a role that you do have to say something, not just it, when I was doing zen practice, go in for an interview with the zen priest they ask you coans or different things, always one response is silence, I always kept getting prompted to say, what is your voice, can sit there a bump on a log, its your life, participate in a meaningful way, you’re not gonna reinvent the wheel

part of my practice is to become more grounded, what better way to ground than in the ground, your shit is interconnected to everything, reconnecting you to the universe, you’re not separating from it, your shit is a fertilizers that grows the food you eat in a wonderful cycle

a lot of my practices are to intentionally reconnect myself

priests, men of god, good intentions, I just had the feeling the church as a whole was resisting reconciliation with victims, law suits, that’s the way our society deals with these transgressions

it doesn’t solve the priest trauma, that they obviously experienced to propagate more trauma on the victims if the church would admit it’s fault

that really should be the mission of the church, priests are part of the divine, victims are part of the divine, perpetrators, victims alike, not to shield themselves

just say my heart goes out to everybody in that trauma cycle

Santa Cruz Decrim Nature

Santa Cruz Decriminalizes Plant and Fungi Entheogens TPP236


In this episode I share the audio recording from the Santa Cruz city council vote that decriminalized entheogens:

Resolution declaring that the investigation and arrest of individuals twenty-one (21) years of age and older involved with the adult personal use and personal possession of entheogenic psychoactive plants and fungi listed on the Federal Schedule 1 list be amongst the lowest priorities for the City of Santa Cruz.

Read more at:

Xbiz Consent Panel banner

Shamanic Pornography and the Ethics of Consent TPP230


In this episode I’m sharing the 2019 Xbiz Show Consent Round Table session where I respectfully introduced a question for the panel on the ethics of consent for psychedelic shamanic pornography. Not knowing how I’d be received it took a bit of bravery to speak up but I was met with gracious insight and advisement from industry veterans. They were on point with their concerns and dissuasive remarks, all of which I take to heart and value like gold. I feel that whether you’re a sex work, porn performer or producer, or so called “civilian” with no involvement in the sex industry, this panel is very enlightening, and I thank them all very much for briefly holding space for my niche question.

Gender, Sacred Sexuality and Spirit Work with Lee Harrington TPP215


Lee Harrington Pic

In this episode I’m very pleased and honored to be joined by the highly accomplished Lee Harrington, he is one of those very precious “where have you been all my life” kind of sapiosexual soul mates that you feel like you could talk with forever and ever.

I knew this was going to be a deep, profound, enlightening, and transformative journey. His  perspectives on sexual healing, liberation, and empowerment are vast, multi-dimensional, and infinitely thought provoking. I’m looking forward to many ongoing explorations, it felt like we barely massaged the surface.

He shares his personal background of transitioning from being born assigned female to becoming a man,  developing personal practices and group opportunities to experience sacred kink, working as an adult performer, becoming an international sacred sexuality educator and advocate, and so much more.

Our dialog felt like a free-style jam where we riffed off each other’s musings, laments, and future-positive affirmations and visioneerings. It felt like a bit of collaborative improvisational spell craft; all intended to expand love, acceptance, compassion, and co-operation.

We dance with language and he provides insight into ways to evolve the terminologies we use to define “us and them” and when appropriate, transcend to more of a continuum than a dichotomy. I’m hopeful with the application of Lee’s wisdom teachings, we’ll move towards an unprecedented global village where a new “us with them” paradigm will replace the “us and them” and “us vs them” binaries.

About Lee:

Lee Harrington is an internationally known spiritual and erotic authenticity educator, gender explorer, eclectic artist, and award-winning author and editor on sexual and sacred experience. He is a nice guy with a disarmingly down to earth approach to the fact that we are each beautifully complex ecosystems, and we deserve to examine the human experience from that lens. He has been an academic and female adult film performer, a world class sexual adventurer, an outspoken philosopher, is a kink/bondage expert, and has been blogging about sex and spirituality since 1998. His books include “Sacred Kink: The Eightfold Paths of BDSM and Beyond,” “Traversing Gender: Understanding Transgender Realities,”“Playing Well With Others: Your Guide to Discovering, Exploring and Negotiating the Kink, Leather and BDSM Communities”(with Mollena Williams), “Shibari You Can Use: Japanese Rope Bondage and Erotic Macramé,” and others.  You can find Lee’s podcast, tour schedule, free essays, videos, and more over at www.PassionAndSoul.com

Godgasms with Rak Razam TPP100


Rak Razam Pic To celebrate episode 100, I invited my comrade and soul brother Rak Razam back to talk about his progress in the field of shamanography. His online documentary series Shamans of the Global Village is an extremely powerful and important media project that deserves and requires our grassroots support. We discuss the production of his first episode, the implications and perils of scaling the DMT experience to the masses, the philosophy of Godgasms, and much more.

Please visit his websites at:

About Rak:
Rak Razam is the world’s leading ‘experiential’ journalist, writing about and helping shape the emergence of a new cultural paradigm in the 21st century. A writer, film producer and culture maker, he bridges the worlds of shamanism, consciousness and popular culture.

He is currently producer of an episodic TV show called Shamans of the Global Village with director Niles Heckman. (http://www.shamansoftheglobalvillage.com)

A prolific media maker and networker, he hosts a popular podcast show In a Perfect World (http://in-a-perfect-world.podomatic.com) .

Author of the critically acclaimed book Aya Awakenings: A Shamanic Odyssey and the companion volume of interviews, The Ayahuasca Sessions, he is a frequent lecturer on ayahuasca and the shamanic revival sweeping the West. He wrote, produced and co-directed the groundbreaking visionary documentary Aya: Awakenings (www.aya-awakenings.com) and he leads ayahuasca retreats in Peru: http://www.aya-awakenings.com/retreats

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved is welcome to Township Funk podcast episode number 100 I am on Skype with Rak razam my dear brother in arms in the shamanic Revolution and yeah we did we did in a perfect world podcast racks podcast episode number 100 at Venice Beach under a Terence McKenna mural that we happened upon and at that point we really opened up a sort of mutual Treatise on this projected future of a perfect world than that’s already we’re already in it we just need to sort of wake up to it and enjoy it really that was a lot of it and also just getting into the how we’re weaving in the science of psychedelic research with shamanic esoteric ancient wisdom and how to really bring and merge sort of hacking The Matrix with all this medicine work and now that it’s my episode 100 I wanted to have wrecked I want to have you back and have us catch up and have you open up with the everything you’ve been achieving and then we’ll get into some deep Next Level and tactics for the for this chapter of the shamanic Revolution so with that said brother please I’ve been good in general I think you’ve been it’s it’s a pleasure to be on your show again and happy 100th episode it was saying all fair that it is it is an amazing accomplishment you know it said to be engaging with the community on an ongoing basis and to be releasing conversations like these and helping seeds different Minds with different ideas you know I think it’s part of the circuitry of adjust the global so many cool wakening but this whole new paradigm that seems to be sprouting from the the debris of the old world as it crumbles all around us and so these are the times and we are the ones and yes yes this is this is this is very interesting is in what is it is it is it is and it is more than us as well you know just just just the other weekend when I had a bit of a romantic encounter one of the interesting things that happened is like you know I feel like in so many ways we will we still we still hooked up on the ego then we still hooked up on sense of identity and an individualism and it just struck me I had to sort of Consciousness shift and it was almost as if you know the cause justness of a larger Consciousness either the world Consciousness or just I don’t know of any larger Consciousness is almost phasing in and viewing the experience of the world through my Consciousness and then I could almost feel how you couldn’t shift to the person next to me is consciousness or trees Consciousness oh yeah like I guess it’s like what is it it is essentially life itself which is is opening up and is is is witnessing and embodying and experiencing this miracle of creation and of life itself through the vessels that it has grown for itself and the thing is I think we’re getting to the stage if we can even have this conversation about intellectual leave that concept that it starts to be you know the first outer envelope all been buddying that concept which means all right so you know if you can imagine it then it can become real and essentially that’s all lyrics about what imagination really is and how you use that to sort of kava the probability fields of reality and it’s always been like that but it was starting to get these to the non-jews died or Unity Consciousness or transpersonal city names are on the rise but essentially imagine that we’re not just what we think we are and then what it is is is source is the originating medium of existence which is a real euphemism for God and I know but it’s west of of of of a life discovery of up to recognize we might say who will we what are we what is our purpose in life and in reality we’re still anchoring you know the same question biller and Karine vanasse selves and I think the answer to what we are and you know that ass that was saying is we are rich but then what is it as you say and it’s like what it what is it up to is it doing how do we see this point mutation of Consciousness itself you know in in Alex’s tenses and the existence of a species and the existence of life itself on us and for me that that’s that’s the big question is not what isn’t it right though the ancient wisdom Zelda ancient questions are coming full circle what as as were exploring the semantics I’m just having beautiful flashbacks from episode 1 of shamans of the global village where I think the I think this is now my all-time favorite cinematic device was with when you were profiling the participants of the ceremony and their you’re getting a glimpse of them getting ready to take their hit and then you flash to their most extreme moment of doubt in total rapturous ecstasy and that’s it isn’t it being sort of blown you know it’s like a cartoon character with the smoke coming out of the year is and eyes bulging just absolute to the global village. Call me when you can find it at with Niles Heckman who is the director in my partner on that and he’s the one that sang for that you know beautiful Flash Forward into the splicing and nonlinear Arrangement as he say we we took a group of Weston has to Tiburon Island to shock Islands on the West Coast of Mexico where we will have your writing a Mexican originally GPA and now it’s too many to Sylacauga who works with the the Sonoran Desert Toad the bufo alvarius incilius which is incredibly powerful basically they’re the tub contains both prefer to name and 5 Meo DMT in high concentrations and when smoke and added to your own endogenous tryptamines including 5-mer produced is essentially a non-jew state or Unity State scuse me of them complete the obliterate of individuality into into the oceanic and Incredibly loving vibration of all that is and it’s it’s just incredibly transformative an end essentially what music throughout history have been calling that white light tunnel experience so that Unity Consciousness experience and Niles was very astute and brake lever in the way he portrayed some of the participants some sacred ceremony when did the real catches and funnily enough is a media maker I have all people have filmed a lot of my Journeys over the years pretty much do that exciting I’ve been in some loose talks with somebody I will make his wanting to do in Iowa vs everybody and I’m like in the locker and you get The Descent of ceremony and the shaman you know steering the ceremony but I had so Dak and be everyone’s just sitting there and pillaging you know I like it’s the same with 5 Meo with the toad potentially with most of the chamonix Ackerman season medicines which have a deep and profound spiritual connection and healing on the inside but on the outside when you feel nice things you just getting the flesh Bonnie and then when people say it you know what that’s okay Bo has quite a few videos on YouTube and it’s a bit of a catch-22 because he really wants to promote his work and help people and I share this with the world or what he’s doing but you know it creates a bit of a discrepancy in a dissonance because people can just log on with that any sense of context or ritual themselves and you just log on and see if Facebook video or YouTube video someone going through this experience it just looks like they’re they’re going through tolcher all day going through screaming or catharsis you said it just before it sinks tosses and this is really part of the casing out culture Western Global Western culture which is global culture nowadays as soon as I said it was taking over the world does not have a relationship on mess with spiritual practices obviously there’s lots of spiritual coaches and spiritual practices are on the increase still but I guess you know capitalist consumer everyday culture doesn’t have a relationship with spirit and in specially does not have a relationship with extensions which is the Greek word for ecstasy and in that what they mean it’s the Ecstasy of connecting with the Divine and this isn’t something we necessarily need an external Catalyst to accomplish this is something which is both. Both right and Al biological and neurological imperative you know what I’ve been doing a little work with another side project the Terra incognita project Terra being the Latin Woods it’s the TV off looking at you know the Neuroscience behind trip to Maine States and especially 5-meo and unity Consciousness and you know essentially we have this functionality within us and when we are in Optima configurations is human beings when we leaving in right relationship with yours without house with the other medicines of food with the medicines of our energy when we’re away from emfs and older sort of distractions and obfuscations and pollutions of 21st century living we can be sensitive enough to the energy and the the call of the planet and a spirit itself and on those deeper levels if you sort of pump that muscle if you if you work with the endogenous tryptamine sitter renewal yo yo wait where you can have this full-blown mystical experience which is not something just to become modified or treated as separate from s elves DC that there you know what all the spiritual traditions in the religious Traditions originally on the students to promote to add a great misunderstanding the God is within and the dino the Divine Essence as well sign before what is it we are Divine beings having a human experience and Al bodies are temples to both hold Consciousness but to hold the Divine and it when you think about that when you actually put in the horse in front of the car this is a message if all of history has been the wrong way round it’s like we think we’re individuals and I think with a physical bodies when in fact with a Spiritual Beings and when women say that what does that mean it means that from my understandings of mine on juul experiences with Dave sauce it said they go see any incredibly loving and not loving like your aunt doting on you or even well sort of like your mother loving you but lately if you could if you could imagine if you could reach her feet and explode woodlouse and answers transpose that on to being in the heart of the sun and the intense Atomic vibratory explosive power of what love really is as a vibration and then how that disseminates will radiates from Deep Source through the other astral of ecological levels to I almost like you know deep sources like this Oceanic experience is like the individual Consciousness in the ego at Consciousness which thinks it’s an individual it falls away whatever the psychic and actually the the scientific reasoning for this at the moment is that does default mode Network clustering areas of the brain which are involved in the sense of ego and identity and basically create a filter between us and the lodger off switch is welded Lodge mind at large and sorcerer Lodge and they they give us these Regional ability to function on The Trestle level and in doing that they crazy go constructs which help us navigate the complexity of information overload of what reality really is down here but in doing that as well like desensitize off to a true spiritual Neches because so much of the meditation practices and different coaches you know they they teach egolessness or the whole almost a cocktail a sort of movement you know which is great because there’s all these different mainstream sudden movements which are really getting involved in reducing the sense of ego just like psychedelics an empty gyms in the shamanic medicine and then what do they reveal it like they do nothing really but that science is really studied it and I’ve seen the wind the default mode network is Switched Off and this can happen with Buy psychedelics in shamanic medicine the medicine some cells are necessarily having the psychedelico that you know is it that that transpersonal essay switching off the areas of the brain with your inhibiting our relationship with the the interdimensional energetic Cosmos which is all around us and you know it’s true that LSD for instance is metabolized for the body was in about 19 minutes but the actual psychedelic Effect season usually felt in the in the Consciousness till about half an hour or so we know that we’re opening up at Consciousness and a bean and weary sensitizing and so disability for us to have this experience and to connect to a larger aspect of our selves it’s almost as if deep sauce is like deep ocean and then you got these shamanic sort of Astral ecologies and levels where you know there’s a multiplicity of states of being and potentially other entities and other beings and bodied and embedded within a Viber tree levels of existence and then you have the the matter world and the material existence we see all around now there’s an unbroken Continuum of arbitrary energy which you know is all of those levels of existence and everything is vibration at different levels of existence and so when you get too deep sauce it is this incredible of arbitrary atomic explosion of love and love is almost not a big enough word to to do a Justice because it’s the hot and you’re you are not that you were in the heart of the star you are the heart of a star and it it’s it’s unconditional love it’s a vibration is the Primal all my guess which different Buddhists in cultures that have ascribed to see what I’m getting at is what away on what it what is it it’s one in the same but the more and more the way sensitize and we let go of the ego that Divine potential is is Hobbit within the vessel the temples of our bodies and I think you know I’m just coming so much of even the shamanic movement of psychedelic movement the spiritual movements it can be really focused on the idea of Liberation or they said they were you know and it’s a skating be on but it’s almost looking at the wrong way around because it’s almost as if all we have to do is open the space within us for it to come through it’s not that we have to do something it’s it we almost have to not do something we just have to let go of this illusion of control this egoic sense of controlling everything and and so now it seems like so much of all these movements are actually you know gearing towards you can let go of control you can do the CNN still somehow we going but it’s a relationship what I’ve discovered that we have with with sauce Consciousness with inner animal relationship everyone awakens at the right time in their own time and you can’t you can’t rush it and Yukon faucet and you cancel the cross paths in a y Sousa people that have Mountain meditation people to join to Tantra people that have joined a shamanic exploration you know the same Central sauce and people will find their own expression of Awakening I guess I I feel that you have from really stood out as as a representative of the toad medicine and it actually could help bridge a lot of gaps in my 4-1 the the idea of encountering demons or Shadow biosphere parasites astral parasites all those fears and worries and anxieties that people would have with pretty much any other tryptamine for sure it sounds like the the toad medicine experience just bypasses all of those lower levels of being and you just go straight into the light into the unified Brahma and you know the truth unisex ultimate Supreme personality of the godhead undifferentiated into any any personalities or any any gendered personalities gods goddesses demigods deities demons you know whatever it’s all you just kind of bypass that which gives it a sort of um I guess a new appeal I mean Terence McKenna was all really I think if he can I think it was his wet dream if you could have had one day to hold a magic wand he would have you know not course if not in the course of way but just given the opportunity for everybody to smoke in in GMT right and that could have that could be disastrous because people keep get freaked out because they might encounter stuff that’s attached to them like go through the Bardo and not have their wits about them and be traumatized if not worse but this is a miracle if there is an experience of that level of extreme Revelation you know in a 5-10 minutes. It’s that pretty much bypasses that that potential I guess Hard Sell for the masses right and I’m not able to don’t you know there’s no spiritual bypassing thing is God bless you know st. Terrence of course so much of the American architecture of all these conversations and it’s almost like the house that we all inhabit was really the subdivided all the foundation’s what it was built by Terrence speaking through he’s on lens so he didn’t you know pretty much you know introduce DMT to the masses in in in a very tangible way it was also one of the early should have trouble guidance of Ayahuasca when it really wasn’t that well known in the early to mid 90s and at that time between you know the 60s culture the 90s could’ve Raves psychedelic Resurgence cultural and what we have now and you know Terrence it’s it it’s a very deep responsibility to be talking about this subject so I take it very carefully and what I say and and is he can really become a missile missile mythologizing you know a lot of stuff you can be very difficult to talk about these things and I know I’m guilty of this I’ve made a documentary about the Sonoran Desert toad but I also work with the name Gio Lockwood scientists and practitioners and I’ve seen a lot more depth to it that you know when we create media room we have these conversations it’s still only one facet of it so I try to have as many facets in this conversation as I can and I think just it to come around what’s a Terrance really did an amazing job of creating awareness around these modalities in or around the fact that there were these shamanic sacraments and he helped both will see do you know this how many coaches in the morning so many coach we’ve got now but you know what generation of the tenants at Aaron’s now we’ve got like almost the Flipside in a lot of culturally trees around the the best of that culture so you know as much as said I was curious as incredibly obscure South American Plant now they loved his old South America that is you know practitioners in communities all around the world is Ayahuasca churches you know the end is really pronounce tissues around the commodification of Ayahuasca renew reabsorption of into the Western culture which is sort of pattern matching their reabsorption and commodification of psychedelics in general the medicalization the control again all these potentially revolutionary substances into a very narrow band with some experience which yes can be amazing medicines and can heal and can help treat PTSD in you know will veterans or not people they doing legal studies we said the message you know the most multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies into terminal cancer patients with psilocybin or LSD MDMA things like that there’s a danger in it be in mainstreaming here at the moment everyone’s falling over themselves to to talk about microdosing LSD you know the business periodicals The Wall Street Journal you know Time Magazine you know all these entrepreneurial so it seems like oh my God everyone’s doing it you should do it too and cilantro in in in a time time for attention deficit culture the message is going out that these things which are used to be revolutionary and now Commodities to be integrated into your busy with a clock danger of that as well and so DMT interesting ly Nails how much walking this multiple tryptamines which contains dimethyltryptamine number one you could remember that the trip to means of endogenous to Al Consciousness to humans to mammals through the plant kingdom they’re all 3 night shot it seems to be that it’s very close to the truth the main thing in your transmitter they don’t quite say that it is but it’s it’s so close that travels down the serotonin Pathways if they still indigenous tribes I know of and I know men text via rounds Darkness rituals in Thailand a couple of times a year I’ve had some friends who go into them Mexican Shaman to run Darkness for traits if the human organism is in total darkness for like 10 days or more you start to lose the Melatonin which is you know crates your skin pigment and time sense and helps the absorption of vitamin D and sunlight is melatonin Troubles Down at Saratoga Popeyes in the daytime at nighttime the tryptamines trouble down the serotonin pause Waze so if you’re entitled darkness by 60 the Melatonin supposed to leave after a few days your brain will spontaneously Patrice pineal in which episode of is a booster it’s a trip to Maine to the next to boost it for the next Cascades by Bad Day 5 6 7 you start for juice 5 Meo DMT which is what we’ve been talkin about with the Sonoran Desert toad it’s also in many different plants across the world in Stellaris cross which was quite popular in the 1990s on the shamanic the burgeoning underground some in exchange for experimenting you know and it’s grass that grows and some of them to low you but if you get a high-yield grass apparently didn’t get a very tangible return on the 5 Meo in the in the garage switch replenishable and it’s not afraid the the the coach of the environmental load on a on a native species likely thing was I was going to end unfortunately we’re also saying with his snoring desert toad but 12 and up their kind of looking okay so if you’re 12 in the person you’re interested in is a little bit older than maybe but you need to be careful with that and I think the big problem comes in as when we have people are on the cusp so you have somebody’s 15 16 17 to date someone and then they turn 18 you know the other partner turns 18 now what so now you’re not supposed to be in this relationship any longer and now all of a sudden you cannot consent to this relationship I don’t know I feel like there’s a I understand the laws and I understand the reasons for it I think it’s great to protect people but I also think we don’t give teens credit for being actual sexual persons who can make choices for themselves yeah I was certainly with a lot of older women when I was under 18 so that would have I would have been upset and sad if anyone tried to step in and on that but it’s better than a master complicated certainly you I don’t know I guess in my area would have been that just as a rule of thumb male sexual energy was just kind of demonised is being predatorial. And now it’s a lesbian couple it’s a female identified female body young women who were yeah it’s a different just so many different Dynamic so who knows where it’ll lead at this point but at least the center for sexuality is here to have these conversations and do you have do you have do you want to talk about a bit about what your your passion is as an educator in the as a professor like what are you do you have any research that you’re doing your department so are you kind of um yeah like kind of locking into a specific topics that interest you amongst all these things I mean most of my work still centers around sexuality and I usually teach introductory an advanced human sexuality courses they also teach other classes so I teach mainly in sociology departments so you know I teach about society and culture and people but I really like teaching about deviance and doing research on deviance and identity and and all that kind of stuff so a lot of my research is about BDSM is about sex work is about feminist pornography is a kinds of fun stuff I’m presenting at a conference next month on a paper that came out about a year ago and the Journal of sex medicine my colleagues and I did a study on looking at BDSM as a Leisure activity so if we can say fine it’s not pathology let’s stop talking about it that way so okay then what is it and we thought well maybe it fits Weezer and if we look at leisure as not just a Pastime but as something that you identify with something that makes you feel whole makes you feel fulfilled is something that you choose to do then then I think it can fit into that category so that’s one of the big one of the big research projects I worked on very recently that’s awesome you have to make it makes me think that if I were to have to explain anthropologically or take that sort of the view of being an alien trying to understand what people are doing her I would kind of say well when when kids are pre-pubescent they make believe and they create epic worlds of Adventure and fantasy role-play and then when people come of age you become adults and they realize that they have these new toys that develop then they want to use them and actually be imaginative and creative in and use their whole potential of their erogenous imagination and their new toys and then they can actually play freely with each other where you know when when kids are playing playing games that you would consider to be somewhat violent and nature they don’t usually actually harm or kill each other you know so it’s not that hard it’s not that great of a leap of logic right to imagine that adults would reaxis some of that imaginary fun making instincts or hate American culture as we really look down on Leisure we would look down on play and we look down on make-believe and so we decide that’s just for children and it’s not for grown ups and I think that that’s a really horrible horrible perspectives of the world cuz you’re only a child for a very very brief point of your life and you’re an adult for a really really long part of your life and wouldn’t I don’t want to stop playing. Why would you want to grow up ever and so yeah I think of BDSM I think erotic play I feel like yeah it’s just this extension of your creativity and artistic and Tristan and your means of expressing yourself and now you get to have sex so why wouldn’t you add that and everything else thank you for helping to frame it that way cuz that it’s it’s so it’s easier to digest when you when I just have never heard that what that phrase before but it just erotic play being obviously it means that you could incorporate more than just your one monogamous married partner that’s just still only allowed that culturally they by the mainstream the idea of being sexually playful with a group of people in the community of people as a social activity like a cocktail party or a mixer or I mean why can’t you believe make break into play make-believe you know the okay fine I just I’m this is my partner this is the only person I’m going to have sex with her I’m going to be in love with or however you’re defining that but I can pretend for the next hour or two that there’s someone I’ve never met before or that there a superhero or that a magical being or whatever and that can really shift your erotic interest in your erotic pleasure I think you probably would be able to say that it will make a lot of relationships last longer and be more Pap more healthier happier for sustainable resilient cuz you’re not getting bored and giving up and going you know stoic that’s great so do you have a key tell it tell me more about the center and how it how it runs and functions is it kind of like a drop-in center or do you have only certain events at certain times or how does the facility time work out we don’t actually have a physical location most of it exists inside my laptop and out of and that means we don’t have to pay for rent so that’s why we go to where we need to go so you know we have regular meetings happen in my house or one of the other board members houses we do have some events here and there are a lot of our fundraisers or just online to make it easier to reach as many people as possible and of course we’re trying to reach a broader audience than just Los Angeles so we Skype workshops we Skype things we’ve talked to classes in New York and classes in Idaho and you know all over the place so you know we do a lot of different things we also have an academic Journal that you’re positive sexuality it’s free it’s open access anyone is welcome to use it and read it and submit work to it and you know that’s been going we’re now in our third year of publication of that and that is hitting a worldwide audience some of the countries that are accessing this are it’s all over in Australia and in Belgium and in various parts of the UK and it’s hitting parts of Asia Japan so it’s really really great so we have a very wide reach and what we do we have approximately 50 to 60 volunteers who work with us we also have an internship program so we get college students who want internship credits or what the work experience and so they volunteer for a specific. Of time and work on specific projects for us at different times of the year we get most of our interns during the summer but we get interns year-round and we have in our volunteers so we have Educators we have people who are research Affiliates and who published research and use the center is one of their professional affiliations we have research assistants who helped them we do you work with events so we do some Outreach events I think on Wednesday we’re going to UCLA sextravaganza which is been happening for several years on UCLA’s campus that we usually set up a booth are we do that with other things around town we’ve also have members some of our volunteers go to conferences all over the world and represent us at different places and in different areas where they were very popular in Melbourne just found out from a friend who’s been living in Australia for past couple years so I can’t I guess we’ll have to go there at some point cool it’s a new cloud-based model it’s elegant and overhead in the neighborhood drama and that there’s a lot of reasons to transcend that six location and you can if you can be a mobile you know unit then you can just take your your your laptop and projector and some you know what your handouts or whatever you have in this b a and again because true using Skype and using other types of internet programs you know we can get into a classroom you know that might not be able to bring us there physically but we can still do it will set it up on our end and and just stream live stream wherever we need to be and and it’s very helpful to cuz we so we have volunteers I think are farthest away volunteer that we’ve had so far was in Trinidad so we can have volunteers from anywhere in the world who can work with us medication programs and so they help us Creator update or education resources in our reference materials and putting together things to help teachers facilitate this in their classes they might actually be one of our Educators we train people to go out to those classes and to give presentations to places we have research assistants to make come in with a certain amount of background knowledge and how to do academic research and some come in just wanted to learn it and so we trained them and they work with people who are doing research in various aspects of positive sexuality and so some of them get to co-author papers and some of them get to work on the ground floor of research happening and get to really get into what that is and have a voice and have an influence in what’s being done in the academic world and this is course then starts to affect policy when we’re putting scientific research in front of people and saying here this is what the says that’s not the correct or let them besides these aspects and that can be very very helpful we work with other organizations so and CSF the National Coalition for sexual freedom is one of our sort of co-working his nation’s the community academic Consortium for research on alternative sexualities we work with them as well yeah I’m getting chills yeah I’m getting chills cuz this is a lot more than I bargained for and actually seeking a lot of what you’re describing and to have yeah we hope we have a good bit of time last time feeling compelled to ask you a little bit about I guess hey if you’re into taboos right blowing them there is all I ever believed starting this week there’s going to be the biggest psychedelic science conference in the history of humanity happening in the Bay Area it’s put together by that multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies and the there’s a lot of really important cutting-edge legal for the first time in decades studies happening all over the world with psilocybin you know I gave magic mushrooms and MDMA and Ayahuasca and marijuana and peyote and I will gain a number of other synthetic and natural organic you could say psychedelic compounds in a lot of it is at this point in this stage of the Renaissance of research it’s really about proving the safety the relative safety of different compounds getting the dosage to be sort of understood better at also having some really important clinical trials around ending ending addiction to harmful drugs ending cigarette addiction end-of-life anxiety sexual abuse and Trauma and PTSD from War veterans there’s all these different the demographics that are starting to have really groundbreaking results and they’re doing you know they’re putting in the millions of dollars to do the the research for all this and so I bring that up just to say that this is an interesting juncture for me because the a cultural cliche about sex drugs and rock and roll and you know the way that the culture of inebrians is starting to move a large part due to Raves and festivals it’s moving more towards entheogens than just Coke and heroin and meth and booze there’s more opportunities for people who are coming into their sexuality to have access to psychedelic experiences and so there’s the new Alchemy of innocent in these Generations between sex drugs and rock and roll and if it’s it’s it’s it’s a lot more sophisticated and advanced and and and just more diverse in many ways than it was in the 60s when it was you know Acid Rock and LSD and other birth of the the hippie movement in the 60s but I’m wondering if you have in your position they’re come across any any any people who are interested in in rigorous academic study of what this new sex and drugs and rock and roll Paradigm it is shaping up to become if there’s anyone interested in that that you know of he’s been there are definitely people who are starting who are doing research on these topics and very often the connection that ends up happening in the academic research is you know if we’re looking at the sex drugs and rock and roll that of course is going to look at the outcomes and too often I think the the outcome that gets stressed is okay so what’s the what’s the public health issue so is it possible or is it likely that people are might be transmitting STIs because they might be under the influence of something or maybe they can’t we do we have to worry about consent if someone is under the influence of something that then means that they cannot now consent to what happens at that point so what happens if everybody who’s involved have done that so where does that line get drawn so I think a lot of the issues that have come up in recent research has been either on public health topics around STI transmission or on consent topics recognizing that at least by law if someone is inebriated for example they can now no longer consent to sexual activity okay so what happens if everybody involved. That’s so interesting yet that’s exactly what I’ve been actually encountering and in just by life experiences it’s there’s there’s a lot of people now who were you can say you were having expanded Consciousness through empty agentic use meaning it’s kind of a nice way of saying psychedelic no drugs but but that’s an important consideration because just because you feel like you’re enlightened than that one with God doesn’t mean that you’re immune from being the perpetrator with that Enlightenment that you don’t think you have a potential for abuse and even if it’s not that sort of shady you know where that sort of Insidious there’s also just the issue you’re not in your body if you’re having an out-of-body ecstatic psychedelic experience how how do you get even if you can send it to the idea of something earlier in the evening that has to be held through somehow and if you lose the if you become somebody else or part of your higher self or whatever it could be theirs that’s some chicky territory for sure yeah so that’s I guess there’s you know that I’ve seen like at electronic dance music events you can call him Rave but that’s kind of more you know probably more accurate term these days cuz there’s within that whole world there’s different camps and it’s more no more more bride to just called electronic dance music these days but you know there is there’s sort of harm reduction education Outreach groups that put out one sheet kind of look like glass CD mailer cards you know about business matters and they have kind of a profile of what the different substances how did how to test and make sure that they’re real or are what you’re getting it like that there’s that whole harm reduction education Outreach approach that is kind of like what you’re talking about but it’s for the party scene in just for best and better practices around that but I could see that they’re being a sum interest group of people where they would want to see things the way you’re talking about it cuz I actually no way you’re framing it it it feels like there’s a lot more due diligence for people that want to be credible and respectable and using best practices to actually think with some of these analytical tools so I’m hoping you’ll be great if there was some overlap or or or Synergy with all this stuff I think more and more what is happening as we’re seeing the people who are actually involved in all of these different spaces you know the people were actually doing whatever it is we’re talking about having more influence on the research that’s being conducted so that it creates a more authentic overall experience and I think it adds a level of legitimacy to the research so rather than a researcher sort of from on high saying well I’m going to study this group and I think what they’re doing may not be safe and so we know the perspective that I’m going to come about with this is that well this is already inherently unsafe and now I’m going to show you why it’s in safe and I think more and more we have researchers who are in these communities who are in these faces or doing all of these things and you say you know maybe we need to do is talk to the people who were actually doing this and not talk to them with a preconceived notion of what’s going on or what they’re experiencing or what may be happening but go in just as a hey could give us some information to tell us about what’s happening and I think we’re seeing more of that so there has been research on for example like barebacking and there’s been research on sex workers experiences and there’s been research on sort of the the spiritual some of the spiritual Connections in the spiritual extremes that can be experienced through extreme SM activities light hookah coals and those kinds of things so we’re seeing more and more of that happening where people who are actually in these groups are part of the subcultures are also crossovers into the academic life and we’re just seeing an amazing amount of research that starting to Bubble to the surface and get a little bit of space. I think this research has been getting done for quite a while but it can be really hard to get it published because some of the academic Publishers don’t want to hear about it and I want you to my is any of these things so if they publish something on it they want to be really careful so with our journal and with some of the other journals out there we’ve been able to bridge. Cap and actually be able to show some I feel like more authentic stories well absolutely will now in this world have so many The Gatekeepers being dissolved by the power of the internet I feel like you know there’s a lot of bad journalism or untrained journalism so there’s got to be a lot of bad or untrained or Incredible or uncredible research but maybe it’s the methodology that can be what’s the word sort of feel like I could imagine what as you were speaking I was imagining will wouldn’t it be great to train the you know that like the anthropological participation observation ethnography kind of model but if you were to train if you were coming from that subculture and you wanted to sort of document your tribe and produce your own ethnography kind of amongst your friends kind of tabulate experiences and collect notes insured compare notes is there was you recommend any kind of Crash Course doing data collection for different types of research paper I’m doing ethnography in the field and sort of how that works and how you can sort of pull everything together there’s a really good little guidebooks you know a quick online search for for some of these guys are out there and ask her if she is amazing stuff I love doing a photography by the way I think it’s an incredible tool that doesn’t get use nearly enough and and it got a lot of researchers a colleague of mine she recently did a photographic ethnographic working with lgbtq Foster Youth and homeless Youth and kind of went out gave them all cameras and said take photographs of Your World of your life of who you are, and they did a whole art show you know like found a gallery in Downtown LA and just played everyone’s photographs and and you know really got people connected to them and seeing them as people who have life experiences and they’re not just sort of a category of disadvantaged kids so yeah I think there’s there’s an easy guide books out there just like a quick you can find some quick little things of how to do ethnography and how to do that and but I think a lot of that to starts with her own storytelling so things that you do and things that others do and and all the bloggers out there and everything of these are all forms of ethnography relay yeah that’s cool it’s just that it’s exciting and hopeful cuz I feel that I’m at a point where I’m doing kind of pseudo-scientific Rogue radical research that’s way too far out for any government agency or any academic institution to touch with a ten-foot pole so it’s it’s kind of on me and my colleagues and friends 2 do this sort of underground research but then hope that it it’s done in a way that it can be respectable or it can be legitimated later you know but it is probably good to do what you’re suggesting and actually have some some templates for collecting the data that mean okay here’s what would our experiment yielded and here’s the methodology in the procedure and you can test it on your own Hardy or lab or whatever replicate what you’ve done and so can you give enough information that would allow somebody else to replicate and get similar results in their own place or find totally different results which is also fascinating injured and interesting and yeah and I think that’s really I mean that’s science that is science Sciences pushing boundaries and science is you now let’s try a new thing and see what happens and science is telling a new story or New Perspective of a story and you know I think that that’s been lost over the past many years Society The Sciences inquiry science is asking questions and wondering why thing happens and how something happens and trying to figure that out and I think that we’ve sort of collectively as a larger society have sort of lost that Focus write the word crowdsourced crowd-source funding crowdsourced ideas and editing and an art I mean you were talking about that at that photo gallery exhibit and that’s a great example if you would call that a crowd-sourced ethnographic oh yeah photojournalism nice oh yeah that’s cool that’s that’s exciting time so I’m also wondering now do you have do you do you or your organization the Center provide any kind of consulting services or any kind of where you could be hired or you could be sort of commissioned to do research or to consult on Research I don’t know that we’re I don’t know that anybody is really hired to do research cuz wouldn’t it be fantastic if someone will pay for that but that doesn’t happen if we do get hired as consultants for a variety of things so either individuals within the organization or the collective organization May consult on certain projects or consult on like creative curriculum for a particular thing and we have individuals who are consulted on court cases and I’m legal issues so so there’s a lot of that we also get hired by professionals like to teach professional workshops on various topics so that happens as well because we’re a nonprofit although those things are often we you know ask for fee cuz usually the people who were asking for these services are people who can pay for it but what going out to the schools we’re going to colleges in touch or we have a student group asked us to come and do something with them or like what you know we go to somebody’s community of answer something we may ask for an honorarium but we’re going to do this stuff for free so we really depend on our donors and our contributors and the people who support us to kind of give us the funding that we need in order to do what we want to do and and to publishing and all the other stuff so our journals available for free most of our Outreach staff and education program is all for free so yeah a lot of what we do depends on donations as opposed to people actually hiring us officially to do something right on that sounds like a healthy well-rounded multi Revenue stream nonprofit you’re definitely fulfilling your mission in so many beautiful dimensions and I’m just really happy to know that we’ve connected to some really feel better about living in the world with you more offline 2 just to explore some of these Consulting opportunities that you have and see what we’re about and all of that stuff were completely volunteer so none of us are paid for what we do I don’t run a paycheck nobody wants a paycheck that’s completely volunteer and yeah we’re just we’re just trying to let you know we just try to bring it enough funds to keep going and to keep doing what we’re doing and to expand so we’re actually going to be expanding our face-to-face education program out to Chicago over the next few months so Craig can you do that that’s well thank you so much that’s great I feel like it’s it’s really refreshing to to hear that there are people out there who are so dedicated to the cause that it’s that you did not just going to slam the door in your face if you don’t write a check if you know the first five minutes if you’re not going to bill me for this podcast interview right now about an hour into it is do you have a sort of committee or task force or team or just even a person who is either because they are a trauma Survivor or because it’s just near and dear to their hearts whatever reason is there you do consent workshops in self-defense or rape and assault prevention and any any more of the or any any of the sort of preventative and treatment kind of education unpreparedness we do have programs around consent we don’t really specifically talk about self defense or or right prevention in the standard sense so we don’t really talk about here’s what you can do to prevent being raped we talked about here’s what you can do to not rape someone because really this is not on the victim this is on the perpetrator but we also talked about you know here’s other ways that you might think about your sexual self and your identity in the power dynamics that you may interact with and find consensual outlets for some of your interests and behaviors and the citiz and you know we talked about a wide range of those things so it would be great if the people who are doing the Rape Crisis counseling and who are just in the trenches of dealing with battered women and in and going in and and doing you know investigations to catch meant to prosecute the perpetrators of all ages if they were I would let it would be great if in it you know in a perfect world they were seeking you all to educate themselves on better prevention and better version or diversion from the criminal whole that the response like they’re coming as the First Responders two incidents that would have been prevented by a proper education on all sides right and we do have we do have information so some of our researchers and and because we have people who are social workers who have conducted research through us who have published on how to do how to have a sex positive approach to handling victims how to have a sex positive approach to handling offenders and that these approaches can really help reduce crime can reduce negative stigma can reduce it comes cool is that would that be on your website or at some if I if I can follow up with you later cool okay well alright I feel like it’s this is yes. A real blessing and I just want to thank you again for your time and generous sharing of great info so with that said do you want to give the website and any other maybe upcoming events or anything else you’d like to promote and the website is positive sexuality. Org journal and that’s Journal of positive sexuality. Org we have our anniversary party coming up this July so if you want to be invited and want to be a part of that anniversary party will be a fundraiser you can contact me at Emily Emily at positive sexuality. Org or you can go to our website and put in your email address and then you’re on our newsletter list and you’ll get information through our newsletter about our party and we’re hoping we’re putting together an academic conference for next year so look on our website check things out if you go to sex pause khan.com so s e x p o s c o n. Com there’s going to be updated information they’re probably starting in the next couple of weeks for our positive sexuality conference coming up in 2018 in Burbank all right that’s very exciting thank you again yeah that’s me alright thank you so much again and I will hopefully I’ll be in touch soon thank you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite sex if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at kontrapunkt. Com Thomas gay

Wisdom Teachings for Sexual Healing with Yalila Espinoza PhD TPP89


Yalila PicIn this episode I’m joined by Yalila Espinoza, one of my most revered counselors and mentors in the field of psychedelic shamanic sexual healers and researchers.

She was first on the podcast in episode number 4, where we talked about how to take a clinical approach to psychedelic sexual healing modalities.

In this episode she shares her personal story of healing and transformation with plant medicines and tantra as well as wisdom teachings to help both seekers and practitioners on their paths of healing.

Please visit her website at:

About Yalila:

As an integrative health advisor and speaker, I guide leaders to manage their energy for innovative change in their romantic and business relationships. I have invested the last 15 years to weaving my PhD research results, trainings with mentors, and client feedback into my SOMA & YES on-line programs. I utilize solution focused tools, plant teachers, and life coaching skills in my practice with individuals and organizations. You have the opportunity to:

Release misaligned stories and perceptions.
Remember to listen and trust your body.
Revitalize your connection with nature.

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 89 I am here with you Lila Espinosa who is one of my first counselors and mentors on my path towards really trying to figure out how to alchemize Cynthia genic shamanic Neo shamanic ceremony and ritual and ethics and container sort of best practices with a clinical perspective as well on that and also the the sexual healing in the Baton tricks and weaving all of those things together in a way that would be you know something you could write a scientific white paper about as research and so you know the first entered the first guest I had on a podcast starting it all off with you either where we we talked about I sort of clinical approach to sexual predation and the use of sacred plant medicines and ceremonial containers to shed light into the astral planes were a lot of this sort of negative energetic parasitism is happening for a lot of people and how we can start to modernize our tactics and I was very influenced by your work you Lila as having seen some of your videos online and we consulted a bit and then we’ve just been yeah on Parallel paths have been a couple of your workshops over the years and have just kind of watched you were offering Blossom more and more and just there’s so much beauty that you have to offer but I really would love to have you just take a lot of time sharing your whole story is really amazing and really humbling and then we can talk more in detail about what you’ve been up to and what you’re planning so people can connect and really hold that to get continuing kind of omage and attribution you know I really have to say I bow down really deep because I could say in a lot of ways I might not even be walking the Earth right now if it wasn’t for some of the wisdom that you have collected in that you are in the shared with me so you know what a powerful medicine so thank you for that again and please sell yeah go ahead and really beautiful to see your pass blossom in witness your transformation and its energies always moving and dancing between you know people and so it really energizes me also to see yourself and other people expanding and moving the the division forward collectively we will we will be stronger and more Innovative together so yeah thank you and I love how you you know open up the space to share a story and you know recently I’ve been thinking about like what is my sister and how do I even express it differently now than it maybe I would have 3 or 5 years ago you know that people watching YouTube videos of me giving presentations that I could debit conferences and one thing that I’ve noticed is how I am now feeling more transparent and comfortable and really sharing my story in a more intimate way and you know that it’s really important to do that because people have have come into my path and see that they’re sharing a lot of Shame and guilt and confusion the more that I can be honest about you know where it come from it just like puts and he’s in a lightness into did the exploration that we can have together and so you know really looking at the bigger picture and my mission being to really put my focus and my my love into reconnecting I’m humans with nature and so that we can learn like how to be nurtured by nature and really seen our bodies as supremely intelligent and the temples of you know so much information and and and also you know the secret Temple or I’m Sexual Energy exchanges and of course you know learning at with the plant teachers and other kinds of psychedelics that really have shown me many different dimensions in terms of what that means to be a sexual being you know so I really bout to put solve it the plants and sea of trees and you know calls and also human beings who have been my teachers and mentors for sharing their love with me so that I’m able to return and exchange the energy and transmits you know whatever would be helpful and useful for people so that being said that I definitely encourage whoever is listening to this to relax and and really find their Center in in their body and enlist in with their whole body and really it don’t take in what resonates and then just leave whatever doesn’t in and so that just again puts like more of like a relaxation and to the discussion and it is severe it can be very intense for people in fairy you know it’s it’s it’s critical I think for a lot of Our Lives actual aspect and yet you know some people will we’re all at different places right sofa to respect each individual where they are and that you know we’re going to find a way differently and that’s wonderful you know different path leading to the remembering our own truth and so you know from me in a really seen how the sexual trauma that I fear in the physical trauma that I experience as a child you know being raised in different foster homes and then luckily be adopted into more of a stable family and you don’t now seeing the effects of that that wounding that happened young really of the sea plants have been trying main healer you know cuz one of the key aspects that I realize is that I did not trust you and being so after all that physical sexual abuse that was you know caused by those who are supposed to care for me and love me the ones that I wanted to trust to do that but that actually didn’t happen so there is a breakdown you know in in that bonding attachment. And so I didn’t trust humans and you know and I I was lucky enough to go into different modalities and Buddhism and you know city is psychotherapy and I worked in the hospital on the medical model for a while so I need to learning different modalities around health and wellness and yet it was really only when I started to drink various plants including Ayahuasca and peyote where I actually was able to surrender and you know and trust that they had my best interest at heart and that they were going to be healing and in such a deep and internal way that then actually help me to open up to trust humans again and you know some people would say well trust is an internal job like if you got to trust yourself and I heard that again and again you Lila just just trust yourself and then you’ll know how to trust that but for those that have come true sexual trauma and something that said that simply isn’t so simple you know so there’s these the you know the of experience and have built up and it’s almost like having like layers of like Linus Charlie Brown distorted lens through which we perceive reality and you know and so that actually can accumulate over the years because then we have the sexual trauma at one point they were making poor decisions later on around her sexuality and then again and adulthood and so were through this process of healing dissolving and smearing these layers of a misalignment right so it’s a no for me taken 10 years to actually be able to even have some sense of what is real you know and how do I feel my body in a full way how do I see my body as a sacred Temple and then remembering and then forgetting again and going to another lesson of like not treating myself while or not treating someone else well and be reminded and going to another layer of of that learning and clearing the wounding and and be coming into until I’m in again so you know being very clear that everything is energy and just learning how I was exchanging my energy with other people and running my energy in my body you know all this the years of drinking plants and learning Tantra and you don’t having a wonderful sexual initiation experiences with different Ventures and and you know in a community so really having a variety of experiences that has led me to this place is like being more you know open and more like trusting that you know I will find my way and other people will find their way so it’s like a a softening you know softening and and being able to actually listen more to my body and to the energy of others so you know there’s there’s many aspects I would say in terms of my personal story of healing and the primary focus being returning back fully into my body this is what why do psychedelics help me to do is be fully again and my body instead of disassociated and Incredible Gift because I’ve chosen to be human in a body right now and so really to to learn how to fully live my life is for me to really fully be in my body and in cherish cherish all the different aspects of being in body that’s beautiful I totally share your sentiment and it is something that people take for granted and and neglect and misuse really there’s a deep humbling to be broken in these ways and then put yourself back together with the help of plants and all of the initiations you’re mentioning and that finding that trustworthy reputable support people supportive Community with with Integrity yeah that sounds beautiful and I have some questions for other talks you’ve given where I fill it would be really instructive to to touch on some things is it is it okay if I bought some high school okay so one of the things you mentioned in a previous talk is this idea that at some point in your sexual development your love life you felt that you would become a black widow that you would just kind of consume man in a way and I’m curious I think a lot of survivors end up either being hyper-sexualized or asexual some pretty extreme on the Spectrum so I’m curious if you could talk more about what it was what was your process or thought process or even like they’re over some people would say that it’s totally up to you know like you’re being possessed you that you’re you’re checked out of your numbed out so just to give people some check list of wow maybe I haven’t had abuse flashbacks but I’m patterning this Behavior so should I go get checked out you know by someone like you Lila who would be able to do a good diagnostic yes excellent question so I see it as in terms of our Sexual Energy the response from wounding which again you know people don’t need to necessarily perceive themselves as having sexual learning if they were sexually abused if there’s rape or whatever I see that special woman is actually present for a lot of us because it’s coming to know families incestral is societal wounding like so there’s all those layers which we can maybe disc you know in terms of for the energy of like either constricting and becoming asexual or expanding to the point of becoming over-sexualized you know I feel like this is a natural response to wounding or misaligned energy and so I noticed that you know I was constricted for us until I was twenty and then just came out of my shell and was you know I would say early 20s it’s actually responsible however I noticed that I I was I was feeling numb and I didn’t really know how to connect with my partners in a heart-to-heart level so I would I would enjoy sex and I could have you know a lot of sex and I can orgasm in all these things but it there was a sense of like this this fiery and animalistic kind of connection which is wonderful and its own but just that hurt connection was missing and therefore the death that I can actually go into with my partner was limited and so I remember being like 30 and being with a partner who out you know we were very much in love and living together and we would have sexual activities like together everyday and yet he once said to me you know I like where are you it feels like I’m like you’re you’re sort of acting in the role like a prostitute your sort of like going through the motions but I don’t feel you and that was a wonderful wake-up call because I was like oh like what am I feeling in this moment and then you know in my thirties like recognizing that you know in my earlier years I was actually had Jean at knee to feel in control and so the way that I express that need was to you no pick him a male just happened to be mad that I did this with and like have them as a at Target and so I was like I’m going to you know get that person and I’m going to let you know do this to them being a female it was somewhat easier to take that role because men didn’t feel threatened by me they’re actually very like awesome how refreshing that have a woman who looks like chases me and knows what she wants so I got a lot of positive feedback from that which fed to you no further choices in in in that area I would like the idea of conquering and so you know how I saw that as in some ways trying to balance out the the sexual disempowerment that I had felt before and you know really hurting myself and perhaps the other people at the same time in that it’s interesting that I actually chose man this is this is where I would say you know just wonderful fortune that at least I chose men that were kind and generous with me and actually loved me and wanted more from me than I was actually able to give so I would be the Runaway Bride in some ways I would start to get close to someone and then just take off very quickly and so that lasted like a trail of Partners didn’t like what what happened here like what I thought she was really amazing and we had a good connection and you know it was just seeing how my attachment the people was it was like ambivalent attachment so I’d be like come here to me I want you and then like push away I’m done and you know I feel like many of us have run into Continuum you know different layers of that kind of dynamic and so you know one of the things in terms of like self evaluation of like okay do I feel fully in my body when I’m with someone can i gaze with them you know when being sexually involved with someone you know what is my response like after what is my decision making and choosing a partner what is my response after you know why I have a sexual liaison with someone so just like tracking a when’s behavior is helpful and also asking for Reflection from partners and friends and family you know because I could not see what I was doing and you don’t having people share with me like how my behavior was affecting them you know finally having my mother say I cannot meet one more of your boyfriends are our mates because there’s so many of them and she would try and get attached to them and then they be gone so she’s like I can’t meet them anymore so that was again like oh okay what am I doing like why am I going through men like this and also you know that the term of Black Widow I felt like you know I will instead of an odd thing to reflect on but that I was almost like a nervous to actually go deeper with someone because I wasn’t sure what would happen to them you know like I wasn’t sure I could to fill the role of a loving partner in a sustainable way so I’d rather just like you know get in there and have like an intense experience and then you know shove them away for their own good kind of thing so it was a lack of self-love of self-worth you know not trusting myself and and also you know on the shamanic path about the whole other story because it can get very complicated when you’re learning different shamanic techniques when you’re an apprenticeship and involving the sacred plant medicine you know that our energies open up in a wavy become very sensitive and intake in a lot of energy of other people so you know that was a whole other phase of like actually helping me to be more aware of how I was exchanging my Sexual Energy in that pattern of hunting Men actually stopped you know after maybe four years in the past because I saw way more concretely and intensely the consequences of my behavior and of my decision-making and you know I say stop it did stop it and then I really went through a phase of like literally going along plant do you get this I think it was a. Of like three years where I didn’t have any sexual connection with anybody and that was bizarre for me so I feel like I really blast that I’ve had the experience of being very slow and quiet and you know focusing on my healing my body and my spiritual connection to very expensive and you know going to festivals and you know traveling and really being sexually open to what you know a lot of different situations it’s a long a long answer in your I’m kind of studying this more deeply now because it’s more it’s coming up for a lot of colleagues clients just in my ongoing research I just about the show something is really been hitting me hard that sits on the other end of the spectrum is is the is the the sort of from the I guess I will call it a form of side effects cursing or something where you know how many how many women out there who are overweight but say have made a decision in the childhood mind that Daddy will stop touching me if I become less attractive and it becomes a a way to just be armored in this so that you know there’s like a story that comes out if you could go back to yourself at that time what would you sort of prescribe you know now but in addition to the plants and everything but it’s far as just like a session a counseling session with someone this morning who’s a client you know we were I was basically sharing how you know there’s all these different layers of wounding such a wounding that happens right from birth and so no partly it you know we do the best we can to live through Transitions and yet it catches up to us right so there’s going to come a point has and being humans at most often we will wait for a crisis right to actually be mindful of what is the inner dialogue and how are we behaving and actually reach out for support and you know the crisis being either you know an accident and disease divorce you know where something else and so what I was saying it at this morning is that you don’t we have all these sexual transitions in our life that are not honored and so what if I were to go back to myself and you know I was 2520 you know I would say you know less take some time to honor where we’re at you know in and engage in some kind of ritual you tend to the the the energy body or physical body like 10 to the wounding like go to a repair process and you know not just with myself but with a can a counselor or you know of some kind of practitioner that that knows about sexual energy and and rituals and actually honor those pieces and bring back the pieces that have been torn away so they they called like Soul retrieval so many people are walking around out there whole soul and and no wonder we get into complex challenges and Chaos so really going to your post to mend this chair and bring back this piece of me in humidity in ritual and then be able to see more clearly and be able to actually learn better decision-making tools you know being able to actually be inspired to live differently or live in alignment you know with with our Purpose with our truth and so that would be something that I wish I had had and that I think that is extremely important on Asus I don’t like cultural level and in that really it’s it’s together it’s in community that we’re really going to heal and this will help to dissolve the shame and the secrecy you know that’s so many people carry and that actually is so tax on our bodies and psyche right and so that’s really the the Crux of how is it that we then reach out to addictive you know substances are addictive patterns or you know just knowing we don’t want to do it but we’d end up doing it because we’re trying to cope the best we can with what we have an end you know part of it are our best selves or not even like with us you know they’re connected with you know the family trauma than sestrel you know lineage and so I’m just you know about down to everyone who who is finding their way the best way they can write without the support they need and we are very industrious and tenacious of beings and any in really seem like wow we could as a society really brings so much more I’m healing and playfulness you know that’s the other thing healing doesn’t have to necessarily be like terrifying you know terrible process healing can be I’m so liberating you’re asking me is actually the suffering that we carry and suggest really be supported by Community to step through the threshold going through the wounding you know being held by love and safety that you know once we’re through a tree like oh wow you know I can’t believe how different I feel you know I can’t believe that I made it through you know so that’s part of the initiation piece that the initiation but you know by definition going through the threshold you know so being one way of being and then you go through no Dark Night of the Soul or whatever and then you come out and actually shedding you know the layers of Illusion and because remembering who you are again and then you are a whole person right and then the initiation peace being that you know once you’re through that threshold your health and community and actually honored for who you are as as just simply you as an infected being the pit stop for the Soul II it to have helped achieving or accessing sexual wholeness before you go out and get yourself in a bunch of trouble with your skewed what you’re taking from childhood in and so now it’s it’s it’s sad and ironic but really what used to be a a rite of passage into the joy of experiencing being a grown-up and having a wonderful array of sexual experiences that are culturally sanctioned and and diverse in fulfilling a nurturing and all these things that it used to be in our perspective and ecological perspective on on sexual initiation in our ancestral past before patriarchal civilization was say and now it’s it’s sad because so many of us want to restore initiation but really we’re not starting with the Clean Slate or not starting with the healthiest late we’re talking about extreme I mean it would be initiation into recovery from your sexual wounding throughout childhood whether it’s just circumcision and whether it’s Billboards whether it’s sexual trauma and abuse so you’re definitely one of the most qualified people in my network of fellow pewter practitioners Scholars and researchers and so I would really love to hear you take plenty of time to sort of fleas she is to take a step back seeing the bigger picture of seeing this all his energy and you know in terms of like an ideal initiation ritual you know first I feel like there needs to be so much more education around Sexual Energy in general and you know it’s it’s interesting how when I first started offering Pro sexual initiation programs that many men you no say in the thirties and forties would be put off and not reach out because they’re like no I’m not sexually when did you know I wanted to see themselves that way and that’s what it’s really a Charged area so I know she had to take stuff and focus on just teaching some of the basics about energy and communication so that’s like the first level that I feel as a society we need to focus on and that Ashley is refer impossible because it’s not so threatening by the mainstream authorities or Educational Systems you know so I feel like it is possible and that waited for me the important thing is to learn how to meet people where they’re at so they feel safe and taking the first step so you know I started off being like everyone needs sexual initiation and amazing if like in their teens they could like choose you know how they wanted to have their ritual whether it was riding a horse in the middle of a field with a community sending around like latinas easing community in Europe just Fanta I interviewed been actually and I was like yeah beans and yeah it just seems so weird and whatever so I’m like okay I’m going to you know start really simple and you know it can be as simple as person wherever they live you know if it’s a small town or they don’t have much money it’s like the first step you know get a few friends together in your home and have the focus Beyond sharing your first sexual experience storytelling a storytelling night you know could be in your home or Community Hall Road ever and get people together to share stories and sound so simple and it is so powerful just have enough space to share one story and then seeing how their similarities you know with other people in that Circle can be extremely healing right so there are ways to actually connect with each other and you don’t go through initiation that doesn’t have to be some like strange far-out shamanic you know kind of situation it can be Simply Be witnessed you know in in Sharing one’s true story and feeling safe enough you know it to do that you know it and any other hand like if if there is a potential for you know fundraising for a different heiner complementary sexual education program that would be where I would focus my energy in terms of bringing back and did the initiation through transition you know when we have a baby you know different cultures celebrate in different ways and so I’m just speaking in terms of what I know of in North America do you know also bringing circles and people together you know after people have a miscarriage you know after people go to menopause maybe for men you know their sexual desire their sexual functioning changes you know is it possible to bring people together and just like say hey this is what’s happening to me let through it could be through you know I sound healing or making or just move dance or moving or something where it’s just like okay here’s where we’re at let’s move the energy so that one person is not carrying it you know all the Thousand becomes like a heavy burden right so you know how beautiful is the indigenous traditions where they actually brought the perpetrator or you’re the one who is harming others are causing friction in a community and how they bring them in Into The Circle of Care and you know they have people there to hear their story and and to love them up you don’t have to find a way of treating the issue is like a collective issue so so now you know doing that free app for people where there is there is a movie criminal activity or heal people who are really harming each other in a physical way but we can bring people together where you know it’s is folks who are carrying the shame or guilt of something that they’ve done and being able to hold everyone in in that Circle and that alone can bring such healing in the community that I’ve heard of some communities that are able to do this and so many more people so that they can hold this face right it would be beautiful to have the academic background and if you don’t mind it be cool to spend a few minutes actually trying to model and chart out a bit what some of these Cycles are cuz you just mentioned one that that I had never seen a community address before the idea of the transition of male menopause they call it sometimes you know for me there was no there was no guidance around my first wet dreams my first directions my first ejaculations my first experiences that were consensual cuz there were a lot that weren’t before that you know where I was abused in if we kind of map this out there is really there should be songs for everything they should be songs and dances and of course herbal preparations for different things because one of the blessings that I’ve had in my life is to go through a nine-month sexual initiation program myself because I’m like wait a minute I’m like studying this you know doing PhD research in it I’m like talking about it at conferences and I had to be hung I humbled myself and I’m like wait a minute in my own you no initiation progression and so I was like I need to go through my own initiation and so taking at 9 months in community going to different rituals learning how to hold space excetera and one of the activities that I assumed was like a no-brainer or is like it’s not going to mean much for us to write a letter A love-letter to the opposite gender and then also the next step was to write a love letter to are under it was just so wonderfully liberating you know and so like you know I’m popping out for someone say going to still like Ashley simply write the letter and then in a circle in a circle of people you know of safety and in love is for people to actually read their letters you know with with with in front of everyone and and and what it means to then as a man like reflecting on where you come from and then what it means to actually move forward you know it and in the blessings of the the transformation of one’s body once taking Septra to be witnessed by women so I think the two often a couple turns to each other and like things that they can actually figure things out themselves and actually feel sexually you know stimulated + sexually you know that piece and you know just care for buy one other person and I I feel most often is impossible so it’s really to have a man may be going to these changes and then in the circle like hearing the reflections of other women and like what what that means for women collectively and for the Man 2 leave that but wow there are blessings in here I am still loved if you know I’ve kind of lost her you know just connected to the my Hughes where I was very Tetra but to have that reflection not only for one other people can be extremely powerful boosting interesting topic and territory that I haven’t heard discussed a lot and I like where this is going and I wanted to share a little bit more ask a couple things if that’s okay on this topic so have you heard of something called the Coolidge effect it was it was disgusting insects it Don and I’m going to I’m going to not even attempt to try to tell the story of where it came from but it is an interesting phenomenon that has been discovered in nature and it’s been extrapolated to two human males but basically there’s a high level of interest that starts to wane sort of naturally really at any age in a relationship separate from the timing of menopause but let’s just say sexual novelty wears off over time we will call the love curve or the honeymoon phase or whatever but it’s actually physiological kind of pattern and then in farm animals it was very obvious what are breeding that there’s a massive performance a sort of it was the Fountain of Youth for males is sexual diversity and Novelty and so if a couple is monogamous together for years and years and years and not acknowledging that that is a natural factor in an actual curve they could be setting themselves up for a lot of suffering and it’s it’s sort of a I guess a scientific rationale to be more open-minded when it comes to sexual expression and so some people can say oh you’re just a scoundrel and you just want to have an excuse to cheat or something I’m not into you know committed monogamous relationship so I’m not I’m not pushing those boundaries but I’m just worried we’re looking at the gender the discourse and everything and really that the opposite side of that though is that well if you’re a woman and you want your man to be hard all the time you know and he can’t do it or he’s bust some in best in you or insects in general or whatever then if you had an open port to go in and seek Young Bucks you know if a couple with aging together and they said you know what honey you’re not doing it for me the way you used to I’m not doing it for you the way you used to and even Gary Noll said and he’s a you know he’s like a a researcher of all things Health and Wellness in physiology sexuality and he said answering a question for this older couple what do we do if we’re not you know into each other too much what I said bring it bring in a twenty-year-old into the bedroom and see what happens you know interesting if you think out of the box and there is more community and access where were acknowledging that there’s East natural cycles but if you’re really not you don’t have to be or this is my offering for something to you too to address and talk about is dressing U Cycles is if there weren’t such if you weren’t so imprisoned in this constructive monogamy and saying you don’t love me if you’re not attracted to if you know what I mean that’s just not fair it’s not fair on either side so what are your thoughts on on kind of I have had many clients you reach out for this reason of lack of sexual connection lack of interest on meth head couples comes to me and you know honestly I feel like I’m still be getting on this I do and so I’m very mindful of like what you know that I’m still learning still learning and I was blessed to have time in the San Francisco Bay Area to actually go pretty deep into educating myself you know academically and personally in terms of the polyamory relationships visiting different communities really getting a sense of how are people making decisions and going to their lives and end in the different phases and say the first thing I have to say is that each person really is responsible for finding their way that is an alignment with their true so you know polyamory monogamy whatever in between it all depends on the person and the couple right so I don’t I think what works for some people may not work for others and you know I bow down to all the couples who are able to be married for 30 plus years and feel that great love for each other and their sexualize may be different from what I want or think is good but they have deep love and they found their way and also bad on to those couple of so you know have open relationships and and find their way into greater love and deeper love and you know so I feel like if we can talk more openly about our needs and what was happening and have it lasts of a taboo then we will feel more inspired and and safer to Ashley Explorer what are these different options you know when one studies no different sexual Traditions there are many kinds of permutations that communities have tried and have worked for them you know how many different kinds and that and that it’s some of them have been shocking baby to contemporary Western Minds some not some they’re open and they really want to try it on. So I feel like it’s really the first step is to Johnny no one’s needs and to learn how to communicate them and then to be supported in Exploration I just got a big gray my know cuz I feel like what this could become really is is is a theme park of sorts where you could have some sort of safe container to a lot of people would be if he used to cuddle party kind of motif where there’s no swapping of fluids no risk of really any kind of you know transfer transmission of disease and if it was kind of rotational more like speed-dating you know people weren’t necessarily get attached but the idea that let’s have a this is how they did it in the South American tribe were they had what they called shared fraternity and they practice sexual Hospitality let’s let’s be adults Who Made Who do make believe and what would it feel like to have a visitor come and have your wife and your best friend’s wife fighting over which of them is going to be offered voluntarily with with Glee to the guests to be the the Ambassador representing the health of the community and possibly to increase the diversity of the gene pool so there’s an ecological population ecology Dimension to some of these customs and then you might discover hey we should start swinging because this is a shih tzu immersion into what were really not even allowed or dare to even imagine anything different and I’m going to love the time so I guess the problem is to experience out of the western box are really risky and dangerous and that’s a problem for high as you mention that we are living in a particular time in North America where we have the privilege of actually speaking about this and exploring it and really be aware of all those that do not have that safety and where there is a lot of sexual violence that is still going on so that my point being that really really needs to be so much mindfulness and creation of safety because what one person would think is like an exploration you know testing out you know could really be harmful for another person and and you know in terms of safe containers that you never know where sexual running lies and that it you know it’s really pertinent for those in the circle to have some train people who can hold space because you might innocently be going about experiencing then someone has a flashback or something happens you know and you want to be able to guide that person within the group to the the shore to the safety of the shore and if so yes I just really want to acknowledge all those that really have this desire to try out and explore and yet you know they’re there just it’s It’s tricky to to know how to feel safe with certain people and certain groups and you know one of the Prime examples is that you know with that I watch the ceremonies and other spiritual groups where women and men go for healing and exploration of you know the psyche and Consciousness and yet are sexually traumatized and you know I’m harmed and by the Healer by the skilled you know practitioner and yet now there’s another layer right of trauma and you know what does that mean for the community so it’s just a very concrete example of something that I’ve actually Whitney where you know you’re at you’re taking certain indigenous cultures and you’re trying to mix you know interweave different modalities and exploration and for the community to really talk about you no potential pitfalls and this is the way that we’re going to address them to keep everyone as safe as possible that’s that’s really thank you for that for being one of the good guys out there shepherding this experience of initiation I mean I was just yeah there’s is a shaman or the sorcerer are they a guru or the Predator I mean it’s and I’d like to think that just learning Tantra from women is 99.9% safest protection for anybody same thing probably with the medicines and I’m kind of always wanting to that made a joke recently I mean there’s a lot of men in Township who have just developed Powers let’s say the sexual powers and have the Shakti but are not really doing the Davey sadhna so maybe they’re not really getting a lot of direction from the from goddess about what to do with their multi-orgasmic prowess and so they just use it to become sex addicts into just conquer and colonize and build Empires and of broken hearts and an empty bank account send gossip in Madness and I feel my calling having been broken more as a Survivor I feel like I’d rather see a priestess class that oversees all of these things sex medicine Health power politics weapons land at Oracle Priestess class you know rather than being a compulsive with my sexuality I’m trying to actually facilitate this 64 yogini Mondello kind of just suppressed lineage of chocolate on show where they were figuring these things out and basically one of the most Valiant attempts to restore a deeper more Prime Bonnabel like matriarchy for all these to be for these powers to be interested in too so I guess I should ask you you know I know that you did that research I’d like it if you would talk about your your PhD thesis research which is a lot to do with this stuff and then we know what you’re seeing on the horizon of women taking these powers back and men being in service and volume down and you know building the infrastructure for women to run temples and really be the trustworthy trusted class with all this stuff wonderful wonderful vision and you know first I want to say that I can only speak for myself in that I trust myself and I’m certain I trust myself the whole safe space for people and I still have my lundi that I am dancing with and and learning how to honor the Shadow and and weave it in with the light and that only reason I think I’m able at this point in my life you served in in such a comprehensive way is because I actually have experienced feeling like the victim you know feeling like a Survivor experience feeling like the perpetrator as well you know so and also the Savior so I feel like you know opening myself up so you really dive deep into those archetypes and learning how to weave them these different parts within myself so that their allies and actually stronger to be in service is is that really the only way that I that I personally can can make offering so just just a note that yeah beautiful vision and that women still with the routing can be skewed in the way that they also offer things in and and I love how you said Sandman hold the infrastructure and and be in service that way for the women to really take the leadership in in communities because we do need everyone involved and in order to shift the Paradigm so you know in terms of the PC research I focus on North American women who have been in I watch the ceremonies and actually involved in plant deetta’s which is based in the vegetative leave Smosh I’m shamanic tradition and you don’t feel free to go to my website youtube.com y a l i l a.com to get more info on that I don’t know but it is a it’s a practice that the women that interviewed have been involved in I’m basically focusing on their sexual healing Journeys and how the erotic energy of plant features help to inform them of remembering of themselves as erotic beans and really seeing that these plants in body in a masculine energy you know I’m showing us how these intelligent life-forms are actually holding and and merging these energy can then be replicated in the human reality so that was really beautiful Journey both personally and academically and you know then really seeing how I could best yo go to my own sexual journey and mentioned you know having to really look at myself honestly and go to my initiation and continue to do that you know to really fill in the gaps in and take back the missing pieces in my life and then how to offer that for other people and what I noticed a lot of folks would come to me for concert teaching what was interesting is that we actually had to go through a 6-month process just to prepare themselves to actually clear at some of the misaligned energies and being around you know the family special piece that’s often missed to even get to the country breathing the kind of Lenny you know techniques etcetera because it’s sort of like you know the new shamanic and effectiveness of let’s learn Tantra a way of life you know how we’re relating to life, people forget that they actually know it and embodied way it’s necessary to go through these first steps and so I found that I was actually wanting to jump into an area that people weren’t ready for so then I created the sexual initiation program and you know basically focusing on the seven energy centers and having and different rituals for each Center and that could take quite a while for some people you know there is a lot of material there I actually want and are ready to go into it so I backed off from from that offering and actually created to other programs that are more of an introductory level to get people prepared for the sexual initiation program and one of them is like basic information and it’s called the yes penny for your energy systems and like basic information to teach people like just reflecting notice what’s happening in their body and in their relationships with other people and nature so you know starting off with the very basic teachings on energy really focused on you know people who may be brand new to this area because I was having living in the San Francisco Bay Area I had a lot of clients who came from the business World from the tech world and this is all very new to them like you ask them what are you feeling right now and they’re like I don’t know or like imagine yourself as a tree in there like I don’t know how to do that are really tweak every different language and you really getting learning how the techies think you know and different layers of structures and learning how to actually educate and transmit the information so that they can get it and then also creating a program called soma and this is focus again on sometimes people are not ready to go on a psychedelic Journey they’re not ready to run eyes Alaska ceremony I’m not a I’m not a Ayahuasca Pusher you know where so I can talk, being an introductory level of teaching for people to learn about plants and trees in their own backyard and that there are allies that are around us at all times including simply connecting like walking barefoot on the grass or on the other Senator you know Earth their ways of connecting and actually healing our bodies and psyche that are very simple and so creating a program where people can actually whatever they live you know these are both online programs to wherever they live being able to learn some tools around alter building connecting with elemental allies meditation embodied practices you know starting with the basics and really the key being that there in community and so that they’re actually sharing their Journey they’ve been able to like your stories and information with each other because I’m one person I don’t I can’t hold everything or know very much so really having the support of the other intelligent beings in the group and that this will help prepare you know people who may feel isolated you know me feel new to this area that they can actually start the conversation you know within themselves within their Partnerships and in their community and then learned that the contract teachings you know you could say that some of the material is Tantra but you know as I said before like we’re getting in the way and making it accessible to people has been my focus on this site I feel what’s so missing and so wrong is that it should be more like what were used to with The Apprentice of but Save The Karate Kid kind of coach Phil template where you don’t even know you you’re just doing something that focuses your attention you’re doing the wax on wax off your learning A movement but you were sort of being invited to Pond you know riddles even and it’s not just you don’t just buy the whole package and get it all and have all of the secrets on your lap as long as it takes you to download the file you know it’s it’s kind of be more metered out and some people aren’t they have to be you know let’s say restricted from access to things that they’re not morally or intellectually or spiritually capable to to to do right with so I really appreciate that you’re that you’re developing these these in these areas where where is a lot of other than you know on structures that say maybe don’t have his as many as well-rounded of a perspective is this is a you have everyone’s doing great work I believe I love you with all my other guests are doing but I I got to say again I mean for me and my mission and what I’m hoping to create in the world really you were one of the five salute you very highly because this is what I was when I’m thrilled to hear about is this you know very very soft full careful, painstaking meticulous teasing out of of all these different micro wounds and how we address them and this is great and wonderful I really appreciate that you’re in adult kindergarten with all this stuff as you know so we got to be humble with his with his power and we’re so far from the the Grandeur of our ancestors in in the shamanic traditions and in the country traditions and so you know they were holding lineages passing-down things really keeping this fabric together in a life spanning generations and they were even in there in a lot of their minds coming back to do more work over the course of multiple lifetimes in trying to pick up where they left off and you know that’s a way different bird and Andres mobile of responsibility with power than most people have who just want to be out there playing with matches you know putting don’t they don’t know what kind of curse is there putting on people what kind of spell they’re casting in and I’m one of them to it’s a very you know humbling kind of the thing to see how many people have wanted to just be benevolent altruistic good not manipulative not self-serving these are the first and you know what I’ve felt is extremely important for me to have compassion for myself as an adult you know kindergarten Explorer and compassion for others and as you mentioned there are many paths people teaching in different ways and that as we received this Transmission in such and such a fast way compared to you know our ancestors use the wisdom you know Basket open is that we really have patience with ourselves and others and compassion because we are all learning we we’ve had a he’s missing piece you know in our Evolution that that’s been suppressed you know and so now we’re opening up and we’re learning how to navigate this information the power and you know really proud of my focus being also with these programs to talk about leadership so what does it mean when we’re gaining this information and power and how to actually being authentic and body leaders you know so that were in service in in the highest and deepest way possible like that’s in alignment in a with what is need it in the grander scale So yeah thank you for for mentioning that awesome so what do you want to tell us that before we wrap up finally again your website and maybe some things you have planned I definitely want to just have a clearer sense of if I let a listener who wants to get started with you what it what are all the options and what is there to choose from and then from my perspective I’m just curious what you have planned and you know I’ve been doing a lot of Media stuff and feel like that’s kind of my calling and I’m wondering if you have what kind of media projects you might have for his 2 to look for to look forward to well it’s interesting because I feel like the creative juices are flowing very beautifully and me these days and I have so many ideas in my task these days is to stay focused on a few offerings and to learn about timing so yeah the media have all kinds of interest you know just and I’m really excited so I will wait to talk about those maybe next year you know really looking at the bigger picture and terms of what I see in offering the in the best way possible for me and and the people that are drawn to me is to focus on integration and so I’ve an accessibility so the the easiest way to get connected my website you Lila. Com way e a l i l a.com so the first step in the easiest way is there is a psychedelic integration monthly group so anyone that’s interested in psychedelic I and integration he’s able to I’m go to the EULA. Com members page and sign up and it’s all online there is a community at Facebook Community Forum there’s you know I’m going to be giving teaching video teachings every month and it’s an easy way and you know for someone to put their foot their toe in the water kind of thing in connecting with me and in the community just really noticing that one of her people will come in and out of circles and Retreats and programs but then not hearing from them again and I I just adore Folks at that I need and being able to serve and I’m just like so curious like what are they up to and and knowing that they have so much to offer community so that’s the first thing psychedelic integration online members group then I mentioned the two programs the Soma three-month online program and then the six-month Yes program again you can find info on my website now the I do give Retreats I’m limiting them to for a year and so having a retreat in British Columbia wine in California when in New York and one in Hawaii I just got back from Hawaii and let it be my first Retreat there which was amazing I just the energy there so really trying to focus on those four areas and then the rest of my focus on the in-between phase so really giving people you know tools to integrate well and to step into greater leadership role so you know I give private sessions in person mostly online because folks are coming from different different areas and I live in but finding a way to actually make it accessible for for a lot of different people so so that’s that’s what I’m up to I do have some projects that I spending more time in this year that are exciting that that again I’m going to keep it a little bit quiet right now I’m because I feel like I’m pregnant with them and so just want them to to grow in my belly a little bit more and get stronger but I do look forward to sharing with you again in the future and for the first time ever and now 89 episodes but I feel like I’m going to make it a tradition there’s the spirit guiding I think this our knowing each other and I think it would be great to ask you know that this listenership is growing and I feel like I’m not just a voice in the wilderness I’m curious if you have any needs that you’re looking for in terms of anything I mean it could be anything but I feel like now whoever is really moved by this conversation with you Lila and wants to not only access their services or maybe if if they have a skill or a physical object or resource how how can people Supply you and make your mission that much easier if you know of and just don’t be shy could be anything be given a course of beautiful thank you for the opportunity and I love how you say Mission and really it’s whoever shares of mission in reconnecting with the intelligence of you know other than human beings and the intelligence of our bodies first of all and let whoever I’m also feels passionate about the role of leadership a new paradigm a leadership right now you know just looking at the political changes and and all kinds of changes that we’re going through and that more people are really needing to take responsibility and step up you know to really bring and their gifts and shine all right now so anyone who feels that calling I definitely welcome the connection and you know for those who have skills in technology marketing building my weaknesses I would love to connect with you and you know I’ve been blessed with a lot of beautiful people right now who are training with me and I have an awesome assistant right now so really at who are people who are interested in working on a team you know collectively to nurture you know that this Mission and let’s see also you know anyone who is passionate about a holistic health and wellness like even practitioners are skilled in different modalities I’m really interested in you no First Nations health and wellness the are Vedic you know health and wellness Western medicine you know I came from the hospital and medical model and see the power of them of that knowledge not wanting to Discount that you know that whole model but really want me to bring the best out of that model and and also of course that the shamanic Technologies and how to merge shamanic Technologies with the modern Technologies in in business and in artificial intelligence actually I’m interested in that area as well so really are harnessing the best of technology so all of those you folks who are tech-savvy very interested in connecting with you and in general you know anyone that feels like it would be great for me to connect with someone in your community you know I trust your intuition and your inspiration so please reach out you Lila. Com and the email is support at you Lila. Com so thank you so much for opening that that that the possibilities for a for all of us that have cilia one last thing I would add to that it said you were a very highly skilled and trained really unique skill-set for clinical research if if so if you want to talk a little about that cuz that’s my dream if anybody’s out there and want to help me and her going to sort of follow up on where we started you know a few years ago with some visioneering around what we would do to actually start ghostbusting perpetrators and healing on both sides of the victim perpetrator saying there’s some some clinical work to be done there so do you want to talk a bit about that such a great reminder thank you because I am a researcher at heart and I now have systems in place where I’m tracking information for all the people that are coming through programs do I need to do research yet so definitely anyone who is a writer a researcher who can collect data and collect stories and amalgamate them in a way that’s actually very accessible for folks out there I I have done quite a bit of research and academic writing and yet now I feel more inspired to to put my focus in other areas and Sophia connecting with those researchers and writers would be amazing and I feel like that is the beauty of transmitting information right not only to podcast and you know videos blogs Etc but the other really creating innovative ways to move this revolution you know forward would be really amazing is talk I’ve been waiting for a while and just for the right time seems to be now we both got a lot of beautiful things that I’m going on and so again I I just thank you so much for being there for me and my Dark Night of the soul of my my hour of need you know several years ago now and really it’s again a big thanks to you and homages and appreciation for helping to facilitate more success stories of recovery and I just can’t wait to hear what you have next in and we’ll definitely be in touch so thank you so much Aloha podcast please go to www. R2park.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple that provides ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at Township Park. Com Thomas Day

Seeking the Heart of Tantra with Nirmala Nataraj TPP57


Nirmala pic In this episode I am joined by Nirmala Nataraj. I discovered her great works in a search for a teaching on the symbology within the Kali Yantra and found her article.

She has graciously blessed the podcast by sharing her story of personal transformation through Tantra and Goddess Kali worship. She holds sacred space for me to share some of my revelations and research and generously provides validation of and guidance for many of my most controversial discoveries.

Together we weave a mutually affirming narrative of personal healing and spiritual growth through our devotion to Kali. We emphasize the need for preparation, care, and caution when approaching her might and magic. We also encourage listeners to find supportive fellowship as they rediscover and reinvent Kali’s vast primordial irrepressible nature.

Nirmala shares a description of the Kali Yantra and conducts a devotional guided meditation using the Yantra.

We close with a brief discussion on sexual healing and empowerment through tantra and she offers some great advice for individuals and couples to break through repressive cultural conditioning and reclaim the power and beauty of sacred love making.

Please connect with Nirmala and access her services via her websites:

About Nirmala:

I’m Nirmala Nataraj, a San Francisco Bay Area-based Desire Guru and Taboo Slayer (and you can find me at my day job here)!

Sacred Fire Desire Coaching is my way of connecting directly with those who want to embody their truth. My wish to expand people’s repertoire of tools and resources through creative problem-solving is paramount in my approach. I especially love to work with people to clear some of the obstacles that keep them from expressing their deepest truths—obstacles such as shame, past experiences of trauma, and the inability to embrace and integrate every last part of themselves.

For me, healing is something that happens when we are willing to wrestle our demons…and then become their friends (which also happens to be a recurring theme in my writing). I’m also interested in inspiring my clients to view relationships, intimacy, and sexuality as viable and rigorous paths to personal development and purpose.

My training background includes the OneTaste Coaching Program, the Co-Active Coach Training Program, and the Bay Area Nonviolent Communication (NVC) Immersion Program.

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear love his phone cover Township podcast episode number 57 I’m here with nirmala and we’re going to talk about goddess Kali and all of the beautiful magnificent ways that she’s entered our lives and given Direction and guidance and some of the Practical applications that we can all use to access her love and medicine and then we were just talking briefly about how apt it is that she was recently featured on the Empire State Building projected during a an endangered species slideshow production that that occurred and then at one of the Visionary artist Android Jones had a slide in there which is a beautiful collie face rendition and caused a bit of an uproar as you’d expect this is sort of a starting point to talk about this her she’s being called forth now to help us and if you don’t believe that you can look up the pictures didn’t see that you know it’s like the Batman signal or something so anyway that was my little brief intro and I normally would you please say thank you for joining us and please tell us about your background and in your path where to start my so first of all I I work I work pretty heavily with just what I consider the energy of desire and being somebody who’s been on a non dualistic tantrik pot for as long as I can remember and I grew up in a traditional Hindu household and both of my parents are from India and I was raised here so a lot of my own path has been about bridging cultural differences and really diving into the energy of what I see as the collective Shadow and for me desire is something that is really capable of helping us to heal from that split that we tend to have between masculine and feminine Darkness and Light and and I think that Kali is a really as it’s kind of emblematic of what it could look like when those when those pictures are heel and when the split is healed and we and we stopped being in conflict with ourselves and and so a lot of the work that I do is around healing our healing our connection with our sexuality healing our connection desire and my website is sacred fire coaching.com because because I do believe that our desire is the sacred fire that lives within us and it’s our responsibility as incarnate beings 210 that fire so that’s a little bit about 10 of the work that I do and I can talk a little bit more about that later but insurance if my own path I would I would say that it’s it actually comes from pretty ancient lineage and my family is from South India and there’s a long line of country cuz in the area both of my parents are from a lot of Hindu Tantra practice today can be found in South India and a lot of these practices are related to the 10 wisdom goddesses who are known as the Mojave Diaz and they’re very prevalent in a lot of different forms of Tantra and Kali is one of them so these goddesses are revered in South India and by far the most strongly maintain tan tradition in South India is his status Street as yet and she is Supreme goddess and a lot of practitioners in the street of your tradition including people in my family tends to be married householders and often there’s a family tradition of practice but being a woman is South Asian descent who was raised and the West I grew up in California back to Tantra has been its it happened been as direct it hasn’t been a part of this unbroken lineage and in fact I would say that that Tantra is still something that in in India in a lot of traditional Hindu family it’s really still seen as kind of a a dark path and there are still a lot of just as misunderstandings about Tantra abounds in the West on there’s a lot of misunderstanding about Tantra in the East and I think a lot of that comes from just you know Colonial attitude two words the way that the body and sexuality and certain spiritual practices were four kind of conveyed so a lot of I would say that a lot of Hindus in a lot of Indian people in general have kind of internalized those attitudes so so like I said before my path back to Tantra has a lot to do with my own exploration of desire and sexuality and desire and sexuality as a rigorous spiritual so I’ve always been interested in sex and sexuality and actually since I was very very young back when nobody in my family talks about it and if the same time because I I grew up in a household where devotion Devotion to god and goddess were really kind of a part of our daily existence I I was always in an environment that was very overly spiritual actually one of my earliest I wanted to be a nun and I wasn’t Christian nobody in my family was Christian but I remember just reading about female nuns and Mystics and being so drawn to this idea of devoting myself body and soul to God so I have always been on a path that I’ve considered devotional and that I’ve considered a path of surrender and that gradually grew into a worship of the dark goddess and all of her forms as mahakali as inanna Ishtar as as the Virgin of Guadalupe and that was actually really connected to my own discovery of feminism and goddess worship as a way of bringing the salmon in back into spiritual practices so so over time I was really interested in how the dark goddess encourages us to dissolve our boundaries between the sacred and the profane and I think that that’s what led me to Tantra and in addition a lot of my former work I used to be a Rape Crisis counselor and so I’ve worked with a lot of women who have felt just generally wounded and disconnected from their own essential sexuality and sensuality and a lot of my work has been without healing. Chasm and I for me working with collie and working with different forms of the dark goddess has been immensely healing I I really can’t even put that into words and end this this really comes from my own experience of how many women and it isn’t just women it’s also none how many of us have been wounded by a pervasive cultural attitudes about sex and sexuality and the sex is an extremely powerful force and the time because I knew this and they know it and and they work with it and incredible and hoping ways but sex is also something that’s a power that can be misused and as women we we often use that power in ways that don’t serve us and we use it to to do things like we to make people fall in love with us for instance where to use sexuality as a weapon because in many ways text has been used as a weapon against us and very few of the women that I’ve ever met has have worked with their sexuality as a source of pleasure and is a source of achieving Union ecstatic Union with the Divine so that’s that’s been a really big interest of mine how do we how do we move towards sex and desire to do that and also another really important aspect is my pot that I kind of alluded to earlier is looking at this experience of being bicultural this experience of growing up in two completely different traditions and and Bridging the Gap because I do think that Eastern forms of thought like Tantra obviously we’re seeing them becoming more and more popular and more and more needed and the west and at the same time there’s there’s just been a lot of really interesting stuff that’s been happening in India in particular and other places where traditionally women haven’t held over positions of power and where there really is still a lot of suppression as far as sexuality goes it’s amazing that India’s this place where Tantra and the Kama Sutra came out of but at the same time there are still horrific attitudes towards women are still bride burning since honor killings and end public rate end so I think that we really we really need to come to an understanding that that Bridges the disconnect that exists and it and I think this isn’t just a disconnect that’s about east and west and our attitudes towards sexuality and body and spirituality it’s a deeper and deeper conflict that’s being healed and it’s a conflict that I think lives inside the human consciousness and that collie and got us have to have the profound power to really heal so so a lot of the work that I’m doing is that the dressing that dualistic split again you know between nature and civilization masculine light and dark and I’m really interested in accessing your life force which is it’s the erotic nstemi accessing the erotic it’s it’s a spiritual act it’s a political act on it’s what we can do to claim our freedom as creative beings and I’ve really seen magical things happen we can act without energy and I’ve seen that happen in my own life and just to give you a little bit more background about myself about 7 years ago or so I was in a marriage that was falling apart and everything looked great on the outside I have been with my partner for close to a decade and something was missing and I didn’t know exactly what and I felt so guilty that I can be in this marriage that where everything looks perfect on the outside but inside there was something essential that was missing that I couldn’t put a name to I’m so I buried that understanding three years and years and and finally at some point the entire relationship just kind of exploded and it was like goddess herself came into my life and and shown this Stark light on to everything that I had built and and I felt like I was falling apart and it was a revelation and it was very difficult for me at that time and I think it’s that way of guilt and shame this this sense of internal knowing that there’s something that’s missing and I look back on that time now and I know that what was missing was my sense of connection to pleasure and desire and two goddess really to the feminine I think that that weight of guilt and shame of wanting and longing for this thing that we don’t have words for it it keeps so many women from tapping into the full extent of who they are and they’re afraid to even admit to it so I would say that my my real talk begin with just acknowledging my desire technology that there was a desire that was not being mad and it was not being that in the context of that marriage so after that I I would stay the night I went on an odyssey that involved Tantra it involved doing some somatic therapy sexological Bodywork and seeing what has been frozen inside me and this experience with Awakening and another itself and I really wanted to share that with other women and so many of the women that I have worked with had really similar stories and another thing that I’ve discovered that’s been remarkable is that a lot of the women I’ve worked with have kind of come into their own relationship with goddess and we’re really finding you know we can’t we can’t divorce our sexuality from our sense of connection to God has for my sense of connection to the universe and to each other and I think that would have been recognizing the night I should say that I work primarily with women but I’ve also worked with men and I’m seeing this awareness and then also is that we are seeking to make our ecosystem harmonious we’re tired of being in conflict with ourselves and we want a sexuality and a spirituality and creativity and community that are all integrated where we don’t have to leave any part of ourselves out answer me with the work that I’ve done in Tantra and with my own practices that involves connecting with collie she she is that energy she is fat energy of you know what here’s this is this is who you are this is all of you take it all you know the good the bad the ugly the things that you perceived as beautiful things that you perceive is garbage and use it because it’s yours and that for me has really been the gift of working with Tantra and being on this path wow thank you so much I’m just like smiling like ramakrishna this whole time here he missed that one photo that’s like so ecstatic and blissed-out the love of the mother just is so intoxicating and yeah yeah this is so beautiful for me to hear especially the did you see at the intensity I mean I’ll tell you that a lot of the time for that I was exposed to four years didn’t go anywhere near Shadow work or collie and when it’s when she was finally you know various when she entered my life very forcefully but yet beautifully I realized how much well just started to scratch the surface of what was missing from the westernized you know hyper-sexualized Tantra that’s not really getting into the deep Shadow work so yeah I really appreciate just having you on this in this conversation and if you don’t mind before we get into the the yantra if I could just Explorer some of my questions for you about Kali and how how she can be accessed and what some of her roles are ya so like I said I was going to learning Township techniques and breathwork and eye gazing and meditation and chakras and Kundalini stuff and and and it was just sort of well divorced from Sedona and goddess worship and so you know the encountering of in the wind a true just to passionate Devotion to the goddess for how much love there is there in one set started to pour into my life and when you know female sort of priestesses were starting to enter my life to initiate me and connect me that way I started going on a frenzy of really studying this force of nature that’s beyond words really beyond the iconic symbol of her standing on Shiva really that’s just a map but it’s not the terrain the terrain of her flesh in her being in her dimensions are so vast you know they’re unspeakable and I’ve gotten deeper and deeper into exploring her boundlessness and I’m curious as SUV gun into your ritual practice of of worship how how would you describe visual experiences an emotional and embodiment experiences send just a sort of narrative Beyond iconography that you’ve experienced too kind of compare notes you know I’m saying about that for hours yeah it’s it’s I think there’s always kind of this interesting experience that that we have when we decide to devote ourselves to particular path or even to a particular deity there’s you know kind of navigating that c of contradictions that all of the stories all of the lore all of the imagery on the experiences you hear about other people having there’s all of that that’s kind of floating and the Consciousness and I think it’s particularly complicated with Kali because she’s she’s so she represents a paradigm that to me is about moving beyond Orthodox representation socially Downs ideas of what’s good are appropriate so in some ways she’s she’s she’s really hard to represent and you know I’m constantly reading descriptions of Kali at that I that I think are grossly mistaken and I just a kind of I picked this up in park in preparing for this interview I was doing a bit of research and I was and I noticed that there was an Encyclopedia Britannica it describes collie as the major Hindu goddess whose I can. she calls in mythology commonly associate her with death sexuality violence and paradoxically and some of her later historical appearances motherly love which I think is really funny because I don’t think any of that is paradox in some ways and comprehensible and so I I would actually say that eyes my relationship with Collies when that is I mean how can it not be informed by certain cultural ideas of who she is whether those are coming more from Orthodox Hindu ideas of who she is and I should say that I grew up in a household that very much revered Kali and and and Shiva in particular they were they were on the present so there were lots and lots of beautiful pictures of collie with her necklace with severed skulls and it was always really funny when I had friends coming over to my house and they see these pictures and it’d be like oh my God that’s that’s so creepy that’s so messed up like why do you have these pictures up in your house and I I really agree with a with an enormous amount of reverence for these images which you know that they might look violent on the outside but they’re just they’re just representations you know their representations of things that exist within each and every one of us then and I always for me I always felt that was that was the beauty of it the beauty was in was in the imagery that that didn’t just fit didn’t just done represent her as being kind of the docile nurturing mother but there’s love these in here there’s love even in this and I really grew up with that understanding so none of that snooze paradoxical but at the same time a lot of Hindus will say oh well, he is actually really loving there is no there is no ferocious aspect beer I think that still persist even among people who do follow her and I think that it’s really important to it’s really important to see that so that her love is all encompassing it it really it’s her love is is her dancing in the Charnel grounds it’s her cutting off illusion at its roots it’s her frankly doing all the shit that we humans don’t want to do that we don’t want to face and I think I really I’ve really discovered Kali in my body in my dreams there’s a very there’s a personal relationship that I’ve had to develop with collie that’s about yes it’s about entertaining the way that she appears in the world and imagery and iconography and I think that there’s a place for all of that but it never became quite real to me until I experienced her for myself until I experienced myself in her grip well yeah well I think that the the story that you read that I wrote it was it was about coming face-to-face with her during I guess what I could describe as being a Dark Night of the Soul on at a time in my life where I felt completely alone and in many ways forsaken by just the spiritual practices that I had had and it was just a really it was a very lonely. My life and I didn’t have a spiritual community that I could really share this with and the most intense experience I had is coming face-to-face with Mama was it’s so appropriate it was during my first Ayahuasca Journey and and I it’s it’s funny sometimes when I described that Journey to the people that they’re just horrified because it really felt like I was coming I was coming face-to-face with death with my dad with the death of everything that I had held to be stable and fixed and everything I thought of as being me and and I think it’s really it’s important of course to remember that collie Collies name is it comes from the Sanskrit root for time and there’s nothing that is skates you know the march of time there’s nothing that escapes her and so and I do think of calling is being a goddess of death but I I’ve always seen it as being the death of the ego and that was that was kind of the experience that I that I had and I which is not to say that I think my ego is completely dead or the even that I wanted to be completely and totally different conversation altogether but but I really felt that this this experience that I had of coming face-to-face with her was about overcoming all of these ideas that I had about who I was and I think that when we become encased in those ideas those ideas become a prison and we don’t allow ourselves to grow into what we could be we don’t allow ourselves to move in the direction that our souls urine for and so I it was it was an incredibly on uplifting experience it was the experience of I’m dying and and also understanding that part of me that is eternal that that is not my you know the part of me that is not my body and not my personality and not my ego which is not to say that that stuff is in the gated because I cannot have that experience was just an even deeper appreciation for everything that I do have all of these tools that I do have at my disposal and I just remember coming out about journey of being sort of like wow I have have this body and you know like my body does all this amazing stuff that’s so cool and there was a sense of. Being you know a face of this this larger being that I am but I bet that’s part of the mystery it belongs to the mystery just as she lives in a mystery and I kind of felt that little journey into my death was this this this beautiful on kind of sojourn into that deeper mystery where you know everything that we believe about ourselves is is just untrue on and it’s it’s interesting cuz it feels like to me that was ego obliterating but it was also on I would say that it’s the most loved that I’ve ever felt it’s the most I’ve ever felt and it was in it wasn’t it was coming to me and it was moving through me and I was that love and if anything it felt like it just it it made me so much bigger then I then I ever knew was possible and that’s me is is just kind of stuff ultimate that’s the ultimate encounter with her she shows you how small your ideas of yourself really are there so puny know who you think you are and what you believe you’re capable of compared to the reality which is just so vast it’s it’s like you know if we settle we settle for so little in terms of our lives than 10 we settle for safety but I but I do think that with the soul wants is that experience of vastness and that experience is moving in to know the places that we fear which I kind of like the veil in front of the vastness you know you got it you have to move through that in order to get to in order to get to that place where you like oh yeah this is it this is this is the experience that my soul has been hungering for and I was the experience that I knew I was hungry for when I was in this dead-end marriage where everything like the future had been written it was everything had been predicted I know I could cross it all off my to-do list and die happy according to someone else’s standards of what that happiness was but I would never have gotten to that to that place to that place of you know feeling this Indescribable love the love that comes through when you’re willing to surrender your ideas of who you are and what your life is supposed to look like and said that experience that’s a very that’s that’s always going to be a personal experience for anybody and it’s going to look different for everybody and I’ve got to say that was that was fairly recent in my life and I honestly don’t know that I that I really knew Kali was before that I had an idea I had a deep reverence for her but I wasn’t touched by her in quite the same way as I was when I allowed myself to go into this experience and allowed myself to say yes I’m okay I’m okay with my dad so just to sort of Jump Ahead a little bit I think there are a lot of different ways to really make a connection with her to get in contacts but I do think that one of the quickest route is is Ayahuasca if if any of your listeners are so inclined it seems to be kind of a direct a direct line to her and and I think

The Path of a Shamanatrix with Kristen Boyer TPP56


Kristen Boyer picIn this episode I’m am joined by Kristen Boyer. She caught my attention in a you tube video of a panel discussion on eros and entheogens. She described a recent chapter of her life as a profesional shamanatrix. I had dreamt of  such an archetype several years ago as I began to be intiated into the mysteries of sexual healing with psychedelic goddess worship

She has graciously blessed the podcast by sharing a bit from her memoires and engaging in a visioneering session with me on a more holistic and empowered future for dommes and their clients.

About Kristen

I have always been a natural counselor and teacher by design, and have been interested in motivating and supporting others in achieving their highest levels of happiness, wholeness and success. Shortly after earning my MA in Creative Arts Therapy at Pratt Institute in New York, I fell ill with chronic illness followed by abandonment of my spouse (which were undoubtedly connected to my health problems and had to be addressed on a physical, emotional and spiritual level). I felt my life crumble before me. In desperation to stay in New York City, I took up a job as a professional dominatrix as an attempt to reclaim my power and supplement the high costs of city living. I applied my psychotherapy training and facilitated a glorified version of drama therapy that allowed my clients an outlet for their shadow sides to be vulnerable, acknowledged and accepted without judgment. I found that deeply wounded clients were magnetically drawn to my empathic intuitive ‘girl next door’ persona. I found I was naturally gifted at holding space for some of the darkest, and most concealed wounds to be seen and healed. My dungeon time was not long-lived yet these experiences have inspired me to transmute and integrate some of the darker, shadow sides of my clients while balancing spiritual and psychological health.

Shamanism and soul retrieval work began to magnetically draw me in and I quickly realized that this was my life’s work. I was trained in many shamanic healing modalities, the most powerful of these techniques being soul retrieval. Learning how to facilitate soul retrieval was the missing piece of my healing practice…click here to read more

Please connect with Kristen and access her services by visiting her website:

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear love his welcome to Township on podcast episode number 56 I’m here with Kristin Boyer and she is a shamanic healer and a very interesting lie to me also has a history of doing work as a Dominatrix and when you put the two together you have a shamanatrix and I think that’s a real endearing term I actually envisioned the need for that myself a few years ago and I thought that was a beautiful archetype in you’re actually the first person who I’ve discovered that has use that title so I’m very interested if you if you like to Chris and tell us a bit about your background and then we can talk about how you Blended those two modalities and I’m so excited to be on your show they said thank you for having me so to explain a little bit about how I got into this work there’s a little bit of a backstory that I find is became a very strong story my life that helps me to get to where I am doing this demonic Soul retrieval and it’s Soul empowerment work that I do now that I grew up with a very tight lace fundamentalist Christian family in in the suburbs of Pennsylvania and I found that there was just this very controlling very sexually submissive as Ben also repressive energy that was in my household and so as I was growing up I felt like I wanted to rebell against. But I also felt a little bit controlled by those forces so there’s always this theme of submissiveness control feeling disempowered in that way that I grew up and when I was 24 years old I got married to this man who I thought was the man of my dreams right he was as wonderful man from Scotland I had met when I was 16 years old on the family vacation and we became pen pals we stayed in touch and it was during the time that I was in graduate school studying creative arts therapy at Pratt Institute in New York City that I reconnected with this man and at that time he came to visit me we fell so deeply in love all over again just like when we were 16 17 years old and we decided to be crazy young kids and start a path towards getting married and getting a green card for my my partner so we got married and soon after we were hitched he just completely changed and I began to see his true colors and I felt truly that I had been tricked by a sociopath he quickly went through my lifesaving which wasn’t too much of the time but was all that I had to my name and as soon as all of our rent money was gone he got on a plane to Scotland without me knowing so I came back from work I had been working as a nanny working with children who had deep emotional disturbance we’re on a lot of medications because of course then the nanny agency I work for I had this extensive training in Psychotherapy psychology create our therapies and they put me with these very challenging children so I came back from work and I found that he and all of his belongings had completely vanished and I went to the store with trying to figure out how to stay in New York trying to figure out what had happened and I was able to become a little bit of a sleuth and you connect via Facebook and interwebs to find out where he was and what had happened and his his best friend reached out to me and said I’m really sorry and I offer my condolences I didn’t realize things weren’t working out but Tommy’s on the plane to Scotland right now and you know I’m really sorry about that and so at that moment I realized that he was completely gone and I was in this really tight situation so at that time I was going through the shedding of ight I thought this was going to be my life getting married having a family you know the white picket fence and all that stuff that I don’t necessarily believe and I’m really happy that Bishop’s in my life happened so that I could let go of that old dream to make space for this new one and what ended up happening was was working as this nanny with these is really highly stressful cases and some of the nannies that I had play dates with pulled me aside and they said Kristen you are a hot mess and you can’t be with these kids right now you’re about to crack and I said absolutely I was excusing myself to cry in the bathroom when there are other nannies around that gets rid of look after the kids for me and I came back and said this is this is not a good situation for me to be and I’m not quite sure what to do cuz I want to stay in New York the issue was that my parents were very rigid and they didn’t agree with me marrying outside of my Christian religion and I knew that if I went back home that they would just crush the rest of my soul and I realize that I have had this was what I Now understand is it was almost like I was losing parts of myself losing parts of my soul as I know understand it to the lens of the work I do but at that time I thought you know my soul has been compromised I feel like I’ve lost parts of myself in this marriage and the destruction of this marriage and even with the work I was doing with these kids I was just it felt like parts of me were just checking out or leaving my body because the situation I was in was just a sera and I thought if I went back to my parents house in Pennsylvania that it was just going to ravage and rape the rest of my soul so I knew that that was not the solution and I was trying to find a way to stay in New York and that’s when these nannies that I had these pleaded with pulled me aside and said Kristen you’re falling apart you need to think about doing something else and hey you know I don’t want to make you feel weird I don’t want to embarrass you or anything but maybe you should think about becoming a professional Dominatrix and at that point I just need to know I picture it in my mind myself in this black leather outfit with a whip and it’s like a dominatrix I think that’s what I think that’s what that is before I could even respond to the other nanny said you know what I had a friend who did that and she went through a really hard breakup and she processed her feelings through the work she made a lot of money doing it I think you should give it a shot and I looked out of myself and I will only be 25 and look this good with lines and so I thought you know what have I got to lose already lost everything what else have I got to lose and so I thought it wouldn’t hurt to get in touch with someone who had already done that work and one of the nannies put me on the phone with one of their friends she wouldn’t give me her real name and she was very secretive about it she said you know this work is not for the faint of heart but if you’re good and if you can really connect with these people then you can really hit the jackpot and so I went into this work not being very educated about it so I decided to read some books on how to do BDSM in a very safe way what people are looking for Understanding Psychology behind because I was always very excited about the psychology and I had worked with a lot of drug addicts I’d work with a lot of sex addicts at Bellevue Hospital and the chemical dependency and mental health clinic for one of my internship so it already had this background with working with really intense stories and also working with people who have had sexual addiction so I thought you know I think I’m pretty much grounded and what I need to know to be able to handle most situations and I went to the dungeon I found the dungeon that one that has been highly recommended I went in there and they said you know I gave them my resume and they said that it dropped it on the floor and said just pick a name when do you want to start and it rolled off of my lips Karma my name is Miss just Karma so when I got into the dungeon I realized that people were coming in with these really interesting stories and it took me a few sessions to realize that a lot of the stories that my clients were bringing to me were stories of this empowerment that had actually happened to them so for example I had this one individual who is this really tall very good looking older man may be in his early 50s salt and pepper hair and he had a very deep voice but then he would go into this character he always wanted to play the same scenario out where I would be his babysitter and I would be his babysitter who would force him to touch himself and I would switch narrate this whole scene where I wouldn’t be directly of using him but I would be creating these situations that were very very sexy were very erotic but we’re also triggering something and I know this this because he had this really big strong voice book he would talk about it you would talk like as a little boy years old there was something that just wasn’t bridging together as far as young as a little baby with the way that we were doing this role play and it was interesting because I have a password I was sexually abused by a neighbor by babysitter so it was almost like whenever he saw me he would pick me because he knew and it was interesting because most of the other jobs were really intimidated by this particular situation I felt very uncomfortable around taking on clients who had these really interesting story than maybe it’s something that I attractive because I needed to play out my own stories but I was Finding with a lot of the client’s house working with they had very similar stories that they wanted to play out every single time another example is there was this older gentleman who wanted us which scenario and a switch scenario is where one person plays the dominant one and then they also play the submissive why then you either changed the role within the story or you have different stories that you play out and there were certain to be able to ship those roles and there was one particular gentleman who always has the same idea of what he wanted to do first you wanted to do a role-play where I was an indentured servant and my husband had passed away and I had to take on his hours of Labor before I would be able to be set free and that was one of the roles in the second one he wanted to play which was I was either mrs. Schmidt or Mrs Smith’s mother and he went on to say that he had these foster parents and his foster mother in the spa your mother’s mother was were the ones that he was primarily being raised by and that he described it so that our characters they were very very harsh very hard and punishing on him especially his foster mother’s mother who had this energy of being very sexual would be naked all the time great provocative it was for the back to Lori and then would punish him for almost nothing and so I was I was chose to embody that character because you could feel the essence of this person exists and it’s almost like just tapping into this frequency of becoming that character and I’ve experienced that when I’ve done family constellations there is therapies where you can take a role for someone else to play a family member and it’s like you don’t have to know much of the backs or you just need to tap into the vibration of that character is and then you express that in a way that you are playing out an old roll or giving a person a opportunity to break that role and so it was Finding was these clients as commercial dungeon we’re coming in with these stories that were truly truly in a sense disempowering and I found it a lot of them are trying to find ways to make this consensual either by playing it out but this time it’s okay because permission decided okay I’m playing with an adult who I find attractive who knows the rules and I can communicate with and I was finding these scenarios where the people didn’t actually know how to change the stories some of them tried and some of them wanted to switch the roles and change the dialogue but most of the time my clients would come in with the same script literally our had people who were coming in with a script and if I went one line two lines off of that script they would break down and we have to start over again from the top, and of course I’ve done all this work and you know the creative arts therapy is Rob doing movement therapy art therapy talk therapy and in this sense to me this was imma therapy and we were playing out stories and I found it not only were my clients stuck in this Loop of an old traveler an old story that they were playing and still I was too I was looking at my store in my lens of feeling unwanted feeling like I had been abandoned feeling like I couldn’t be myself from my family and I was revolted against all of those stories and I was creating a Persona it through mistress Karma to reshape how I felt by feeling powerful feeling like I was in control feeling like I was wanted and desired and what was interesting was when I tapped into those vibrations are I played out those rolls I felt like a superhero but I would still go home at the end of the night and I was by myself cry myself to sleep because my life was falling apart at the seams and all of the other areas but when I could play and tap into a character that was truly empowered I felt empowered but I character wasn’t able to permeate my entire life and I found that I was still stock and instead I was so they’re dividing into the sub character that was empowering me and giving me strength and then this other more honest South seeing where I was at and feeling hopeless and feeling like my heart was blocked and that this play was helping me to put his dance around where I was hurt and make connections with people in a fun way but I was still protecting something and not being truly authentic because I was afraid of being hurt so long story short I’m working in the dungeon and this is around 2012 and there were a lot of planetary shifts if you say I’m not really too sure what the blame it on the all the sudden my intuition became sharper than it ever has been before and I guess in retrospect of always have had this additional sense to send spirits and all the sudden I was seeing ghosts in the dungeon literally full-body apparitions and I saw these fragments of people who have been coming into the number being punished or hurt and I began to see this fragmentation of these you know now I understand is so parts that there was some trauma happening and people are separating the parts of their souls and I was seeing if I was having the lights turned on and off on me is it a comical way during sessions that we worked into the session but realizes this is a ghost and they were jiggling the door knobs and you know trying to get my attention in every which way and at that point I just almost as if I could hear them whispering to me get out of here go leave you it’s not safe as if the ghosts were telling me that it’s not safe and I wasn’t sure if it was because of them or if it was because there were some illegal operations going on in this particular dungeon and there was a lot of close calls with the cops and all sorts of things unitedness tell me when I get wrapped up in that energy but at that point I just decided okay I don’t know why but I think it’s time to go and so I left the dungeon and during that time I had been putting myself through school as a holistic nutritionist and housecoat and so at that point I had already taken on some new clients and was working in the health and coaching fields and I was also taking a bunch of classes at this holistic Learning Center in New York City where I was doing for the work-study program so I was able to assist as an assistant with classes so I could take them for free and at that time all of my clients were talking about Shamanism shamanism really know that much about Shamanism it just sounded like something I was told to stay away from as a kid because no demon is armor you know who it is of her all these things that my parents would have shamed and the church shamed is there different these are not okay and there was something that was attractive about this word and all my clients kept telling me about something called Soul retrieval and I I didn’t know what that was but it sounded really powerful and it kept showing up everywhere for someone who’s never heard about Shamanism someone who’s never heard about store to will it was literally everywhere I looked I would walk into the place where I was interning and they had a booger and it was literally jump off at the Shelf at me every time I walked into the room is all I could see and I knew that there was something to it and so at that point I began to read Sandra ingerman book on Soul retrieval mending the fragmented self and she’s a psycho therapist you have the same training as me looking at the soul as having these different parts of ourselves that if we become traumatize we go through a situation that is truly not ideal it could be a really hard partnership we’re fighting with that partner a lot it could be having some kind of sexual or physical abuse from her child in a car accident where the situation is really hard on us on our souls in that part of our soul actually say I don’t want to be here anymore and we’ll innocence check out or disassociate if we’re looking through the lens of psychology and I was looking at this and say oh I disassociate here and here and here looking for my childhood looking to different parts of my life looking through this horrific experience I have with my marriage and realizing that part of my soul my soul laugh and realizing that I had so much so lost and I needed to learn more and it was at that time that I saw that there was a training for soul retrieval and it was like I haven’t had it yet I knew I have I have to go and you know me while I’m taking these classes on Shamanism and I’m connecting through the beat of the drums going into the state of brain waves state to through meet with my power animal is my spirit guide something I had never thought about doing before so that went to this class and began to learn it and all of my Spirit guides came to me and finally you’re here to quit your job this is your life to me like I was the teacher asking me and I you know they had more training than I did in many cases and here they were coming to me for the answers night I just like I knew that it was it was really wacky experience and what ended up happening was I saw the training for soul retrieval and it was you know about $3,000 to get the tickets to New Mexico and to pay for the program in the housing and my flight cost and I said well I need $3,000 and within 3 days I had $3,000 because I had been introduced to another client I was still doing the dominatrix work I was doing independently now and I have one client just couldn’t get enough of me for that particular week and within that week I had made my rent for the next month and I had made 3000 extra dollars and it was for the training I knew it I needed a few days before and here it was so easy so I ended up going to I had to do all this preliminary training this woman so the turn me away initially and then she came back because I’m so sorry my Spirit guides told me I have to train you and I need to put my judgments of whether you’re ready or not a side because you are supposed to do this training and so long story short I end I’ve been completely supported by the universe to do this sort Uber work and what I found with that was not only was it so empowering it got me my power back from a many incidences in my past I had alluded to having some sexual abuse with a neighbor that repeated itself as a father and as I was in the doll that got raped by one of my neighbors and going back to the original wound getting my power back from how when I was five to seven I wasn’t able to stand up for myself and getting my power my innocence my Purity back and then being able to get my power back as an adult from what it happened to me and going back to my marriage and going back to the church and taking some power back that I had given away because you know the Church of shavings my body or shavings me as a woman being in my power and I ended up getting all this power back from different parts in my life and I also was getting this message to write my story so I began to write about being a Dominatrix and writing all of these different scenarios and role play partaking in writing about my past and just creating a story this Memoir of my life and realizing that the ending was unfolding as I was writing as I began to learn about Shamanism Soul retrieval it occurred to me that I could shift out of this old pattern of this empowerment not by playing or talking or painting my way to my power in fact all of those tools that I learned are so helpful for cultivating awareness of what is missing or how it last for all of a sudden I had this additional tool about how to get your power back so we look at indigenous societies and we look at cultures all around the world I was trained primarily at least initially in a practice called core Shamanism where we look at what are the core beliefs what are the core practices there consistent cross-culturally that are all pretty much and that’s an bolts the same even if every culture does it slightly differently and what I found was all these cultures had a practice cold sore tooth what it was believed that moment to travel within a few days and if you miss that Feud a range in this case we do it many years later and sometimes for our ancestors who are not able to do the work for themselves we can go back to that space of the original wounding of the original disempowerment and we can actually get that power back you go into this non-ordinary state where it’s almost like it’s we’re on our way to shopping list under three planes there’s the lower World Topper World the middle world in the middle world is where there’s us and time does not exist we also see that ghost and fragmented Soul Parts get stuck here so someone is how to travel part of their soul leaves that part of their soul become stuck so you can access this particular route through the shamanic lens and you can gather up that person’s energy and its purest form the part that left because of the trauma and then physically bring that back and blow that into the person either in person or long-distance it works just the same and that person can been in body that part of themselves that they lost and I was finding that looking at my own life and looking at the clients that I had been working with and seeing these stories of this empowerment that’s what we were trying to get at we were dancing around what part of your power is lost what part of your Purity what part of your confidence what part of yourself love it depending on what happened you can access that particular emotion in its fullest vibrant healthy form and bring it back and I found that what I was doing like many of my other clients were trying to fill this void where they felt like part of the show was missing and they were trying to figure out a way to make it okay a way to make a consensual or a way to create the space for them to become more aware of what was missing and something else I found it very interesting that was happening in the dungeon was that I was connecting with people beforehand we go in and meet them and agree to whatever scenario you would be playing out what kind of role play scenarios that was what I specialize that I was specializing in role-play so I got a lot of Storytelling through the work that I was doing and my clients would have the story in a very specific role play and we would agree on it when it says Shake on it and then I would say you know what kind of outfit you want me to wear what kind of personality do want me to come in or just come into the room just embodying that character that they wanted me to work with and when I was Finding was these people were seems really great okay wonderful we have a wonderful agreement here and we’re consenting to this particular store line I would come back in and it was almost as if the person that I talked to was no longer in their body their eyes would change their eyes would sometimes go black or dark and it was almost like they were no longer in their bodies and especially during episodes where they wanted to be severely beaten or severely punished or become very submissive to a degree that felt like there was another story playing out that was actually quite traumatizing I would see that their eyes would change their was almost like there was something in them that was feeding off being hurt or feeding off the emotion of being punished or spit on or disempowered in some way and it took me many years to actually put together the pieces and realized that in a lot of cases where people have lost their power from an actual trauma when their soul leaves the other energies can come in so we can look at those as psychic attachments demons you can look at that as just inviting sadness or anger or jealousy whatever label you want to put on it it’s sort of a spectrum of what cancer to come into that space But I found that there was something in them that was no longer connected to that playful part I was talking to that I was making a deal with and that there was something that was lower vibrational that was entering into the body or maybe just shifting over because they were triggering this part of this empowerment that was just feeding off of the cycle of being hurt or replaying the abusive situation and so I remember feeling very uncomfortable very comfortable making an agreement with someone coming in and stealing I don’t feel safe anymore this is not the person I agreed with and this person now feels very scary and make sure that in some of these situations I was in an empowered roll truly and not just playing one so that I could make sure that I could keep my safety because in some cases it was almost like a situation so I began to realize that as I continue to do the shamanic work that these energies can come in and that some of these people were so the acting out of this other lower vibration place and not necessarily wanting to go and heal the story but wanting to perpetuate and see something that was still wanting to replay the story if that makes sense wow do you feel like you have me a more sure about that the journey or can I give some some thoughts and on what we’ve come share so far. So I’d be happy to hear your Reflections and answer anything in more detail that use it getting chills because I really I really wanted to hear these words spoken in another voice cuz I’ve had these experiences really on multiple sides of a lot of what you’ve talked about I’m I’m a Survivor it took me years to discover sexual healing through Tantra and soul retrieval through psychedelic Shamanism and ceremony and and I have been leaving those paths together and having a lot of the same Revelations and also taking a more clinical psychotherapeutic approach as well to be able to translate these esoteric principles and phenomena into language that can be medically standardized in a way so that we can treat it in a way where would the work you’re doing is truly a knowledge so this is like my big passion is to hear these words spoken the way that you’re saying I’m with that Authority in that and the credentials to get this to progress cuz we need to be able to offer Hands On Healing we need to be able to offer these very deeply involved like you say the role-playing and you’re not going to get that in most of the boundaries that are set up in you know the psychotherapeutic in psychiatric Industries really so thank you just so much being on this Edge synthesis and a few things that I want to explore a little bitter or zoom into will be so I when you sit when you’re talking about the the changeover that you can see in the eyes shifting when you get into these these states with the client I’ve kind of use the language that it seems like a discovery is that evil will fill a vacuum of love and that love is the disinfectant from the parasitic attachments or for the parasitic attachments to get kind of scraped off like Barnacles off of a I’d like use the metaphor fewer if you go down to any doctor you know when you see boats moored at the slips you’ll see people that are in you know scuba gear getting paid to scrape off the Barnacles and the seaweed and all the things that attach to it that would slow it down in the water and that’s the routine maintenance thing like this soul is the same way it seems where you have to do if you don’t have a self-care practice or you know shamanatrix to call you’re going to have those things growing because it’s an ecosystem in the astral plane so do you want to talk about maybe what time since you have some of the Clairvoyant abilities what are you if you’ve been able to you know see and maybe describe a little bit about what these entities or these organisms use