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Mike Stabile with FSC Logo

If You Like Porn You’ll Love the Free Speech Coalition with Mike Stabile TPP287

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In this episode I’m joined by Mike Stabile of the Free Speech Coalition for an exploration of his personal journey into the adult industry, the history and mission of the FSC, and his role in helping to validate and destigmatize the adult entertainment industry

About Mike:

Director of Communications

Pronouns: He / Him / His
Mike Stabile is a journalist and documentary filmmaker who has written about and advocated for sex workers and sexual speech for over a decade. His work has been published in a wide range of publications, including the Daily Beast, Salon, Buzzfeed, Playboy and the New York Times. Seed Money, his documentary on pornographer philanthropist Chuck Holmes was named one of the Best Documentaries of 2015 by The Advocate.

Stabile founded Polari Media to help non-traditional communities and businesses better communicate with a mainstream audience. He has handled communications for the Free Speech Coalition since 2013.

https://www.freespeechcoalition.com/

https://twitter.com/mikestabile

My Non Verbatim Show Notes

MS:

thanks for being a member, supporter,

really important organization, adult industry as we know it would not be in existence if not for fsc and other free speech advocates

personal journey, started 2 decades ago

journalist, editor in SF, freelance in NY, moved back to SF, early 2000s,

internet taking off in regard to adult

freelance work for adult companies, coming online

fascinated by industry/culture

gay man, positive relationship with porn, sexuality in general,

gay community, different relationship with adult content, less shame, seen as part of healthy sexuality, compontent, rather than something you have to fight, it’s a tool in the tool box

took to the industry, met people really smart, doing interesting things

lot of room for creativity

worked at alt weeklies,

seemed like this was a new frontier

both money and will to try to do new things

community based in SF at that time, much of gay porn world based in SF, not the case necessarily today

a lot going on, working with naked sword

going on sets teaching self how to film behind the scenes content

invited by studios, go in, film things they could put on dvds, or websites, bonus content

met a lot of interesting directors, performers

started thinking about what I could do with those sort of skills

eventually decided I wanted to make a documentary

not necessarily about adult industry, some of the stories as it had been

worked on documentary about god father of gay porn industry, chuck homes

80s, different from today, arrested put in jail, really basic vanilla content,

depending on locality, how bad they wanted you, shut down your business, federal prison 3 or more years

early …people didn’t want to be photographed, didn’t want to be seen, everything was underground, sell out back of cars, cloak and dagger

government such a hostile force

reagan admin, meese commission, didn’t like it, series of crackdowns

become the beginning of the free speech coalition

needed time to work on documentary, needed time, money

wrote for new york times, buzzfeed, salon, wasn’t enough to survive

started freelancing, got called into kink.com

they were having some issues, needed somebody to help them with media, at the time getting a lot of attention not all of it positive

they needed somebody who could help

I know industry, the world, other side of media

disconnected, people aren’t understanding what you’re doing

took them on

from there, recommended to FSC

head of kink recommended I started working with them

work with a number of other companies as well

indy films, sex tec, sex educators,

pro bono work with sex workers

help better communicate their story to a mainstream world, to a civilian world

really fascinating, myths people have about the industry

longer I’m in it, almost 2 decades now,

how inventive resourceful, smart people in industry are

came from a bit of a carny family NJ

affinity for liminal entertainment industry

really funny ,feels like home, thought would be detour, might be where I was meant to be

with FSC about 7 years, worked with them on prop 60 campaign, fight against mandatory condoms,

organization, got start in late 80s early 90s, about 30 years old, it arose when after a series of vice raids in los angeles, coming out of the 80s where you had meese commission shutting people down, fbi shutting people down based on recommendations

originally legal defense fund

if somebody was busted, lapd raided your offices, fbi agent in conservative area like alabama ordered your vhs tape, it wasn’t just a criminal conviction you had to face, it was gonna drain your business and drain your money

anti porn forces really knew

order something like, vhs in alabama, in utah, in another conservative location, boom, they would go after you for selling obscene materials across state lines

wouldn’t even be able to get conviction, but having to fight 3 different criminal cases in federal court or even a raid at your studio, incredibly draining, easy way to put people out of business

federal govt trying to put people out of business

take a big distributor/producer, really make an example out of them

people really scared

originally FSC defense fund

fight and not go out of business

evolved into advocacy organization in mid 90s

CA state govt decided to tax adult content, something like 25%

unconstitutional, singling out specific type of speech

probably going to pass

fsc shifted gears, going to sacramento, lobbying, figuring out how to work within this system, was able to defeat it

TP: astronomical tax, argument to use for enforcement

MS: predates me, money going to go something like domestic abuse victims, sexual assault victims, or sex trafficking, still seeing this today, legislation proposed, most recent, put a filter on all computers sold in south carolina, block adult content, if you want it removed you have to pay state $20 for them to remove it, really bad legislation, most doesn’t go very far, passionate ideology, hates porn, say gonna take money fight, sex trafficking, sexual assault, something they thing porn causes

way to get money, another way for them to link it to something they believe is one of the ills caused by porn

number of battles, ongoing battles to this day

famous battles, supreme court, law passed, you can’t have any representation of somebody under age on your site, should have anything that looks like CP, should have any cartoons

legislation, incredibly broad, somebody in pig tales, site called barely legal, are they going to use this law to go after me, are they going to then start going through films and say you know what, this person may be of age, it was criminalizing, something ….gives appearance they may not be 18, subjective thing to say

unconstitutional, isn’t a crime,

big battles fought, early 2000s, fight over documents

broadest view, its become harder and harder to get obscenity convictions

so much content online,

because obscenity test, supreme court uses, 3 part test,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

80s and 90s, vhs tape small town in utah, trial in utah say to jury, does this violate your community standards

internet, community standards incredibly broad

how do you say this violates community standards, people passing around most obscene things on tumblr, twitter

fsc after advent of internet, byzantine regulatory battles

backdoor ways they could try to do censorship

record keeping provision, still in effect, we were able to limit it in various ways

in order for you to post something on website, whether you created it or not, sexually explicit or nude, copy of personal id, model release, separate room in home or office, cross filed all these different ways

2257 regulations, update

goal was to make sure that a person like you couldn’t post a nude photo from your site from somewhere else, they would have to have records for all these things

affiliate site, merely showed a photo

it wasn’t about whether or not these people were of age or not, that was held by primary producer, it was really about not allowing these to travel

backdoor ways of limiting the adult industry’s ability to work freely

really want to make it harder and harder and can’t do it through courts, byzantine ways make life more difficult, too costly

if you violate one thing, or mess up one thing you can go to federal prison

fsc,

in california, regulations that will say you need to adhere to same standards as any other work places, can’t have close physical contact, mask and googles in contact with bodily fluids, don’t apply to mixed martial arts/sports, blood and sweat flying

apply to adult industries, ah ha you have to do these things or we’re gonna fine you, possibly put you in jail

fsc, been really active, industry representative, in those meetings, going to capital, meeting with legislators

helping them understand, think our industry is much different

most people outside, think, its a bunch of drugged up people and sex slaves, idea it’s a bad industry

even if this law is a little bit unconstitutional, targeting them specifically, we’re doing it for their own good

save these women, stop the people becoming addicted to porn, whatever they’re going to use

fsc, what I try to do at my position, destigmatize, help people understand what we are and aren’t

have our own best practices

on set, it’s not a free for all

tested every 14 days

checklist gonna do this or not gonna do this

regulations, best practices

change the way people see us

at least in california

TP: wasn’t first condom law, the AHF, 2016, I remember marching in the streets of hollywood

MS: I was at that march as well, inspiring, all these sex workers marching in street fighting against idea that they need someone to save them

workers come out, you know nothing about my work, we didn’t ask for your help, if you want to know I can tell you but it’s not this

TP: just did interview with Corey Silverstein, struggles on horizon, current now,

thoughts on officially defunct, attempt to create a state-wide food handlers permit of adult, IEAU, fsc position on whether or not that was furthering hope, more sophisticated dialog

MS: still face things all the time, most recently, not just people coming from outside industry with ideas, sometimes people within industry, had experience, want to fix that, in general we welcome that

dialog about how we can make sets safer, empower performers,

don’t think anyone who works in the industry says its perfect

fsc, try to make it better, inform legislation that comes through, make it so it doesn’t do more harm

head of IEAU, small group of performers

one of women involved with that, put fort h proposal, people need training when they come into industry

wonderful in some ways ambition, want people to have as much information as possible, be empowered

unfortunately you get to a legislator, they don’t know much about the industry

formalize as a bill, put it through assembly, issue was it amounted to having to have a license

government shouldn’t be able to restrict

speech is different…we have a constitutional amendment

different that opening a hamburger stand/factory

government can’t restrain us from speaking unnecessarily

I think motivation in the right place, often people don’t think through consequences, as a result, license to speak

once you did these things you’d be able to operate as an adult performer, be essentially licensed

fsc, no this is a limit on a specific type of speech, we don’t ask this of reporters, politicians…religion

we had to call that legislator, go in and having meetings, talk about why this is a problem, arguments fall apart

didn’t even mean that, we understand, that’s why we’re hear

something ….can have wide ranging implications, we are a community already heavily stigmatized and criminalized

already ways in which members of adult community are discriminated against, stigmatized socially, want to make sure there aren’t any laws going on the books that can be used against us broadly

if you want to go after something that’s illegal, or actually a crime that’s fine, but don’t put something on the books that can be used broadly, it will be haunt us

adult industry canary in coal mine when it comes to free speech

us confernce of bishops recently called for pornography to be banned, evil, harmful, all these things not supported by science, but by morality

has to be somebody there that says no this is wrong and this is why

here’s where you’re argument fails

if you shut down pornography, what comes next, what qualifies as pornography

those are the discussions that fsc…built to have

TP: in my estimation, upgrade my thinking if necessary, might be naive, been in adult films for quite a while, attempted to get really legit about it in last 5 years, in that journey, opportunity to have internal industry self policing debates, progress, improving conditions on set, solidarity among different actors in the ecosystem, xbiz show, gripe, abused, mistreated, go to get some rally troops, stir up some discussion, better place than that

MS: xbiz, avn shows, couple of others, tradde shows, here in vegas, or europe, a lot of it, the value of those often is, connected with people in industry, also communicate best practices on sets

kink.com done a lot of work, how to better structure sets, performers feel empowered to speak up, structural problems

trade shows often good place for people to have discussions, best practices, performers, issues that affect them

social media, twitter, really revolution, adult performers, sex workers more broadly, seen a number of times in past, somebody has bad experience on set, consent violated, or scene was harder than expected, director didn’t listen, I am upset, community of performers on twitter who will share and retween, gains steam, performers on twitter have access to journalists in a way that they never did before

I think that, twitter works really well for journalists, works really well for adult performers, political groups as well have really thrived

other performers retweet, tag fsc, journalists will pick it up

issues, need multi level response

consent violation on set, wanted to stop, when you talk to law enforcement…doesn’t do anything, you’re a porn star this is want you signed up for, too messy, walk away

find out whats’ going on, what their resources are, don’t often have law enforcement willing to be involved, may be put in touch with crisis center, understand, legal rights, different resources legally, put in touch with performer groups, maybe reaching out to producer and say hey what the hell happened here

we’re a trade organization, advocacy organization, resource for performers and producers, whether somebody had a bad time on set, or somebody who’s bank shut them out

TP: real time court of public opinion

covid era, paradigm, may not have in person conferences to look forward to, relying on these platforms even more key

I know there was a moment not too long ago, scare of twitter wiping out adult related profiles

MS: with big tech, it’s hard to tell what’s going on, are people being shadow banned, profiles don’t come up when you search for them or is something going to happen

a lot of times a tech platform, new terms of service, TOS, sometimes, might say you can’t do anything obscene, sexually explicit, or violent, they can update the TOS put in new restrictions, might not operate on it immediately, might be something where they want the ability to go after you later, might be big crack down, might shut down your account, make you agree before hand

we don’t really know

used to be battle for free speech was fought in the courts, whether or not legal to show this movie at movie theater or sell this magazine

but the public square is internet, controlled by a few major corporation for the most part, facebook , twitter, instagram I guess is facebook, small number of places, reddit

not government by first amendment, governed by tos, no recourse, if twitter takes you off you can’t sue them and say we’re gonna go to the supreme court the way you could if a local judge shut down your movie, you had a recourse for appeal, there’s no appeal with social media, private company they can take you off if they want, appears to be an open public square, but you don’t have that same control

sort of where, we didn’t necessarily see anything happened, don’t have access to their back end,

account got shut down, shadow banned, something like that, we have no idea what’s going on, it’s a big black box,

really guess work, nothing catastrophic happened, this fall,

TP: selective enforcement,

spirit of fsc going back so many decades now, having been iterating through so many different chapters of new tech, are there people on your staff that are really keyed into web 3, blockchain, uncensorable rails of content and transactions, a lot of adult industry early adopters of bitcoin, but also ethereum smart contracts, platforms hoping to be uncensorable, can’t deplatform users, because it’s all peer-to-peer

original ethos of the internet to begin with, bastardarization of peer to peer open source becoming centralized big data

one of your staff, crypto geek?

MS: small staff, just a handful of us, what we depend on are are members, various committees, board of directors, rotates every two years, people come in, nobody specifically on staff that handles crypto, new platforms, what we have is

adult industry is really well positioned, people in industry, tremendously innovated

we’re working on regulatory/legislative

people in industry building platforms, blockchain, crypto

adult industry, really fertile soil, natural consumers, gonna be there no matter what you try, always gonna be somebody who’s turned on by what your fetish is , how you’re structuring your company

something we don’t do specifically, keep aware in larger industry, what’s happening, understand it in terms of a resource

one thing we’re seeing right now, with alternate platforms, rise of premium social, only fans, just for fans, many vids

alternatives for people who are looking to build a following, but aren’t allowed on instagram, or worried twitters gonna get taken away

legislation not gonna help

alternatives

not gonna be as big as twitter, but might be a place, should twitter shut down, natural migration

seeing coming in future, seen it with some of social media already, build a better mouse trap

get something that does what we need it today, if they ever do decide to take off adult content, we have a place to go, contingency plan

TP: lots of life rafts being built, awesome, zooming in now impetus for this call, joined zoom meeting, xbiz town hall, fsc rep, survey in email about task force, have you give a sort of, some info on what the task force is doing, some of the ways the covid crisis is affecting adult

MS: industry has been shut down since march 15th, when governor of CA called for non essential businesses to close, FSC went into crisis mode, not just in terms of how do we deal with this as an industry, how do we take care of performers and crew members now not going to be able to work

we are a vulnerable population, a lot of us maybe not connected to families, come from communities we might be exiled from, it takes a certain person to work in this industry, given the discrimination want to make sure, we need to help people get by

industry shut down, production shut down, want to observe, but have to pay rent, have to do underground shoot, or do something unsafe

fundraising mode, raised $150k for performers, crew members struggling under covid, started distributing

turns out , about half performers in industry, doing alright, through crisis, because of premiums, clips, cams, rise in traffic, porn has seen dramatic rise because of shut down, people being locked at home, revenues are up, performers the only ones that can really produces, studios/sets shuttered,

if home alone can make solo content, partnered with someone willing to be on camera, can shoot sex scenes

studios reaching out to couples in quarantine, can you shoot something, we’re running out of content

in some cases performers making more money than they have

not everybody in that position, if if you have a following, already set up,

crew is in worse position, no mainstream jobs, no adult jobs

challenging time for a lot of people

one thing to be stuck at home another thing to lose your income

long term effects of covid crisis, maybe performers are in more control than ever

massive growth in performer produced content

able to make decent or exceptional living performing own content, gives you more choice when studios open up as to what shoots you’re gonna take

if youd on’t have financial incentive to go on sets because you have own income…recurring billing, content make at home, no reason to go on set, unless you want to go on specific set unless fantasy of yours or something that will give a lot of attention

covid reorganize industry in that way

interesting in that regard

regard to sets, discussions we have on task force, geared toward how do we open up and how do we open up safely

industry in some ways is well positioned for this type of discussion we test already every 14 days, protocol for production shut downs, hiv, stis already have these discussions, already talk about going on set, making sure partners are tested, workable precautions

prevent transmission, body fluids, already sanitize sets, use gloves, some cases masks, crew member don’t want to get hit with fluids

ahead of game, most other industries

new challenge, with stis, decent assurance you’re gonna be safe on set, you’re tested, partner tested, everybody tested,

with covid, performer population may be tested, person at grocery store may not be, beach may not be

unlike hiv, fairly long time between contract and transmit, about 14 days, why our testing set up the way it is, with covid, potentially infectious 2 days after contract,

task force, in light of covid, what precautions, what guidelines, how they should shoot, how often they should test, that sort of thing, it has been a bit of a challenge

TP: I hear that, kudos for doing all that hard work, recently listening to podcast, mainstream scientific analysis, look to porn industry they’ve been doing this for a quite a while, at least for stis

Dr. Eric Ding, harvard epidemiologist, health economist, medical digest of news through his twitter feed,

don’t know chance of covid to be transmitted sexually, the male testicles, didn’t know, fun fact, immune from immune system, privileged, cytocine storm, immune system over reacts, can’t get into that part of male anatomy,

imagine the way zoom is blowing up, pass system open sourced so everybody is using it to go to grocery store

crew members into pass, not for stis, similar testing system around it, not just about scene partner,

as intimate as your relationship is going to be with your scene partner, right now no evidence it can be transmitted sexually, might appear in semen, not clear if would be transmitted sexually

for adult industry, what we’re facing, not different from hollywood love scene, same level of transmission

we’ve done a lot to tell other industries, we’ve got something, not sure how it’s gonna apply to covid, can tell you how the protocols are

sports team, grocery store,

haven’t had hiv transmission on pass regulated set since 2004, shoot 100s of thousands of scenes since then

something we know how to do, we can help you with it

TP: hopefully outcome, porn saves the day, people rejoice, have to pay respects

what would be the pitch for my listeners, diverse array, pay dues to support, become member, make donations, best way and why

gonna be a huge economic pressure for people who never considered camming, making content, by financial pressure, flooding into platforms to make new revenue stream

info for newbies?

MS: why you should support industry, we’re the canary in the coal mine, censors come after us before anybody else, regulations, whether adult content producer or not, they’re gonna come after you

go to website, set up small recurring donation, get clued in, newsletter, things like survey, understand going on, performer, producer, fan,

sustain organization, protect your rights

keep you informed as to issues that we face

go to free speech coalition, donation

new, inspire program, created by performers to performers, whether you should have an agent, how the testing system works,

webinar with people success in camming, clips, in premiums, brought 6 together, held webinar, all talk about how they got to where they were,

pros to ams, how do I get started, how often should I update, what’s biggest mistake, hour or so master class, how to get started, what to be weary of

tremendous time to be performer, you have more control than ever, so many platforms to do it, own your content, never used to be able to do

go to website become a member, get an alert when it does go up

follow on twitter, fsc army

dm us, tweet at us

very active on social media

TP: if major influx of people losing jobs, realize they can ethically and legally trade their labor and artisanship in adult industry for a livelihood, critical mass, decrim all sex work

fsc probably near front lines

can of works to open, final prayer final thought

close us out

MS: we are on the front lines of decriminalization, certainly support for sex workers across the board, partnered with various organizations

tremendously creative, really enjoy being a part of it, does feel like family

the more people we get in it the more the stigma decreases, thanks so much for having me

thanks for being a member

TP: thanks so much!

Vanessa Soulxo Collage

Greening Revolution and Rainbowing Spiritual Love with Vanessa Soulxo TPP286

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In this episode I’m joined again by Vanessa Soulxo for a soulful exploration of the deep cultural trauma that’s being purged and healed in the world

To join her Soul Church, it’s Sundays online at zoom at 1pm PST and here is the link:

http://us04web.zoom.us/j/6080174537?pwd=NzVDNDRhVU00ZFAxWUU4cVkyWlJydz09

Meeting id: 6080174537

Meeting password: unity

The suggested donation for the sustainability of “Soul Church,” is $20 at paypal: vanessasoulxo@gmail.com or cashapp: $VanessaSoulXo

About Vanessa:

Vanessa LeMaistre’s path has been unconventional. Broken from years of childhood sexual assault, not having a father to protect her and an ultimate lack of self-worth, she woke up at the age of 25 as a lost soul, having dated a mix of men, including prominent celebrities who didn’t respect her worth. Deciding to wake up and step into her path, Vanessa began to practice yoga and spiritually enlighten herself through a series of texts, before suffering a tragic loss of her son, Kamden at 9 months. Throughout her journey, Vanessa, a shaman, provides spiritual insight from her own diverse experiences and channels her late son to do so. If you’re looking for an unconventional take on wisdom to transform your life, please attend her Soul Church or contact her via gmail: vanessasoulxo@gmail.com to receive her services.

Please visit her website at:
vanessasoulxo.com/

My Non Verbatim Show Notes

TP: feeling blessed, compounding angel interest

your strategy, adapt church to online, inclusive non-hierarchal church space, colead, cofacilitate, forced to adapt to cyber space model, for a little while, got some ideas how to start building up fellowship, when things mellow out, have strong fellowship

VS:

happening a lot smoother than I thought, just graduated, logical thing get a job, use degree, not my path,

smoothly happening, took the call, go with alignment, what’s in alignment with my path, spread energy 9-5, spread soul thin, not my path, leap of faith, people can help build it up, I can’t do it by myself, if I should up if there’s one or two people, goal is to listen to the call, multiples of people can come, join in community, really about community, build bridges how to communicate,

unity in community, you see communities where there is no unity

friend, adopted, jewish, all about community, be honest with each other, solve a lot of problems, honest with ourselves, be there for each other, cultivate during a time like right now,

sense of urgency, set up communities

encourage, more individuals build community, stronger collective

switch things, hierarchal, old paradigm, going from capitalist mindset, to age of aquarius, excited for newer generation, more queer thinking,

swtiching out of putting everything in box

more multi-raced, how to do you put somebody in a box

community, accepting people, taking away biases, what can we learn from each other

allow to be vulnerable, egalitarian based

online, challenge, we’re not in a physical space, virtual container

curious how it’s gonna end up, could be really impactful

counsels, all my classes were counsels, professor wasn’t talking at us, we were running the show

never know what’s gonna pop off, speak honestly, speak from there heart, stand in power be fierce, use voice

hold power for someone else

white guy, going through what’s happening, what’s your suggestion for white privileged male

giving back to black communities, telling him, bluntly its time to give your power away

makes you more powerful, when you’re able to empower others

blacks in our country,have not been given opportunity to really shine, haven’t been given platforms, opportunity to be heard, most don’t get a chance to talk in groups, marginalized

more privileged people hold the power

excited, we can come together on line, really be real, cut the bullshit,

get questions, oh this is a church, what’s the doctrine, what’s your faith creed

I’m listening to sources call, asking how do you want me to bring people to you, root of this, really the goal, bringing them to the light, to connect to source within themselves

takes away black and white, male female gay straight,

how can you dress sexy and be taken seriously as a woman,

how can you not be both

break things down, we are switching from an older paradigm, no longer putting things in boxes

churches, judicial, educational

personal healing if we’re not doing something different, not changing, things are gonna be the same

different approach to church, no body wants to be churched at

TP: a lot of positive triggering and stimulating triggering as I’m listening to what you’re saying, all due respect,

for me to own my privilege, and disclose my bias as underclass white male who is straight passing, able passing, most part euro american mut, I don’t have any facial tatoos, put on suit and tie, hair cut, I could make my resume to the nonprofit sector, also corporate, if I had any minority cards to play, it would be that I’m not heteronormative, survivor, come from lower class, ptsd, a lot of invisible wounding that can be debilitating, impact ability to be type-a ceo, conquer of the world, the potential privilege appears on the surface, a lot more going on there

get it if I’m in the black and white

I’m okay with starting there, that’s what I’m passing as, if you want to get to know me, be curious, don’t have white fragility problem, I can take criticism, and blacklash

we may not have discussed before, good time to talk about all these things

instead of becoming a yuppie, I dropped out of the system and going movements mostly of people of color, all fighting for the underclass

solidarity with people no matter what race

people of color I’ve been in revolutionary organizations and projects with, covert operations as whitey

ways to use that power, give it back, be strategic about it

a few things come to mind based on what you’re saying, empowerment, new paradigm

outline a few things

one topic Ron Finley, guerilla gardening movement, almost 10 years ago, gangster gardener movement, bring people into understand that south central los angeles, food desert could be food forest

took over parkway, made strip of grass and weeds between curb and sidewalk, made into lush beautiful edible garden, community, educational, bounty

world class fashion designer, city came to fine him, tear it out, under estimated his sophisticated, marketer, green thumb, ted talk, more drive thrus than drive bys, killing people, kids who grow kale eat kale, plant some shit

leadership for minority community, highest co-morbidity, people of color, diabetes, obesity, health of community, empowerment

#blackcommunitygardensmatter

next level thing, I bow down to him got to hang out, talk shop, mulch

still rocking it, tearing up the headlines

you’ve mentioned permaculture as well in your works

that’s a topic

I want to go into your thoughts on the health crises, food choice, under class, people of color, gardening opportunities, ecological,

conspiracy of big companies, junk food

if we have time walk through some of ways that people of color who’ve been colonized by christianity, raped by gospel of christianity, reclaim sacred space of devotional activities, worship, navigate fact, people who are gonna not want to let go of that, on people like you to bring in medciine, plant medicine, new revelations, new chapters /gospels to the bible

me, nerdy white man intellectual, try to get down with the people and plant some shit

greening, movement, uprising right now

whatever direction hopefully influenced by people like you, lyrics of hip hop, consciousness, spirituality

VS: keep wanting to record reggae, positive conscious

for greening and next leveling of the movement, so much in that with permaculture, food justice, human rights, food justice, education, all those poor neighborhoods, filled with junk food, liquor stores, health food, don’t have it

set up unfitting way for blacks,

public schools, low funding, not taught how to do permaculture, ties in perfectly what you mentioned, people of color being raped by colonizers

psychologically, taking away opportunity for them to be educated,

paradoxical, most people of color ancestors operated on indigenous ways, permaculture to some degree, grow and plant own food

grandmother helped raised me, know which plants to take, go on walks, plants for certain teas, for ailments

taking away, stolen, brainwashed, psychologically, don’t have access to that education

cuba, sustainable, economy crashed, poorer countries really great models

teach kindergarten, how to plant

waldorf school, silicon tech heads send children to outdoor schools, eating mint leaves, fascinating, kids learn from early age how to have such a good food source for their health

benefit in so many ways

ancestors knew that

grandmothers 91, no health problems, ate naturally sourced foods in back yard

marginalized people, have been ripped from opportunity to be educated, should be on front lines of best education possible, compensate for robbery

spirituality, practicianers work with plants, medicine, witches, shamans, balancing the earth, not doing hexes

living harmonious ways, more intuned more health, mindful, what we’re intaking where’s it coming from

I think that’s really fascinating

overall global crises, eating cleaner, less pollution, climate, better systems set up in a way, poor neighborhoods, low access to health

people of color I know, southern comfort food, most people in family diabetes high cholesterol, fried chicken everyday, not educated

more people to educate others

TP: definitely taking about reggae, what means are there, we both agree, I’m humbly, deeply informed and moved by your experience, better than mine, horrible influences, horrible diet, health problems remedy through gardening

what the problem is, who needs the reparations

reggae, people say definitely homophobia in rastafarianism, what are edges of queerness within religion

reggae gone far being, roots of reggae coopted into more mainstream forms

positivity, vibration, influences, indigenous, african, also stuff from western theology

lyrics from Bob Marley’s,

every time I plant a seed, he said kill it before it grow

reggae, I think there’s revolutionizing of reggae that has to happen for it to be medicine for the people, the vibration of guns, violence, misogyny, rape culture, toxic masculinity

looking for people who are gonna take the ron finley lyrics, put beats behind them

Paris, revolutionary hip hop, personality, artist, paris, the coup, dead prez, a lot of reggae,

ice-t, chuck d, rebellious, got out to lower class white suburbs

so profoundly influenced, tried to get hair cut like favorite basket ball player

couldn’t be more of a fan of the culture of what was spoon fed to be

by the corporate pimps,

hegemonized bling culture

nino brown, new jack city, whole thing of trying to be the white corporate business man ceo, take over, how cool that is, a lot of spike lee stuff, shed some light on what’s in the mind of a would be conscious white man, wants to care, want to give back, find good in bad

make sense of things

a lot of putting on table for you to put me in my place, take me down a notch, riff, rhyme, other well meaning white people, I was raising my fist, so down for the cause, show me where I can join forces and not be an annoyance

VS: feeling you,

the fact that world has been operating to cater to your breed as top of totem pole,

you love black culture, raising fist, think our society stills breaths it, swims in it, billboards,

something revolutionary, collectively on global level has to shift from top tiers, people can see things differently

colorism, we have different levels to this

field….or in the house

confronted in circles all the time, black me say I’m the only black woman they would ever date, you’re good cuz your light enough, or too dark

brain washing of colorism, so fucked up

there’s black people who’ll take the side of white man, hate themselves so much

world didn’t favor to them, classism within racism, thinking to themselves, talk white, look a certain way, may not know how, may not want to sign up to do

job interview, get on phone speak more “white” or more proper

theory programmed into brains, white is right

mexican woman, family came from mexico, had to assimilate into america, hispanics, white passing,

dismantling, becoming really aware, seeing with clear eyes, this is what’s been happening, more people privileged, can claim their human right

like whatever you like, culture, food

makes world beautiful

a lot to be talked about

white women favored more tan darkest women in the room

so many beautiful beautiful black woman

love all people, exotic

men not all thugs, many educated

such a shame that we are underneath this mind control

so brainwashed

we’re just people, just human being, friend trans, I’m not gay, not trans, not drag queen, I’m a human being, make more sense, more in touch with reality

attachments, pain and trauma

we could learn a much more rapid rate,

learn when I travel, how people living their lives in their culture

we put up such barriers

you’re different you like that

I’m better society tells me there’s this superiority

black privileges, educated,

dismantling, I’m not better than any body

just human beings

memes right now, world in uproar

great, most action I’ve seen, people showing some form of pushback, end of day

how often are we checking with ourselves, not better than so and so, all equal, not about me

actualizing the fact we’re all equal all human

how reclaim sacred space, gathering fellowship worshiping, christianity

TP: either admit Jesus was black or stop talking about Jesus

VS: wouldn’t that solve everything,

why are you all so judgemental, least open minded people, I’m gonna have the most problems with christians

TP: researching cults, blind spots, you don’t know what to watch out for

permaculture, balance with weeds, medicinal, edible, listen, pay attention, not poison them, ecologically literate, patterns lead to corruption with power, how do you prevent becoming a cult of personality

saying, those who don’t die a hero, live long enough to become a villain, really scary, studying that stuff, I want to have fans not followers, because of my art

charles manson, david koresh, documentary on cults, reason manson set cult devotees to kill famous people, basically jealousy over his failed music career

its so interesting, I’m only feeling the hilarity of this, pitfalls and traps of nacissism, permaculture, too much capital, pollution in nature, power money wealth influence, redistribute reinvesting, you think I’m so good at something tell me about what you’re so good at, you’re as important as I am, I’ll scrub toilets, rotate positions of power

what if everybody in a church ceremony was given equal time

indigenous way, every body including a grandmother read medicine plants in the landscape

work to be done around figuring out how to honor everybody’s contributions

dating game, racial politics of sexual, economics and politics around body types, ethnicity, film, based on true story, talk radio, based on guy, Eric Bogosian, jewish shock jock radio host, killed by right wing racist, can’t remember all the details scenes of him being in radio booth

taking calls, offending people, offensive to bigots, pissing people off, death threats, hate mail

line from movie, wants to expose people subconscious actual worship of exotic people, you know how much money white people spend on tanning booths, tan lotion, white people feel sexually inferior

I have been upstaged, from deep voice, size of the junk, to swagger, strut, soul,

Jerry McGuire, white man can’t love

do you see that that’s people loving each other

tight lipped having tiny lips,

white guy I can say this shit, I can make fun of my kind

I’ll say there’s an inferiority complex around having small lips, high pitch whiny voices, flat butts, flat chests, skin that gets burnt in the sun, you can see the veins through it, reason I have to be jealous of sexual prowess of people of color and african people

things going on genetically, so honorable, worshipable, reconcile, how do we not leave people out

I don’t want to over…

people in my life who’d say you’re an evil bastard, part of the patriarchy because you do enjoy exotic partners, you’re fetishing the other,

actually that’s natural biodiversity, jungle fever, go out of tribe, all of the world, person form another region, boom boom time to diversify gene people, love sees no color, no separate races, fighting losing battle, urge is to you know, white settlers ran off into native villagers, token white refugees

so much native american /african american blood mixing

if we were more poly and open we would find ways to appreciate and honor and enjoy the diversity,

even the whole breast thing, beyond race, very honest answer, matt dillon, singles, white romanic comedy, small breast groupie girlfriend, seattle grunge rocker, hour glass syndrome, rocker feels entitled , shuns gf, comes full circle

she says to him, are my breasts to small for you, he says sometimes, very honest

subplot, scheduling self to get boob job, doctor: is this mr right or mr maybe

more honest sometimes im in the mood for this, diverse experience, go out for this restaurant, diversity of romantic, sexual experience

I don’t have enough of something for somebody for every, diverse array of people, everyone’s covered

valuing everybody at different way different times

taboo

VS: so many powerful things, commend you for being open so raw, something humans don’t honestly say on any context, oh I’m so jealous, takes away with what’s there

taking to my french gf last night, never thought about it like this, I think racism is all this small dick complex, screen shots poster, someone protesting said that

something about being open, it could be open, I’m jealous that this girl has whatever xyz, growth in putting in on table

accept differences

commend you for being honest, saying that

I don’t know what its like to be a white man, you have swag in your own way

so beautiful, being confident saying what you’re saying

so much, powerful, impactful

thank for allowing me to go off

I don’t think I’ve felt comfortable with any body else

this is the time to do opposite of being more divided

love to see queer orgy make outs in the streets

arrest me with love

racist, bludgeon with police night stick, do anything but be on knees worshipping

shadow of jealousy, napolean dick complex

VS: conversations like this, getting there, take away the fog, not hate black women, dark skin women so much

treated different, we’re not ignorant, people born smart in their own way

bold enough confront self with honest,

how can I love myself more

TP: if you love self, want to see best and most beautiful in everyone else

take care of yourself, already beautiful, already god/goddess divine, just take care of yourself

ensemble cast of lovers

winners and losers, either get the girl, princess or oppressed slave

I would love to a woman to say to me, I like you, but I love this and that, what if I bring a wing man, can we get it all on together, I’ll be your booking agent

everybody plays different roles

some people I’m mr friday, some people I’m mr tuesday, as long as I’m not mr never to anybody, is be fine, goes both ways

can’t we all just get along

that’s my trip, sorry, adults only in my church

good times

VS: that’s great

back to horrific, world of pain and suffering and agony and disaster, we’re having almost too much fun, to pray and feel into the real terror that people are experiencing now, grief, morning, poverty despair, lack of abundance,

we lathered up some good energy, how can we give it back

people suffering, better vibes

VS: really tough right now, a lot of heavy stuff, I’m excited for the church, excited to see how conversation gets led, we’re strong, it’s in our blood, we’ve had to survive times like this before, ancestors did, do have hope, keep chugging along, very proud as black person to witness black people handle this so beautifully

not talking about looters, distressed

tiny percentage, news casters portraying it was a big percentage, what I’m witnessing, majority of black people, very commendable, strength, don’t see war, yes there’s anger,

beautiful how blacks are giving their white allies the opportunity to step in and show up how they need to show up

whether getting on knees or holding a door

blacks welcoming this healing process, already in it

feels like a healing

different access, food , education, resilience in black community from ancestors, chugging along so beautifully, be seen, heard, stand in power, have it not be taken away or stomped on or ignored, brink of brand new horizon, brand new awakening

chance to rise

empowered community

finally getting opportunity to hopefully rise

this is very hopeful time

Shamanic Revolution 2.0 with Shonagh Home TPP96

Play

Sho

In this episode I’m joined by Shonagh Home, a high priestess of the sacred mushroom to whom I deeply bow! We have been allies for several years now and this is her second appearance on the show. We discuss cultural transformation, ecology, activism and more from a radical psychedelic shamanic perspective.

She blesses us with two powerful poems, and countless gems of insight with which to break spells, get well and get free!

About Shonagh:

Shonagh Home is a shamanic therapist, teacher, writer and poet. Her specialized private sessions and retreats are probing and revelatory, assisting clients to break chronic, self-defeating patterns, and move into empowered personal sovereignty. Shonagh is an international public speaker on the subject of visionary shamanic-spirit medicine, a voice for stewardship of the honeybees, and a teacher on the subject of Traditional Foods. She is author of the books, ‘Ix Chel Wisdom: 7 Teachings from the Mayan Sacred Feminine,’ ‘Love and Spirit Medicine,’ ‘Poetic Whispers from the Green Realms,’ and ‘Honeybee Wisdom: A Modern Melissa Speaks.’
Website:

http://www.shonaghhome.com/

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved welcome to Tantra Punk podcast episode number 96 it’s a distinguished honor I have here to be on Skype with Shana home who is one of the top mushroom priestesses is it living on Earth today and it’s been a serious hero enough mine and I deeply bow down to her we’ve been sort of parallel Journeys over the years and we did an interview discussion a few couple years back called shamanic Revolution we talked about her background so you can you can refer to that episode to get caught up on more of her life story and accomplishments M but we’re now just going to kind of roll into updates from what she’s been doing and in her you know sort of college in alchemical cauldron of spiritual intellectual development really sophisticated critique and understanding of what we’re up against and what some skills and tools some tactics we can use on the front lines of the shamanic Revolution to heal and liberate and Empower ourselves in each other and now more than ever I think our medicine is being sought out in your medicine for sure is of the highest quality so if you want to just say a few words what you been up to since we last talked and then I’m sure we’ll have lots of Defense at 2 to about what’s happening show but thank goodness I will say that I put a new book out recently called poetic Whispers from the green realm and I will definitely read some of that poetry and so there’s two chapters I wrote for that book and then there’s 50 some odd poems and so I will say that I never wrote poetry before I start working with the mushroom and I never didn’t and so a couple years after I start working with the mushroom and I think we’re now going on 5 years here poetry started coming to me and so when I started doing a little research you know to write the chapters for this book I discovered that the original poets were the shamans and that poetry NC igenex substances were directly connected to Poetic inspiration and so you know we have the editors of the Norse Traditions is lengthy poetic Mythic story and in there they speak of the Mead which is honey wine which was spiked it would be spiked with medicinal herbs that would be spiked with inebriating herbs and so it was it was said that whoever drinks from which becomes a poet or a scholar and then we have Soma art of India and that was also associated with poetic inspiration and then we have the Oracles of Delphi and DeDona and the delphic Oracle as they would whether they were breathing in the esalen gases that took them into hydrant States or they were actually drinking psychoactive Bundchen’s they would prophesy and poetic hexameter and so it is it’s a kind of meter you know like poetry is is metered know they’ll be no 3 4 lines you know and then there’s stanzas and what not and I mean it can be very intricate in intricate and how the poem is this is created and so you know some of the greatest poets where the The Bard’s from from my people that the Celts and those people studied for 15 years and nothing was written down and and then they were given the title Olam and and so these these folks were they had to memorize something like 20,000 different you know poems and and and and myths and stories and and what not and so an interesting ly something that the that I read in my research that The Bard’s would do is they would go into a very dark kind of Tavern Thai place and and then spend time there until they received poetic inspiration now that’s interesting because there is a practice that you can do to turn on the pie Neil to to turn on your own energy Mt where you stay in Pitch Darkness or you know. Of time whatever it is a few weeks if you let you know what your month or whatever it is and that will you know turn on your your DMT and so anyway I just thought it was very interesting but there is a quote goodbye Barbara tadlock PhD she wrote a book that I highly recommend called the woman in the Shaman’s body and she wrote that quote shamans are Sears oracles and Poets and their artistic language creates a healing path for their patients and and I love I love that cuz I really I realized I live in the spirit of that you know I can I have the ability to communicate I have the ability to write and now it’s results of my work with the mushroom I have the ability to essentially Channel this gorgeous poetry and end so you have come into connection I speak very candidly about this with these Spirit intelligences through my work with seat mushroom and and you know that was you know long known to shamanic people be there earlier paean people or you know the Maya were in Africa where you know you connect with no the plant teacher and or Atwell a tutelary spirit a spirit that will and intelligence that will teach you and and which comes which came first I like to ask the mushroom for the shaman right so Apprentice myself to the mushroom in those beings have been teaching me and so so yes so this just beautiful poetry has been coming force and I’m so now when I work with the mushroom I will you know just have a digital recorder with me and I speak the way I’m speaking you now but it’s totally poetry it’s the beings speaking through and everything Rhymes and it just flows and so a mutual friend of ours came to work with me something that I’m also doing now as I am doing one-on-one Retreats and it’s for 4 days and that person comes and stays in my arm and I feed them and I teach them and we go very very very deep and you know ceremony in the whole deal it sits and it is highly transformative and so this person you and I know came in August and that happened to be over the August full moon and so you know there was one night where ceremony occurred and she was good to go and for the next 2 hours I just whispered into my recorder and and it was the the elves speaking through me and so I I’m starting to speak more candidly about this because really what I see that I am is a fairy Shaman and now I am not talking about Tinkerbell and I am and I’m not talking about the Victorian gossamer Wings little you know sexy Pixies no no no no no no no no the FAE were long known to the Irish and the Scottish people and also you know the Scandinavians and and you know there are tribes in Africa who speak of nature spirits who are are very similar in resemblance to these what they are is there ancient nature intelligences and it’s the thought they were ancestral or that our ancestors you know went to the fairy Realms when they passed and in Ireland they are known as the tuatha de danaan and it’s Friday Donna and was a race of Godlike beings they were very very high magicians and they lived in Ireland for a time until the sons of Mill showed up and there was a battle and and a two-headed on and lost that battle and so they retreated below into the Mounds and and into they were in a living beneath the Earth but there was you know you could communicate with them and so so yeah so I was deeply in connection with these beings as I have been on the on the mushroom in any case then in September I went to Scotland and it was a pilgrimage for me and I save my shackles and went out there and I went to the outer Hebrides Scotland and spent time and ancient stone circles and there with no mushroom and believe I actually had the mushroom but I wasn’t able to use it when I was there I was able to procure it there but I wasn’t able to use it and I thought this is very interesting cuz I knew this was heart of a Acela learning I was receiving that deer you know you don’t have to have it you know you’ve been turned on you know cuz it does change you forever and so and they said the gates you will stand before will open and so I would stand in the circle tonight I just I take my digital recorder with me everywhere cuz I never know when this poetry is going to flow and it just absolutely flowed through me when I was there no mushroom necessary and then when I came home from Scotland I essentially brought what I was told her new mentors home with me and and I was when I would wake up in the morning as I was Awakening they were speaking to me and poetry and so I was bringing my digital recorder to bed with me so that in the morning as the poem came through I could speak it and so I will share because I think this will really speak to you and there is it’s truly beautiful and and I don’t write like this you know but the way they play with words is is quite something and the and the Poetry is deeply encoded and so up I want to read this yeah I think you will you evil quite appreciate this so I called his old Spirits speak and say this is what they said that’s exactly what they fear of that you realize what you’re made of the constructs is a sorcerer spell designed by those who know full well the power of their words of art they can initiate the start of any Trend that they designed to keep the flock they watch in line change will come when mine start opening then the dawn of what you were hoping we’ll and Sue to shift the pace this death march by the human race must be reversed that’s why we’re here deceptions Mists we pledge to clear each of you has been assigned a royal play to realign the threads that we’ve this current hell your actions here will fare quite well to shift the subtle frequencies so more spoke begin to see with inner eye to realize the tricks by those who are disguised as well-known personalities who manipulates the crowd with these lists years is a hologram and we deliver telegram that though the claws have dug in deep and though the masses are asleep eval was made far in the past that it is time we raise our Mast and sail into the stormy sea to raise our great Humanity to Heights once thought and possibly ambitious for such an undertaking yes this has been most painstaking though right now more of you waking this the time we’ve been awaiting see their fear all that surveillance see the One World dark Alliance they are under the impression they’re above divisive action which they spread among the crowd cups divided lost and proud but they cannot control each other they are going to have one mother of a vast Rift all among their Web of Lies that they have strong this tears we’ve been counting on in the meantime spread your song of what can be when hearts are strong and minds are clear to Virgil angst the many who are so confused their precious Souls have being abused and so the magic that you carry isn’t simply airy-fairy this tear has for long been crafted by the lifetimes you’ve and acted now it’s your moment all of you we will give more than a few instructions clever that he’ll use take your folk Beyond this ruse never let your good Hearts waiver in those temples lives the Saviour you awakened ones of light Illuminating this Dark Knight and Gathering wants more to cast a spell you’ve trained for that has vast effects upon this sacred place that’s home to many kinds of race now all the gateways open here’s the moment you’ve been hoping will occur on planet Earth songs were written of this birth that Springs forth from within the mind a realization of the kind that holds the course dramatically when of a sudden people see this thing’s electric think how fast when switch is flipped the light is Cass and everything you didn’t see is now before you quite clearly how many changes coming near Children of the light don’t fear but rather senior gifts with joy and with good wisdom you’ll destroy the spell that captivates the many what you carry Concord anything that they have up their sleeve you simply in your mind conceive of what you were before you came and when you realize you are the same will deers consider that in mind and ancient spell you will unbind the great wand of antiquity is buried where you cannot see where you’ve been taught to look outside and not within where it resides you are ready now to find the Holy Grail within your mind the sacred places you have been hold keys there that remain unseen unless you trained for many lives to cut through Darkness with your knives those sorts of light you hold with Grace look in the mirror at your face look in your eyes that dance there light you a warrior here to fight a battle that is ancient old and now the time stories told when Beauty beings Fair install will once again appear to all and help you dear ones at this time he’d the power of this rhyme for this is just the start of things as people of the fairy rings cast their magic spells around so once more Earthly folk can found a time of peace upon this Earth a time when you are good folk can birth the frequencies of living grace who’s energies will heal this place is so amazing so beautiful I just want to resurrect Jim Hanson to make this into a hole production or has got to be a new wave of children’s books and cartoons and action figures and dolls and roll out I’ve always felt that you were the one to be the wisdom keeper and sort of the the one that those whatever artistic needs that you would like to have a team above the crew built around you to take this type of narration and make it into every form of physical object media format whatever so that it can actually compete and as is memes that mean it’s all it’s all the way in a very detached kind of social scientific way of looking at things I mean whether you know whatever esoteric tradition you followers or not it’s really you want to have wholesome regenerative ecological you know fashion and lifestyle and everything that people just sort of consume I mean it’s just a matter of making a better option available that puts the the less sustainable or desirable options obsolete so I next thing I want to ask you is of the women and the mothers you know who were trying to design a mythology about what’s happening on Earth what do you mean you’re one of them right so I just can only imagine how difficult it would be to be taking responsibility for Parenthood with a shamanic perspective and ecological perspective if you no excetera you know how and how do you how do you translate this into into the kinds of resources and Tool kits that would be needed for new in an entirely new alternative educational system that actually has a I mean like what you could be doing the Waldorf of shamanic K through 12 you know but based on all this stuff I mean I don’t even know you know what’s out there so if that makes any sense as a question you know if this is how do we get the audience to grow for what you’re channeling okay so first of all turn off your TV throw it out I would say be very very careful with media you know there’s so much you know that I know now that I didn’t know when I first had my children right and and it is amazing to think also you know this this how much technology has taken over our lives you know since then and it’s a double-edged sword do you know on one hand you can glean a lot of great information on another thing it’s another and it’s kind of like the wild west cuz there’s a lot of garbage to sort through as well and and it can be very addictive and level up in any case you know I would have done some things very differently you know had I known back then I have two daughters 16 and 19 you know what I know now for so I would not have vaccinated them I know that’s it something if heated debate but I will say that you know he human beings have managed to live on this Earth and pretty harsh conditions you know for a very very very long time and you know with no vaccines and and as someone who knows quite a lot has researched a tremendous amount on on ancestral Foods you know our ancestors were way stronger than we are today we are pretty much a shadow at this point you know of what we used to be you know is physical strength and emotional and mental wherewithal and Clarity and all of that you know so you know the good news is you know we can call that back by embracing Foods we used to eat but you know just good luck trying to find milk if it’s you know illegal in your state blah blah blah but you know so I would not have had my girls vaccinated and I wish I knew about traditional foods you know what I know now back then you know cuz I would have done that differently as well and I would have homeschooled and so I think it is very important to understand you know this is this is about breaking spells and everything that we’ve been told that we’ve been raised under has been you know presented to us and our parents and our grandparents okay by this we’re in a commercial system and and so it controls our education it controls our media you know certain interest within their now there’s the comedian George Carlin does a fantastic feel and this is stand-up comedy and holy shit like this was no joke he’s talking about education and why it will never change and he’s like people you need to understand something right now you know you are owned you are owned and these politicians those are just those are just figureheads put there so that you think you owe me I vote for this guy I have some amount of power here he’s like the real people with the you know the Reigns of Power are hidden they’re not out there they’re not in your gossip magazines and what not and they own everything they own the land you live on that you know they they put together the institutions and this and this and this and and so it’s a very important to to really start to take a wide view and start to see this the system for what it is and and start to say okay you know what I am no longer going to you don’t give Credence to you know what the FDA says or the CDC or you know what whatever and it doesn’t matter who becomes president you know all these people crying cuz Hillary didn’t win she’s a disgusting Pig so and so’s Trump okay look essentially the Clinton crime family didn’t win the Trump crime family won this is a criminal Syndicate and also divide and conquer goes back to Rome and Beyond look how polarized we are ban look how polarized we are oh my God and God forbid oh my God anyone say oh yeah you know I actually do like you know that one thing Trump is doing all my God people will jump all over that person right and I just been sitting back looking watching back and forth back and forth going people this is the oldest trick so they keep the silly mughals fighting among themselves whether it’s pro-choice or pro-life or republican Democrat liberal conservative as always two sides there’s never a third is there it’s just always to fight fight fight you know and that’s why I don’t I don’t go into the two end of the feminist vote either I’m like nope I’m not going there I’m not feminist I’m not I say we all we all need to respect each other and treat each other well and raise our children that way I mean the golden rule is pretty easy to understand you know you treat others the way you yourself would be treated and at the same time don’t be a fool you know because there are a lot of bad people out there as well but anyway I think I’m going off his attention here but in any case so yeah so taking that step back and starting to see the constructs for what it is and realize something everybody that you know we have lost our mythology we have lost our tribes we have lost connection to our old gods and goddesses you know what I think of the Scottish people I mostly Scottish you know there was a huge battle that the Scots my people fought in the 1700s they fought you know the Brits who wear whatever controlled by Rome or whatever the deal with that this is God’s got their asses handed to them on a platter with a very bloody battle and they just massacred that man in that after that battle so much was lost in that culture and then the Scots were not allowed to wear their Clan Kilts their tartans or something like 56 years if they were caught they were sent out of the country or punished severely so you know what that’s so in other words and so here we are in this Melting Pot which were told oh yeah let’s Embrace diversity everybody you know what it is it’s just putting us all into a corporate sameness and so everybody is losing their culture I don’t care if you’re Chinese or you know American Indian Scottish or what we’re all you know losing touch and so then and then so when you do that when you do that to a people then essentially the government think your will be your new god listen to us and we will create the institutions will create the education will create the media and and I’m not setting to Media is a weapon television the reason why I don’t have a television and I don’t want you know what I can’t I can’t even watch movies anymore because I can see the social engineering and so this is sorcery sorcery is manipulation and so television you’re telling a vision and then what are you watching on the television program and then interesting Lee what do you do what do you change to watch a different program to channel okay and then media is too short for a medium a medium another thing for a medium bring through you know Spirit entities and what not and so this medium is bringing through you know these programs and of course you go into a trance just like a medium does go into a light trance makes you very suggestive and then all sorts of programming and all of those family fun shows and even those clever shows you think are soaked you know I can’t even think of the Grey’s Anatomy and all that horseshit they’re loaded it’s all programming to get you to identify with those characters in that oh yeah that’s how things are you know that’s how that’s how it is and so it’s all inducting you into this sort of way of being and also so in other words we used to tell stories we used to tell stories do you know I realized I realized I could check this out I realize this a few weeks ago or last month it occurred to me oh my God I was initiated into the Celtic Mysteries by my Irish Grandma who is off the boat from Ireland should full Irish accent and she was a master Storyteller will the Irish have been known for that you know Master storytellers their storytellers in every culture but you know that I was really been known for this and she would speak very quietly so we’d have to show and listen to these Amazing Stories and she tells stories about that the fairies and The Kelpies and the Banshees and she was an amazing Storyteller and and then I call my mom later that day I said hey you know it occurred to me I told her that and my mom said I cannot believe you’re calling with me me with a Shana guess what today is an I said what and she said today is your grandmother’s birthday she’s been dead for years you know I didn’t know in any case but so you know we would we would share the stories of our ancestors and astrology and so all of that has been okay and so with that then you know you have children growing up identifying with their folk right and feeling like I am part of this and this is magical and this is ancient and there’s heroes in this lineage and there’s you know this and this and now would we have with TV so it’s not that hard it’s not that great of a leap of logic right to imagine that adults would reaxis some of that imaginary fun making Instinct rape American coach Leisure we would look down on play and we look down on make-believe and so we decide that’s just for children and it’s not for grown ups and I think that that’s a really horrible horrible perspectives of the world cuz you’re only a child for a very very brief point of your life and you’re an adult for a really really long part of your life and wouldn’t I don’t want to stop playing would you want to grow up ever and so yeah I think of BDSM I think erotic play I feel like yeah it’s just this extension of your creativity and artistic and Tristan and your means of expressing yourself and now you get to have sex so why wouldn’t you add that and everything else thank you for helping to frame it that way cuz that it’s it’s so it’s easier to digest when you when I just have never heard that what that phrase before but it just erotic play being obviously it means that you could incorporate more than just your one monogamous married partner that’s just still only allowed that culturally they by the mainstream the idea of being sexually playful with a group of people in the community of people as a social activity like a cocktail party or a mixer or I mean why can’t you believe make break into play make-believe you know the okay fine I just I’m this is my partner this is the only person I’m going to have sex with her I’m going to be in love with or however you’re defining that but I can pretend for the next hour or two that there’s someone I’ve never met before or that there a superhero or that a magical being or whatever and that can really shift your erotic interest in your erotic pleasure I think you probably would be able to say that it will make a lot of relationships last longer and be more Pap more healthier happier for sustainable resilient cuz you’re not getting bored and giving up and going you know stoic that’s great so do you have a key tell it tell me more about the center and how it how it runs and functions is it kind of like a drop-in center or do you have only certain events at certain times or how does the facility time work out we don’t actually have a physical location most of it exists inside my laptop and out of and that means we don’t have to pay for rent so that’s why we go to where we need to go so you know we have regular meetings happen in my house or one of the other board members houses we do have some events here and there are a lot of our fundraisers or just online to make it easier to reach as many people as possible and of course we’re trying to reach a broader audience than just Los Angeles so we Skype workshops we Skype things we’ve talked to classes in New York and classes in Idaho and you know all over the place so you know we do a lot of different things we also have an academic Journal that you’re positive sexuality it’s free it’s open access anyone is welcome to use it and read it and submit work to it and you know that’s been going we’re now in our third year of publication of that and that is hitting a worldwide audience some of the countries that are accessing this are it’s all over in Australia and in Belgium and in various parts of the UK and it’s hitting parts of Asia Japan so it’s really really great so we have a very wide reach and what we do we have approximately 50 to 60 volunteers who work with us we also have an internship program so we get college students who want internship credits or what the work experience and so they volunteer for a specific. Of time and work on specific projects for us at different times of the year we get most of our interns during the summer but we get interns year-round and we have in our volunteers so we have Educators we have people who are research Affiliates and who published research and use the center is one of their professional affiliations we have research assistants who helped them we do you work with events so we do some Outreach events I think on Wednesday we’re going to UCLA sextravaganza which is been happening for several years on UCLA’s campus that we usually set up a booth are we do that with other things around town we’ve also have members some of our volunteers go to conferences all over the world and represent us at different places and in different areas where they were very popular in Melbourne just found out from a friend who’s been living in Australia for past couple years so I can’t I guess we’ll have to go there at some point cool it’s a new cloud-based model it’s elegant and overhead in the neighborhood drama and that there’s a lot of reasons to transcend that six location and you can if you can be a mobile you know unit then you can just take your your your laptop and projector and some you know what your handouts or whatever you have in this b a and again because true using Skype and using other types of internet programs you know we can get into a classroom you know that might not be able to bring us there physically but we can still do it will set it up on our end and and just stream live stream wherever we need to be and and it’s very helpful to cuz we so we have volunteers I think are farthest away volunteer that we’ve had so far was in Trinidad so we can have volunteers from anywhere in the world who can work with us medication programs and so they help us Creator update or education resources in our reference materials and putting together things to help teachers facilitate this in their classes they might actually be one of our Educators we train people to go out to those classes and to give presentations to places we have research assistants to make come in with a certain amount of background knowledge and how to do academic research and some come in just wanted to learn it and so we trained them and they work with people who are doing research in various aspects of positive sexuality and so some of them get to co-author papers and some of them get to work on the ground floor of research happening and get to really get into what that is and have a voice and have an influence in what’s being done in the academic world and this is course then starts to affect policy when we’re putting scientific research in front of people and saying here this is what the says that’s not the correct or let them besides these aspects and that can be very very helpful we work with other organizations so and CSF the National Coalition for sexual freedom is one of our sort of co-working his nation’s the community academic Consortium for research on alternative sexualities we work with them as well yeah I’m getting chills yeah I’m getting chills cuz this is a lot more than I bargained for and actually seeking a lot of what you’re describing and to have yeah we hope we have a good bit of time last time feeling compelled to ask you a little bit about I guess hey if you’re into taboos right blowing them there is all I ever believed starting this week there’s going to be the biggest psychedelic science conference in the history of humanity happening in the Bay Area it’s put together by that multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies and the there’s a lot of really important cutting-edge legal for the first time in decades studies happening all over the world with psilocybin you know I gave magic mushrooms and MDMA and Ayahuasca and marijuana and peyote and I will gain a number of other synthetic and natural organic you could say psychedelic compounds in a lot of it is at this point in this stage of the Renaissance of research it’s really about proving the safety the relative safety of different compounds getting the dosage to be sort of understood better at also having some really important clinical trials around ending ending addiction to harmful drugs ending cigarette addiction end-of-life anxiety sexual abuse and Trauma and PTSD from War veterans there’s all these different the demographics that are starting to have really groundbreaking results and they’re doing you know they’re putting in the millions of dollars to do the the research for all this and so I bring that up just to say that this is an interesting juncture for me because the a cultural cliche about sex drugs and rock and roll and you know the way that the culture of inebrians is starting to move a large part due to Raves and festivals it’s moving more towards entheogens than just Coke and heroin and meth and booze there’s more opportunities for people who are coming into their sexuality to have access to psychedelic experiences and so there’s the new Alchemy of innocent in these Generations between sex drugs and rock and roll and if it’s it’s it’s it’s a lot more sophisticated and advanced and and and just more diverse in many ways than it was in the 60s when it was you know Acid Rock and LSD and other birth of the the hippie movement in the 60s but I’m wondering if you have in your position they’re come across any any any people who are interested in in rigorous academic study of what this new sex and drugs and rock and roll Paradigm it is shaping up to become if there’s anyone interested in that that you know of he’s been there are definitely people who are starting who are doing research on these topics and very often the connection that ends up happening in the academic research is you know if we’re looking at the sex drugs and rock and roll that of course is going to look at the outcomes and too often I think the the outcome that gets stressed is okay so what’s the what’s the public health issue so is it possible or is it likely that people are might be transmitting STIs because they might be under the influence of something or maybe they can’t we do we have to worry about consent if someone is under the influence of something that then means that they cannot now consent to what happens at that point so what happens if everybody who’s involved have done that so where does that line get drawn so I think a lot of the issues that have come up in recent research has been either on public health topics around STI transmission or on consent topics recognizing that at least by law if someone is inebriated for example they can now no longer consent to sexual activity okay so what happens if everybody involved. That’s so interesting yet that’s exactly what I’ve been actually encountering and in just by life experiences it’s there’s there’s a lot of people now who were you can say you were having expanded Consciousness through empty agentic use meaning it’s kind of a nice way of saying psychedelic no drugs but but that’s an important consideration because just because you feel like you’re enlightened than that one with God doesn’t mean that you’re immune from being the perpetrator with that Enlightenment that you don’t think you have a potential for abuse and even if it’s not that sort of shady you know where that sort of Insidious there’s also just the issue you’re not in your body if you’re having an out-of-body ecstatic psychedelic experience how how do you get even if you can send it to the idea of something earlier in the evening that has to be held through somehow and if you lose the if you become somebody else or part of your higher self or whatever it could be theirs that’s some chicky territory for sure yeah so that’s I guess there’s you know that I’ve seen like at electronic dance music events you can call him Rave but that’s kind of more you know probably more accurate term these days cuz there’s within that whole world there’s different camps and it’s more no more more bride to just called electronic dance music these days but you know there is there’s sort of harm reduction education Outreach groups that put out one sheet kind of look like glass CD mailer cards you know about business matters and they have kind of a profile of what the different substances how did how to test and make sure that they’re real or are what you’re getting it like that there’s that whole harm reduction education Outreach approach that is kind of like what you’re talking about but it’s for the party scene in just for best and better practices around that but I could see that they’re being a sum interest group of people where they would want to see things the way you’re talking about it cuz I actually no way you’re framing it it it feels like there’s a lot more due diligence for people that want to be credible and respectable and using best practices to actually think with some of these analytical tools so I’m hoping you’ll be great if there was some overlap or or or Synergy with all this stuff I think more and more what is happening as we’re seeing the people who are actually involved in all of these different spaces you know the people were actually doing whatever it is we’re talking about having more influence on the research that’s being conducted so that it creates a more authentic overall experience and I think it adds a level of legitimacy to the research so rather than a researcher sort of from on high saying well I’m going to study this group and I think what they’re doing may not be safe and so we know the perspective that I’m going to come about with this is that well this is already inherently unsafe and now I’m going to show you why it’s in safe and I think more and more we have researchers who are in these communities who are in these faces or doing all of these things and you say you know maybe we need to do is talk to the people who were actually doing this and not talk to them with a preconceived notion of what’s going on or what they’re experiencing or what may be happening but go in just as a hey could give us some information to tell us about what’s happening and I think we’re seeing more of that so there has been research on for example like barebacking and there’s been research on sex workers experiences and there’s been research on sort of the the spiritual some of the spiritual Connections in the spiritual extremes that can be experienced through extreme SM activities light hookah coals and those kinds of things so we’re seeing more and more of that happening where people who are actually in these groups are part of the subcultures are also crossovers into the academic life and we’re just seeing an amazing amount of research that starting to Bubble to the surface and get a little bit of space. I think this research has been getting done for quite a while but it can be really hard to get it published because some of the academic Publishers don’t want to hear about it and I want you to my is any of these things so if they publish something on it they want to be really careful so with our journal and with some of the other journals out there we’ve been able to bridge. Cap and actually be able to show some I feel like more authentic stories well absolutely will now in this world have so many The Gatekeepers being dissolved by the power of the internet I feel like you know there’s a lot of bad journalism or untrained journalism so there’s got to be a lot of bad or untrained or Incredible or uncredible research but maybe it’s the methodology that can be what’s the word sort of feel like I could imagine what as you were speaking I was imagining will wouldn’t it be great to train the you know that like the anthropological participation observation ethnography kind of model but if you were to train if you were coming from that subculture and you wanted to sort of document your tribe and produce your own ethnography kind of amongst your friends kind of tabulate experiences and collect notes insured compare notes is there was you recommend any kind of Crash Course doing data collection for different types of research paper I’m doing ethnography in the field and sort of how that works and how you can sort of pull everything together there’s a really good little guidebooks you know a quick online search for for some of these guys are out there and ask her if she is amazing stuff I love doing a photography by the way I think it’s an incredible tool that doesn’t get use nearly enough and and it got a lot of researchers a colleague of mine she recently did a photographic ethnographic working with lgbtq Foster Youth and homeless Youth and kind of went out gave them all cameras and said take photographs of Your World of your life of who you are, and they did a whole art show you know like found a gallery in Downtown LA and just played everyone’s photographs and and you know really got people connected to them and seeing them as people who have life experiences and they’re not just sort of a category of disadvantaged kids so yeah I think there’s there’s an easy guide books out there just like a quick you can find some quick little things of how to do ethnography and how to do that and but I think a lot of that to starts with her own storytelling so things that you do and things that others do and and all the bloggers out there and everything of these are all forms of ethnography relay yeah that’s cool it’s just that it’s exciting and hopeful cuz I feel that I’m at a point where I’m doing kind of pseudo-scientific Rogue radical research that’s way too far out for any government agency or any academic institution to touch with a ten-foot pole so it’s it’s kind of on me and my colleagues and friends 2 do this sort of underground research but then hope that it it’s done in a way that it can be respectable or it can be legitimated later you know but it is probably good to do what you’re suggesting and actually have some some templates for collecting the data that mean okay here’s what would our experiment yielded and here’s the methodology in the procedure and you can test it on your own Hardy or lab or whatever replicate what you’ve done and so can you give enough information that would allow somebody else to replicate and get similar results in their own place or find totally different results which is also fascinating injured and interesting and yeah and I think that’s really I mean that’s science that is science Sciences pushing boundaries and science is you now let’s try a new thing and see what happens and science is telling a new story or New Perspective of a story and you know I think that that’s been lost over the past many years Society The Sciences inquiry science is asking questions and wondering why thing happens and how something happens and trying to figure that out and I think that we’ve sort of collectively as a larger society have sort of lost that Focus write the word crowdsourced crowd-source funding crowdsourced ideas and editing and an art I mean you were talking about that at that photo gallery exhibit and that’s a great example if you would call that a crowd-sourced ethnographic oh yeah photojournalism nice oh yeah that’s cool that’s that’s exciting time so I’m also wondering now do you have do you do you or your organization the Center provide any kind of consulting services or any kind of where you could be hired or you could be sort of commissioned to do research or to consult on Research I don’t know that we’re I don’t know that anybody is really hired to do research cuz wouldn’t it be fantastic if someone will pay for that but that doesn’t happen if we do get hired as consultants for a variety of things so either individuals within the organization or the collective organization May consult on certain projects or consult on like creative curriculum for a particular thing and we have individuals who are consulted on court cases and I’m legal issues so so there’s a lot of that we also get hired by professionals like to teach professional workshops on various topics so that happens as well because we’re a nonprofit although those things are often we you know ask for fee cuz usually the people who were asking for these services are people who can pay for it but what going out to the schools we’re going to colleges in touch or we have a student group asked us to come and do something with them or like what you know we go to somebody’s community of answer something we may ask for an honorarium but we’re going to do this stuff for free so we really depend on our donors and our contributors and the people who support us to kind of give us the funding that we need in order to do what we want to do and and to publishing and all the other stuff so our journals available for free most of our Outreach staff and education program is all for free so yeah a lot of what we do depends on donations as opposed to people actually hiring us officially to do something right on that sounds like a healthy well-rounded multi Revenue stream nonprofit you’re definitely fulfilling your mission in so many beautiful dimensions and I’m just really happy to know that we’ve connected to some really feel better about living in the world with you more offline 2 just to explore some of these Consulting opportunities that you have and see what we’re about and all of that stuff were completely volunteer so none of us are paid for what we do I don’t run a paycheck nobody wants a paycheck that’s completely volunteer and yeah we’re just we’re just trying to let you know we just try to bring it enough funds to keep going and to keep doing what we’re doing and to expand so we’re actually going to be expanding our face-to-face education program out to Chicago over the next few months so Craig can you do that that’s well thank you so much that’s great I feel like it’s it’s really refreshing to to hear that there are people out there who are so dedicated to the cause that it’s that you did not just going to slam the door in your face if you don’t write a check if you know the first five minutes if you’re not going to bill me for this podcast interview right now about an hour into it is do you have a sort of committee or task force or team or just even a person who is either because they are a trauma Survivor or because it’s just near and dear to their hearts whatever reason is there you do consent workshops in self-defense or rape and assault prevention and any any more of the or any any of the sort of preventative and treatment kind of education unpreparedness we do have programs around consent we don’t really specifically talk about self defense or or right prevention in the standard sense so we don’t really talk about here’s what you can do to prevent being raped we talked about here’s what you can do to not rape someone because really this is not on the victim this is on the perpetrator but we also talked about you know here’s other ways that you might think about your sexual self and your identity in the power dynamics that you may interact with and find consensual outlets for some of your interests and behaviors and the citiz and you know we talked about a wide range of those things so it would be great if the people who are doing the Rape Crisis counseling and who are just in the trenches of dealing with battered women and in and going in and and doing you know investigations to catch meant to prosecute the perpetrators of all ages if they were I would let it would be great if in it you know in a perfect world they were seeking you all to educate themselves on better prevention and better version or diversion from the criminal whole that the response like they’re coming as the First Responders two incidents that would have been prevented by a proper education on all sides right and we do have we do have information so some of our researchers and and because we have people who are social workers who have conducted research through us who have published on how to do how to have a sex positive approach to handling victims how to have a sex positive approach to handling offenders and that these approaches can really help reduce crime can reduce negative stigma can reduce it comes cool is that would that be on your website or at some if I if I can follow up with you later cool okay well alright I feel like it’s this is yes. A real blessing and I just want to thank you again for your time and generous sharing of great info so with that said do you want to give the website and any other maybe upcoming events or anything else you’d like to promote and the website is positive sexuality. Org journal and that’s Journal of positive sexuality. Org we have our anniversary party coming up this July so if you want to be invited and want to be a part of that anniversary party will be a fundraiser you can contact me at Emily Emily at positive sexuality. Org or you can go to our website and put in your email address and then you’re on our newsletter list and you’ll get information through our newsletter about our party and we’re hoping we’re putting together an academic conference for next year so look on our website check things out if you go to sex pause khan.com so s e x p o s c o n. Com there’s going to be updated information they’re probably starting in the next couple of weeks for our positive sexuality conference coming up in 2018 in Burbank all right that’s very exciting thank you again yeah that’s me alright thank you so much again and I will hopefully I’ll be in touch soon thank you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite sex if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at kontrapunkt. Com Thomas gay