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Discussing Religion, Permaculture, and Pandemics with Mike Kokal TPP260

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In this episode I’m joined by Mike Kokal of the End of the Road podcast for a free style discussion about the intersections of religion, permaculture, and pandemics

About Mike:

Mike Kokal is the host of the End of the Road Podcast which showcases an eclectic mix of guests working with ordinary and non-ordinary states of consciousness in the finite playground we all find ourselves in: “The Horizons we strive to touch but are already there.”

Mike is also practices civil litigation and is a patent attorney. His professional bio can be found at: https://secure.heylroyster.com/attorneys/details.cfm?attorneyID=90

The End of the Road Podcast, which is nearing 100 episodes, can be found here are wherever you listen to podcasts: https://endoftheroad.libsyn.com/

My Non Verbatim Show Notes

Current events strategy, don’t have a tv, don’t know if that makes me a luddite

don’t like to watch news, 24 hour news cycle on tv

I like bbc service, somewhere between bbc and economist seems to be much more objective than nbc, fox

haven’t compared statistics to prior outbreaks, spanish influenza, killed a lot more people than recent outbreaks

haven’t really studied it, the new social media interfacing with that, changing the narrative or not

happened before historically, originally had state laws for mandatory vaccinations, resistances to that, if we’re talking about martial law, court cases developed since then, in the wake of that

not something I’ve studied in any detail, precedent of state being able to dictate that you must receive this or that

united states in a lot of ways is the bread basket for the world, immediate needs we’re fortunate here, more or less self sufficient with oil

we have enough food, less fortunate countries dependent on outside aid, most drastic effect on economy

grew up in wyoming, canned goods, bottled water, everything came in was fresh

I guess I have not being participated in disaster preparedness

I started going to a church, come across the minister, civic groups, 99% african american church, minister, very thoughtful definitely get good vibes from him, last sermon on book of revelations of the bible, psychedelic adventure going through hell, fragmented snakes and demons, believes we’re approaching the end times

put on the clock of god, shed the trappings of evil, you could interpret that as to how our society is so removed from any of the basic hardships that most people throughout history have suffered

huge homeless problems, but what would happen if there really were systemic disruptions of service, how would be react, bring people together, honor and helping each other

I think just about every age they’ve always thought they were going through the end times

if the gates of hell our unleashed, revelation, sun melts thing, global warming, could be something to that

what does it mean to get yourself right with god, seeing life in more spiritual terms, brush with organized church in the past hasn’t been the best, a lot of truth in the original messages, reframe in a way that doesn’t involve rape

the trauma is all around us, some of us put up walls for one reason or another, so many people in the u.s. and the world in that predicament

it’s all around us, it is now, what do we do about it

all these people that are there are us, we’re sharing in their journey, it’s still there, what responsibility does that have, do we stock pile, prepare

maybe I’m just waiting for the answer, seems like there’s something, it’s right here, homeless problem right here

it’s been bringing people in the community together, everybody feels it

haven’t been able to fashion a long range thing, does put something in the air, spawned different community groups, whether we want to face it or not it’s there, there is suffering

affects you even if you live in a gated community

facinated by christian idea of service, the simple, the old mother teresa, franciscan way of serving people, see god in everything, go to the leper colonies, serve the poorest of the poor see that those people are god

very shamanic, recognizing, we’re all part of the same body, when you take care of the people who are the most needy,

there is a lot of overlap in the fundamental christian messages and the shamanic messages that are very powerful

humans are always looking for that new thing, speaking more to myself, grew up in catholic background, new appreciation by shamanic means, entheogens,

we think we’re discovering something new, but just going back to where we’re starting from

love, peace, service, basic messages, a lot of mainline christian groups in united states, a lot of beauty in that

I have this knee jerk reaction, the church doesn’t let women participated in the priesthood, or priest telling me what to do

messages in scriptures a lot of practices beautiful

what kind of messages really resonates with me

what I think is appealing to some of the shamanic messages, why I think they’re getting more popularity in this area

when you do a medicine ceremony, shaman isn’t telling you what to do, they’re just singing a song, the icaros

if you were a leader of a church or something, not so much be pedantic, or even thinking you have a flock, that you need to pastor to, within yourself you create this music, not so much the content, but the love and the energy, such a beautiful metaphor for future leaders

not worry about telling people things, but rather just serving people, creating the music to foster people’s positive energy

seeing the god in the other person, the god within you

shouldn’t single out priests, even somebody like us on a podcast talking about stuff

struggling with in my own life, what is my truth, what is my messages, what is my song, why am I doing this podcast

started off, interested in interviewing other people, socratic method, listening to them talk, asking them questions, within interjecting my own anything, what exactly is our role as a person

two daughters, what do I tell them about how to act, do I tell them no you shouldn’t do this, how do you convey the message in your own family

just create your own song that makes people want to join in on your song, not projecting energy outward, oh I have this truth and you need to see it to, more intangible, its an energetic thing almost

I still like to go to churches to hang out and feel the energy

if you’re in a concert, when you have a group of people sharing, all able to participate, not just one person lecturing, everybody passing around the rock, participate in the dialog, share something important to them

with social media, increased connectedness learn to capitalize on that and bring it together allow people to share their own voice, without the old model the priest was leading the flock, politician leading the flock, everybody

for me its an energetic thing, not so much based on content, there is a role that you do have to say something, not just it, when I was doing zen practice, go in for an interview with the zen priest they ask you coans or different things, always one response is silence, I always kept getting prompted to say, what is your voice, can sit there a bump on a log, its your life, participate in a meaningful way, you’re not gonna reinvent the wheel

part of my practice is to become more grounded, what better way to ground than in the ground, your shit is interconnected to everything, reconnecting you to the universe, you’re not separating from it, your shit is a fertilizers that grows the food you eat in a wonderful cycle

a lot of my practices are to intentionally reconnect myself

priests, men of god, good intentions, I just had the feeling the church as a whole was resisting reconciliation with victims, law suits, that’s the way our society deals with these transgressions

it doesn’t solve the priest trauma, that they obviously experienced to propagate more trauma on the victims if the church would admit it’s fault

that really should be the mission of the church, priests are part of the divine, victims are part of the divine, perpetrators, victims alike, not to shield themselves

just say my heart goes out to everybody in that trauma cycle