In this episode I’m joined by one of my favorite podcast hosts Lorenzo Hagerty of the Psychedelic Salon podcast. A dear friend turned me on to the podcast back in 2008, I binge listened to catch up and have been on board ever since. Lorenzo’s endearing charm, sharp wit, and scathing critiques of the dominator culture all all of its systems have made me a big fan of the show. It was a great honor to be able to explore the depth of his personal life journey and discuss an array of crypto-anarchist and techno-shamanic histories and futures. Finally, we compare notes and speculate on some of Terrence Mckenna’s attitudes towards psychedelics and tantric spirituality.
After our discussion, I include a spoken word piece I recorded called “McKennisms” which is my reading of several of my favorite Terence Mckenna quotes from the many lectures on the Psychedelic Salon that I’ve taken notes on over the years.
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Lorenzo Hagerty is currently best known as the host of the Psychedelic Salon podcast. He came to podcasting through a circuitous route that included being a writer, keynote speaker, and Internet/e-Commerce consultant. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering from the University of Notre Dame and a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree from the University of Houston. His eclectic career also included being a sailing instructor, Naval officer, hot air balloon pilot, electrical engineer, and lawyer. In August of 2017 he celebrated his 75th birthday.
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello Jay beloved’s welcome to Township on podcast episode number 126 I am joined by Lorenzo Hagerty the host of the Psychedelic Salon podcast and this is such a treat for me I must say because I have been a fan for many years now I’ve listened to the entire podcast backlog and it’s really the best curated sort of audio Museum of all things psychedelic guy that have been recorded an audio and it really is a treasure chest of information and an education entertainment and one of the best audio Archives of Terence McKenna’s talks amongst many other Visionaries and leaders of the Psychedelic movement different waves throughout the recent decades and Lorenzo has been that he’s always given bits of information about his personal life and and pathan story and it’s just fascinating everything has come through and so I really thought it would be great service to give Renzo a chance to just kind of consolidate and speak openly about his personal path and what led him to this world has been playing to curate all this content and its really a it’s really empowering and it’s itchy I get I just can’t thank you enough for Enzo for creating this resource in really holding a being a scribe and and holding the space for for the Psychedelic Society to really take hold this is scaffolding of it and so many people have to have been able to gain so much from your work in here with that said that if you just like to introduce yourself and then start wherever you want about your life stories just people can get it a good sense of your your personal Journey okay that’s the first Twilight I think we got to give all the thanks really to you know Terence McKenna Timothy Leary and all of the all of the speakers. Of planking aren’t they in their lectures to me this is a hobby to play their lectures and I put some of my commentary out there but the bulk of the information is all coming from these other people so you know I don’t deserve all the credit for that because I like listening to this stuff and I said well I’ll just play it actually I got into podcasting accidentally I I’ve been I’ve been giving some speeches or talks I should say at the various and Sundry conferences like mine States and and I’d started the Palenque Norte lecture series at Burning Man in a burning man has had one or two talks given before but I 2003 my wife and I built a whole series with Derrick Davis and Alex and Allyson grey and and Daniel pinchbeck and Bruce damer and a whole lot of people like that an extra middle lecture series out of it and that’s still going on I don’t I’ve been to Burning Man myself since 2007 but a bunch of younger people have picked it up and so the planking Norte series is going on and what has happened is is that first one back in 2003 I this is before podcasting and so I took the audio of that look it up in 2 hours of audio I broke it up into little 10 minutes segments of the files be small enough to download because you know there was no no procedure for it then and at the a mine States conference friend of mine said hey I’m going to start podcasting can I use your stuff from Palenque and I said sure and then after months went by and nothing happened I got a hold of me as well and I’m not going to do it after all I said well then you won’t mind if I do it because course not your stuff can I put the first one out and then the next one and the next one and and I was just really playing with the technology cuz I’m Kiki and over time it just started building and then it was came all got a hold of me and the dope fiend over in London and the three of us all three were doing podcast kind of reinforced one another in made it through actually came home and I are still podcasting a dope fiend has gone on to other things but it was really kind of interesting back in the beginning cuz nobody really know what podcasting was going to evolve into and I try to keep it as a hobby I’ve never even use Google ads on my site you know it’s I get donations from people from time to time is it it’s been enough to keep us going I’ve had in the beginning I had to put a little out of pocket but instead of break you in and so real comfortable and so it’s it’s a community thing and you know I don’t keep logs I don’t do advertising because a lot of our listeners are kind of young or their insensitive jobs like in the military or police force and track my Google and all these other companies so I tried to keep it clean that way but I never started out in the beginning of my life I I just turned 75 last week and it never occurred to me that in my old age I would be raised in the midwest now is what’s now Chicago suburb is a little town outside of Chicago and I was an Irish Catholic kid in a little tight box and I was born free baby boomer I was at War baby born in 1942 and so we were kind of stuck in that that awkward place to where your parents were the the depression generation and we wanted to please him I was the oldest son had one younger brother and and he got into the baby boom generation he came in 47 and we really had a lot of differences in the in the way we grew up in any vaults but I Tire I found myself at the age of 42 president of a computer company in Dallas Texas and I was an Irish Catholic Republican lawyer that was in nineteen Nineteen Eighty-Four when MDMA or at the time on the street is called ecstasy was legal and a lot of people are aware of it cuz ecstasy you don’t evolve into all kinds of names and Molly and stuff like that but the original pure MDMA hit the streets in Dallas of all places where it was used a lot on the west coast and therapy thousands literally thousands of therapists have been trained to use it in their sessions it was all legal and here I was in in the heart of the Bible of the Buckle of the Bible Belt and running a computer company in midlife crisis and stuff like that and the friend of mine got a hold of me and said hey have you heard of ecstasy and I said no what is it and I said well it’s a new drug that’s legal in Dallas where is all happening in so long story short mutual friends end up eventually became a drug dealer and I was using the sales of that to cash flow my computer company but it became legal and lot of things happened so I had to leave Dallas I went to Florida and lay low for a while but that was the beginning of my psychedelic career I was 42 years old Vietnam veteran lawyer Texas lawyer had never never smoke cannabis in. I was on the straight and narrow and then then I found MDMA and my life changed completely wow so what kind of what kind of something I found really fascinating as a flu season over the years is that you have a very strategic position to understand this these new dimensions of empowerment and decentralisation through web-based technology you’ve been a programmer or developer and there’s a lot happening in quote cyberdelic space to call when your terms then. I’m curious what what type of what was your path into Computing in your path into programming and development in and how is that in college I took I think we had two options take to computer course I graduated in 1964 and the computer that we learn 9 was an IBM 1620 it but I was just fascinated with computers but then you know after college I did a little quick stint as a stuntman in the movies and then I to dodge the I join the Navy and spent four years in the Navy and and yeah I was just on that track is in law school went back to finish law school practice law but all this time I was just fascinated with computers and so by this time I’m living up in Dallas working with a multi-level marketing company in and I had this I don’t think I’ve ever told I had this perfect system I thought to manage money while you’re playing craps and I wanted to I wanted to go to Vegas and beat the craps table but I needed a computer to test this thing out and this is mrs. before the the TRS trash80 before anything the Apple I think the apple one was out and I don’t think the Apple II and come out yet but I I bought it a salt 20 and head that soldered all together myself and and I programmed it and I started working on it and just one thing led to another and like I said I was doing multi marketing and I thought she you know these computers take a lot of explaining to tell people about it so I private labeled the exidy Sorcerer And started a multi-level marketing company in and I never got back to my project with a crap table and Stephanie I had had 3000 part-time Distributors around the country and you know I had a four-color picture and story in Forbes Magazine made the front page of the Wall Street Journal and then IBM got in the business and crushed us like a bug but so I was I was from then on you know I had to know I started my own computer company in then it went out of business along with a lot of us knew each other the beginning Ash is great fun and and I have no regrets about that and actually I’m kind of glad that we got forced out of the business because she is a real Cutthroat business but long story short after Many Adventures and winding up in Florida through a series of I became the Verizon I became their internet evangelist and I had first of all I had I’d started their first multi computer-based training CBT they hadn’t done any of that I put their first big manual on CD-ROM you know I did a lot of stuff I got into the end of of data services in wound up being the internet evangelist for the company and they just will be around the world to speak at conferences it was it was like the best job I ever had nice expense account lot of money I was single no girlfriend and I went down to this conference and Palenque Mexico with Terence McKenna Slater I left my job and I was living out here in the west coast so long story short Hunter wants told me they couldn’t help me because I had no career path and that’s really true you know I’ve been a electrical engineer and a lawyer and a computer programmer and a motivational speaker and a business owner a stuntman in the movies in the sailing instructor and a hot air balloon pilot commercial I got a commercial came Palenque and I came out here to California met my wife in Palenque and and I moved out here in July of 99 I took a leave of absence from Verizon and I just never made it back so I don’t know if I’m officially retired or not but can I complain about the phone company every bit as much as everybody else and I even did when I worked for him so but you know I was in the right place at the right time for many things for example in Dallas that was Ground Zero for MDMA and then when I got involved with the Verizon it’s when they bought BBM but bolt bernacki and Newman the company that built the first router and really started the internet 69 and so I got to work with and meet some of those people like the guy that came up with the at sign for email and stuff like that you know so I got to hear some of those old stories and eventually I wrote a book called The Spirit of the internet that is still may be the only book that talks about the internet is being a psychedelic experience because in many ways it is just means mind-manifesting and but you can trip on the internet to spend three days playing a game wow that’s amazing so you say you were transformed and brought it with you at all done a fine with hippie culture or environmentalism or anything I’m just curious what the what really soften and open your heart to Gaia the guy in mind and all of the Eco memes that that Terrance was famous for now. Did you have some kind of melting experience do Ayahuasca or trip to some beautiful place or just curious and I was always sympathetic to the the hippie movement in in high school I read beat literature I was big fan of the beets and and actually on hoses January 14th 1967 I was an Ensign in the Navy I was married had a three-year-old son and my ship was in the shipyard in Hunters Point which we had to drive through there are several times a week and then just had the major first big major US Senate race riot was in Hunters Point in October that year 66 anyhow I’m at morning January 14th is a Saturday and on weekends my now ex-wife and I would take our little boy down to the lake at Golden Gate Park to feed the ducks and geese and this particular morning we noticed a lot of lot of freaks and buy more people there that was the day of the BM and we left the parking around 10 I need to be in was wrong one it was little difference anyhow you know I knew that was going on and I was living in San Francisco at the time and it’s saying all these hippies and we were getting ready to go over to Vietnam and you know I’ve done enough reading to know that I joined the Navy to. Dodge the draft without the draft I wouldn’t have done that and here I was stuck with a four-year commitment the Navy and heading to war and seeing all these peace love and hippies that you know I never never forgot that feeling about boy did I make a wrong turn somewhere and so when I had my first MDMA experience in 84 and people don’t realize this and I’ve had almost everybody I’ve helped on their first experience say the same thing everybody’s expecting some kind of a you know freaky drug experience with every white Wavy Gravy lines and all but MDMA done right the first thing people say is you know I felt like this before it was when I was really young on a beautiful summer day or something like that and it brings you back to to that state and I was at a point in my life like I said I was 42 years old my company was having cash flow problems and marriage wasn’t as sound as it should have been and all of the stuff goes on at that point in somebody’s life hit me at the same time and then I found MDMA and it it was just such a transformative experience my my wife at the time and I start doing it together and and centrally is couples therapy I did it with some Vietnam vets and had some some therapy and I decided that I didn’t know how but this was an area of my life I was somehow going to pursue shoe and actually back then in in 86 I started corresponding with the Rick doblin even before he started Maps he was about the only person in that you can find who is standing up in public and talking about it at the time and I just kind of had a shirttail relationship to the the after I left Dallas to the whole scene a friend of mine live in the country house in Tampa at the time and a friend of mine live in the country in Outback in behind this house has helped field and the Cow Patties heavy little mushrooms growing on them so we had all kinds of magic mushroom trips and stuff and so at the time he was a couple years older than me in and we thought we were the only two people our age that we’re still doing psychedelics that’s how disconnected we were in the Mundo 2010 it was this article by guy named Terence McKenna now this is in in 1994 is the first time I’ve heard of Terence McKenna and he was in that Mando thing was several years later in 98 I was I got a bunch of junk mail and and there was just nothing from Omega Institute never is Terence McKenna you know I was single had money lot of vacation time so I went up to Omega to experience Terence McKenna and that was for real life experience in first conversation I had with him he said you need to go to Palenque and I did and change my life my wife was Charlie Groves research nurse for his psilocybin in the life study and she know she’s been she’s been going to Terence McKenna lectures since 1982 and we got quickly involved in a really good group of people out here in the coast and LA area call Kathleen work at a seminar us out of Salon Kathleen Salon is a third Friday of every month and in Venice and it was amazing how she had all kinds of people come and talk and you know it it reminds me somewhat of a what my vision of a communist cell meeting in Chicago in the 30s or something rash but you know one of the guys is there I’m blocking his name now but he’s the professor I forget where he’s teaching now maybe he’s on the East Coast but he was at UCLA and he’s the guy that wrote the medical marijuana law for the state of Washington which is a real tragedy I think I was very good job but the Gnostic Bishop from LA on night he shows up and he’s he’s this Old Gentleman and he’s he’s all dressed up the pretty fancy has a vest on a Watch chain and a real thick accent and and I thought this is going to be pretty boring and he starts out with his thick Hungarian accent and says LSD is the most important thing that ever happened to me so I met so many people through that salon and send Myron stolaroff and Myron was really one of the key figures in in the 60s that a book called what the Dormouse said give him credit with three other people for starting the whole personal computer Revolution his hand up it was running the Menlo Park Institute which was where over 300 oil 350 some people went through there but it was it was to take LSD two and can’ts creativity and most of the Homebrew Computer Club went through their the Xerox Parc people went through their the SR I went through all of these people in Silicon Valley Heavy’s LSD experiences but they did it so differently there then what’s going on today is that I think you had to go through several weeks of training before your LSD trip and you had to go out for some kind of therapy sessions and they gave him carbogen to to feel the experience and a short blast and garbage and something people aren’t aware of but it was was used back in the in the 50s and 60s in LSD research so that before a subject took LSD they would give him a carbogen trip and it says 75% oxygen and 25% carbon dioxide and I’ve never done it but apparently I’ve talked to both Myron and Duncan blue and to Jim fadiman and they say that it is a very much like maybe five or 600 mic Acid trip but it only lasts for a matter of minutes and you know you don’t know how to read you’re not going to get this information and so painting a mural in a community where the art is available to everybody and you can just stand in front of it and be curious feel sad feel happy feel whatever it is and ignite your curiosity for your own research that is insanely powerful and I know that because I have cried in front of murals I have taken pictures in front of murals at that made me realize something about myself and that is one aspect right off the the the massive descale Arts that can that can provide a message for an entire community in the other aspect is supporting these artists you know myself and then everybody else who I see struggling so much to do what they love and they’re so good at it and and disciplined enough wells in the right hands is an opportunity for us to fill up every single block of the chain you note for the artist to paint if that’s what they want to do the visual artist want a fan or the artist want to make music or the artist who I want to create experiences that are interactive and then for the people who are good at managing and just love discovering and helping and connecting to do just that and do not have to do all the other things and for the web developers to develop the west side I see just amongst my own friends and connections here how much energy and time we’re wasting by not working together and so the more people I meet in the blockchain crypto blockchain connection space the more I want to all of us to do our shows and commercials together because it makes no sense for everybody to be spending their energy resources in in building a website if you hate billing website you know like if you want to paint just paint and then we’ll find people to build a website for you and and I’ve encountered a lot of people fear based in this space who are all about competition and want to do their nails and they don’t want anything to do with other brands and then I encourage I mean I’ve encountered so many more people on the collaborative side and that’s where an archipelago what I felt that are not a couple, but I felt like ripping psychedelic people were down to connect and they said yes to all the projects and let’s get on a phone call and it doesn’t matter who you are or where you come from if you want to help and it’ll I’m supposed to let you know and that is really refreshing and I think that’s the the Psychedelic or open-minded or meditation more expensive way of looking at this movement also go do you want to talk more about to just practicing meditation and what sort of how your your spiritual processes and maybe tips you have for people who are coming into here wanting to participate in this technology space and an actually starting to you know they say the first time you start to have some actual games in your cryptocurrency portfolio than I can say from experience I just want to give my life to the movement because it’s changed my life so much and I want to just be a service but I’m not a coder and I’m not really I’m kind of a wannabe geek so imagine making this cultural Ambassador you know doing that like if we were talking about him in franchising people you have said yes to Justin tips about what it’s like to be adapting to this new that mean you’re providing a platform for people to express themselves in your finding people like me who you know I’m nobody in this world and at the same time I very I feel like I’m a very important piece of the puzzle and I haven’t always felt that way my own SoCal you wasn’t where it’s at and I you know I need the others and you need the others and so you already doing so much and I really appreciate you reaching out and wanting to give a voice to people like me who maybe you’re not on the you know I feel like I’m behind the scenes a lot and now you can’t necessarily reach out to to you know I don’t know bigger a larger what it’s called platforms and say Authority terribly I need to speak on this or be on a panel specifically and yet at the same time so many opportunities like this have presented themselves to me like being on humans of Bitcoin or the libertarian Radio free talk live or your show and so many others and so it’s it’s such a beautiful synchronous synchronicity how we all find each other and I’m being hard open to supporting each other and that’s what it’s all about so to me when people ask me what is a blockchain artist what makes you a crypto artist or what how can I get involved in this way if I don’t have any coding skills or if I don’t have any if I don’t feel like a nerd at hard or any or if I don’t have any connection the truth is that most of the people that are even curious about this movement or that believe in Freedom are already a part of this movement you know what I mean and it’s just lack of Education or lack of information and lack of system or container though it’s being created right now and so anything that you care about and if you respect freedom and the evolution of humankind through compassion and love that is blockchain with me and I know it sounds really extreme for some people but it’s really is I mean if your yoga teacher you can download and secure whatever wallet of your choice I love Edge they you know they just upgraded to their shape-shifting converting application which I didn’t have before and I just downloaded it and it’s my favorite wallets I always recommend that you use in a hot while they’re on your phone you can just download something like that in three seconds and all of a sudden your yoga teacher who takes crypto you know what I mean it in Seoul I’m in this is what I do at my my events like that we have the exist festival.com for South by Southwest and is not an official South by event is a disruptive one because even though I love songs by and I painted a giant mural for South by that’s going to be showing at the Expo Center for Austin Rodeo I love what they’re doing so many ways they’ve also turn down quite a few female speakers for the blockchain panel and I don’t know enough about what they’re doing and I’m sure there’s reasons why everybody dusted the things I do but I think it’s important to set up other events are outside of the you know of the gates of South by in the rules and so on so that’s what we do at our events you know we set up a men’s where where we can bring in a bunch of artists who have never heard of a crypto before or who are interested in it and teach him how to download a wallet and then make their sales are there vending whatever they’re running t-shirts and arts and whatever in crypto in there you got like that’s all it takes so when I get on an Uber or Lyft or Rideshare I asked them if they take crypto and they look at me like I’m crazy then I showed them how to download the wallet and then I took them in crypto and when I go to any any local shop or any restaurant I just automatically always ask do you take pepto and they just look at me confused and then they ask and then I tell them and so it’s just word of mouth and that’s it very small way in which and how we can educate each other just ask about it as if it’s part of your normal life because to me and to you it is you know and so the more people we have on the system to better that easier we’re all going to to evolve within this I don’t know if the answer is exactly the question who want to just be ya be a part of the movement and and adapt and actually alter reality one day at a time just with whatever means you have you know yeah that’s exciting is that you know I’ve had I’ve had a similar kind of weather journey of just wanting to onboard friends and just get people excited about it and really the best way to do it is just to get them started with some in just a few or I’m going to split the mule and give you your you know percentage of Crypt or whatever and and that just gets that gets the party started for for anybody and I see why you’re talking I was imagining they’re being a i y bet there’s got to be some art galleries in the world that just give what is QR codes on every piece so in case you don’t want to buy it you can just tip the artist while you’re there be a white of all the art that I’m so like thrilled to behold in my eyes when I go to an art gallery I would go in there with a budget to tip all the all the artist that I thought really blew my mind you know that’s a whole number and thank you for saying that because I seriously have been wanting to make a video on this for so long thank you for reminding me I want I want all the spray paint artist mural is due to get a QR code stencil and so many times that I’ve been moved by a mural and I yeah you can buy it and you can buy a piece by the artist I’m just freaking said man like $1 a hundred people $1 and then you go home and the artist girl out in the world like how insanely amazing about education if nobody told me that I could do better if I wasn’t a part of this movement I would not have either. So yes I think every Gallery should have a key or code next to their pieces for sure and hopefully work making it easier and easier to have these things be more accessible and just like you said you know split a meal and pay in in crypto just like you would do with venmo or PayPal is very easy and another thing that I think is important to mention is that at first when Bitcoin came out in the early adopters now that Bitcoin was more like a Welsh holding system and still now you know it’s people assume that that you have to have a lot of money to get into crypto but I love the people at and dash dash people talked about this a lot and then cash and Litecoin you don’t fast transaction this is a system that I believe in I’m so tired of using Banks and I’m so tired of using Fiat I don’t want it anymore so I don’t actually hold its on a crypto I’m not at a point where my Abundant Life reflects in my in my wallet but I do get to use crypto every day to do my everyday things and every time a little more and so even if you just want to download a wallet and put 10 bucks into either or 10 bucks into like going or Dash or whatever your favorite currency is just put it there and do nothing with it and check it again in a month and see what happens or just how about you don’t have something like $100 and whenever you go do something if they take crypto you can transfer that and just start really small it’s it’s such a mountain of information that I can be very overwhelming I sign up for a steaming a couple a couple weeks ago and I’ve heard about steemit for for those of you who don’t know it’s a platform like it has all these different channels you can blog writing you can put up videos it’s basically a decent realized turn off all the social media that we use today so right now if you comment on YouTube or Facebook or Twitter or Instagram you don’t get paid for your value and reviewing people’s content but on steemit you basically get rewarded for being an active member of the community you get paid for voting for curating and you can receive a lot of steam power and crypto money basically for producing good content that is useful to people and it cannot be tamed innocence other than by the users and the population and so it’s a really amazing system in everyone’s use it for a long time but I was kind of intimidating by it finally I made an account into two and a half weeks to clear which is insane and and I’ve been getting super overwhelmed with learning how to use it and I just try to continue to watch one video day and do little things at a time and in no time I’ll be an expert you know that’s all it takes so just I hope that people don’t get over Round And if you’re curious just continue learning just a little bit at a time you don’t have to be an expert overnight exactly. I’m glad yes team is amazing and probably going to totally crush it on there just is it doing writing published his stuff it’s been specially in the crypto space is people that it’s amazing some of the mounts you can get off of that and it shows you how big data is really extracting so much value from users of platforms and it’s it’s it’s not going to be long before just because it’s free means that you just give them all your data and sign away the property rights and all that stuff is is going to be replaced by this micropayment ecosystems where people can support each other you know value in the content that they consume and and being really well well supported in and I think it’s going to do the asking to do a lot of amazing some of her friends yesterday we were talking about all them you know thousands of jobs disappearing as robots take over and Singularity and all the stuff and at some point in my life I was really concerned about this you know yet where are aliens off drivers truck drivers going to go when we have also if driving cars do you know all the stuff but the answer is blanching all these people will be doing things in blockchain I will be getting paid well for it and it’ll take less time and I mean from the Tim Ferriss 4-Hour Work Week on and everything. Having high developments off technology and be more efficient with our time does not mean that we is not does not need to be scary you know there’s a lot of stuff within fast Evolution that is that is concerning to me specially how fast were developing and growing and how our security initiatives are not all the party yet and I think we’re getting there so there’s a lot of concern of course but anyting however I don’t think that we all really grasp or we’re starting to now how how much we really don’t have to work 90 hours a week or whatever the ridiculous things we do you know that the whole point of this is that micro payments and micro contributions from everybody involved will react what time for us to to be humans to exist to just let me know this is such an interesting new development in the sort of f have that imprint of a techno dystopia since childhood from all the Sci-Fi and I watched it and then you know you imagine this world where humans are made up sleep by robotic technology and Ai and I’ve been pretty sure that those prospects especially now is drones of coming to the picture and now I really feel like it as of this moment this kind of is really the undeniable presence in the now of both of those dystopic seems coming coming nauseous to come to life but coming into existence but then as you’re saying which is actually so Redemptive for sheep the human soul is that like she was an example something might you might have some thoughts on as far as empowerment but it’s like the the sort of this myth of the scarcity of worthwhile productive labor that can be done with from picking up trash to planting trees to cleaning up toxic waste like through the blockchain micropayments and sort of micro temporary employment contracts that can really enfranchise all the homeless people to get a micro crypto payment without actually showing up and waiting in line to get in the welfare program or get into a you know some sort of job placement program you can just be like you know you show up on the there’s some spill like a whip there’s some kind of cleanup has to happen and people can just mop it and and have day labor crypto payments and there will really never be a gap between meaningful work and and fair pay and there’s plenty of wealth in the crypto world alone to finance stuff like that and even if you know whether it’s through a nonprofit system or through taxes done I mean I’m not going to endorse taxes in general but but you kind of know what I’m saying so how do you feel about that you feel like that’s the direction we’re going to go and there are so many projects that have mind-blowing for example the green miners are looking into mining basically with all green energy from turning trash into clean energy so that things like Bitcoin mining don’t have to take resources as we know them now and there are so many projects in the space for cleaning up the oceans and cleaning up the air and I’m bringing food to the right places and replanting trees and replenishing the soil I mean there if you think of any good initiatives going on in the world for every single one of them there is at least one crypto person who is trying to intercept and connect and there are some barriers you know like the the extreme hippies and I don’t mean that in any negative or positive connotation specifically just outside another word to use like the Crypt on earth and the cryptic Crypt of hippies and all these people like hippies like me back in the day when I when I was in Turkish hippie confused and all of this integrating technology and really scared of it I never imagined in my life that I would be here talking about technology I like but at the same time I see like you said you know how directly this has impacted my life I live a better life I can eat better food because I have my bills taken care of more often because I am connecting projects that feed my soul in that feed my pocket and and it’s just it’s just acknowledge he’s not going anywhere so yes hearing drones zooming around in the air concerns me especially there’s no privacy laws about this and I’m sure I am in plenty of videos just public random videos of people have of course all that is concerning to me but at the same time if I can get drones to massively plant trees and water them creating on cleaning water and stain of away and replenishing the Salt Lake of course I want that also so it’s a fine balance you knowing yeah there’s just there’s just so many opportunities and I’m a very hopeful first person you know and Technologies not going anywhere in the craziest disasters are going on in the world are very real and I’m very aware of my privilege and I’m honored for just being able to be a voice and a part of this movement in any way but if you are truly concerned if you’re a person sitting there and you are really really against technology my best advice to you is to get involved you know what I mean just get involved and make sure that our our moral compasses are still true and that our time is being used efficiently because while I think it’s piercing experiencing abundance is a really healing thing for our communities that happen monkey trained into scar City and fear so I think that having lavish parties in exotic places when they are led by the right Compass when we’re doing no trash Left Behind when we’re also feeding and in helping those communities those are beautiful experiences I think also it’s very easy to fall into the you know greedy egotistical side of things and so we can be people on the sidelines criticizing this movement or we can just Dive Dive Right In whichever way feels comfortable to you and try to help from within you know absolutely yeah amazing so do you want to take can you talk a bit about you know obviously not to be tokenizing but I was really thrilled to know that Amanda B Johnson is the spokes person for Dash and they have a sort of a in the dash consensus system they’re they’re holding their whole their whole technological platform on the basis of it there’s money allocated in there sitting there a crypto economic ecosystems to support people in in roles as delegates and Advocates and Educators and I’m I’m wondering if you have some thoughts on connecting with or have you connected with women in crypto and just having more solidarity and more initiatives that are women lead and women find it and having the the voice and the the wisdom of Sisterhood in the crypto space which is is seriously it’s I don’t know I wouldn’t say this that I understand to be hyper sexist or it’s just a typically gender imbalance in technology for various reasons of course and but this is one of the most inviting and open-minded for thinking space is so I’m just curious if you have thoughts understand that aspect I do and I just want to throw in really quickly that Dash is doing some incredible incredible things to use this new currency in the everyday lives of people and changing a lot I mean I spoke with Danny the other day from the Crypt of showing radio station and just some of the projects he shared with me that they’re doing going to orphanage orphanage is camping outside open and to defend that old homes and rebuilding after after earthquakes all of these weren’t the weather doing in Mexico and helping people from the US and for Mexico to send each other Dash instead of Fiat you know making it super useful super accessible for them and actually turning crypto into into resources are they need whether it’s a new fan for their ceiling or food or whatever and so they are doing a lot of work right on the ground and putting you know when ATMs in crypto ATM there just it is amazing to see this dystopian Society for good and bad is already here as completely I mean crypto is already being used in so many daily activities all the time so much more that we know and I know that documentaries are being created and they will be available to all of us soon and every time more but there is so much more happening than we even inside are aware of you know every time I talk with anybody is it blows my mind all the projects are going on in and that this is the Hood part of it is another one and there are all these telegram groups going around some of them are called crypto women badass women in blockchain you know he’s different name there’s this group on Facebook called crypto queens and I have found some amazing amazing humans are working with the UN and women investing in women and funding each other’s projects and the Miami Conference the North America Miami Conference Bitcoin conference I had this one person run up to me this woman and she said hi sister if you’re a woman here I pretty much want to connect with you and she added me to his telegram group and I stole that from her in the best possible way so every time I’m at any blockchain event I run up to the women and I said Hey sister if you’re a woman in the space I want to connect with you and it’s just so beautiful and so I may be 5 or 10 different groups that are all women in blockchain and art projects in blockchain it is it is really unbelievable I’m actually really excited for the South by Southwest there is a bunch of the crypto Queens are coming down we’ve been talking about doing a documentary about women in crypto and I just hope that I get to interview them 10 minutes with each one in super supportive so it’s been quite interesting and of course there is still competition with in here and there but for the most part I find that women are really supportive of each other I also have been working with swarm City and the storm funds quite a bit I meant Joel from Joel Dietz from swarm and we talked about a bunch our projects and all the stuff happening and you express a lot of interest in supporting both blockchain art projects and women equality so I know swarm is now sitting around the survey to try to make sure that there are as many women as men users and their platform that’s really exciting and also so many surveys about how they want the tokens to be used and so on are hungry to include the community that’s what’s Tim Meadows all about right and that’s what these events are all about so I think I think we’re doing pretty good so far and I see how much more collaboration is going to is going to start happening you know just from from these telegram groups and how excited everybody is and and also how cool is that that we have telegram instead all our messages so that the government can hover information are private conversations it’s just it’s amazing we weave I feel sad about the fact that Facebook and all these social media platform orny or Cuban connection you know I honestly have so many thoughts where I say I don’t care if Facebook knows all my information or if they own all my media I just want to be able to share photos of my friends in Argentina and this is the easiest form so how sad is it that we were okay with all of our privacy and information being exploited and people making money off of us just because we’re so starved for human connection so I’m really excited to be able to do the same things we’ve been doing and use the good parts of Technology like social media in a way that it also filled up our pockets and our Spirits you know that is music to my ears thank you so much I’m so glad that I I mean I just just the fact that your video came up right after cryptos news and we’re in this moment have his conversation this is all such beautiful music to my ears and yeah it’s been I mean in my field in the world of Tantra sacred sexuality sexual healing in just the I think the most important thing in my studies in my experience for healing a planet and really saving the Earth is really being instrumental and being conducive to two women Sisterhood and a healthy positive empowering way and actually creating more financial Independence so that women as mothers can have more freedom and power and actual means to make more independent decisions with their bodies with their with their you know how they how much even breastfeeding I mean the most people don’t know that it’s pretty much understood that about 5 years is a typical pre-industrial young length of time to be breastfeeding infants on demand and imagine the kind of infrastructure changes that have to happen for that to be possible in the modern world but if anything’s going to make it happen it’s going to be the fruit of the work that people like you were doing and that’s as you know might just sort of Public Service Announcement about you know a sort of futuristic crypto feminism you know that I said that I want to contribute to I want to see happen is this more and more working together and in collaboration So yeah thank you for helping with that and Centric energy and learning some teachings of something that it’s pretty recent to me maybe two years and there’s so much to learn and I found so much healing and in all of these intersections of psychedelics meditation 10 trick work and crypto and it’s it’s so bizarre and no way to talk about technology and evolution and money in the same line that we talked about psychedelics and in self-healing love and all of this to no life force of energy but it is all the same thing it’s it’s just growing us a more compassionate and accepting loving human race you know that’s what it’s all about and at the same time that I’m really excited about all of these blockchain as a vehicle for 4 change I am really concerned about Wi-Fi and radiation and you know of course all of these a chemtrail crazy stuff that we put ourselves through so I’m putting out the intention into calling for more people to get involved in to figure it out other ways to connect the other internet in a way that it’s not so destructive for us and so there’s not some natural solutions and then there’s simple things we can do like turning off wi-fi at night when you go to sleep and self-education on this on this topic but I would love to hear more like I said Solutions and privacy are are something that we are now noticing that we need to work on more at the same time that we develop all these amazing systems right we need to wear we’re kind of like it’s floating and all this magical ways and now we need to start creating the containers that will keep us a lines into our missions as well yeah absolutely absolutely awesome well yeah I’m getting about 2 or if you’ll just totally mind blown and totally satiated by learning all this stuff all this great stuff that you’re doing do you feel free now to take some time to promote your efforts and talk about we have coming up in the future will people can be looking out for and and yeah we’ll we’ll call it a good introduction to hopefully we can also keep in touch on going up next and that is the exist festival.com that it’s a beautiful project where we are just connecting more and more people doing similar events and hoping that we can continue to collaborate so if anybody’s interested in anything that we’re doing please reach out there’s room for you to be fully creative in your own way and like I said it’s not about competition the abundance is there and in so many ways so that is South by Southwest Austin and then we have token Fest in San Francisco I will be there as well and then we have an art party in the bay somewhere so all this information will be on social media that is at my new brakes on Twitter or breaks on Instagram and I wanted to mention. So I most recently connected with gel polish and he’s doing art for addicts and he has a lot of projects going on in that world so I’m really excited to get more involved in healing the process of healing ourselves through ART and handling addiction because I believe technology is also an addiction right so being able to create those containers again and also few initiatives for the cleaning up the oceans and ocean token and just so many good projects coming up so anyway that I can that I can help or help you connect with those who will get you to where you want to be the green miners we clean energy any of that please reach out to me I would love to help out cool thank you again so much now Newburgh city has been such a pleasure and yet again thank you for just allowing me to be impulsive and send a message out to you and get you on the show and to know also that your ear integrating some the tantric wisdom in and works into your life it’s so exciting and I agree this is all just one big Kundalini blockchain Bliss Bellini black seamless hashtag that will be in touch in the future and thank you again so much sounds good thank you so much have a beautiful night. Trent repent. Calm and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition assassini and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple after bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email said I turned your punk. Com Thomas gay