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Futurizing the Public Policy of Sex Work with Devika the Techy Tantrika TPP183

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In this episode I’m joined again by dear friend and tantric comrade Devika the Techy Tantrika for a discussion about the future of public policy for sex workers, sex educators, sex technologists, and more. We explore our mutual fascination for the study of how sexuality is regulated by policy makers who seem to have decreasing interest in consulting with the populations their laws affect the most. An emergent property of our convo is the fleshing out of a sort of verbal white paper outlining the problems we’re facing in the sex industry and the innovative solutions that are rapidly evolving in the sex tech space.

Check out our first episode for more info on her personal backstory:

https://tantrapunk.com/open-source-intimacy-with-devika-the-techy-tantrika-tpp131/

About Devika:

Devika J. Singh/The Techy Tantrika is a Tantric Sex and Self-Relationship Coach as well as a Performess. Her diverse creative endeavours as well as her views on holistic sex, intimacy, self-relationship and self-care have culminated into the one-on-one online coaching practice she has today. Devika’s unique take on traditional and Neo-Tantric practices along with her continuous dedication to providing commentary on tech trends that affect the way we date and intimately connect shine through in her YouTube video series where she provides Tantric sex and dating advice to her audience.

You can find Devika’s YouTube sex+dating advice video series at youtube.com/thetechytantrika

Follow her Instagram at:
http://www.instagram.com/thetechytantrika

You can also find out more about her coaching practice and writing at devika-singh.com

Topics we discuss include:

  • the future of age verification regulation and innovations in blockchain tech
  • the hyper regulation of fosta/sesta
  • https://www.woodhullfoundation.org/
  • statistics of harm reduction in decriminalized sex industries
  • how criminalization of websites pushes sex workers back into the hands of pimps
  • the risks to sex workers increasing as regulations take away online reputation and client vetting systems
  • with more rights, sex workers can build more resilient safety nets
  • law enforcement is actually disempowered by fosta/sesta as they no longer have a places to gather evidence and conduct investigations
  • lessons from Nevada and Amsterdam sex work policy
  • December 17th International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers
  • Sex Workers Outreach Project USA
  • Sex Workers Outreach Project Los Angeles
  • Sex work as a layer in the “software stack” that is modern civilization
  • the need for tantra corporate retreats to better facilitate the intelligent flow of sexual energy for increase productivity and team building
  • sex workers do God’s work
  • involuntary celebates Vice article
  • how sex workers prevent violence by providing much needed sexual outlets for those who’s sexually needs are unmet in relationships
  • the value of polyamory community to open public discourse on alternative relationship models
  • the importance of consent and how healthy sex industries facilitate consent best practices
  • the agility of technology and the slow rate of change in government sectors
  • the need for tantra instructors to have the same protections and freedoms as spiritual and religious leaders
  • how those in the sex industry have to live double lives and hide their sexual identity to fit into mainstream society, maintain or apply for jobs, etc.
  • how current systems are outdated and barbaric
  • how open-source and peer-to-peer technologies are creating new dimensions of freedom and empowerment
  • the libertarian sentiment: “stater’s gonna state”
  • Caligula’s regulation and taxation of brothels in ancient Rome
  • the potential for technology to prevent insurrectionary street battles with police such as in the origins of the gay rights movement and the Stonewall Riots
  • the need for tech savy sexuality educators, service providers and policy makers in the Nevada blockchain city
  • crypto billionaries building crypto social infrastructure in Puetro Rico
  • the Silicon Valley of Crypto in Zug, Switzerland
  • Joe Lubin’s sex positive attitude towards Ameen Soliemani and SpankChain
  • the sexual economics of the wild west and the evolution of brothels
  • how sex workers have generated the revenue for municipal projects, public works, and civil services in gold rush town
  • the progressive sex work policies in Australia
  • the tragic irony of how sexual health has evolved, and public policy around sex work has devolved
  • advocating for natural birth control methods beyond the rhythm method
  • revitalizing ancient sexual health wisdom and practices
  • how sex workers are better qualified to teach sex ed and safer sex
  • the history of witch trials and burning
  • the demonization of midwives for empowering women to have sexual and reproductive sovereignty
  • the often unexamined and unacknowledged negative side effects of birth control pills
  • ancient yogini cults of India and the rebellion of tantric witches in India
  • how marginalized women such as widows, prostitutes, and those who’ve escaped abusive relationships are a force to be reckoned with when they organize and band together
  • differences between neo-tantra and classical tantra
  • how 2019 will be the year of the sex witch
  • yoni steam baths with Steamy Chick
  • how midwives often become referees in hospital birthing situations where mother’s are mistreated and misinformed
  • the power of women in crypto and blockchain
  • the women of crypto track at the crypto invest summit
  • the southern california blockchain community and Blockchain Beach meet up
  • financial feminism in the crypto space
  • the hypocrisy of law maker sex buyers who legislate against sex workers
  • reverse doxing
  • the Ashley Madison hack
  • the notion that high profile clients should give back to support the decriminalization, unionization, health benefits, and other rights and amenities for sex workers
  • the notion of the techno shaman and their roles and responsibilities in protecting and defending the global cyber village
  • if good people don’t master tech, only the bad people will
  • future visions for goddess temples where sex is earned through meaningful local service to the women and the health of their families and their full life cycles
  • the political economy of making love not war and how throughout history love has been suppressed to create less attached soldiers
  • the under-representation of women in tech and computer science
  • the depressing statistics on venture funding and C-level employment for females
  • how a world with more balanced access to funding and corporate authority is as yet unimaginable, but we anticipate it to be much healthier, more beautiful, safe, and equitable, most importantly for sex workers and the sex trade

 

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin welcome to Tantra Punk podcast episode number 184 I’m being joined by Alejandra Aguilar and she is the health educator an HIV counselor at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center and we sort of met at a recent sex workers Outreach project event on December 17th which was the international day to end violence against sex workers and there was a beautiful creative artistic kind of community building event that was held there and that was the first time I had visited the East last night Women’s Center and I was very thrilled to know that that the place exists and of the great work they’re doing there and Alejandra was hosting the event through the space and has some really powerful and moving things to say about the work that she does in support of women’s health in and sexuality health and education and so I was very moved and thought I’d reach out and see if she like to tell us a bit more about her personal background and about what the great works that are offered at the center there so I’ll a hundred thank you so much for joining me looking forward to hearing more about your story thank you thank you Ben and thank you for inviting me to be part of this podcast so as you mention my name is HIV counselor at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center and yeah I recalled that for a little over 42 years and one of the things that we always want to let people know is that this is a place where women silence is hurt for the community has their silence and so we decided to open up our space so that sex workers and their allies and come in and and have a safe place to meet and so I have been working in the field of HIV for in reproductive health for a little over 14 years and you know when I arrive to this country when I was 8 years old and one of the reasons why I’m very passionate about advocating for Women Health is because specially for the health and well-being and the needs of let me know is because many times Latinas specially Latinos who are aware of the services that might be out there to support them and so one of my one of my reasons for being an ally in in the the support of sex workers is to be able to avoid the needs of women especially one of the things that I did was I was a child care provider even though I was a child myself I used to babysit that the children of many sex workers women who were immigrants who worked up at sex workers and so I got to see a lot of the needs that a lot of the new show of the women and definitely a lot of them are children and so you know as I was getting older I decided to to look into this route of being of service to to the community by advocating for the needs of your penis growing up I got to see how special immigrant women for sexual abuse that shows fault interpersonal violence and definitely sexual explotation and when I started working at the East Los Angeles Women’s Center I thought this is perfect I get to work for an organization that is aligned with my beliefs and here I am 14 years into providing Services Organization advocating for the woman’s name well that is so powerful and thank you so much for sharing that and specially about your personal background ATS really moving to me I know that there that there is a lot of really strong feminist history and in feminist movement history around women sexual health and and support services and also and sort of sort of vaguely aware of different tensions that there have been within the feminist movement around 7 is sewer or not as supportive of sex workers or of women who were involved in the adult industry and some some who maybe are more supportive some curious if you have had to navigate any of those those politics within the women within the women’s movement about the sort of taboo subjective of the sex industry not necessarily you know I am very fortunate to be in this organization I’m very fortunate to have a strong network of providers that believe in advocating for everyone and when we say everyone it means every single person regardless of what they’re definitely here at the women’s center we do not see people for what they do we see them for who they are and so when we see when we see you know a sex worker we see them for who they are first and foremost a human being have to keep for them or what you would like and definitely no I haven’t encountered any of that it does not mean that it’s not the doesn’t accept them pretty sure there’s so many people that have encounter with you but I myself have not I’m really glad to hear that because I got that Vibe definitely that there was no judgment and no no sort of distance or or or judgment you about about that because it is so it is so much a part of life and people want to ignore it or people want to just hiding from it but it’s it’s a real serious issues I appreciate it very much that that you hold that space and and I want to thank you for doing that so if you could help us understand a bit about what the the most vital needs are of those those women who are doing work in the sex industry what are some of the things that people should know about as far as what they face on a daily basis and even ways that that people who are maybe just wanting to support them where are they they want to be allies how they can also be supportive but would definitely I cannot speak for everyone but I can’t I am able to speak for those who I have been fortunate and humble enough to provide services doing these are the Immigrant Latinos who work in the bars on the country has most of the time you asked about their needs what their needs are definitely there’s a lot of me to to provide them with resources resources and when I say resources what kinds of resources and support that they need to let them know about the right and to let them know that if they have been abused molested in any way that there is are places that can help them if they need just a space where they can just feel safe that there’s such a space about what we hope to who provides many of the women that we service the well-being overall well-being we are always concerned about their health their physical health or emotional health because we know that it can take a toll on their health specially those who work at night all we know that is if it can be difficult for them to to take care of that their help because the majority of them are also mothers and because they are mothers you know many times Latinas put the needs of their own meat how can I say it they put their needs before the needs of anyone else and they last one but they’re nice and so I want to advocate for them we also want to let them know that they have rights we hope to educate them about the right within the women that we service some of them are hiv-positive and so will support them we support them by providing resources for their help for them so that they can receive the services well thank you very much again for doing that work in something that I that I have been made very much aware of by my association with women who who would be considered those very strong feminist critique of the patriarchal economic structures and just the way capitalism works and how how this Empire is really built on on its own built on the backs of immigrant labor and and and from what you’re saying it’s also built on the bodies of the sex workers who who serve a lot of different types of male laborers and I’m wondering what if you care to share from your personal perspective what are some observations are inside sore or strong feelings you may have around what the what the role of men who may be there maybe they are sex buyers or maybe they are temps or maybe they are you know what and then you can any level of that economy do you ever have the opportunity to to Enlighten them or two to help them become more active in doing the support work for the for the women or what what is your feeling about the men who are just kind of you don’t hear a lot about the John’s or the Pimp C male a male and get you component we are thinking by myself a big advocate for making change in our communities mobilizing one of the one of the things that I do is when I am able to speak to groups of men and provide them with information writing with resources to do is to let them would like for them specially if they are consumers of the services of the women who are sex workers Michael is for them not to think of the women as object to know that there’s a story behind them that there that these women might have gone through many struggles am I making sense yes this is amazing I love to hear it to hear more about it cuz I feel like it’s so lacking it’s so lacking in that people actually try to educate them and whether it’s about using condoms or or being just mine. I’m being respectful this is Range Community and to use their voice to Advocate from them as well to use whatever privilege they have as meant to protect them to advocate for them that’s definitely one one of our pools and one of the things that we hope to accomplish is for for men to go beyond those gender roles that they are putting the moment they are born we want them to understand that they can break out of that box I agree with you yes wow so if that that thank you so much for sharing those insights that they’re really really touches my my heart and soul because I feel like I’m as myself as a sex worker myself I’ve been mistreated and abused and certainly I would have loved for the very wealthy the wealth of the wealthier of my clients to to be giving back and supporting nonprofit organizations that actually create a better life and more resources 400 why wouldn’t you why wouldn’t you give back to to like a trade Association it was helping you have a good experience in helping you get your needs met so hopefully yeah I’m excited to hear about what you’re doing over the other people will do that kind of Outreach as well so if we could talk a bit about the I feel like it’s it would be important to give some context for people listening to this what what the scope of sexual assault really looks like from your perspective you’re really seeing and I again am I feel very honored to speak with you knowing that you’re you’ve chosen to be putting yourself in a position to have so much exposure and really be very empathetic and very compassionate towards people who are in times of Crisis and some of the the most extreme trauma and current crisis so you could help to sensitize the listeners of this podcast to do some what it what is sort of typical cycle is when you have someone to say come in for services who is in trauma or crisis and in kind of what whatever is appropriate you know for you to share but that I think would be good for us to understand that means we started in 1976 and actually disorganization begin you know it was first bilingual confidential 24 hour 7 days a week crisis hotline to be able to service and provide support to survivors of sexual assault what we do is we have a hotline and call if they have just been assaulted molested or phrase taking cold even if it happened many years ago in another country we provide supporting the support looks something like this we we do Hospital accompany me to go to the hospital to provide support to the Survivor of rape and we’re able to see people all ages for survivors from a baby to someone well over the age of 90 we see that again we see them for who they are we see them as human beings Survivor and we are basically there to support them we allow them to have a safe safe space to come in and speak support when and if they’re ready mix someone is ready and they would like to come in and receive support we can provide them with counseling therapy and again we never tell them what to do we are there in their healing journey in the journey to heal I said we’re walking hand-in-hand with them so where’s that the healing path and soul Moana singing about in 2016 I remember in 2016 we provided services to over 10,000 women and children on the hotline movie about 2,200 called so we’re pretty busy if ever since that Open Door hotline has never closed and twice a year would provide training for people to become sexual assault advocate so that they can help survivors they can do hospital but also so that they get the keys for the needs of survivors important so after all of this exposure that you and your colleagues and peers with organization in and near the community of people that you’re connected with her your allies in Von forcement in the justice system and that the hospital system and the the sword I guess there’s also the social services and Family Services sectors of thumb of the county and in local local governments I’m curious if you could talk about some of the powder and some of the insides whatever you’ve been able to kind of a phone some conclusions you may have arrived at just about to the patterns of abuse and where you feel like the most effective interventions can occur on the preventative side of this issue how to do there’s definitely a lot to do but we definitely one of our one of them nothing’s that needs to happen to be able to to end sexual assault and domestic violence definitely HIV we need to end violence against women and homophobia swell we definitely know that if we end violence against women we end homophobia we are very well and then into the HIV epidemic we are definitely going to see Alright by very much agree with that and tell me what comes to mind from me for my personal experience in for my studies and I love to hear what you had what you would have to stay from your perspective Which is far more I would say far from a highly developed than mine because of the position that you that you’ve taken up and and I would say with what are your thoughts on the you mentioned machismo that’s something that I’m interested to hear more about what what that where that comes from and what you would how you would advise people to deconstruct that that sort of some aspect of violence in and then also alcohol and Andrew role that you feel that plays or substance abuse and how that feeds into the violence well it’s definitely a collaborative effort of everyone social service providers to law enforcement to every single every single person has a responsibility to an hour in one of the things we have are you aware of basically the women from targeted community wengage and Outreach and education and what they do is they increase awareness of sexual assault and resources and domestic violence victims and their families but they also bring awareness and so one of the things that that we have here in our organization in mind you all women that can be women that are actively working a sex workers women for HIV positive Housewives just about anyone and they go through this training where they learn about their culture how their cultural experiences shape their identity with a lot of focus on the Latino cultures and Value Inn in the experiences that they might have had growing up and still one of the things that we encourage them don’t is to look at what what are the values of culture that contribute in a positive way to to have better communities to to make them feel safe right it in to make a change in the world and to keep those we encourage them to look at the one that can be toxic that can be done that perpetuate and we encourage them to to look at both and decide which ones they want to keep which ones they want to transmit to other generation so we start with that beautiful well thank you for doing that as well in I’m curious if we could go to the next question which is the just to the prevalence of alcohol and domestic violence I think is pretty well well known that a lot of sexual assault and violence happened in in circumstances that are sort of fueled by drunkenness and I’m curious if you have thoughts on to substance abuse and alcoholism and how that how that affects the work that you do and the the the women that you support but we do know that it art again you know what we need people were there as we don’t we do not follow up a model of trauma-informed that means we are not going to shame people if they have issues with substance abuse know we can help them try to get to the root of why they’re they’re using or why they’re drinking rice I can tell you definitely my perspective from what I saw growing now I can tell you that issues with alcoholism are very prevalent with the with the women who work in the bar and the emptiness sex workers because that is part of their work in order to make a living they have to drink with the client and so many women that start working in the barn and the emptiness when they start working in the bar on the time peanut they have never you know in their life they have never had a drink but once they start working out of their job it’s how they make that living and some many of them develop alcoholism that’s one of the things that I saw and so you know if you if you asked to do it that many have a history of abuse or trauma that it don’t even know that they have this history of abuser, they don’t even know what to name those feeling you know very bad idea that depression you have a very difficult situation for for the person you know when one of these again that I hate that I was able to see I was able to see because of the lack of support and empowerment and resources available to this woman I saw in a bunch of this day I still seen any of them Works who no longer work in the calendar because there was no support there was no one to assist them teach them how to how to make a budget how to save the money or even how to invest some of them and not only that but a lot of them ended up with issues of alcohol yeah I hear you and that actually comes at least to my next question really which is about what you see as some of the the positive outcomes and the I would say to be clear I don’t believe that it’s wrong to be a sex worker ever see for myself I die in the part of the six work industry so there are some people would say well you just need to go to church and you need to quit the lifestyle and and and you need to leave it all behind you which I’m not I’m not here to say is this is right or wrong but but I will I will say that I’m very interested in what what 6 I think about the concept of a success story or someone who has overcome substance abuse or alcoholism in if they choose to remain active in the sex industry but I from a healthier place or if they choose to move beyond that I’m curious what you what are some of the pathways that you have facilitated or witnessed of of women who have become really empowered either is former sex workers or or or sort of sex workers in recovery what are some of the success stories that you would say that you’ve been a part of each other’s privacy and confidentiality if I can tell you that there’s this particular woman who is what after she became involved and after she was able to gather with other women saw other women like herself all about the right person for most of the human bean learn that there is nothing to be ashamed of learn to speak remind learn to Advocate Parker cell I was able to see an amazing transformation this is a person who now is able to speak up for herself this is someone who is able to negotiate pay for sex which I think it’s amazing to see this is someone who if she feels that someone is making her feel ashamed because of what she does she’s able to speak up she doesn’t know her head as she used to be for not just that but her priority priority priority herself above anything else in that include making better decisions when it comes to drinking that our decisions for her mean eating what you drink tea not not drinking as much as she used to before that you will forget to take her medication doesn’t make sense that is In N safety she she has been able to say she now has a savings account which is tremendous you know because now she’s planning or for the years I had to fight absolutely well I’ll take you out to other women beautiful well that’s that’s very good to hear and thank you again for doing that and just maybe a couple few more questions one will be going back to the the other half of the equation which is the the male role in and all of this into client role so I sounds like you’re yeah you have a lot of experience working with women who were in that that culture of the bar and cantina world and so like you said that there will be drinking is just part of the job and I’m curious if you if you could reach into the heart and soul of the the male clients and understand where they’re coming from and if they would maybe intergenerational trauma or or personal issues that they may be dealing with in and if we were to make if we were to all be working together to create more empowered and more conscious and then we’re healthy men and male clients and then maybe they would maybe this sounds ridiculous I guess but but I would love to see a world where where sex work is is legal and where people clients and and and service providers could meet up at a healthy juice bar or something or like a farmers market or something you know where it’s it’s not always in the context of of alcohol and that kind of sort of sector and so I’m just curious if when you think about this and when you work in this in this world if you do you have any advice for four men who are just maybe this sort of their kind of being set up or something I don’t know why I don’t know what you how you feel about just the whole the nature of that in of that that world of the the bar scene in the all that wouldn’t be able to provide education you know when I go out and we have those messages that week we share with with menopause sensitive to have healthy relationships with all the people in their life okay and do would you say while we’re on the topic of the Mennonite and I appreciate it and it sounds like what needs to happen is that more more men need to step up and organize and do Outreach it’s you already sounds like you’re already very your hands are full working with women and it sounds like that would be good for more men to anybody listening who has that the resources or the means to to do more Outreach Two Men and hopefully that will that will happen and I would say I just want another question just while we’re on the topic is if you if you feel like there is do you feel like a lot of the men who are of War buying the sexual services at women are they are they not really functional in their in their their own marriages that are on family life and are they I guess I don’t know like I said the other is there anything you can say about about the profile or the sort of in the attitude or the State of Mind of the mail client server or are they just a lot of single man to hoodoo don’t have a wife and that therefore they had they feel like they have to get through the day but with a beer you know with getting some drinks and inviting some sex and again there is so much so much change that needs to happen in one of them against the things that I be all that needs to happen from what I saw you know growing up in a very traditional community at 8 I was born in Mexico and I grew up in the town I was very religious it was okay for men to go to a bar in to go to La Cantina to look to spend some time with women right because many of them felt have to ask for certain things from their wives or their girlfriends was disrespectful and so they grew up thinking that the women that worked in the bar in the Campina where it was okay to have certain things of them right certain sexual things or even just to drink with them right again that idea that the women that worked in the casino or less than the women that are at home but that should not be the case that we can community that there’s this idea that yeah I’m going to go to the bar I’m going to go to the one with her right or she will be willing to deliver for a Spur to do and I cannot ask my wife to do that because she’s a good wife or she’s a good woman or she’s going to get offended if I ask her to do certain things when it might be very well that her wife at home or at home is wishing he will do those things with her because of how she grew up in this box that she was playing through gender role that don’t ask for something sexual well your violence violence that that if you are a good wife you would not dare ask for any of that and so that’s one of the things that I’m very passionate about teaching women again we let you know when it’s okay to to look for pleasure it’s okay to have conversations with your partner about certain things it’s okay to explore as long as you are both okay in the end it’s okay to look for a relationship with someone who is not going to feel threatened if you ask for certain things for your own pleasure well that is really powerful and I appreciate you saying that that really means a lot that really helps me understand a lot better and I hope I hope we can move towards that and and I appreciate the work you’re doing to create that space to explore and understand and and change the is paradigm so you’re so another question I have for you which is kind of this kind of extraordinary but I like to I like to do you know what some people call a thought experiment where you just think about what obviously you have you have some budgetary constraints and you have people power constraints but if you and your team or your colleagues the people you work within your organization if you somehow we’re blessed with the resources and the even just to say you won the lottery or something absurd like that but it was just say you had you had really almost Limitless potential or and Empower even politically to say okay this is all of this is all of the wisdom that we have and these are the proposals that we have and and if you just had what what you need to talk about investment and whatnot so if there was a if there was a venture capital firm that says we really think what you’re doing is important and we feel like that there is a benefit to society to have you you all have more resources and really if you if you had almost Limitless budget what are some of the things that you would do to to accelerate and grow and expand you know your services in certainly how I mean I would love to see since having been to the place you know your location I would love to see myself I would love to see you have more more acreage you no more land and something like the weirdest El Centro Farm was there some place where you can have Community Gardens in actual herbal Gardens in and healing natural areas and places for meeting that we’re outside and there were also safe and also had security so that’s just kind of what comes to my mind but I’m curious what you would do or what you would sort of dream up if you had almost no limits to what you can imagine wow there’s so much that we will definitely do love I can tell you that with a bigger budget we will definitely be able to since we will not have waiting list for four clients to to enrolled into into a program but definitely one thing will be to to increase to provide more support for the women that are hiv-positive because of budget I’m talking about financial support very limited women are always left behind and yet they’re the ones that love to see more help women’s health programs that are more sex-positive that are inclusive of sexual trauma Empower women to advocate for their sexual health definitely expand more men’s healing talking circles where they can wear the men pink and strengthen the relationship that we would love to see that but definitely if there was no monetary restrictions more more a healing circles or for women where they can talk about their health advocate for the health including their sexual health awesome thank you so much for sharing and I’m hoping that all of your dreams will come true you’re suddenly during such important and if I don’t work in the community and so yeah I wish you absolutely the best moving forward and hopefully yeah we’ll see each other again and then more more collaboration will happen that will be mutually supportive within our communities do you have any closing words you’d like to share and then also do you want to share the website URLs and any other links or any other ways to connect that would be great bilingual 24-hour hotline anyone can reach this hotline 24/7 the number is 800 5856 231 once again is 800-585-6231 and our website is www.ladwp.com org once again is so absolutely yes sir I appreciate it’s been an honor and do you have any last closing words you like to say is just a call to action or or things that you feel like if if people knew in NC could hear this voice than they would they would they would want to step up and and I guess it was before we say that you are a 501 c 3 charitable non-profit so donations are tax-deductible am I correct that we are especially in need of support because we have the only shelter in the mission where people can can go if they have just been sexually assaulted or if they have just landed on the hospital and they’re afraid to go back home or back to where the perpetrator or abuser is and we definitely need a lot of support for that our women’s HIV program a lot of sports comidas up with some sort of supporting in the dollar if you can share our website with others or even our Facebook page elawc please go ahead and do so we will be very grateful thank you so much Alejandro I think that was a really good introduction to all of the the work you’re doing and I hope that’s a lots of good things come from this and hopefully we will have meet again and and maybe we can follow up again and have you back on sometime in the future talk about some new developments and hopefully there’s there will be a lot more a lot more great things happening in the future so thank you again for your time and we’ll be in touch okay bye bye thank you for listening to the touch of Honey Pot www.entrepreneur.com can cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temple in every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com Damas de

The Future of Crypto-Economics in the Adult Industry with Ameen Soleimani TPP171

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Ameen Soleimani Pic

In this episode episode I’m joined by one of my most favorite innovators in the crypto space, Ameen Soleimani of SpankChain. This Ethereum powered adult entertainment platform is helping to provide a more safe and secure environment for producers and consumers of adult content to build online community and transact value using state of the art technology. Much of the discrimination suffered by those involved in the adult industry will be relieved as this platform grows and begins to retrofit if not replace the legacy payment and content delivery rails.

(Please note, this episode was recorded several weeks before it’s release so some of the future updates that are discussed are now current).

We discuss:

  • Ameen’s background in crypto
  • His time working at Consensys
  • How Consensys is a radical experiment in decentralized organizational management
  • How he transitioned into this own projects
  • The origin story of SpankChain
  • His vision to create an on-demand micropayment enabled educational video platform
  • Revelations he’s had about the adult industry use case of crypto
  • His philosophies on a more liberated future for human sexuality
  • The SpankChain roadmap
  • How the Spank and Booty tokens will work to provide a stable token economy with incentives within and beyond the SpankChain platform ecosystem
  • How this unique technology will integrate with and provide services to other adult sites and platforms, resulting in more crypto adoption within the existing industry
  • How SpankChain has been received by the orthodox Ethereum development community
  • and much more!

Please visit SpankChain here:
https://spankchain.com/

Follow Ameen at:
https://twitter.com/ameensol

About Ameen:
Ameen is a decentralization lazer gun and likes to wield the blockchain like a weapon to destroy the legacy trusted institutions. Throughout his crypto career Ameen has played a role in over $30M+ in token sales – including the fastest ICO in history. In his free time, he likes playing Super Smash Brothers (64), Settlers of Catan, and PUBG.

AI Generated Transcription:
(Want to help with corrections? Please contact me to learn about rewards for your efforts!)

Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved’s welcome to Township on podcast episode number 171 I am super delighted for this episode because I have is a guest I mean saw the money and he’s going to tell us all about the spankchain it’s not just webcamming it’s also it’s going to be and it said developing multiple solutions to be an opportunity to replace a lot of the payment rails and content delivery rails of the adult entertainment industry which is a hundred billion dollar a year industry and it’s filled with choke points and discrimination and all kinds of other nasties that were connect solver and it really live out satoshi’s Vision in a lot of interesting ways so with that said we got a bit of an outline to go through but just the start and ask you a meatloaf first thank you again for joining me and asked you to tell us really about your your personal life story or development how you got into Tech and everything before the devising spankchain yes so thanks for having me on your podcast excited to be here my let’s see if we can start about sort of like my entry into cryptocurrency which is a fun place to start which was in college of the first time I really heard of Bitcoin was when we were using it to buy drugs on mushrooms on the Silk Road College friends graduated college started learning software engineering worked on some Arbitrage bot Smith’s money off Arbitrage lost all my money. Cox I was also pretty fun and then really started in 2016 getting serious about ethereum smart contract development I joined consensus in the summer of 2016 while I was there I worked on pure energy project at the time it was called Coke TriCity but sort of event evolved into Grad Plus and then also did a lot of State channels research and then left on Chad chain handle and then left to start sanction awesome so there is a lot of good stuff in there that the delay person we can zoom into a bit to get a little more context I’m familiar cuz I listen to numerous episode podcast episodes interviews that you’ve done before and I’ll say that know my get my skin in the game full disclosure is said I’m a bag holder of spank and a proud bag holder that I’m also a spank live performer and so I am really a raving fan of this technology for a lot of reasons and so I’ve been following your work pretty pretty religiously and I will consider myself the the opposite of a troll it’s kind of like a benevolent roll if you will I’m trying not to be a CEO either but being a benevolent Troll and just kind of trying to bring love to to the project however our possible at through the stages of development and so I was really interested in that to interview you did with Arthur falls on the third web you got into some very interesting material and what I find fascinating in the crypto space that a lot of people seem to I don’t think he gets enough credit and zoom into it is just if you could explain to us what consensus is and how it represents our total radical paradigm shift in governance and in the hierarchy of more of a flattened hierarchy for corporate level a business development and technology and research and all that stuff that is if you could just give us a total download of What consensus is that would be fabulous fantastic yesu consensus is a venture Production Studio started by Joseph Lubin who is one of the original co-founders of ethereum news on the operation said she’s a technologist by training he was a former VP of engineering at Goldman Sachs C understand how all this money stuff works she was previously Robotics and stuff to you but consensus is is really different than any other company really like have ever encountered but a little work that so it is not really run through a top-down command-and-control structure like a traditional hierarchy it is it is a radical experiment trying to run a company in a very decentralized fashion the overarching goal of consensus is to further the mission of aetherium Joe described it and its Inception as you know a theorem is like launching an Xbox with no games so I can sense us needs to build games except in this case. Just games applications that range anywhere you know from Supply Chain management to energy to while some games like virtue poker to music for music licensing and Ferb saddlestring direct relationships with musicians and basically comes from this understanding that like the things that command and control structures are good at are making decisions quickly especially in with high amounts of uncertainty but the thing that a sort of decentralized company can accomplish where are the members are more or less free to pursue their goals so long as you know that they’re still accountable on and aligned with the interests of the company in pursuing mission of of furthering aetherium it ends up that consensus can establish relationships with people in all sorts of different Industries and work on projects that you know any other company that does not have the breadth of the types of projects that consensus works on and that that comes from the I love the freedom that you have within the organization to try new things and I thought that was really powerful of a decision to make early on and so far it seems to be working that’s this is growing a lot and you’re constantly hearing about all the all of the things that it’s doing its I remember so I was like the hundredth employee of aetherium and in the early days of aetherium it was challenging to stay on top of all of the aetherium project but quickly as consent to started growing and it is grown about 10 times as much now I think they’re almost had about a thousand people is its own challenge to just stay on top of the things that consensus-building awesome thank you for sharing that that background and I’ll say that when I I was listening to do I was just about to ring every podcast I could find in the space for the most part and I I Came Upon a state change I believe is what it was called was a series that Arthur Falls did too kind of profile a lot of the different consensus projects and I was just blown away I mean for all of the different Progressive movements that I’ve been in the streets protesting for this the solutions that are being created with this technology just are the answer to so many prayers of so many so many down-to-earth people’s movements for Liberation and empowerment I just I was so excited and also it just felt like this futuristic kind of Starfleet Star Trek kind of very techno-utopian but very practical organization and and I’m just like totally thrilled and impressed I’m curious if you could talk about how the the sort of Human Resources protocols work are you guys receiving or were you receiving or do they receive payment in crypto or do they have Smart contracts that are there actual descriptions of jobs and is there a sort of token economy within how the organization rates it’s it is decentralized in global so you’re going to get from me is going to be outdated by about a year and a couple months so I can I can only really talk to my experience while I was there when consensus was 102 about but yes so people had job descriptions you were more or less free to create your own title but you you couldn’t just do anything but you know if you could justify to the company that you know what you were the what you were working on was in the interest of a company then they would allow you to continue doing it and so there the company organization was heavily inspired by the Slick idea phallocracy and the valve employee handbook so valve is another company where you know it’s famous for having desks with wheels and so the idea behind valve is that without their ideas that like the best games come from people who really want to work on it together and are inspired to join forces and do so and so did you know there’s like you can go you to move your desk to wherever whatever cluster in a like-minded people and whatever game you think is interesting and you know that they’re there is evidence to point to this working pretty well because for a while he’ll steam was a project that was led by one person involved and everyone else at the company thought he was kind of crazy but because they are down the side of x duration they allowed this person to continue working and then eventually it built up steam no pun intended and started getting other people to move their desks next to their desk and start working together and so consensus is sort of inspired by that answer that the HR question yes we while I was there we were being paid in Bitcoin as independent contractors which was pretty cool and then as I was transitioning out of the company was transitioning towards a more corporate payment structure on payroll system is probably a bit of a early days Nostalgia Wild West and then just facing inevitable regulation and oversight from whatever forces they probably had to tighten up a little bit was that did that have anything to do with your decision except I like to get into next ocean and I’m just say that I was thrilled when when Joe Lubin at the consensus gathering this year cited spankchain and he see what he said you were brilliant technologist in that you spun off to do your own thing and I sort of had to take your dark fantasies into a into another realm and that was a very interesting and exciting to get to hear about so if you could tell us about hey if there was anything what was it like for you to transition in and Branch out and do your own thing that’s you know how to sort of High Council which was called the resource allocation committee the rack and I gave a rack presentation in April of 2017 pitching consensus on starting a San francisco-based well basically another consensus that I would run and that would focus on scalable using State channels as well as helping launch tokens because I thought that was going to be all the rage and so they said no and they denied my request for 2 million dollars in for $500,000 and something and I dunno said thank you very much and then realize that you know I’m it’s it’s it’s it’s really hard to like justify or maybe like you know I think I’m capable of something but like when you go to somebody and you ask for 2 million dollars and they asked to see proof it’s hard to just like you know like explain to somebody why they should give you the money in advance of having seen a demonstration of ability that matches the ask and so you know I realize that it was going to be a little too hard to convince rack and also that the thing that I thought was the most compelling opportunity was spankchain and it was sort of outside of the realm of acceptable consensus project especially when consensus is working on it with like Sheiks and by who may not be as friendly to this type of thing so you know that that’s the point where I I said the you know I think I’m going to leave and start my own thing and you know I have pretty good relationships with everybody still at consensus and I was sad to leave and people are sad to see me go but at the same time I’m still sort of like an extended family like everybody at consensus they’re all they all recognize that sanction is still working for further the goals and in the mission of aetherium and so we all get along and it’s an honor when Joe recognizes our work on stage and I know that you know my team is really excited about getting that kind of recognition and validation because for a while stationed existed in the sort of taboo nobody knew what the thing that there’s a lot of people who were waiting to hear what other people thought in order to come around to having an opinion about it and now that is sort of flipped and people are starting to recognize that you know we’re doing really work in the technology and we’re also bringing a new community into crypto that like we’re specifically it makes sense and for this community in it and it actually benefits them in and helps helps their lives abscess absofuckinglutly and I’m excited we’re going to get into that the juicy aspects of this very soon little bit more on the 3rd of backstory and thank you for sharing that is well I was trying to explain it to some friends recently and I said specifically about you and the fact that you have this resume CV piece of coming from consensus and you know I made the analogy in like if you’re going to hire a bodyguard do you want somebody who used to work for the special forces or do you want the that the guy at the local bar the bouncer at the hookah bar you know and I said that is a hat tip and about down to you and the work you’ve done there and certainly for me and made it easy I need an easy decision to to Nowhere to Nowhere where to put some skin in the game knowing that you had that experience and that level and I’ve just you I respect the way that you transition and the and the mission that you have and I would really love to get into a bit what was the actual can you remember where you were and what you were doing the moment that you hadn’t you you had the aha moment to be a real first-mover in crypto for adult when what was that moment if you can if you can remember that maybe when the idea came to you and then when the name came to you give us the real deep the real deep juice there you got shirts so the so the first time I remember the first time somebody told me I should do this and it was a keel Fernandez who worked on safe Market at consensus and it was before I even join trying to get a job at consensus consensus 2016 hackathon met and so This Is Us 26 event put on by Queen. Video streaming real-time payment platform I know that might sound familiar but for Education Institute has any idea was like you notes raising your hand for the internet you get stock you need somebody to help you you know Google isn’t serving you but you need and you just need a human and so I need a design the system and I thought it’d be really cool because you could solve the micropayments problem allowing people to pay as you go intuitive decentralised way so that anybody could build you as an applications on top and I thought that was really powerful and I tried to convince people to work on it at the just wanted to because nobody really cares about education and that was sad so I worked on it by myself then afterwards after the conference I was at the bar census like the company meet up and that’s what you should do you should do this for cam models know I don’t know that seems like maybe 30 or something like that was the mindset that I had at the time and I had my lecture vision for herb for education but it’s sort of it it started to grow on me a couple people that I was talking to you about you know the payment channels Knology started mentioning that you know it could be a good use case in terms of the came out and started to think about it more and it wasn’t until I was back home visiting one of my friends fathers are just passed away and so a bunch of us were sitting together and we were talking about this and started to really you know get serious about you know what was asking the question of like where is this actually going to happen first into into Parts like where is the payment Channel technology going to find its home first and second one was like where is blockchain consumer adoption going to happen first like who who are the people that I actually need this and that’s when you know the answer a question like that and you can’t limit yourself to the things that you might want to hear or the things that you’re biased already towards hearing and see you want to make sure that you’re open to what the answer is and in all honesty and it was you no adult and is definitely the industry in we’re going on a blunt ride with a bunch of my friends and started thinking about names and that’s that’s how spankchain emerges I should will die as soon as one of those the person Play It’s fiction and then it sort of snowballed from there and we came up with a bunch of other fun jokes and include them in the sort of founding story of spankchain you know gave birth to the sphincter she knocked the booty meme and so forth once once the projects you know that the first thing I was thinking was like okay we have payment channel is we have campsite how do we combine the two but once I started doing a lot more research into the adult industry I started realizing like how much bigger the problem actually is it wasn’t just that like you know this is where it would don’t tries everything and then you have that sort self-fulfilling prophecy of you know this relationship ends the banks and financial institutions and so you you have as we’ve outlined in their paper and and talks about shutting down the performers in 2014 and businesses Visa Mastercard refusing to process transactions for adult performers in business has a lot of pot I’m sticking them off you know your your Facebook’s your Instagrams and so it became obvious that like decentralization actually matters here and thatford all performers in businesses the thing like if the room is actually the killer app because it gives them a place to securely store and transact without fear of having their funds seized or Frozen like PayPal froze a performer that we are in contact with her account with $70,000 inside last Christmas that we were able to help her and get it out and about two months since I had friends with PayPal and I was able to touch the right people but that doesn’t always happen and in the cases were doesn’t like the funds are frozen for 6 months without any sort of repercussions nor any ability for the performer to do anything about it and so like for us you know an inn for the washing community in general we just have to be like not complete douchebags and it’s already a much better service and so and it’s not even that like we have the option of being douchebags because like if your money’s on ethereum there’s literally nothing anyone can do to take it from you and so I think that that is super compelling in this space beyond just you know the payment channels in the cams and that’s what the focus of sanction is its to build the infrastructure to be able to accelerate the adoption of the core I3 and Technology by this community so that we can create a parallel Financial system that allows them to have stopped over their money thing that just came to my mind now is it thinking about the way you just described that that douche proofing of the ethereum blockchain and I really understand that myself and appreciate that as the sex worker adult performer been to various scenarios in the industry that are very compromising and unsavory and certainly a lot of price gouging and manipulation and exploitation so you know this was all music to my ears hearing about how you were structuring this and just made me think right now that it’s it’s like in a more enlightened world where the labor that’s provided and offered by Artisan sex workers who many of which have training as sort of healers as well energetic healers and counselors and some other thing you know I was mentioned in your podcast other Falls is about how it’s a form of therapy and it’s so beautiful to see what happens in a community of really liberated folks online who can just open up and really crowdsource mental health and Sexual Health that it’s a beautiful thing and I just feel like it’s a division that came out the way we think about how public resource is like a beach but you might have to pay a token to use the bathroom at the beach or something so it’s like imagine instead of pimps and brothels and sleazy corrupt Hotel operations you had sex public sex facilities that were you know you had her access to a room but then you just you pay a v r us a very very small fee that is not it’s almost like a non-profit at that point it’s almost just like a as a service or used to be and not someone’s parasitic business model to be a pimp so you’re pretty much potentially eliminating a lot of the digital pimping that was Kenny Stiles way of centralized digital temps so I appreciate that it’s it it touches my heart and I’m already experiencing the abundance of it myself you know how my wallet it’s really am it’s a beautiful thing for me so yeah with that said I love to talk a bit about what a state channel is and if you can correct me with my understanding but it seems like sort of a way to do on aetherium what the Bitcoin lightning network is attempting to do where there’s sort of off chain balances that are being bounced around and then you really will be anchoring into the main public chain at a relative like a fraction of the number of transaction points or whatever you call it so that you’re not convincing the network in your not really held hostage by gas prices and stuff could you help us understand that a bit earlier also so I’m going to come back to the payment Channel stuff for peace but like one of the interesting ideas so this is working like I’m I’m a normie I haven’t been involved in this community for very long and in a lot of this is like a learning experience for me just wrapping my head around you know the Norms of these communities and it’s starting to make me think that there might be you know a parallel Revolution going on we’re on one hand like we have the cryptocurrency revolution where everyone gets a little woke and we come out and we’re like you know what this whole money thing it’s like whatever we say it is challenging the Serta fundamental assumptions that we’ve had growing up we say Okay money is issued by the government and that’s you know that’s it and if you pay taxes in the money in the government says it’s valuable and that’s why I’m seeing I’m not doing this but observing and starting to like what is it mean to be in a relationship like why is sex taboo like is you know what is the world look like if people treated sex or blow jobs or whatever like with the same sort of indifference as they do like a massage right what if you know we come back 10 years later and sex is just the you know what it’s like oh well do you know this reduces your stress reduces cortisol and prolongs your life isn’t that the case and it’s like that there’s a lot of hesitancy in resistance to this that’s that’s been brought in but a lot of that’s just because of some sort of like the traditional household of you note to parents with kids and nothing really changes on a year-to-year basis but every year that we have you know whether accelerating technology and growing information like that the next generation is going to learn way faster and from far more mistakes of the previous generations and it could be that we reach like radically new a clivia like I don’t think it’s that crazy if you know sex parties become like a normal thing that that people go to because it’s fun not just like one of those you have to be like a super courageous you know how it going type of person to go there it’s it it’s you know not seeing anything particularly weird that’s why I think the perfect textbook definition of is my one of my favorite new words it is this the word the swing eulerity have you heard that one before yassir facilitating at me all say that one of the most healing moments in all of my life was when I started to to be on the on the the Chaturbate platform and I started to really study at anthropological e and look in pure into all these different Windows into different countries and different cultures and languages and and it was just so abused for me to see all genders just really groups of friends just friends that would otherwise just be hanging out and playing video games but now they’re financially incentivized and and some would say there’s a creepiness factor to some of this but what I was witnessing was like wow if you just shut off the sound and put new start jotting down look how many how wide and how frequently smile Hazard on these people and their groups of friends hanging out playing with each other in ways that they may not have had the courage to explore but then you have people who are willing to give them tips and tokens to do it and then I’m seeing the most elaborate configurations that yoginis and country has the people who are my sort of calling so you know in the space of wanting to configure really elaborate architecture of group sexuality and social sexuality and and it’s happening in the most Unthinkable of places the most unlikely places in this in Venezuela and Columbia and Michael is Aldi’s little mini webcamming kind of Studios that are set up and he’s depressed economies where were the value of their money is just collapsing in crypto it which could be the end of this could be the future spankchain a big part of it is like the economies of friends of people they call them teams you know they like building teams and they’re figuring out ways to do all these things that would just blow your mind as far as how they’re covering each other’s erogenous tissues with with you know as many different miles in hands and genitals is required to create this mandala of pleasure and happiness and I just I just got it you know say that this is there so much more at stake here and the attitude you have towards sex positivity and just the ability to to Foster Liberation and inclusion this is so big and so I just want to just put that out there as it is a PSA and a real honoring to what you’re doing and say you know if you have any anything to rip off of that by all means and if not after that to Tiffany go go back into the state channels personally I’m an aspiring rationalists so I read a lot of Caskey less wrong stuff like that and you want to take the whole point is is to try and make sure that your calibrated with the external reality so that like the things you think are accurate a lot of the ways that humans tend to be wrong about things is that we’re trapped by our own the narratives that were comfortable with and our internal biases and so what are the Seas just like keeping an open mind right it’s like encountering a new group of people that do things differently and being like Oh that’s interesting not like oh that’s so strange and then in going from that to being like you know I wonder what my life would be like if I you know participated or like like why do I think this is strange right and asking yourself that question isn’t trying to actually reason about it from there and it’s been growing experience for me and you know I’m looking forward to to continue a beautiful part part of this is a cultural you no effort and where you know it’s not our fault in general were just trying to participate in the other part is in the same way that there’s like a technological movement we’re also trying to push that envelope and help out where we can and so when I join a consensus I was live the payment Channel expert there for a while and the big idea behind payment channels is that you are exactly right it’s like the lightning Network on it. And so the simplest analogy is it’s like a bar tab so everybody knows that on cryptocurrency the transactions are slow and expensive and the reason is because every transaction needs to be seen and validated by every single node in the network and what payment channels do is that they allow you to lock up some money in advance and then make payments off chain so like a bar tab where you go to the bar and you know you don’t pay for a drink every single time you like without your card and then go to the terminal and they swipe your card and give you their Seaside imagine if you did that every single drink it would be really annoyed so what you do instead is they just keep a tab maybe keep track of all the drinks you ordered and they take your card you can think of that as escrow and then afterwards you say you pay for all of it all at once and it’s the exact same thing with right now you load up money in your wallet and then you send you you load up your strength card which is our metaphor for the payment Channel and so once you’ve loaded up your stank card you said signed commitments the payment off chain and so it’s infinitely scalable because it’s the same as you know it just a normal HTTP internet message so like a you-know-what Facebook like would be except that it has a digital signature on it which means that the network and validate that it came from you and then you make these payment commitments and you know maybe after you spent like a bunch of money than you want to settle and then you would withdraw from The Sting card back to your wallet and that would be closing up your payment Channel and then you know the cardinality works really well because people understand how cars work you know all of the microtransactions into 2 into 2 actual introduction so one to open the channel and then next one when you want to close it that was beautiful yet I when I saw that I really it it’s it took me aback when I first signed up logged on and gotten and saw the first image I had of a spank card I thought oh my God this is so genius this is such a perfect way to simplify and in take the friction out of the user experience with a theory and which if you’re using metamask are my crypto or myethereumwallet it’s going to be daunting to say the least and I appreciate the thought that goes into you know the list of steps being there but almost it requires almost Sometimes they come in line I will have coding experience to get a few things done so if you can bury that under the hood and what better solution than the conceptual framework that people are familiar with like you just said if having to load up onto a prepaid card with so that you have there are multiple steps there are multiple like almost like skase transitions of a cryptocurrency through transactions and if you can piggyback onto the framework that were already comfortable with that is priceless so I just want to Plaid you for that and that was that really helped that really helps people and I’m sure as things move forward we can get into this now sort of the the spankchain roadmap and then like what’s at dmytryk said on the first podcast where I was first introduced to spank which was when he said what can I do with my Spanx so that’s where we can get into the token economics and your what you had planned to achieve with creating a stable yeah value for that believe it’s going to be booty that’s sort of support supported by spank but you can get into all that I will right now station is a campsite and worked really hard on it there’s a lot of improvements that we’re working on Research need a lot of the features that other other campsites heard of just have like we’re still building like private shows no more options are on profiles were options on the user side to extend your profile stuff like that in addition we are working on a couple things the most immediate upgrade to the campsite will be that we are building a non-custodial payment hubs or actually upgrading our payment Channel infrastructure and the wallet so currently the payment Hub is custodial on behalf of the performers which means that the user’s open up a payment Channel spring training them pay in that channel but then the performers don’t have a channel open the section which means that spankchain is actually holding money on behalf of the performers in the next version of sanctioned by the end of the month we will have upgraded it so that performers are actually getting paid immediately in their spank hard as well and so that reduces a lot of liability for us has has important legal benefits from there we’re going to actually been be extended that to you allow for tokens to be transacted in the payment channel so right now our payment channels only have either but after I think about month-and-a-half you’ll be able to have transacted on the payment channels as well and so that’ll be helpful because then performers will be able to receive booty which is stable and I’ll come to that in a second so booty is so just make sure you go system has two tokens back and booty stank is our steak and took in the booty is is the stable token which means that it’s it’s price is supported in and their mechanisms to keep it stable so that’s that’s a part of this what our ambition is to develop this Bank pay platform which is in progress and from there it’s like okay we know we’ve tested all of this we have a lot of great feedback and and been able to use this wallet system in the wild and then we want to be able to integrated on a number of partner sites and so for their you know if you run a an adult website or platform you’re selling content or or whatever you would be able to integrate spank pay on your site and take her to payments in real time which I think would be pretty compelling and it’s it’s sort of also acted like a single sign-on experience so if you have his bank card as a user when you go to another site that’s integrated the user experience will be that you just like having your password and that’s it and then you can pay for anything on that site without having enter in your username password email address credit card so I think that’ll be pretty compelling we’re building an SDK to allow that to be integrated with besides nuts about 2 to 3 months away so from there are also building a website to manage showcase the technology in a different medium and by the end of this month or or very close to it I expect that we will have launched the stank bank and so the spankbank is what allows you to stake your stank and so staking means that you deposit it and lock it up for some. Of time before you can withdraw so the spank bank is a smart contract and you would send your spank to it and lock it in for any number of months between 1 and 12 and earned the booty that is generated at the State Bank so we have a whole sort of like algorithmic central bank system where we generate Hootie and the amount of Duty that is generated is correlated to the amount of fees that are paid on the platform so for example if we process $50,000 worth of transactions in the first month then we are taking 5% cut on the campsite those 5% fees will be paid in booty to the spankbang so we will collect the booty Sundance State Bank the booty will be counted in burned and reduced from Total Supply and so what what that means is the amount of booty that the bank Target’s is as I said 20 times the fees in the previous. And so if there is $50,000 in fees and we take a 5% cut that’s $2,500 and then if Target a total supply of 20 times that that’s again and so there would be $50,000 a month and then if you know it in at equilibrium if there is $2,500 worth of Duty hidden fees overtime then the keep in mind these are produced in total Supply then the total Supply would go from 50,000 to 4750 right and then it would still Target 50,000 and then another new 2500 would be generated and that 2500 that’s generated is distributed fortunately it’s you all the stank stickers I liked it to sort of you know explain this in analogy staking spank in the same bank is a way for you to participate in the value creation sort of like a co-op and soak for us you you want to stake your spank because you if you want to help grow the network and the booty that you earn act as a fee credits on the platform and so if you are a performer or business and you will be no regularly paying attention and cheese you can look in your stank and generate the booty that will cover your feet and that that can be and then the fortunate thing is that if the network and you know more people start to use it then you you might find yourself in a position where the amount of booty that your spanked is generating actually exceeds the amount of booty that you’re using to spend on and then you can sell it to other people who are also using the network and if he’s okay I’m having this my mind is is being blown in in several different directions all at once right now so the first thing I want to say is that a lot of this stuff is mathematically over my head and from a financial technology perspective over my head but what I’m what I’m struggling to make sense of and I’m sure it will become more clear as you guys do animations and more in a more assertive intro instructional stuff to help it be more accessible to lay folks what I’m actually hearing simply in my mind is that you were of course the word spankbank is so compelling and so well established as a mean that that you would have to choose it above a less glorious turn but what I’m hearing is that the sexy more like a a crypto Credit Union in a way where it’s there’s way more things going on it sounds like than a typical Credit Union would be doing to to to have stakeholders in people with no skin in the game but you’re not necessarily if you join a credit union you may get Kickbacks but you’re not buying a security in that sense there’s some some sort of it’s almost like what I’m hearing you say is that there may be a future value from buying the token that has it at a speculative speculative sort of edge to it but it’s still a utility token because you would only get those benefits if you participate in the ecosystem and those benefits are sort of a byproduct of the actual functional use of the system by multiple different types of players and niches with an ecosystem is that does that help or does that seem like I’m a Computing any of this stuff accurately be a lot more helpful guides and understanding like in a couple weeks when we launched this thing in advance of that will probably put up with a lot of the designs are already done and so you know what sort of intuitive around the interface when you can see you know how much people are staking and how much booty is being collected and fees and how is being distributed and stuff like that and I want it back up for a second and talk about like part of why we’re trying to do this and it’s like because what’s the weather what is the rationale behind lights trying to make in in another stable coin in why did we do it like this so did you don’t mind making a stablecoin is like you know I want one of these two transactions into participating in this economy is that the like the cryptocurrencies volatile right you might not want to hold either because if you healthy 1300 verse last like couple weeks you got racks and lost you know maybe something like 20 or 25% of the value and you know we all did and so but you know if you’re trying to send act like you don’t want to go to Chuck E Cheese’s buy a bunch of tokens and then like oh to the machine in the machines like hey you need more tokens cuz your tokens lost value between when you bought them in there like that so far this is coming with the understanding that don’t people actually might prefer these the stable medium of exchange and so it in that light it’s like well actually if you participate in booty and it works then like we’ve created the stable start a meeting with a completely outside of the existing Financial system so it’s like not you know it doesn’t depend on or or you need to integrate with banks at all at that point if you know the risk if if sanction is able to sustain itself and grow and reduce the perception of a lot of the risks associated with being an early-stage startup then I think that people might find that booty is like a fairly compelling story value because they know it but it can be redeemed then. I know people are or tend to be using it and so like I think I think that’s really powerful because right now like most people don’t have very secure most adult performers in business is at least some uncertainty with the bank accounts that they use in you sure about young performers like in front of Sparta Christmas tree and got a couple months ago that like Rebecca, shut down and stuff like that and in some sense like you know if you’re holding that might not be an issue so that’s part of why we’re doing it on the financial side on the math side like it’s actually not that complicated sounds complicated when I say it like this some of the stability preserving mechanisms are more complicated like we so close to spank Banks really being developed right now there’s like the version that we’re just going to launch in it about a month which you allow you to stick your spanked and we’re not really going to add any sort of stability and forcing mechanisms to that because the supply will be so small like I said we start out with $50,000 worth of Beauty in like you know well station has several million dollars like we can collateralize that over ten thousand percent right so there’s very little risk you on the worst case scenario we buy it all back okay if you mind can I pause you here just for a second so just took for it to it to ya to to represent the the lay person who bought spank on an exchange in Oregon the Ico and so the the pivotal moment for for holders of spank will be too if they want to participate in this economy rather than just dump it or whatever sell it or speculate rated they traded or swing trade it you’re going to actually have the utility function of of putting it into a smart contract the same way that will be like a token swap with an e r c to a in Maine that of a new like the way the EOS did it but instead of instead of going to a new chain you’re actually going to another ethereum smart contract is there right now it’s actually a Perfect Analogy it’s like you know is if suspected a lot of the times when I talk about snatching people are like Oaks pension like what kind of blockchain is that I’m like it’s not it’s just it’s just a cool name it’s all on aetherium right but like you know if it was some like it would be exactly analogous to like doing a token swap on to the new chain except in this case now you got to stake it and you know the rights of a stapler to the beauty that steam generator and then one more question so since you’re not proposing the sort of masternode opportunity there’s I’m assuming is not a limit or is there a minimum staking or could it be any amount and then you get participate in at no minimum you could have a very small amount of snow in practice like you know you’re probably not going to know that much because like you’re still going to have to transact on the three and bossy until I collect the booty for each account that used to steak and so it’ll be bounded by you know how much the Gatsby is are as a proportion of the booty that you earn for staking that much thing right so another way to bring this down back down to earth when you said Co-op it’s like what do they call it a profit-sharing amongst employees so if you are a spankchain live performer and you choose to rather than cash out to pay your bills you keep a percentage of your paycheck basically in the spank bank then you have the opportunity to to have that sort of the same thing that’s that’s the way Credit Union works you know if you give people put their money from their from their jobs into a credit union then that gives leverage to that bank 2 enough support projects under their their bylaws are there whatever Charter Mission however that works so this is if that if I if I’m clear on that then that’s another reason for people to another argument for the the really this utility aspect of it that there can be ongoing value but you can also you know you have a utility for it so anyway. I thought that’s on your end I don’t know if I’m still you know you’re putting your paycheck in there and it gives lover to the bank it’s a little bit different because you know you’re getting paid or or in booty or another crypto and stuff you’re not just like depositing it in the spank bank in earning interest on that you you would have to convert it into spanking and steak that and then you would have that participatory so it’s like one extra okay so what’s up then if let’s say a performer is once you have this sort of what do you call a 12 would it be to see at a double-sided or a direct I guess you would be cutting yourself out of the the the the state channel that connects the their guests are the Tipper the visitor with the performer so that that that transaction is going to be from their spank card it’s going to be booty on on their spank card going to the performers booty on their spank card and then they would still have to they would still be converting that right to eat on their way out of their wallet or they could just keep it in there or they could stay skit as spank I’m sorry I will be able to look at these schematics and so used to all of this will become very very clear very soon perfect audio podcast it will basically our plan is for users to be able to hold Ethan booty at first and then you know an increasing number of tokens and then have that convert in real-time through situational Base Exchange mechanism and then into Beauty in the performers channel so that they don’t have to take on the risk and then when the performer wants to us to eat to you no send it to coinbase or something call Gemini to to put in the bank in the future we’re hoping that you know we can integrate directly with like a debit card provider and so then you can just send booty instantly in your channel just as easily as you would spend anything else at that point like why do you yeah exactly will I will say that I stabbed a knife through my Bank of America card when my shift payments card arrived and it’s been a balancing act you know since then but but I’ll say this is the future for sure and so anybody who says if you missed out on the early days of Bitcoin or the ethereum token sale than you have an opportunity to not miss out on spankchain economy which is really yeah it’s really it’s really starting to move forward fast so are you good with for another few minutes can we talk about it another few things of a cool so yeah thank you so much I mean we really covered a lot in the shower and and I I feel like I will never want to keep abreast and future episodes to to study this phenomenon and I guess I just want to say another another question maybe I got one or two more is that what I think is so invigorating and breathtaking about what’s happening is that not only are you and your team innovating with a decentralized technology in a way that really it really brings out the best and and it helps to sort of worksheet it’s this taboo so there’s been so much so many scams and so much larceny and all kinds of cysts only thing that have given this is technology a bad name and and it will be such a beautiful irony if the most one of the most successful and fast-moving actual use cases where people are not just buying tokens instead of actually using a network legitimately is going to be another Vice I can others another yeah I mean it’s like once a toaster win Satoshi dice launch Terry Voorhees and now look what the stuff that they’re doing its you can’t you cannot make moral ethical argument for how powerful the projects that they’re doing are now so I just think it’s a beautiful thing that you’re doing and I can I guess I want to ask you a little I’ve noticed but stay on your on the YouTube channel for spankchain you’re seeing very straight-laced folks attending conferences about ethereum blockchain and you were able to articulate this really Advanced out-of-the-box thinking that you’re doing applying the payment channels in the state channels and it’s really for the people who get this technology in her immersed in it your outstanding with the Innovations are doing in that in that crowd so my question for you is who in your sphere really get this and I really are you really going to be a raving fans in and real seller have the kids from the understanding of how powerful is we know what you’re designing here and how it can be applied in other cases so this just become sort of the high people say silkroad bootstrapped Bitcoin usage who knows what what your framework is going to end up being adapted to and what systems it’s going to continue to disintermediate so I’m just curious you know are people really getting getting you the way you’re coming from or are they still scratching their heads or what’s up with all that yeah so in response like that I see a fart fart you know about us the irony around and being like seeing is in a negative light but then like actually you know where the team of really Township engineer’s and we’re trying to do really cool things we we are the most legit project pretending to be a shitcoin where the most projects or should coins pretending to be legit product we made ourselves a joke because we think it’s funny and because we think that like Schumer is actually the best way to help normalize some some of these couple Eno strange concept that we’re bringing up in these conversations that were forcing me to go to these conferences and we’re finding that a lot of times it’s women that come for sinners like you know this is amazing this this is like you know on the right path and unlike feminists two schools of feminism there’s like some like bored with sex workers are coming forward in and really supporting us finding us like speaking opportunities and and connections because they realize that like this form has has the opportunity to help our community to securely manage their own financing without fear of if you had your money then like this there’s no like 10 p.m. standing in your way to to receiving your paycheck or something there is to basically expand the envelope of like who’s in on the joke of spanking thing in fairlea polarizing on purpose right like we there yet. Like that’s crazy like you guys like my my current understanding reality like prevents me from accepting that this is a legit project and then we get you know I’m the other side people are like this is the best thing I’ve ever heard about like how do I help like I want in you know and I think that’s that’s what we need right now because we’re not as interested in people who were like oh this is kind of cool you know that that’s not very helpful I don’t think that’s like how movements make progress I think you know that are staged it’s it’s people who like don’t take themselves too seriously end and when they see something they sort of her curse in their own mind and I like you know something tells me that like there’s something we’re going on here and I want to I want to find out what and the people that do are tend to be pleasantly surprised that was saying there’s a lot of work going on in unity in building legitimate products and platform they they then you know we are in their support and it’s really validating thing we’ve had a lot of people come forward and and start to help us in that regard people from crypto communities like pretty diverse communities awesome and awesome well is his next next level Wizardry and I salute you and plug you so much and I actually I thought came to me today, leading up to this is it a did you ever see the movie better off dead by any chance with the John Cusack in the same generation issue or not but it’s a classic and there is for anybody who has seen this I would love to really invoke the archetype of there was there was a younger brother I mean I guess I’ll just give a little back on it and just a little bit not going to spoil it but it is appropriate for this the kind of anchor this is this archetype I really empowerment and it said there was this the whole movie is about the psychodrama of John Cusack being in love and having this hyper monogamous monogamous like obsession with this this girlfriend then he has to go through all of this sort of fighting the jocks and being like competing in the social hierarchy and social pyramid eventually he gets to be in love with the more down-to-earth foreign exchange student the French foreign exchange student I thought was more desirable from the beginning but there’s interesting this is very interesting tiny little micro subplot which is that his younger brother is sort of totally immune to all of the psychodrama of the family and all of The Madness of relationships and he’s just in his room just hacking before computers were even really that that much fun to play with with the the form of hacking that you was doing what she was cutting out the little coupon offerings on cereal boxes and saving up and ordering all these different Novelties and he got like a laser gun in the mail and he got the psych how to build a rocket ship thing and one of the things he got was how to pick up Trashy Women they open this door and one seeing and there’s a bunch of like they’d start a strip club hang out with them and that Jimmy that just epitomizes the opportunities for those of us who drop out of the mainstream sort of sexual Rat Race and really get creative and Innovative with how we can have more fun and do more work and Innovative thing so if you ever do I mean watch that movie you can know that there’s a place in my heart for you because I see you is like the grown up version of that hacker who is this you know working make turning the system upside down and everyone else is just sort of so sucked into their reality tunnel they couldn’t even imagine thinking out of the box so I’ll definitely watch it now it’s a classic too so I hope you guys enjoy that and that reference and I think that was yeah really good rap for everything I was curious about getting caught up on and I would say that I’ve been just I’ve been telling my friends to become involved with spinning chain and to get on the platform because you don’t have to be over sex if I report a fight on it you can actually just build community and make friends across the world and I think maybe what you might what you all might do is have like a safe for work not safe for work kind of toggling notification where people want to just hang out on spankchain then they can choose what level of how risky it gets or whatever but I know people who are on their doing yoga there’s people on there doing puzzles is people on their taking a nap you know and I’m taking people say figure out how to have passive income make money while you sleep well hey there a fetishist out there who will give you a cryptocurrency spank life to make money while you sleep so everybody wins nobody loses except for the parasitic and come and on that note I like to say a mean if you want to close this out with some Last Words maybe some you know what what if you had a pitch to the people listening what should they do to get involved with why should they get involved and then if you have any website URLs or any Twitter handles you want to share then by all means I just wanted to say thanks for having me if you’re listening to this and you’re interested in getting more involved go to the bank shein.com website find the link to our Discord and come join the community we hang out there we share announcements updates on the campsite future plans and you know just me and the picture is you know whatever sort of our hang out spot so come join us if you’re new to cryptocurrency if you’ve been exposed cryptocurrency there’s a Vibrant Community will help help you understand if you are new to adult you know people will sort of show you the ropes so yeah stay tuned for updates on spankchain all right thank you so much you mean depreciate it I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time and I’m excited to see what happens next and hopefully we will continue to have you and other folks from spank chain back on to keep us updated any important Milestones by all means you know this is this would be an outlet and yeah thank you again so much you’ve changed my life and I’m very very happy to be here in this moment of opportunity in the world with with people like you really stepping up so yeah we’ll talk again soon and I want you to have a great day and a great rest of your week one last one is like we couldn’t do it without you and we do it for people like you awesome broadcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple at provide ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Archer Park. 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