Tag Archives: combat

Denny Meyer Giving a Speech

Fighting to Honor Sexual Diversity in the Military with Denny Meyer TPP284

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In this episode I’m blessed to have the opportunity to explore the brave efforts of a gay activist fighting to honor sexual diversity in the U.S. military

About Denny:

The son of WWII Holocaust refugees, Denny was reared bilingually in the mid 1940s postwar immigrant community on New York City’s Upper West Side. His mother, he notes with pride, arrived at Ellis Island as an illegal alien in 1938. She taught him that, “there is nothing more precious than American Freedom.”

He has been an activist for 50 years, starting with his first march with the NAACP at the age of 13 in 1960.

In 1968 he volunteered, “To pay my country back for my family’s freedom.

He served for ten years in two services; in the Navy aboard an aircraft carrier, in a helicopter squadron, at NATO US headquarters; and in specialized Army Reserve units; and served as an inter-agency liaison and negotiator.

Sgt. Denny has spoken at universities and colleges including Brown, Columbia, Harvard, Hofstra, New York University, University of Southern California, Tufts, George Washington University, Lehman College and Brooklyn College, among other venues; combining history, humor, pathos, and anger to tell his story.

He is the national Public Affairs and Veterans Affairs officer of AVER and edits GayMilitarySignal.com

Moshram Banner

Permaculture Eco-Warriors Establish The Moshram Part 2 TPP281

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In this episode I’m joined by MC Mycopath for a two part series on the past, present, and future of his personal permaculture journey and the establishment of The Moshram

My Non Verbatim Show Notes

MM:

10 years doing landscape consultations, small scale urban repurposing of people’s front and back yards, more hip with local, everything that’s taking place, microbio in soil, plants that co-mingle,

also consulting folks with health

certifications achieved through multiple biochemists

learned that the more fresh foods that we consume, the healthier our cells are

the body that takes us around here

with that, understanding and passion for that, I really wanted to be able to provide highest quality product of food for myself and others, coupled with education

spin farming, brother and I spin farming, didn’t necessarily bring in permaculture

added permaculture principle layer to spin farming

densely growing high value crops in small area

regenerate the living systems

help maintain my living system, at a cellular level, also at a financial and social level

been about 5 years, that I’ve been on this site, had multiple sites over the years

site, least likelihood of it being taken from underneath my feet, all apart of journey

seeing successes and failures in past projects

led me to finding this space

it was through a friend, that was aware that I was looking to scale up

spin farming in brothers back yard, with brother

then when on to slightly expanding at space I was at

really like to bring it all to one location and just do this

generally around vegetable crops

annuals predominantly

put in a layer of perennial crops

also longer term species, fruit trees

learned fascinating things about fruit

fruit tree requires least amount of water over long time period

gives back a lot to soil

soil is really just millions or billions of living organisms

eating pooping, dying, whole things perpetuating

through roots and leaves, branches, fruits, they drop all feeding system

year in year out

bring together this whole concept

put it at a term, silvopasture

rows of fruit trees, or some type of tree

aid in creating shade

aid in slowing down wind

not requiring a lot of water, relative to other annual crops

in between rows, would grow annual crops

maybe these annual crops are things just to regenerate soil

rotational crop, in between lettuce, grow vetch, cow pea, to reinvigorate the soil from what was depleted from what was the previous crop you cultivated

what we set out to do here

very densely packed rows of vegetable crops to sell at market and too individuals through CSA type program

longer term species of varying fruit trees

simply move forward upon goals of project, something that’s always an unknown, fortunately and unfortunately, that collaborative team of 3 individuals broke down

mediator, wasn’t sustainable, they didn’t vibe well, both wanting to walk away which they did

I was not very interested in walking away from another project, having it swept out from under me, again ,because these two egos weren’t collaborating

move post differences

differences got in the way

I wasn’t feeling, stepping away from all of the work we had done from contouring the land, to bringing in so much organic matter, infusing bacterium, all sorts of soil microbiology

perennial fruit trees, you have to wait some time, 3-5 years minimum to reap harvest

I didn’t have it in me to just be like you guys aren’t into, either am I, I am into it

don’t just want to do it here, want to perpetuate this stamp, different biomes

so cal region, mediteranean biome, only about 7 med, climates on the planet, tend to be the most lucrative for humans to co-exist with surroundings, temperatures, food crops, wild and domesticated

love to see what it’s like in other bioregions as well, other climatic elements

we’ve got going on what we have here

you came forward saying how interested you were in helping perpetuate this project, it was like the clouds parted

working on this site, we’re on 10s of acres, just working out a little over an acre, just maintenance alone for one person is daunting to say the least

just because we put together a holistic system doesn’t mean there’s no more work

actually perpetual, no end to amount of work, just in pruning things, cultivating

easy to plant seed, easy to harvest, cultivation in between, I don’t know if it’s gonna survive or not, I’ll do everything I can

lot of energy mental, physical, spiritual

one dude, isn’t gonna hold the world on his back man, either are two

TP: makes me think I’m gonna use another term for defining permaculture and call it ecological parenthood

caring for something to maturity

young families go through it, terrible twos, fighting, health similar thing

tree system here, adolescent,

MM: not as easy as dealing with child, can’t teach a tree how to fight off a squirrel, they’re bullies

TP: the timeliness of this, synchronicities will be unveiled later

rick straussman, first actual government sanctioned psychedelic research studies since the 70s, gap of 20 years

spirit molecule, interviewed,

recently, basically saying, people would ask did he take DMT,

he would give a vague answer or plausible deniability

eventually recently came out, admitted, yeah, I was doing it

I’m like fuck yeah, I wanted to hear that for so many years, scientist had the balls to do what he was talking about

ties back together, something he said, meta level life philosophy

you know, back then I had my whole career ahead of me still, a lot to lose, judged, critique, older, less of my life left, that’s much less life to lose

we’re at a point where I don’t want to piss off the wrong people, I don’t want to be a target, wait til we have resilience before we have grand opening at this site

eventually will ripened, eventually forced by demand, people will need it

sweet spot in time, security measures, support we need, capital, be in place for the time we want to open the gates

get to that point when, we did the thing, not much left to lose, tell the story, give real names, not give a fuck

certain things now, I feel like, at least statute of limitations has run out on some things, one metric

that feeling, we’ll get to a point where we don’t have that much to lose

my side of story of having fallen in love with this site, toured project in the past, wishing I could be more connected, occasion to visit

definitely feel like it was one of the most epic works in progress of so cal permaculture

ability to do it right

social permaculture dynamics of human sector, zones of humans, sector of humans, human elements, could have most beautiful property, dynamics surrounding neighbors be your worst enemy, false starts,

time energy, blood, blisters, heart ache, amount of effort that goes into permaculture project, somebody that’s they’re mission, to have that be continually ripped out in front of you

people don’t even see it

persecution of religious sects, we are the lost tribe of permies, that are constantly being haranged by neighbors

adapted us also to travel light in our personal empires

positive side effect of lifestyle of ecological romance

nudge nature to create symphonies of seed and soil

less hindered

student of Tyler Durgen, waking up after car crash with Edward Norton, the world I see, laying out strips of vennisen

hunter gathers, thriving on the carcass of industrial collapse

utopian anarchoprimitivists, intellectual elite, from eugene, green anarchist, wanna be poser,

not everybody was a poser, the heads that were the elitist, very hyper intellectual, authors and writers, wind bags, had all this talk

in eugene the founder of food not lawns, we’d go there talk bs about living primitive, blessing her with presence of our lofty conversations, decades later we don’t have our food forest, we don’t have fruit trees maturing, resentment, burnt bridges

super extra appreciate hard work that’s been done

this site, work you’ve done, huge grace, a pass, I could and should very well be punished for how far I’ve strayed from the path of planting trees, defending them, standing by them, storms, storming off of partners and lovers, mission and duty to make a stand

there’s a lot of times I’ve said this is not the hill I’m gonna die on, and this is the first time I can actually say this is a high that I would die on, for a lot of reasons, biggest gift to me, is to know

who is tantra punk, wacko jerk off wanna be tyler durgen alter ego, that split off from psychedelic ceremonies that got botched, and now this floating soul part of my old wounded self, has created this internet porn star wanna be freak, don’t have much ecological, I have bastard children trees, all over the place, to be able to be like

while you were out there, doing this thing, that could have got you in trouble, some what of an adventure, fool hardy, never would have expected that I could just cheat that time that I walked away from the permaculture path, did this freaky stuff

hey ben, dinners ready, fruit falling from trees, I just get to get back into the zone, almost 10 years since I was in deep coastal mountain broad acre permaculture, doing the trees, doing the systems right, the scale, the soil

waltz into this at a point you’d be beleagured, bromance novel cover if there ever was one

thanks to the designer of designers, tip had lift glass to him

be great to go into the shark tank part of this, now the reinforcements in the form of me and my humble but growing financial capital I can put in to keep things afloat, elbow grease, sweat equity

optimizing dance of mutuality, with responsibilities, rights, tasks, finances, between the two of us

alchemy we’re doing, the renaissance of this project, bring into 2.0 era

trajectory of , drawing from the permies community, paul wheaton, survival podcast, larry santoyo, different instructors we’ve had

business model for the site, the rebel farmers like sepp holzer, austria, kramaterohoff, epic contour narrow ponds support subtropical microclimates, high elevation fruit trees

so abundant, epic, done epic shit, considered to be the ultimate rock star, don’t think any other place on earth, other mature permculture projects, the profitability and scale and grandeur, I don’t know what I would compare to the kramaterhoff on earth

wonders of the world of permaculture tour, walk through it sometime

business model, everything else in agriculture sector, globalized race to the bottom, poison, toxic

convince people to want to buy american, niche for premium products, usually sick people who can afford to take your advice

don’t want to give crutch of supplying, want to teach them to do it themselves, leverage their acreage, their community

the idea of farming to enable other people to not be horticulturalists, shift from that as soon as possible

paradigm, living the dream, market gardeners, the biproduct of creating plenty of best varieties of food we’d like to eat, we’ll have excess, and with that excess we can play god to an extent in the economy because of how much of ecological ninjas we are

rather than try to package it all in plastic, get it in all the stores, scale it to the world

we make a more dense local economy out of it, healing center, learning center, teaching them how to fish, not selling them a fish per se

in my crude nut shell of a pitch, that’s the trajectory we’ve been most in agreement about

if somebody had infinite budget to invest, why should they buy into this as working co-op member, or non-working co-op member, how can people benefit from helping us

MM: few dudely dudes, I’ve met could really have no care to well being of nature around them, small minority of people I’ve spoken with of time on this path, over 20 years

experience with biodiesel co-op, very localized project, I would do education to engineering firms, groups

education at earth day festivals, people contribue, become non-working members of biodiesel co-op because they like what’s going on, think it’s a good direction

if anybody has capital, monetary, social, spiritual, any of the 8 forms of capital, that they are willing to share to perpetuate, the direction of this project

this may sound overzealous, I couldn’t think of a better project, or more dedicated individuals to invest that capital in

it’s one of those put your money where your mouth is

my clients in landscaping and in the health regeneration, many of them, actually buy into what I have to share, because of how I’m living my life

I’m not just using words, I’m hands in the soil, I’m doing everything I can at every corner

from what I know of you, been a crucial part of so many projects, that at one point or another it wasn’t your jive anymore for whatever reason

here we are find ourselves together on a mountain we’re will to die on

and it takes a community always

for anyone that would like to be a part of this community and see it perpetuate

be able to visit the site

local,

to benefit from the harvests of all of this, where else are you gonna put your money, time, energy, love

I’m not sure

it’s like you said man, this is one of the rare sites of southern california, any and all help, helps perpetuate a holistic project, working towards the great good of the local and world community when it comes down to it

held a lot of retreats, get people from all over the world, host in tropics, pretty good centralized area, highly abundance

ripe things to eat, throughout the year

amount of people that congregate, so diverse, so incredible, have a lot to share

at this point we have a site that any and all people interested have the ability to share

before it’s all been other people’s sites, very temporary, the time that gets spent there

long term expanded version of those experiences, and “retreats”

where else are you gonna put your resources, if you want to see great things happen, cause that’s all we’re really into

passionate

tend to only roll with those who are equally passionate about making this place a better place to be

agenda 21,

different concept of human settlement zones, from what we’re working towards here

TP: yes

to say the most and the least, that says it all, what could I add to that

nuts and bolts of this business modeling, goes back to legacy of my parents at some point will read the manifesto my father wrote for member based, for-profit nonprofit, fruit based operation, deep in heart of washington state apple orchard lands, building a massively, dense, intensive educational commercial project, rusticness, design constraint, make all tools, tools to make tools, melting down old cars, human powered, they were one of the first and most highly respected, wasn’t hippie commune, very studious, technical, published technical manual, subscribers to periodical, whether they purchased wares or we students, subscribe to catalog, kind of like micro version of mother earth news

department of making you said, interviewed mom, years ago, maybe now the time, one of those things you never know when it’s appropriate, get people on podcast, get perspectives, state of world, might be our last conversation, could go for anybody, did great interview with mom about 10 years ago, transapocalyptic, utopian for her, fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree

hard dharma, karmic seeds of melt down of family, trauma, wasted years, trouble, lot of years to get on the course that fell apart

a lot of people, children of the hippies

there’s something magical about the fact that here we are kind of at the age our parents were, as a generation, hippie, back to the land 2.0, we had woodstock,the rainbow gathering spawned from that, what are children of hippie’s doing now, actually fulfilling some of those dreams

we have now psychedelic shamanism, and not just acid, the electric kool aid test, these people went back to the land, no shamanic oversight, no elders,

even Geoff Lawton jokes, sad joke, comic tragedy, I wonder how many communes failed because they didn’t understand proper solar orientation, they bought land on north facing slopes, gave themselves an uphill battle on steep slopes facing the shadow of the sun, don’t even know why they melted down

permaculture,

we can learn from a lot of those mistakes, well positioned to demonstrate, and proudly display the next generation of the back to the land movement again at a time my mother talked about in the podcast

people went back to the land at the peak of the OPEC oil crisis in early 1970s

it wasn’t 1969 and summer of love, melt down of haight ashbury into tweaker rape culture madness,

they didn’t go directly from peak of 60s to back to the land, survivalist, apocalyptic thing, cities going to evaporate and collapse, economy gonna collapse, have to head to hills and start building a future

but brought in patriarchy, monoculture, only little bits of eastern mysticism

wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for that

now, okay, this is for me the most pure and karmically cleansed and most righteous set of circumstances to do your thing

are you really these eco artisans the whole world should pay attention to, or destined to fail

may not be the last place I ever work on

do world tour of biomes

if you take permaculture design course you want to be like a army ranger, navy seal, eco macguevery, swiss army knife, want to be deployed in every climate

because you know how to do things like harvest snow melt for nursery underground

be a bad ass shit, being a bad ass eco warrior with all this knowledge

do what special forces and green berets, what if all the engineering and money and investing and capital, everything that went into napalm and agent orange, if instead of destroying ecology, all that cultural engineering of warfare, went into actually creating a more resilient opposition through permaculture

tactical permaculture, make it impossible for them to put land mines in territory you want to defend, created thorny trellising, motes, father in military

being a bad ass, be tactical, have a reason to train, not mma, good for them but

wanna have something I love that’s worthy of defending that would keep me in shape just by working it, origins of kung fu and farming

bit of a tirade from me

MM:

I really like how you brought up that the fruit does not fall far from the tree, parents

definitely feel, that’s a thing that goes on in nature, we’re a part of it

we’re carbon copies of these people we call our parents

we emulate them in so many ways, because of the signature for which they gave us, dna

as father was one of most brilliant men I’ve ever met in my life

I would come forward to father with things I’ve learned, he would share how could he thought it was, what it made him think about

prior too, a little apprehensive, most brilliant man, hey check this out, not knowing what kind of feedback, always positive re-enforcement

honoring that we can do as individuals in relationship to our ancestors, that can be very important for mental scape, how we conductor ourselves in our lives

bro, sounds like a spitting image of your dna tree

I would imagine your mother and father had some similar thing for them

fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree

TP: I should shout out thank you to your father, have to name the library after him

lots of bro time to catch up on, and create that space where we can, aya ceremonies, 2 or 3 generations in one ceremony of family members, pretty epic

we’re healing ourselves, healing each other, healing the masculine, and creating a safe and welcoming space for the feminine to be free to be fully expressed

said before no offense, I kinda feel like, well it goes back to waynes world, fully functional babe layer, you can design for the woman in you, and the woman you want on you, save 9th form of capital for another episode

not a monastery, not womanizers either, between monastery and rapey womanizer cult, we’re probably somewhere in the middle

we need our other ethical brothers to step up, we have some healing to do in our tribe of permaculture, takes a lot of those talks about our fathers and what they did and didn’t teach us

so, that conversation is an open forum, its fun to shoot guns and practice your kicks and punches, equally important to break down and let yourself be, pummelled and tenderized by letting go of trauma, letting brother hood energy find those deep wounds and fractures, more energy buried we could be apply to our tree parenthood, soil parenthood, aquaculture parenthood, seed parenthood

MM:

along those lines of the multigenerations of lineage through psychedelic experience, its always bewildered me, with my psychedelic experiences with mushrooms, everytime I sense my grandfather,at first really weird thing, now a presence I’m aware of, hear and feel mutterings, only knew for short period of my life

at this point it’s very interesting, grandfather said, you’re back, maybe I’m back, it’s nice to be with you

thanks for helping to perpetuate my father,

what can I do for us

great thing

TP: it’s like working for a company, at office chair, every once in a while the owner comes in, the day the owner comes in, checking it out, what’s your name, trippy, ancestor worship is a thing

use it or lose it

I feel in this life, pretty damn abandoned by ancestors, been torn asunder to depths of hell such that ancestors have been blocked off by dark armies of hell, demons, but we’re gonna compost the shit out of them, find that the spirit guides were always there, they were just blocked, we didn’t make it easy for them to get back to us

of all the times I’ve felt I don’t know if I belong here, don’t know what I should be doing here, try to destroy ego, never lasts, very few times and place where I feel there is pure righteousness

liberate this land from all the plastic, multigenerational journey

dance with past and future, toxic gick, pure nature, spirits definitely guiding us

applauding efforts, works cut out for you, each one teach one, clean it up, scale it out

microcosm of what has to be done for the whole planet, on every planet

MM: not controlled by forces that think they’re higher

TP: decentralized, mycopathic, path of mycology

talk about martial arts, personal development, brother hood, men’s group experience that we’re working on and developing synthesis of spiritual, self defense, fitness through working the land, grace of being connected to your yin, notion of not just another wet noodle retreat center, traipsing around in loosest clothing, look at me I look like I just jumped out of a Rambo set, and yet I’m spiritual, dancing, smelling flowers, appreciating all the rainbows, but I can also do some ninja rolls, lift some heavy shit, drag some shit around, and do what’s gotta be done, ideal of a shaolin temple, double dragon fruit

playing up this idea, thinking about, if I was a kid, in the peak of my GI Joe fan boyness I would love to be shooting airsoft guns, tactical training with seed shot pellets, was nature boy, played in nature

how much fun families can be having, applying energy going into videos or going into being a boxer, mma fighter

masculine energy, protection, defense, epic garden project, for masculine energy to balance itself and exhaust itself, place for healthy catharsis, healthy relationships, families, we can both speak to

will be legacy to leave behind, a martial, permaculture, ecological, new martial culture as well, no surprise, or coincidence that we both, been blessed by profound journey’s into what other brutish me respect, not just purple breathers, also to some degree bad asses

love to hear you talk about, the spirit of the dragon fruit that animates you and your kung fu gardening techniques

MM:

made reference to that hippie thing, an elder at one of the rainbow gatherings I was sitting with , great acronym, term hippie, happy intelligent person, pursuing infinite excellence

never my thinking when it came to hippies, people that smelled bad, sat around got high and kept sitting around

just talking isn’t accomplishing,

pursuing infinite excellence, taking it to another level, punk rock perspective

you are a hippie, you smell like scum, I’m your worst enemy, a middle class street punk

and I always resonated with that, really nice to get that different perspective of what hippie could be

greater mobility in body, sought out chi gong master, chinese yoga for lack of better terms

not just stretching

entire philosophy, after about a year of training, sifu said, training is great, very yin, balance out with kung fu, more yang,

open to this, cool

always wanted, wanted to have military training for various reasons it wasn’t something that happened, along same line of hippie

kung fu, nearly synonymous, life mastery

mastering whatever life is for me, to me

level of giving back that comes from all of that

began training kung fu

4-5 days a week sometimes 2 sessions a day, my body started to really get in tune with motions, weapons training, when we think back to the shaolin, where kung fu started

these were farmers, weapons were their farm tools, really started to come through as my body got accustomed to movements, started using these implements in the farm, body now knew how to use them in a more appropriate way

ergonomics

rake or hoe, swing it out with arms, shoulders, and back, or put it out there and move hips back and forth, all power in your hips

spirals up through feet, hips, outward

utilizing that technique with farm tools

new relationship with tools and how to work with land and my body, all in same go

weeding, clearing debris, chopping things down, practicing kung fu

martial arts/life mastery

mastering far more of my body, tools, and tools that work with land

symbiosis, something that we can all benefit to apply in our lives, in any way shape or form

not everybody’s gonna go be a farmer

maybe you’re pushing a vacuum

you can cause strain or you can no cause strain to body, which then causes strain or not on the body, perpetuates through spirit

something that I’m still evolving into I feel like but its very empowering

self reliance

being able to provide for yourself, doesn’t just mean growing food, having land, also means self defense

never know where you’re gonna find yourself

bring those things into all of those life practices, another science that fills one of those holes in that permaculture raft we get pushed out into the water

brings it all back around, self feeding, self perpetuating

mentally physically and spiritually

TP:

brings us full circle

pleasant meanderings, through path of this convo, summary of most of our various contexts, working or grubbin on fruit, whatever it is, comings and goings, as we’ve been carving out this niche for ourselves

always reminds me of the movie that got me first enchanted with martial arts, van damme, blood sport

here we are, tactical permaculture moment going back to deepest roots of romance with nature and martial arts

ninjitsu master, frank dux, he was talking to parents, european parents of young frank dux, depicted to be wine farmers, vineyard, meeting of parents

train with japanese ninjitsu master

frank told me you grow vines, boys like vines need training, martial science brings mind, body, spirit together

we’re fulfilling that prophesy

we’re dudes,

point about military, I mentioned this not too long ago, in jest, valid point

hey america, if you would have given me a real war, or real cause to fight for, I would have served on the front lines, it’s been nothing but bullshit, you don’t get to have this body/mind

don’t give traumatic brain injury, lead poisoning, blow my limbs off, make me unable to sustain a relationship, cut my VA benefits for using cannabis

you don’t get any of that shit, not in this lifetime, maybe that could change, who knows what battles will need to be fought

the joke I made, we’re not we’re not less of bad asses that we didn’t get military training, we’re actually more, if we can be, without having the training of those instructors, and we can train our damn selves, read same manuals, same marksmanship, survival training, mindset of discipline, selection

break you down

I was my own drill segerant, life circumstances carved my ass from cookie dough to wood

health, wellness, survival, comes from putting skin in the game

better to have warrior in garden than gardener in war,

debilitating malformed meme of utopian pacifism

idea that we all need to be genderless, a mush of micro trauma egg shell walking, I’m a man, I embrace that, I don’t need impose, I embrace and love and support cherish diversity, space for everyone

phrase, vin armani brought to attention:

seed conversations of what I’d like to call and have been implementing

permaculture training experience for tactically minded, some of the best training, with hardcore lesbian women, guns and ammo, blades, bows and arrows plaster their walls instead of boy band posters, those are my best friends

ongoing thing that, I want to be the guy that the butch warrior lesbians like to play with on a full moon when they feel like, interesting romance, another story

have to cover my ass and say it’s not hyper masculine, toxic masculine militia

who wants to be securing the perimeter, that’s what we need first, can’t have whole tribe or family unless we can defend them

call to action, strong willed, strong minded, disciplined, people who want to be bangin sticks as they say in pekiti tirsia kali training, continual life long conditioning and training, being a warrior , really mean something for good cause

quote: michael hopf, those who remain,

hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times,

put that in your pipe and smoke it

enough from me

over and out, roger

thank you again

MM: honor brother, insightful, exciting having this conversation, whoever you are out there listening, hope you were able to glean something from it

summary, I feel like, initially I’d stated how going back to permaculture, can be applied to anything that you do, require taking a permaculture design course with instructor you’d like to learn from, and personality types are thing

I have studied a lot of things in my short time here, does always come back to the principles of permaculture

when I educate others on health, they don’t know it but they’re getting a quick permaculture design course for the body

utilizing all these principles around the landscape we call our bodies

a bunch of cells living together

body, gardening cells, out there gardening soil conditions to provide foods for our cells to utilize

its one of the most valuable trainings that I’ve ever had in my life,

people that also take these course, share similar sentiment

that’s about it

end this with as mc mycopath

end a lot of health lectures with a rap, haven’t done this one in a while, see how it goes

TP: gotta get that out in the drum circle, put some beats on that, hippie drum beats on that

more to come

this conversation is to be continued, next, while we’re still tying up lose ends, give audio tour of integrated systems and logic of design of systems, address

situational report, what we’ve got going what we need help with, if people have time or resources or expertise, what’s been established what’s being established, hearing a bit about what we’re processing, actual road map of what we’re doing, laid out the backstory

of what could be an epic opportunity for ourselves

all sliding scales of wealth, we’re providing

free offerings online, all kinds of content, you’ll be whippin up a podcast, holding the camera for each other to do a lot of the teaching we want to

following up with some a/v content

be comin at cha again soon

big love to you and to all the forces seen and unseen that made it possible to be at this point

Sacred Yes Sacred No with David Bruce Leonard TPP31

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tp-david-bruce-leonard-picIn this episode we discuss David’s work at the Earth Medicine Institute where he provides healing programs that incorporate both the loving arts and the martial arts. We then discuss some of the ethics and dangers of sexual healing work followed by an overview of some of the  benefits of and precautions  for the practice of semen retention.

David’s Bio:
David Bruce Leonard is a deep ecologist, body-worker, Qigong practitioner, acupuncturist, martial artist, and plant lover. He has studied medicine with teachers in Asia, North and South America, and Hawai’i. David believes that our health and the meaning of our lives are inseparable from our interactions with the natural world. He has worked in a bank, done marine whale research, and has been seen in public attempting to dance Argentine tango.

David is available for workshops and consultations in the creation of men’s groups and support circles. Private coaching sessions for men or couples are available. He can be reached via his website www.EarthMedicineInstitute.com.

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin okay so David Bruce Leonard at the Earth medicine Institute how are you doing today welcome to the tundra Punk podcast well I’m baby myself pretty well all right all right well I was introduced to your work by a dear friend of mine and I I’ve been looking at your website and excited about all the books that you’ve done and I’m very new to you and all of your great works in the world but I’m very excited I think you’re doing a lot of the stuff that I aspire to be doing in my my pets so if you don’t mind give us a kind of some background how did you get to where you’re at now and spend as much time as feels natural and then we’ll go from there and talk about some of the specifics I mean like you I’m very interested and sacred sexuality and also self-defense I think a lot of those pieces were War because I was beating up a lot of the kid so ocean traumatized as a young man and well later on when I’ve always been sort of sexually precocious when I ended up in high school I I just part of my shadow and part of whatever you want to call that there’s a part of me that really wanted to be loved and accepted by girls when I started dating so I kind of fell into that and then became very interested and sacred sexuality and eventually that became clear that was a piece of piece of shadow in the shadows the parts of ourselves you don’t want to look at it so I started doing some work with that part of myself and began writing and it’s been an ongoing process awesome so you’re in what you’re not one of the Hawaiian Islands right now so and then do you have a dwelling at that Institute site is it that works no actually I take care of my mom so I’m in on Maui and my mom is elderly and I lived with her and take care of her I’m just here for her so I want us to be as good as I can make them awesome awesome it’s so that the facility is you have like a like a Healing Center and Training Center kind of Temple Sacred Space or no we do not miss is here depending on which island them on cuz I teach on on Kauai and Maui and the big island and Oahu so this place is I use on Maui as different facilities and places on the big island and on Kauai and Oahu also but no I’m kind of medicine Institute we have been different instructors on different islands and and then when I travel I also you know I teach another places also oh that’s cool yeah I’m actually I’m really looking into and considering that kind of more of a flexible kind of gypsy model for instruction and holding in creating space for especially the darker kind of Shadow work I don’t know if this is something that you’ve encountered or that you’ve considered but there is I guess I would say for my personal experience there’s there’s a lot of potential liability when you’re opening up these deep wounds and people and you just never know what kind of support they’re going to need you can try to be very supportive but I feel like a lot of drama and personality conflicts and issues and liabilities can accumulate in one fix location I don’t know if that’s something that’s like a factor that you consider or or do not the sacred sexuality week each is erotic body work but it’s talk to couples so I don’t actually do erotic body work on clients that’s not part of what I do I train couples to work on each other I’m so in some ways that’s what it mitigates a lot of the liability because I don’t do I don’t do any erotic touching people I know people do when I think it’s fine work is just not what I choose to do Andy self-defense work is is it is an already existing system called Fast offense which I I began to learn about the roots of that back in the mid-80s and I’ve been tracking it ever since and I become certified in that a few years ago and said that work is already very established and is actually very little liability with a self-defense piece huh yeah so mostly I like right now I’m working on a series of of instructional video tapes for couples so they can learn to do a rouse work on each other so the work itself code can be therapeutic I mean theoretically it’s therapeutic if it’s done with couples but I don’t work as a therapist with people who been traumatized sexually that not with the erotic Body Works and ends with the self-defense would you work with that Banda legal issues with a picture right it’s a very tricky work and we have to be extremely squeaky-clean specialist men doing this work so right right will this is against is so exciting for me to hear that you’re bringing these two worlds together because I feel like every time I start to open my mouth as myself a sexual abuse Survivor and you know a victim of different forms of non-sexual physical emotional violence building the sacred Warrior Peaceful Warrior masculine archetype within myself as a as a response to buy wounding every time I start talking about that with people who are more on the the new age sort of trip they get sort of shut down to order they get very hostile to it because it’s it’s bringing in you know the notion of fighting in combat in and that’s something that they would just rather iick neglect or ignore as part of the reality that were in and and I think that’s not really holistic good for trail in the world you know the wonderful and beautiful and peaceful place and it can be a very violent dangerous place and we ignore either one of those possibilities that are parallel that created the work that fast was originally part of service model mugging which was created by a man than that Thomas he created fast because he was sexually assaulted as a repeatedly in an orphanage and that was how all of this work came about so I think it and I think it would take somebody like that who’s been through hell and back and come out the other side to really create something as brilliant as well as what we the now in the past offense so I can totally see why you’re doing the work and you know why I do the work and one that created the the self-defense work right eye I was exposed to his material when I listen to something it was called the self-defense Show podcast and I don’t know it’s been defunct for years I don’t even know if it’s still available online but they interviewed him and I heard that years ago and I was totally stoked on it and I picked up his book defend yourself I think it still hurts very good yeah it’s filled with those you know the powerful statistics and yet his story would just bring you to tears and and I have always since I have known about the adrenal stress response training in the model mugging and all this revolutionary scientific street self-defense combat kind of restructuring martial arts to a more practical indirect kind of format I was very have been very excited about it I haven’t myself been able to access the certification training but you want to talk a little bit about exact or actually go into detail going to death why is the fast combatives different than going to a a karate in a dojo years and there’s nothing like this work that I’ve ever seen it’s a it’s a combination of it’s in some ways it’s a huge it’s a it’s a ceiling in Sacred Space ritual disguised as a self-defense class let me back up a little bit because I have a belief or an observation that trauma is created in a hide rental in state and pretty much all that I can imagine is created and that that state is imprinted on a body in that biochemical response in adrenal response I believe there are two ways to address or two more than two ways for the two ways that I can think of off the top of my head that might be effective in addressing trauma one is to recreate the adrenalized state in Sacred Space and give them give the body a different physical outcome which is what we doing fast wee wee is scenario-based so we will recover after a lot of work a lot of preparation we will recreate a situation that was originally very traumatic we recreate the state in the person going through it and then we allow we train them to move their body in a way that I believe rewires the limbic system if it takes on a new imprint around that it basically because of trauma is like a tape Loop like a record that skips for those of us that are old enough to remember records that keeps repeating and if it’s as it is playing in the background in our bodies and it often creates a kind of hyper-vigilance it really kind of drives the bus of Our Lives when we recreate the original trauma and give the body a different outcome it’s I believe it is changes the set point of the trauma and let’s the trauma take a backseat is still there you know but it no longer drives the bus are you familiar with Peter Levine’s work no he was a book called waking the tiger and he does the exact same kind of work only cycle more psychological song about self-defense the same thing with people have been traumatized in a sacred container and then gives the body a different physical outcome to the trauma that we do the same thing in mankind project which is a men’s initiation project group I’ve been involved with will take again a traumatic situation we we recreate a scenario and then with allowing the full physical force in the body to give a different outcome to that to that trauma I believe it changes the set point in the nervous system and allows people to integrate what happened better right right well yeah so kind of even though it’s not therapy it’s a form of therapeutic work that it’s disguised as a self-defense class and then the other way I think that one can do that his can treat trauma is again in the Sacred Space but in a very parasympathetic relax space a meditation space which would be sacred sexuality and I find you no different people gravitate towards different forms of that I also see what kinds of amazing things you can do if we are willing to step back through our our integrity work as man and create a container or space that other people which other people can heal I think it’s incredibly powerful Rite Aid instructor for 18 years he created fast because he he’s so well he left he left model mugging his do some political issues that he decided he would rather not deal with which I think was a good move on his part and he really Innovative so he took model mugging which is originally for solid days of tranny they turned it into a 4-Hour class and honestly Bill him as well as being a very dedicated Warrior genius he took the the model mugging work any concentrated concentrated it added men to the mix of men can also in this work and added weapons and really kind of brought model mugging and Matt’s work into the 21st century and said what we do is we you know I have a suit I have people I work with female instructors and then the female instructor is just as important as the male instructor because she is the the voice that she is not the healthy voice the voice of the healthy healthy feminine in the woman so when the scenario is going on she’s always behind the woman she’s always giving her information feedback guiding her when when women after they’ve taken the class when they have been assaulted and their body goes into autopilot in the statistics are incredible like the statistics of it’s like 99.5% of the people to go to the class when faced with a physical violent altercation when he’s women against rape powerful men they win they say they can hear the woman’s voice in their head going through it so yeah so we do so the female structure is just as important as the mailing is the guy you know people think it’s about the suit and it’s not really about the students about the teaching modalities in the pedagogy that is involved in rear I believe rewiring people’s limbic systems awesome yes this is a conversation ever wanted to have for a long time and I’ve I’ve actually kind of on a low budget adapted what I know of these principles certainly not using the name or selling it but just with my own no dating partners and friends you know whoever I meet I’m going to give him a can of pepper spray and explain to him how to properly deployed and how to how to hold it and when to have it ready for deployment in and if we you know hit the pads and do some some striking techniques on the pads and then I’ve just got myself a motorcycle helmet and some knee pads and actually found it with that where where are you where are you normally in the LA area Los Angeles I’m do some training would be fun it’s really good just really awesome you know that when is martial artist you know we like to think you know where NC techniques and stuff and then I’m not talented but I’ve been training a long time and like a three-year-old you know everybody know how talented they are kind of comes unglued around adrenal stress cuz we’re not used to yeah do you want to talk a little bit about that or what you want first if I’m going to say for all of the things were talking about regarding the fast combatives to me at it I’m seeing it in my mind’s eye because I’ve watched the videos and night and I’m an Enthusiast of it but to put the picture together for people who haven’t seen that do you want to come to describe what a minute or two of the of the takedowns and the we bring people into a container of salt container depends on this is just women sometimes it’s women and men and we teach them body language in queuing how to deescalate situations 90% of the fast work is about D escalating a situation so that it doesn’t go to a violent confrontation and they don’t have a lot of statistics and techniques and not but it is reasonably simple once you learn how to avoid a violent confrontation and get home safe and Alive you know once that so we do that we teach body language cueing what creditors look for in situations how to see violence situations when they’re on the way and avoid them and if there is a verbal confrontation how did the Escalade that confrontation I think the stats that bill gives is that I think seventy or eighty percent of assaults on women are done with only verbal intimidation no physical intimidation no exit by intimidation but 90% of verbal confrontation scan BD escalated or maybe higher with just words alone and it’s a matter of body language and what were putting out to the world that’s what we teach first cuz obviously you know if we can avoid violence that’s the best option I was just watching a video the other day and he said he said the speaker said violence is a last resort but when it raised our Resort is the only Resorts the only choice violence is always the last choice but when it is our choices becomes the only choice and that I believe that’s what we do in fast so once it’s clear there is absolutely no way to avoid a violent confrontation then we train peoples on large muscle groups to go into action and when were adrenalized when we’re a high adrenaline state which is basically in any confrontation we lose peripheral vision we get tunnel vision we get we lose fine motor control you know car keys and things like that and and we and we also get time to scotian and auditory exclusion we can’t hear so what that means is that we don’t have all our Resources with us what we do have continued to have is large muscle groups and so we teach people these large muscle movements big movements that are extremely effective that they don’t even have to remember because they won’t remember be able to remember the fine motor skill techniques that they will be able to remember these big muscle groups on my training partner here was about six months ago she was down and the beach here and she was attacked by a guy to come out of nowhere and punched her in the stomach or not and she’s not are the female instructor Sabrina that I work with and she she Palm healed in the face and broke his nose she kneed him in the groin she kneed him in the face and then she stomped on his head and then called the police and this is a very traumatic thing but her body did it automatically think about it you just did it you know and that’s that’s what we’re looking for so we we basically take a student and we teach them to deescalate a violent situation once it’s really obvious there’s there’s no way out of the violence if no way around it we teach them to cut loose with very very powerful techniques that basically finish the confrontation very quickly and because we do it in the hydranal and stayed the the the student it goes directly into the limbic system it becomes on autopilot goes right into muscle memory and so and we have to actually part of the training is when they’re in the adrenal stay when they’re done with the quote on quote we have them put your hands up and look around and we should call nine-one-one or go get help because they might forget to do that as a maybe other people in the situation you know so for me this is like I said it’s genius and Peyton Quinn and Bill kept are geniuses in my in my in my mind because they have that they’re not afraid of bucking the the martial arts system they just want to go for what’s true and what really works rather than going with tradition and you know people playing tag in their pajamas. I’ve been and what Bruce Lee said was you know Kung Fu is is is like a beautiful form of feather dusting when it comes time for I’m glad you I like to two point that that kind of stuff out and I think the the one of those things so I’ll try to say to people as you know those you see those Aikido Masters that have all that fine motor control and a state where most people would be very adrenalized but the thing is they are Masters and they come from a cultural tradition where you don’t just go one or two nights a week for a couple hours after work to have your hobby or these are everyday all-day training other people and not everybody makes it there an issue it’s not a they don’t I’ll make it they have to weed weed people out the students so the what you see in the movies with all this finessed technique of like a lot of time in indigenous healing Traditions or however we want to call it you know how to be sewn underground and so I I say that’s kind of reflected in how we how I approached this kind of thing even though you know today will will it will post the events publicly on Facebook and things like that there is still a ring to it that is about you’re not waiting for us to be given our our approval by by Society you know we just know that it’s important so we do this and and so like I’ve been doing this constantly one of my goals that I set out of certain point was that at least you know once a year there would be a community gathering around love sex intelligence and the rest of the time you know we haven’t online for him but very important for that hole project has been and which we’ve stepped it up in the recent months to make sure that hopefully like every month we can do something is to to say that the community around learning about how to how to harmonise our relationships how to defend our sexuality into something that is you know how uplifting our spiritual path is something that needs to be done you know with with with more support and so that’s why it’s it can’t just functioning online capacity so that’s something I’ve committed to we have we have been actually our next events is focusing squarely on sexual initiation I’m pink resented by someone named y’all Lila Espinosa is looking at how to tweeze mower practices that she learned in Peru you know have informed her own healing and and then creating her own initiation but yeah I also you know as an astrologer I work with people and often it is around relating I’ve done a little bit of like you know support for people I think what happens is you know when when you become a central figure in any given Community people will come to you when they’re in crisis and this is what has informed my my the work that I do around you know Rites of Passage is responding to crisis from a place that seeks to get to the root of what is causing the crisis which in so many cases is that there is a lack of of support and people therefore will resort to self initiation just something I’ve had to do in my own life and and see it so much the case for some of the other people and there’s another psychological shifts that occur when people an emotional shift that occur when people feel a sense that they’re being held that they are being that they can fit they can let go and have a safe space to go into those wounds and begin working on them and of course it would help if we had a little more guidance and how to do that but thought comes over over time you know we have to work from where we’re at and so that’s something that I’ve been in in the my own process of of my own work around here figuring what those things are with those tools are and Tom yeah like I said I’m not an expert but I can at least Point people in some directions I guess what we’re looking at here is that there’s an underground space very intentional underground space that is more conducive to kind of freestyling or rolling your own ceremony and just holding the light and and letting those who it call who are called to it you know it would become integrated into keep it at the gala Therrien and flowing so that you don’t have cult of personality and politics and all of the scenester Hipster things coming in and that’s always up in it and he has to be on guard against and whatnot so I see there’s that unfoldment in that development and then there’s people who are also working like stay in the social work field who are informing their peers and colleagues in those sectors with these Neo shamanic techniques or nonviolent communication or your where it’s legal and accessible and permissible you know legally again to be able to put people on amor I guess like prisons prison you Lila has a very and I’ve done some I interviewed her in the past and I’m a big fan of what she’s doing and I know she has a strong background in clinical social work and is feeding back into that sector the wisdom of of the Amazon and and Beyond and so is that something that you have I just thought I remember reading somewhere you know or talk to you at some point about how this is this is like you could be hired by the more formal above ground and sectors of social work or Community work with where you can be brought in to bring some of the stuff that would normally be or I guess it’s just that it’s a very interesting Cutting Edge of an intersection and I if I’m not mistaken that’s that you you are like sort of partially in that world 2 of of social work or is that something I understand correctly yeah I’ll I will string this conversation back and see where where I where I am placed social work as well as all the modalities of counseling and healing you know like they are all part and parcel to supporting and upholding status quo capitalist system so I’m going to like you know like you know also haven’t been in the punk scene also had a big enough impact on my my party now 13 m in terms of healing these wounds we have to look at that and I we can’t we can’t say like that are healing is going to be independent of the world that is reeling and suffering from the continuation of this system as it is and so that’s where for me like bringing capitalism into the equation is is something that’s real tricky it’s something that I feel needs to be kind of understood. You know we we can’t just rely on having sting services that we can pay for because that creates a gap you know where some people are going to have accessible abilities to to the healing and others won’t and that’s that’s not healthy for anyone and and also that it doesn’t address the root cause of why we need social workers to begin with and why we need counseling and all of that so I really like the notion of cultural healing that’s where more where I would be comfortable in any way kind of looking at myself as any kind of healer I don’t think we we can really heal individuals that’s really something that you know a person will need to and it’s not like they can be facilitated to do their own healing work but nobody can fix us we have to fix ourselves that’s that’s more I think a more powerful Paradigm to be apart of but you know I I I have worked in the realm of I focused therapy and you know I have spent quite a bit of time around the spirit plant medicines and seeing how the plant medicines have assisted and I do I do continue continuously work to increase my knowledge and wisdom around working with us plants and and that also brings us back into that hole realm of discussion around you know ancestors and working with them or perhaps that’s something we haven’t really touched upon but maybe she said it’s just that in any form of healing that we do I guess for me the important thing that I really try to bring into whatever I do connecting back with her ancestors and healing the trauma of how we were disconnected from those ancestors and how that plays out in any kind of sexual wounds or emotional wounds that we carry and so that’s something that I I I feel like the role of initiation and ritual can can really do and that’s that’s been its Province ever since people began doing patrols I think it’s to build upon the legacy of their ancestors and to draw and their their help and support cool said that yeah thank you for helping me understand the other parameters a little better and and 100% there with you I have I have been because I live in the United States where there’s different laws around no prostitution in in how that affects the healing with sexual touch and pleasure as medicine and stuff like that is a lot more yes I understand in in Canada there’s there’s a lot more interesting legal space in order to do Hands-On Sexual Healing work relative to the US where it’s completely off limits in so I because of that adapting to that reality and also is a permaculture designer myself I have to think very deeply about how to navigate this issue of for-profit healing work that kind of in most sectors is about like you said I’ll put in my own words it’s like they want to know if if the if you’re at a time of time robot that supposed to be producing a set amount to be a productive member of the of the GDP then then if you’re not functioning properly than the the goal of the mainstream social work or psychotherapeutic or psychiatric Fields they’re trying to get you back into the rat race as soon as possible and they’ll do that with drugs with talk therapy or whatever that is about avoiding through tissue which is the disconnection from urethane from a healthy holistic wild habitat you know a night as a primitivist I see that you know the solution to your Neurosis is to retry belies and Get Growing your own food again in and rebuild that fabric so you know there with you on that tension about right livelihood in and taking money for healing and what is he doing so I really like what you said and that just is going to it’s going to help me a lot looking at healing the cultural level and healing the if I’m understanding right and I’ll put a couple my own words on it but I feel like we’re trying to build the scaffolding or were trying to design the context for people to take the responsibility of a personal healing and gone to that journey and so if you if what would you say are some practical skills are tools from all of your things that you would teaching and training and a things that you discovered in your own journey to where you’re in power tools for empowerment that you suggest or are resources that you suggest people Explorer to if they’re called to do the cultural healing work weather for profit or non-profit. Some dance between the two or it and then what what are some recommendations for people who are on their own path and aren’t necessarily called to do the the cultural healing yeah I mean it’s it’s a pretty vast subject that one but I think that a few points that I could think about and talk about our that I’m going to this idea of bringing you back in the station rights and recognizing that in the absence of them what do we have you know we are we are sadly in there without initiated Elders so many of us and if there are any of Elders that hold that ability to to guide those those ones are those are worth their weight in gold you know there really is people that we should try to lift up and and give them their recognition and see you know and then in the absence of that it’s like we kind of by default Our Generations people that will have to hopefully fulfill that and reach a place where we can actually help upcoming generations to go in a way that they don’t have to completely go it alone and and figure it out on them on their own the way that so many of us have had to and so there is a movement around Rites of Passage I sit on the board if you passageways which is a network that focus is squarely on you no Rites of Passage for you coming of age from all different walks and and and modalities you know some of them are our Boys to Men oriented some of them are girls to women some of them are starting to incorporate non gender binary kind of approaches as well which is good and and this whole focus on bringing back the ancestors into looking at Rites of Passage is is starting to happen and something that I focused on and so that’s that’s a resource you know people can go to youth passageways. Oregon and look at what programs are out there and they can also think about how they can add to that list and bring in things that are needed around especially around sexuality and relationship which is often I noticed kind of a big gap in a lot of programs out there you know because they’re confined confined or constrained by the conservative values where they take place and you know what school system is you know this is one of those places lagging for that kind of thing so it’s a role that I think that many people who understand the need can step into and cultivate as career paths you know and some people are pig figuring out how they can weave their credentials says on Sexual Health Educators or sexual therapist or sexual trauma or no trauma-based therapists you know into this realm of initiation and that’s that needs to happen on a on an increased level the other I see a lot of because of what I was saying around looks really don’t how many Avenues to learn other than through you know what the books in the workshops and offerings around sexuality thoughts unfortunately are not rooted in in people’s only need two lineages generally speaking you know so the whole Tantra movement is pretty much so you know a cultural appropriator of New Age fight version of those Traditions that would have been squashed by Christianity especially and so I think there’s work to be done there and as much as possible Retreat retrieving reconstructing are reconnecting with our own ancestral Traditions which I’m sure you know had their own knowledge wisdom around how to how to raise healthy harmonious individuals with healthy sexualities from from the vantage point of how what little I do know has been has been done in indigenous cultures and without wanting to appropriate for them from them I’ll just give way of examples out of that you know in and certain cultures that are studied like the Mayan culture and I think to some degree on certain places within Creek culture there’s examples of how as societies you know that the children are raised from an early age 2 reach a point where they understand how to how to harmonize with the other sex and how to to look after each other and that’s just a very basic principle that I feel like you know that’s that’s worth kind of learning how to integrate into our family structures if we have children that were raising just to keep in mind that you know there is a need for them to learn skills around things like consent and around being responsible with with one’s sexual energies and and I needs to start before they reach that age of adolescence where they’re just harder to connect with if you haven’t built up that Foundation so that’s something that I think about will do you so if I if if we check out that the organization that you mention is it would that be good place to find and something like a more enlightened or more conscious like sexual education curriculum or guidebook do you know if people were working on something like that so if I know if you know parents who were going through the puberty of their child that they have something that’s not just this cold clinical Western and even though that sort of evolving a little bit you know with things like a sack didn’t and whatnot I see a lot but the The ancestral wisdom and you know the ceremonial Rites of Passage you know how does it how does the Modern Family say okay well you’re about to start feeling you know hormonal Energy’s how do we give you know create even if it’s just within their family or their Community yoga or whatever is something more than what’s being offered in the normal sex ed or what they’re listening in gangster rap music and watching on sitcoms obviously you know it’s enough for lack of lot of alternative options it’s one one place to look and we’re always looking for others so whenever we discover something then we will see to auditory resources and we are trying to vet those resources and those organizations to make sure that they really are you know at least there’s some some level of you know safe recommendation that we can give for those those organizations we’re not we’re not in the position to really kind of completely you know set standards but we are trying to we have a code of what we call it a cross-cultural protocol so we do look at that aspect that you have for what we’re talking about that’s you know if that’s another layer that we will hopefully get to eventually and I do know that there are people within our Network who are really strongly focused on this particularly around girls to women kind of education and and Rites of Passage and some of the Boys to Men once but I think it’s also something we need to to enhance as well oh that’s great yeah that’s that’s that’s what I wanted to hear so that I can just refer people to this ongoing and so and then the LSI is kind of its there’s a Facebook I’ve been interacting with the the Facebook group for a while so is that something you recommend people plug-in I mean that’s the goal of that is to feature blogs and generate discussions from those blogs and also to establish a resource of services as well as information and so that’s you know running on in a very limited volunteer capacity and so you know it’s something that I hope will eventually become a very powerful resource but already it’s you know it’s been feedback that I’ve received that you know even just the the group that we have on Facebook somebody posted recently. You know it’s really help them in their in their path which is nice to hear and I’ve heard that a few times and I try to curate that group in such a way where it’s like you know it’s trying to generate discussion and it’s it’s trying to be a safe space where where people can get into some of those I’m intimate revealing is of what what’s going on in their lives one of the things that kind of came out of love sex intelligence local as a connection with Tamara and the love school that they have which is a very congruence philosophy to love sex intelligence and they’re their work to try to create or with to create safe spaces for people to to share stories of what’s going on in their intimate lover sexual lives and and B witnessed in a way that is non-judgemental where they’re not being flooded with advice but more just being witnessed which is kind of connected to that whole framework for Rites of Passage itm witnessing each other and so it’s it’s trying to also look at how you know communities can succeed in their in their goals which might include you know like being more sustainable or being an alternative to the systems around us and also being a part of a more peaceful kind of culture through filling this hole that is often where things go wrong where people are are are not feeling safe to talk about these these human experiences around wounding around are our hearts and our sexuality so I’ve been part of a Practice Group here that has been circulating also to other parts of BC and I think it’s a really it’s a really powerful movement to be a part of yeah we’re getting close to an hour or so I have to take a few more minutes and I’m get a couple thoughts and feelings some responsible for 1 something that his is coming up for me that I think it’s really empowering is this like idea that wouldn’t it be nice if some of us started to think of ourselves as aspiring Elders I’ve never thought of it that way until this conversation and there’s a little spark of joy and me that that says you know puts in context the the punk rock lifestyle that I had of live fast Die Young and just you know if it’s not throwing yourself into the meat grinder of insurrectionary activism you know with this sort of Death Wish you know this martyr complex or whatever it’s like those are really unsustainable archetypes to follow and they leave a lot of people when they get to my age in about 35 like in a sort of existential crisis that will the revolution didn’t happen and I didn’t get killed I didn’t die in the gutter you know I mean what am I going to do now and it’s like well maybe it’s time to become an aspiring Elder and you know clean up your act and and then start to think about how you’re going to make it easier cuz I there’s a lot of things that I had to go through that I would seriously love to have no one else ever have to go through and if you know if we can live in that. you know that is what you’re supposed to think that I think of you say you know you can you can learn from the wisdom of Elders who have gone through and made the mistakes that you’re probably going to go through or you can just be hard-headed and learn all your lessons the hard way but I mean we’ve had to learn a lot of hard lessons in the absence of the eldership but I think if we take on that there’s a yeah me too. It seems obvious but really the way you put it his medicine for me to think you know it’s a dignified path to be an aspiring Elder and then it makes you not be so how do I can help you defeat that that that grinding pressure that oh my I’m going to lose my looks and I’m going to lose my energy and I’m going to be in the state of deprecation towards death and that’s very much the greatest fear of the western manicured Uno photoshopped airbrushed identity like you’re not really giving any hope that aging will be of any benefit in here just marginalized further and further so I thank you for that serve very much still give that time sacred eldership dignity not a light title to hold I think the true Elder wouldn’t really feel comfortable in it cuz it’s defining attributes of an elder that is really one that can help that role be the best it can be is one that is is really accountable is really present isn’t so on the move that if you can’t you know be relied upon to be there for the people that it serves now needs to ideally be in the in the fellowship of other Elders to kind of keep it in in in check in a way like we have to watch for the Cole group kind of phenomenon where people you know place a lot of weight on that person and in a way that can privilege them in certain ways and also lead to potential like power distortions and things like that you know it’s it’s only human that people will make mistakes and so having that kind of accountability of other people and also that time yeah you have people heart or a different there’s always like in every phase of life with the lifecycle there’s there’s like the maturing phases and so there’s like you know there’s a baby elder there’s enough adult Elder and then Senior Elder and so it’s just we have to learn at each stage of Life how to become the mature version of what that stage is and says just something to think about as well and it’s good to to get your feet wet early on in life so that you know we can have deep roots and and the and those are the kinds of people to like in the Tamara situation out of the black community they have a circle of Elders who are basically people who have grown with a community enough that they know the people in their community and then they serve a role as potential kind of like the Matchmaker but you know in a way where people can approach them in and ask them like you know I’m interested in this person and they can help you assess whether this is the right time or what is a good or bad idea and you know they can kind of that. Whole courtship in a way that you know really I think I wish there were more of those people around here don’t you let me relax you know learn the hard way what does that we’re just not compatible certain people in The Matrix the I mean yeah I’m not I’m not a political scientist of the Matrix but I will say that what got me peaked on the ecstatic trance dance group ritual ceremony festival thing was it really when I saw I think it was maybe the second movie or maybe it was the second or the third but there was a scene where they’re just getting down to like Juno Reactor I think was a soundtrack of a butt there is something beautiful about seeing the different the warrior culture Guided by elders and of course there’s different the archetypes playing out in Conflict split that to me was took it further than then the Star Trek Federation is a futuristic Elder guided Council guided kind of reality so that was kind of fun but yeah so that’s what came to mind when you’re at we’re talking about that be so cool if you’re early sexual oracle’s who you go to you know if we’re going to give you insights and maybe even have name your child for you or something cool like that you know be so cool but right on then will I worry about at the hours so do you have any closing touch you want to share or any other resources or should we just I’ll post the the links that you mention and I’ll definitely encourage people to stay informed and keep an eye out for your anything coming up you have any appearances or anything exciting like that coming up you want to mention I think yeah I think I covered a lot of it and I just wanted to maybe plant a seed while I have the airwaves here about something that I’d I’d eventually like to work on presenting which is around insert Intercultural relationships and also decolonizing our relationships as well and just thinking about how how we can heal some of these ancestral traumas and use that has as as a means to strengthen our relationships and also our society right on I’ll be looking forward to everything that you’re you’re expressing in the world and I hopefully yeah maybe sometime in the future we can talk about skill sets for Beyond Christian monogamy that would be a great topic so yeah how would you feel about that maybe we can sometime in the next few months follow up with something like that. Maybe by the by the time I’ll have more of a personal lived experience to a base conversation around that I think you know in terms of people who are already I don’t know how many listeners here are on a Christian spiritual path without that many but if the energy and gnosticism and sacred marriage not going to the alchemical top in the in the Gnostic tradition but I I wouldn’t make any claims to be an expert in that area but it’s definitely something to look at cool alright then we will be in touch and will follow up sometime in the future and thank you so much so be I really enjoyed it and I know it’s taking us a while to get this to get this done but I think it was perfect and I couldn’t ask for anything more so you have a wonderful day. Take care and keep for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is to see me and if you want a podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at Contra Punk. Com Thomas Day