In this episode I’m joined by the vibrant and charming Robert Ozn. He is one of my dearest bisexual allies in the modern tantra movement. We have similar visions of an inclusive non-binary pansexual tantric future where infinite diversity can be expressed and cherished within the fellowship of sex positive spiritual seekers. We learn about his outstanding career in the music and film industries, how he has explored and evolved his sexuality and relationship styles, and how he has been of service to the often still marginalized bisexual community.
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Here is his current music bio:
After a 26-year absence, L.A. based DaDa NaDa’s comeback record Je Suis Paris/I Am Orlando, a tribute to victims of terror, hit #13 on the U.K.’s Music Week Dance Chart in October 2016. Released on his own label, DaDa Nada Records and featuring his huge, impassioned vocal range, Je Suis Paris/I Am Orlando, was a staple that fall on four Gaydio (U.K.’s largest Internet radio station) programs and a huge banger in LGBTQ & straight clubs alike. “I’m humbled that with so many odds against it – no corporate money or promo machine – the track made it. I call it The Little Record That Could.”
DaDa NaDa’s follow-up, We Can Feel It, written & produced by DaDa NaDa and Steve White, with its first set of mixes by House of Virus (House), Mntna (Deep House) and Middle Eastern, Number One iTunes sensation Aman (Pop Mix), releases in September 2017. The lyrics reflect the mystical, spiritual aspects of love – a theme which DaDa NaDa’s ardently explores as he is an out bisexual, living a polyamorous lifestyle and has been a devoted student of eastern religious practices for most of his life.
Impassioned about LGBTQ rights and BiPride, he was an honored participant in the Obama Administration’s 2016 White House Briefing on Bisexuality and stands as the Chairperson of the Los Angeles Bi Task Force. In June 2017, LA Pride’s #ResistMarch featured him in a video shown to over 100,000 protesters, a first for a Bi+ leader in that event’s 45 year history.
DaDa NaDa – solo moniker for Robert Ozn – was a former Broadway actor and the vocal half of New York, 80s synth-pop duo EBN/OZN, early pioneers of the now commonplace elements of music sampling and white rap, who are widely credited as making the first commercially released and charted record ever made on a computer (a Firelight C.M.I.) in the USA, the self-written and produced Top 20 Billboard Club Chart AEIOU Sometimes Y, produced in 1982/1983 (Elektra), remixed by John Luongo. Garnering accolades from critics and fans alike, AEIOU shot him into bona fide rock stardom.
After an MTV and Top 40 Billboard Dance Chart follow up, Bag Lady, whose video starred Emmy and Tony Award winner, Imogene Coca, plus a Top 20 College Chart hit album Feeling Cavalier, EBN/OZN disbanded.
Under the alias DaDa NaDa, he first broke the Billboard Top Five in 1989; with the Hip-House hit Haunted House, remixed by Chicago based Mike Hitman Wilson. According to MTV News, it was the first House record by a white artist to ever cross over to a commercial chart in the United States. “The 80s/early 90s were a magical window when the U.S. music business’ racial barriers blurred. It was an amazing, creative time.”
The follow-up, Deep Love, remixed by the Godfather of House Frankie Knuckles & David Morales and Bad Boy Bill also a Top Five Billboard smash, turned him into a darling of the American and U.K. music press with Music Week Magazine covering him in a feature entitled The Wizard of Ozn. The Knuckles/David Morales mix featured that same sensual DaDa NaDa baritone on We Can Feel It. “Frankie had been supporting my music in the early days when I did eccentric rap/spoken word and to have him push me as a singer gave me a new level of confidence. I’ll always be grateful.”
More hits followed, but things went very wrong during his US tour that year – a shooting interrupted his show in Chicago and he started feeling a break from music was in order. That break lasted 26 years – working in the Hollywood film industry as a script analyst for major directors and film companies, as well as writing and producing films. “When I returned to music last year, I had no idea how I’d be received. I have to admit, I was trepidatious. But people – audiences, DJs, PDs – have been amazing – so welcoming, so warm and most important, they’re playing my music. I feel like I’m coming home.”
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved welcome to Township Punk podcast episode number 122 I’m being joined by Robert Rosen he is a top 5 billboard recording artist produced screenwriter Broadway actor tantric initiate and bisexual activist that amongst many other lovely and beautiful things that we met now it’s been almost that’s a couple years through the LA Tantra Meetup community and really hit it off on wanting to share a vision and kind of construct a Visionary and an archetype of a Vuitton trick Rockstar or a tantric Stage production stage show that could actually transmit the the shaktipat energy to the masses or to the the secrets which in the message and let there actually be a more intentionality and more education in and conducting of the sacred energy True Modern electronics and other forms of music and that’s just sort of been something that we cross paths in our in our music things and that’s just the tip of the iceberg cuz you’re going to really enjoy hearing his background he’s got some amazing really deeply profound accomplishments and Anna level of authority and experiences just mind-blowing so I am deeply honored to have a separate entity to have this this talk and then looking forward to it for a while so with that said Robert thank you so much for joining I can’t wait to take it away thanks so much for that intro been where do I I send you the check for that grade hype up job I’ll take Bitcoin Bitcoin pretty soon it’s the adult crypto-currency that you’re doing the show it’s funny I got interested in Chandra so many years ago when I was around 18 19 years old and I had such a difficult time trying to get any information that’s before the internet even existed in I am you know what go to spiritual bookstores and if I got lucky I’d find you know a translation of something like an ancient Tibetan or Hindu text but you know course I was just looking for the good pictures and keeping dammit and you know but over the years slowly slowly I started being able to find some kind of training and now it’s amazing to me to see how how much it’s you know begun to infiltrate infiltrate you know our Western society and you know I’m pleased to see it because it’s it gives people a different point of view on sharing energy and love between two human beings and and sex and you know I think the study of Tantra brings a lot of value to people’s lives so I’m I’m happy to see it’s beginning to Blossom I was in the Arts from the time I was a little little boy I I sang in the New York City Metropolitan Opera when I was 10 years old 11 years old I was in it for two seasons I sang I’m in the last opera of the old met which was I think it was in the 40s on the west side of New York City and and then I was in the first opera first performance of the new met in Lincoln Center my father told me my career was downhill from there text Dad but it was a pretty cool experience as a kid to do something like that you know first of all you got out of school to go to rehearsal so that was amazing when you were in junior high school but I I really just knew who I was and what I wanted to do and that was sing and I went I want to Music Conservatory Indiana University School of Music gets its world-renowned for its vocal program and I stayed there for two years and then I got a job singing for The Tonight Show band on the road so I left the conservatory when I was when I was 19 and Job Lots to my parents Chagrin but I was very happy I was working with Incredible Jazz musicians you know snooky young Doc Severinsen Lucha back in Buddy Rich Ed Shaughnessy these are people that had played with everybody from you know count bass D to Louis Armstrong much older guy and The Tonight Show job for jazz musicians was a prized job because they could they could record during the day and have a normal life so the competition was a huge for that gig so they would get the best jazz musicians really in North America I was such an honor to work with those guys it’s kind of an all of them really at my young age and so I told them for a while and then I got a job in the musical theater working with a guy named Zero mostel I don’t know if some of your listeners know who he is if any of your listeners are movie freaks they might know a movie called The Producers Gene Wilder and zero mostel it’s a hilarious movie and jaw so I did a Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum was 0 and again I was 19 and that was an experience of a lifetime working with someone that old and that experience and that much of a genius on stage was completely outrageous if an audience member was late he would literally shout out as loud as he could stop the show stop the show Turn On The Lights someone’s late Excuse Me Miss you do realize you’re late then you should start asking the audience what time it was and I mean this was Theodore this was not a stand-up thing you know these poor people would be so embarrassed it was it was a real learning experience and I did that for oh I don’t know maybe five months on the road and John and then I got my first Broadway show and you know that was a dream come true for me to have a part in a Broadway show and that’s when I first had an experience of trying to lead an alternative lifestyle I had a girlfriend at the time and then I met a woman in the show I was so very young I was 20 21 and time she was in an open relationship she was older than me and I thought that sounded very logical to me and I wanted to explore that so this was back in the day before the book The ethical slut was written before polyamory was a word it was just cold open relationships back then no one knew what they were doing you know we all hurt each other’s feelings terribly we didn’t have a clue how to structure anything so it was kind of a disaster really but I lived that life stuff for pretty long time add you know in my naivete and and lack of knowledge I tried to make it work and I really couldn’t so I gave up on that and also around the same time I realized I was bisexual and this was before AIDS so in the era of David Bowie and Mick Jagger and glam-rock being bisexual was very cool it was like oh I don’t know nowadays like going to the right coffee shop it was considered a bold thing to be into Explorer and there wasn’t really a stigma attached to it at least not in you know the big International cities like Paris or London or New York and I lived in New York and you know I was in the entertainment business so it was you know very well accepted my LED I let a bisexual lifestyle really all the way up until about the mid-80s and I never was romantically attracted to men just sexually but I was both romantically and sexually attracted to women switch didn’t really confuse me maybe a bit but I was pretty cool with it I didn’t really think much about I just accepted it as a fact but then aged came along and overnight the world changed it was no longer cool to be bisexual it was decidedly uncool to be a male bisexual people right away assumed that you might be carrying an illness and I won’t say I went in the closet but it was not information I volunteered if I was asked you know I would State my identity but I definitely down plated and I tried monogamy again and I was in a marriage that lasted quite a long time about 10 years and I was monogamous in my marriage I I didn’t cheat I’m in my marriage end you know when it fell apart of course things changed but that was I thought me being honorable you know being a man that’s stuck to his word and I look back on it and go I wonder if we would have perhaps broken up sooner in a more healthy fashion or perhaps even had a healthy relationship if we not been monogamous because we were so driven to codependents that and it wasn’t it wasn’t a healthy situation Angela I don’t think the monogamy really helped anyting frankly beautiful and I passed the test if you will if it if the test is called can you keep your word but but it didn’t support it didn’t support a healthy rapport which is what it’s what it’s meant to do you know so in the mid-eighties I I transitioned out of the musical theater I I was in another Broadway show I was in another very big chore and Karla DeVito if people remember meatloaf love on the dashboard she was the singer for meatloaf you know that you’re does incredible duets with him and so I was in Pirates of Penzance with her she’s an amazing talent that that woman can sing anything really Phantom that was great fun for me because I was classically trained but from the time I became a professional in my chains I never got to use my classical training I was either singing musical theater or pop music or jazz music and I finally got to some classical and I I loved it was great fun our producer was a man an Infamous man in the American Theater World cold John Kenley who was a rumored hermaphrodite and Mr Kenley as he was called you had to call him mr. Kenley dress like a man in the summer in a woman in the winter and lived in a middle-sized city in Ohio it might have been Akron or Dayton or someplace like that and this man lived like this through the 60 seventies eighties nineties I mean he was a character and a bold courageous human being tube to do that back then and get away with it and remarkable theater producer and I was a punk rocker in a classical in a Gilbert and Sullivan light opera he knew who Karla DeVito was and I replace Robby Benson who got a movie so he didn’t know who I was I was hired at the last minute and I walked in the door and when he saw me in all this punk rock stuff with earrings at eyeshadow and you know dyed white blond hair and you know I look pretty tough he said oh my God who’s that they said Willits it’s your Henry what that that that punk yes mr. Kenley yes that that waiting to hear him sing he’s he’s really quite good oh my God thank God he’ll be in costume thank God he’ll be in a costume we can’t have already in Sissy That the varsi hersel eye Saginaw area and I hear this voice in the back of the house how can you sing like that and look like that well it was just he just couldn’t get his head around it you know that I look like Johnny Rotten and I say what is Sid Vicious did my way and he sounded like a real pet rainbow coo his right exactly really he just he could not get his head around it at all it was pretty hilarious end so let’s see where am I so I eventually made a transition into the music business because I was I was not happy in the musical theater the musical theater back then was in a in a rough place it a lot of the traditional musical theater writers were trying to write 1950s early 1960s style shows and they really did not interest me I mean Oklahoma and Guys and Dolls I mean those things are chestnuts they’re amazing their masterpieces but you know they were written in the 1950s or 40s and I just felt like in the 80s why wasn’t somebody trying to write you know new sounds and you know there were a few I’m not saying there were none there were there were a few but they were very few and far between and the producers and the critics were very scared to pop music the critics turn their nose up at top music they were very snobbish about it but ultimately completely out of touch with what was happening culturally in America anthem so I went into the music business because I wanted to you know stand or fall on my own creation you know not be just an actor interpreting somebody else’s work and also subject to a director’s vision cuz if the director’s Vision was fantastic well then you were in luck you know you got to ride the wave of someone’s phenomenal Vision but if his vision was not up to par then you were in deep shit because you had to reflect is Concepts his interpretation of characters is a picture of what you should do and if it didn’t work will then you were really screwed and I didn’t both you know I’d been in I’d work with terrific people and horrid people and I just said you know I’d rather take the risk myself because the whole thing’s a crapshoot anyway so I started writing my own music and you’ll get a kick out of this the first song I ever wrote and recorded was a hip-hop while it was a rap song it was before Hip Hop was hip hop it was just gold rap music then and was probably the only white person I knew that was trying to shop a rap tape to record companies in 1980 and you know I think there’s a cassette tape somewhere I’ve got to find that I got to find that it would look at me like I was out of my fucking my they would go it’s a what it’s really good and it really was good it was kind of a funny rap song and end the record company’s first of all back then they didn’t get rap at all they all thought it was what’s called novelty music meaning something eccentric and offbeat that ended their view isn’t quote real music and they thought it would be short-lived in a little did they know and this was even R&B Departments of the major labels not you know not just the rock Apartments I’m so the only people putting out rap music in the early 80s and even into the mid-eighties was Indie labels hip-hop labels and of course they had the last laugh on everybody because you know they went Mega platinum and then the majors had to come around but nobody wanted to hear rap records for me so I meant a computer freak named Ned leaving it would build his first recording studio when he was 14 he was you know nowadays A Nerd back then if the word existed it wasn’t complimentary it was derogatory and you know the world’s changed which is great and he was a total Tech geek and a brilliant musician so by the time he was 19 or 20 he had a functioning for rent professional recording studio in New York you know the Talking Heads work there The Ramones work there you know he he really had great Studio chops can I have this crazy rap record and a mutual friend introduced us because Ned was working in music that sounded kind of like Kraftwerk and the only people that even did anything remotely like that in the United States where New York hip-hop people I’m sampling stuff and yes this is before sampling it’s when it first started anti why does a DJ named Africa Bambaataa who likes Kraftwerk and he’s kind of credited with bringing Kraftwerk to the hip-hop world and he he did a record called Planet Rock which had a very German techno influence to it was a huge huge RAF record all around the world and so I played in my rap record and he played me this track and I went I really like that and I just started ripping this story in a kind of rap spoken word staying over the track and he really liked it and it became our first record and it was cold aeiou sometimes y and it was the story was a true story about me meeting a Swedish girl having a cappuccino and Lincoln Center and I started talking to her and we became lovers and it was a story of how we met and what happened that day and and the theme of it was about how difficult real communication is with people how it’s so impossible to really communicate with anybody and it wind up being a huge MTV record and it was signed by a major label so at that moment I was considered a rap artist even though as the years went by nowadays you might not call that a rap record you might call it more spoken word record but back then it was considered a rap record and Hip-Hop didn’t come into being for another couple years and that was an amazing experience of course you know being a rockstar like who who could ever imagine that actually happens to anybody it was such a freak out man it happened so fast then we didn’t even have a name for the ACT we made this crazy record when we played it for record Executives they either fucking hated it I mean hate it but they would turn it off in the middle they would just say I mean we’ve did we hear things like I don’t get it literally just like I don’t get it or not for me or they would say oh my God that’s amazing but my boss won’t like it like they get too scared cuz it was so left field but this well-known impresario named oh God is named went right out of my head for a second it’ll come back anyway this well-known Liv promoter New York and see me in a small movie and said to me hey if you ever need any help in the music business I will help you I think you’re great and I was like oh I was like wow that’s so nice I might take you up on it one day so perhaps it was two years later I called him and said remember me and God bless this guy he did and he said okay I’ll help you and he gave it to somebody who gave it to the new chairman of the board of election records and dumb we get a phone call the guy thinks you your records gray and we were so excited really you say he’s got a reputation for liking crazy left-field shit he’s the guy that signed Devo wow so he’s going to like your stuff and I was like okay so we go in there with this lawyer we barely knew and he was representing us this guy we walk in and it was right out of a movie he’s standing on his desk with our record Turned Up full blast up to 10 and he’s dancing to it I love this fucking record man oh my God man that you know and he’s like singing along with the car is and he’s doing all these corny dance moves and I mean we’re looking at each other is he on something is he not on something like what are we supposed to do and the lawyer smirks it us would like the cat that ate the canary kind of smirk I realized that mine the lawyers letting us know you have a deal I mean I I just saw into space you know I could see it and never looked at me and smiled was like holy shit that did this is going to be a record deal meeting and he keeps the thing finishes tells us to sit down and he’s got all this really expensive art around the office he I found out later he was a very well-known art collector and I mean sculptures Pottery you know oil paintings it was really quite something and he starts to tell us how much he likes it and he asked us our plans and in the room he gives us a record deal then he gives us a video deal and at this point the lawyers like what okay I mean he lost his guys of being you know the cynical hard as he started getting shocked well and just a CEO’s name is Bob krasnoo he says to the lawyer and I’m going to give him an album deal and the lawyer exclaims on only one song like that Eagles on only one song and His Hands fly up in the air and he knocks over this really told Vaz that was on a pedestal must have been a four foot high bars he knocks it over the floor and it shatters and Bob Kraft no space goes white I’m the lawyer goes oh oh oh don’t worry Bob I’ll pay for that and cries and goes I don’t think so it goes no no no I’m good for my word I’ll pay for it he goes he goes what what is it what is it he goes That’s a Ming Dynasty vase that’s probably worth 165 Grand to go White Knuckles and Eliza flowers a Believer because if you’re going to it’s going to come out of your dog and he paid for by the deal by the the revenue generated from the boy you learn fast then it is the music business at least the old music business so then we go back to the guy’s office and he goes you need a name cuz we don’t even have a name and his name was Ned leben and my name was Robert Rosen and Eagles I don’t know the lawyers like I don’t know we’ve been Rosen and we go now we can’t do that man that sounds like a podiatrist office you know enough she goes yeah yeah I guess you’re right and we sit there we got listen list of shit we meet with them every time I’m even the Muse like bugging us about the name then finally one day Ned goes why don’t we drop the first letters of our last names solymon Rosen becomes even ozan and then will spell it weird and take out some vowels I went I don’t know that’s kind of weird. Come on man, he won’t give up on you and then now cut to like two weeks later and the lawyers got the contracts and there’s the special document in the contract in record deals where you have to guarantee you are the artist name and you’re signing the artist name distribution rights to the record label for. Of time but the thing is blank cuz there’s no name in The Wire goes guys you got to give me a name sonesse I can come on come on even I wasn’t even knows I go okay alright alright even I wasn’t even though I wasn’t so leben Roseanne l i b e n r o s e n became ebn Eben ozen ozn and that’s what it was so put out the record and the video was truly a hit it was just one of those cool things it just kind of made it on its own you know and so we started getting all these press interviews ever on MTV one day and they’re interviewing us and they do kind of like what we’re doing here you know they they talk to you for quite a long time but because of their format they only pull out little 10-second snip and then maybe you know they might pull out to 10 seconds 330 seconds and then maybe they’d have like a couple of 3-minute sequences and they play them at different times during the day you know and so they said where did Eva Nelson come from and I told him the truth I said well it’s really leaving Rosen but we were scared it would sound like a podiatrist office and the woman who was the MTV interview her name was Martha Quinn she crap cracked up on camera she started laughing so of course during all the interview were talking about all the technical stuff for the music all the Soulful stuff for the lyrics all our intellectual Concepts about flawed communication and human interaction what did they use over and over that use me being a wise guy going it sounds like a podiatrist so the chairman of the board season MTV and he gets Furious and he sends out a memo to the entire record company including us and the lawyer and says from now on no fresh or any publicly distributed material will refer to even those in as Ned leaving in Robert Rosen it is even has him and he calls us up if he goes what’s wrong with you guys you guys are sex symbols you can make jokes like that you’re going to ruin your image okay man so we could only be called that so the name stuck so we were even us from then on and I that reminds me of the Bible that talk about change the name to Ritchie Valens yes yes that’s right yeah so we turned out we didn’t realize it at the time but we had made the first record ever made on a computer in the United States that was released commercially we knew we were cutting edge but we didn’t realize we were that far ahead of everybody else it was made on a fairlight CMI which was a music sampler and they were incredibly expensive machines you know they ran in the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars and only may be just a few years later roll and started putting out samples that were like five thousand bucks and that changed everything and then sampling became very popular but up until then it wasn’t popular cuz it was too expensive and too complicated but we used to make our own samples and it wasn’t something you know there was no such thing as a library now you buy it you can buy a library of sounds so we would literally if we wanted a percussion sound we might take go into the kitchen and take two pans and bang them together and then he Q it differently and stuff like that you know or if you wanted to sound like a human voice I stand in front of a microphone ago and you know weed mess with the Saturn make it sound Erie or Bazaar and it was incredibly time-consuming you know it would take you could take hours to make one sound especially drum sounds they were very hard to do you had a sample them from real drums and you know you had to have a great engineer who knew how to make the drum and you know but there was a revolution after that when people started having sample libraries but you know we really were ahead of the pack and the other people who had done it probably the first in the world was Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush gave me to record on a computer a year before us and England I can’t remember the name of it but it was also one of fairlight CMI Peter Deb was Peter Gabriel’s favorite instrument to work with and so we you know we really Pioneer Dwight rap and and computer sampling I don’t know really early time and I was trying to be it was very strange been I live this crazy like Rock and Roll Lifestyle but I had this deep desire to be quote normal because I had such a fucked up childhood so I really wanted to have a you know monogamous relationship in I would say Do The Artsy Bohemian version of the white picket fence and I had this image in my head that I’d be happy doing that and you know I really did try to do that and it was it it just was very unhappy time for me cuz it was not something I was I was going to say wasn’t cut out for I don’t know that that’s the way to say it I was a square peg in a round hole you know and I didn’t realize that in order to be true to myself I had to find a relationship structure that fit me I kept doing it backwards and trying to fit me into a relationship structure and I think that’s the biggest mistake people make in relationships and in love and sex that we’re all brainwashed we’re all brought up a certain way to believe relation does a correct way to do it is the right way to do it and the right way is pretty much it’s pretty much one way and the only difference might be extremely conservative fundamentalist religions have one picture of this right way and more Progressive liberal open-minded people have a different version of it but it’s still the right way it’s still a traditional monogamous way and dumb I think for tens hundreds of millions of people they I’ve never even understood that there’s actually an alternative option to that an end that alternative option use whatever works for you and it’s whatever works for your partner or Partners that’s the relationship that works and trying to force yourselves into a structure that’s untenable for you emotionally personality-wise logistically you know a myriad of ways is a very sad thing and you know horrible divorce rates and unhappy marriages and so I got divorced and I I had put out my my synth-pop Duo even knows and broke up I kept working in dance music cuz I love dance music and I started making house music in the late 80s and I was what I guess you might call the second wave of house if the first way was in the mid-eighties real real Underground anybody was listening Who would know Frankie Knuckles and people like that or Dwayne in the mix Mike Hickman Wilson Bad Boy Bill. These are all guys from like Chicago and Detroit they were kind of the Vanguard of this whole thing and I got into it in the late 80s but ice but I approached it not from a as a DJ which is what these guys were I approached it like a songwriter so I was writing house songs that became house records and come can we be so what cause can we get zoom in a bit on the the even odds and break up what could have brought down such a meteoric rise I mean I know what happens actually it’s kind of quite common that successful put too much strain on interpersonal relationships but I’m just curious if there’s a you know any notes about that teaching points I think what caused it was the terrible pressures put on people that are very young with big success so fast and the pressure is caused by huge corporate machines I mean these are international corporate machines that you’re dealing with and I am not blaming them at all I really mean that I don’t it’s just it goes hand-in-hand I mean you’re a product you’re a product at the machine needs to be fed add job I think it was something I certainly didn’t understand I think even understood it better than I did but I didn’t quite get I didn’t get the macro of what was going on and so I think the pressure got to us we had personal falling outs and unfortunately we had representation who wasn’t able to kind of referee us and keep us together and that’s really what good managers need to do when bands go through that because all bands go through it it’s a given and experienced managers know how to keep the band together you know and we didn’t have that well and I think both even and I years later realize that it didn’t have to I didn’t have to break up and you know he died very young which is very sad and if he’d not passed away so young I think even and I would have worked together again and dumb it was a great creative collaboration I I truly miss it it was really magical well well thanks for you have putting in that extra bitter I feel like a did life coaches are a big thing but 6s therapist it sounds like are equally is not more important to sustain success once it comes as I think too that I think there’s certain pitfalls that are unique to Young recording artist there’s just some really predictable potholes that you’re going to step in and you know hopefully the people that are around them can guide them around the potholes but you know the tabloids make a lot of money watching them fall into the bottom hose Ray you know yeah that’s too bad do you care if Justin I’m not to take it too far track right now but I’m just curious what is a lot of what you’re saying that’s good for civil potholes at that have a lot of it has to do with aspects of carving up the ownership rights and just the equitability of the resources coming in and who’s the front person and who’s sort of in the shadows and the song writing credits and stuff the Eagles absolutely all of the above I mean some of that we were able to work out ourselves anyway but that that’s the kind of thing that can happen in bands songwriting credits who gets paid what who’s who’s in the spotlight who’s not all that you know and some bands survive that that process and some bands don’t you know you look at a band like U2 and they’ve been around for you know decades now and I’m sure they went through it but they have somehow survived it and I think one of the ways you two survived it as they present themselves like a band you know Banos the front man but they the way they’re promoted is it’s always promoted like a band and and I think that’s imperative you know same thing with the Rolling Stones you know it’s always promoted like a band not Mick Jagger you know or Keith Richards cool so yeah yeah yeah if you want to keep going along a timeline this is riveting and I’m really enjoying just makes me feel nostalgic for the 80s I started having a success as a house artist and the mid-eighties in New York was a time of where the race is all mixed together in the studios it was a very magical time in London and New York there was something called new music or art art rock new music they called it nowadays the class of I even I was in his new wave and that’s not accurate we were Post New Wave but this new music staff was very dance-oriented for the most part end up it was a lot of a lot of integration of different styles of stuff going on at the same time and the music business used to go through that it would it would get very categorized and the categories would become very hard with really hard boundaries and then it would become kind of corporate music and it would get played to death and finally the audiences would get so sick of it the whole thing would collapse and something new would have to break through and job so this was a time when something new was breaking through and it was it was just it was exciting you know to be in to be in a room where you know you might have you know a black guy playing keyboards in a Jewish guy playing the bass and you know a Latino guy playing a guitar you know if it all the stereotypes would just be an all moved around but by the late 80s that kind of went away again except for Prince end up I was working in house music which was really very much at that time ghetto underground ghetto thing you know in Chicago Detroit and then later New York so the guys I was working with they told me not even to put my picture on my records They said don’t do that people will resent it and dumb so I didn’t and I was working in a style called hip house which was rap verses and Son courses and I did that for a while and sound really good success doing it and I and I loved the style and and I charted and charted very high on the Billboard charts in the United States and I had my own little label and I couldn’t get a record deal I couldn’t get arrested and cuz they didn’t understand what I was doing you know they look at me like huh rap versus some courses your white like what the fuck did they just couldn’t get it and so I put it out on my own record label and strangely enough I was ashamed that I had a record label no one had a record label back then you know that was before the big hip hop entrepreneurs like P Diddy and Jay-Z in those guys you know dr. Dre so I kept it a secret and dumb I didn’t tell anybody it’s got home though it was considered which is the showing your class or something to to be independent or you would have figured if people knew I own the label they thought I was a failure so that was before it wasn’t fashionable or is it wasn’t fashionable but it was also I think that showed a function of my own you know self-doubt and shame instead of being proud of it and embracing it you know I kept it in my closet and dumb probably only five people in the whole world knew that I own that label and up I exported to Europe and I had a pretty decent export business and I charted in the UK also add you know when I got I was kind of a darling of the UK music press endom you know I was having a final time and I really was feeling creatively very happy and I went on tour and then when I was in Chicago someone got shot in one of my shows it really had a big effect on me I was on stage and I thought I was bombing the house started emptying out and it’s a pretty weird feeling and I maybe got a thousand people in a club or 1200 people and your singing and it starts to empty out and you go oh my God I suck I’m bombing they’re leaving the room and I’m looking at my dancers and my dancers are frowning like what’s going on in when the show is over in that the lights went off this big cop grabs many pills me backstage and I go what’s going on what’s going on and he goes somebody was shot during your show. Oh my God is he alright because I don’t know and I said why did you let me keep singing and it goes always thought it would be good like to help people not panic and get out okay Isis flying so somebody shooting a gun in the room but you left me standing on stage I really appreciate that end so that must have been I don’t know member 91 maybe 90 something like that and so that was the last time I ever performed live endom wow yeah and Deb so then I started becoming a I wanted to I just got burned out I I just went by you know I don’t want to do this anymore and in retrospect what I needed was a break I should have just taken a break for 6 months or a year and just you know just giving myself some distance but what I did was I left I left the music business completely I stop writing music I stop singing and I wanted to do something what I said something adults would do I said I I can’t be a teenager my whole life I got to do something an adult would do so what did I do I went into the movie business haha for adults it’s just the music business or the middle school kids in the movie business people at the high school children trust me so I was creatively very interesting at first because I got trained on the literary side of the movie business which I found quite fascinating and I was very compelled and engaged and really really enjoyed analyzing scripts and I got a job working for Oliver Stone as a script analyst and I work for him for free for the first I don’t remember how many months it was quite a while and I was what was what’s called in Hollywood a script reader I would read submissions and then I would write him up and recommend whether they should be purchased or not and then I’m course I wasn’t the be-all end-all decision you know somebody above me then would read it you know I can and are then huh for film scripts that that’s a good way to put it that that’s exactly what it was right Anthem and I really liked it and I did it for a few years and I read a lot of scripts and I read a lot of books and I really learned what makes a good script and I also learned the the unfortunate truth of why something selling some things don’t and it doesn’t always have to do with the quality of the writing in the quality of the script many times it has to do with marketing decisions so you know sometimes a very fine script was passed over and a mediocre script was purchased but it’s because they felt they could Market it that’s just the way it is because it is a business ultimately anthem it was a great education I worked for him I work for a big agency called CAA creative artists I read for them for a couple years I work for James Cameron’s company Sydney Pollux company and then I work from Miramax for a long time and they weren’t Art House really really wonderful Art House film company I work there in their Heyday in the you know early mid 90s and that was a great experience I learned a lot and I read a lot of material and I also get something called notes where you give your opinion for whatever that’s worth on how to make something better and John eventually I just started writing my own scripts and I work with this guy named Colin green who now is a vice president at Sony films and we you don’t rub material that’s all you know we sold something to Paramount which should not get made it was a big budget science fiction movie and then we sold a spec script about a human rights investigation it was called Gods witness but they changed it to eyewitness and it had Jeff Daniels James Spader and Portia de Rossi in it endom I sold another script to the Syfy channel was a science fiction movie and what else did I do oh I worked on a documentary that was very dear to my heart it wasn’t my idea I was just like a Hired Gun I help produce it but it was about a a British war hero in World War II who were the time of the documentary was 96 years old and he came out as bisexual when he was 85 85 amazing he wrote an autobiography and it came out in his autobiography was a fascinating guy his father was the was the lawyer to King George during World War II he had this fantasy childhood you know being brought up around the Royal Family he was a you know a true aristocrat and that he meant he was a foreign correspondent when he was a young man he met Hitler twice he was a Nazi sympathizer in his youth as a lot of the British aristocracy wear in the 30s and then on a tour of a concentration camp which he was told was a labor camp and a rehabilitation camp this is before the war has started officer giving them the tour accidentally opened the wrong door and they saw a man being tortured and at that moment he realized that you know he been believing lies about Hitler that he just kind of drink the Kool-Aid as at work and he realize that the opposition has been telling the truth the whole time and he became very much an anti-nazi and he joined the army and then was in a very famous suicide mission call the Battle of Saint nazaire where they try to blow up a huge navy dock Adam the guy little fascinating life he met Churchill multiple times you met the king multiple times he met FDR he met Stalin then he became a foreign correspondent for the London times after the war and covered all the Civil Wars going on around Europe after World War II just fascinating man and you know of course I was interested in him not just for his military history and his literary history but also the fact that he was bisexual I thought that was so interesting anthem you know he had already had a rough time with it he really did it was you know in the upper classes it was accepted kind of with a wink like no one would out-and-out be prejudiced against you it was very much kind of a don’t ask don’t tell mentality and it was the same thing in the Army to you just didn’t talk about it but no one would say anything and then later on you got married to a woman stayed married to her till she died solar I did that thing for a long time I stayed in the film industry for a long time I was married again my wife had two children from prior marriage I became a dad which I loved and in that instance monogamy did support the marriage it was something that fit it worked while the marriage was working Anthem and then the marriage started falling apart and dab I don’t know if we had been non-monogamous how that would have affected it I don’t know that it would have changed anything the the parameters just were no good anymore but after that marriage and then relationship I had with a woman for about a year-and-a-half after that I just went I can’t keep putting this square peg into a round hole I just can’t do this anymore and job I decided that I was going to lead a polyamorous lifestyle Android I’m very happy I did Android when I realized it being bisexual and that was unusual I didn’t know it was unusual because I didn’t have any touch with the community you know you are still holy solo I was totally solo like many bisexuals are which is something I learned later especially men especially men bad I decided that I was going to try to help people because so many bisexual men are suffering millions and millions and millions and they suffer in silence because there is no community of any kind really to reach out to lesbians and gays have a very strong community in the United States would bisexuals have had a very elusive Community for years very very difficult to find and it’s very small and very disorganized and it’s only been in the past few years that it’s gotten bigger and stronger and more what’s the word higher-profile what is stereotype about how you’re not you’re not enough of one or the other orientation so you’re considered a traitor to both that’s right that’s right and the older you are the more you’ve confronted that like the really young Millennials like the 22 year old kids in the 17 year old kids they don’t have that at least the ones I’ve talked to you know they don’t they don’t seem to have that problem thrown at them or if they do they have a lot of support around them to tell them that it’s not so at least in the big cities let me qualify that but my generation if you said you were by they went out he’s really gay they just can’t admit it or he was in transition from being hetero to homo and somehow he got stuck in the transition and he never completed it is neurotic is fucked up because as we all know there’s no such thing as bisexuality that was a big thing there’s no such and there’s even major you know dating and sex advice people in the current Electronic media who still talk like that which I find very disconcerting and very upsetting and it’s very damaging to people’s mental health I mean we’re talking about something that people commit suicide over I mean sexual identity is a serious serious business if you’re if you accept it and you take it light will it it’s not a serious business for you at all God bless you you’re very lucky human being but there are many people who don’t accept it or are confused by it or are bullied by it or criticized or literally lose their entire family over it you know it’s just it’s it’s it’s a volatile volatile subject and for people to criticize bisexuals for identifying that way is so wrong and it borders on criminal you know and I feel very strongly about and that’s why I became an activist because I really wanted to fight that so but thank you so much for that yet do you want it we’ve we can go another few minutes now and then I think this is just the beginning of its going to have to be a series of really breaking all this stuff down because now it gets interesting how you been able to I mean it’s been interesting it’s such a journey man I just had no idea how deeply you’ve been able to percolate into all these different facets of the industry is in and now I’m just super excited to see how you were leveraging your your passions with me on the influence that you have in the you-know-what what the hell the flavor of your activism has coming up with art and all that stuff so if that would be a whole nother yeah whole nother show so but do you want to just start that just kind of introduced that aspect and then we’ll do a cliffhanger 2016 you know there was a lot of terrorism going on in Paris where the year before they had killed the cartoonists and writers at Charlie hebdo magazine they killed you know the audience at the bataclan Rock Club you know people at the soccer stadium and then of course Orlando happened and I was so upset that I made my first record in 26 years and it was fashioned after the viral catchphrase just sweep how he I am Paris and I am Orlando and I made a record and it just had a life of its own and it became a dancing in England it went to number 13 on the British dance charts and I got to combine my you know LGBT activism with my music and Men I couldn’t think of a better thing to happen you know it was great it was a very powerful time for me and so now I’m making another record and I’m hoping that I can make a a video that references Tantra in the video that goes along with the record that’s what I’m looking to do at least all right let’s talk about that what do you have in mind what’s your your vision so far the song has a lot of mysterious spiritual sexual references in it and so visually I see you know couples in you know making love via Tantra as a great visual representation for the song and that’s something I’d like to do and I don’t have any more of a concept with it then that more than that yet that’s a good place to start thanks thanks man so what are you do you have for is the track are the tracks or the main track bets what’s the the the roll out with that the lunch what is the name of the song it’s done I’ve got a variety of mixes done the very last mixes will probably be finished tomorrow it’s called we can feel it and I’ll probably start pre-release publicity in a week to 10 days I’ll start the pr and then I’ll release it in England in about 6 weeks I think now I’m so stoked so then this is kind of a teaser will definitely have to at the time of it being publicly available regroup and we can we’ll have more time we can go into more of these juicy topics and have something to share with the audience it so I can spare a fresh cut all right thanks man I appreciate your time and I hope your audience some enjoy it yeah this is exciting so I mean whenever we we met up and and talked and relief Vibe I mean the the need for at least within the the modern Neo Tantra and movement for there to be more role-modeling of pansexual and non heteronormative in non non dual non-binary configurations and I’ve actually found a good guy in the UK who we did interview with while a while back and he’s kind of holding it down for the gay Tantra and bisexual Tantra movement really holding space for that training in that world and really bringing the teachings to really find a home in in just break break out of that stereotype where that that limited limiting belief system that there has to be a biological male and female partner in a Partners II to create the alchemical union but there’s actually the potential to mix the energies and resolve duality in to become one really by the intention of running the energies is very well I guess you could say well ultimately we be good as such as it is such an androgynous experience to be altered to be shifting between receiving and giving an alternating taking turns and basically volleying the orgasmic energy you really lose sense of all personality ego and go so deep into the body that you actually become part of the cosmic body which is non gender or so so ineffable that you can’t really like identify it by what is genitals look like so that’s the point I mean the ultimate unity of of love to get to that point so you know it’s a yeah yeah I’m excited to be a part of anything work with anyone who is bringing more of this beautiful Consciousness and Technology to people who would who have a 5 talk to people after me to say why I didn’t think I could do that cuz I’m gay and I need a woman or a conversation but that’s kind of what yeah we’re like to get specially now that if you’re going to be doing this country themed video then next time we will talk when you’re ready to launch that we can really talk more about them is your experiences sexually and and spiritually in and all of that good stuff so the spirituality of Tantra because many people don’t know that that’s what it’s about they think of Tantra as a how to have better sex education you know or how to have better sex tool or procedure not that it is not that yes of course that exists in it you know yes there’s different positions techniques and things like that that’s absolutely there but that’s not the ultimate goal of Tantra and the transmutation of sexual energy into love into spiritual energy into the experience of a union between two people which then heightens the experience so you get to feel a union with the Divine is the ultimate experience of Tantra and I’m so glad you referenced it because that’s so absent from the North American Tantra conversation you know so and I know you been cuz you and I have talked about it so many times I know how much it’s a part of your Consciousness you know and I’m so glad it is part of your Consciousness cuz you know you’re putting it out there to people cuz there’s a lot of charlatans out there who don’t talk about it so good on you thank you yeah I consider myself a mama’s boy got his worshiper of kind of a spiritual mama’s boy so she’s got me on a strict orders to be of service and so all right once you get there far out enough and you make the contracts with with Divine forces then it’s it’s a I guess I would say it’s a beautiful responsibility to hold a higher vibration in a higher sort of them Integrity level and accountability accountability to something so deep and ancient and Beyond even this realm I feel like I’m a delegate of something far beyond just being a dude who can go and fuck people and take your money if I really want to and just take advantage of people who have a lower IQ or whatever or whatever the that’s kind of you know that wolfen or the the fox in The Henhouse Tantra man a true thing is is just a well I’ve got the secret to your Enlightenment and it’s in my pants and I can chart you know you can pay me for it and just this really twisted Gigolo I’m going down that was the ultimate abusive the ability to trick people with parlor tricks if Township magic and yeah you know anyway so we can work it will get into the higher Road in the The Good the light side of the force type of thing will get a hold of you now or what should they be signing up mailing list the email website anything they can, that’s like Daddy nothing. Ade Ada NADA like nothing NADA. Calm and if you click on contact they can send me stuff okay cool awesome well and you know I’m going to embed the YouTube video of your classic genre-defining Smash Hit it’s a real you everyone will remember that this is a part of their psychological as you know it’s somebody pinch me this is not happening this is lazy and retroactive Starstruck right now that’s cute, we’ll have a great night have a good to do this and we’ll be in touch soon and congrats on everything and looking forward to next time. Young Brother you take care of all right if you take care of you for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temples after bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episode if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com