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Permaculture Eco-Warriors Establish The Moshram Part 2 TPP281

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In this episode I’m joined by MC Mycopath for a two part series on the past, present, and future of his personal permaculture journey and the establishment of The Moshram

My Non Verbatim Show Notes

MM:

10 years doing landscape consultations, small scale urban repurposing of people’s front and back yards, more hip with local, everything that’s taking place, microbio in soil, plants that co-mingle,

also consulting folks with health

certifications achieved through multiple biochemists

learned that the more fresh foods that we consume, the healthier our cells are

the body that takes us around here

with that, understanding and passion for that, I really wanted to be able to provide highest quality product of food for myself and others, coupled with education

spin farming, brother and I spin farming, didn’t necessarily bring in permaculture

added permaculture principle layer to spin farming

densely growing high value crops in small area

regenerate the living systems

help maintain my living system, at a cellular level, also at a financial and social level

been about 5 years, that I’ve been on this site, had multiple sites over the years

site, least likelihood of it being taken from underneath my feet, all apart of journey

seeing successes and failures in past projects

led me to finding this space

it was through a friend, that was aware that I was looking to scale up

spin farming in brothers back yard, with brother

then when on to slightly expanding at space I was at

really like to bring it all to one location and just do this

generally around vegetable crops

annuals predominantly

put in a layer of perennial crops

also longer term species, fruit trees

learned fascinating things about fruit

fruit tree requires least amount of water over long time period

gives back a lot to soil

soil is really just millions or billions of living organisms

eating pooping, dying, whole things perpetuating

through roots and leaves, branches, fruits, they drop all feeding system

year in year out

bring together this whole concept

put it at a term, silvopasture

rows of fruit trees, or some type of tree

aid in creating shade

aid in slowing down wind

not requiring a lot of water, relative to other annual crops

in between rows, would grow annual crops

maybe these annual crops are things just to regenerate soil

rotational crop, in between lettuce, grow vetch, cow pea, to reinvigorate the soil from what was depleted from what was the previous crop you cultivated

what we set out to do here

very densely packed rows of vegetable crops to sell at market and too individuals through CSA type program

longer term species of varying fruit trees

simply move forward upon goals of project, something that’s always an unknown, fortunately and unfortunately, that collaborative team of 3 individuals broke down

mediator, wasn’t sustainable, they didn’t vibe well, both wanting to walk away which they did

I was not very interested in walking away from another project, having it swept out from under me, again ,because these two egos weren’t collaborating

move post differences

differences got in the way

I wasn’t feeling, stepping away from all of the work we had done from contouring the land, to bringing in so much organic matter, infusing bacterium, all sorts of soil microbiology

perennial fruit trees, you have to wait some time, 3-5 years minimum to reap harvest

I didn’t have it in me to just be like you guys aren’t into, either am I, I am into it

don’t just want to do it here, want to perpetuate this stamp, different biomes

so cal region, mediteranean biome, only about 7 med, climates on the planet, tend to be the most lucrative for humans to co-exist with surroundings, temperatures, food crops, wild and domesticated

love to see what it’s like in other bioregions as well, other climatic elements

we’ve got going on what we have here

you came forward saying how interested you were in helping perpetuate this project, it was like the clouds parted

working on this site, we’re on 10s of acres, just working out a little over an acre, just maintenance alone for one person is daunting to say the least

just because we put together a holistic system doesn’t mean there’s no more work

actually perpetual, no end to amount of work, just in pruning things, cultivating

easy to plant seed, easy to harvest, cultivation in between, I don’t know if it’s gonna survive or not, I’ll do everything I can

lot of energy mental, physical, spiritual

one dude, isn’t gonna hold the world on his back man, either are two

TP: makes me think I’m gonna use another term for defining permaculture and call it ecological parenthood

caring for something to maturity

young families go through it, terrible twos, fighting, health similar thing

tree system here, adolescent,

MM: not as easy as dealing with child, can’t teach a tree how to fight off a squirrel, they’re bullies

TP: the timeliness of this, synchronicities will be unveiled later

rick straussman, first actual government sanctioned psychedelic research studies since the 70s, gap of 20 years

spirit molecule, interviewed,

recently, basically saying, people would ask did he take DMT,

he would give a vague answer or plausible deniability

eventually recently came out, admitted, yeah, I was doing it

I’m like fuck yeah, I wanted to hear that for so many years, scientist had the balls to do what he was talking about

ties back together, something he said, meta level life philosophy

you know, back then I had my whole career ahead of me still, a lot to lose, judged, critique, older, less of my life left, that’s much less life to lose

we’re at a point where I don’t want to piss off the wrong people, I don’t want to be a target, wait til we have resilience before we have grand opening at this site

eventually will ripened, eventually forced by demand, people will need it

sweet spot in time, security measures, support we need, capital, be in place for the time we want to open the gates

get to that point when, we did the thing, not much left to lose, tell the story, give real names, not give a fuck

certain things now, I feel like, at least statute of limitations has run out on some things, one metric

that feeling, we’ll get to a point where we don’t have that much to lose

my side of story of having fallen in love with this site, toured project in the past, wishing I could be more connected, occasion to visit

definitely feel like it was one of the most epic works in progress of so cal permaculture

ability to do it right

social permaculture dynamics of human sector, zones of humans, sector of humans, human elements, could have most beautiful property, dynamics surrounding neighbors be your worst enemy, false starts,

time energy, blood, blisters, heart ache, amount of effort that goes into permaculture project, somebody that’s they’re mission, to have that be continually ripped out in front of you

people don’t even see it

persecution of religious sects, we are the lost tribe of permies, that are constantly being haranged by neighbors

adapted us also to travel light in our personal empires

positive side effect of lifestyle of ecological romance

nudge nature to create symphonies of seed and soil

less hindered

student of Tyler Durgen, waking up after car crash with Edward Norton, the world I see, laying out strips of vennisen

hunter gathers, thriving on the carcass of industrial collapse

utopian anarchoprimitivists, intellectual elite, from eugene, green anarchist, wanna be poser,

not everybody was a poser, the heads that were the elitist, very hyper intellectual, authors and writers, wind bags, had all this talk

in eugene the founder of food not lawns, we’d go there talk bs about living primitive, blessing her with presence of our lofty conversations, decades later we don’t have our food forest, we don’t have fruit trees maturing, resentment, burnt bridges

super extra appreciate hard work that’s been done

this site, work you’ve done, huge grace, a pass, I could and should very well be punished for how far I’ve strayed from the path of planting trees, defending them, standing by them, storms, storming off of partners and lovers, mission and duty to make a stand

there’s a lot of times I’ve said this is not the hill I’m gonna die on, and this is the first time I can actually say this is a high that I would die on, for a lot of reasons, biggest gift to me, is to know

who is tantra punk, wacko jerk off wanna be tyler durgen alter ego, that split off from psychedelic ceremonies that got botched, and now this floating soul part of my old wounded self, has created this internet porn star wanna be freak, don’t have much ecological, I have bastard children trees, all over the place, to be able to be like

while you were out there, doing this thing, that could have got you in trouble, some what of an adventure, fool hardy, never would have expected that I could just cheat that time that I walked away from the permaculture path, did this freaky stuff

hey ben, dinners ready, fruit falling from trees, I just get to get back into the zone, almost 10 years since I was in deep coastal mountain broad acre permaculture, doing the trees, doing the systems right, the scale, the soil

waltz into this at a point you’d be beleagured, bromance novel cover if there ever was one

thanks to the designer of designers, tip had lift glass to him

be great to go into the shark tank part of this, now the reinforcements in the form of me and my humble but growing financial capital I can put in to keep things afloat, elbow grease, sweat equity

optimizing dance of mutuality, with responsibilities, rights, tasks, finances, between the two of us

alchemy we’re doing, the renaissance of this project, bring into 2.0 era

trajectory of , drawing from the permies community, paul wheaton, survival podcast, larry santoyo, different instructors we’ve had

business model for the site, the rebel farmers like sepp holzer, austria, kramaterohoff, epic contour narrow ponds support subtropical microclimates, high elevation fruit trees

so abundant, epic, done epic shit, considered to be the ultimate rock star, don’t think any other place on earth, other mature permculture projects, the profitability and scale and grandeur, I don’t know what I would compare to the kramaterhoff on earth

wonders of the world of permaculture tour, walk through it sometime

business model, everything else in agriculture sector, globalized race to the bottom, poison, toxic

convince people to want to buy american, niche for premium products, usually sick people who can afford to take your advice

don’t want to give crutch of supplying, want to teach them to do it themselves, leverage their acreage, their community

the idea of farming to enable other people to not be horticulturalists, shift from that as soon as possible

paradigm, living the dream, market gardeners, the biproduct of creating plenty of best varieties of food we’d like to eat, we’ll have excess, and with that excess we can play god to an extent in the economy because of how much of ecological ninjas we are

rather than try to package it all in plastic, get it in all the stores, scale it to the world

we make a more dense local economy out of it, healing center, learning center, teaching them how to fish, not selling them a fish per se

in my crude nut shell of a pitch, that’s the trajectory we’ve been most in agreement about

if somebody had infinite budget to invest, why should they buy into this as working co-op member, or non-working co-op member, how can people benefit from helping us

MM: few dudely dudes, I’ve met could really have no care to well being of nature around them, small minority of people I’ve spoken with of time on this path, over 20 years

experience with biodiesel co-op, very localized project, I would do education to engineering firms, groups

education at earth day festivals, people contribue, become non-working members of biodiesel co-op because they like what’s going on, think it’s a good direction

if anybody has capital, monetary, social, spiritual, any of the 8 forms of capital, that they are willing to share to perpetuate, the direction of this project

this may sound overzealous, I couldn’t think of a better project, or more dedicated individuals to invest that capital in

it’s one of those put your money where your mouth is

my clients in landscaping and in the health regeneration, many of them, actually buy into what I have to share, because of how I’m living my life

I’m not just using words, I’m hands in the soil, I’m doing everything I can at every corner

from what I know of you, been a crucial part of so many projects, that at one point or another it wasn’t your jive anymore for whatever reason

here we are find ourselves together on a mountain we’re will to die on

and it takes a community always

for anyone that would like to be a part of this community and see it perpetuate

be able to visit the site

local,

to benefit from the harvests of all of this, where else are you gonna put your money, time, energy, love

I’m not sure

it’s like you said man, this is one of the rare sites of southern california, any and all help, helps perpetuate a holistic project, working towards the great good of the local and world community when it comes down to it

held a lot of retreats, get people from all over the world, host in tropics, pretty good centralized area, highly abundance

ripe things to eat, throughout the year

amount of people that congregate, so diverse, so incredible, have a lot to share

at this point we have a site that any and all people interested have the ability to share

before it’s all been other people’s sites, very temporary, the time that gets spent there

long term expanded version of those experiences, and “retreats”

where else are you gonna put your resources, if you want to see great things happen, cause that’s all we’re really into

passionate

tend to only roll with those who are equally passionate about making this place a better place to be

agenda 21,

different concept of human settlement zones, from what we’re working towards here

TP: yes

to say the most and the least, that says it all, what could I add to that

nuts and bolts of this business modeling, goes back to legacy of my parents at some point will read the manifesto my father wrote for member based, for-profit nonprofit, fruit based operation, deep in heart of washington state apple orchard lands, building a massively, dense, intensive educational commercial project, rusticness, design constraint, make all tools, tools to make tools, melting down old cars, human powered, they were one of the first and most highly respected, wasn’t hippie commune, very studious, technical, published technical manual, subscribers to periodical, whether they purchased wares or we students, subscribe to catalog, kind of like micro version of mother earth news

department of making you said, interviewed mom, years ago, maybe now the time, one of those things you never know when it’s appropriate, get people on podcast, get perspectives, state of world, might be our last conversation, could go for anybody, did great interview with mom about 10 years ago, transapocalyptic, utopian for her, fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree

hard dharma, karmic seeds of melt down of family, trauma, wasted years, trouble, lot of years to get on the course that fell apart

a lot of people, children of the hippies

there’s something magical about the fact that here we are kind of at the age our parents were, as a generation, hippie, back to the land 2.0, we had woodstock,the rainbow gathering spawned from that, what are children of hippie’s doing now, actually fulfilling some of those dreams

we have now psychedelic shamanism, and not just acid, the electric kool aid test, these people went back to the land, no shamanic oversight, no elders,

even Geoff Lawton jokes, sad joke, comic tragedy, I wonder how many communes failed because they didn’t understand proper solar orientation, they bought land on north facing slopes, gave themselves an uphill battle on steep slopes facing the shadow of the sun, don’t even know why they melted down

permaculture,

we can learn from a lot of those mistakes, well positioned to demonstrate, and proudly display the next generation of the back to the land movement again at a time my mother talked about in the podcast

people went back to the land at the peak of the OPEC oil crisis in early 1970s

it wasn’t 1969 and summer of love, melt down of haight ashbury into tweaker rape culture madness,

they didn’t go directly from peak of 60s to back to the land, survivalist, apocalyptic thing, cities going to evaporate and collapse, economy gonna collapse, have to head to hills and start building a future

but brought in patriarchy, monoculture, only little bits of eastern mysticism

wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for that

now, okay, this is for me the most pure and karmically cleansed and most righteous set of circumstances to do your thing

are you really these eco artisans the whole world should pay attention to, or destined to fail

may not be the last place I ever work on

do world tour of biomes

if you take permaculture design course you want to be like a army ranger, navy seal, eco macguevery, swiss army knife, want to be deployed in every climate

because you know how to do things like harvest snow melt for nursery underground

be a bad ass shit, being a bad ass eco warrior with all this knowledge

do what special forces and green berets, what if all the engineering and money and investing and capital, everything that went into napalm and agent orange, if instead of destroying ecology, all that cultural engineering of warfare, went into actually creating a more resilient opposition through permaculture

tactical permaculture, make it impossible for them to put land mines in territory you want to defend, created thorny trellising, motes, father in military

being a bad ass, be tactical, have a reason to train, not mma, good for them but

wanna have something I love that’s worthy of defending that would keep me in shape just by working it, origins of kung fu and farming

bit of a tirade from me

MM:

I really like how you brought up that the fruit does not fall far from the tree, parents

definitely feel, that’s a thing that goes on in nature, we’re a part of it

we’re carbon copies of these people we call our parents

we emulate them in so many ways, because of the signature for which they gave us, dna

as father was one of most brilliant men I’ve ever met in my life

I would come forward to father with things I’ve learned, he would share how could he thought it was, what it made him think about

prior too, a little apprehensive, most brilliant man, hey check this out, not knowing what kind of feedback, always positive re-enforcement

honoring that we can do as individuals in relationship to our ancestors, that can be very important for mental scape, how we conductor ourselves in our lives

bro, sounds like a spitting image of your dna tree

I would imagine your mother and father had some similar thing for them

fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree

TP: I should shout out thank you to your father, have to name the library after him

lots of bro time to catch up on, and create that space where we can, aya ceremonies, 2 or 3 generations in one ceremony of family members, pretty epic

we’re healing ourselves, healing each other, healing the masculine, and creating a safe and welcoming space for the feminine to be free to be fully expressed

said before no offense, I kinda feel like, well it goes back to waynes world, fully functional babe layer, you can design for the woman in you, and the woman you want on you, save 9th form of capital for another episode

not a monastery, not womanizers either, between monastery and rapey womanizer cult, we’re probably somewhere in the middle

we need our other ethical brothers to step up, we have some healing to do in our tribe of permaculture, takes a lot of those talks about our fathers and what they did and didn’t teach us

so, that conversation is an open forum, its fun to shoot guns and practice your kicks and punches, equally important to break down and let yourself be, pummelled and tenderized by letting go of trauma, letting brother hood energy find those deep wounds and fractures, more energy buried we could be apply to our tree parenthood, soil parenthood, aquaculture parenthood, seed parenthood

MM:

along those lines of the multigenerations of lineage through psychedelic experience, its always bewildered me, with my psychedelic experiences with mushrooms, everytime I sense my grandfather,at first really weird thing, now a presence I’m aware of, hear and feel mutterings, only knew for short period of my life

at this point it’s very interesting, grandfather said, you’re back, maybe I’m back, it’s nice to be with you

thanks for helping to perpetuate my father,

what can I do for us

great thing

TP: it’s like working for a company, at office chair, every once in a while the owner comes in, the day the owner comes in, checking it out, what’s your name, trippy, ancestor worship is a thing

use it or lose it

I feel in this life, pretty damn abandoned by ancestors, been torn asunder to depths of hell such that ancestors have been blocked off by dark armies of hell, demons, but we’re gonna compost the shit out of them, find that the spirit guides were always there, they were just blocked, we didn’t make it easy for them to get back to us

of all the times I’ve felt I don’t know if I belong here, don’t know what I should be doing here, try to destroy ego, never lasts, very few times and place where I feel there is pure righteousness

liberate this land from all the plastic, multigenerational journey

dance with past and future, toxic gick, pure nature, spirits definitely guiding us

applauding efforts, works cut out for you, each one teach one, clean it up, scale it out

microcosm of what has to be done for the whole planet, on every planet

MM: not controlled by forces that think they’re higher

TP: decentralized, mycopathic, path of mycology

talk about martial arts, personal development, brother hood, men’s group experience that we’re working on and developing synthesis of spiritual, self defense, fitness through working the land, grace of being connected to your yin, notion of not just another wet noodle retreat center, traipsing around in loosest clothing, look at me I look like I just jumped out of a Rambo set, and yet I’m spiritual, dancing, smelling flowers, appreciating all the rainbows, but I can also do some ninja rolls, lift some heavy shit, drag some shit around, and do what’s gotta be done, ideal of a shaolin temple, double dragon fruit

playing up this idea, thinking about, if I was a kid, in the peak of my GI Joe fan boyness I would love to be shooting airsoft guns, tactical training with seed shot pellets, was nature boy, played in nature

how much fun families can be having, applying energy going into videos or going into being a boxer, mma fighter

masculine energy, protection, defense, epic garden project, for masculine energy to balance itself and exhaust itself, place for healthy catharsis, healthy relationships, families, we can both speak to

will be legacy to leave behind, a martial, permaculture, ecological, new martial culture as well, no surprise, or coincidence that we both, been blessed by profound journey’s into what other brutish me respect, not just purple breathers, also to some degree bad asses

love to hear you talk about, the spirit of the dragon fruit that animates you and your kung fu gardening techniques

MM:

made reference to that hippie thing, an elder at one of the rainbow gatherings I was sitting with , great acronym, term hippie, happy intelligent person, pursuing infinite excellence

never my thinking when it came to hippies, people that smelled bad, sat around got high and kept sitting around

just talking isn’t accomplishing,

pursuing infinite excellence, taking it to another level, punk rock perspective

you are a hippie, you smell like scum, I’m your worst enemy, a middle class street punk

and I always resonated with that, really nice to get that different perspective of what hippie could be

greater mobility in body, sought out chi gong master, chinese yoga for lack of better terms

not just stretching

entire philosophy, after about a year of training, sifu said, training is great, very yin, balance out with kung fu, more yang,

open to this, cool

always wanted, wanted to have military training for various reasons it wasn’t something that happened, along same line of hippie

kung fu, nearly synonymous, life mastery

mastering whatever life is for me, to me

level of giving back that comes from all of that

began training kung fu

4-5 days a week sometimes 2 sessions a day, my body started to really get in tune with motions, weapons training, when we think back to the shaolin, where kung fu started

these were farmers, weapons were their farm tools, really started to come through as my body got accustomed to movements, started using these implements in the farm, body now knew how to use them in a more appropriate way

ergonomics

rake or hoe, swing it out with arms, shoulders, and back, or put it out there and move hips back and forth, all power in your hips

spirals up through feet, hips, outward

utilizing that technique with farm tools

new relationship with tools and how to work with land and my body, all in same go

weeding, clearing debris, chopping things down, practicing kung fu

martial arts/life mastery

mastering far more of my body, tools, and tools that work with land

symbiosis, something that we can all benefit to apply in our lives, in any way shape or form

not everybody’s gonna go be a farmer

maybe you’re pushing a vacuum

you can cause strain or you can no cause strain to body, which then causes strain or not on the body, perpetuates through spirit

something that I’m still evolving into I feel like but its very empowering

self reliance

being able to provide for yourself, doesn’t just mean growing food, having land, also means self defense

never know where you’re gonna find yourself

bring those things into all of those life practices, another science that fills one of those holes in that permaculture raft we get pushed out into the water

brings it all back around, self feeding, self perpetuating

mentally physically and spiritually

TP:

brings us full circle

pleasant meanderings, through path of this convo, summary of most of our various contexts, working or grubbin on fruit, whatever it is, comings and goings, as we’ve been carving out this niche for ourselves

always reminds me of the movie that got me first enchanted with martial arts, van damme, blood sport

here we are, tactical permaculture moment going back to deepest roots of romance with nature and martial arts

ninjitsu master, frank dux, he was talking to parents, european parents of young frank dux, depicted to be wine farmers, vineyard, meeting of parents

train with japanese ninjitsu master

frank told me you grow vines, boys like vines need training, martial science brings mind, body, spirit together

we’re fulfilling that prophesy

we’re dudes,

point about military, I mentioned this not too long ago, in jest, valid point

hey america, if you would have given me a real war, or real cause to fight for, I would have served on the front lines, it’s been nothing but bullshit, you don’t get to have this body/mind

don’t give traumatic brain injury, lead poisoning, blow my limbs off, make me unable to sustain a relationship, cut my VA benefits for using cannabis

you don’t get any of that shit, not in this lifetime, maybe that could change, who knows what battles will need to be fought

the joke I made, we’re not we’re not less of bad asses that we didn’t get military training, we’re actually more, if we can be, without having the training of those instructors, and we can train our damn selves, read same manuals, same marksmanship, survival training, mindset of discipline, selection

break you down

I was my own drill segerant, life circumstances carved my ass from cookie dough to wood

health, wellness, survival, comes from putting skin in the game

better to have warrior in garden than gardener in war,

debilitating malformed meme of utopian pacifism

idea that we all need to be genderless, a mush of micro trauma egg shell walking, I’m a man, I embrace that, I don’t need impose, I embrace and love and support cherish diversity, space for everyone

phrase, vin armani brought to attention:

seed conversations of what I’d like to call and have been implementing

permaculture training experience for tactically minded, some of the best training, with hardcore lesbian women, guns and ammo, blades, bows and arrows plaster their walls instead of boy band posters, those are my best friends

ongoing thing that, I want to be the guy that the butch warrior lesbians like to play with on a full moon when they feel like, interesting romance, another story

have to cover my ass and say it’s not hyper masculine, toxic masculine militia

who wants to be securing the perimeter, that’s what we need first, can’t have whole tribe or family unless we can defend them

call to action, strong willed, strong minded, disciplined, people who want to be bangin sticks as they say in pekiti tirsia kali training, continual life long conditioning and training, being a warrior , really mean something for good cause

quote: michael hopf, those who remain,

hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times,

put that in your pipe and smoke it

enough from me

over and out, roger

thank you again

MM: honor brother, insightful, exciting having this conversation, whoever you are out there listening, hope you were able to glean something from it

summary, I feel like, initially I’d stated how going back to permaculture, can be applied to anything that you do, require taking a permaculture design course with instructor you’d like to learn from, and personality types are thing

I have studied a lot of things in my short time here, does always come back to the principles of permaculture

when I educate others on health, they don’t know it but they’re getting a quick permaculture design course for the body

utilizing all these principles around the landscape we call our bodies

a bunch of cells living together

body, gardening cells, out there gardening soil conditions to provide foods for our cells to utilize

its one of the most valuable trainings that I’ve ever had in my life,

people that also take these course, share similar sentiment

that’s about it

end this with as mc mycopath

end a lot of health lectures with a rap, haven’t done this one in a while, see how it goes

TP: gotta get that out in the drum circle, put some beats on that, hippie drum beats on that

more to come

this conversation is to be continued, next, while we’re still tying up lose ends, give audio tour of integrated systems and logic of design of systems, address

situational report, what we’ve got going what we need help with, if people have time or resources or expertise, what’s been established what’s being established, hearing a bit about what we’re processing, actual road map of what we’re doing, laid out the backstory

of what could be an epic opportunity for ourselves

all sliding scales of wealth, we’re providing

free offerings online, all kinds of content, you’ll be whippin up a podcast, holding the camera for each other to do a lot of the teaching we want to

following up with some a/v content

be comin at cha again soon

big love to you and to all the forces seen and unseen that made it possible to be at this point

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Permaculture Eco-Warriors Establish The Moshram Part 1 TPP280

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In this episode I’m joined by MC Mycopath for a two part series on the past, present, and future of his personal permaculture journey and the establishment of The Moshram

My Non Verbatim Show Notes

MM:

started out…trouble maker

parents id as ruthless child

stuck me into acting classes, young age

outlet, unrelenting energy

most of childhood, child actor

kindergarten or first grade, hollywood, 7 or 8 years

with that, element of not really going to school, always had to go to auditions, for anything and everything, tv shows, movies, photoshoots,

state law, school for 3 hours, after, in a car driving to hollywood

30-45 percent of time, on-sets throughout elementary school and middle school

lot of really cool work, met great people

tv shows

terminator 2

really great look into the world

moved to san diego, took me out of lime light

distraught, in child actor phase didn’t have to go on audition, just get phone calls, hey you’re hired

once no longer in that realm, I’m a performer, its really in me

astrologically, birth date, title for every day of the year, my day is the grand stage, seemed very fitting, been on stage most of life

when no longer in eye of the camera, some guys that I was in high school with, had a punk band, asked to audition, became the front man of that band, we rocked the so cal punk scene at the right time, right place right time

so cal punk scene blowin up in the 90s, part of that, amazing ride, meet incredible people, see amazing places at a young age

sound recording program

kept furthering it

life would have it, never know certain things are gonna derail you, spin you off/push in another direction

near death experience, NDE

one day, heart stopped, really into meditation

wanted to see how long of breaths I could take, minute in, minute out, strange mental objective, 1.5 in 1.5 out, during that my heart stopped

learned I needed a bit more pressure on the valve to keep that heart pumping, pressure from lungs

that’s its own crazy story, insights gained

done a lot of research on nde,s majority similar story

found myself in consciousness, not in my body, two hands in front of me, a choice, one to come back here, one to stay there, red and blue pill scenario

chose to come back here

flood of information, really expanded consciousness, awareness,

all the sudden looking at body, re entered body, heart began to beat, whoa

looking at friends crying over my body

heart started to beat, freaked out

told me I was dead for a couple minutes

seemed like eternity

really took me on a whole different path

one of the things that came through that transmission, “go back to the earth”

fundamental premise of my entire experience here, ever since then

around 18 years old at the time

next time I ever spoke to somebody, really weird place

whole life tweaked, isolated

next person I spoke to: appalacian trial,

all I heard was go back to the earth, sounds like that’s the way to go back to the earth

cool, dropping everything, go to the trail, go to the woods see where life takes me

hiked the trail,

8-9 months

somethings I’ve learned in life, you can’t prepare for

think I know where I’m going, what I’m gonna do, what it will take, wasn’t true

broken in first few days

but I’m a very persistent individual, eyes on prize, had to keep going, went out with buddy,

didn’t have same persistence, can be grueling, being exposed to all elements, every day

first couple weeks, nothing but rain, head to toe, all your stuff, tweak your mental space and physical space

I kept on truckin, met amazing people

opened up to graciousness that exists in others, re-instilled my love of my fellow man, and compassion

coming from punk scene, I had lyrics I don’t exactlyi resonate with at this point, some that I do

some that…fuck the world, FTW, about to tattoo it on my forearm, thankfully I didn’t although now I would take that off to “fruit the world” so it’d still be applicable

back to the trail, ever expanding

stress fractures in foot

parked on largest waterfall on east coast, hung out, put foot in water til inflammation went down

while doing that, came across hippies, definitely open, but my punk background, I eat hippies for lunch,

expanded self, open to people, great energy, great passion for earth, not entirely at purple breather end of things, could resonate with their cause, going to rainbow gathering, never heard of such a thing, enlightened me,

cool,

decided to walk from florida to pennsyl

I was in the middle of their path

I said I’m going to gathering as well

hitch hiking excursion to gathering

really phenomenal thing.

TP: lots of good things, criticisms, some of most trusted mentors, hardcore devotees, know it’s a mecca, been on bucket list

MM: really opened me up even more, at first felt a little out of place, first rainbow gathering I went to in 1999, walking down a trail, punk kid sitting down by a river, cleaning some clothes or something, boom box, rocking old school punk, hippies walking by , turn that crap off, negativity towards punk kid, see him giving them a finger

people think it’s all love, it’s all everything at the gathering

invitation hippies had given me, paraphrasing, an invitation to a gather for people of all walks of life to pray for world peace

punk kid getting yelled out, connected with him, reflect back at myself, we are all here, I get that kid, alright, dont’ know, haven’t talked to him, get what he’s dealing with, really all walks of life

I was hooked, first gathering there for 3 months, went with 10 dollars, sustained my life for 3 months, dug a lot of shitters, made a lot of food, a lot of keeping fire going, hot water, it was a magical experience, helped me realize importance of feeling like you’re needed

getting kick backs of food, couldn’t ask for much more, sustenance

really changed my life

ever since 1999, only missed 3 rainbow gatherings

16-17 I’ve attended, really feel like family

see faces I’ve been seeing for 20 years

can’t say I connect with everybody, I have differences

no electronics, rules, flashlight, thanks for killin my night vision

TP: I was in the tree sits in oregon, early 2000s, lot of people from rainbow gathering would go to tree sits, a lot of memes, how I learned more about the subculture,

harshing mellow with lights, I can commiserate on both sides now, one up man ship, paul wheaton, some protesters they like to beat you over the head with their protest sign

MM: things have really changed, people walking down the trail text messaging

everything adapts and advances, so has the family, been interesting to watch

altered my perception of what can be, there is an opportunity for us to throw up some kitchens, cultivate and harvest foods, prepare them and share them

not a lot of cultivation taking place, not to say a lot of farmers don’t grow specific rows just to give to the family

farmers pull up from a trailer, from any corner of the country that they brought to feed people that share this vision

TP:

while on rainbow family, for a moment, mentioned before, I personally have only heard of the mythic legends of rainbow and burning man, wanted to experience both, spoken or unspoken tension between the two

segway of tactical permaculture, want to go to these places, hang out, participate in holistic debauchery, escape retreat get out of city

but also have urban guerrilla, urban permaculture, burning man and rainbow come to same place and time, in the city, actually come in and seize an urban area and print out a permaculture design and be a lasting net benefit,

boom festival in portugal, not just temporary autonomous zone, but a permaculture autonomous zone

hopefully be there some day, idea of a more applied use of all those ethics, all the people, ability to raise a barn, and party, and whatever

wanna talk about, so you have not been to burning man, have been in this other tribe, other clan, if you want to segway into if you’re real visionary and want to transform the world, bring the candle into darkness

MM:

never been to burning man, certainly know plenty of burners, heard stories, seen pictures, videos, on and on

the collaboration, definitely can be a great thing, from a rainbow perspective, speak for no body, no one can speak for another, just a bunch of individuals, going some place to collaboratively exist and pray for wold peace, beyond that there’s nothing,

can’t apply for permits, can’t get land under said name

gone to a lot of vision councils, can take days to over a week, learned a lot from some of the elders

other rainbow family listening, apologize if I botch it, if not mistaken, navajo offered land for rainbow family to collectively gather and stay, autonomous zone on tribal lands

because no body can represent the rainbow family, no body’s able to accept that

find that is a really strong element of rainbow ethics, I cannot speak for you, you cannot speak for me, we’re all autonomous here, awesome

also see how there’s a level of hindrence there, doesn’t provide framework to collectively gather and build these spaces for generations of time, just pop up events, a few months

what is the entity that would cooperatively manage that space, enough nah votes within rainbow, operates on consensus, if you don’t get consensus, you don’t get to move forward, empowering thing, slows things down, really good objective, within any form of governance, the slower it can move the healthier, jumping the gun..pitfalls

no body represents anybody, except for themselves

TP: brings up fork, validating sense that going back to paleolithic, presettled nomadic cultures, gypsies, you don’t collect diseases from animals, don’t pollute an area if you’re always nomadic, shifting, relocating, horde less stuff, less material objects,

huge respect, as anthropologist of radical subcultures and movements, I love the idea you don’t burn the spot, set upa lace, do your thing then move on, maybe cycle back again

two different modes, having a permanent location,

also notion or stay at location, own rent, squat, or be nomadic, multiple locations

practical permaculture informed, project, objective, mission,

go to this site, clean up brown field, plant stuff, cycle back in a few years, for next phase, more of a deployment,

installation work, facilitated

what if you had drones and different party lights, projecting lazer lights on contour lines for people to stomp and dig and build, permaculture design, light show that displays design on landscape, different teams all in the grove, cadence, dancing, next level stuff

MM: brother, that concept blows my mind, rainbow gathering maybe 2001, montana, amazing gathering hung out with ram dass, saw bob dylan, awesome folks out there

we went there, always an element for vision counsel, going to places that need healing, not just restorative work from an ecological perspective, also from spiritual, energetic perspective

places where massive battles have been fought, concept of altering the energetic pattern that is locked into that land, with this loving thing that takes place at rainbow, 4th of july

silence that takes place, from sunrise until rainbow noon, silence broken by children in parade,

silence, gathering around peace pole, ceremonially put into earth, so as we can direct our energy into the pole, goes into the earth and up to the heavens, one of the ways to infuse and release the new energy and the old energy that is ingrained in that space

ecologically, always found it incredible

between 10k and 40k people, a lot of pee and poop, with contour lines, seen this, if we could dig our shitters on contour lines these could be some seriously fertile beds for sprawling of wildlife plants

going back to montana situation, about 10 years later, went back

hit me one morning, opening tent, looking out seeing what could have been had we had some constructive planning 10 years previous

whenever choice was made to go back to montana, had we had the forsight to put into some type of plan

nomadically hit these spots, come back around to them maybe every 10-15 years, see ecological benefit

usually people talking about impact from negative perspective

clean up crew, site impeccable when we left, no devastation that ever took place

benefited greatly from being at that site

we could have really, all of us brought something with us to share to spread diversity of species, whatever survives, the conditions for it to occur are there

its happy, everything’s comingling,

have things we’d be able to harvest

cultivating is the hardest part

fruits of labor, 10 years later, would be a beautiful thing

TP: awesome, beautiful exploration, leads us to getting back to timeline

rainbow gatherings national forests, different vibe

who knows, just designing, curious, what was that process of evolution from you being a nature boy, having done the hiking, closer to earth, how did you become an ecological designer

MM: had heard the term permaculture, I believe first at a rainbow gathering

reading agenda 21 manual at library, spending days reading, UN soft touch plan for ways to organize and mobilize the direction of the planet, didn’t agree with it, banks running things, how they’ll be running thing, struck odd nerve, doesn’t seem holistic

somebody came up to me mentioning permaculture

couple years later, had hitch hiked around country about 2 years straight, came back to so cal, culture shock so heavy

la to san diego, no way sticking around, vibration not sitting well, go on other side of road, got out of california,

northern minnesota,

nicest place I’d ever been, relocated

up there, in a very tight knit community, one of most artistic, very socially involved

one of my buddies, really into permaculture, purchased designer manual, permaculture 1, lot of words I didn’t understand, just read a book that I didn’t quite get, then came across,

what we’d now call meetups, started going out,

permaculture in cuba, created design, implemented design with people of cuba, one of the gentlemen on that team, host of meet up,

tipped off of concept of greening the desert, from that point on, if you can seriously take desert biome and make it green, there’s something cool going on here, always wanted to participated in that something cool

we get busy in life, at time was contractor, living in housing co-op, took a lot of my time

building/grounds chair person, chair for funding and development, co-chair for finance, wrapped up, wasn’t pushing as hard as I could, educational/implementation of permaculture frame work

flame worker, glass artist, blowing glass

started biodiesel co-op, wonderful girlfriend

time was eaten up, interested in furthering permaculture studies, permaculture design course, nothing hit right time wise

one year

biodiesel shuts down in winter, large demand for biodiesel in fuel oil heaters, ways to market biodiesel, I went to washington, oregon, northern california, networking, to obtain biodiesel in the winter

4 month journey, in california, on the coast, go to san diego, visit family

friend offered work, doing sign installation, took work, paying amazing, while on one of job sites, co-worker backed over me with a truck

didn’t have NDE, another hard turn in my life, curses can turn out to be blessing

could not walk, told would never walk again, not an easy thing to sit with

after going through the heavy bouts of depression, I’ve always wanted to take a permaculture design course, I’m doin it

started me down the higher levels of my understanding with permaculture

2 week intensive

mind was blown

to say the least, all I wanted to do was perpetuate installations utilizing the techniques and understandings I had gained

took another course, and another course

heavy amount of info, retention, very small, remember things at the very beginning, the very end

a lot of material in the middle to get lost in the ether of the mind

kept taking it, again, again

wanted to better understand

fill in gaps

after a few pdcs, remember speaking with one of my mentors and teachers

late great, toby hemenway

really want to go to school, considering constitutional law or sustainable agriculture

education through university system, Toby looks at me, pulled a Bill Mollison on me, can you give me an example of a sustainable agricultural system,

not that I’m aware,

then how you gonna study

right, so true

so

I found myself perplexed,

you need to do whatever you think is best for you

if you’re interested in studying plants, study horticulture, how plants relate to soil and how soil relates to plants

have yet to meet lawyer who’s a happy individual

work with plants, tend to be happy

gonna pursue horticulture degree

amazing program

after that

heard permaculture described

younger brother, pdc in thailand

metaphor for permaculture

pdc is like being given a raft with a bunch of holes in it, get pushed out to sea in raft, have to plug up all the holes

holes are different sciences, permaculture is taking all the sciences and weaving them together

great metaphor

I’ve become certified in so many specialty modalities, gray water, holistic range management, super adobe construction, soil food web, mycology,

it’s endless, the sciences, thermodynamics

the more we understand these things , the more holistic of a design we can create, and implement

still at a point where I need crutches or a walker to walk

came across a biochemist, that gets quads walking

I’m not a quad, just needed assistance in walking

biochemist hit me with truths, unable to refute

run for money with body

inflammation went down, pain went away, could walk again, limited mobility because of contracts

regained mobility

taking in data

learn what biochemist did

studied with 3 biochemists

live blood analysis

things to be learned from every corner

biochem made sense, because of soil science

stake functions, things already learned

different realms

become much of my life at this point

passionate of regenerating living systems

soil, water, human terrain, animals,

certified in all sorts of modalities

all come together

in this web that we call permaculture

permaculture is really, not gardening

it’s something that you apply to whatever you do, could be a brain surgeon, apply principles in your surgeon practice

as long as reaping harvest from what we cultivate in a holistic manner

permanence within culture

everything gardens

fruits vegetables, fungal systems,

monetary, capital, things and stuff if that’s what is needed

holistic manner

all technically practicing permaculture

TP: permaculture rabbit hole

infinite fractal patterns, not just set of tools and techniques, philosophy, interdisciplinary science

attempts to define it

sustainable human settlement design

warren brush, living beautifully, everyones got a different way

permaculture is just applied ecology, repackaged ecology

true but not end all be all

is permaculture a cult, paul wheaton, put the cult in permaculture, joking

cynicism, too expense, hacked permaculture design course, permaculture party pack torrent

mentor, lets hack pdc certificate, I’ve put in work, read black book cover to cover, 72hour course with bill and geoff, king and crown prince, done the work, even went to see my punk band, considered that to be my talent show, year long membership, traded him one of first permaculture podcast websites

did our own value add/function stacking design of a student and master

made it work, to get the pdc into the hands of the working class, not enough has been done to get out of mlm pyramid scheme

people don’t make their money back on course

how many certified permaculture designers made the cost of the course back

this is the most priceless education you could ever get, if you take this course and don’t figure out how to make a sustainable living doing whatever you love…

I don’t think you can say it’s too expensive, can say it’s not accessible, amount of time, you need, multiple courses over weekends

radical movement, came out of various earth sciences, disgruntled looks at destructive poisoning, end game of industrial agriculture,

how to look at ethnology and anthropology of horticultural societies

frame work, infinitely scale and branch out in water, soil, trees, land forms, biomes

all from ecology, plus ecological anthropology

sophisticated academic scientific methodical

what were some big take aways, ah has from first course

when it clicked for you

super practical, how come this is not already mainstream

first moments of revelations

educational piece

quick intro to permaculture

MM:

crucial element obtained initially through pdc, understanding that the perfect system is the system that we are all birthed into, nature, nature doesn’t have flaws, as far as I’m aware of, it’s all creating its all consuming, everything feeds and everything eats everything else so there is no waste, fascinating

every ecological niche is included there

main thing with that would be observation of any of those elements

bees, ants, fungus, bacteria, trees, we can just go on and on, how water flows, on and on, comes back to these elements, naturally occuring

something aware of before first pdc

some of most successful systems built, we all use, the internet, sending packages through modems, and routers

my understanding the awareness of how to make that an effective system was done by watching ants, and how ants transfer data along their path,

mimicked how ants transfer data, this is how we’re transferring data right now, ,audio, files, the way that’s going to get from point a to point b mimics pattern for which ants send signals down the line

primary things clicked for me, first pdc

we’re already doing this, just not on a holistic scale, just in these little niches, and people win awards for it

observing nature, apply its patterns to whatever you’re looking to do

standing back and observing

mind gets in the way, nature doesn’t have that

observation, then implementation, perpetual process

never a one and done thing

everything is revolving around observation of the system you have designed to mimic nature

merely humans a piece of nature

our ability is hindered

we have to sit back and observe and see where we were incorrect

see if our observation changes the course of the pattern

we can be benefactors of that production and consumption

TP: love that, some new giving me chills awesome riffs, definitely be integrating that, hadn’t heard about the ants,

for the person who is now thinking okay permaculture, its a way to somehow in the course of the course you will feel confident to begin thinking using the algos of nature

exemplifying that logic

closing that loops, inputs and outputs, systems feedings systems, things be elegantly designed, not a lot of wasted effort, not a lot of toil, so much leveraging of energy, pretty much infinite coming from the sun, capturing and storing, trip trap trip trap, capturing and storing energy, putting it work, gets in engineering

early permies, electrical and mechanical engineers, impulse to construct and build, fix, take apart,

masculine, tendencies, exploring nature

balance of energy of gaia and energy of guys

genders in between

once you get to point of super power of thinking like nature,

being abundant, feed yourself and community, heal landscapes

scale, fold fertility onto itself, green eco magic, green the city green the city, do anything

bill mollison, real rebel, reapplying more natural paradigm to death culture of industrial chemical, agriculture and farming

bridge in time line to where you’re doing commercial enterprise, taking horticulture and permaculture, fighitng the system of agriculture, by subverting it from the periphery, creating new strategies to feed people, that subvert the evil empire of ag,

how you deployed yourself for permaculture and against the dominant paradigm of ag

MM: a mantra I really have embodied within myself, creating the conditions for things to occur

biomimicry, learning how to create the conditions for things to occur, then standing back to see if you were right, if it worked

shotgun blast with certain things, put out a 1000 seeds, don’t always have a 1,000 seeds pop up, if you’re lucky, half will

not of same species, may not be a aware of whats going to cultivate under x given conditions

a lot of time talking about all these systems generally roll back to some form of capital, it made me think about a great book that’s out there, the 8th forms of capital, and the brother that has brought us together, while he has had amazing implementations of design, he’s also had an even greater effect from a social capital perspective, being able to bring us together, creating conditions for whatever to occur

group that we’re all associated with, through his social capital, knowing all of us, create conditions for things to occur

co-aligned over the years, and at this point co-aligned on a project moving forward

TP: permabros

beloved brother, 2009-10, first started hanging out, seeing these giant wall size dry erase boards with mind maps

epic, back yard and front yard permaculture food forest, really living the dream, tickles me to no end, this very moment could have very well been a thought bubble on one of his mind maps

#wetrainedforthis

we need to do our craft, take center stage in this moment, ambulance chaser, I’m doomsday prepper, permies seen as apocalyptic

realized, the curse of that world utopian, or utopianism, way for realists to moderate the visionaries

such a curse to be put in that category, destined to fail, like 99% of back to land projects of 70s, may as well stay right in center of system and follow their rules

I know how to hack that curse, as the world gets more dystopian, whatever was utopian 10 years ago, life before cell phones, families talk to each other at restaurants, reading books

utopianism is driving forward looking in rear view mirror

utopian urge to live like the ancestors

knifes edge of industrial progress

utopian that’s easy, parents they chopped wood, but we’re gonna have robots doing it

myopic cultural amnesia

bring it to what the fuck we are doing now

we have been in the shadows, training, doing our own things, and hoping that we can create personal abundance, share the teaching, fruits of labor, no pun intended, brings us into full on the story of this site we’re on, without blowing our opsec and giving it away

so the story of this property in the best way you can deliver it without blowing our cover until we’re ready to unveil offerings to the public

you were already in utopian impossible future before me, you’ve been in this very sweet spot for a quite a while, many things done right

zelda flute planted me here

said vows to spirits, I take care of you, you keep me here

ancestors, animals, plants, minerals, what do you need from me, how can I stay here

big slice of heaven, promised land

big thank you, back to question, what’s the story of this magical little slice of heaven on earth?

Ancestral Foods as Culinary Shamanism with Shonagh Home TPP188

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Shonagh Home Pic

In this episode I’m joined again by one of my most respected psychedelic shamanic heroines, Shonagh Home.  We discuss the culinary shamanism of ancestral foods and how she has helped herself, her family, me, and many others kick the habits of toxic addictive and misguided disease causing diets. She shares about her upbringing and how her health and fitness conscious youth years created a strong foundation for her to speak from experience.

She provides an amazing overview of the groundbreaking work of some of the most influential researches that have helped myth bust the commercialized, factory farmed diet and restore the legacy of nutrient dense diets.

To balance the disturbing and disgusting harsh truths about the poisons we’re ingesting and how they’re destroying our bodies, our families, communities, and the planet, we the explore the positive hopeful and empowering merits of:  eating animal organs beyond just the meat, raw dairy as wholesome comfort food replacements, farmers markets, biodynamic and permaculture farming, holistic dietary strategies for behavior moderation to end the drugging of school kids, medicinal culinary herbs, resources and recipes for new parents, do-it-yourself fermentation, bitters, her one-on-one nutritional therapy retreats, her forthcoming women’s school, and much more!

Please visit her website at: https://www.shonaghhome.com

About Shonagh:
Shonagh Home is a shamanic therapist, teacher, writer and poet. Her specialized private sessions and retreats are probing and revelatory, assisting clients to break chronic, self-defeating patterns, and move into empowered personal sovereignty. Shonagh is an international public speaker on the subject of visionary shamanic-spirit medicine, a voice for stewardship of the honeybees, and a teacher on the subject of Traditional Foods. She is author of the books, ‘Ix Chel Wisdom: 7 Teachings from the Mayan Sacred Feminine,’ ‘Love and Spirit Medicine,’ ‘Poetic Whispers from the Green Realms,’ and ‘Honeybee Wisdom: A Modern Melissa Speaks.’

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 188 than being joined Again by the lovely Shawna home and we are going to kind of pick up from where we left off in the last episode getting deeper into the holistic Arts and Sciences so that the Culinary Arts events estriol foods and really understand the context there were in now with the sad standard American diet and all of the health problems that are just cascading and what fundamentals I really should be learning about exploring for this is really geared towards new parents who are in the midst of all of the duties that they now have trying to read labels and know what’s what as far as what to avoid so this I hope can be a really good primer that’s going to be pretty Timeless because we’re talking about human biology hasn’t changed in hundreds of thousands of years that the gut Flora the you know what are tongue is used to navigating in the environment to find what we needed or so much intelligence that we are being really abused and and and really manipulated and in having our senses turn against us so plenty to to get into in a moment I just want to also thank you so much sauna for having gifted me access to your Visionary mushroom practicum course and I literally just as of about an hour or so ago I have finished the the final module and binged on it and so I’m just filled with all of that great wisdom and care that you put into it and I want to say there’s so much to explore with that and probably will save that for another episode but for now I’m going to definitely put a permanent banner on my website that can funnel folks from my audience to to check that out I think it’s probably one of the most important units of of learning that I have found myself experienced in that I really want anyone else in the world who who loves the mushrooms you know a millionth of as much as I do to catch up and relieve integrate that course into their their romance so with the sacred mushroom so yeah with all that said Sean if you want to just kind of get yourself a bit and bring us up to speed on what you been up to and then we can get into the main topics I am a therapist I’m in a really am a therapist for all intents and purposes and mostly these days conduct one-on-one Retreats and so and what I offer is really unique on most people would say actually hell no I have I have my client come to my home and they stay through the week with me and so they arrive on Sunday afternoon they leave Friday morning and it’s buried deep psycho-spiritual work and IT addresses the very deep layers of patterning and includes time spent out in nature includes different shamanic therapies if you will still retrieval and guided Journey that kind of thing and also the food place a big role because darn near every when it comes with dealing with some issues including anxiety and depression which can be assisted greatly through food in addition to working with someone who has a good handle through the inner deeper layers of the psyche and so that is really feel like I’m in my Dharma that has been wonderful and then I do sessions just one on one therapy sessions with people usually buy a Skype cuz everyone’s all over the place these days any of it but I do know and I should say also been I have there is a book coming out in April called psychedelic Mysteries of the feminine creativity ecstasy and healing and so that is a compilation of writings from different women in a few man but mostly women and so I was approached a couple of years ago by the editors were in London to contribute a chapter so I wrote a chapter on the reclaiming the mod that the Medicine Woman for the modern times because we had Michael Pollan who did a fabulous job with his book oh yeah your mind yeah that came out last May and now we got the ladies coming so yeah awesome I’m so glad to hear that yeah we all have a lot of catching up to do and all your great works and it’s been just absolute honor and pleasure so far to to know I think we’re on maybe the fourth or fifth episode together on this podcast and it’s just always a great ongoing journey in and now I’m having again gone through that course now I really want to say that I feel like the work you’re doing is just absolutely so precious and and really in this in this epic of life on Earth it’s really one of a kind and so I feel like this is a radically transforming a lot and and really helping to very delicately and very thoughtfully kind of thumb unravel some of the more toxic myths and even some of the top even some of the toxic Miss amongst the people who are trying to do their best to be holistic and end Progressive and forward-thinking and and it’s really young some of the subjects that are taboo talking about kind of reclaiming ancestral diet sand and seeing Beyond some of the really I would say they’re they’re like fad fad diets and maybe one less thing I’ll say before before asking you to kind of start out start us off with them you know a an exploration of where we’re at with the modern diet and ships we can be making their it’s just it’s been it’s been coming to me that no Animal product diets even the raw diet for example these when I think about what I think is the fact that there really isn’t an indigenous society that hold that has evolved in a natural environment to have these ideals and to have these limitations on what is food and whatnot food and what is ethical eating was not ethical eating and I know we’re so far most of us from from that we’re both of the food chain in a in a sustainable way and I get it why people want to almost do like a hunger strike almost it’s a protest movement when I get it and I’ve been a part of it but what I feel like is maybe you overlooked is the notion that we like to say decolonize your mind decolonize this and that but but if we if we actually applied decolonize your your kitchen and in your pantry you know then we’re going to be talking about where did these ideas what is the timeline of some of these have some of these fad diets and what what do we need to know sort of to decode and and and so yeah you you you’ve already been the Catalyst to have the deepest most the bridge to some of the ancestral diet material has been literally rebuilding and restructuring me to the DNA level since since that kind of came down to the Grapevine and so want to give you plenty of time now to just help us understand the dead stuff out of your research there and yeah let’s to have you just go on about it I will say first of all that you know I grew up in Toronto Canada and my parents new zero about you know nutritionally dense foods no one to really right because they only know knew what they were taught and that is true today as well fortunately and the dominant Narrative of course is pushed by commercial interests that are profiting greatly on our suffering and so so I have to stay though I just unnaturally preferred just the more I probably nutrient-dense foods and so even like we don’t we were raised on breakfast area which thank God I never gave to my two grown daughters and and so I would choose through the best of the worst I remember choosing Special K / Frosted Flakes I just worked out better in anyway and I loved I loved me I love Stoops enough bacon hated liver shunt like now but anyway my mom is some traditional Irish meat and potatoes kind of cook and and not to creative there and then I remember when we moved to the states and I started I was long distance running and I ran one morning past was in this little town past the shop and had a big carrot dangling out the front of the store and it turned out it was a health food store and I never been in one before and I made a mental note of that says early in the morning and then I went back there later and and just discuss peanut butter with oil on top of all this cool stuff and I was I just felt like right at home and and I remember a 16 saving my babies babies babysitting money for a juicer because it did not I mean we didn’t have veganism Ernie that at that time I just wanted to let you know juice vegetables cuz it’s very good for you and I still do it today in any case I never dieted I was always super athletic I never had a problem with weight but I just never bought the whole back then I graduated high school and 81 okay just give me my gym 50 almost 56 and so I never bought into the whole low-fat no-fat deal because I was like with no butter like hell no no way they can’t do that and I’m so grateful because now we are seeing the detrimental effect this has had on people you know any people back then having egg white omelets and just white meat on the chicken no skin like it was just such an awful way to eat and an inn really harmed people healthwise and and so I just I would say by the way I like to eat and I’ve eaten this way for years now if I just call it as close to the farm as possible and I’ll tell you I a number of years ago I did Fast and the fast lasted first me like hen J’s to be probably 13 years ago and I was just reading different books cuz I’m an autodidact and so I love to research that’s how I spend my time reading and researching and end and learning and that’s when I found out about Vic the vegan diet and I was reading this one but cannot. Will that food looks good maybe I’ll break my fast with that try that for a little bit which I did and I did the raw vegan sing for almost a year and so I can speak to it I mean I went down to dr. Gabriel cousens place and I met and I was eating all the superfoods and I was alright avocado cacao loaded with a sweetheart but now I am a Celtic Woman mostly Scottish and Irish and my people did not they were not be concerned so what happened was after maybe eight or nine months of that my body was screaming for me but at that point I was like oh no I’m and I and this is something we as humans it’s just seems to be human nature you know we can get 40 dogmatic and she identified with our belief systems and so that lasts another couple months and then I actually had signed up for a course in the Seattle area with the MTA the nutritional Therapy Association and it was like a turd 11 month course was very very in-depth with a beautiful thing was was based on the work of dr. Weston a price who was a dentist out of Cleveland in the twenties and he grew up in a farm and he was quite robust healthy guy and he noticed more and more in the 20s if they progressed more patients coming in with cavities like a lot of cavities and he noticed that their jaws were becoming more narrow so they couldn’t accommodate the teeth and he was one of these wise fellows who put two and two together and just I think this might have to do with all this new food we’re eating because of that food was shifting markedly to the foods of Commerce essentially Factory Foods sweetened condensed milk a lot more white flower a lot more white sugar and it was affecting People’s Health and so he had I think it was a nephew who weather Philly ated with National Geographic I think of the time in and he was saying listen you should study some of these healthy cultures around the world that are still intact because Anthropologist have been digging up skulls with these beautifully form Jaws perfect teeth like these people were extraordinary healthy and and were made to think by the way that the Ancients were they didn’t live past 25 and they were so unhealthy and and nothing could be further from the truth and it obviously would depend on where you were located and what was going on at the time and I will say that the Roman scholar Plutarch when he came upon the British Isles he wrote those British Islanders don’t show their age till they’re a hundred and twenty now he wasn’t making a joke he was commenting on the extraordinary help with these people and so in many parts of the world crafting a hundred was no big deal you know people were very vigorous so in any case I started this nutritional Therapy Association and and by then I was just beside myself like I really needed to break the veganism and and and I had also gone to assert conventional doctor I don’t call them traditional doctors cuz they’re not you know conventional medicine is not traditional medicine it’s not the winter conventional doctor and I got all the tests in my I think my my lipids were like way way way down my cholesterol was way down and when it whatever and I was so proud of it at the time and then the teachers were like you know you could have a stroke with numbers like that and and you need nutrition in you cuz I went out just an animated how’s your sex life not to get overly personal benefits fine and they were like really fine they’re like do you know what you need cholesterol for it if you need it for a fully functioning hormonal function including your your sex hormones like everything and and so it was there that I learned the importance of these traditional foods which had been abandoned over the course of the 20th century in favor of all of these newfangled foods which were being pushed through all of these commercials and and an advertising to our grandmas and great-grandma’s and you know so that no self-respecting woman would would bake a cake from scratch anymore you know she should get Betty Crocker cake mix and all this garbage that they were they were imposing on people and so so I started with bone broth and then I slowly started no back into having actual meat and then I’ll tell you I went through it. Where I was just craving steak remember talking my teacher and he said look have it every night because it’s not like you’re craving brownies you know you’re craving steak there’s something in that that your body is crying for other so you don’t listen to start listening to your body and this is something that few people do today is actually listen to the signs from from their body and so what dr. Weston Price did was he took 10 years in the 1930s and he went all around the world to 14 different healthy cultures and he wanted to see what they were eating and end by the way his face is starting out was he wanted to find he thought maybe vegetarianism was the way to go and and so he want with very curious to see what these people were eating and it turned out that all 14 of these cultures they all consumed some form of animal protein even if it was in Sex and they also consume a lot of animal fat in fact ten times more fat soluble vitamins have of saturated animal fat than Americans in the 1930s and so that ratio would be far higher today and so he has a dentist he was looking at their teeth because the teeth will reveal what’s going on with the rest of the bone structure within the body and for the first culture you study study was the switch in the Swiss in the lotion tell Valley of Switzerland and they lived within this mountain range and they could get in and out but that’s where they lived and by the way tuberculosis was ravaging Europe at the time including Switzerland and people would leave that that community and go into Zurich and whatnot they return back having been exposed in single person contracted TB and he had to really search before he found anything even close to what could be a cavity the children with this was an early spring they were playing Barefoot with short sleeves in icy cold streams like they were vigorously healthy and their diet consisted of raw raw cream Robert and beautiful leavened sourdough bread which meant it’s bread that had been fermented overtime so it’s very digestible of course they would have some lamb beef and then vegetables you know in the summer when they could get them in fairies and what not and they were just incredible Health in fact they had a sleep from that Valley who would compete in these big big olympic-style competitions and those guys would always win nowadays they have athlete’s carbo load but back then those athletes would load up on Raw cream and so they were just an impeccable health and not only that they were happy and then he went to the gaels on the Isle of Lewis and and that was they were seafaring and there you know their life was rough I mean and they could cook the only thing they could grow with oats and anyway those people were in vigorous health and they consumed a lot of fish and cod liver oil and oatcakes and what not and then he went to the Philippines and he went to all these other cultures these beautiful people and they took photographs and he sent samples of their food back home to the laboratory to be tested so he wrote home extraordinary book called nutrition and physical degeneration and you can see for yourself and beautiful jaw structure of these people the beautiful teeth and a happiness on their face this is something that really he was not expecting was how incredibly happy these people were and he would ask them if they had any problems with their their adolescents in and they just looked at him like he had to have it out like no they didn’t have those issues now something he noticed noticed was this was a time when Bridges and roads were being built and so people would leave their trishul communities and I would enter quote-unquote civilized civilized World eating the foods of modern civilization and then they would have children and it would be evident in the Next Generation and those children would have the job would be narrow so couldn’t accommodate the teeth and so and though what he did see also is when when certain people would then return to their communities if they had some kind of illness they were able to turn it around through adopting once again their traditional food so that’s actually very good news for us because the body is Earth is a body you know we we have a body that it’s the whole thing as a metaphor for for the Earth and our gut microbiome is like the soil of our Earth and it it needs to be teeming with really healthy bacteria so so yeah so so I really I I I so admire doctor price and and Back N D I thought maybe it was the eighties a woman named Sally Fallon discovered his work and eventually she put together the Weston A price foundation and I have Met Sally Fallon a number of times I’ve had dinner with her she is a true Elder she is a wise woman and she she put together a book called nourishing traditions and this book has its it’s a compilation of all of these traditional recipes it’s an amazing book and do you know what she could not get a publisher no publisher would touch it with you do my own little publishing firm and I’ll do it that way and she did and I got her book has sold well over a million maybe it’s a million-and-a-half coffees at this point and now of course you know they’re willing her and they want to publish your book and she was like nothing and Associates really put yourself out there to put the word out because also what traditional communities the world over paid great attention to in addition to these wonderful foods that were passed down was it was very important when a couple came together before they got pregnant that they had certain foods and then certainly when the woman was pregnant there were certain foods that she was to eat in fact I think it was in the Philippines there was a tribe and Wendy women when a woman became pregnant there were two men assigned to her and their whole job was to get and their boat and go to a certain area where they would fish for certain kind of fish and dr. I sent that back and it was it’s it’s very high in fat very very high in in in fact and end so that you know made for a very healthy developing fetus and ultimately very healthy baby and then and then of course you know they breastfed and there were important foods that were fed to the baby including cod liver oil which a lot of this stuff just you know it when we had World War II came about a lot of our newfangled Foods were developed by the military during World War II and then put out to the public afterwards and at the you know they’re just as we know Peter garbage and and then people stop giving their children cod liver oil my mom I called liver she said all cod liver oil all the way up till she went to college and and so it was easy quite common So I myself I’ll tell you like cuz I see that it’s a commercial world and essentially it’s an it’s a it’s an overlay on top of the Living World of Nature and traditions that have served Earth people for Millennia until all of a sudden they’re told note you want to have this this is better for you and you don’t want to have that and so I look too I look too tradition I look to the Ancients I and I call these Foods grandmother wisdom foods and end and one thing that price discovered was bio individuality in other words what works for my people is not going to necessarily work for someone in the Philippines you know that they consume a lot of fish and tropical fruits in the vegetable in a look at the different diet and other words and and so this is something to pay attention to so whatever your cultural heritage is I recommend taking a good hard look at go back a few generations and then see what were your people traditionally eating and chances are those foods will serve you very well will something else that people consumed every day all around the world in all various forms were ferments so Refrigeration is very new and it’s a great convenience but it’s it’s hampered our health because back then in order to preserve food you had to fermented and so of course you know you had the the krauts all manner of different fermented vegetables will be back in the day you had need which was fermented you a tale which was fermented people drank a lot of fermented Beverages and and they would spy cam with different medicinal herbs and and then okay the fermented vegetables cultured Dairy you know these people who say oh you know dairy cows are know whatever milk is for baby cows people their cultures including my own you know who kept cows they kept sheep and goats or camels were milk you know milk is very very ancient and something that I drink now and I turn all my retreat clients on cuz I think it is probably the one of the most healing foods known is raw milk kefir and that hails from the Caucasus region of Russia and the kefir grains are probiotic there a mix of probiotics and beneficial yeast no one knows how they came to be the people of the caucus regions call them a gift from Allah and they would put those in cows milk or goat’s milk and they would be in a leather bag and and and and they would you know give it a shake and and and drink that in the grain speed off the sugars in the milk and then they key for the milk so it’s like a kind of liquidity yogurt it is fantastic for you in fact yogurt itself will have five or six different bacterial strains in it great stuff homemade kefir will have 50 to 60 different bacterial strain so we’re talkin you know trillions are billions of of of of bacteria and are beneficial that is amazing for your God and the Caucasian people were drinking kefir for over twelve hundred years and they are still drinking it today so again you know I’m so stoked hearing you say this in in something else it’s just it’s hitting me right now is that all of this very almost alchemical food science and artisanship was going on far before the invention of the microscope and before the micro-biology revolution in science and so in all of your studies if you don’t mind me kind of going on a sidebar here I just would love to know what you feel like it’s a good night you know and I have any Amazon the people that iOS Cairo shamans cure and arrows will say that the plants told them which plants to put together to make this concoction and there was a who is it was a transmission of Knowledge from the forest itself to help the people and I’m wondering if you could what do you think the epistemology is of this elaborate micro black biological science way before science even invented the microscope to even know right I mean there was still so this is kind of a figure this out where did this come from was it observation of animals or was it just naturally it tasted better cuz certain things were a little busier if you left them out a while if he well it was a course they observed animals and that would tell them you know what what fruits were and in vegetables went out where poisonous what were edible and also they would watch sick animals and what did the sick animals gravitate to herbs and that kind of thing so they learned a lot from observation and and then yeah and then he just things were passed down and down and down and God knows where they originated from but but but we have to remember is he never made you think that the Ancients were so backwards you know and and in fact the ancient Celts her are portrayed as you know practically caveman and yet the Neolithic people creative these extraordinary Stone circles that that were places at like they were Master astronomers you know they and they knew how to store wet when and where the eclipse Sun would be in in relative to assert how they position with stones and in these people were they were they were brilliant they were brilliant they were fully dialed in they were fully connected to the cycles of nature you know where we are I really don’t think we have this will be a very whatever it will be but I just I don’t think we’ve necessarily come that far because we’ve sacrificed so much wisdom and look at the state the deplorable State on our planet now with the pollution and the just egregious suffering of humanity and the animal kingdom everything on so so so many levels and so you know we really things went horribly wrong I think with when the whole Scientific Revolution came about so that when that happened so many ancient wisdoms were just simply dismissed in favor of this whole new way this whole is rational mindset and and and I’m all about logic and reason don’t get me wrong cuz I don’t see enough of that playing out today but this word hyper rationalism and Andrea Lee you know this is just what do you call it it’s like they’ve just dismissed God altogether God got us whatever that is sourced Creator right and and and we have done this at our Peril and ultimately I see nature and we are nature as the brass the expression of the master architect which has a hold of god goddess for Hurst annaho and head that lives in every living thing and and nature has provided us with everything we need to grow the way we’re supposed to develop the way we’re supposed to develop you know our bone structure everything our hair our health and and you know how to be happy and any other thing to you know I’ll say real quick when Christ was noticing the narrowing of the Jaws you’ll see that a lot nowadays and no one thinks twice about oh yeah I had to get braces or my kids had to get braces and what they don’t realize is that nutritional deficiency so that the jaw itself was not able to develop properly to accommodate all those teeth which is what’s to do and the same with you no hips we see you know she’s narrowing of the hips and in women having a lot of trouble and childbirth will also I mean look at the fertility rates have gone way down and there’s a lot of factors there and you and I can talk for 5 hours on all of that but we’re going to just focus on the food right now and end and also the state of depression and anxiety it’s just a roof and so my retreat client I just recently worked with I I mean a number of people come to me and they’re dealing with anxiety and depression and and these are people who are now I would call them Progressive in that they either have just recently got off those those damn antidepressant antianxiety square or their weaning themselves off you know and I explained to them look we have to heal your gut because there’s a neural Highway between the gut brain and when it got is corrupted in all of our guts or corruption and the guy becomes corrupted the microbiome becomes corrupted through all the sugar and the antibiotics right and then of course the stress and all of that and then just a bad food and and most people are not eating any kind of fermented food you know and so there’s nothing feeding the gut microbiome so healthy gut bacteria is roughly like 80% beneficial bacteria to 20% we’ll just call it bad bacteria it right for all intents and purposes and so as soon as it gets out of balance be bad bacteria is opportunistic and so it just floods the area and it starts to wreak havoc and then interesting ly it takes the good back or the beneficial bacteria longer to kind of come back then the bad bacteria and I just think of that Axiom of alchemy as within so without I look at our world so somehow you know things got out of balance somehow and and these opportunist who are I mean I just see our entire world leader all of them as a crime syndicate you know they’ve taken over entirely you know and and and so and so and so the more people become healthy it’s going to benefit the the Consciousness is going to benefit our mind are the ability to you no feel stable and to reason and smoke with you no Solutions rather than being in this constant state of stress and fear and anxiety you know which so many people are but in any case so this person who came last week was dealing with grief from the loss of a parent the death of the parent and also you know crippling anxiety and depression and gone off those meds finally power to this person and and so I turned them on to all of this food and I turn them on to the gaps protocol Gap stands for gut and psychology syndrome and that was developed by a Russian neurosurgeon named dr. Natasha Campbell McBride and I think of her as just a Russian Shaman s she is one of my heroes and Annie Oakley runs the women’s Visionary Congress once said if you want to change the world throw a better party and I love okay dr. Natasha Campbell McBride is a perfect example that she’s throwing a better party so what happen to her if she move to the UK and one of her young son’s got vaccinated and develop autism and so she knew. Vaccine with the Catalyst but she asked the question why though do you know more and more these days babies develop autism after these vaccines the others jumped what’s really going on and she said she exhausted her profession should named we have nothing to offer these children and of course she’s right and then she started exploring the gut cuz she’s a neurosurgeon the gut-brain connection and she thought you know the food is changed so much and in Russia we Libras and you know bostick’s kind of thing and she she started researching out and she started changing her young Sons diet so she took out the white flower and get whatever he was eating and she put him on bra because the college in the gelatin in the bra will will heal the gut lining the gut lining is very similar to the skin and so healing that and then introducing these ferments very slowly and she healed his gut it’s much easier when they’re younger the younger you know he gets them the better and by God kiss cured of autism and so then she started sharing this with her patients and so you can imagine all these people flocking to her and then what she did also find it that many families would adopt the protocol to support the child and then started realizing that the symptoms from different autoimmune disorders were disappearing altogether because they were healing their guts and and so then she wrote a book called out and psychology syndrome and then there is a wonderful book that I have my clients to who I feel really could use this by off and give it to them called the heal your gut Cookbook by Hilary Boynton and I love that book dr. McBride wrote the forward for that and then it’s got beautiful glossy color photos and it goes step by step by step here’s what you can eat here here’s some you know he was some recipes you know to do this it just makes it so easy to do and and so I have worked with a number of people who I put on this protocol and they have thrived I mean they’ve turned around things amazing I work for the woman I still work with her I’ve been working there for 2 years now she had rheumatoid arthritis for 27 years she contracted it when she was 18 or developed dementia and so she tried absolutely everything I unfortunately did the conventional medical Roots a lot of drugs and I said look let’s just chill your. You know that’s all I care about and after 6 weeks she started with the introductory diet which is the most restrictive and it’s restricted because you’re essentially taking your gut and it’s like a damaged little baby and you’re just saying alright we’re going to go really easy on you this would be really easy to digest because what you’re doing is you’re giving your gut the opportunity to heal and nature can bounce back she can bounce back from really anything but she needs the opportunity to heal right to get to stop washing her with all the poisons and after 6 weeks she contacted me and she said okay you just need to know that my pain and swelling of gone from a 12 out of 10 to a two and and she’s one of these people who will follow to the letter and a few months after that she was playing tennis and she won a tennis tournament and and so and then her skin was beautiful she’s like it’s ridiculous on some pericing like everyone’s like what do you put on your skin and she is like it’s not what I put on my yes she is she swears by this and and I mean I have more stories like that and I won’t go into all of them but I have seen this first hand and so you know that’s why I’m like I’m not interested in what the you know whatever the media has to say I’m sure as hell not interested in what the Hino conventional medicine has to say because those guys have zero understanding of nutrition and then the conventionally train nutritionist have been trained in schools that were funded by these major multinational corporations that want them you know selling all the stuff and if you go on these websites like the American Heart Association and American diabetic Association and you see the food they’re recommending it takes my breath away it’s so disgusting it’s just deplorable so so that’s why I look to the traditional to be anxious cuz they they weren’t trying to sell you anything that’s just how they ate I’ve been under on the Divine masculine side of my personal development I’ve been getting very deep into the survivalist movement and there is powerful thought leaders in that movement that are a really promoting and in a positive and empowered way the ketogenic and paleo certain parameters and Primal parameters on diet and a lot of interesting insights her or coming up from that and if I could I’ll just share a few things that you can bend riff off of the kind of I’ll bring it in a little bit personal for me for a moment and say that I’m probably maybe I can see exactly what the hell with it the start date was but I I had to I do landscaping and I’m in the LA climate and I guess it was I guess it was last summer so I guess about six months now where I finally had my hitting bottom with with to my wish is a diet with too much sugar when I wasn’t I was thinking I was doing mostly organic and mostly is doing trail mix and dry food sand and felt that my sugar sources were cleaner and then than most and certainly avoiding processed foods however it was a lot of dehydrated raisins and banana chips and things where he was super concentrating the sugars and really just continually antagonizing my gut and continually in flaming me and and also causing just like almost it’s just super charging super powering that that psychological element that anxiety and the PTSD I felt like it was it was just so bloated with the energy that was coming from too many sugars coming into my system and it really manifested on the surface of like fungus growing on my hands and my feet cuz I was working in the Sun and working in boots and gloves and it was just like it was all over my hands and my feet I had to continue working cuz I didn’t I couldn’t just quit my job I did take a couple weeks off but that wasn’t enough so I had to just work without gloves and bitterly work without shoes so how is the monkey Garden there for a few weeks there until like they started to dry up and and miraculously I was I was at that time dating a woman who had some extra money and she was about to go on this total sugar Purge diet and and I was of course trying to impress her you know us as I can I’ll join you let’s do this then hi and lo and behold the greatest gift is meeting her was that I stuck with it and and I stopped eating the dried fruits and I started to move just Stevia and no forms of Sugar Bay sweeteners and then now it’s a you know about six months later and and and the most most done chilling and invigorating effect has been really seeing this deflation of neurotic tendencies that the thought forms that would be causing anxiety or I mean I don’t consider myself to be depressed but certainly it’s like the thought forms have to feed on you like parasites and they’re not just feeding on some amorphous energetic kind of Wu thing they’re actually I’m realizing they’re feeding on the sugar that you’re that you’re pumping into your mouth and so if I I came up with this tweet I put it on Twitter do you know not too long ago I said what’s worse demonizing sugar or sugar raising demons and still I love to hear what you think about that notion there well the thing is you know we we’ve had sugar before white cane sugar and that was in the form of Honey another words Nature has provided that for us not that you overdo the honey but raw honey is teeming with enzymes and it’s a medicinal as well and and so that’s the sweetener that I I like and I also I also like real maple syrup and and I’ll have that once a week when I retrieve clients cuz I always make one of the breakfast is sourdough pancakes with with real maple syrup they also put a Big Blob of gorgeous yogurt on top of that whole milk yogurt so the what is the beneficial bacteria before the sugar goes and feeds all the negative ones is that in my understanding that when I would make my young girls breakfast for they go to school by the way I wish I’d homeschooled I didn’t know that back then but anyway I would never gave him breakfast cereal and pasteurized milk and all that crap I would always make them eggs and toast with lots of butter or I do in a french toast which is dipped in the egg and then and then I would put whipped cream on that but like homemade whipped cream it was no sweetener or just below the Nilla anyway so they always had this wonderful breakfast that had a good amount protein and fat and carbohydrate right so so that they could the fat would calm them and they could think through the day and and what’s happening with these children is there eating these breakfast made of of sugar like just like when you were sharing all those dried fruit that you reading in the trail mix and the Granola it’s all sugar and so that it turns to sugar in the body and these children are not getting nutrient-dense Foods in the morning and then and then they get to school there climbing the walls and of course they can also what could be more unnatural than you know signing a child to us you know Ed Sheeran add a task in a square room indoors for 7 hours to know and then they and then they complain when especially the young boys just want to jump around and have a good time and you know like they belong outside in the fields freebasing sucrose and being forced to in a straitjacket of these people in the schools and they’re pressuring the parents to drug their children which is so beyond immoral and first of all and an even these days psychiatrist and psychotherapist you are also handing these drugs out like their candy and by the way no one’s done any brain scans now that it’s just based on an opinion and since when do teachers since when do they have that kind of knowledge to be able to determine you know that you are 7 year old needs a brain damage and ultimately drug you know like it’s just it’s it’s astonishing when really ultimately these kids are nutritionally they’re just starve nutritionally and and it makes a big difference when you feed them these these these Foods is nutritionally dense foods and raw milk especially and you see me you spoke of eczema that’s so common with these children because also pasteurized milk has been number 1 allergen that’s because pasteurized milk is not milk it Amin chemically it’s not and in so it’s a very difficult to digest it is not the same as as your raw milk from obviously obviously healthy cows raised on pasture and by the way cows raised on pasture enough for a farmer who’s producing raw milk or health either outside a good at healthy cow live 26 27 years a commercial dairy cow will live maybe 5 and and I will say also as someone who is attritional food person I am very careful where I Source my meet my favorite favorite place in the whole world is the farmers market I love going to the farmers market I know my Farmers by name I know where meat comes from I’ve been to two of the Farms where it’s produced I’ve seen those animals out on pasture where they belong you know how they’re slaughtered in this is all done on the up-and-up commercial farming is not farming it is it is a factory and it is deplorable and you know it’s interesting because Karl Marx was the first one to reduce animals from this place of you know just really the sacred how they were taken care of down to he called them units of measure and I will say for those out there who think whatever collectivism communism whatever is such a great saying it is a machine culture you are a cog in the wheel there is no room for the individual so it’s that’s very much in a box and and I just thought that I did not know that and and I thought that was very poignant units of measure that that’s disgusting so if machine culture ultimately were enough machine or a factory culture and this is why people are not thriving and cuz this is not how we’re supposed to let we’re not meant to be corporate wage slaves and commute up to 2 hours you know sometimes each wet I mean like it’s amazing you know no time spent in nature anymore or with each other really yeah you know I actually did like but what that brings to mind for me is going back years to Anthropologie my anthropology track in college it was there was a an essay believe I’m maybe I maybe forgetting the name but I think it was one of the one of the the highly respected sort of catalyst for her primitivism I think was Marvin Harrison or one of the other kind of groundbreaking Folks at the time they were saying help with a concept that called Energy Gates and looking at the thesaurus stages of patriarchal Empires and how and Jared Diamond do the same kind of similar analysis about how granaries is what facilitated conquest and the coaches that did not have that had you know tropical spoiling fruits and vegetables that could not be stored for indefinitely if it was toward right you know the show is so good that the culturing of these domestic cats and their ability to feed armies and marching armies off of his dried wheat berries and he’s dried grains that was really what what time do or what we’re living in and obviously the legacy of the conquest of those who figured out how to make these these calorie pellets that were that wouldn’t spoil and and they would be able to ferment them and make beer and so the contaminated water they could drink beer and have less deaths from water contamination cuz it was more. If you will at that point those to fix this warrant about the machine this goes back thousands of years to the the war machines and we’re still living in that Legacy in the Cheerios go in and the soy milk go in one in and the diaper rashes out the other end what do you say to that 95% maybe it’s 98% of the soil all the so I produced is GMO but still he also was never ever meant to be Eaton ingested in the way it is I mean it’s an absolutely everything be quiet cuz it’s a very cheap filler and see if they can seduce as soon as thinking it’s this health healthy alternative to milk or whatever then people will buy it cuz they’ll just believe it but in Asian countries so it was fermented so she could leave made into Tempe and soy sauce tamari. Could that kind of thing but but tofu itself was you know you’d have it in small amounts but it’s an absolute everything as is corn and so and end their there they’re cheap fillers and they are marketed as being healthy and so yeah I mean it and also so I contain is it it’s a goitrogen so it affects the thyroid negatively also I believe phytoestrogens as well so too much soy and John is not necessary no it’s not good for our boys so it’s not it’s not healthy it’s not something I would give to my children and and then you have to watch the almond milk because the Almond industry in this happened a number of years ago now they are spraying all of these almonds in California with a few against that has been banned in in Canada and Europe but for some reason it seems to be perfectly acceptable for all of us here and so all that almonds milk that you are these people are drinking is not necessarily so healthy either because I mean this is just a lot of stuff is dangerous that they spray the stuff with you know how food is more clients Works in health food store and she said oh my God Shana shouldn’t I look around everything’s in a box you know and shipped all over from hell and gone by the way and you know a lot of it is just it’s just marketing it just marketing and so I I just for anyone who this resonates with I I say eat as close to the farm as possible and if you can’t grow your food and go to the farmers market if you can get to a farmers market you don’t remember I spoke at a conference in Milwaukee and too windy was there he is an amazing Elder and he talks a lot about mushrooms he does very high dose mushrooms but he was talking about he lives in Detroit and that there is an extraordinary group of people there where he said you know what we do with empty lots in Rich Roy and Detroit kill them so there’s this whole Urban farming Community it’s cropping up and I know it’s in you know Detroit and other areas as well for people aren’t like inner cities are growing food this is the thing you know I think we can have heaven on Earth I really think we are in the garden with a beast or parasite in the guard him right now but we are in the garden and there is opportunity everywhere truly for like turning lemons into lemonade essentially and and you know even just growing herbs in pots like just whatever you can do and and also if you have a garden and but it’s small and he can actually grow food and put native flowers in there because the pollinators need that like you’re so so much we can do to support the Earth and and and you know support ourselves with with good food the farmers markets are fantastic just fantastic mean I I love I love knowing my Farmers be great to get into just some very simple practical steps I know one thing that resonates with me is that the notion that you should if you are if you are going to go to the supermarket shop on the outer ring of the store and you should be allowed to everything on the Isles but you know there’s the the produce the dairy the fish the meat and and that’s all the disorder refrigerated in and refresh sort of stock of the outer ring of all the supermarkets by Design and then anything on those not I guess not everything because there are oils and there are there are fermented pickles and whatnot of course crowds that are that are in the center aisles but but do you want to talk about some yes and more practical steps if you can take and maybe one of the things that for four people who have newborn babies who are not going to be able to just go to this extreme keto paleo thing this excerpt a macho is a lot of machismo in that world too and I haven’t heard these Macho men talk about feeding babies a keto paleo diet or I don’t know how you would translate into that or how you would recommend you Sally Fallon let me find it here she wrote a book on foods for baby and child like nourishing foods okay I’m just going on Amazon I’m just going to find it the title of this book is book of baby and child care for babies that need formula I mean God with the stuff in the supermarket is is just it’s it’s immoral but there is a recipe for doing a proper you know baby formula if you can’t breastfeed or in addition to Farina when you’re done breastfeeding I mean she’s just got out of everything but it’s all based on traditional principles and and I’d love that she did that because especially new mothers their moms don’t necessarily know any of this and it’s not their fault they just weren’t taught you know and and so they don’t really know where to to look and so this is a really really wonderful resource for for that and then if you can find your way to raw milk for your children this is so so important because it will ensure that your child develops a healthy gut and that means they will be are they will they will not be sick as often as everyone else’s kids and you know there could be stronger they will develop really beautiful teeth and a good jawline you know you you could you could eradicate the need to Anjali to for your child to have braces and it also affects their behavior and their ability to sleep at night I mean there’s so many factors you are what you eat and Epocrates said let food be thy medicine and eye medicine you guys food and you mentioned oils for the supermarket and I will just say be very very careful what you cook your food and so canola oil is a no-go it’s garbage it’s rapeseed even if they called her dad I just watch out for organic because you know the USDA is kind taking that over and I mean Monsanto wants to grow stuff and call it organic for god sakes so just you know and I found like at the farmers market there are some wonderful farmers who they say they don’t have the Organic certification it’s very expensive but they don’t pray at all and yeah yeah well and I love those biodynamic and that’s following the tentative Rudolf Steiner biodynamics. Applying homeopathic remedies since way to the soil to call back the life force in the land and it’s similar to permaculture I mean they really go hand-in-hand nicely he know where the farm is thought of as a single organism and everything’s made on the farm and and I are very much loved the biodynamic way but the good fats to cook with I get lard from the farmers market and then I take it home and I render it myself which means you heat it up in a pan until it melts in and I poured into a glass jar and it turns a beautiful white color and that is again I am Scottish Irish and my people 8 May 8th Pig pay 8 lab band and all of that and so the fat was priced there’s an old expression living off the fat of the land that was good and and so I cook with that because it’s very stable at high temperatures whereas these vegetable oils cannot handle the super high temperatures and so then they’ll basically turn to plastic in your arteries so you’re the good fats are important chicken broth I’ll do like a big 20 quart stock pot of chicken broth and then I put the quart-size mason jars in the freezer and then I’ll make a soup and it’s super simple one of my favorites is Carrot leaking so I just chop everything the carrots and leeks and saute them in coconut oil and then I put them in a pot I put a can of coconut milk in there and then two quarts of my chicken broth and cook it up it’s so delicious it’s rustic I mean I think of this is it’s like rustic peasant food and it’s so simple but the ingredients are beautiful cuz they’re locally-sourced even better again if you got a garden III I can’t grow them in the garden yet you know there’s another something else. Love to hear your thoughts on is it a point was brought up somewhere recently in my digestive podcast and what not and it was just that it’s often overlooked that weird sort of gear now even even meat eaters Among Us are geared to the muscle meat of an animal whereas a traditional diet and not just the sort of stereotypical Native American using every part of the Buffalo or whatever it’s really that the organ meats and all of the other parts of an animal body that would have contained different densities of nutrients have different fat content that were that’s probably the the the bone broth argument is that it’s it’s you’re getting more of those not just the choice cuts of meat however we had that’s not really holistic either right just eating only the muscle Meats ulcer doctor price discovered it is these cultures realized the organ Meats particularly the liver and I used to be anemic and so after I joined the ntai I would get Frozen liver and this is from Skagit River Ranch which is in the state of Washington and they’re amazing and so you know these are healthy cow go get Frozen liver and believe it or not I took me months to sort of get brace myself to do this now I do it no problem I would great the Frozen liver and a great like a tablespoon or two and I put it in a glass and I would put some just tomato veggie juice and they’re just whatever from the store right and then I would just down at I just swallow it and and so because also a lot of these most of these supplements people take your lucky if you get 30 maybe 40% of whatever supposed to be in that supplement and I don’t take supplements except for magnesium and I take a liquid magnesium called remag by dr. Carolyn Dean and that’s because our soils used to be teaming with magnesium and it is in charge of over 800 enzymatic processes within the body I mean Weed Day but we need magnesium and most people are very low on it so I do take liquid magnesium but then the rest of it comes from my my food and so I drank that liver drink like three times a week I did at 4. Months and my anemia is gone all gone so in other words you know that you could take a liver supplement whatever or whoever itself and and it goes and it does it’s it’s magic and it’s raw liver so yeah I mean that were made special ties with the with the organism and disses disses ancient old and then also the fat on the meat is prized and of course it makes food taste better let me ask you this the one of the things from my permaculture studies that is to me the most effective sort of psychic Aikido I don’t have a weapon but but tool for working with the the Burberry the barbarism of some of these ideologies that have been of sprung up and in and really it’s it’s a it’s like when I think about that the fact that you can go out onto a landscape and good luck trying to synthesize proteins and fats by chewing on shrubs and tree branches and grass but if you employee the ruminants and the goats and you know you got this leverage point that is these animals that are designed to just Chomp down Woody material and grassy material and put it through multiple stomachs even and then and then produce the U of these products and it seems to me that the ecological ethics of you know I mean for me I boil it down to create more life and you destroy and your golden so be like about an emic Gardener or permaculture Gardner and integrate all of the levels of the ecosystem and create beautiful habitat where they they don’t even really know that they’re being farmed in oh that’s possible with some of these techniques and and just to to frame it and in terms of the efficiency gains in in working in partnership with with these other animal allies and if we can give them beautiful good lives and not put them in cages and dope him up and drag them up then maybe we can sort of have a little bit of fun Breathing Room you know you’re glad to be speaking what are you what do you think about that my heroes are the farmers like the real farmers and you made me think of Joel salatin who was made pretty famous by Michael Pollan book The Omnivore’s Dilemma angels to Latin calls himself grass farmer said it’s all about the grass and so he raises cattle and chickens and so he said I just follow nature and so the ruminants go out there and they eat the grasses and then then he moves them to a different field he waits a couple of days so that all the little eggs that are in the manure start to hatch then he lets his chickens he brings his chicken it’s into that field and they go crazy and I scratched the cow pies and get that all mixed into the the grass may eat a little buggies and so they produced these extraordinary eggs and and you know so he is he’s really he’s in this beautiful Harmony with the land and he also he produces so much on his farm and he will not ship it long distance he refuses to do to do that which I also really like so yeah he was a great that grow so much beautiful stuff from him I saw Ted Talk and he’s he’s growing him to like doing these he’s he’s he’s trying to stay in body and in as I can use the theatrical performance of different different creatures in the soil biology and it’s it’s just I love I love him to death he’s so great and I remember him saying one time or somewhere I heard about it’s like he actually has to proactively raise the fence posts the fence posts around the property because he’s building soil that’s just growing in height and as long as he’s actually doing like millions of years worth of soil production with this rotational grazing. Yeah Berean of the carbon whatever in the factory farms absolutely there an aberration but these traditional farmers who are the following the older ways they’re doing a good job you know I mean they’re stewarding the land as it should be certain they are this is proper animal husbandry because like it or not I mean we have been consuming animals for very very very long time you know I mean it’s kept us very strong and but but you know if it did the whole Commercial Way of raising these animals to me is is it to me I think it will be a stain on on our culture for a long time to come and and you can tell a lot about what you know of culture by how they treat their animals and it’s not just American culture either you know this is yeah we’re getting at work we’ve covered a lot of thank you so much this really it it has satisfied my desire to get some some really important groundwork laid for the listeners of this podcast in to sort if I’ve been hesitant to sort of Explorer and break down some of these these myths and taboos around. I don’t want to alienate anybody who is very committed to any specific no Animal product diet but I think we all need to just continue the dialogue and something that I would like to I guess a final thought I’d like to to give you some more whatever time you have left to get to talk about it said as I guess I have been rehabilitating myself from nutting as I always say you a sugar and carb obviously like a sort of subconscious addiction and just to serve the ubiquity of it is it’s it’s really starts at 2 to audit the the sugar intake that is not from Whole Living fresh fruits you know mostly the and you look at you start to audit that it’s really it’s for me it’s been it’s been absolutely mortifying and I really feel like we’re in a zombie apocalypse we’re like maybe 90% of the the personality disorder is in a relationship conflict conflict and that just the antagonist in education is cause and I’m seeing it I’m seeing myself Google and dumb just like I’m in this Buddha nature zone now that I’m post extraneous sugar and I’m going to be able to see how people who were just just being pie in and out of of Starbucks drive-thrus they’re going to they’re going into the road rage and they’re going into the office they’re going into like every interaction is so cranked up on this crystal meth sugar caffeine is in the danishes in the muffins and it’s just like you burn it down in a in a Bunsen burner and you just got this free base of Crystal and sugar this whole thing and just like the I am just the other day I was I guess I will be I was being socially open to sugary Foods you know to be to be nice but you know in public and that and it was like okay here’s pizza and ice cream and literally within an hour I felt like I had just drink battery acid I could feel the contrast of like what is going on they send people called a good, because they just ate a you know a brick of carbs and and it’s really you know once you have that contrast it’s a real it’s really it’s a really deep things I don’t know if you have any final thoughts to share about just like a words of words of wisdom about your motive like what what could you say to motivate people to really really look at labels and really question and and understand that it may not say sugar in a may not look like sugar or even taste like sugar but you could be having the most Savory meal and have that sugar be the second ingredient on every sauce out of whatever so how do we close a case on sugar here I know well that’s something I thought was just really great she was saying just like everything you spoke to she said really this is about survival of the wisest so only the wisest are going to survive and I just made the people who are really proactive about you know pudding good nutrient dense foods in their body and staying away from all of that garbage and and I will say that the fermented foods especially like the sauerkraut they start when you start eating fermented foods beet kvass which is fermented beet juice a drink that every morning it’s changes your taste buds so that’s something to consider and also there is a flavor that we no one takes in anymore and that’s bitter so there’s something called Swedish Bitters and and nose would be taken as a digestive Aid before eating and any just take a little bit like in water but it will Swedish bitters with curb your sugar cravings and they will also, you know an upset stomach nausea gas bloating all of that they are bitters are amazing for the digestive system in for the production of hydrochloric acid and no balance your appetite and they will maintain healthy blood sugar levels so Swedish bitters are a great thing to include and also when my retreat clients, we don’t have any sugar being higher week but the food is so satisfying why cuz there’s a lot of good saturated fat in there and so the raw milk kefir is its dreamy creamy so incredibly delicious and I just put a little bit of vanilla in there and it’s so satisfying and there’s something like a comfort food and then the breakfast I make is my leavened sourdough bread that I make toasted slathered with butter beautiful butter kerrygold front of or I get raw butter from an Amish farmer and then I near it with avocado and then I’ll put three or four fried eggs that were stopped by and large and then a huge dollop of sauerkraut and the flavor combination is so amazing everybody freaks on that and I explain to people look you know you have a breakfast like that and then you drive to the office and then everyone’s over at the coffee klatch and they brought in all their chemical cookies and their shite donuts and stuff you’re going to be like oh my God I can’t put anything my stomach I’m not hungry and then you know I have the gorgeous suit that I make in town is so satisfying and then yes it was so when you’re eating is nutrient dense foods your body is satisfied because what do they say we have a country for obese people who are you know their bodies are starving their bodies are starving some nourishment and then people will go in this low-fat no-fat by you know 9 p.m. they’re climbing the walls and it’s thrown open every cabinet door in their kitchen to seeking something cuz their body is Jonesing food I’m telling you will do wonders for your sugar Cravings it’s really really something and yeah I mean to be so addicted to sugar I love sugar and and I would have liked a like I would always get really beautiful chocolate and I would have a stash somewhere and I’ll tell you like I finally went off at completely a year ago when I did a mushroom journey and it was a big journey and I had all these different you know these beautiful beings I just lie in the darkness with my recorder and I Channel and it’s all poetry and one of the things they said was oh and awful sugar their daughter you must be aware another evil we won’t so healthy bodies we do grow and so and so and they haven’t steered me wrong yet it’s back to give me a pack of Lee for almost eight years fine I won’t touch it and I haven’t said yeah that is that is the the most of those the gym I think of this whole this whole episode was what you just shared right there and so yes thank you so much for that and when can we look forward to the Shona home YouTube cooking show and so if you want to learn more about you know how to make raw milk kefir go on YouTube. Just type it if you want to learn how to make beats come up type it into YouTube or sauerkraut there’s so many amazing people out there who had these done these videos of themselves and they’re giving all this great information and it’s free it’s pretty great yeah well hopefully yeah hopefully the is that something you thought about or would you consider doing something like that even if it was just your own program on your own website or something I don’t know I’m also I’m putting together everything now to launch my school which I will launch in April and the school will begin in May of 2020 and it’s just for women right now only because it’s going to be eight women who will travel to my farm four times out of the year and they’ll stay there and I would love to do it for men and women but I just don’t have sort of this be sleeping accommodations quite quite together yet so we’ll start with women and it’s called Daughters of the fairy tree and end so all the traditional food knowledge will be taught and foundational herbalism as well as you know seership Divinity of dousing all kinds of things like that and coupled with I’m going to teach the Trivium and logical fallacies and foundational contract maxims of law because that’s very important as well because people don’t know that so they don’t even know you know they get caught in the arguments that we see playing out and are disgusting media and if people knew wouldn’t ad hominem is you know or an appeal to emotion and they just wouldn’t even entertain those arguments cuz you know there’s there’s no reason to involve there’s no logic involved there just High emotion to get everyone’s knickers in a Twist so yeah and you know I should say real quick before we finish talking about your listeners know I just wanted to say real quickly there I love the herbs and I do herbal infusions daily and there’s an earth called oat straw and it has it’s an old medicinal and there were some studies done there’s a wonderful website it’s called I just just Googled Medical herbalist medical herbalist oat-straw and you’ll get hit this guy’s in Australia or New Zealand but he talks about the oats and he writes in a clinical study in 1968 1969 6 out of 10 chronic opium addicts gave up the drug after treatment with O2 mL of tincture this is oat root tincture three times a day over 27 to 45 days to of the remaining for attics reduce their intake the participants status was maintained on follow-ups 3 to 19 months later and no serious withdrawal symptoms or side effects were noted the doses to milliliters is 3 times a day of tincture made from the hole from the whole plant excluding the root excuse me excuse to this is tincture of of oats and so it’s been fantastic four people to eat to help them get off opioid addiction how many people are addicted to opioids oh hell no skullcap is also Fantastic Four people who are depressed or anxious and and so you can do a tincture with skullcap and so he writes about that as well and there was one thing I was going to share on that as well if I can find it I mean in a terrific you know we’ve got to do our own due diligence we’ve got a really start researching the Alternatives because again Nature has a cure for everything so I’ll just read this real quick isn’t on skullcap wh cook right quote in The Horde sleeplessness it arises under the effort to abstain from the habitual use of opium it is one of the most Trump and reliable agents of the whole Materia Medica by Tony and also soothing the nervous structures it secures that steadiness of action which is followed by quiet sleep and it induces no shades of narcotism neither leaves behind any excitement sensitiveness North Cane Corso its skull cap is also excellent for people endeavoring to get off opioids and it’s it’s in Irving and nervines are you know they’re really good for the nervous system so there is a whole array of choices we have really wonderful for people suffering from anxiety and also depression that will not I’ll bring the liver harmful side effects you know that the these these These are herbs and they’re safe and and so I just wanted to share that as well for anyone cuz some people suffering from that as well and there’s hope for those people you’re not going to read about it in the lamestream media awesome well thank you so much again and I would say that my final thought is that throw a better party through a better potluck and I think that’s said that’s going to be my intention moving forward and so do you want to share your website URL and any other ways to contact so folks can follow up then and get connected and my email is on on there as well Shawna. Home at comcast.net and so shoot me an email and and I always return my my email so I’d love to hear from all of you also great well thank you so much son of this was so much homework to to follow up on and next time I will be at a new better and healthier person after following up on your advice so you have a wonderful rest of your evening and thank you again and be well thank you for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com can cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple that provide ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episode if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com, CA