In this episode I’m joined by Shonagh Home, a high priestess of the sacred mushroom to whom I deeply bow! We have been allies for several years now and this is her second appearance on the show. We discuss cultural transformation, ecology, activism and more from a radical psychedelic shamanic perspective.
She blesses us with two powerful poems, and countless gems of insight with which to break spells, get well and get free!
Shonagh Home is a shamanic therapist, teacher, writer and poet. Her specialized private sessions and retreats are probing and revelatory, assisting clients to break chronic, self-defeating patterns, and move into empowered personal sovereignty. Shonagh is an international public speaker on the subject of visionary shamanic-spirit medicine, a voice for stewardship of the honeybees, and a teacher on the subject of Traditional Foods. She is author of the books, ‘Ix Chel Wisdom: 7 Teachings from the Mayan Sacred Feminine,’ ‘Love and Spirit Medicine,’ ‘Poetic Whispers from the Green Realms,’ and ‘Honeybee Wisdom: A Modern Melissa Speaks.’
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved welcome to Tantra Punk podcast episode number 96 it’s a distinguished honor I have here to be on Skype with Shana home who is one of the top mushroom priestesses is it living on Earth today and it’s been a serious hero enough mine and I deeply bow down to her we’ve been sort of parallel Journeys over the years and we did an interview discussion a few couple years back called shamanic Revolution we talked about her background so you can you can refer to that episode to get caught up on more of her life story and accomplishments M but we’re now just going to kind of roll into updates from what she’s been doing and in her you know sort of college in alchemical cauldron of spiritual intellectual development really sophisticated critique and understanding of what we’re up against and what some skills and tools some tactics we can use on the front lines of the shamanic Revolution to heal and liberate and Empower ourselves in each other and now more than ever I think our medicine is being sought out in your medicine for sure is of the highest quality so if you want to just say a few words what you been up to since we last talked and then I’m sure we’ll have lots of Defense at 2 to about what’s happening show but thank goodness I will say that I put a new book out recently called poetic Whispers from the green realm and I will definitely read some of that poetry and so there’s two chapters I wrote for that book and then there’s 50 some odd poems and so I will say that I never wrote poetry before I start working with the mushroom and I never didn’t and so a couple years after I start working with the mushroom and I think we’re now going on 5 years here poetry started coming to me and so when I started doing a little research you know to write the chapters for this book I discovered that the original poets were the shamans and that poetry NC igenex substances were directly connected to Poetic inspiration and so you know we have the editors of the Norse Traditions is lengthy poetic Mythic story and in there they speak of the Mead which is honey wine which was spiked it would be spiked with medicinal herbs that would be spiked with inebriating herbs and so it was it was said that whoever drinks from which becomes a poet or a scholar and then we have Soma art of India and that was also associated with poetic inspiration and then we have the Oracles of Delphi and DeDona and the delphic Oracle as they would whether they were breathing in the esalen gases that took them into hydrant States or they were actually drinking psychoactive Bundchen’s they would prophesy and poetic hexameter and so it is it’s a kind of meter you know like poetry is is metered know they’ll be no 3 4 lines you know and then there’s stanzas and what not and I mean it can be very intricate in intricate and how the poem is this is created and so you know some of the greatest poets where the The Bard’s from from my people that the Celts and those people studied for 15 years and nothing was written down and and then they were given the title Olam and and so these these folks were they had to memorize something like 20,000 different you know poems and and and and myths and stories and and what not and so an interesting ly something that the that I read in my research that The Bard’s would do is they would go into a very dark kind of Tavern Thai place and and then spend time there until they received poetic inspiration now that’s interesting because there is a practice that you can do to turn on the pie Neil to to turn on your own energy Mt where you stay in Pitch Darkness or you know. Of time whatever it is a few weeks if you let you know what your month or whatever it is and that will you know turn on your your DMT and so anyway I just thought it was very interesting but there is a quote goodbye Barbara tadlock PhD she wrote a book that I highly recommend called the woman in the Shaman’s body and she wrote that quote shamans are Sears oracles and Poets and their artistic language creates a healing path for their patients and and I love I love that cuz I really I realized I live in the spirit of that you know I can I have the ability to communicate I have the ability to write and now it’s results of my work with the mushroom I have the ability to essentially Channel this gorgeous poetry and end so you have come into connection I speak very candidly about this with these Spirit intelligences through my work with seat mushroom and and you know that was you know long known to shamanic people be there earlier paean people or you know the Maya were in Africa where you know you connect with no the plant teacher and or Atwell a tutelary spirit a spirit that will and intelligence that will teach you and and which comes which came first I like to ask the mushroom for the shaman right so Apprentice myself to the mushroom in those beings have been teaching me and so so yes so this just beautiful poetry has been coming force and I’m so now when I work with the mushroom I will you know just have a digital recorder with me and I speak the way I’m speaking you now but it’s totally poetry it’s the beings speaking through and everything Rhymes and it just flows and so a mutual friend of ours came to work with me something that I’m also doing now as I am doing one-on-one Retreats and it’s for 4 days and that person comes and stays in my arm and I feed them and I teach them and we go very very very deep and you know ceremony in the whole deal it sits and it is highly transformative and so this person you and I know came in August and that happened to be over the August full moon and so you know there was one night where ceremony occurred and she was good to go and for the next 2 hours I just whispered into my recorder and and it was the the elves speaking through me and so I I’m starting to speak more candidly about this because really what I see that I am is a fairy Shaman and now I am not talking about Tinkerbell and I am and I’m not talking about the Victorian gossamer Wings little you know sexy Pixies no no no no no no no no the FAE were long known to the Irish and the Scottish people and also you know the Scandinavians and and you know there are tribes in Africa who speak of nature spirits who are are very similar in resemblance to these what they are is there ancient nature intelligences and it’s the thought they were ancestral or that our ancestors you know went to the fairy Realms when they passed and in Ireland they are known as the tuatha de danaan and it’s Friday Donna and was a race of Godlike beings they were very very high magicians and they lived in Ireland for a time until the sons of Mill showed up and there was a battle and and a two-headed on and lost that battle and so they retreated below into the Mounds and and into they were in a living beneath the Earth but there was you know you could communicate with them and so so yeah so I was deeply in connection with these beings as I have been on the on the mushroom in any case then in September I went to Scotland and it was a pilgrimage for me and I save my shackles and went out there and I went to the outer Hebrides Scotland and spent time and ancient stone circles and there with no mushroom and believe I actually had the mushroom but I wasn’t able to use it when I was there I was able to procure it there but I wasn’t able to use it and I thought this is very interesting cuz I knew this was heart of a Acela learning I was receiving that deer you know you don’t have to have it you know you’ve been turned on you know cuz it does change you forever and so and they said the gates you will stand before will open and so I would stand in the circle tonight I just I take my digital recorder with me everywhere cuz I never know when this poetry is going to flow and it just absolutely flowed through me when I was there no mushroom necessary and then when I came home from Scotland I essentially brought what I was told her new mentors home with me and and I was when I would wake up in the morning as I was Awakening they were speaking to me and poetry and so I was bringing my digital recorder to bed with me so that in the morning as the poem came through I could speak it and so I will share because I think this will really speak to you and there is it’s truly beautiful and and I don’t write like this you know but the way they play with words is is quite something and the and the Poetry is deeply encoded and so up I want to read this yeah I think you will you evil quite appreciate this so I called his old Spirits speak and say this is what they said that’s exactly what they fear of that you realize what you’re made of the constructs is a sorcerer spell designed by those who know full well the power of their words of art they can initiate the start of any Trend that they designed to keep the flock they watch in line change will come when mine start opening then the dawn of what you were hoping we’ll and Sue to shift the pace this death march by the human race must be reversed that’s why we’re here deceptions Mists we pledge to clear each of you has been assigned a royal play to realign the threads that we’ve this current hell your actions here will fare quite well to shift the subtle frequencies so more spoke begin to see with inner eye to realize the tricks by those who are disguised as well-known personalities who manipulates the crowd with these lists years is a hologram and we deliver telegram that though the claws have dug in deep and though the masses are asleep eval was made far in the past that it is time we raise our Mast and sail into the stormy sea to raise our great Humanity to Heights once thought and possibly ambitious for such an undertaking yes this has been most painstaking though right now more of you waking this the time we’ve been awaiting see their fear all that surveillance see the One World dark Alliance they are under the impression they’re above divisive action which they spread among the crowd cups divided lost and proud but they cannot control each other they are going to have one mother of a vast Rift all among their Web of Lies that they have strong this tears we’ve been counting on in the meantime spread your song of what can be when hearts are strong and minds are clear to Virgil angst the many who are so confused their precious Souls have being abused and so the magic that you carry isn’t simply airy-fairy this tear has for long been crafted by the lifetimes you’ve and acted now it’s your moment all of you we will give more than a few instructions clever that he’ll use take your folk Beyond this ruse never let your good Hearts waiver in those temples lives the Saviour you awakened ones of light Illuminating this Dark Knight and Gathering wants more to cast a spell you’ve trained for that has vast effects upon this sacred place that’s home to many kinds of race now all the gateways open here’s the moment you’ve been hoping will occur on planet Earth songs were written of this birth that Springs forth from within the mind a realization of the kind that holds the course dramatically when of a sudden people see this thing’s electric think how fast when switch is flipped the light is Cass and everything you didn’t see is now before you quite clearly how many changes coming near Children of the light don’t fear but rather senior gifts with joy and with good wisdom you’ll destroy the spell that captivates the many what you carry Concord anything that they have up their sleeve you simply in your mind conceive of what you were before you came and when you realize you are the same will deers consider that in mind and ancient spell you will unbind the great wand of antiquity is buried where you cannot see where you’ve been taught to look outside and not within where it resides you are ready now to find the Holy Grail within your mind the sacred places you have been hold keys there that remain unseen unless you trained for many lives to cut through Darkness with your knives those sorts of light you hold with Grace look in the mirror at your face look in your eyes that dance there light you a warrior here to fight a battle that is ancient old and now the time stories told when Beauty beings Fair install will once again appear to all and help you dear ones at this time he’d the power of this rhyme for this is just the start of things as people of the fairy rings cast their magic spells around so once more Earthly folk can found a time of peace upon this Earth a time when you are good folk can birth the frequencies of living grace who’s energies will heal this place is so amazing so beautiful I just want to resurrect Jim Hanson to make this into a hole production or has got to be a new wave of children’s books and cartoons and action figures and dolls and roll out I’ve always felt that you were the one to be the wisdom keeper and sort of the the one that those whatever artistic needs that you would like to have a team above the crew built around you to take this type of narration and make it into every form of physical object media format whatever so that it can actually compete and as is memes that mean it’s all it’s all the way in a very detached kind of social scientific way of looking at things I mean whether you know whatever esoteric tradition you followers or not it’s really you want to have wholesome regenerative ecological you know fashion and lifestyle and everything that people just sort of consume I mean it’s just a matter of making a better option available that puts the the less sustainable or desirable options obsolete so I next thing I want to ask you is of the women and the mothers you know who were trying to design a mythology about what’s happening on Earth what do you mean you’re one of them right so I just can only imagine how difficult it would be to be taking responsibility for Parenthood with a shamanic perspective and ecological perspective if you no excetera you know how and how do you how do you translate this into into the kinds of resources and Tool kits that would be needed for new in an entirely new alternative educational system that actually has a I mean like what you could be doing the Waldorf of shamanic K through 12 you know but based on all this stuff I mean I don’t even know you know what’s out there so if that makes any sense as a question you know if this is how do we get the audience to grow for what you’re channeling okay so first of all turn off your TV throw it out I would say be very very careful with media you know there’s so much you know that I know now that I didn’t know when I first had my children right and and it is amazing to think also you know this this how much technology has taken over our lives you know since then and it’s a double-edged sword do you know on one hand you can glean a lot of great information on another thing it’s another and it’s kind of like the wild west cuz there’s a lot of garbage to sort through as well and and it can be very addictive and level up in any case you know I would have done some things very differently you know had I known back then I have two daughters 16 and 19 you know what I know now for so I would not have vaccinated them I know that’s it something if heated debate but I will say that you know he human beings have managed to live on this Earth and pretty harsh conditions you know for a very very very long time and you know with no vaccines and and as someone who knows quite a lot has researched a tremendous amount on on ancestral Foods you know our ancestors were way stronger than we are today we are pretty much a shadow at this point you know of what we used to be you know is physical strength and emotional and mental wherewithal and Clarity and all of that you know so you know the good news is you know we can call that back by embracing Foods we used to eat but you know just good luck trying to find milk if it’s you know illegal in your state blah blah blah but you know so I would not have had my girls vaccinated and I wish I knew about traditional foods you know what I know now back then you know cuz I would have done that differently as well and I would have homeschooled and so I think it is very important to understand you know this is this is about breaking spells and everything that we’ve been told that we’ve been raised under has been you know presented to us and our parents and our grandparents okay by this we’re in a commercial system and and so it controls our education it controls our media you know certain interest within their now there’s the comedian George Carlin does a fantastic feel and this is stand-up comedy and holy shit like this was no joke he’s talking about education and why it will never change and he’s like people you need to understand something right now you know you are owned you are owned and these politicians those are just those are just figureheads put there so that you think you owe me I vote for this guy I have some amount of power here he’s like the real people with the you know the Reigns of Power are hidden they’re not out there they’re not in your gossip magazines and what not and they own everything they own the land you live on that you know they they put together the institutions and this and this and this and and so it’s a very important to to really start to take a wide view and start to see this the system for what it is and and start to say okay you know what I am no longer going to you don’t give Credence to you know what the FDA says or the CDC or you know what whatever and it doesn’t matter who becomes president you know all these people crying cuz Hillary didn’t win she’s a disgusting Pig so and so’s Trump okay look essentially the Clinton crime family didn’t win the Trump crime family won this is a criminal Syndicate and also divide and conquer goes back to Rome and Beyond look how polarized we are ban look how polarized we are oh my God and God forbid oh my God anyone say oh yeah you know I actually do like you know that one thing Trump is doing all my God people will jump all over that person right and I just been sitting back looking watching back and forth back and forth going people this is the oldest trick so they keep the silly mughals fighting among themselves whether it’s pro-choice or pro-life or republican Democrat liberal conservative as always two sides there’s never a third is there it’s just always to fight fight fight you know and that’s why I don’t I don’t go into the two end of the feminist vote either I’m like nope I’m not going there I’m not feminist I’m not I say we all we all need to respect each other and treat each other well and raise our children that way I mean the golden rule is pretty easy to understand you know you treat others the way you yourself would be treated and at the same time don’t be a fool you know because there are a lot of bad people out there as well but anyway I think I’m going off his attention here but in any case so yeah so taking that step back and starting to see the constructs for what it is and realize something everybody that you know we have lost our mythology we have lost our tribes we have lost connection to our old gods and goddesses you know what I think of the Scottish people I mostly Scottish you know there was a huge battle that the Scots my people fought in the 1700s they fought you know the Brits who wear whatever controlled by Rome or whatever the deal with that this is God’s got their asses handed to them on a platter with a very bloody battle and they just massacred that man in that after that battle so much was lost in that culture and then the Scots were not allowed to wear their Clan Kilts their tartans or something like 56 years if they were caught they were sent out of the country or punished severely so you know what that’s so in other words and so here we are in this Melting Pot which were told oh yeah let’s Embrace diversity everybody you know what it is it’s just putting us all into a corporate sameness and so everybody is losing their culture I don’t care if you’re Chinese or you know American Indian Scottish or what we’re all you know losing touch and so then and then so when you do that when you do that to a people then essentially the government think your will be your new god listen to us and we will create the institutions will create the education will create the media and and I’m not setting to Media is a weapon television the reason why I don’t have a television and I don’t want you know what I can’t I can’t even watch movies anymore because I can see the social engineering and so this is sorcery sorcery is manipulation and so television you’re telling a vision and then what are you watching on the television program and then interesting Lee what do you do what do you change to watch a different program to channel okay and then media is too short for a medium a medium another thing for a medium bring through you know Spirit entities and what not and so this medium is bringing through you know these programs and of course you go into a trance just like a medium does go into a light trance makes you very suggestive and then all sorts of programming and all of those family fun shows and even those clever shows you think are soaked you know I can’t even think of the Grey’s Anatomy and all that horseshit they’re loaded it’s all programming to get you to identify with those characters in that oh yeah that’s how things are you know that’s how that’s how it is and so it’s all inducting you into this sort of way of being and also so in other words we used to tell stories we used to tell stories do you know I realized I realized I could check this out I realize this a few weeks ago or last month it occurred to me oh my God I was initiated into the Celtic Mysteries by my Irish Grandma who is off the boat from Ireland should full Irish accent and she was a master Storyteller will the Irish have been known for that you know Master storytellers their storytellers in every culture but you know that I was really been known for this and she would speak very quietly so we’d have to show and listen to these Amazing Stories and she tells stories about that the fairies and The Kelpies and the Banshees and she was an amazing Storyteller and and then I call my mom later that day I said hey you know it occurred to me I told her that and my mom said I cannot believe you’re calling with me me with a Shana guess what today is an I said what and she said today is your grandmother’s birthday she’s been dead for years you know I didn’t know in any case but so you know we would we would share the stories of our ancestors and astrology and so all of that has been okay and so with that then you know you have children growing up identifying with their folk right and feeling like I am part of this and this is magical and this is ancient and there’s heroes in this lineage and there’s you know this and this and now would we have with TV so it’s not that hard it’s not that great of a leap of logic right to imagine that adults would reaxis some of that imaginary fun making Instinct rape American coach Leisure we would look down on play and we look down on make-believe and so we decide that’s just for children and it’s not for grown ups and I think that that’s a really horrible horrible perspectives of the world cuz you’re only a child for a very very brief point of your life and you’re an adult for a really really long part of your life and wouldn’t I don’t want to stop playing would you want to grow up ever and so yeah I think of BDSM I think erotic play I feel like yeah it’s just this extension of your creativity and artistic and Tristan and your means of expressing yourself and now you get to have sex so why wouldn’t you add that and everything else thank you for helping to frame it that way cuz that it’s it’s so it’s easier to digest when you when I just have never heard that what that phrase before but it just erotic play being obviously it means that you could incorporate more than just your one monogamous married partner that’s just still only allowed that culturally they by the mainstream the idea of being sexually playful with a group of people in the community of people as a social activity like a cocktail party or a mixer or I mean why can’t you believe make break into play make-believe you know the okay fine I just I’m this is my partner this is the only person I’m going to have sex with her I’m going to be in love with or however you’re defining that but I can pretend for the next hour or two that there’s someone I’ve never met before or that there a superhero or that a magical being or whatever and that can really shift your erotic interest in your erotic pleasure I think you probably would be able to say that it will make a lot of relationships last longer and be more Pap more healthier happier for sustainable resilient cuz you’re not getting bored and giving up and going you know stoic that’s great so do you have a key tell it tell me more about the center and how it how it runs and functions is it kind of like a drop-in center or do you have only certain events at certain times or how does the facility time work out we don’t actually have a physical location most of it exists inside my laptop and out of and that means we don’t have to pay for rent so that’s why we go to where we need to go so you know we have regular meetings happen in my house or one of the other board members houses we do have some events here and there are a lot of our fundraisers or just online to make it easier to reach as many people as possible and of course we’re trying to reach a broader audience than just Los Angeles so we Skype workshops we Skype things we’ve talked to classes in New York and classes in Idaho and you know all over the place so you know we do a lot of different things we also have an academic Journal that you’re positive sexuality it’s free it’s open access anyone is welcome to use it and read it and submit work to it and you know that’s been going we’re now in our third year of publication of that and that is hitting a worldwide audience some of the countries that are accessing this are it’s all over in Australia and in Belgium and in various parts of the UK and it’s hitting parts of Asia Japan so it’s really really great so we have a very wide reach and what we do we have approximately 50 to 60 volunteers who work with us we also have an internship program so we get college students who want internship credits or what the work experience and so they volunteer for a specific. Of time and work on specific projects for us at different times of the year we get most of our interns during the summer but we get interns year-round and we have in our volunteers so we have Educators we have people who are research Affiliates and who published research and use the center is one of their professional affiliations we have research assistants who helped them we do you work with events so we do some Outreach events I think on Wednesday we’re going to UCLA sextravaganza which is been happening for several years on UCLA’s campus that we usually set up a booth are we do that with other things around town we’ve also have members some of our volunteers go to conferences all over the world and represent us at different places and in different areas where they were very popular in Melbourne just found out from a friend who’s been living in Australia for past couple years so I can’t I guess we’ll have to go there at some point cool it’s a new cloud-based model it’s elegant and overhead in the neighborhood drama and that there’s a lot of reasons to transcend that six location and you can if you can be a mobile you know unit then you can just take your your your laptop and projector and some you know what your handouts or whatever you have in this b a and again because true using Skype and using other types of internet programs you know we can get into a classroom you know that might not be able to bring us there physically but we can still do it will set it up on our end and and just stream live stream wherever we need to be and and it’s very helpful to cuz we so we have volunteers I think are farthest away volunteer that we’ve had so far was in Trinidad so we can have volunteers from anywhere in the world who can work with us medication programs and so they help us Creator update or education resources in our reference materials and putting together things to help teachers facilitate this in their classes they might actually be one of our Educators we train people to go out to those classes and to give presentations to places we have research assistants to make come in with a certain amount of background knowledge and how to do academic research and some come in just wanted to learn it and so we trained them and they work with people who are doing research in various aspects of positive sexuality and so some of them get to co-author papers and some of them get to work on the ground floor of research happening and get to really get into what that is and have a voice and have an influence in what’s being done in the academic world and this is course then starts to affect policy when we’re putting scientific research in front of people and saying here this is what the says that’s not the correct or let them besides these aspects and that can be very very helpful we work with other organizations so and CSF the National Coalition for sexual freedom is one of our sort of co-working his nation’s the community academic Consortium for research on alternative sexualities we work with them as well yeah I’m getting chills yeah I’m getting chills cuz this is a lot more than I bargained for and actually seeking a lot of what you’re describing and to have yeah we hope we have a good bit of time last time feeling compelled to ask you a little bit about I guess hey if you’re into taboos right blowing them there is all I ever believed starting this week there’s going to be the biggest psychedelic science conference in the history of humanity happening in the Bay Area it’s put together by that multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies and the there’s a lot of really important cutting-edge legal for the first time in decades studies happening all over the world with psilocybin you know I gave magic mushrooms and MDMA and Ayahuasca and marijuana and peyote and I will gain a number of other synthetic and natural organic you could say psychedelic compounds in a lot of it is at this point in this stage of the Renaissance of research it’s really about proving the safety the relative safety of different compounds getting the dosage to be sort of understood better at also having some really important clinical trials around ending ending addiction to harmful drugs ending cigarette addiction end-of-life anxiety sexual abuse and Trauma and PTSD from War veterans there’s all these different the demographics that are starting to have really groundbreaking results and they’re doing you know they’re putting in the millions of dollars to do the the research for all this and so I bring that up just to say that this is an interesting juncture for me because the a cultural cliche about sex drugs and rock and roll and you know the way that the culture of inebrians is starting to move a large part due to Raves and festivals it’s moving more towards entheogens than just Coke and heroin and meth and booze there’s more opportunities for people who are coming into their sexuality to have access to psychedelic experiences and so there’s the new Alchemy of innocent in these Generations between sex drugs and rock and roll and if it’s it’s it’s it’s a lot more sophisticated and advanced and and and just more diverse in many ways than it was in the 60s when it was you know Acid Rock and LSD and other birth of the the hippie movement in the 60s but I’m wondering if you have in your position they’re come across any any any people who are interested in in rigorous academic study of what this new sex and drugs and rock and roll Paradigm it is shaping up to become if there’s anyone interested in that that you know of he’s been there are definitely people who are starting who are doing research on these topics and very often the connection that ends up happening in the academic research is you know if we’re looking at the sex drugs and rock and roll that of course is going to look at the outcomes and too often I think the the outcome that gets stressed is okay so what’s the what’s the public health issue so is it possible or is it likely that people are might be transmitting STIs because they might be under the influence of something or maybe they can’t we do we have to worry about consent if someone is under the influence of something that then means that they cannot now consent to what happens at that point so what happens if everybody who’s involved have done that so where does that line get drawn so I think a lot of the issues that have come up in recent research has been either on public health topics around STI transmission or on consent topics recognizing that at least by law if someone is inebriated for example they can now no longer consent to sexual activity okay so what happens if everybody involved. That’s so interesting yet that’s exactly what I’ve been actually encountering and in just by life experiences it’s there’s there’s a lot of people now who were you can say you were having expanded Consciousness through empty agentic use meaning it’s kind of a nice way of saying psychedelic no drugs but but that’s an important consideration because just because you feel like you’re enlightened than that one with God doesn’t mean that you’re immune from being the perpetrator with that Enlightenment that you don’t think you have a potential for abuse and even if it’s not that sort of shady you know where that sort of Insidious there’s also just the issue you’re not in your body if you’re having an out-of-body ecstatic psychedelic experience how how do you get even if you can send it to the idea of something earlier in the evening that has to be held through somehow and if you lose the if you become somebody else or part of your higher self or whatever it could be theirs that’s some chicky territory for sure yeah so that’s I guess there’s you know that I’ve seen like at electronic dance music events you can call him Rave but that’s kind of more you know probably more accurate term these days cuz there’s within that whole world there’s different camps and it’s more no more more bride to just called electronic dance music these days but you know there is there’s sort of harm reduction education Outreach groups that put out one sheet kind of look like glass CD mailer cards you know about business matters and they have kind of a profile of what the different substances how did how to test and make sure that they’re real or are what you’re getting it like that there’s that whole harm reduction education Outreach approach that is kind of like what you’re talking about but it’s for the party scene in just for best and better practices around that but I could see that they’re being a sum interest group of people where they would want to see things the way you’re talking about it cuz I actually no way you’re framing it it it feels like there’s a lot more due diligence for people that want to be credible and respectable and using best practices to actually think with some of these analytical tools so I’m hoping you’ll be great if there was some overlap or or or Synergy with all this stuff I think more and more what is happening as we’re seeing the people who are actually involved in all of these different spaces you know the people were actually doing whatever it is we’re talking about having more influence on the research that’s being conducted so that it creates a more authentic overall experience and I think it adds a level of legitimacy to the research so rather than a researcher sort of from on high saying well I’m going to study this group and I think what they’re doing may not be safe and so we know the perspective that I’m going to come about with this is that well this is already inherently unsafe and now I’m going to show you why it’s in safe and I think more and more we have researchers who are in these communities who are in these faces or doing all of these things and you say you know maybe we need to do is talk to the people who were actually doing this and not talk to them with a preconceived notion of what’s going on or what they’re experiencing or what may be happening but go in just as a hey could give us some information to tell us about what’s happening and I think we’re seeing more of that so there has been research on for example like barebacking and there’s been research on sex workers experiences and there’s been research on sort of the the spiritual some of the spiritual Connections in the spiritual extremes that can be experienced through extreme SM activities light hookah coals and those kinds of things so we’re seeing more and more of that happening where people who are actually in these groups are part of the subcultures are also crossovers into the academic life and we’re just seeing an amazing amount of research that starting to Bubble to the surface and get a little bit of space. I think this research has been getting done for quite a while but it can be really hard to get it published because some of the academic Publishers don’t want to hear about it and I want you to my is any of these things so if they publish something on it they want to be really careful so with our journal and with some of the other journals out there we’ve been able to bridge. Cap and actually be able to show some I feel like more authentic stories well absolutely will now in this world have so many The Gatekeepers being dissolved by the power of the internet I feel like you know there’s a lot of bad journalism or untrained journalism so there’s got to be a lot of bad or untrained or Incredible or uncredible research but maybe it’s the methodology that can be what’s the word sort of feel like I could imagine what as you were speaking I was imagining will wouldn’t it be great to train the you know that like the anthropological participation observation ethnography kind of model but if you were to train if you were coming from that subculture and you wanted to sort of document your tribe and produce your own ethnography kind of amongst your friends kind of tabulate experiences and collect notes insured compare notes is there was you recommend any kind of Crash Course doing data collection for different types of research paper I’m doing ethnography in the field and sort of how that works and how you can sort of pull everything together there’s a really good little guidebooks you know a quick online search for for some of these guys are out there and ask her if she is amazing stuff I love doing a photography by the way I think it’s an incredible tool that doesn’t get use nearly enough and and it got a lot of researchers a colleague of mine she recently did a photographic ethnographic working with lgbtq Foster Youth and homeless Youth and kind of went out gave them all cameras and said take photographs of Your World of your life of who you are, and they did a whole art show you know like found a gallery in Downtown LA and just played everyone’s photographs and and you know really got people connected to them and seeing them as people who have life experiences and they’re not just sort of a category of disadvantaged kids so yeah I think there’s there’s an easy guide books out there just like a quick you can find some quick little things of how to do ethnography and how to do that and but I think a lot of that to starts with her own storytelling so things that you do and things that others do and and all the bloggers out there and everything of these are all forms of ethnography relay yeah that’s cool it’s just that it’s exciting and hopeful cuz I feel that I’m at a point where I’m doing kind of pseudo-scientific Rogue radical research that’s way too far out for any government agency or any academic institution to touch with a ten-foot pole so it’s it’s kind of on me and my colleagues and friends 2 do this sort of underground research but then hope that it it’s done in a way that it can be respectable or it can be legitimated later you know but it is probably good to do what you’re suggesting and actually have some some templates for collecting the data that mean okay here’s what would our experiment yielded and here’s the methodology in the procedure and you can test it on your own Hardy or lab or whatever replicate what you’ve done and so can you give enough information that would allow somebody else to replicate and get similar results in their own place or find totally different results which is also fascinating injured and interesting and yeah and I think that’s really I mean that’s science that is science Sciences pushing boundaries and science is you now let’s try a new thing and see what happens and science is telling a new story or New Perspective of a story and you know I think that that’s been lost over the past many years Society The Sciences inquiry science is asking questions and wondering why thing happens and how something happens and trying to figure that out and I think that we’ve sort of collectively as a larger society have sort of lost that Focus write the word crowdsourced crowd-source funding crowdsourced ideas and editing and an art I mean you were talking about that at that photo gallery exhibit and that’s a great example if you would call that a crowd-sourced ethnographic oh yeah photojournalism nice oh yeah that’s cool that’s that’s exciting time so I’m also wondering now do you have do you do you or your organization the Center provide any kind of consulting services or any kind of where you could be hired or you could be sort of commissioned to do research or to consult on Research I don’t know that we’re I don’t know that anybody is really hired to do research cuz wouldn’t it be fantastic if someone will pay for that but that doesn’t happen if we do get hired as consultants for a variety of things so either individuals within the organization or the collective organization May consult on certain projects or consult on like creative curriculum for a particular thing and we have individuals who are consulted on court cases and I’m legal issues so so there’s a lot of that we also get hired by professionals like to teach professional workshops on various topics so that happens as well because we’re a nonprofit although those things are often we you know ask for fee cuz usually the people who were asking for these services are people who can pay for it but what going out to the schools we’re going to colleges in touch or we have a student group asked us to come and do something with them or like what you know we go to somebody’s community of answer something we may ask for an honorarium but we’re going to do this stuff for free so we really depend on our donors and our contributors and the people who support us to kind of give us the funding that we need in order to do what we want to do and and to publishing and all the other stuff so our journals available for free most of our Outreach staff and education program is all for free so yeah a lot of what we do depends on donations as opposed to people actually hiring us officially to do something right on that sounds like a healthy well-rounded multi Revenue stream nonprofit you’re definitely fulfilling your mission in so many beautiful dimensions and I’m just really happy to know that we’ve connected to some really feel better about living in the world with you more offline 2 just to explore some of these Consulting opportunities that you have and see what we’re about and all of that stuff were completely volunteer so none of us are paid for what we do I don’t run a paycheck nobody wants a paycheck that’s completely volunteer and yeah we’re just we’re just trying to let you know we just try to bring it enough funds to keep going and to keep doing what we’re doing and to expand so we’re actually going to be expanding our face-to-face education program out to Chicago over the next few months so Craig can you do that that’s well thank you so much that’s great I feel like it’s it’s really refreshing to to hear that there are people out there who are so dedicated to the cause that it’s that you did not just going to slam the door in your face if you don’t write a check if you know the first five minutes if you’re not going to bill me for this podcast interview right now about an hour into it is do you have a sort of committee or task force or team or just even a person who is either because they are a trauma Survivor or because it’s just near and dear to their hearts whatever reason is there you do consent workshops in self-defense or rape and assault prevention and any any more of the or any any of the sort of preventative and treatment kind of education unpreparedness we do have programs around consent we don’t really specifically talk about self defense or or right prevention in the standard sense so we don’t really talk about here’s what you can do to prevent being raped we talked about here’s what you can do to not rape someone because really this is not on the victim this is on the perpetrator but we also talked about you know here’s other ways that you might think about your sexual self and your identity in the power dynamics that you may interact with and find consensual outlets for some of your interests and behaviors and the citiz and you know we talked about a wide range of those things so it would be great if the people who are doing the Rape Crisis counseling and who are just in the trenches of dealing with battered women and in and going in and and doing you know investigations to catch meant to prosecute the perpetrators of all ages if they were I would let it would be great if in it you know in a perfect world they were seeking you all to educate themselves on better prevention and better version or diversion from the criminal whole that the response like they’re coming as the First Responders two incidents that would have been prevented by a proper education on all sides right and we do have we do have information so some of our researchers and and because we have people who are social workers who have conducted research through us who have published on how to do how to have a sex positive approach to handling victims how to have a sex positive approach to handling offenders and that these approaches can really help reduce crime can reduce negative stigma can reduce it comes cool is that would that be on your website or at some if I if I can follow up with you later cool okay well alright I feel like it’s this is yes. A real blessing and I just want to thank you again for your time and generous sharing of great info so with that said do you want to give the website and any other maybe upcoming events or anything else you’d like to promote and the website is positive sexuality. Org journal and that’s Journal of positive sexuality. Org we have our anniversary party coming up this July so if you want to be invited and want to be a part of that anniversary party will be a fundraiser you can contact me at Emily Emily at positive sexuality. Org or you can go to our website and put in your email address and then you’re on our newsletter list and you’ll get information through our newsletter about our party and we’re hoping we’re putting together an academic conference for next year so look on our website check things out if you go to sex pause khan.com so s e x p o s c o n. Com there’s going to be updated information they’re probably starting in the next couple of weeks for our positive sexuality conference coming up in 2018 in Burbank all right that’s very exciting thank you again yeah that’s me alright thank you so much again and I will hopefully I’ll be in touch soon thank you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite sex if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at kontrapunkt. Com Thomas gay