Punks in Recovery with Craig Lewis TPP10

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tp-craig-lewisCraig Lewis is a Certified Peer Specialist living and working in Massachusetts. He has struggled immensely with mental health issues throughout his life; however he has successfully transformed this into a life of wellness. Craig is successfully working as part of an outreach team in Boston, Massachusetts. He also tours the country, speaking about his lived experience, sharing his struggles and triumphs to help others.

Craig has authored and published the Better Days – A Mental Health Recovery Workbook. Craig based the Better Days workbook on his personal life and recovery, and every page has been used successfully in peer group settings. A Better Days support group facilitation guide is currently being developed as are Spanish and French language versions of the Better Days workbook.

Craig also has edited and published You’re Crazy Volume One which compiles first-hand accounts of people from the punk rock scene who live with mental illness, addiction and trauma. A second volume of You’re Crazy is in the works.

Craig can be contacted at: betterdaysrecovery@gmail.com

Please take a look at Craig’s websites for more information about his books, projects and events.

 HTTP://WWW.BETTERDAYSRECOVERY.COM

HTTP://WWW.PUNKSINRECOVERY.COM

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 10 I’m having a discussion with Craig Lewis who is very heavily involved in recovery from trauma addiction and other mental illnesses from punk rock perspective and he’s got a lot of great resources that he’s putting out and is really doing a lot of great work in the field so hope you enjoy the conversation and take care of Namaste welcome Craig to The Point podcast and meaning to connect for a while I’m really thrilled about the what you doing evolving in the punk rock movement and and mental health areas and if you want to introduce yourself what you working on your projects and give a little bit of background we’ll go from there my name is Craig Lewis and I live in Salem Massachusetts this is right outside of Boston Adam 41 years old I’ve been in and around the punk scene since 1988 when I was 14 as a young person my life was quite dysfunctional I didn’t really realize that at the time my parents really intent on having whatever issues we had in our family you know identified with me as being the issue on their parents went from Boston to talk to the doctor to try. has somebody agree with that I was I was meant to be unhealthy and ultimately I was put in the hospital and spent you know three plus years and Adolescent group homes in residential homes and hospitals and you know I got out of there really unprepared for the world and I spend time with me until my mid-30s really just very dysfunctional and and I know how unhealthy I was I was I was on vacations for many many years. Causing a reason why I was so sick and NetSpend spent so many years has Peyton laws assures and doing is Ian playing in bands and I was always chronically ill the entire time and not not not do to you my undoing I was I was I medication I now know I never should have been all that actually caused me to be unstable so it was it happened and I got some my mid-thirties and I really hate my life and I I’ve been working on it ever since so ask him and we haven’t played out yet or called rapid cycle and hopefully we’ll be recording and playing with the last couple months all the songs about recovery and wellness and fighting the good fight and I’m trying to be the change in the world that I had to desperately need for myself and that I feel is necessary to make the world a better place especially for my people who are people who really are marginalized to this will have identified personally at the margin life person and people will buy both of the struggles and I really getting a nice Matt so I feel myself very dedicated and committed to doing what I can to make the world a better place in that regard over the years I’ve become Michelle theer I went to school I became a peer counselor of a certified peer specialist which is the actual title that I have and I got a call to the green Human Services and associates degree and I’ve been feeling different jobs and I’ve been the same job now for almost 4 and 1/2 years in a couple months where I am working up here call Claire team helping other people with live experience with benzos drug addiction trauma learn to cope with their struggle so they can have a happier and healthier and more satisfying life and as I continued my attention toward improving the quality of my life and making more healthy and and really more informed choices about what’s right for me in what I need to be near happy healthy and and well and it’s a side of my life I realize that there was really in the punxsy in the country has been going on since I was 14 when I first got involved even dictionary, and really any issue you can imagine it’s really foggy that I was involved in all sorts of conflict and problems and I was really out of control and I realize now that I wish I had some understanding and empathy and where I was guided toward you know getting help that would be effective in and beneficial to me and so I would suffer last and have less conflict and ultimately I didn’t really get that and I was really nervous or to be dysfunctional Duty garage if you know poor living standards living in squalor you know how many years as I’ve been that was almost acceptable yet for me it was just contributing to my my chronic mental health El Hardcore Pawn Canoga Park whatever I don’t really care about the labels very much but it’s a lot of it but still had history and never at maybe I wanted to provide a forum for people to talk about their experiences so that they could really going to be understood be heard yelling and be treated with no epithelium and and patience and really and you know you have so many of us end up kicking around lives and so many of us end up self-medicating or guide used for a very long time and we lose lots of good people to you know suicide in overdose and and Reckless Reckless Reckless living that results in an acid issue that’s not it’s not been addressed and I feel like it must be talked about and I really I just came up with the idea to do the plug and go with a transient idea at first and now it’s a book and now I’m working on the second volume in the car for contributions is out now do I speak around the Country Inn & in Canada and hopefully I’ll be able to travel around the world speaking about my experiences and and if that’s off recovery and dealing with trauma and all of the important stuff to me in and they’ll probably be rain have going on as be better days a mental health recovery workbook which is something that I came up with a Spotify and internship when I went to school for to become a peer counselor and it was basically a support group curriculum that I have people responded to and people benefited from what I was going to bring him to the the group each week and they have really no training and I doing that kind of work I I seem to be a natural and as it as it worked out after usually given a group in different places United jobs in as of altering as an intern to try to put together and took book form so with the help of some. I get the book put into book form and now people are ordering and Beyond in the UK and Ireland in Canada and Australia can I see my life was worth the life of struggling and lack of opportunity that I really just not to come into my anger and I got a question is it it does exist within me and I really committed to doing my part to I don’t let myself up out of poverty in and lack of opportunity in and financial struggle but to also know my people my people are people who have been marginalized in whatever way they treated poems about society and and and denied it a Crime Stoppers in these are just treat dignity respect and I want to help those people make sure they send their struggles are there any cooking skills so that they can look happier healthier and more satisfying lives and it’s my life it’s what I do 24/7 whether I’m at work or not that is how I live my life and I try to have all my interactions you know the it potentially real vehicles for the moment sore I respectfully dignified and communication because I know how personally damaging to be treated like you’re not worth you know if I owe someone else and you’re not you know where the inside of respectful treatment stuff that’s really my life that’s what I do and you know punk rock and metal all of this stuff really comes together it as being the core of who I am and and and what I’m trying to achieve in this world to myself and also my community in the world in general and that’s my Direction that’s my drive and I’m going full steam ahead so I know they have it I left his hat thank you so much! I cry so beautiful and and I can relate to a lot of different aspects it makes me think I mean I went through the cool cycle running away I ran away when I was 12 and then I was in and out of institutions in became a ward of the court and bounced around to different homes in placements and whatnot and for a few years and yeah just long stretches in different places and would generally end up continuing to run away until they got me they got me locked down hard for about a year-and-a-half at one point and and I really got the gas before it LOL several times I was forced on medication and I luckily I was able to convince them that it was not helping me and I didn’t continue to force it down my throat but yeah absolutely being a victim not only has to societal like Mental Health crisis that produces the different types of problems people have but also be true caged in with with with other Pino’s like extremely extremely mentally disordered traumatized other other people other kids you know and then I was actually just I was not clinically myself anything other than just mildly depressed as a result of being stuffy nose like I didn’t I didn’t have any extreme conditions just at the time they they just wants everything everything if you’re a juvenile and you’re running away and you you have drug problems you’re just sort of put into the same funnel institutions as minors with severe behavior problems and stuff so I got to really yeah I have a unique insight into the policy and institutions in and all of the all that sort of stuff and I did a lot of work books and I was put to the 12-step program went to 90 meetings in 90 days in head sponsors in yeah was put through many many hours of of different types of as therapeutic modalities and most of them were pretty most of them has he was very critical is too interesting to be like an anarchists and a punk hypercritical nnn aware and being forced to say you’re never going to see the light of day again unless you completely can form the ultimate Conformity this isn’t just what your parents think you should do if you have parents which I pretty much didn’t miss my father abandon me and has there been in the family when I was three and my mother was pretty much so busy putting food on the table that she was so emotionally unavailable it was rough going through all that in the end going from a totally unstructured environment where there is no Authority and then getting into punk rock and going on the street and finding family and tribe and being really initiated into a tribal subculture and then unfortunately being dominated by severe addiction and violence and alcoholism and stuff like you’re saying it doesn’t it’s riddled with with pathology even though it’s our best hope in a lot of ways though it’s really important to be helping it evolve and grow to be more supportive than have more resources in interesting me it was people like you that had probably the most affect an impact on me when I was going in and out of Institutions that because they’re always seem to be like at least one post-punk angel that would be that would gravitate to they see my boots and my Mohawk and stuff and then they would they would kind of give me the secret knowledge that they said they were punks you know that had gone to school to get a social work degree and so they were working in these institutions to kind of get there a minimum hour requirements for certifications and stuff so they would always smuggle me in Punk record send zeins I say most of my in my most quality education and in in the punk rock movement was the CCM Elders that would that were working in these places that was secretly be able to pay myself have you found other like have you kind of built build some good networking done some good networking with other professional Punk oriented social workers and clinical psychologists in I’m not a social worker or counselor but I have gotten some great networking and I do know a fairly decent amount of social workers and I also know if punk rock to your counselor and also just threw out my travels and you know the website to track a lot of interesting people and the call for contributions for the book them doing brings in a lot of interesting people as well and you know my professional mental health workbook by many people in the severely jitomate you know you got this was one of us and that’s really a lot of people that they needed to show respect of us are considered mentally unhealthy cuz we’re inside sorry. Or because we are unique we have our own style of dress or own way we were here and so many people in the system especially going back to the past several decades now remember 25 raising their face so a lot of people are treated badly because they listen to Scott and they had their own beliefs that said a child that won’t inform them you know just simply telling you this information doesn’t make it true as punk rockers and people with with strongly develops a personal item has a run but how do we get out of society where people could be respected and treated with dignity that many people are just considered mentally unhealthy because they have is s r e l a lot of people do that and you said it talk about the vehicle cheats for their other the color of a year how they know that really pushes people the way so I’m sure if you have an experience that person you know what I’m talking about and medic medic see this is a chronic courses offered at 3 to do this kind of work and dye made from and being accessible on Facebook through anybody who wants to chat or talk if I have time and show me people who want to make the world a better place and you want to get back to have this this like this deeply rooted desire at your house from Concord to they got at the punk rock yes of course cuz I lied to her right difficult and Andy were looking for a place to be who he always loved being judged 11 also really have this desire in this need to help make the world a better price and summer squash down by Society in the system and and that it’s really hard to really good blossom into the person that you suggest Lee want needs to be and it’s not going to come across people like that all the time who really didn’t know that I could get better but you didn’t know that these kind of jobs exist and if you can get trained to do this kind of work is it absolutely amazing relationship and what I’m doing and yeah that that that in some ways that makes you sad that people have struggled so much just like I had struggled so much and I never been offered that information and then once I got even the tiniest bit of information that was possible I took that ball and Iran Iran Iran I’m still running and life getting better certainly You know what last step of this is that odd thing is that I do not get shocked by some of the very troubling things you see when you do some kind of Human Service work so it kind of gives us an advantage and you know be able to connect with people cuz we get the violence and we get the trauma we get to substance abuse and we get the the you know by the police or something it personally are we know of it in the other thing I wanted to say about that is that on McBride catch my train of thought War II was that people from the punk scene you know people who are who are in various police and police about you know turn is Amanda autonomy and mutual support I mean what is more punk rock and what is more alarm at those believe that having a role where you provide Mutual support to others who are struggling and to be able to have that in my professional life where I work as a peer mental health counselor but also have that in my personalized my social life when I meet people when I travel and whoever right she was on the phone and just got over being part of your people who described, and they actually what I’m doing is providing Mutual support for people when does Cabarrus situations where they can be really like I have a very very much in line with my beliefs of you know supporting each other and to Build a Better Community Building others better world so every day and it’s awesome and there’s way more than anyone knows and I want to help create strength in that community so we can all United in and also identifying the people out there who are allies to us whether they have the experience or not or whether they having to go help you know Spirits are trauma or addiction experience you’re not that allies the people who are also working Human Services many of them try to do this work a better place you know for their family member you know they make things better so I can also recognize that allies also that sometimes to a better because we protect ourselves and sometimes it’s because we we blocked at beneficial to us and I want you to just got back shed hear that that some allies or many allies are actually quite that they are allies to us and we can work together to make the world a better place and help each other and I aware of in the news or any you know anything going on so some people are just good people and whether there will come soon and not leave certain political ideologies or not they can be embraced and will want to embrace us and doing the work we’re doing and people here that because so many of us get pushed away and we naturally build up defenses to protect ourselves and it’s important to recognize that we do that could be of help to us and we should try to use our best to intuition I who those people are and see what we can come up with me see what kind of changes or improvements to our lives that we can wait and then approached with making the world a better place in different healthier for all of us right on. Yeah I totally feel that and if I’ve been on a similar path feeling like the nihilism and pessimism that’s sort of built into a lot of I mean if your punk that’s of a persuasion of just total apathy and eyelids and then you know when you come when you get into the the Revolutionary or insurrectionary activist modality of punk and then you get your ass kicked in the streets and you can’t be friends go to jail or you go to jail whatever you just get bludgeon and demoralized and disillusion and you said you had hope and now you’re actually more traumatized kind of like in The Matrix you know if The Cypher you know he wants to take back the disillusionment and just to be blissfully ignorant again and I think that we’re going to probably the punk rock element coming into does the social science in clinical psycho psychologie in of this kind of recovery and stare. Work I think they will end up introducing some sort of clinical terminology for the the condition that is becoming too too aware of the totality of if you when you start to look at the karmic consequences of living on the back being in the first row living on the backs of all of the ecologies and in economies as the other nations you know that are under the bootheel of of the West and all that you’re not just solving your own personal life family Karma and traumas that we’re actually living carrying the weight of the world here if you never if you’ve never cared about any of that stuff in your kind of just more of those completely apathetic Southampton pain it won’t heal still never affect you that that pain in that sense of responsibility and a sense of not being able to be content just fitting into society or just fitting into the sort of fashionable scenes and stuff because you’re like no I need to be resisting the size as my conscience has been awakened to the this expense entire Global disorder there’s so much additional, wounding baggage to inherit that that that disillusionment but then there’s also the gift within that of finding a sustainable way to be resisting and fighting back and you know but doing it figuring out a way to actually actually expresses your gift you know and end in from like a kind of typical spiritual kind of using thing as soon I was fine when you’re in you’re when you’re in the zone like if everyone who is fine is what puts them in the zone that’s a positive constructive creative self Transcendence you know purposeful activity weather is gardening or doing you know writting or writing poetry or doing volunteering or whatever it is if it’s something that’s not just serving your narcissistic ego I was just not going to get you very far but something that is help genuinely giving back in serving and it is something that you enjoy doing that’s where the real internal Pharmacy switches on and you become your own organic psychiatrist that medicine you know know and have a more and have a such a a reason to find those gifts in a reason you know to like we don’t have to pay once you get disillusioned and switch Sean you have to you can’t really sleep at night knowing that you’re part of this giant monstrosity of exploitation you got to figure out how to become more locally and regionally self-sufficient and sustainable and and how to make you said create Mutual Aid System all kinds of overlapping layers of mutual Aid so you can start to have more Independence and autonomy from the systems that are really perpetuating all this stuff so yeah I’m totally hopeful and in excited about about what is going to be like as you know we make the world a better place for everybody and his future Generations role in but also particularly with our own server tribe you know like I can imagine that honey I’ve started want to dedicate my life to making the next generation of people who do get disillusion whether to punk or whatever else give them more constructive and more sustainable ways to express that rage and to resist in ways that don’t you know get them in really trapped the way that I’ve been trapped in and peer pressure to do things that you say you know in certain ways unsustainable El Paso weather most people I believe who are being treated for mental health issues or trauma or addiction a mental health issues or addiction generally has to put a trauma either alongside what’s going on with them or has precipitated it and so when are the judges are made in the documents it written and diagnosis it diagnosis are given the trauma ask that’s what you may be the main source of the dysfunction or perpetuated or or or or Nursery in a negative way that the difficulties we were having or how we coach is often not even addressed during the whole truth, is the major component and often I just had precipitates you know the real the real I just kind of struggles who are basically labels and put in the box and told you this label this word is in this box and I’ll just medication in that this is your life is now it’s going to be and you know no one really care so that was my experience it’s a lot of parents that also wanted to say that I know we talkin about we we certainly have to acknowledge that this parts of the punk scene is people in the punk scene who absolutely have whatever reason I have a very apathetic stance I don’t care about politics are you know making a change in the world and in a way that maybe ice I might see our our our potential to do so however I think it’s also crucial pieces mind but also when we interact with others as far as finding common ground to meet at and not just compared to some people who are already feeling shunned or themselves from others for their own safety and that’s that these individuals to are very apathetic and you’d call him and get gas pump whatever we call them I mean something happened to them experience something like that maybe they were extinguisher made it more complicated for them really I mean we’re all the products of what we’ve experienced so individual for a community really must also be validated for the fact that they’ve experienced something real life most of what we don’t know about we have not had that conversation to add to this weekend we should be more empathetic and understanding understanding find common ground which would then reduce the result of individuals who are anti whatever it is we’re trying to do that you know Progressive so that are the way they are they do things the way that you would just say what they say because of their experiences and I would go very far as to say that in many situations are most people who acts in ways that are disruptive are or are against what is the collective real good reasons for doing that if if I don’t like it leave if you don’t like it or it’s not helpful to society they’ve experienced something in life that is informed them do to protect themselves or that manifest we have to acknowledge that that’s possible or potential explanation and when we do that we let me extend that massive amount of epithelia people instead of judging them in condemning them in and then you don’t know. and have their license because if that’s how it’s going to be and we can make that really at most empathetic wonderful decision to ourselves apart a to not engage that negativity cuz of that sells down and park Beauty must one another must one of us empathetic things we can do it’s not get into it with them and it is somebody is being destructive are there getting drunk out of his colon causing problems that are causing fights or whatever it is we get nothing out of it nothing out of well-being and wellness and Medical Health Center perpetuates already struggling struggling and suffering even if they’re wrong with me even if it’s wrong someone else do they care about that’s contrary to everything I believe in care about whether that means having really politics or whatever it is I understand that people are the products of their experiences and we do the things we do when we adapt and our brains and our minds how to defend ourselves to protect ourselves and I can get that I guess that very deeply as person lie and we will all be much happier if we eliminate some of that unnecessary conflict cuz it gets none of us are getting pissed off and alienated from our communities or from the community which really we all have a much more in common as to how she even with each other then the differences I wanted to make that clear that that’s really where I come from on that comment about you know that is this sustainable living and living a healthier Life by not impacting those who are less LIRR the providers of a lot of our services and and foods and ends in a situation that existed as many people want to be treated right in my my actions don’t always make decisions that are the life of those people who know I cannot directly speed at impact and I want to just put on the record here that I’m aware of that and I want to be better about it recovery of struggle and just keep myself going there today at the massive full-time job as I think you understand as well and maybe the listing will get and I have work to do to make sure that I can have left of an egg impact on those in the world that I can’t see your hair at night I think crucial to be accountable for our word that our actions and that’s something that overtime I hope I can make more adjustments to really be able to be more to adhere more to my beliefs of a really not harming anybody and I’m glad you brought that up because it made me realize that yes I have a lot of work to do as far as living that life that I believe would be beneficial to all of us if we’re able to actually apply it in the garage for our lives to thank you for bringing up that point and I’m grateful that you share that and it was in this conversation describe reconciling differences between the different camps in punk rock if that’s what’s so amazing in in in well stated and even going back to Axiom days and I was just like a teenager if your right eye it was a lot of lot of conflict a lot of some sort of psychic and even physical conflict in show environments and and scenes and stuff we’re more energy was spent fighting each other than fighting assistance in a lot of cases and I I think I honestly secretly was envious of the the Hedonism most of total telepathy and so there is jealousy there and envy you can’t be no be having a good time cuz I’m pissed off cuz I’m studying all this stuff about how the world’s screwed up and I’m going to make you more miserable and not acknowledge your the truth of your life experience and there’s this whole very malignant growth of the people that hyper intellectual elitist view PC vs whatever street punks are cast bunk’d whatever and then and then and then they rebelled against their like hey we got because we were sick of rules and now you’re telling us we have to have all these rules fuck you you know it’s Dynamic Anna and I really obviously I think she has somewhere in the middle is is is the middle the Watercourse Way you know it’s like between the extremes of Pleasure and Pain is you know where we want to have a baseline of homeostasis mentally and yeah I just wanted to throw out the or ask you if you have any thoughts about the pathology like the Psychopathology of of being the feeling like you know a lot of the more conscious or where people using that as a way to put people down and actually yeah add to their wounds not acknowledge where they’re coming from and I mean I don’t want to name name names of particular movements that I think has the issues very kind of full-blown but I think you can imagine how they’re are you know they’re really just morally Superior elitist and that is more division more ego foundries and stuff and not likely not actually changing either really engaged and lots of call clicks then it all back then what was called and that never should have been there really hard dry Community Honda other people I slid in the other than my spells and very very unfortunate and I really was desperate for percept insight as I said I grew up in group homes and I didn’t really have the kind of life that that would have really prepared me for the world appears and you know what I was very much my maturity level was was it over the years and I was traveling I really called by the barriers and tell the conflicts that didn’t need to be there and I suffered a lot and if you looked into it and and you know it to the late 2000s and what I really begin my recovery process and you know I miss you guys but hit rock bottom and it was either liver die and I chose to try one last time to get better and I’ll be starting to get better than me really struggling through it that I laid it happening is an interesting someone I want to share this cuz it won’t hear the last thing about that is that the with you that the people who buy and most in the most contempt from and the most abusive toward me what are the people who are the PC pumps and tanks and the elitist you know ya 2000 error get out new hardcore punk Center that pumps and I mean completely different person will not allow me when I when I when I really I recognize that the PC and all those people were not my friends at all and really did not give a crap about me except I was a good L I was just fodder for the for the internet message boards that the people who really embraced see people the people who are the people who you know you know we’re all grown up punk rockers and and and Let It Go who works in a PC who said things that like you know harmed and Ed Embrace fully and with no issue and many majority actually of the PC and just send me an actively participating and end in not treating me well and increasing with disrespecting a lack of understanding and it’s just that people who are you know very much in the PC crowd anarcho-punk crowd and all of those people that they have reasons why they stick together that way and that’s how they express myself and I think most of those people are very insecure and need to be a part of a pack to be able to feel feel like that’s what I don’t like how I’m treated sometimes and understand that people do what they do that kind of life and I’m not going to condemn them to it looks like good friends are not from the PT anarcho-punk Brad they are people that a lot of people might not necessarily has the best picture say about Grace to me I’ve been supportive and nurturing me it was there for me when the very people who like and I work really take responsibility for me what does beef to make peace and I’m really generally you feel pretty comfortable you know people don’t know who see my issue I don’t I don’t take it personally realize that people do and say what they do because they had experiences or whatever they had going on their life they haven’t spoiled them to act that way and I do my very best that I’m not perfect I make mistakes but I do my very best to embrace that reality that people act in certain ways into things to say things because of their experiences and then I’m not going to feel bad about it and lock it up. I’m going to try out that at the reasons why and I may not have any idea what those reasons are and they have to do with insecurities are or like mob mentality but really doesn’t matter cuz I know I’m better off into it and they want say what they want and you know what else we going to get up and be healthy life and grasses that those people left my life or are they want to embrace me wholeheartedly and it’s very interesting that that this is what I experienced as I continue to experience a punk rocker you can imagine and if you want to talk about giving the and that’s good enough for me and doesn’t matter to me is there a PC pong or chaos pong or a skinhead of whatever variety or whatever because whatever reason walk up to that talk Siri speak about my experiences of what I’ve been through and I like them in my life better that tells me that they get it we have something in common and that even a society as often to devenish answering people for certain things that they say and do I don’t want to do that I want to stay on estate I embrace you because I recognized that whatever it is that would also saying about your battery this is that is that really you just suffered he had a tough life and things weren’t fear and you just do the best you could you survive and treating people badly or say horrible things but I understand all that stuff all over here is all those decisions are directly impacted by Twila Paris and at things that happened that I can’t possibly know about and I’m not going to condemn. Just like I don’t want to be condemned by others as I felt so much in my life being torn down by others and other people so very complicated social life is complicated your boss seems a very specialized Punk scene that is pretty much you have to understand that you can have a cheer like crust punk shows and whatever they called TV now and I will spare part of this crew in this guy’s not so often is so sexualized but I try to get the gauge of anybody who wants to talk and I don’t really care healing moments of the saying yeah I get it you’re fucked up I get it it happened so you want to do what do you want to go from here to honoring appreciating sake so cold so cold more like Street Punk kind of Cloud V I was just checking with anthropologically studying different shows and you know during all over and stuff and there is something sacred about the circle pit and that that that’s Been to Spain by Spinoza different more old-school types of pumpkins where you were there and that’s like a really it’s like a it’s like a putting the the mind on spin cycle in a washing machine is this total punk rock group exorcism I study Tantra and and different Pharmacy you know spiritual Traditions from India and China and stuff and it’s like purification and releasing you know the the energies that are negatives that attach to a sin that act like vampires and want to create more misery and suffering in the world and our happy tooth are you happy to disguise themselves in a variety of different ways people are just accepting and tolerating this extremely toxic amount of negative emotional poisoning that is going on in them in their bloodstreams constantly with all of the Slime Wars on forms and stuff just all of this on cerebro and disconnected from the heart like just noise of conflict that that that just becomes this norm and you go into like an activist meetings or even like a house meeting at a supposedly enlightened you know Community House Savannah kiss or a ton of people and people are just waiting to tear each other apart and just create more more hell and more suffering and and Mori girl in more Agony and around all that stuff and it’s nice since I’ve gotten into more different esoteric Traditions that acknowledge you know that John the human psyche is so sort of inhabited space where the things that are making our lives hell or actually like discrete entities are organisms that are subsisting off of our energy and functioning on a plane of existence that are not visible to our to our normal five senses so with psychedelic Shamanism in different forms of deep meditation and even like with Tantra is it did the use of sexual energy as as a medicine for purification and in as a way to like this loss exercise these energies these entities Better Living inside of our energy Fields this is an interesting Dimension that I’m really getting deep into bringing back I think both of us have spray and stay out of the sort of punk rock ghetto to seek answers and health and healing for Purcells and now we have gifts that were bringing without any agendas or authoritarian elitism with it but it’s hey this work for me check it out less judgment Less elitism in criticism and write this is the scientific directions that I’m trying to take the clinical psychotherapeutic or psychological approach to a lot of healing traditions of the East that are more symbolic and not even just be supposed to say traditional pre-modern shamanic modes of healing where there’s an understanding of the spirit world and that human beings are basically extremely vulnerable and extremely defenseless especially alone if a human being who is estranged from the orb of healing love light energy that is an intact tribe or Village of people living in Us in an intact natural habitat that’s the molecules of human mental health a baseline of mental health and it’s it’s maintained by shamanic practice tennis go to mediation between the negative forces in the spirit world and his desire of human populations to maintain a state of homeostasis where we’re all loving each other from birth to death know everyone has a purpose everyone is is given sexual access and affection this age appropriate and is abundance throughout their life and then the physical materials security and ecological security is there because in our traditional past as hunter-gatherers you know and then and its various forms of Horticultural societies you know there was at intactness and a couple minutes and then you just literally don’t see the some massive pathologies of organized Warfare and violence then suicide and incest and all these horrific pathologies to the shaman it’s the infection of weekend populations and weekend individuals of these demonic entities that are always there and always Genetically speaking cracks and fractures in our population has been in our individual minds and when drama happens cultural trauma or intergenerational trauma of all kinds we basically become so weak and in so susceptible is like we have psychic HIV or psychic immune deficiency and we’re overrun by these demonic entities that it’s just they’re just happy to disguise themselves as as our personality so we identify with them and say yeah I am this label and the the really hyper elitist intellectual cerebro activist movement people and I was one of them I was really like sharp so I could really hurt people with my voice you know I could really make people feel bad about themselves and so I I was addicted to that and I was totally ignorant and in delusion about it because I thought ya and this is how I’m healing the planet and I’m making a little better place mean well I’m basically becoming an instrument of that same negativity going to like you said and you know some of the stuff is like really complex or esoterica you have to I mean I don’t think you need to face to explain the spirit world I think you can you can have a second traditional psychedelic shamanic ceremony of experience and and have a have a complete visual understanding of the impact of of different of these different things that are attached to a string attached to her thinking and basically pushing Us in farming or negative emotions and that’s getting closer through this Renaissance Inn in clinical psychedelic research studies for the restore of the medical youth legal category 4 for II LX has a different kinds we’re getting closer to this sort of new germ Theory which with which wood with when a microscope with able to with able to discover basically and implicate microbes as the source of of infectious disease the Psychedelic perspective is like the microscope for the for the psyche and for the the sort of structure of the invisible structure of the larger human energy field and being able to look into that and study and explore that with this cool as the Psychedelic medicine is giving giving us an understanding now that can be really revolutionize the the mental health industry and be able to say this word for instance when you have that perspective you can actually see that these medications that people being drugged on the pharmaceutical industrial complex is like spelling and pushing people are actually weakening people’s physical and mental immune system so that they become susceptible to even greater degree of infection and that’s where all this really extremely psychotic side effects are coming in and because we still are in a medical cert is impurity that it ignores the spirit world biggest say that all those are just eating disordered neurons that are somehow being bumped into by this chemical but in fact there’s too much more Sinister thing going on and that you wouldn’t the punk rock mix. Silver Lake West Bismark fist anti-religion anti spirituality total denial of the spirit world because we’re so traumatized by religion you know it’s taking me a long time to relieve have to get a new education on like what what mental illness it really actually is in it and how Commons in various cultures traditional look at these issues in and crying your help for them I see now that what I was blind to for many years that I just accepted because it was I was so blind and so diluted like everyone else in the PC World in the activist communities words if you bring a shaman into an activist meetings in and just have that woman or man with a sketch pads close their eyes scan the room with their third eye and make a sketch of what they see well all these people are just fighting over these Petty semantical things just extremely nasty Eagles assert assertion that is not connected to the heart and not acknowledging the the Oneness and this connectedness that a deeper level that everyone really has not really listening to people when they talk and just waiting till like Karen down with that actually appears like from a higher dimensional space with the people who are trained to be able to operate as surgeons like surgical Exorcist in that space with are going to see is that these people have become habitats for extremely nasty creatures that are able to hack into and spam their mind stream like you said and I need that negativity that grows it’s alive and it and it has is a dimension of an organism make a live Anna Sun another another dimensional plane of reality and so if you have zits and we just don’t we because we don’t normally see that we just take it for granted and just let it run everything and that is exactly what its agenda is and I love what you said about how like yeah you when you when you get so brutalized by that experience that you seek the heart and you go and find the people who didn’t have that type really Destino way of being and they are the ones with Open Hearts that are actually creating space or people that sit to accept each other and like not Take On The World and unsustainable Morley ABY this way but just try to be good people and try to do less harm and be present I had the same the same Journey I really appreciate that and I’ll come full circle back to the end yeah and it’s a PC struggling because people just really want to feel strong and secure and empowered and and this country through all that different things that happened with the military being in Syrian control and and media control and absolutely true pharmaceutical companies which you know I’m not I’m not going to I’m not going to sit and some people benefit from their medication and some don’t know I’m very careful to not say you like I’m either a medication because I I do take the summer off and not entirely sure that I needed and stirring trying to taper off and I’ve already had two doing up sometime but I want people to be able to feel I want to hear that it’s okay to take steps to help yourself and you know our society has is very much very pressuring and very forceful and raised. Smells like Menthol and very unforgiving and I want to get people to know that you know when we are faced with the trauma and addiction that we can serve ourselves and support those around us and helping others make the most informed decisions about how to deal with what they’re struggling with and I wanted people to be careful but can getting medication cuz some people may benefit from it and others can disagree or other and that’s fine I respect those people to a lot of people the reason are Jarritos hurt less than that and feel better and be more stable and successful in life in life and it’s really important for me to know what it is and just because I believe one thing about how to deal with things with my life doesn’t mean that’s right for someone else and get the best thing we can do for those people and I spell it does appear as a friend as a community member I thought you would make the most informed decisions about what to do about their struggle what to do about their information possible to decide to make an informed decision on what they want to do and what major should I choose may be different than another that person might choose to take medication and and meditate and exercise and another person might choose to you no good acupuncture and swim 5 miles a day in only eat a certain specific diet and and go to your house with another person like say I want to see a therapist but I want to only see a psychiatrist who is under the age of thirty who’s recently trained at school and University of the newest techniques has been informed about recovery and information possible which will result in a much better prognosis I think I don’t want to say that take religion III come from a fairly impressive religious background night my feelings Jewish and you know I’m always going to recognize that is 70 benefits from being religious spirituality and of course we recognize that our religion can include spirituality and not be religious so I do respect this Puppy Bowl at my work if you believe in God and pray and you know what I validate that and that’s going to help him get through the day even if my opinion of that help or not may be different it’s irrelevant because my job is to be supportive and helpful. I was really like to believe that God was just this thing I was going to help me and gave me a Higher Learning very much the hard way that that wasn’t the case I’m an atheist now or maybe more like a tent again you know I respect that people do what they do for whatever reason and I don’t want to condemn anybody for making a decision this different than what I believe as far as will you take medication or not you believe in God and not for you or you just help yourself or not even say it was that you mentioned a few minutes ago about your Chanley aware that you’re into that could be used to really cost I don’t want the one I used the wrong word but harm to others and I’m well aware that I also have that similar but I know that intellectually I could use my knowledge and and words to just guesstimate somebody because I am as you can probably tell from this interview station skills that I understand this stuff and I have in it select that will that will allow me to really be that way and I have to work very hard when I’m upset at people or angry people to not use that that little part of my brain that to be so Sinister and malicious because that’s not how they had to live my life and I have to be aware that I fixed her and think sometimes there’s a person with trauma in the struggle that I’ve had that it could be easy to let go and just want somebody to what I consider valuable in my life preserve and including must not in anyway you don’t go looking for complex and must not in anyway participate or feed the fire of a college because just because intellectually I could be an ass yeah man oh well yeah I think we definitely has a lot more to cover and will continue you know what other dialogue I’m going for sure and yeah I think I really like the inclusive shirt of the words you’re using I really empowering to to you know open-hearted and inclusive and accepting I want to acknowledge it is as you said very important to accept everyone where they’re at and I like what you said just getting to the Dayman really that that is what we’re all trying to do and and I see it’s the under that they say namaste acknowledging the Divine and everyone you see and and your similar likeness to them and really speaking at Divine and all things and in keeping your mind open to the truth it’s difficult when free sample we’re taking on these things the pharmaceutical. Show complex yet there’s the Paradox that you can’t just take it away in and have nothing there and you can’t make someone feel bad if they don’t have an alternative and maybe you know it’s it’s it’s a transitional saying it’s going to take a long time to take still took ten thousand years to create this absolute planetary disaster it’s not going to be fixed overnight going to take a long time to heal and and I think the the best thing that we with the punk rock ethics can bring to all forms of whether it’s psychiatric or do differences as a therapy and healing and Recovery is bringing the ethic that itch I think your people should professionals who are providing service should make a living and should be and should be to make it an honorable and decent living that Society acknowledge is the value of and help support and and that ultimately with Society valuing the work that you’re doing and the stuff that I do and other people then it can become more accessible and more available and with more severe access and it’s me know if this capitalistic hierarchy of wealth and privilege and access you know everybody is suffering we all need love and so there’s no so there’s no substitute for Love Is No Love in a pill form the love has to be through the relationship with your community and your family and your you know your romantic Partners in a nature and spirit and you know the divine all that stuff and there’s many different from weight Pathways and cultures are actually like bun all these different ways to have a have entitlement to access love and meaning in connection to the things that are going to keep us happy and healthy and yes we can bring more access than more fair opportunity resources It Whatever all this interventions that that are maybe transitional that we’re having to work with you know whether it’s the pharmaceutical medications or like you know for example you’re flying to Peru to go to the Amazon to spend weeks or months then beeps your vacation ceremony with Ayahuasca shamans and stuff like that that even as transitional because that’s not really sustainable or or local for people and it’s very limited access to people with privilege the punk rock’s. Let’s hack this stuff and Liberate the Technologies and make people in power with DIY Solutions you know and and and just make make it so there’s there’s that we provider on alternative options that are more affordable and and more you know have have integrity to whatever we choose minimizing the feeling of spelling out to anything that we don’t feel like we have integrity with everybody’s fighting a battle and we’ll all be a lot happier when we don’t contribute to perpetuate to that person’s battle or the suffering and instead if we can be understanding and empathetic and choose to not further their own suffering at you not bring us something to the effect of suffering you know we have that control and we must make that choice for her to do what’s right and I’m trying to help bring that that that that way of thinking around and make you go to listen because I believe that happiness and satisfaction for everyone in the world I mean I just wanted to ask if I could is there a website for people before we say goodbye today yeah please do and how come people follow up and get ahold of you thank you about one of my books is called better days and mental health recovery workbook which is a pump that you just people coping skills and the other is a book called you’re crazy which has the first volume at 27% accounts of people from the pump being who you are talking with her experiences with mental health drug addiction and Trauma currently have to call the contribution volume to are you crazy I just have to include people first hand accounts being mean and dealing with addiction and Trauma www.com Center calvary.com so www.bunk1.com and other coping skills workbook can be found at BWW bettordays recovery.com but it is recovery.com and there are sample worksheets and. Seuss on that pays you can download and see for yourself in if we might benefit from coming off my benefit from it at least turn them on to it thank you so much for this opportunity that has been great to speak with you definitely look forward to speaking with you again soon in the future and I’ve been my honor and pleasure to speak with you as much love and respect and up the punx else will talk to you next time to the touch of Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is to see me and improving the podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Township Park. Com namaste