In this episode I’m joined by my new brother in metal, Peter McCormack, host of the What Bitcoin Did podcast. His podcast is one of my top favs in the crypto space and it’s been awesome hearing him drop references to his roots in same underground music scenes that that I’ve grown up in.
He shares about his personal journey of political awakening through the messages in the lyrics of some of his favorite bands and how he got into crypto and podcasting. I was deeply moved by his heart wrenching story of having to be an outlaw to aquire Bitcoin so he could help his ailed mother by purchasing contraband natural herbal medicine.
We discuss the origins of Bitcoin partially being in BitTorrent and how Metallica’s lawsuit against Napster may have been a key catalyst to the evolution of crypto-currency.
We also talk shop about some of our favorite bands, his intentions for wearing a Master of Puppets shirt to the SEC, the future of crypto use-cases for bands and artists, the do-it-yourself spirit, the solidarity among hardcore fans of the 80s and 90s, the Proof of Keys event, and much more.
Please visit his website and podcast at:
And find him on Twitter at
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 181 and I’m being joined by Peter McCormick of the what Bitcoin did podcast and that’s a very interesting set of synchronicities that brought us together in this moment mainly that of all of the cryptocurrency commentators and podcast this and thought leaders that I’ve come across I only very few have really bridge the gap in my life between the politics and the the energy and the Rage of punk rock and hardcore and metal and so is a breath of fresh air when I heard Peter talk about it and start checking out some of his some of his post and what not and and realize that there is definitely some Synergy to talk about the the relevance of these Underground Music cultures and movements in and how how that has informed the politics of technology and how there’s now opportunities for 4 for an interesting interchange of of more of the geek year folks with in the technology development seeing and in some of the more like I’m Nan not as technical folks but people that have same ethics of Liberation and empowerment and a lot of those memes have been have been cultured in in the underground music scene since it’s just a great topic to discuss I’m really excited about it and with that said I’ll just say Peter please tell us, about your personal story how you evolved how you got into metal crypto and everything interesting along it was an easy decision cuz Uncle very few friends left into the Sky music is miso any chance to talk about Punk Ogle meso is it was a pleasure say thank you for that my journey to Ponca I told you about this before was very quick quick migration through a team Soo to discover in the bank by assets so the first metal song I got into Europe The Final Countdown absolutely love that song and my dad is going out and pull me to Europe album back in the day when you had the cassettes your you remember that so I used to listen to the album relentlessly and I was like who these guys with long hair I’ve been discovered Bon Jovi Slippery When Wet dream I had a poster of tempests and a poster of Jon Bon Jovi next to each other both with full makeup long hair and I was like man this stuff is amazing so I had a very short. Of time as a Glam rocker but then my first Iron Maiden song and quickly kind of went through a few of Maiden albums I think it was like Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son of the Seventh Son and then Konig already deep into remember no prayer for the dying love for the album Number 1 in the UK and then from there I started watching hip Angus bull and discuss Guns N Roses Guns N Roses with a massive deal for me cuz that was about the age where I was able still going to come see us and they ended up releasing the usual Lucien albums so I ended up kind to Milton Keynes to wash my best console which was Guns N Roses the cult Soul Asylum in The Blind Melon No Rain by Blind Melon do they were kind of moron the alternative site is incorrectly it wasn’t that dress you everything because the first time I saw her alive so he kind of never forgot that I just kind of rushed and they came out so loving that and then I was watching Headbangers ball on why hasn’t came on and they have this song punishment with a wheel jumping over the Brooklyn Bridge and I was like what the hell is this is kind of metal but this is but they’re not dressed like messages and I wish I’d become a skateboarder in the times I was wearing kind of what would you say like she knows I have to chain belt with the wallet over in like baggy t-shirt so I wasn’t dressing like a melon but listen to metal when does hardcore think I’m in the wrong and it was like these people dressed like me and then listen to a full of mess with this kind of a little bit ratty so it’s a little bit cooler and I was kind of like just discovered like Cypress Hill on onyx and House of Payne all this kind of stuff converged at one time and I felt like you could be a meth lab but be kind of cool to the same time and then yeah then I went deep into hardcore I never left if I tell you what happened with Hulk off of me I was quite interesting was the next song I had a bye bye has over this song Shades of Grey and it opens with there is no black and there is no white and all well that’s only Shades of Grey no racism fuck racism you know and then when she still going for that music and go to these messages about like positivity and you know I know discrimination and I was like this is cool like the other stuff I listen to it like me listen to Guns N Roses song about taking drugs and partying to attach myself to the lyrics but then I was listen to buy a house and it was all kind of like messages and positivity and I can get behind some of the messages are bit over-the-top right but from there then I discovered Earth Crisis and that was like a really big deal for me cuz that was like the next step. I never managed to do the whole stretch think I kind of wanted to but might have a beer but I was told he would then message right like even though it wasn’t straight edge I totally got the message I told you going to see and understand what they would do in you know I’d come down to lunch my first one the first times I was about to go to London and we have this skateboard shop income and Garfunkel Slam City skates I went in there and the dude with the downstairs talk what you got is like if you heard of prices is like even need this in your life and he gave me a couple of The Firestorm EP I like if you know of Crisis like everyone annoys us a song as far as I know you know what it was I had my Discman members that used to jump you have to be really steal to listen to the next in kept jumping so so I was like yeah I was like I was in the hog who I was until the straight-edge I listen to the skate music not so much the punk and hardcore like I was never really Gorilla Biscuits never really cro-mags although it was all kind of more like by Isaac snapcase Integrity of Crisis 25 to Life sick of it like in the next wave who came through and yeah I never stopped listen to Listen to I listen to today by listen to the motive and listen to Summer hits of genres like I’d really like some of that moved at school like I like I love Norma Jean Architects the song I’d like anything which is methyl pump meso hog whole mess will that that’s me and yeah I guess you were so you see the crossover to print 7 and I guess I kind of always been this how do I put it without sound like an idiot like a middle-class and a kiss right like I mean I watch hard they put me into a good school gave me everything I could possibly want you know we didn’t have a lot of luxury the weirdest solid upbringing so I was you know I was going to school while surrounded by Rich Kids and kids you know it’s kind of fell a little bit of felt like I was trying to read Noam Chomsky and get into Noam Chomsky and struggled but I did read a lot of jumping the Injustice is always kind of I don’t know sometimes I’m a Fool maybe I’m I’m a bit too much of a socialist which of the Libertarians and Bitcoin hey but I’ve always felt like this in justices I wish I could do them all to help and I was like to be a little bit Anna kiss the rebel you know if I got my hands tattoos you know if I go to a meeting I’m going in there with my child so I went to the SEC interview has to pay is in my Metallica t-shirt like the most things in my car I want to stick two fingers up the system by Carnival line but then. Came from under privileged background or anything I just think it cost me something inside of me but I definitely see that hole you know the similarities between crypto anarchism in hardcore punk awesome yeah me too but that’s why I feel like it’s a I have the same same feelings and thoughts about the that the tension between libertarianism in an anarcho-capitalist and then the the more socialist more communal kind of collectivist sometimes even I would just I guess it’s probably the influence of Marxism and anarchism in the the politics of Street Punk and even the metal bands no talking about smashing the state in in different ways but it’s it’s interesting at the go and start joining the crypto movement and seeing that there’s this super well-established very successful wing of the event Turkish movement that is actually not eating out of dumpsters and begging and doing the Sid Vicious thing or the self-destruct paternalistic political philosophy of anarchism like to really negative and really hopeless there is a lot of that narrative in in the punk seems that I was involved in and going out for the yeah I get that so how have you ever had so cool I mean I saw the picture of you at the SEC with the master of those least so I don’t like wearing a suit I used to have a company and write a business partner and he was great we work very well together like I was I was always the one with the ideas like a hundred ideas take them back to make some happen anymore but I never wore suits I was always in t-shirt and jeans I was always like look I’m coming as maybe I’m coming Roar and I’m going to give you everything I’ve got right I’m not going to wear a costume I guess that maybe that’s that I can smoke pot and I’m not going to wear a costume like if I’m going to Barclays for meeting I’m done with me I’m going to bring your suits on to see all but as soon as long as I’m getting married because I think I want to look at the car or put a suit on cuz I’m going to someone’s wedding cuz I want to be respectful of that passes wedding cuz I respect them but if you’re asking me for me saying you’re no better than me and I’ll know better than you want to come with me and you guys even like if we do business great but I’m not dressing up what happened with the CC think some people said to me oh was that like we were master puppets is like a hidden message and it was like know who knows no way they could that would be very disrespectful to Hester has to give me the interview know it was I’m not too bad Bobby Axelrod in billions like I don’t know if you remember this monster puppet Steve smells like I like him like he’s a capless he doesn’t give a fuck if you liked his master one that’s me so I’m going to I’m going to wear mine and I’m going to a picture NECC wearing wearing the T-shirt because I think for me it was like it was a good combination of the anarchism of like cryptocurrency Bitcoin alongside the kind of State corporate government regulate regulatory side of the SEC and I just thought it’s like it’s a really nice manager of the two and I just thought I would be big for a really cool picture and thought it was no way to disrespect as the past with some people feel cuz I have nothing but respect for the rice am I really appreciate her work so I think she probably appreciates it too and maybe who knows she could be a headbanger in and just as opposed to buy Metallica t-shirt have to wear a suit without a will kick you out if you turn the fan on you know I just having a fast right now about Megadeth and the politically insightful covers that they had with their I can’t remember if they had a name for their mascot but it was it was kind of like the Eddie of iron maiden’s they had the skeleton with the bolted eyes shut and all in all these different corporate contacts there was one reason wearing a suit peace sells but who’s buying that and images I just feel like this is is it’s almost like an album cover you know that that’s why the you were born but the first one they have a bull myself was the single for Hangar 18 by Megadeth which to me now is a time of it’s still an incredible song the amazing and I still want to go running cuz I’d like to run like my first song I usually put on it’s going to be coming to get me, and it’s usually one two three song it’s either this song by Machine Head the blackening in the reason for that is because I just a minute song I like you know when I’m when you’re running to songs you always conscious of how much time he sounds like for 5 minutes yeah if I listen to the blackening of John 11 minutes when that’s gone and I’m happy right I’m willing to the run but if I need to pick me up these are they going to be Hangar 18 by Megadeth course Pantera song I still listen to Megadeth Hangar 18 when I go running I pulled that song. 2016 is a guy on cassette this is so this this is really getting to the heart of what I want to touch on which is that there is so much frustrated Punk and metal antagony towards the state and the man and the system and it wasn’t it wasn’t so well articulated about the fed and the banks and globalization and all that stuff but it’s I’m I would just be dying now to hear what Dave Mustaine and Jay set field and all of the other thought leaders in metal have to say about this moment of opportunity if they if they could read the Bitcoin whitepaper and you know what is leading up to this interview when I was thinking about just meditating on the value of Howell metal and punk has shaped my attitudes towards the estate and money and all that and I thought about how there would be no big coin if it wasn’t for Metallica going on the Rampage against Napster thus creating BitTorrent isn’t that a trip have you ever thought about that how that that whole kind of klusterfuk happen and that was it, I started Napster Sean and unlock Maps my slot with my best mate and we discovered that I was just like download whatever you want instantly I loaded up on you or you might not remember this the first MP3 player was the Diamond Rio and you would load it up with your songs are you get anything instantly and it was just like this is incredible Metallica try to shove them down at 5 and I was like yeah Metallica lesson and I was always comes and Roses when it comes roses be Metallica I was with Guns N Roses I’m at Metallica Guns and Roses were a bit more treble I don’t know why but I always remember when the MTV Awards are on metallic are in the crowd of showing finding comes out like after he stay suit him he comes out and I was like yeah sure that’s going well played the great thing about Metallica suing Napster is is the whole centralized V decentralized and centralized right you could sue it to close it down and then you go to all these things like this hard you can close down batard to this day you can go on any number of mirrored Pirate Bay’s and use your eye like a VPN and just access to download stuff for free you can still do it because it’s orange is decent why won’t see centralized it was not what I know is like Metallica exposed to flu in the Napster motor which United Torrance have this is exploited By The Crate so make sure the kids to bed write this is so fascinating and you wouldn’t except for In This Moment of real metal Geeks would you actually I mean it wasn’t in the Satoshi white paper and he’s like thanks to Metallica for pushing the technology forward towards peer-to-peer distributed networks for you could free pizza the systems that are decentralized in Camp and have their head list they can’t they can’t be arrested they can’t be brought down because you would have to take down the internet and you had to take down everybody participating internet and so yeah it’s quite a fascinating history with just that moment that says neglected invite a lot of people to know if you saw a point completely off topic but just while we hit it cuz it’s just like that to me like a man oh yeah right did you ever read the inlay card to Countdown to Extinction Ikea it’s not it’s not too coming to me right now off to bed now you know what I want to see cop kicked out of Metallica you know he just he lost Willy Wonka golden ticket right now and then he sees Metallica just go from strength-to-strength like they release ride the line with him to the mall and then they were days Ride the Lightning but then they were these pop hits and then they release Injustice for on the black guy I need just become huge right all right. But he wanted that was number one album in a to validate himself that like Megadeth Countdown to Extinction because that we how was nowhere came what’s his name Ricky whatever I lived Livin the Vida Loca what does it say Ricky Ricky Martin you know the Latina Danza tell me the Vida Loca you know the song Outside Inside Out released in the same week of Megadeth by Puritans like it may be that the one we got it they would have the us out for number one and they didn’t answer that day I know it cuz I know you always feel sorry for him because he he like he was in Metallica he lost the golden ticket to the Chocolate Factory and he did it again he did start another band who had epic amounts of success and I just kind of always felt sorry for that mistake sorry I taking a completely off topic that a lot of people that know that pop maker test and I think I think they should actually know I’m all into this man where this is all this is all point because the reason I was thinking about that reference to the history of Napster and in Metallica is that at that beautiful documentary some kind of monster they go into all this stuff and they showed the moment where Dave Mustaine I believe it was Lars Ulrich and Dave Mustaine are hanging out and processing with a therapist the the agony that he fell out but that’s how these things evolve a tub and of all that mean y’all say I’ve been in bands for most of my life and I have experienced all these different dimensions of you know you do what you got to do when you got to do it and yeah it’s it’s it’s it’s a trip if we can move into some of the this is what I find so fascinating is the the way that punk and metal we could talk about the the economic theories that are that have been I mean very effectively pumped out to the masses with with all of these like the way that if you’re if you’re into Punk and metal and you see a business suit you see that that as a representative of the state of capitalism of everything that you’re supposed to be smashing into Extinction and from this so many different bands that have anthems about about politics and economics in various forms of ecological social environmental rights environmental justice and less definite it’s just a for me it was always a a disempowering kind of narrative that you know will never succeed Will Never Be A revolution is kind of a fantasy and will always just be disgruntled about being even if we’re not impoverished we’re still sort of like trapped within this Illuminati thing and it’s just been raised and rebellion and but but not very sophisticated and there was nobody in the punk and metal scene that would have said to me like yeah you should have to go study economics you should go study technology and computer science and and you will be able to liberate yourself with math and with cryptography and know that there that just reminded me of a band as well that I didn’t even mention in the list of company about the Gulf Coast Punk and hardcore a mess with people I always explain one bad news I think probably the most important punk bands of the hotel right always always get people to scream a special proper punks rice Punk is Rage Against the Machine I know I’m always liked was no no then they just an empty V band and I’m like know what they did is they bridge messel and no mess they made Maxwell open to everybody else and they came with such a powerful strong message and in some ways like through everything I’ve listened to like my entire history music there is one album that that has been a constant staple and that’s been rage against machines rage against machine every single song is good which is very very rare these days you know I struggle with his name five albums that every single song is good but on the album every single song is good on this time is a test of time they could go on stage now play the whole album now and it would sound like who is known for their instruments no one else has done and they will come in with a message and they will go and pick us everyone they shut down Wall Street I mean that’s not a punk bands like yeah but you have to know exactly where his roots right he was an inside out across the punk band but he did rage against machine is a benefit from it what he has a punk Oracle background like he was in that scene rage against machine is a pom pom to me I tend to agree with you yeah actually I I was blessed to be at the the DNC protests where they were they were instructed by the lapd’s that if they did anything to incite a riot they will be culpable I didn’t see that that may have been but this was La around 2001 I believe in and it was so yeah it was beautiful man people took to the streets it was like this massive breach of thousands and thousands of people right in the heart of downtown LA and just flanks of Riot cops and just say I’m here for you in and out to be in suits chlorella is placing my favorite place in the world Twitter is in Venice somebody apartment Adventist you know he’s one of these weird places right that most people when they get it cuz they get there they go to Hollywood and that life is that it and then they don’t know what to do with themselves cuz it’s not together you can walk from Grand Central to Central Park and you go to La you have to live if a live that and you have to go to Venice and Santa Monica and downtown and discover these little balls outside restaurants will go to Calabasas will go for a hike you have to be there for a while to understand what I asked about and I think once you’ve list that you got a few Consciousness as a tourist we get it almost everyone I know it said that it was a disappointment pause a good point yeah it’s it’s more about it’s it’s very laterally spread out because there is the space and it’s not just as some islands you know what people on the East Coast so used to weigh more vertical and stacked kind of ant farm kind of living and I love these goes to you know I’ve been there number times mostly touring with bands and experiencing that that sector but I agree that the la la the geography of the LA culture it’s it’s you got to you got to spend time getting yourself around in and digging event the rage against machine man love that band I agree and I think they’re under there was a time I think the topic of you know a lot of people in the deepest underground scenes are just very hostile towards success and that’s another sort of shoot yourself in the foot problem you know there was a documentary called punk attitude and I think it was it was expressed at some point in their that’s like punk rock seems to have a sort of debilitating resistance to success and so people just want to kill themselves and drown themselves in the bottle and and drugs because is the success kind of distorts their sense of being the underdog and there’s no confidence there and if the other genres hip hop never had a problem scaling up to huge success and even metal bands were far less shy about monetary success but it’s so I’m wondering for you as we could go into the have you found a lot of other people that give you the sort of wink and Nod about the more subversive more underground kind of Ethics that come from the music scenes in finding that in in the world or is it just a completely different approach to different Pathway to to the politics of Anarchy plus I thinking crypto people finding different ways and their pills of a different ways at different times like last time I discovered that it’s in the stool I discovered in 2013 as a way of buying things online we need to go into details of that and then kind of forgot about it and then I got back into it. We are all Caillou really going to bitcoin and my mom is my mom is dying from cancer and cannabis oil treatment with a coin and yes it’s illegal but when your mom’s doing you don’t really care about to go with you just want to get her treatment and the ability to buy that treatment for a nobody can stop me and was amazing and with that I was kind of like okay I got this now this is kind of a big deal but the first 6 months to a year in crypto is Radio just making money I was just making really good money on it anyone I think most people can’t I wanna get lost in in Mami at times like I did all this money and I was traveling to while I am back and just live in this great life but in doing my podcast you know I’ve had some massage would love more more about what’s going on in the wall to buy Bitcoins rather than her Nana life suddenly become a little bit more like a k e Anika side to this is more like the the free. I’d rather say cuz sometimes comes this negative connotation you know it like it’s the G8 a meeting that’s going to be a smashing the place outright I just think the freedom and liberty that comes with some of my Bitcoin is truly incredible but what I have noticed is the northern the weight comes from when somebody like I I drop little Slayer of Matlock on every now and again they’ll be someone like you like a cool woman in me and him have become good buddies like online. He’s going to marry her life that we talkin bout we always like that and I think there’s that kind of you know someone if you are like friends with him he’s about your age like 40 years and they know Pantera and Faith No More and they weren’t Alice in Chains with rage against Machine music from the early nineties you know you had a similar kind of life of a life that shaped you write the way I see it is from about 1340 when you start to get a bit of freedom for your parents up until kind of like early twenties where I used to have to think about become responsible I think that. That’s how you know that person I think they come to a concert by the consequence of the parents probably doesn’t know they come to make you doubt they’ve gotten out of bed when they’ve been like 15 at the back of a Pantera gay Gwar Koenigsegg and they staged dog and then it going to school with that like Marilyn Manson patch on that back and some on that bag or something that’s going to be something like dick in schools turn around to take cuz I like I got my music constantly kind of they just kind of got a kid in a mortgage and over that kind of stand the stuff that you end up getting when you get older but you know you know you were several of us you know you’re going to go another bairn you can have a simple conversation you probably kind of similar friends and syphilis views on life I kind of like that so I guess that’s why I kind of trying to find that music yes, those two are we also it is my friend used to call it the international Punk not it’s just that you see somebody that has that some emblem of identification with the desota Underground Music scenes in the culture gigs and mosh pits and what not and there is an immediate solidarity and hours appreciate that and will always add to the Xfinity I have four people you know to know ya you’ve you’ve been raging in the pit so I’ve been I’ve been off since I put out that big toy story about losing all the money right I’ve been off like 15 times to come and put gas and I’ll say yes to anyone anyone I’ll make an hour and a half because when I lost my podcast I’ve relied on the same night and even took today I would lie on the same people giving up that time and space museum you want to come up with that guy is when you came out you said I’d like the pumpkin the hardcore want to talk about that with you is like right in this is the one I want to do this guy gets there I want to go in there I want to talk about owning somebody’s can I listen to it because the only time I really like I’m in this music is when I go for a run on down the gym and I put it on when I put on my headphones and I listen to like most of the time I don’t get a chance to talk about apart from my daughter and she’s like some of it is like a Hatebreed someone she really likes unless there’s like a song by like Iron Maiden she likes what she likes that you are so right but most of the time so yeah I ceased when you came and you said you want to do is like yeah I’m in I’m in Manistee this yeah well I would say that it’s interesting that it seems I know there’s the Tatiana moroz I believe is one of the early crypto music artists who did some some form of tokenization of her her stuff and then I know who Joe music is the ethereum blockchain based project to disintermediate the intellectual property Monopoly that is embedded in the music industry and what not have you come across any any folks in in whatever genre music but you know be great Punk and metal that seems like we’re the punk and metal artists are behind the curve when it comes to the crypto blockchain next generation of even the music industry so have you have you pondered that or thought about that or kind of made any connections there I just think it’s still so early Saturday days and I guess I guess you need exposure to a maybe they haven’t discovered there or I don’t see it takes a long time to read together like some really really good and I’m really coming I’m coming up now ready to two years and it was kind of going to buy the stuff in my mom like I know as there’s so much I don’t know but I know a lot more than I did something is not to click now starting to get it I think we way too early even for the Amicus Sue to really understand what I’ve seen a few rappers talk about it because I guess is it’s about making money in wrappers or what about making Benjamin but I don’t think the crossover has come yet because I don’t see nothing but still too early I still something that’s enough of people do to grab the crap yet but I think it will come yeah I agree I’ve noticed that I kind of had goes back to that shyness that you were just a bit attractive but yeah the early adopters the hip-hop artists were not asleep at the wheel with this stuff and want you know some of them started getting into Bitcoin even before it was that big of a thing and now they’ve got real gains to to play with so that’s that’s a very very interesting and and also I mean it is something is so deeply tickled inside of me when I hear government Regulators talk about cypherpunk and crypto energy and how they have to know retool themselves to catch up with these technological revolutions that are rooted in all of these extremely radical and an anti authoritarian Tendencies and I just think this is so yeah you being at the the SECU the Securities and Exchange Commission to have a conversation about really you know I’ll put it in my in my words how the powers-that-be are going to have to adapt to this math math based Anarchist cryptographic Revolution there this is like the first time in hundreds if not thousands of years that there has been a a power a rebalancing and a check and balancing of the powers of these these really in trench systems so and I thank you for being a part of that that shifting and balancing of of powers now was a pleasure to be part of it I mean it was a real kind of course I want to want and like a lot of really bad has happened in The Last 5 Years. 3 minutes and I was not a small detail guy said if I store Apple’s trajectory and I’m making good money but in some ways kind of lost my way as well and I was doing mine are not as kind of building an agency and I wanted to screw with the big agencies and take them home by Jim is a cruise companies you know I would like just companies that dunk at my job is helping us help get them selfie with shit they don’t need and you know I kind of I don’t know if it was like you would probably say cuz you’re a little bit more grounded the band in the spiritual side you’ll probably say it’s all this was going to happen for a reason you know that this is you a Johnny blah blah blah blah you know whether it was just a bunch of coincidences but I lost everything in my life my mom I lost my family to my divorce I lost my company of my mental health everything went over the space so you know three three years I mean I’m a dumb from getting married I just got married I love you to family beautiful wife who I have toward the successful company money in the bank at a Porsche home at the house. Holidays like I had everything and it went and then I hit rock bottom and I remember the Rock Bottom whatever and most of the substance abuse or the results of substance abuse where I would be your mom was when was in my house for the first time I was I was doing drugs not to get high but to get back to parity like I feel so rough. I would do and then feel like normal Robin doing it to be high and I was like I remember that night thinking you know I would be going in and out of the shower panicking and just it was awful and I was like okay this is this is bad right you’re a very bad place there’s another time when I had a panic attack on the Underground Chief station and I would have off the train in the paramedics came and they stripped myself to do an ECG on the rush hour by people under pause which was tied to the Grave Digger every buildings and I was like how do I do this again like a Comstock company going to 10 of the energy account commute to London anymore cuz of the Times by Charles is Bitcoin thing happened because my mom died which is awful questions and then Sunday I find myself lying out to Washington to go to the SEC to interview has to pass I’m like how the fuck is this happen and then yeah I remember leaving that interview and I’m going back to my Abby and being like having a cigarette and sitting on the wall lights to be so we’d times like these things that happen you just yeah it’s just very strange I do not even know if you want to give you that I just kind of went a little story please and I actually that that’s what endears you to me a lot is that the personal aspect and how you really the way you got into Bitcoin as well and how it’s just it’s always just a testimony to how empowering and liberating the technology is and yeah I really appreciate how much effort you put into Earp your project the web Bitcoin the what Bitcoin did podcast can you talk about just the evolution of the podcast and how you actually seems like you have a very meteoric rise and and honestly of all of the crypto Bitcoin blockchain media that I consume it really stands out the work that you’re doing the level list of research that you’ve done in the equality of the guests and you’re the way that you’ve gone after in-person meetings and all that stuff is just seems like a a real higher level of quality put into the project I’m wondering cuz you have like a a moment of insight where you said you know I’m going to bring value to the community by doing a podcast since you not like a coder per say or what was that story about this is my real big plan like the best of the podcast Reedy was just part of a series of events you know I discovered Bitcoin and crypto bull everything all these different shape coins made loads of money than my friends wanted to get into it that’s why you like crazy male robin to tell him to meet you in the picture day which was like an introduction to the original one I sent out to everyone must excuse me and said that the people and then people like what should we buy what should we buy and so did a Facebook group for my friends and you have a hundred people joined and I would just say that to this is what I’m reading on this one thing going to buy an avatar for my chores he said to me yeah right so he understands Google you should think about doing a Blog we thought that we just going to show somebody is Bound for most of the time trying to come up with the name he was like we were just as a joke like we have his wife entitled the king of Bedford which is so embarrassing but like it needed became that name thank God it didn’t but we expect snow must be the king of it but we just so I know it’s the website but I would write about it and I love the Old Post have been deleted now cuz I don’t even agree with him but I was just writing to understand and then you know I I I was like why is he not actually funny funny thing I didn’t tell you I don’t like the first issue front cover was a band hookah skunk anansie who were playing in Bedford so I got to click on that interview and Xena Me podcast consoles are free again the CDs afraid that your problem is it’s getting your first interview how does a 14 year old girl but we have this little which is kind of a cold then you you you know what bands are on like like secret to little ask was and we had a bank with skunk anansie play so I knew the guy who was the event is he on the sky so I went down to her when I was like yeah can you let me do an interview. I did that the distance CD reviews and released with us tissue but that issue I said Run for the rental companies move to do the store at 2 and I want to show off today releases on blind because I was the most unimportant when they put me in for us so I liked it a really crappy time I interviewed Vinnie Paul from Pantera and I interviewed the down set hike all these bands at the gate with the one of those Old Dixie Forest River the dictaphone World on that go to my friend Tom’s dad’s estate agents would like to print out copies giveaway gig 6s when I used to get like these packs of CDs every week with 5 10 15 CDs I can send you a photo of any CD’s still there but I finish school with uni I wanted to stop fencing again online didn’t have the money to do it so my off my first year you need I stay behind I used to walk who died in the carpentry shop and then come back to me even though man takes them out so I learn how to build websites and then I started getting off the money by my landlord off me to go to website. Double cut your business he paid me $450 mind I was in I was working in the carpentry supplies full-time an hour so I was like okay this is cool that’s like sound like a hundred hours working and I didn’t like a day and then this recruiting company called Springfield can you build a website and I just found out that message a fine I was like this is insane this is the company of London countries during the first. Come by and they were like can you come here and can you like help us build this. Come we got whatever Millie’s investment how about ya and I like with the NFL I’m like okay I can take that severe mind I was like NM property other than what’s 40 * 160 week like what you need a website and then agency and then this time my friends had like your website I think you said I had a meteoric rise like I think one of the things that’s what well for me is all this background in like the first thing I knew I had to get my interviews right and I know interviews me to interview so I got in touch with Jameson lopp very early on this is going to come out to North Carolina do with you and by the way I’ve never shot a gun and I want you to take me to shoot a gun an interview as a vegetarian at the time you took me to a barbecue place and I didn’t have the heart to tell him so I ended up eating barbecue and then you show me to the gun range of a shotgun and I’m from the lucky that I think the reason the podcast some quiet so I can write a good set of gas and they’ve introduced me to the next guest but it will save my background in like Cabanas so I got a lot of work when I chew your show all those banners could come see my interviews. I genuinely find the stuff difficult to understand like genuinely I’m like I’ll get it I don’t understand that I get out I think that’s made out with the podcast is that you know I’ve asked questions other people want a while she’s probably sounds quite humbling because it is and then I had that kind of background of my family have known how to get like the important ingredient to get gas and then my back hurting boxing so I guess a whole bunch of great something I guess I guess my punk ass is just a combination of my background it doing the fans and boxing and digital marketing and just cut out who I am as a person that’s so cool and that. Just sit just bringing back this Cascade of memories of what it was like with black and white Xerox machines and like you said finding a hookup for a copy Earth if you could get a hookup to copy yours and you were still golden back in the 80s 90s you know when that and and I have a similar experience and it just it what Rings true for me is just that the spirit of do-it-yourself that’s what is unifying the punks and the meddlers in the hardcore and the cryptographers an open-source movement in all of the crypto Anarchy a sense of people say crip the Savages and it says that the unifying concept is is just being a power to go out and do it yourself and not you know not wait for permission not wait for Wayfair Venture funding and you can see that there are more resilient projects in the crypto space or the ones that that weren’t really over-leveraged in pandering to Ico money in the ones that are actually out there and I’m not to be judgmental or critical but but we but I like the way people say Bitcoin was in the accurate conception and it’s a headless Hydra that can just go and take over so many sectors of planet and now I have that central point of failure and just touches I guess I guess some people make some accusations of me sometimes it’s like you just become a Bitcoin Maxima so you just hang around with Bitcoin maximalism around 1:59 interviews now and if I’m a 3-day prep by prep for an interview as everything else I read I’m saying it like my opinion where I go to that is the conclusion for 59 interviews all the crap all the readings he hasn’t asked if I sound like a maximalist is because that’s what makes sense to me that’s where I’m on kind of that right now now I’m not a full Maximus but I’m not far off right and I just the thing about my podcast is quiet like anyone has been there for me stopped quite transparent me followed my journey of kind of what I learned and understood but I think what’s come out of that is like you’re bored and sorry for swearing but it’s so important. He Ledger or some like I don’t know just like some of this absolute nonsense out there if anything like let’s go to war because yeah where at where am I in time where are the People by removing the time now where we are all surveilled all day everyday online offline cameras like everything we do you know what Financial transactions where I would go out of the country problems everyone fighting with each other and then we could Bitcoin controls right nobody can really control decentralized the office I can do way of considering money I’m at the office where breaking the rules with math in the pool right now that I want to put most of my energy into laugh and I want to get away from all the noise will the distractions has stopped. Help. My stuff back when becoming what it can be because we might never get a chance like if you thought this out we might never get a chance like this again and I think that’s super important yeah I hear you there it’s just every day every day that goes by what you’re saying comes more becomes more clear and goes warm to focus in weather people are speculating on going to the moon and quick riches and what not or if it’s really deeper into the the ethos of it and the and the ethics of it I’m tight end to be always say the was if this is actually a question I’ve had for you since I’ve listened to your podcast I think I got I got in I’ve been a religious fanatic of your podcast going back to several months when you had an interview with Lynn Albrecht brazo bricks mother the political prisoner from the Silk Road and and have been following you since then and something that that I am interested in your your thoughts on too kind of elaborate is that I think you’ve asked a couple people here and there but you said something to the effect of do you have this concerned that the the new stablecoin projects are in a way attack and attack on bitcoin could you could you explain a little bit more cuz I’m I’m I’m considering the value of these newer stablecoins and it’s certainly a it’s a it’s a way more digestible narrative for onboarding new people into the power of crypto as far as bypassing the choke points of banks in and payment processors that don’t allow you to say certain things are not allowed in their terms of service but you can use any crypto to transact value online but now I’m leaning towards the stable coins at least as a crutch until Bitcoin kind of stabilize is overtime but but I’ll be interested yet to hear you kind of you can go off about why why you feel like people should be second-guessing this obviously the centralized ones but just in general that attack stablecoin doesn’t attack on bitcoin what does that mean for you fuzzy thank you for listening to do with little braids pink Floyds off me my favorite to you and I don’t see what that first one was my favorite by Fall because we didn’t really talk about Bitcoin and it’s very awesome story how do I create a political prisoner break his now friend of mine she you know we actually text each other today we talk regularly in Vegas just like Alexa from Ross thank me for supporting them and that’s a huge important so using voice because it’s me the Revolutionary that’s so much misinformation about him he should be in prison if you believe in the laws of the land but no way should he spend the rest of his life in prison I hear conversation about the right to choose and he he is a reason I was able to buy a treatment for my mother when she was time for cancer and I will stand up in front of anyone to say to them in my shoes if you stood there with your mother she’s never cancel it you two you two will probably break the rules to the kind of treatment to relieve the suffering and I believe that is so important I thank you for listening to that stable coins haha you know what it’s an interesting one from loving to hating I guess the the thing is for stable coins is in a pool business wild innocent X functional while they have a use case they have a use case they are easy on faucets transactions that money around the world and they would you spell identity. they do take away from Bitcoin and Lotus table coins could take away from Vic Mensa free sample Facebook account I want to properly stablecoin right people that’s taking people who could be buying Bitcoin away maybe they’ll introduce people to pick, but I believe Bitcoin and hard money and soft money so important that yes I see you. But I don’t ever want them to be a priority of a Bitcoin because the thing about stablecoins his Tales from the Crypt really realize that I am I asking the same it’ll be all right so they could have a black hole in sweater Black Swan events in the US that will lead to nest devaluation of u.s. dollar to the same I’m not conversant Maximus run like everything about for Bitcoins to wash it again the used case. We’re going to look if if there is like a semi pseudo decentralized stablecoin was a short-term Solutions $2 Bahrain in FL station with somebody wouldn’t risk Bitcoin yet use a stablecoin to give himself a little bit more freedom to transact rifle do business I get it at the same time I think we need to constantly educate people Bitcoin and encourage big one and it you know another one of my Eureka my mother is coming that I’m forgetting price very very rarely check price I’ve lost so much Bitcoin through bad trading and Mining stupid decisions like I lost like 1897 coin accumulate Bitcoin like that one pic when he was one Bitcoin thing is not about the money tree Valley cuz it changes is that what how much Bitcoin account now all I want to do is make sure the end of next year I’ll have more that kind of the way I will do that is by no selling not trading not using but doing what that creates money where I can buy a new Bitcoin and that’s my goal is to say I could make the pug cost usually successful in this is fat 2,000 lb of the end of each month maybe I’ll buy two thousand kind of Bitcoin the end of each month and I’m just going to keep accumulating on this kind of 10-year project I would like to be in a position where I got very significant Bitcoin holding and that’s amazing it’s usually boarded because we got to think about time preference is the journey for Bitcoin to take over and have a big one edition top and isn’t going to be a slow and steady and without want to send it to you so yes table that use case but yeah I agree with you yeah it’s kind of a temporary thing and it really there is no such thing as stable as sort of maybe less volatile on a certain time frame but it’s very it’s funny because the USD coins if the USB goes down and they have to follow along with it then it won’t be a stable going you know Andreas Antonopoulos I loved one of these his jeans you know is is he’s like a comedian and a genius and a you know he’s just such a hero to so many people and the things he said yeah it’s it’s volatile Munich of the Bitcoins volatile but also fiat currency the real Balto do you want to be on an upward trend of volatility or a downward trend of all tail because there’s only one way that the CPI currencies can really go so yeah it’s all semantics right really with you to the health how far you zoom in or zoom out of any chart yeah I mean it’s just like a say to me Bitcoin so important and I always like how how back to you when interviewed Caden long as he said prices the least interesting fact of a Bitcoin for me and I try and think like that you know how I kind of got lost in and get rich off crypto saying and now I’d like over the next year slow down I sure have a stable solid income that comes me a cup of my children, my life and my life stuff and then from there Play movie Gone and focus on Pitkin and just forget about price focus on the growth of the technology that use case and maybe with my book called educating people but get away from this kind of get rich from Bitcoin thing cuz that’s that’s not the right thing yeah I agree I have used used it for very practical purposes that exemplify the use case of remittances exemplified yusuke Civ V stunts answerable value transfer and you know for those who can afford to hot oil and a half Ford to hold it and speculate and save than you know that’s more power to the Toddlers and for people who just need to use it for you know I was having a conversation with with a friend recently where it’s like no matter what no matter what the volatility is that’s going to be all based on the the more advanced Traders and speculators and Market players and I’ll go Bots and all that stuff but as far as they your grandma or someone who is sending money to family members in a country that they are you know from but they’re not working in and they’re just doing the ribbons is as long as this this bulletproof kind of armored car that can travel from me from your location with your value across the internet to someone else you want to cash it out immediately and you know it might be a slippage of a couple fraction to percent given the time it takes for you know the six confirmations or whatever on the network know it’s still is always going to be stable enough for those those types of transactions and for the people that can afford to hang on to it and play that game and take losses and gains and paper and strong at the weekends well that’s what wall Street’s been doing this whole time anyway so and you know it’s just kind of a we trying to make the banking system more efficient are we trying to change the way money it’s not about the money value was created in generated who has influence over money cuz we know the powers-that-be will be abused that the fuse that position the money if you know they’ll print to have them when needed they will they will still text with inflation they will spend money Wars a year they will do countless Anna Faris things with money and things up the most people watch discuss did that so do we want to create a more efficient Financial system is much more important goal in life yeah I totally agree I’m it’s been a steep learning curve to even figure out how to get on coinbase Pro or any of the other exchanges and actually buy all coins and it says I see how it’s just the it’s buried there is a I guess a dark side to all of that speculating and trading an Arbitrage and there’s somebody losing anytime you win in that game kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth and in my B I guess I’ll be happy for a time when when the Bitcoin market capitalization is as dispersed geographically and economically as widely as possible and people do by their groceries do their laundry pay their rent you know by their Christmas gifts whatever it is in Holdings of Bitcoin in once that I was thinking of going back to punk and metal you know they made image it comes to me cuz I’m a drummer as I’m like well there will be a point when the when the Bitcoin that is produced that has been has been produced will be distributed enough amongst the masses of the world that’ll be like a snare drum and he’s just like tightening each pig on a snare drum until you have that more stable kind of bottom or at least a stable way more stable chart and then that will give people the confidence to transact in it and it won’t be so so lustfully extremely kind of addictive like crack cocaine to try to chase this Moon pumps and all that I think it’s going to happen it will just take it will take time for sure if you feel like that this kind of just like I just hang in there cuz it’s going to get away will like in other markets that have been volatile it will find a sweet spot over time I just don’t see how it’s going to die and just gone like looking to history of Bitcoin like go back look up look what’s happened over 10 years it’s gone from strength to strength and power a bad Marcus but every time is stronger bigger I just don’t see how it can be maybe he can but I just don’t say I just think it’s about patience until I’m now I trace man says it’s a 50 to 60 year project pride and those people are now wearing off the 1-year like we have a customer and a half thousand dollars right I’m people worried I mean come on let’s get in the real world right because I’m going to buy everything I can and other people but it went to Adelaide by order that so like he’s not going to die in a while now ETFs Ice come in future custody solutions for institutions biwi. Knowledge lightning that was coming it’s just growing is getting stronger and it’s getting harder it’s not going anywhere or does happen if people with people different time preferences who buy and sell at the wrong time of losing money but you know it’s just a game a patient’s I’m very very bullish on the future of Bitcoin write on me to likewise yeah it’s like the price drops it to me it’s a gift from the gods how could they be so merciful to let me get back on the train you know about buying the ditch dollar cost averaging and trying not to lose my mind staring at the shop and just yeah I like you like you said to me in the strategy don’t fucking quit your day job you know just put in a small amount as you generate real value in produce real value in the world and then and then just have this this hedge against the collapse of the Fiat system in and you’ll be blessed like the other people I love Trace mirrors work and I love that he’s doing the proof of keys thing I’m going to participate can you just shut that out too so we can promote that anybody who’s into crypto or crypto curious what is a spread that Meme of the the proof of Keys January 3rd Festival yes I trace my ass he’s running his campaign proof of keys like every year trying to decide which was is none of us three of the protocol on the 10th anniversary of the Bitcoin protocol launch in anyone’s remind people that you know if you don’t know your private Keys you don’t know your Bitcoin you have an IOU for a Bitcoin or you have a credit me for Bitcoin mining exchange generosity want everyone to go on to the exchanges take the Bitcoin off put it on that Hardware wallet on the Cold Water Solutions in the private so many people over the last year or so I guess you don’t even know what happened with the amount call soup one pot amount cuz he didn’t lose that money the Bitcoin you’ve got to be so sober and you could I owe you private Keys you know your Bitcoin so January 3rd I need to check it out website proof of keys., which you which everyone needs to go to check out but that’s so important you know I wanted to become part of it very important campaign Play Trace might recommend F-16 it out also will thank you for that and yeah one respect your time if you got to get going here so any last words you want to share and websites and your elbows and we’ll get people connected to all the greats I want to say this is my favorite over into your dumb because I didn’t know what he was looking at small there’s a very small people out there but when anyone wants to talk to me I’m about to do that but I’ve never enjoyed it interview so much cuz you come in my favorite subject which is evil that you ever want me to come and get on to the Future just let me know I’d be more than a pleasure if you want to check out my work on Google podcast SoundCloud on Spotify on Android 51 episodes in how to help people if you want to find them switch my test was at peace McCormack what DMVs are open to go to reach out yeah pretty much required to anyone here for anyone and I’m grateful to anyone he checks out all right. Thank you so much have a great night cheers horns up I will see you sometime in the pit where can I listen to when I’m next Allen LA I’ll give you a shout and we’ll we’ll go hang out we can get up and down the beach and have a beer sounds good to me then I’ll Be There Yet take care and we’ll be in touch soon. Calm and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is to see me and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temples every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email bad at Orchard Park. Com Thomas gay