Inside the Feminist Porn Industry with Carlyle Jansen TPP64

Play

carlyle-jansen-picIn this episode I have the great honor of exploring the feminist porn industry with Carlyle Jansen. She is the founder of the Feminist Porn Awards and has been a voice of leadership to support alternatives to mainstream porn that are more consciousness, compassionate and empowering. She gives some background on her life journey and what led to her prominent role in sexuality education and coaching. We then brainstorm about possibilities for the future of both the feminist and mainstream porn industries.

Please connect with Carlyle at the links below: http://www.carlylejansen.com/
http://www.feministpornawards.com/
http://www.goodforher.com/

About Carlyle:
For close to 20 years, I’ve been talking to people about sex. I have taught at numerous universities and have been an invited speaker at Sexuality and Health conferences. I’ve also been teaching workshops at Good For Her since before the doors opened in 1997!

In addition to multiple media appearances (including a Tedx talk), I also train sex educators and therapists on topics of sexual pleasure and sexual challenges.

Due to a mounting number of requests, I began offering  private coaching to individuals and with couples in 2000.

My training is extremely varied. I’ve gained incredible knowledge from hands-on programs that teach sex in ways that can never be gleaned from a book. I’ve has taken the Guelph Sex Therapy Training Program, where I am now an invited speaker.

AI Generated Transcription:
(Want to help with corrections? Please contact me to learn about rewards for your efforts!)

Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved’s welcome to Township Punk podcast I am doing interview with Carlisle Jensen who is the founder of the feminist porn a words they’re good for her store and asexuality coach and educator Carlisle thank you so much for joining us then. If you would please give us a bit of background on your story how you became this wonderful person that you are today thanks so I will and I saw my mom kissing my dad wants on my sexual and relationship education came from a show that used to be on TV called The Love Boat and when Sue Johanson who is be here I don’t know about dinner but she before she made it big here she was doing workshops in high schools and she keeps my grade 10 high school and talked about sex and I told my mom about it and she 21 and I was finally dating someone I was pretty comfortable with and I thought okay but I freaked out I’ve never seen a penis before and he was really sweet and he stopped and he said you know what tell me what do you like and I looked at him and I said aren’t you supposed to know that if I knew something about my own body in my own pleasure so I was trying to discover how to have an orgasm after 2 years of practicing on my own and with him I finally gave you know some people are so all summer short summer good at math and I was okay with that and relationships later though I got dumped because I couldn’t orgasm and so a friend of mine who done all kinds of wild and crazy things in the suggested that I and so low and behold that did the trick and I thought okay time for me to learn about sex I was in my late twenties and I was learning lots of shops and taking reading books watching videos and when my sister got married I shower bridal showers and what does it do in so I explained it to them and they said you are so comfortable talking about next you should teach workshops and that was 21 years ago and so I started teaching workshops and then women were saying no we want comfortable place to shop and we want more workshops so I opened good for her in 1997 and part of what we did was weird big on education focus and we really wanted to try to have a good diversity of everything including DVDs and of course there wasn’t a lot of diversity in the DVDs that we could find and I felt like every time somebody wanted some kind of Florence I was like well this is okay but you know no it’s all white people or but they’re all really young or but you know all the women have long fingernails and then we noticed a real change in the early 2000s where there were more and more women trans people who were starting to make films men also because it now was much more affordable to buy a video camera didn’t cost $100,000 you could get your own editing equipment you could broadcast from your own computer and find the world that way and so there was a democratization of corn that led to a whole bunch of new pornographers and so we were sitting around at a staff meeting and my manager at the time Chanel she suggested that we should do an event that showcases all of these great filmmakers and what they’re doing so we created this they came up to us and said wow that was awesome you’re going to do it again next year right we said yeah yeah sure sure how it started oh that’s so cool thank you so much for doing that and sharing your life journey I know that’s very similar and I’m glad you overcame those photos and now you’re totally in the zone and again I watch more pleasure so I’ve been kind of Fun admission to stored out the facts on the Harms in associated with I think some people call it mainstream porn I personally consider just called what I called his frat foreign you know go get them tiger you know this just the same psychology you get in any kind of combative Sports kind of thumb experience of just hyper. start your own and not a lot of regard for the sentimental and Central aspects of of existence you know it’s artistic expression right to be able to produce whatever you want and there are people who say that there is a need for more ethical Consciousness and legal regulation of of some of what we could consider having various harms but I think the the word that I appreciate the most is feminism because it bundles all of those considerations up pretty well and there’s lots of different strands of it so the term that the concept of feminist pornography is obviously contentious for a lot of reasons but I’m very curious how you would Define feminist pornography and then we can talk more about the nuances of it yeah I mean so I guess one of the first things about you know I think a lot of people here feminism equality for women and I think that important but our version of feminist is beyond that it’s also about making sure there aren’t racial stereotypes making sure that there’s a diversity of size that people with disabilities are included at the cool working conditions and so those are some of the some of the general takes on feminism that informs us so and what we have done so you know what someone is born is for us is where the actors are treated with respect you know they don’t get haggled with about what their fee is given a choice and ethical working conditions so whether they want to use condoms or not whether they have a choice about what kinds of Acts acts that they do about where they get changed to know all those kinds of things feel empowered in their works so that they feel like they have a saying like they can stand up for themselves that they can ask for something if they needed another thing that we find is that where the directors collaborate with an incorporated what the actor find exciting as when you get somebody doing with it what turns them on your going to have a way better corn then asking them to do something that doesn’t turn them on so it’s in everybody’s best interest and we’re looking for an expansion of sexual representation on film so not the same old same old stand White young people or if there’s no racialized folks that they’re not for trade in a fetishized kind of way and challenging stereotypes especially of women in community so he think of Asian women with black men black women stopped the whole milk thing and older women it’s nice but we’re always looking for us to see representation of of those people in a positive light and in a diversity of roles and scenarios and we’re always looking for realistic pleasure so I mean that’s very subjective and how do I know whether an orgasm is real or not how do I know whether the pleasure is real and there are some performers who say you know like you don’t throw up for that when it comes to Hollywood films and we are performers you know where we’re used more realistic versions of What would turn a woman on of what I’m in so it’s not always the same old intercourse with very little clitoral stimulation and we’re a little bit more of how people are pleasures and I think that you know those stereotypes definitions animalistic and very uninterested in who their partner is if they don’t give them all so I’m more diverse representation of who they can be and what they like to do and how they like to have sex I think it benefits everybody in that sense so I also always really like to qualify it that you know, sporran can be really edgy or it can be super soft and sensual but a lot of people think that the board must be where you know nobody’s allowed to be on top and it’s all kissing and it’s very gentle and you know it can be edgy there’s some really high Productions on West Warren and there’s some you know pretty low budget interesting films of their there can be no storyline that explores all kinds of you know feminist values or I can just get straight to the action a lot of people thinks I’m just worn must exclude man in there for his only lesbian or clear but it can be straight is gender people trans people by folks who can find just about anybody and you know that there are some feminist pornographers who are make informed that includes you know Saint white straight people write but there’s also lots of feminist pouring that includes more than just that so you know we’re looking for your representation of everybody we’re not leaving out of the mainstream also and of course you know everybody wants their story even if there’s no story it has to be something you want to watch have to have at least some production value that makes it interesting has to be well you know it has to appeal it certainly what we’re looking for when were looking when we award different scenes or website or performers cool thank you so much that was so awesome breakdown so few things that are coming up what I what I’m imagining as you’re talking is safe certified a gourmet higher-quality ethical sort of the way that we look at the way that we look at the actual food distribution system in all of the ethics involved with that until you have organic labels and cruelty free and not tested on you know animals and all these all of these I mean now there’s just like so many stamps gluten free non-GMO it’s like so if if there was an and also I’m thinking about will Beazer performers in there you know the the debate around a lot of the stuff is the you know they’re there right there’s a lot of performance you’re saying it’s my right not to use a condom for XYZ reasons that I’m going to but what I’m thinking is nasm hear your talk is like why isn’t there a Screen Actors Guild of so that they can all maintain whether they want to do feminists Gourmet or they want to do fast food frat porn do you know that seems like maybe a more internally guided solution than fundamentalist you know religious right sponsored legislation that’s going to drive it underground have you talked to anyone or thought about that idea of like making some sort of Union kind of code of conduct and you know farepay kind of structure that people could get a stamp of and therefore be you know in the higher selling Market you know a higher value market may be certain price on top of it and you know I get a lot of people already who say like oh I want to find some people are so used to not paying for poor now they felt you know how do you spell people I think you know that the performers have formed some Alliance I’m so through touching programs through the organizing around on condom debate you know many performers are very active and vocal lunch with her and Facebook and Instagram and share their opinions and I think so I mean I think for the consumer what are perspective is rather than putting our stamp of approval which extend the following words is the industry and the market kind of helps along with that so you know I talked to some of the bigger performers years ago it’s really great to hear some performers talking about how look you know there’s this notion that only some of pornographers have ethical working conditions you know people fall into that room the reality is that even the big production companies like Wicked Vivid you know if you treat your performers poorly and you don’t pay them properly you harass them you know anything else that you know people presumed happens on foreign sets where it’s going to get around really quickly you’re going to lose your top Stars know he’s going to want to work for you and so if you go with Pinot one of the either small production company where you can see no hear from the performers who performed it works one of the bigger ones chances are you are you know supporting an industry where people generally have a say in what they do and they’re treated fairly you know or you can just thought I’d like a lot of people will fall out to sign you know I’m going to find the performers that I really liked and then you can interact with them on Twitter and you can ask them you know what films are you really happy to have been a part of which ones you know what companies do you think I should support what you know and those performers will you know be able to tell you from their own experience and what they’ve heard around who they think you should support so there’s I think each other social media and the internet you can now interact with performers why they find us Newport empowering profession for themselves and make your own choices that way about what your Criterion are about what’s important to you what you want to support with your dollar as opposed to asking some umbrella organization kind of you know try and determine what the parameters are for everybody because what’s going to happen is that they’re going to be some people who are doing really good work or going to get left out of that because they didn’t didn’t you know the outfit some particular box and I think that some more effect where you people making their own choices their own decisions about how they want to find foreign they want to consume them and what they’re how to find films in production companies and performers who reflects their own personal values and what’s important to them thank you for that so you know I’ve been studying the effects of piracy and the tube sites to sort of do this to every time I’ve been in the music industry for decades and I’ve been through that whole shift already so I kind of know what happens and it’s like it’s I don’t know maybe within the last few years it’s really started to like having a huge impact on the number of performers who can make a living doing this full-time the number of production companies that are able to stay above ground and it’s a very kind of sad seems like a sad feedback loop of of as the piracy is happening and the accessibility of it’s not really free it’s just illegal Dolan people like CBD still have a harder time getting what I’ve seen in the music industry is this Force The Gatekeepers to value-add and create more Independence and resources to the artist and so the artist actually have become way more empowered to keep way more of their rights and have way more artistic creativity and control his they don’t have to bow to the record companies to get established anymore and now they make more money doing less work and so actually imagining that there could be a similar shift in the empowerment of porn of all kinds because if they can establish themselves even through like a tube site of some kind but maybe a more ethically filtered kind of tube site where you can give a subscription or you’re supporting good vendors as the sponsors are the advertisers once you become you know your own self made independent star than you could possibly crowd-source funding to do your own projects and then you could be the director the producer and cut out all the middle people so to speak who are the sort of the ones who were in The Dark Side of porn there pimping and pandering and exploiting and abusing you know there are a lot of their performers in the darker side like you said there’s the the higher-end more established companies who are going to you know maintain a reputation for the sake of you know business practices best business practices but a lot of what’s on the what’s being you can say hyperbolize maybe cuz I don’t know what percentage of it is but the really abusive really harmful non-consensual stuff with you know putting people at risk that that could all be just sort of dissolved as this shift overtime as the shift occurs you have any kind of thoughts on the future of how there could be more I guess the fisticated business models that are empowering to the performers themselves even if the producers start to you know go out of business or have to shift their business model like the crash from sample website that really tries to empower all of their performers and they do Revenue sharing with their performers in a good business helps everybody I mean you know are you ever going to get rid of the really edgy not necessarily empowering porn I mean I think as long as there’s a demand there’s always going to be a market of people producing it unfortunately the dark places like king.com who are making really edgy stuff for people who wanted to be edgy but to know that it’s still consensual and there are certain rules that are followed in morals and ethics so that’s good part of the problem also music where you know if you’ve only ever bought chocolate from a corner store in a wrapper and that’s all you think the chocolate is consuming that chocolate until somebody listen to a podcast like this and says hey there’s a different kind of trucks but out there there’s different kind of worn out there there’s you know there’s music beyond the top 40 hits your like really and then you give them you know like a chocolate truffle that’s been handmade or you give them some time as poor and that you know suits their desires in has themselves reflected in it or you know provide them with some jazz or some alternative music weather like like this before and they decide you know what that’s worth it to me you know I’m going to buy you know chocolate truffles urbino pay for alternative music or you know whatever some good porn from here on in the problem as I see it is that people don’t necessarily know that there are alternatives out there and so they just figure you know a lot of people who have grown up with foreign I’m just free on the net like they just don’t even like pains worse just watch it for free and I think I think it’s about getting the word out there and helping people understand there are alternatives like so I think what’s already happened is that performers and small Studios and people with their own webcam out of their own bedroom and their own time are creating their own foreign and finding these people are finding them in their finding followers and supporting themselves that way and I think that is definitely helpful and the dancing people have autonomy around what they want to do how they want to do it I’m so I think that’s really awesome I’m not sure however that were ever going to get rid of the Turin where people don’t necessarily have much choice where they you know don’t necessarily feel empowered to go to the police or stop working I don’t know how big it is I don’t think it’s as big as they make it up to me but I think you know the best way to counteract that is to try and offer Alternatives both for the performers as well as for the consumer so that sort of alternative corn and Summers porn x a viable business to stay in no matter what aspect of the business you’re in or do you know that you will always have good form that you can consume of the consumer right that was a very important point that you just made which is the meeting that all of these to have really is that it’s going to be that the onus is on creating a more and more sustainable and ethical the wholesome and even holy alternative that can be make the other what’s it say yeah that whatever percentage did actually is of the financial market place and of the you know number of scenes and content being produced in a given. Of time the fact is like well evil fills a vacuum of something that’s not evil so you’re going to have to get to work you know make more of an alternative and there’s another Effect 2 I feel like what’s happening is that it’s the extreme abusive non-consensual content is being hyper accelerated because of the dwindling profits that they’re having to go breaking more taboos you know taking more you know people on board because the extreme not only people are getting numb and in their circuits are getting fried and all of the yourbrainonporn you know of material it’s like people circuits are getting fried they’re getting numb and they’re building a tolerance so they’ve got to have more extreme stuff and there’s only so far you can go and then and then if the profits are dwindling in order to stay afloat they’ve got a fruit to the survive you know to be profitable they’ve got to you know service because you know you getting them with what you’re stepping on it with well then you’re going to have to find a happy medium somewhere and you may have to like FAQ off of like the toxins in the poisons your stepping on their craft with otherwise you could you know t-shirt start of shift gears a bit there’s there’s a there’s the XXX Church there’s hookers for Jesus there is I don’t know how many other religious organizations that are somewhere in this gray area between not endorsing pornography existing but also not demonizing in trying to punish the actress or trying to come out of it but I didn’t talk to one of them and they said they agreed yes about 50% of the whole entire Christian Church is addicted to what you would consider Satanic ritual abuse porn so why aren’t they making Christian porn that shows holy matrimony or whatever you know it’s necessary have you encountered anything like that which is like okay well here’s the point that you should be promoting his you’re not going to be able to stop the evil foreign from existing if you want to use a loaded term like that yeah well I know that they’re certainly Christian and Muslim and Jewish for example like sex toy website so you know there could be no Afeni buddies making I think they’re just being here Christian form within the context of a Christian marriage instructional book husband and wife receive no extramarital sex unless it illustrates the downfall of adultery funny 2006 the body of Chris you know I mean I think that’s definitely I think that’s definitely a good Niche right showing people who are already connected and there is some so Comstock films made what we call Doc youporn and they’re all real couples were together and they talk about how they match their relationship and then they also have sex so don’t feel comfortable with feeling like well those people were paid to have sex and I don’t know how I feel how I feel about that a lot of people have embraced this sort of moredock YouPorn where they feel like okay well these are people who are having sex anyways you know we get to know them so they’re real people and so what did they say they prefer that style but I think you know there’s more and more niches when it comes to different styles and so I think that you know and some I don’t know if the mainstream is caught on to this I mean most of the you know they want to play with some of those taboos but I think there’s definitely there’s a niche for that I need somebody should make some poor in marketed as Christian for on her Muslim port or whatever you know you know committed relationship about having sex with each other right cuz they they’re out of gas and they can’t talk to and and leaders in the Christian church snow for one it’s like well then it’s the old adage if you can’t beat them join them you know there’s there’s a way to do everything according to your own scripture so you know this is the truth the Genie’s out of the bottle of meanness there’s no putting it back in so you’ve got to provide and it’s like I’m so glad to hear that there’s got to be a way to adapt and improvise in the trains that were in cuz just pretending sex doesn’t happen it doesn’t exist that’s old world thinking it doesn’t work anymore so boring people this is all music to my ears at work yet I want to ask you let’s say you had an infinite budget and you know no legal or political restrictions i d like you were just you know what a venerated is is a thought leader in an empowered with funding you know to do kind of wave your magic wand and and help absolve a lot of these issues in in just take your visions and dreams to the highest unlimited level and what would be this is it called like a blue sky budget thought experiment you know what would be some of the things that you might do if you had infinite power to you know I assume you wouldn’t be trying to make a bunch of lies and you know drive a bunch of things underground but actually be like okay I’ll make a better offer here’s twice your daily rate if you walk away from that stuff when you come to this opportunity and it snow doesn’t bother you cuz you’re if you have no limit so I just curious to Thinking Out of the Box what would you kind of what would you do to address some of the issues and you know grow make your own horn Workshop which we’re going to be putting online so that people can follow along 2 has created several torn shorts that have won awards that are really well done and she shot them all on her iPhone very low-budget appreciate the performers and everything else was pretty much you know low-budget so you know what I would do is I would say like he wants to make foreign create ways for people especially people who aren’t represented so people with disability older folks people with really interesting fetishes who never find themselves positively Representatives call for like tell me what form you want to make you know who it includes and it what you want to do that’s interesting and and provide resources for them to create that donation Cafe and just make it so that so that we can you know put more really good stuff out there and provide the resources both Financial but also you know I mean there’s been over the years many people who have great ideas about making foreign but don’t know how to be so makers right you have to in order to show how do you spell how do you edit how do you make things look good how long should a seen go on because real time sex is really boring to watch so that is one thing I would love to see I would also love to see you know the radical feminist you know Aunty porn movement I really just miss them as we don’t know what you’re talkin about or you can call by the patriarchy or you’re in the minority or he know you just don’t know you probably be happier doing something else did you really just miss people who are in the industry and I you know if I could wave a magic wand I would create a for where people who are Auntie foreign could come in really listen to a whole bunch of people who perform and really listen to them about why is it that people are in this industry what are they get out of it what kind of choices do they have what other things would they be interested in doing and why do they not do them why did they choose what kinds of ways could the antifa movement actually help them rather than getting their way how can we work together to create a world where porn is empowering both for the viewer as well as the performer and where the people that so you know radical Aunty porn people want to protect you know getting some of those folks in the room also who people has left the industry feel like I had a choice people who were co-opted people who maybe they were migrant workers or didn’t have status didn’t feel like they have a choice you know what would have helped them so that they wouldn’t have had to make that choice if that wasn’t really a choice that they wanted to make and I mean some of the questions and the answers to those were things like we’ll have a good enough social programs you know child care for my kids and options to make money so that I can you know support my family right just some of those are larger context issues but that I would love I would love to see that happen when people come together and Billy and there’s finally listening from the foreign people about you know what it what it is like to be informed and what what a horn what’s orange candy create that world runs and trying to ride a kit for an totally which you’re never going to get rid of yeah the less you are involved with making a better option the more it takes over as as is the lowest common denominator in and now it’s like it’s interesting definitely I mean I time I’ve been in adult performer in the past four more of the you know authentic reality couple based feminist country stuff in and I you know it wasn’t it to pay the bills for a minute and it worked and it was great and you know just did his thing and then now I kind of feel like I’m so shocked and offended and undisturbed and sad and heartbroken by what I’m seeing that I have to get back in and try to let you know you know if you want it done right so thankful for the thought it’s beyond what you know some people don’t want to sign up for the term feminism for whatever reason you know how say it’s it’s it’s ignorance to not good not to have a warm place in your heart for that term but but empowering porn that’s a powerful word that I’m loving to hear you say and we’ve given a lot of places to go with this in New Visions for more sustainable development of this industry and I kind of feel like there’s nothing really more sustainable than filming sex I mean that’s very sustainable you’re doing something that humans were designed to do and so yeah yeah one thing I want to ask you about positivity towards porn toolkit for Education it’s like I think something that’s so funny to me is this idea of what they’re saying is so close quote it’s like a new clinical term they call supernormal stimuli and that if you watch porn you were in this is a real effective men young men are having erectile dysfunction because of quote on quote overexposure to supernormal stimuli and they’re not having quote North they’re not being satisfied in quote normal sex with a girlfriend lover spouse partner and what I think is so attractive about a future of more positive sexual access through pouring is the idea that supernormal stimuli is actually a good thing and it can be accessed and it comes down to having group sex that’s accessible and and safe and having you know the ability to fulfill your wildest fantasies with people who are stoked about participating in whatever you want to design as long as it’s ethical safe and it’s their thing too and so the pathway to the Fulfillment of supernormal stimuli is born and it’s this kind of porn so you know what do you think about that did he say go put your sexuality back in the Box you’re only supposed to have sex with one person with the lights off in missionary position and if that doesn’t do it for you any you’re addicted to porn and you need to go and pay doctor right diction pretty much anyone that she knows who has done any kind of exploring would fail the sexual addiction test and we would all be considered sexual because the definition of someone who is quote-unquote normal is so narrow that there so few people who are actually following so I mean I think it’s really unrealistic and I think that you know We crave adventure and We crave connection and you know you can have really great authentic connection with in a monogamous relationship and some people choose to do it differently and enjoy watching group sex you know to my mind doesn’t he know if you’re doing it with your partner you know or even without your partner your monogamy it’s a fantasy and you’re exploring a fantasy and so I think ya having lots of lots of ways to explore that can only be nice we need to make choices about how we spend our time what kind of what we eat is really an important principle and kind of extending that there are people who walk this Earth who were designed by nature to be sexual healers to be sexual X exhibitionist appropriately you know engine so do you what do you think about the idea of yeah empowering people like you said if you had a grant Foundation you could you could say hey if you wanted to know if this is your calling then here you know take it and run with it and will support you and will give you the production team you know you can get on a waiting list or whatever and be supported to do this do you feel like in the people that you’ve interacted with I mean there’s this myth that everybody is sex trafficked into it or is there a drug-addicted are there at the end of their rope or they just got or there be no divorce or whatever it is they’re their patriarchal economic structural support system collapse for some reason and now they’re on their own so they’ve got of succumb to The Pimps and panderers of corn but really there is I would say you know you can probably validate this there are people who choose to do this who are comfortable doing this and can you speak a little bit about it like the positive psychology of that so that people can understand it’s not all you know that you know yeah I mean you know people like them justly and Jill and Ryan and April Flores ones that come to mind to talk about how performing is really empowering for them and it’s empowering awesome because they get really great positive feedback from their fans and it’s not so much like oh you’re so hot but it’s like you know your body is genderqueer or it you’re like this you like that you’re like me and I finally seen somebody on screen who looks like me and it’s so refreshing and it’s so feel so good to me to to see you and you seem like you’re having a good time you know that Steve is empowering I’m putting your body out there a sexy is really empowering for people who like you mentioned exhibitionist right there some people who I really enjoy being watched being seen being put out there and that is empowering for them you know some people really enjoy sex so having sex for a living you know can feel like a real. Again as long as you have a choice about who you get some sex with then go and what you do with safer sex options and all of that you know for people who really enjoyed y’all kind of a dream job so you know I think there are people you mentioned sexual healers I think there are some people who also would consider themselves that and did that sort of their calling and you know there’s people do corn for lots and lots of different reasons and just the same as people would choose to be a social worker or a banker or I don’t know a therapist or a teacher write for lots and lots of different reasons and you know I just think like I have two kids but I could never be a full-time teacher in school I have so much respect for those people but I’m not going to go on project on them like wow they must not feel like I could never do that I’d be exhausted will but some people that you know I know love working with kids and it really Steve’s them so just because one profession isn’t for you doesn’t mean that there aren’t other people for whom that would totally see them on different kinds of levels and be really empowering a great choice for them do you know of any I mean where I love to about feminist scholarship is just how much meticulous research goes into studying all kinds of different patterns in kosher and so I imagine that even now you know whether or not the Blue Sky budget thing happen if you know if there was you know if you could if you put out a call to research is to be like let’s prove that the outcomes of performers in this type of you know adult entertainment are much better compared to the other kinds of outcomes and have data that Rivals the negative data is it is anyone working on that you know of is like studying this will have lien people who are studying sworn there’s actually a porn studies Journal now and so it is Prayer by Rutledge and they I think they started your two ago and so there are both academics as well as people in the industry in there so I’m not sure if anyone’s done a job satisfaction overall what were the working conditions but certainly there is more acceptance of that happening now and there are people who are I’m studying for specifically ice arena in the mainstream survive cycle I’ve heard people say that I don’t I don’t I can’t give you this you know that the citation on this but the average porn performer lifespan is 37 because it’s suicide I don’t know if that’s how they backed it up but but I am curious about okay there there is no Aftercare in the longer term life cycle of people who are getting like men have a longer duration in the industry than women typically even though they get paid less but obviously the so-called mainstream porn industry they’re not providing like a retirement package for once the the body shapes and sizes and whatnot is no longer getting the high dollar and it said decreasing unlike other professions where you expect to get raises over time as your skills develop you get chewed up and spit out in your your profit or your you know income declines in the mainstream foreign so do you have a nerd like Nina hartleys doing just fine I think she’s been at it for a long time and she is now a mil send you know but she you know she’s she’s still really lots of great work I mean there I think one of the things to did you do it before you enter into foreign is to talk to people who have been doing it and there’s a video I think of different stars who give an advice and what is one of the things that they do talk about though is first of all let you know think about the effect of having your body out there forever and also think about what your exit strategy is right like you know save up some money and you know like everybody needs to save up money for their retirement and important that make you a little earlier than other things or it might not be spending on you know whether how that works out for you but thinking about what do you want to do do you want to go to school at the same time so that you can come out as someone who works with pornstars or do you want to become a director or do you or an editor or you know we’re Concepts and some other capacity so you know most Industries don’t really have a you know if you’re working at I don’t know which one of your big department stores in the US Marshals I don’t think there’s necessarily retirement plan in there for you but you know we all need to think a little bit about okay where are we at now and where do I want to go where am I headed and because yeah I mean the lifespan of Mercy is not that long in the mainstream at least but in a more alternative for there’s lots more room for different kinds of people and last year at the feminist poor towards Morgana Muses is a woman who just turned 50 and Australia she just discovered starting making her own porn and we gave her the heartthrob of the Year award because she had this fabulous piece as well as some others but the one that really move people was miss my it was about her 50th birthday you know I made a film about that whole process in her being and she engaged the rope bondage to a phoenix and what that was all about and like we screamed it at our event here there was like 500 people in the audience and people were just like they love to her they loved her and I think that again what alternative words I’m just worn whatever you want to call it can show you that it’s not just about what your body looks like it’s also bad who you are and your personality and that lots of people will still want to see you and love you as you get older and so think about you want to continue during for and when you’re older or not do you want to do this for the rest of your life or is it you know sort of something you want to try the steppingstone up a talk to other performers before you decide to get into the industry and then talk to people once you’re in it to figure out you don’t talk to people retire still ask them what’s worth what hasn’t worked what what do you want to you know what mistakes of other people made that you don’t want them to know I had a woman also who I talk to who is an escort she’s in her seventies and she is an escort for older gentleman and she also performs in films and I talked to her about what her experience was on sat and she said oh my God they fly me down so I don’t know what’s the weather in Florida I get picked up in a limbo there’s somebody always asking me like a queen they make me feel she feels empowered she’s very happy they fly her back and this is her life and she’s quite happy wow go that is awesome so yeah we’re about an hour or so I say we will wrap it up and you know my last thought to two after that is just thinking about this public good civil service work that people with bravery and boldness and fearlessness go out there and fulfill our wildest fantasy sports if we don’t have you know the the guts or the time or money or the friends or whatever and so is valuing it not as Dark shadowy Taboo to put the lid on but it’s nothing it’s like you know these are our soldiers these here are you know the people who take great risks to benefit all of humanity and so you know it’s funny that in the in the so-called mainstream you know subculture well the subculture of mainstream format using but they call non-actors civilians so they have sort of a bit I said they’re aware it’s like you know what if we take that one step further where’s the veterans assistance programs for your for your combatants in your porn why aren’t you having a fun to take care of the people that you used on the battlefield of your sets and I think that’s something that we could talk about doing it’s like yeah you do this this is a public good and you’re going to be taken care of you know if you when you renew either there’s going to be some system of support maybe not pay all your bills but at least make you feel like yeah you know you can get some ongoing Healthcare medical care cuz you did something for people you help people so yeah that doesn’t my last thoughts if you want to have some closing closing thoughts and definitely share your websites and how people can get in touch and all that great stuff I think we’ve accomplished we have lots of resources Aaron educational when’s also good for her. Com we will be putting us up if you want to become a pornography film soon we also have some dysport awards.com and if you want to get a taste of what format for looks like we have sore winners over the last 10 years listed there and so you can click on and see what we’re talking about two different kinds of porn and have a little look for some of the things to check out specially in categories that you’re interested in and I also find me at 4:30 to get yourself a little more educated and if you haven’t seen anything then have a little look and then make your own evaluation awesome thank you so much Carlyle I couldn’t ask for more I really appreciate your time and I best of luck on going and I hopefully will see you at 3 or some Day next year you said yes okay so keep an eye out feminist point of words and where will that be hosted you have a location we’re always in Toronto okay cool alright so get your passport now all right I’ll see you hopefully at the next time take care of thank you so much for the township Time Podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition assassini and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple after bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email Brent at Tantra Punk. Com, CA