Chanel Preston

How to Cure Pornophobia with Chanel Preston of the Adult Performer Advocacy Committee TPP120


In this episode I have the great honor to speak with Chanel Preston the chair person of the non-profit Adult Performer Advocacy Committee. I saw her presentation at the XBiz show and was moved to become a member and to get involved. APAC is leading the revolutionary efforts to enlighten pornophobes to the artistic and liberatory value of adult entertainment and helping to end the dark ages of sex negativity.

She shares a bit of her personal history and provides a wealth of insight into the major challenges and opportunities  for adult performers. We discuss our visions for an ever more ethical, independent, and sustainable future for the industry.

Please visit her website and APAC:

About Chanel:
Every destination is accessible via countless paths. There is no checklist or guidebook on how to become a progressive feminist or advocate for change – as a result, Chanel Preston (born Rachel Taylor) took an unusual, more challenging route, when in 2010, she filmed her first of more than 400 sex scenes for the adult entertainment industry.

Born and raised in Fairbanks, Alaska, the state is in Chanel’s blood. Its nonconformist mentality and fearlessness have always been evident in every decision she’s made, and her choice to become a porn star at 24-years-old was no different. However, porn was not the end goal for Chanel – rather it was a way to further explore her sexuality, how it defined her as a woman, and her role in patriarchal America.

Chanel Preston was instantly a superstar – a Penthouse Pet, multiple award-winner, and host of the AVN Awards (the “Oscars of porn”). Despite the accolades, it was her work behind the camera to change public perception on the adult industry and better it from within that Chanel is most proud.

In 2013, Chanel co-founded the Adult Performer Advocacy Committee (APAC), the adult industry’s first performer organization working together to maintain and improve safety and working conditions through organized representation. As APAC’s Chairperson, Chanel has been on the front lines of the industry’s fight against government legislation affecting performers’ health. Her work educating the general public on the dangers of Measure B, AB 1576, and Proposition 60 contributed to the Free Speech Coalition naming her its 2015 Performer of the Year, an award for one “who has gone out of their way to dispel the myths and misconceptions of the adult entertainment industry.”

Fans were not the only ones who gravitated towards Chanel. Her intelligence and eloquence quickly made her a media darling, as popular news outlets CNBC, The Daily Beast, Huffington Post, Forbes, Cosmopolitan, and more turned to Chanel for everything from political commentary to sex advice and op-ed articles. Television station RTTV continually brought Chanel on-air as a spokeswoman for the adult industry. Desiring to control her own narrative and create a healthier discussion on sexuality in America, Chanel launched the online platform

Chanel further refined her voice and communication skills through hosting jobs for Showtime documentaries, Canada’s Rogers TV specials, and the cable series “Inside Adult,” known as the “Entertainment Tonight” of the adult industry. Her ability to convey her conviction and passion while maintaining professionalism led to multiple speaking opportunities at universities and on event panels.

People are quick to label porn as misogynistic, just as they are to dismiss porn stars as stupid girls or victims. Anyone who hears Chanel Preston speak or reads her words knows how far from the truth this is. Chanel works to destroy all of these misconceptions by pulling back the curtains on the taboo adult industry and introducing the world to the very real people who make their living by having sex on camera. She hopes public familiarity will breed understanding and ultimately respect.

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved welcome to Township Park podcast episode number 119 I have a huge grin on my face because I’m very excited that we’re going to be speaking with Mariko passion AKA The Goddess Kaya she’s coming at us from Tokyo Japan and the way we met was very beautiful we were kind of both I’m doing Tantra workshops in the LA area and she joined a meet-up that I establish called pansexual Tantra and and she came into the first time we met at it was kind of a sacred circle jerk it was an experimental Opportunity Act created for meant for intentionally for men but really for anyone cuz it’s pansexual time should we have been reopened everything so she blessed us with her presence and I think it really added a lot to the experience of having these men feel comfortable pleasuring themselves amongst other men and it was just a beautiful experience for me and then we we collaborated further we we had a Kundalini monologues event where she headlined the event with the Beautiful music offering that I’m sure we’ll get to hear more about and also we did there was a pretty amazing experience we had I love to get your perspective on it too as we get into this but where we did kind of a freestyle somewhat somewhat loosely held container of of a Collie invocation ceremony and things got pretty wild and I was really stoked on on what happened there so those are just a few of the highlights we also went to a she invited me to a swap meeting sex workers Outreach project in LA and that was interesting but I know there is it’s interesting so bridge-building between you know activist organizations and sacred sexuality Tantra and the tactics of compassionate what not we’re all at play in that in that evening so and then yeah we’ve just been in touch and we both had similar training well some of our training has been has been similar we both stood 10th request Tantra counselor training with Sean Roof Inn San Diego at different times but yeah we’ve just been kindred spirits and I also did some session work with her that we can talk about but yeah well that’s to say I’m very grateful to know you Mariko and I’m excited to know more about you and have you share about your Life Path and what has transpired to make you the beautiful wonderful awesome you were being that you are so without further to do please bless us with your story and we’ll start there oh my goodness thank you babe and I’m a say I totally just got the lowdown of our timeline and we do have a rich history so thank you for being a part of that so much has shifted for me since I’ve moved to Japan so it’s good to kind of remember who I was when I was in Los Angeles which wasn’t that long ago it’s now been one year and one month pregnant countries but yeah good and bad memories right what makes a friendship cheaper is that you to go through some pretty deep dark places together and come out the other end and you usually do come out the other end which is something that you don’t believe is possible but it’s almost always is so how far back are you comfortable going in your personal life history timeline to kind of put in contacts that you’ve become really a rare gem in the world if you know what you could what you could be doing you know starts at 12 possibly or maybe 11 or 10 I’m half-japanese ethnically my mother is Japanese was born in Japan and when I was 10 11 12 I would go I requested to learn more about my culture and so she took me to Japanese school which is just every Saturday we would just learn a little bit about the language and sing some songs and see some kid games and stuff but I was in a school with other sort of expat children of from Japan so they were way too far ahead in their Japanese than me I was like I’m not as indicating which is a type of Japanese person but not from not born and raised in Japan so I’m a Japanese-American basically but there’s Japanese peruvians Japanese on Brazilians are on the case and so we are are the community of Global Citizens who sometimes come back to Japan and sometimes just continue to live where they live and we have a unique perspective on our culture which is still inherently Japanese at its root right and so that’s what brings me here to Tokyo and I’ve been living here for a year living my dream my lifelong dream images to re-acclimate with a lost culture learn my language and get to know my relatives that I haven’t talked to some of them in 28 29 years well as far as your career path towards becoming I guess we could give you some titles you know you are a certified Tantra counselor and also do you want to can I give folks a sense of who you are and what you do in the world as a goddess has got his kayak as all of these hats if you are so I came to Japan on a tourist visa and I knew that I would be okay even though I was scared shittless and I would cry everyday and the prep to moving to Japan but I had already under my belt a 3-year experience of running my own pontrich life coaching business in Los Angeles and different parts of the US but mostly in La so I’d come to Tokyo just to see if this would work out and work out and it’s not as frequent of a business that is as it is in Los Angeles cuz I actually still use Backpage here and Tokyo and it’s not as saturated as it would be in any US city even after their big shut down Backpage is still more saturated in the dating section than to Tokyo body rub or escort pages so I don’t identify as a sex worker but I do use sex work portals to attract my clients into a contract pass so I within a week or so I’m able to work here as a country guy and so that tells me that things are possible for me here and took you I can actually survive here I can live here as I may have to get a second job or you know some other way of making money but certainly I can do Tantra here in English because I wasn’t I’m still not fluent in Japanese in Japanese but I’m not able to do my sessions in Japanese yet I’m doing a deal with Japanese speakers wear because it’s sort of a residency or a way for me to practice practice session it’s really cheap it’s about on the equivalent of $100 an hour which is like 60 70% less than an hour us and then a hundred and it is super flexible it’s not I don’t charge by the hour I charge by the outcome I charge by the session necessary and my clients know that it’s not by the hour it’s a rough I give them so I usually end up really end up being to their advantage I usually give them more time because I feel like I’m not done or I have something that I’d like to show you and this would work out well since we’re already to build the connection with our clients sometimes it’s a lot of time so I make sure to take that time with them because I feel like they’re worth it and they’re healing is important to me so I take as much time as as necessary without going completely overboard for either of us that’s cool I like that business model so do you want it how is the I’m super curious how this you can see wisdom tradition is healing modality this technology how is it driving with the kosher there so far what what are some some key points that you’ve discovered so my Discovery here for foreigners for expats for digene is what we’re called foreigners gaikokujin is that we have feelings of isolation here in Japan and that it’s a very common thread as it’s common for myself as well so a lot of the times when we’re doing our work we’re healing what needs to be healed within us and so this really works out quite as I can I can empathize with my clients I understand the loneliness I understand feeling isolated and I understand you know I have more of an advantage because I speak Japanese I looked up and he is I you know I’m I’m constantly learning a language I have time to do that I have time to do that so a lot of my clients are not doing that my clients are two types of people they are international businessmen of a high-caliber so they’re coming to Tokyo to sidhu Deals International deals do you know they’re from Singapore are there from Vietnam there from wherever they are from and they’re coming to this major city capital to do business for a few days open stores open branches of Tokyo excetera then my second type of clients are military men who are usually high rank some because my fees are not cheap so I’ve had several or two notable Military Officers who have flown me to their bases and work has a submissive so they called me in to train them to be a submissive all right yes that’s why I when is Market here in Japan is a military man who wants to be dominated with compassion Keep Ya without obviously you don’t violate any confidentiality can you give us some insights into some of those Dynamics are just generalities it seems very well I should say before before I I I should practice breakfast at by saying my my new political ideology thesis is that women are actually still in control of everything you just have to find if you if you want to get through to a politician you have to find his dumb and then you could have influence over him because she because the Dom has the highest leverage Point literally holding him by the balls and sometimes twisting by the balls so I was very curious if you could elaborate on what you’re doing there with the dumbing the high ranking military officers combines Tantra and King and therapy and so that’s kind of what I’ve learned to do it’s not standard S&M BDSM I’m not just playing with people I’m not just doing things to them or living out their fantasies it’s not fantasy work just like a regular Tantra session is not really fantasy work I’m not dressing up like a goddess and doing a belly dance for you I’m doing so in that same regard I’m not going to wear outfits I don’t really do things that I don’t specialize in within the Realms of King there’s so much that I don’t I know nothing about I don’t touch that. I’m not interested in I’m not actually a sadist I’m not actually a masochist when I pour flu is on someone’s head it’s not decoration it’s actually a goddess ritual that I teach them to receive the blood of the Goddess they I see some to receive the fluids of the Goddess so all of the fluids yellow red and vaginal fluids are all warships in the same right and it’s not a fetish per say however if they have that background and they can access it quicker I can draw them in in that way but there’s a lot of talking screening that goes on before I to see if we’re a good match because if you are really invested in running your script around fetishes and Kinks him you’re not interested in going deeper or learning anything new you’re not teachable you’re not coachable you’re not ready to worship the goddess you’re not interested in that you’re just interested in your orgasm then we’re not a good match because it’s slow my work is slow and it’s definitely compassionate it’s nice like I said there’s a lot of things that I don’t do I dress up and outfits when I feel like I want to dress up I you know I know a few things and I make it creative it’s creative to me I have to be mutually pleasurable to me I don’t know how to whip you I don’t know how did you keep a cushy body ties I don’t know how to do electric shock therapy there’s so many things I don’t have special equipment I don’t you know like so if you read all that and you’re still okay with that and that is a good match for me in a lot of these guys they just want to be kind of in a in a DS relationship which I like doing I build Subspace that way by beginning to have a text relationship or a SMS some kind of a Skype kind of messaging relationship where we’re getting to know each other I mean it’s definitely a willing co-defendants that. That begins and I get to know them do that they call me goddess I called him you know like each other love each other I always say that I dominate with love I done with love and compassion I’m so that’s how most Mistresses and goddesses operate it’s this lack of that they may admit it later but it’s not something that’s an over it sort of yes my my greatest weapon is my heart and so I will love you you know until you are a puddle on the ground and that’s pretty powerful actually and what I found is more powerful than the whip so yeah I’ve had two very intense travel dominant-submissive sort of emergence with various officers it all been so eye-opening you know like it’s just been such an honor to serve and to be served as both an honor to serve and be so bright that we in Tantra should recognize that there is a duality that goes on that we’re constantly shifting that I’m never completely a top I’m also in service to my bottom right so that I’m serving them I’m serving them in their healing and I’m always keeping in regards their choice their their desired what their outcomes right we don’t have goals and what did you come to me to explore so recently and May and the sub decided that he wasn’t his words were I’m not emotionally invested in what we’re doing anymore I need to end this until I have a moral obligation as a responsible dominant that sounds like a safe word to me right so and I gave him that often always before I give my clients my son misses you know no matter if that came for. They always have the option to stop doing the work I’m paid before we start but you have the option to not continue So after 24 hours of my working with him in Okinawa he decided to hit eject and I allowed him to do that like instantly with the passion okay I support you I love you great thank you for working with me it’s heartbreaking to me it felt awful and I cried about it but myself my responsibility was to allow them to go you know like that they it’s not about me and my progress in my process they always have choice I’m a night I respect that choice that is what I feel my moral obligation to do so that’s cool so what is the what is the disciples I could come once a week or I know some of these can be more a mini vacation for the client you know to the taken on a tour that can last for days going into deep places so what was the typical pattern or what are some of the ranges that gets even held we we initiate a contract and once I get a deposit from them then I feel comfortable like starting to do my work so there’s an intake process they fill out and then take a questionnaire about their history about their intentions what they like to learn or discover deeper and then I then I start to do my work which is researching what would be the best tools to use during our sessions researching about things that I may not know about that are in their history it is definitely therapeutic academic work that I’m doing and I have not trust my training with Francesca but I have you no other activists background I have a postgraduate degree and things like that that help me be able to do this kind of 1 to 110 approaching I’m in a way that they trust so giving them articles to read and we’re talking on Skype and usually we’ll talk every week probably our in-person meeting has been planned for two to three weeks in the future and so I’ll meet with them twice for an hour but in between that I’ll be sending them articles or we’ll be talkin you have any question and if there are dominant and submissive men during this time I’m calling them my sub and I’m I’m I’m building Subspace by by doing what I do as a dominant which is kind of slowly starting to to see to give them tasks to prepare for a recession in a dominant submissive way but I don’t do that with other people that are not in the king crown but again all the people all the clients have to be teachable so they have to be willing to read and do homework and asked me about that and because we can’t build unless there’s a back-and-forth so now it’s it’s definitely validating for me to hear what sounds like you are a revolution of the experience of having a commanding officer but one that’s committed to your spiritual and sexual development as much or more as your ability to Via effective killing machine all day yes sir yes mam right and there’s no passion in that you’re trained as a military person to be a machine and to be a yes or no question what we’re doing in Syria just do it don’t question our ties to Russia just do it right so just do it and they have actually in Okinawa especially military radio in their in their car is that that that elicits propaganda right so it’s it’s a real thing that they’re prepping to bomb North Korea anytime anywhere is what they what I keep hearing anytime anywhere you know so Springsteen or some other American pop songs on mainstream radio on the military bases I already have that they don’t have someone who’s leading with who’s authoritative with compassion they don’t have a mentor figure they don’t have they have someone his domineering not dominant eye dominant doesn’t need to be domineering all the time so I have authority because I have knowledge I have authority because I have I can facilitate your healing and that’s what gives me Authority I’m not an authority figure because you signed up to a contract that and I get to push you around that’s what the military is I signed a contract sister and I know that you pushing me around is going to be a part of it and yes sir yes sir I’m going to do that cuz my job I get paid to do this it’s different with coaching right they pay me they want to do it they can pull out whenever they want to see their choice they have control actually in to a certain degree and boundaries I respect their boundaries to certain degree I have to have some Freedom right there’s a usually a Navy plant you can’t say no to everything if you’re wanting to submit to me but they’re safe words there’s red yellow green you know but I get to know my submissives through the process of you know talking to them everyday for a couple weeks so I ask them questions what do you want to happen what are you looking to explore it’s a very facilitated coaching experience you know I am a guide so I’m not just doing what I want to do I’m seeing what they want and seeing if what they want by Vybz with what I want yeah I think I can do that yeah that seems like that would be fun for me yes I think I could do that and there’s so many people who I can tell right away this is not going to work out and I’m not going to do it just cuz you’re paying me nuts the difference between doing what I do and being a sex worker sex workers you say no but when I was a sex worker was about transaction transactional outcome I will do this because that’s within the range of things that I do but the outcome is certain it’s it’s because there’s a transactional I’m giving you money for this certain sex act but with my sessions is it’s not sex work because maybe those things could happen and maybe they won’t I go with the flow of what we’re doing you can’t say I need to have to I need to nail say I need to what if I get do I get to Pop’s right to Pop’s multiple orgasms can you put you know do some disc butt-plug strap-on play right okay if if I was the goddess Hera I would take that into account this is kind of what you think you want okay I’ll take a list of what you think you want and then we’ll just blow but sex work it seems like to me and all I have seven years of experience being a transactional sex worker so I feel like I do know something but they get mad if you don’t do that right it’s like you’re your responsibility to do this thing and we would often take power back by saying no it’s not and we don’t have to shit but lay that you know like we could just do drugs with you and dance around like I was always this dance of power anyway you know between the worker and the client and well this is really exciting to me so I like the words you’re using I think you’re I don’t know if you’re joining them as you as you go along or if there’s more of a broader just discourse around it but this idea I mean I’ve seen transactional sex work that’s a powerful term I mean I would hope that that that’s being used to put into context and in within feminist scholarly feminist discourse that there is the potential to do what you’re doing which is transformational and you have the power and you were only screening for higher paying clients who want to have experience of transformation and who have already in their own journey I guess either by Pastor transcended that that sense of I mean I imagine it would get boring after a while if all you were doing was making someone fake that they were interested in doing whatever you thought was entertaining for them I mean you know lad and sits on travaille Destin Garrix and at that time I was at the end of my rope you know I was like escorting had gotten to the point where I was kind of going crazy I was like I’m ready I’m ready to be coached into something else there’s got to be more for me than this I am completely drugging and numbing myself into believing that I can do this any more days that I can you know what I mean I think you were a role model for anyone who’s in that level of like you said transactional sex work to to see that there’s a way to make more money have more dignity heal yourself few others excetera excetera so yeah please the the makeover the personal Tantra makeover process I would love to hear about that and the byline of motivation is that you can have control over your work you don’t have to do what the client wants you to do you can design your work in any career in any business to be beneficial mutually beneficial to you you we have the power to do that but we often create a self-limiting cage that says I have to go to McDonald’s to work I’ve got to work at Starbucks because they give me these benefits in that benefit I must see you know these violent clients because I need to pay my rent I can’t make my minimum without we always be at his justifications right the previous to meeting Dustin and learning how I could be a time trika I was a late night escort and my hours were midnight to 6 a.m. and I felt like that was my niche market I had to see those clients cuz I was picking up who nobody else would pick up and I was making pretty a pretty decent living doing that and I felt like I wasn’t you know I try to be a high-class escort and it wasn’t working out so I was kind of I created my own Ishq market with the dirges of society and being compassionate and holding space in my own informal way for these guys who I didn’t like the sex part of sex work anymore so the drugs do drug users and drug addicts were just interested in companionship and having a human being in the room with them a lot of the time or or interested in a mutually getting high with people and talking to them and not be judged and I’m good at that so that was my career for you know that was my escort market for a few years that’s kind of what I probably did and then I’m at the time it worked out good but then with that comes violence and just you know this is the dirges of society’s there’s drugs involved there’s violence and balls and I was just tired of that kind of you know population ran into Destin Garrick at a party and then he has graciously gave me coaching for free you know pro bono coaching and so I know that you do that with your practice done and I try to just give that back to people who are willing I want to see what’s possible I know that I charge a lot of money but there are ways in which we can work together usually if if you’re willing to be teachable there’s wait there’s things that I need in life that I can time bank or I can trade or you know I can give you less and you can do your own homework but Dustin gave me about 15 hours of coaching and referrals and how to get started as a tantra teacher and that’s always been sort of a lifesaver I see that as a lifesaver you know and I always talk about that story because I’m cool yeah it’s important so we also share that teacher that’s awesome so this is really yeah this is really deep intense material and going into it it’s it seems like I don’t know if a lot of people know this but I’ve been learning more and more that you’d be surprised how how many quarter quote John Cena really they they do want the actual companionship and some of them in their own Journey just not even care so much about fucking or getting off but having the energetic and sort of psychological social intercourse if someone just paying attention then hearing them out and so was that that was more was it evolving more towards that but there is still dangerous sounds like you’re still you know places to be stuck in training we are healing ourselves and that’s what opens the door for us to be better to start a toast for you for our clients at that time had not received my own training so I was where I was at you know we’re always attracting are mirrors so I wasn’t conscious of my my wounds and so I would tear up with client you weren’t as conscious I was quote unquote holding space and exchanging energy with these but I wasn’t I didn’t have the awareness of what energy exchanged was exactly many people do have Tantra sex we are always energy exchanging with people we have been doing it since we were kids but once someone you know at a meet up or a lecture or a video tells them you’ve been doing this this is where it comes around this is you know how you exchange this energy this is how you meditated everything you know like all these little morsels that we give people who are willing to learn this stuff and they see oh I’ve been meditating my whole life I’ve been having sex before I even knew that word you know just happened sooner so I was doing that before with compassion you know like giving these drugs addicts you know one guy spend all his money instead of going to rehab to see me and I just held him all night and I remember his his his high infusing into me that I could feel the drugs without doing that because I can you know when we’re so close to someone’s body it is energetic exchange and I could feel the drugs coursing through his veins there was other stuff besides the drugs you know like how it must feel to want to go to rehab but then you instead are so afraid that you just spend all your money on a prostitute and just how that’s going to unfold for that person after we wake up in the morning I don’t have attachment to that but he does I didn’t get high but he did I got high on my own energetic sense but he has to pay the consequences for it not me well so you do you want to talk about your work with Swap and just what kind of advocacy and Outreach in activism is going on for sex workers and certainly in this age of changing when they first it was Craigslist and then back page and so now there’s a lot of I guess I’m not totally current with it but but there’s a lot of concern that it’s too well the policies and the enforcement strategies are actually making a problem worse than putting putting the sex workers in Greater danger than not so if you want to come and go into the political commentary by Dobie Gray so I got into full service sex work as a mentee of scarlet Harlot Carolee who’s an artist and a sex worker older she’s probably 70 now but she had done so much activism in sex work that I was attracted to that community in San Francisco her and Robin fuel has passed away from cancer since then you was the first person he was talking about decriminalizing prostitution and the first person who was compassionate and she had such Southern Charm a great smile at Shrewsbury you know warm and congenial and so is Carol Lee is someone that I still call My Chosen mother she was my hore mother and so both of them were like mine or mothers and they mentored me into feeling like prostitution or doing intercourse for money wasn’t a bad thing it was a good thing and there was a hole Community also that would you know that was doing this and we were okay and we were fine we weren’t the trash of the world so many many people were so motivated by what Robin was doing she had been arrested for prostitution and because she was an agent herself which is AKA a pimp right so she was she was being an agent to other sex workers across the borders of the states she was in a bigger case international trafficking case that most of us just get arrested for one-on-one prostitution and that’s a misdemeanor but she was in a federal felony case and was facing many many years in prison so at that time she became super vocal I’m at that time as when she started swap National and many people followed her and within that year her first year she started many many branches of this sex workers Outreach project and that was 2006 and I was so determined to follow her path that I said I am going to start Los Angeles has swap chapter and be the Revolutionary War revolutionary that La has never seen that that was my sense of purpose at that time and I spent seven years as an escort but the whole time that I was doing it I was really vocal and visible sex worker Advocate an artist so I’m making songs about prostitution I’m performing the song I’m singing lemonade conferences in different cities in the world and doing conferences and speaking and all of this stuff I’m I’m doing without direct pay I’m seeing myself as the Robin Hood of sex work activism so I’m taking my my income from my clients and using it to advocate for the rights of the workers 7 years I did that I’m so but at the end of that seven years was when I met Justin the work was starting to chip away at me and even the activism to start take starting to chip away at me because I wasn’t getting paid you do get tired of using your income to do to do social justice work it does get it’s not sustainable and it says burn you out and evidently we need to get paid for the work that we do no matter what the work is so that was the end of the seven years and so I was looking for a new identity and many many years after that I guess it took three or four years before maybe I even trained in Tantra and Chris was not interested in doing activism in the same way that I was doing it before because there’s also kind of interpersonal interaction Unity struggles that happen with people who have experienced a lot of trauma and sex workers have typically on and myself is included in this population experienced a lot of trauma and so organizing with that Community can sometimes be challenging and we sometimes will trigger and traumatize each other because we are like a like a bunch of dysfunctional orphans what kept us safe forever is you know lashing out or doing something that is crazy I mean there’s a lot of no different people on different trajectories of healing in in every community in the world right but then when you come together with like maybe a drug-using community or sex working community the percentage of people who have experienced trauma is much greater and this community to sex your community is not really willing to to say that sentence even because we as an activist Community who are trying to fight for our rights are not trying to make us look bad so the people who want sex work too and he want prostitution to be eliminated they’re called deliciousness they will say oh all sex workers have been abused and raped in traffic and you know come from broken homes so we don’t want to answer and say yes we’ve been abused and raped and we come from broken home we want to defend against this day not know not all we don’t you know we’re all okay we’re not all abused Bubba blah you know so there’s always this back-and-forth of trying to assert that you’re saying even though you’re falling apart inside so but you know there are good examples I’m not going to say I’m not trying to say that even I’m a I’m a I’m a living example of someone who has survived a Continuum of violence but feels like I’m able to have a career to be functional I you know I am a functional member of society you know I’m able to coach other people and able to have morals and boundaries and I learned from my mistakes you know we’re able to if we want to kill ourselves and I accelerated way and we make the best healers because we’ve been through the darkness ourselves and so that’s kind of how I justify my own career path is that I am three to five steps ahead of my clients and I attract the kind of clients who have been through sexual violence who are you know having feelings you know various abusive spiritual abuse is physical abuse is or are interested in exploring sexuality feel genderqueer those are the kind of people that I like because that kind of me 5 years ago you know like I understand that so yeah so that’s why I feel like I’m a good healer for for particularly men like that I’ve always attractive male survivors what do you have to say I mean just take a couple breaths here cuz that’s pretty intense work I just want to I Really applaud you and thank you so much for being that that light and not succumbing to you know like I said you you you could be a lot of other things that would be true could be a lot of other outcomes and you stand out for sure and thank you so much for all that service in in the activist were and I agree that you don’t download activist worked I didn’t get paid for and you know it does burn you out and it does deplete your resources and it’s also opportunity cost because if you’re not if you’re not building a career unfortunately this world with the energy that you have in youth which comes basically for free even if you have a bad day even if you’re a drug addict even if you have no clue about holistic health and wellness and energy you get a lot of free energy in your Youth and then as you start to age it’s gone and you if you didn’t invest and you didn’t save and you didn’t build a career path then it’s if you can get really Bleak so congratulations to you for pulling yourself out of what could have been a lot worse circumstances that wouldn’t know is really a you’re living it up because you’re the spiritual play girl that has sounds like I really did explore that but it just wasn’t for me it wasn’t as satisfying as what I’m doing now I’d gotten training and HIV testing I’d gotten training and needle exchange I’ve gotten I’ve explored maybe I could get an MSW a master of Social Work all these things to legitimate you know my experience as a sex worker but it pays very little and and the hours are intense you know and I don’t mind working hard but it just wasn’t none of none of those things that I explored getting further training in was attractive to me and also a I do want to elaborate a little bit on why I was so kind of you know I had quoted earlier or I tried to push this memory out of my mind because I just wanted to just described to the audience what happened I had spent a huge gap from activism from sex work activism because of what I described as a coup I found it swap LA but I’m the new director then like really pushed me out in a way that made me feel so unwelcome that I quit I quit the organization that I found it and he just did she completely like decided she would take over change the font changed everything and you know and I had no right to do anything is so that was so it was so traumatic to me that I quit and I lost my identity at that time and then that’s when depression really started because I’ve been this or revolutionary activism for activist for so many years and I just wanted it so I near suicidal like level you know cuz when you lose your identity that almost always triggers this this loss of meaning of life that when people I hear it all the time and no webinars and stuff people who have experienced suicidal ideations because they lost their careers their jobs identity right so my identity at that time was prostitution was doing is activism so she took over and I just stopped associating with swap La completely but you know me and you and we decided to come together for this event because there was a new director and they were having a Christmas Christmas party December 17th a day to recognize violence against sex workers and I thought okay can I do a musical performance I’ll be the music act right because that’s kind of what I’m interested in now I sing and I play the balls and it’s like spiritual chanting and I want to see you tell the sex worker community that. Tantra goddesses are sex workers in a in a sense but we’re just different kinds of sex workers were spiritual sex workers and we are still part of the community because in America doing Tantra any Hands-On work is illegal it’s seen as prostitution in so we could get arrested for that so that’s why there should be a connection we should be allowed IBS be recognized as the community it goes both ways so horse should recognize that good for a secret person to recognize street prostitutes it’s like both of us so I was a starting my presents playing music at this December 17th event so I’m playing the trumpet player and a woman comes from the audience and like the man that I stopped and that my performance is so expensive because I’m appropriating Indian culture and I need to stop right now like she and it’s such a shocker to me cuz I just was not psychically mentally prepared that anyone would basically she’s heckling me right so she’s taking me to the point that I stopped and I never experienced that you know like since I’ve become a goddess we become so much softer read as a sex worker as an escort you are the opposite of that your heart and then you’re not trusting of the worlds you’re ready to be you’re ready to defend if someone jumps on your not in that mood anymore I don’t live in that vibration so I was just like it’s frozen though and I couldn’t do anything I couldn’t move I just sat down I thought I did what she said I stop playing like that and it was be worst sort of like I always so traumatized by that you know like I am trying again to you know to give to this community and yet they’re completely rejecting my guess and you know that’s the story from earlier where I had tried to give to the community and they rejected my guess is so that’s why it was so heartbreaking and God I spent about 48 hours trying to heal from that that was really hard but yeah so the community sometimes will have those kinds of mental psychological verbally abusive kind of outbreaks and I’m just not interested in putting myself in a place where that could happen anymore so it has led me to seek community and other places of people who are interested and willing to work on themselves constantly none of us are perfect but what we have in common is that we’re always try to seek to be better we’re always trying to work on self so that we can be better for appliance we’re interested in that piece at least as I find like with a lot of other activists communities they are still interested in being right and winning fights and asserting their power through two talking points and two arguing and I’m just not interested in that in any way at all you can win that Facebook argument great is the most the kindest most raw I will be kind and wrong any day I’d rather not I’d rather be kind and wrong then unkind and right you know well this is a this is really a guy’s you you concluded that Inlet story with this this phone Redemption because I was I was pretty shocked too but I also I guess at that moment I felt like the best thing that could be done is just to not feed energy to to that lower vibration that was trying to Sir to pick a fight and I think you did a great job you really I don’t think you lost face even the way that you handled it because it was so I mean because you didn’t feed into it it stood out as being so inappropriate out of line absurd and ridiculous and laughable to me but I didn’t even I didn’t even want to give it back after I just wanted to let it dissipate into itself and disappear into the night which eventually it did and it did it did you know really open my heart to extra compassion understanding for you have to be you know if they have to deal with that in the and just knowing yeah there’s a lot of meu you earn you definitely earned your to be to graduate beyond that into just few extra myself I want to just be surrounded by people who really not walk on eggshells but really you’re conscious about being gentle and really not complaining about too much and not being really that like just not being hostile for no reason and in refining the refining everything so that you’re not you know just creating a toxic environment as much as possible you know I mean we have Heather certainly toxins in the environment that we have very little control over how much of it gets pumped into our minds and our bodies in our you know our lives and in every Dimension but anywhere that we can design a little bit of non-toxic gentleness and space to sort of DNA that’s precious so I I I feel you totally on that and I mean we don’t not fight with each other we don’t not raise our voices but it’s it’s sort of I don’t want to have that be the way that we are you know like my people I sit down to break bread with we’re not yelling and shouting about whatever opposition whatever oppressor anymore I did that for so many years and I just don’t better than fuel me anymore where it used to you know right now there’s plenty to be angry about I’m not ignorant about what’s going on in the in the US because I live in Japan I’m still paying attention I’m still American but at the same time I know that it’s not I want to I want to I want to acknowledge that there’s so many other countries out there and I’m able to get sick a broader Global Perspective now that I’ve moved to a different country and I’m not on the ground in the US and you can be angry about Trump and be angry about this and that and his supporters are are angry Bunch as well you know so we can go into it with that as the way that we saw something and I just it doesn’t matter what your causes it’s it’s what it’s what your your intention is and the way that you see a solution and how you’re going to go about that and some people are like oh yeah that’s too woo woo or hippie you just sit there and sing and chant about it I’d rather get my gun out and shoot you know everybody has a different way the same problem but it is the same problem we’re all looking for clear loving connection and understanding guess we are well well I don’t know how we can come to a better close we’re almost an hour but I just want to say if you have any final thoughts and if you know feel free and definitely plug your websites in waste connection hopefully you’re still you know recording music and putting it out there so people can check that out and Yeah more of you how do we get more of you my website is goddess kayak Wann Yen. Com goddess k a y a k w a n y i n. Com God is Kaya Kwan Yin. Calm and then that’s the website that I’ve been building for 4 years it has YouTube videos on there and it explains my session courses and what I do and it has the intake form which is the questionnaire for potential clients to see if we’re a match for the work that you would like to do with me I am putting an open invitation out to women clients a couple of because that’s not the kinds of clients that I usually get I’ve worked and specialize in male sexuality for about 17 years so when I do get female clients when I do get couples it’s exciting and great to me if you speak Japanese that’s a big discount yeah so that’s my and I’m going to be transitioning using my my boy name which is medical as my goddess name because now I live in Japan I don’t want I want them or Japanese name and I have one opening a business and it’s even get such as a form of communication for Japanese people turn on touch decided they don’t they don’t even hug when they say goodbye to each other it’s not common Society not a communication Society so communication is nonverbal communication is very different but this you know so what I’m hearing is kind of communication this kind of very training sort of verbal ideations of you no problems and stuff so when you do this it makes me feel like this there’s nothing bad in Japanese culture is a New Concept for many many adults Japanese adult kids problem kids they can go to counseling but people in Japan are still at the point where it’s kind of shameful oh my God you’re seeing a therapist psychologist that strange this is really interesting and exciting I feel like there’s going to be some crazy animated is going to come out about Mariko the the touch the touch doctor the touch since she was ending it’s unbelievable what the transformative potential is to take this to somewhere where could have such a profound in it in an immediate and such a high contrast impact so I hope you get really good rest and I hope you get to you know all the success in the world and you know eventually you’ll have the means I’m I’m I’m sure that I can see in my crystal ball that you will you’ll eventually have the means to to really come back to the ruins everything is sex work activism and be able to create much more financially empowered resource opportunities for folks you know I can see it so I think you’re going to have a beautiful life are canned and I feel blessed and thank you so much again for your support it with me and my very very first you know breaking open that little hatchling shell to to start to talk about mice Maria my offerings in in the country world so that was a great yeah Lil chapter it we were having so hopefully we’ll get a chance to it also continue to collaborate in the future weather remotely or in person but yes definitely wishing you the best and looking forward to more Adventures right when we do and you know it always marks our growth when we come together at these times right every few months every 6 months so it’s nice to do that and I’m happy to do that with you anytime regardless of geographical boundaries great will thank you so much I will definitely talk to you soon we’ll be in touch to take care bye bye thank you for listening to the touch of Time Podcast please go to and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition of sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple at provide ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episode if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. Com