In this episode I have the exquisite pleasure of exploring the art of erotic literature writing with Malin James. She offers a wide range of insights into the inner workings of erotic writing and we agree that it’s vital to sustain and evolve this ancient craft into the digital age.
Malin James is an essayist, blogger, and short story writer. Her work has appeared in Electric Literature, Bust Magazine, MUTHA, Queen Mob’s Tea House and Medium, as well as in anthologies for Cleis, Sweetmeats Press and others. Her short story collection, Roadhouse Blues will be available this summer from Go Deeper Press. Learn more at http://www.malinjames.com
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 110 I’m here with Mom and James a writer blogger and essayist of all things sexuality and Beyond and another blessed adventure to just discover more folks out of the box of Tantra who were in the sex blogging in writing fields and she was kind enough to accept my invite to the show and so it’s going to be a a process of exploration and learning about what all you offer your path to becoming an influencer in the sexuality writing field so yeah please share this a bit about your path leading up to the wonderful person you become thank you so much for having me on its really really cool I’ve been listening to some of the episodes and I really think of the work you’re doing is fantastic so it’s a complete honor to be here I think that I think that I’ve always been sort of Q2 sexuality in one way or another and I’ve been writing for a very very long time almost 20 years but it was until about five years ago that I really started focusing on sex is a subject and I started writing erotica and Dean sex blogging writing that sexuality and as I did that more and more I realized that sex is really an amazing lens to sort of look at our Humanity through our spirituality through understand ourselves each other that is really it is all encompassing and, things are tough connective facet of humanity and Joe the start of the more of my perspective Broad and on that the more I found it right about the more I reached out to people and people reached out to me and I just became a very nourishing very creative exciting space to be an end here I come from a background that is on the more traditional side and I have a history with sexual trauma and healing from all of that and so what kind of a winding road but through all of that has always been this sense of sexuality as being something that connects all of us and is very connected to my think that’s that’s it in a nutshell and I am grateful for it well well thank you for sharing and do you want to talk about some of your projects what what you’re focused on in your Expressions over this. So I think I took out at about last year I was primarily writing just very short pieces very short erotic fiction getting them published anthologies and doing all of that and it was good it was it was fun and then I didn’t wear more that I started blogging about my personal experiences just in relationships I’m in an open marriage and polyamorous most of my adult life so I started writing about that and my experiences with that just as as things opened up for me sort of healing from trauma I wrote about that some more and and things just started getting very I found myself very much sort of in the center of of the the non-fiction I was writing and so are most of my my non-fiction is very sordid personal experience reflective sort of stuff and I had always shied away from that because you know I made in the end you know who wants to be navel-gazing and instruct you know but you find a balance stop and get some perspective and the really cool thing is it that you know no one ever experiences you know when we all resonate with each other and you resonate in a can be very surprising can be really wonderful eye-opening so my non-fiction is definitely edges over towards the personal experience in the personal essay then as far as as far as fixing goes I’m working on a collection of erotic short stories right now that’s coming out with go deeper press this summer cold Roadhouse Blues and basically what I’m really looking at what I’m really interested in is it’s a bunch of connected short stories that also focus on this sort of one town in the middle of nowhere in the United States and the lives of people people have and how they don’t maybe look like what we think of as you know I haven’t particularly Rich sexual lives but they really do and they don’t matter stereotypes and they don’t maybe look the way we think they should look or you know whatever they want to just break down break down the idea of you know a sexual person looking a certain way or being a certain way or traditional relationships vs untraditional relationships insert break all that down to where it’s like now we’re just people in these people have relationships and this sometimes relationships look like one way and sometimes they look another way and so that’s really been my passion project for the past year now finishing it up now and really looking forward to getting that out in the world what sounds fun are you are you going out and sort of doing the what are they call it like what a method actor would do to get immersed in the environment so you can have a prospective for details of things are actually that’s a really awesome question I was an actor I trained as an actor and I worked as an actor in New York and San Francisco for about 10-15 years earlier in my life so a lot of my writing I use the same muscles in my writing as I do and when I was acting and what it is is it not so much method acting as like intense empathy I really really empathize with my character’s a bite if I can’t empathize and come to a character with compassionate then I shouldn’t be writing them even if they’re absolute jerk even if they’re you know an awful human being for me to write from a place that is both productive and I don’t know what the word is I don’t to say lightning because that’s that’s a bit that’s that’s a tall order but if I’m going to write from an honest place a place that isn’t may be rooted in judgment I need to have that empathy so I filled up a lot of those muscles when I was being an actor and doing acting training and I use that same sort of seat of empathy and compassion when I when I write my writing is super character-driven so you know whether it’s a guy who’s cheating on his boyfriend or you know woman who just desperately wants to have a baby and so she kind of does anything to get there just whatever the situation is even if I’ve never lived that live that experience try to come at it from a pretty like a pretty understanding emotional place and then if I don’t understand certain to take it looks like I’m never going to know what it is to be a gay man and so if I need to get a good perspective an honest perspective on something then you know I’ll talk to a friend or I’ll talk to to someone who has direct experience in an area to make sure I’m doing it right I mean the last thing you want to do is just perpetuate stereotypes without knowing it that sucks so you know I do want to be carefully do a lot of research but but yeah in the end it really comes down to like no matter who we fall in love with no matter who we have sex with no matter who we want or need or what we do we’re all people and we all hurt and we all love joy and we all experience pain and that sort of like the first step for me in getting into into a character’s head and then after that kind of just see where they take it sounds a little bit like we will and everything but it’s a very organic sort of intuitive process for me you know scanning my subconscious of four any references to something that like what you’re talking about and actually what came to mind was that movie Thelma and Louise did you receive that I really takes you on an anthropological journey into the Bible Belt and masculinity and the recently and it’s been years since I really I really loved it as a child that I think that was probably an important seed of Consciousness it was planted then and and watching it now recently after almost thirty years of being a free reasonably well trained feminist at least by my partners who wouldn’t give me the option if it’s amazing when you think about the character development in understanding and emphasizing and seeing the wounding of patriarchy that’s a on both on all ends of the gender Spectrum really in you just see the how tragic it is to be so so anybody really that the way that they that they covered the truck there is a truck driver he was a perv there was the husband who is the certified abusive or neglectful Tyrant and then there was the cereal kind of date rapist creepy guy and then there was the the good cop bad cop thing going on the empathetic cop with versus and so it’s like a sacred masculine was really held by of all people Harvey Keitel and he was the only one and then there was even the boyfriend who was tearing up the hotel room you know so she couldn’t even deal with him but he would least was wounded and he was a little bit vulnerable yeah it was a circus of patriarchal archetypes and archetypes that have been perpetuated for so long and end and have you know tab damaged women but also damaged men I really feel like you know all of it boxes just end up end up doing more damage then then good at this point you know with men feeling like they have to be a certain way to be strong or to be to be mad and identify you know as a particular gender and and women you know what’s been you know what’s been done to women by the patriarchy over so many so many centuries are you still you’re still working on the book now or you’re working on I’m doing all that the edits at this point so I’m I still got my hands pretty pretty deep in there so I can I think it would be probably a good move to go ahead and have a watch and just sort of compare you know what’s going on on the screen with some of the things that I’m working on to I think that’s awesome all right around ya good for divine timing and then it also makes me feel the other than this is like the pendulum swing of empowerment is that film based on if I can remember her name it’s probably going to escape me right now but at the only female serial killer wilmslow niak something like that I just heard a reference recently but I hadn’t had you seen that film really really powerful movie and Powerful Super 8 yeah it’s just that those that those are good things are going to my so what if you’re in less it’s a secret in your keeping it I mean I guess you could give us the back cover version to know if you have it to understand what it was some of the angles are coming at 2 with this project then I’m definitely curious truckstop town in the middle of nowhere and I really wanted to leave it very general because there places like this all over the country and very particular sort of localized stuff but but I wanted I wanted this town called sticks to sort of sit in sit in that space that General survival belts Enid rural Highway Town kind of feel and so what it is I’m kind of span of a bunch of decades like I’ve got a story set in the 40s and I’ve got a story a story set in the fifties and sixties and I’ve got stories that now and what if what I’m looking at is stuff like like there are there are some stories about women who work in a strip club but it’s not about them as strippers it’s about them as as women I’m in the top and see what they do and you know one of them is about a woman who is convinced her husband is cheating she she knows he’s cheating and the question is if he actually is cheetah or if this is just a lot of her own you know her own filters sort of boxing him into a role that he’s not actually playing or a woman who had a very close relationship to her father and he died and should have working through that with a man she needs no guy who who owns the local Diner and he’s gay but he’s completely in the closet because you know growing up in the 80s and you know it should taking Bible about town you you just don’t talk to being gay so you know so he’s performing this idea of what it is to be a straight man when you know there’s this other self that he doesn’t get to my cakes for Access with you know or a woman who escaped a really abusive relationship and how that haunts now and how that experience literally changed who she was least through all of that are sexual encounters sexual experiences sexual relationships in the thing with erotic of the tricky thing is is like an erotic I basically as a genre it needs to have sex and that’s that’s for the genre but what I wanted to do was you know make the sex really really like at just an inherent necessary part of the story and make the sexiest characters have and that I depict in the stories make it means something make it meaningful you know what start them in one place and have them end up in another place through a sexual encounter through the expression of their sexuality so all of these characters are very full people outside of the sex they have but for whatever reason in the stories they are in some way transformed or transported by a sexual experience and so that you know that’s like it needs a moment and are the pivotal Moment In the book where things change and I guess the best way I could put it is that in these stories for these people the pivotal moment is sexual you know the woman who just had a kid who feels completely out of touch with her body but she manages to get herself off and feel desire again for herself you know and and how that can change her and just a husband and wife who lost touch and I will find each other again but only after the wife has an affair and just that that kind of thing to sex is there like that by opening experience I think is really my hope for it that’s beautiful yeah I was at that makes me think you know when you’re sexually deprived or I guess Starving in a way in and it really distorts your character to the point where when you are able to then eventually have relatively fulfilling and desirable sex then it just kind of melts away all of that paint instantaneously then we built up over that time of deprivation and say yeah I said I don’t care how no matter how long it takes for my dream list of dream loving experience has to happen I know that in the moment it does happen I’ll know it was worth it to have to have to wait that long that one experience smacks you right upside the head and Andy know you it’s something shifts and it’s you know it’s stuff like that that’s just an instant beautiful fakeness that’s like as a profound it’s a profound Lee amazing yet mundane thing in like in mainstream media I think n insertive especially women’s bag of beans like Cosmo and and stuff you know performing sex you know how to how to be sexy how to how to be a sexy person how to have no mind blowing pornographics acts like you’re camping up the pressure on something that you know it doesn’t it doesn’t need to be that it can be any wholesome that can be filthy it can be wholesome and filthy at the same time you know Steve whatever we be whatever you need it to be in that moment with your partner with yourself and I just I just want to put put a little bit of that out there you know everyday people having really profound everyday experiences yeah that’s beautiful man in the in the world world of Tantra it’s kind of in a different way can become guilty of that have just hyping up this ever-elusive experience of transcendence that’s so so easily easy to access but then sometimes you’re fixated on trying to achieve something greater than what’s in the moment and some of the most required no technique and no mantras and know you know spiritual latticework to climb and it was just the person was so into it and so present that they just they didn’t need any of that it’s at to get there and it made in it and I could just melt into it so but it is important for a man I say two to be able to fully relax into sex you have to you have to train to be able to relax and there’s a lot of people whether it’s sexologist sexual therapist that you’re doing helping men overcome both erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation and if you can figure out how to sustain yourself in that sweet spot then so nourishing to bathe in those chemicals that the neurochemistry of how do you describe these good feelings in words in the paper the medium of words how do you express these if these feelings last me as I was working on this like how do you how do you make how do you make sex like more than just sort of like the bear biological unit description in like 10 and all that because in the end you know like we all know how sex works you know what you mean we basically you no no what you do when you have sex you know regardless what kind of sex you’re having and we know it like the mechanics are so you don’t have to to Really describe it like and super detail as opposed to like getting into that sort of that biology of it is there that I think about it I talk more about how things feel you know so it’s not just like they kissed it’s what’s going through her head when he kisses her what’s what he feeling when he kisses her like you know where they smelling what is it remind them of you know where did it take them and their minds are you know where they completely taken out of their heads and just living in the moment and experiencing the sensation Moment by moment and Eileen a lot more on that sort of that since a moment by moment physical experience as opposed to like a description for for writing a story and I also find that very naturally when I when I start writing from that sort of place of how something feels as opposed to what’s happening to them it naturally takes me right into the characters experience and and tops that empathy really just organically you know so I mentioned the story about the the woman who to have the baby and you know she just lost touch with her body she’s lost her ownership everybody in our entire sense of herself and so you know she ends up masturbating and it is a pretty straightforward story but like the whole build-up is how disconnected she feels to her body and how much it hurts and how much she just she just feels out of place in her skin and so the more she touches herself in a loving way the more she just seemed like your neck a little bit and let that tension app no justice he’s very unsexual actions that she’s taking gently unpen the tension and the the the start of the self-torture she’s putting herself through emotionally you know to unlock unlock that little portion of yourself that’s that’s really blocked off so you know going into her her head and like what did it feel like you know what does she remember sex feeling what she remembered her body feeling like how is it different now oh maybe it’s not so maybe it’s not so scary that it’s a little bit different maybe it’s okay that it’s changed a little bit maybe it’s still beautiful maybe her skin still feels good on your fingertips that kind of thing and let her sort of explore explore her physical self from that a very sordid a moment a very moment to moment almost like I had to take this a Buddhist but it is in a way it’s a very moment to moment present in reality right now experience in and let her be physically with herself and follow that experiences she has she has it and end with a story like that basically it was almost like it was getting married at Uni and I just like I just wrote it down so it says it’s super sensory and and way more like emotionally driven you know you want to make it sexy cuz you know still ride again people you don’t want to feel good you know when they when they read it but definitely looking for that deeper kind of that deeper feeling good but deeper feeling of a sexual experience I love it just came to mind that everyone should know how to fuck their own brains out that what you know what is it that gets you what gets what gets you under your own skin and then you know run with that cuz that’s you know that’s brilliant that’s that’s that’s a fantastic gift you can give yourself right on would you be at would would you feel put on the spot if I asked you to read any sampling of any of your Works whether it’s from your what you’re currently working on or anyting for the past and just you know feel free if you don’t if you don’t feel shy I can pull something at let me see let me pull up this isn’t from The Collection this is this is a piece that I wrote last year and it’s basically about a woman who is recovering from a pretty horrible breakup pretty horrible just a relationship in general me see if I can find the file here where are you all right there with me sorry about that nothing all right let me go up to my website I think I’ve got it on it see I’ll read it a snippet of it it’s called the second letter and I wrote it right at the start of my own sort of healing process from some relation to cut by a pretty bad relationship and I and then you don’t and coverings and some stuff in my own past my own my own experiences. Especially you know when I was very very on that were just super painful and I buried and said this was the first story that I wrote that really I feel like I started tapping into something much more real instead of that sort of but I think I was like that like stop corn and there’s nothing wrong with it but she would like that. Erotica important that she is super like hey look how many positions we can get in and out of time and it’s in a it’s fun it’s latest it’s Enos groovy it’s just you know it’s very it should have more about what they’re doing instead of what they’re experiencing and records of exactly exactly this is the first time it’s pretty special place in my heart so read I read a little bit you can fit in the phone booth dude get 10 people in a phone booth love it I believe it just makes me sit back Bow Wow that’s that’s infusing like if that was reality that would be pretty incredible you know it’s either really wow I can’t bear was supposed to be a space born on Dixie they had to design a sex harness so that we would be able to populate the species after that we leave if we leave the Earth if we leave the Earth is smoldering Cinder and we have to repopulate Mars and we have to have a harness to strap in otherwise we would just be sending each other across the spaceship every thrust you know so okay if we had to go earlier than we have to go live in space how do we do that you know how do we do all these things how do we have sex I love that alright so let me see okay so here’s the here’s here’s a snippet from the second letter I have sent you the letter that I want you to see it’s practical and why’s full of smooth measured lines and things are best for both I’m not writing the letter that I wanted to write it is not smooth is not measured I’m writing on my skin than the length of my leg and up again higher and higher to my warm wet comes in the hollow places that you can I will start my hip and scroll to my love on that curved hardbone I will write up the silence my tongue couldn’t feel of the ugliness and envy I swallow just keep your taste in my mouth I understand your responsibilities your conditions your life I embraced my confinement in a small mushroom I was your Escape you said if you kiss my thought it was cream and white when you did not smeared with ink but clean and sweet atacolypse band improbable trust your words poured into my skin and diffused feeling my cells with your precise exact same love Alchemy magic I became an extension of you you cast a spell with every they can bite every time your fingers drifted between my thighs in bars and restaurants and cafes in streets every time you found me wet every time you suck my breast am I thin cotton blouse I lost an inch of myself more ink on my skin you love me love me your word Steve denslow in profound until I live to your teeth in the rest of your cock the human arching back a curving neck neck a greedy gaping cunt I was a response to your words the words that you scroll down my skin with your Rich invisible ink a room at Haven the bottle in the gym a pretty little box wow yeah I Rosie thank you thank you very much I appreciate that a great deal where do you get a lot of your guests if inspiration do you have places you go to disconnect and or does it just come at random times and you take notes I’m just curious the creative workflow you know what people want to get into this what what are some best practices in tips and tricks of the trade don’t don’t wait to be inspired because the way the way I feel like creativity Works its it always there you just don’t know when it’s going to pounce on you so in order to kind of keep yourself open keep your brain open keep your spirit open in a right right a little everyday even if it’s like 5 minutes in a notebook you know if you can you can eat out more time that’s awesome if you can work out a page that’s great but like 5 minutes a day sit down quietly with yourself just jot down whatever comes to mind like no pressure no expectation just something from a dream something I thought you had the sound of a person’s voice like what it feels like you know when you get that shiver of recognition and it feels like you got memories opening up your spine just all those little like those little experiences that pop into your brain just at random shot the shot that down you give yourself 5 10 minutes to just indulge in that that creative space and sometimes like stubble slow at you and you can keep it down fast enough and sometimes it’s going to be pretty quiet and we started like meditating and you’re staring at the wall in your life what’s going on and you don’t just stay with it as best you can and just not even if you’re just writing oh my God this is awful I can’t wait at that I had no thoughts so that’s the first thing is just like opening up that Matt muscle that awareness of story of yourself of experience and then the more you do that the more the more things should have started to spark and you know sit down we know what an idea like I seen a visual a visual like an image that you can’t get out of your head you know maybe write a little a little story for that like why are those two people doing that thing in that picture you know ask a lot of like a lot of why questions you know why did I dream turn you on why did that dreams scare the hell out of you you know why did that thought surprise you I find that you know opening yourself up like a little bit every day and then always questioning yourself coming on it from a place of curiosity asking why why why and writing the answers you’re going to end up with piles of material or piles of stories that never would have occurred to you if you sat down and we’re trying to bang them out in a conscious way and so that’s I think that’s that’s what I’d say for anyway that’s still how I work that I’ve been working for 20 years and it helps keep the pressure off and it keeps that that writer’s block at Bay because okay so I have a crap day and I’m I write absolute shiter apps I write absolutely nothing that’s okay I’ll have tomorrow so you know those steaks and a and I think once you you free yourself of that pressure you can go to take yourself to places that are going to surprise you and those surprises you know saying saying yes to like the things that surprise you and maybe catch you off-guard a little bit that’s where the really great stories are can you count demystify what writer’s block is as feel that the yeah me neither I probably haven’t been I mean I’ve I’ve written for magazines I’ve written columns for newspapers and I’m going back to college and I’ve been lyrics and poetry I said I consider myself a skilled and talented May probably more talented than skill that should be a writer but I haven’t made it my profession so I haven’t been dependent on it for my livelihood in a way that if I got stuck that it would matter so I probably never felt that anxiety around it so I’m curious what is that what is that is a phenomenon and if people have encountered it what are some of the tips that you’d have fur breaking through I’ve got to admit something right here I I have made it so that I don’t like that the stories of fiction I write in the essay is that really matter I don’t make my living off those I write copy I you know I freelance really boring stuff I do other things I teach sometimes I do other things so that I don’t have to make a living off of my fiction and I think like you were saying I think that pulling that that that performance pressure that that sort of financial imperative off of my fiction actually makes me much more productive than I would be otherwise and helps me avoid the writer’s block that might come when that pressure hits but you know back is different I feel like it’s different for a different different authors and different writers and it it manifests in different ways basically I I think that the most General it just like the most General way I tend to think about it as a sort of like a paralysis like you’re sitting at your computer your desk your notebook or whatever it is and you cannot you cannot put pen-to-paper you cannot make a words show up on the screen you’re just you’re paralyzed and it can happen because your blank and for some reason ideas and Rose are coming it can happen because there’s so much going on in your head and you have so many ideas that you get overwhelmed it can happen because you’re exhausted or depressed or anxious or worried or distracted basically what it comes down to is that you are like standing in the middle of the road and you cannot put one foot in front of the other and so the best thing you can do for yourself is to say it’s just Cop 2 that’s where you are you like okay I am in a really tough place I cannot put one foot in front of the other and be okay with that and switch gears so if you’re writing a fiction piece and it’s just not working you cannot work on it switch gears write an email and write write write an observation write an essay write write a you know what’s in thoughts on a book you read rights and thoughts on a movie you read right you know right it right to a friend right some tweets write a Facebook post just switch gears to something that is absolutely not the thing that you are stuck and and let that go let that roll and sort of let your mind just sit quietly on its own with whatever is blocking you with whatever’s got you paralyzed and then at some point gently bring yourself back and say okay you know what let’s try to put one foot in front of the other but keep the pressure low figure I’m going to come in and write a sentence and that’s great if you write this is awesome and if you can’t it’s okay you know that you tried your best gym I set it aside and come back to it tomorrow just you know when the last thing you should do like if a person is stuck and they’re terrified and they’re paralyzed in the middle of the road the last thing you want to do is flex shot at them and buried them and beat them you wouldn’t do that to another person so don’t don’t do that to you and just try to be try to be gentle take the pressure off and then you know eventually just keep keep on going don’t give up but but do it in a compassionate way I love you you know what what did it came up earlier when when you were reading was did you ever see that movie Pump Up the Volume. Yeah absolutely not so subtle influence I don’t think I’m actually thought of it I suspect if there’s an ambulance there it’s pretty subconscious but hey you know that sometimes you’re the best influences are like it’s so dorky but I really feel like like sexually formed me a great deal was a member of Bram Stoker’s Dracula back in the early 90s with my friends and it blew my head off just so many difference depictions of sexuality in and female sexuality particularly in that won between Mena and and Lucy in that the brides and stuff and I just remember like actively consciously identifying with each one of them in very different ways and it was the first time I had archetypes to apply to myself and so that’s that’s always been like if I were if I were to say that one spell more sort of 1 narrative performance really ended up I die really really like imprinted hard on that movie as flawed as it is and it’s you know it’s not but man that really did that not one nailed me hard and then and then different definitely Pump Up the Volume was in there and like Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman and just yeah definitely very very end times you doing that one was so creepy you know going back and watching that you know her performances as a Selina Kyle and Callum is just heartbreaking you know that the degree to which she you know she was divided you know and how she couldn’t she couldn’t have it both felt equally at the same time and then she’s got this creepy little dude Raggedy Ann it’s really as it’s fascinating it’s it’s it’s fun going back and watching these movies like I’m going to go back and watch some of the movies now that you mention it cuz that one is to totally yeah she’s real glimpse into that where you located at approximately it’s a culture shock to drive across the country for sure I had before then I live just in the Bay Area and New York and La just cuz that’s where I went to school and where I ended up working and stuff and little live live in Texas for 9 months is completely outside of my experience that it was one of the most like I think I was one of the most profound growth experiences of my life was just realizing that my little bubble was very much a bubble and that’s no beyond that were people that had completely different sets of values religious beliefs spiritual beliefs sexual beliefs and ways of living and that you know there was a vast vast difference between us ideologically speaking and yet there was a shared Humanity there and that was like some serious I’m serious at I opening that I’d I really need it at that point of my life wow this is making me want to go and do some deep cover tantric makeovers on small towns without even using the word yeah I feel like very capable of being a social chameleon and building rapport I’ve been touring the country and bands for years so you know you have to get an answer is in punk rock band you show up at the diner at the gas stations in but they’re used to it because there’s so many bands touring and you know I said but it’s it’s always a Charming endearing and sometimes facially deformed you know I mean seriously to the inbreeding get it it’s hard to hide in some of those places in a it’s pretty shocking but but yeah the struggles of women and you know the all of the expressions of even square dancing and things like that I feel like there’s they’re accessing Shakti and goddess worshiping expressing sexuality in ways that it it’ll it’ll find a way to be expressed even if it’s actively repressed through the church or whatever. Just curious now to take take that lends outlet for it and what outlet for that Sexual Energy or a sexual self-awareness is shut off by buying institution and it doesn’t make it go away it’s you know so where did where did it go what happens to as a manifest and other places Gina does it get does it find healthy expression somewhere else like you know in in church choirs are in orange square dancing or in you don’t really great cooking or does it get twisted and assertive harmful and perverted you know by being suppressed you known and how does that what happens to it because it’s it’s not like it’s just going to disappear it still has got to be a gay country music band out there somewhere it’s it’s cliche to like every form of Music except country but I actually I had I know nothing about the artist that don’t listen to it on the radio but I every time I hear it I do feel like well that’s the voice of the Goddess speaking through men being vulnerable in the only way that they can be and get away with it for sneaking it out through there through the yeah it’s it’s it’s a feminine Arts a very hurtful way of expression that they couldn’t get away with in any other sector like flat-out like open the expressed pain in so many country songs you know floss and pain and disappointment in and you don’t like in an Unapologetic it’s not cynical it’s it’s just you know it’s just they’re putting it out there cuz it’s you know the reality and you don’t get that and a lot of in a lot of areas I think of that sort of that that’s license that’s like the culture that sort of maybe more religiously influenced culture you don’t get it as much but that’s super true should we got a few minutes last time and I just enjoy this very eyeshadow get to relax and be is is I feel like we just drink tea or at a beer or something it was was not like my typical extreme activism turn the whole world upside down analyze everything with a sense of urgency is definitely usually like when I do interviews it’s not as it’s just not as like Melo I know what do you want to get to do whatever you like to shout out and hype and promote your website and best ways for people to to connect and then if you have any any words you want to share things people should look out for it and it’s all you can find me on social media and I’m so you can get me there at ball and MJ names and on my website you can certify me find all the other places where I am so my website the Great One Stop Shop there and that’s www.njnews.com m a l i n j a m e s. Com and the collection Roadhouse Blues is going to be coming out this summer with go deeper press and they’re awesome I just want to throw that out there by the way they are super amazingly sex-positive amazing activism just there an amazing publisher so I would definitely definitely say even if I wasn’t I didn’t have a book for coming with him I’d say check them out to their boss in there it goes deeper press.com and Zoe at the collection is Roadhouse Blues it’ll be coming out I’ll be on a book and paperback and probably available on Amazon and all those normal places and you have basically I guess I guess but the last thing I would say is just the world right now is is rough people are really struggling in the world is always rough but it feels like in the past few months things have gotten so that it’s gotten heightened up so you know just anything anything you can do to sort of find out find a place of empathy with other people’s experiences try to even if you don’t agree to try to understand where they’re coming from and and communicate Your Truth as as effectively and compassionately as possible I feel like that’s super important right now is there more people understand each other at the less I was going to get demonized and we could do with a lot less demonizing each other so thank you for the words and I guess there’s one thing I’d like to to ask for you to share about what you’ll be you know for the people who are just be more line on digital forms of texting all of that you know I if you could give it a sort of a Aroma to romanticize print media and book reading a little bit if you have any like a public you know a public service announcement around that and also I just the last thing I want to say is it a you have a great voice for spoken word I hope that you do read some audio books of your material if you haven’t already so that they can be used more easily to digestible for people who don’t have two hands to hold a book anymore cuz they’re on the computer all the time I was never thank you so much that’s really awesome compliment I’m hoping to do an audio book and read it myself because it’s it’s it’s fun I love it and I love audiobooks I love honestly I love books in pretty much every form you can get your hands on books like audio paper hardcover ebook whatever it is whatever your whatever your groove is you know go for it and enjoy enjoy the written word you know they’re amazing amazing stories just to be to be found on websites on podcast podcast I really enjoyed your pot has it been in but enjoying it so much I am a podcast just jumped and electronic media is a great place to do that so find you know figure out what you’re into and fell down the rabbit hole whichever rabbit hole that happens to be yeah dilate your attention span for an experience that isn’t just the Sound by sounds like so that’s cool I’m glad you’re saying that because then it’s not like because because Book Sales are going down in book stores are closing than writers are going extinct know they’re adapting and you’re adapting so thank you thank you for keeping the long version thank you I feel like hanging in there with the long version that’s it that’s a different kind of reward you know they did the sound bytes are good but if you can he can hang out there a little bit longer with whatever it is you’re reading then they’re worse than that to awesome alright then melon will thank you again for your time and we will definitely be in touch and I look forward to your work coming out like you for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temples every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episode if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email event at Tantra Punk. 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