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Abolishing Circumcision as a Form of Child Sexual Abuse with Nurse Courtney Garner TPP159


Courtney Garner Pic

In this episode I’m joined again by the one of the most experienced and highly qualified tantra practitioners I know, Courtney Garner, for a heart and gut wrenching (but absolutely necessary and long over due) discussion of the shadow of circumcision.

She has done some deep research and has created an amazingly entertaining and informative video to share her factual findings, thoughts, and emotions.

Please watch it here:

We broadly cover:

  • the historical roots of practice
  • theories of it’s motivation and it’s rise to dominance in the western medical paradigm
  • the shadowy history of the sex-negative medicalization of the practice
  • why it’s ethically, medically, psychologically, and sexually questionable to say the least
  • how to manage and care for natural penises with foreskin
  • myths about hygiene
  • personal anecdotes that help illustrate the benefits of being uncut
  • and more!

About Courtney:

Courtney Garner- Mindful Living, Tantra, and Sexual Healing Expert
Authentic Tantra® Practitioner & Tibetan 5 Element Healer, Nurse, Board Member IATE

Courtney is a highly effective Mindful Living and Sexual Healing Expert providing instruction and support to bring mental balance, emotional fulfillment, and awaken all forms of pleasure in our lives.

She accredits her contagious joy to being “refined by the Fire.” From early experiences of trauma, she has cultivated spiritual integrity, compassion for others, and a passionate love of Life!

As a nurse and Tibetan Tantra practitioner, she’s woven Western medical knowledge with Eastern holistic methods to expand the scope of health and wellness available to the public. Courtney guides her clients through a spiritual adventure, with concrete understanding of the body’s physical and energetic synergy. She focuses on empowerment through building body awareness, and having a healing system in place to maintain spiritual health.

Currently, her mission is to share the art of catalyzing spiritual growth by integrating sexual energy, and using this power to further our conscious evolution.

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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin podcast episode number 159 I am with Courtney Garner again of absolute Tantra. Calm and we’re going to talk all about circumcision today it’s been a subject that I am very passionate about but I have sadly or unfortunately been somewhat of a coward to to speak out a lot about this I am at my mother blessed me to remain uncut and and I have some stories about my experience with that a growing up in this mostly cut culture and will probably get into a little bit of that that anecdotal stuff later I buy just wanted to say that the main reason this is happening is because Courtney put together a fantastic video that is so fun entertaining and educational and just really no-nonsense straightforward important facts and some of the most obscure and pertinent facts to really understanding I think what you could call it a really kind of Insidious conspiracy that’s been going on and you know you there so many different Insidious motivations that that need to be looked at and anyone I feel we will get it wait but we’ll get into that I’m going to stop myself from going to soapbox but this is just please continue listening please go to the video go to the web page for this podcast episode or just go to her website or YouTube and definitely look at this video and and hopefully every time you or someone you know is about to go through the process of making this decision to not do it blindly into have as much of the as many of the facts and as much awareness is is possible on this is really the best now I’d say go to Resource so with all that said Courtney thank you so much for making a video and for doing all your great work and you’ve given your background before so why don’t we just get started right with them if you know maybe some updates from you how you’re doing what’s new what’s planned in a few in the near future and I will get into really your research on that video and and what you’d like to share with people there Courtney I’m guessing find more about me at Absolute Tantra. Calm and I’m really happy that bin appreciate this video because I made it because I wanted people to have the information and I know that that’s a big thing that’s lacking around circumcision nobody talks about it cuz I’m really excited to share with you guys that information today but I’m a full-time Tantra and struck Michael living expert and every day I’m just working to give us more knowledge about our bodies about our spiritual health and how that’s a necessity pressed into breaking her everyday life means no worry about her spiritual healthy guys how we feel how we can process promotions and lately I’ve been working on making my myself actually making myself more accessible to people in person so I’ve been doing a lot of healing sessions lately going to people’s events still that stuff is something I’m up open to do more of a really thrive on Connection in person connection I reached out to people and sharing information so that’s why we get along so well because we both love to teach and share about what we know will help other people so I can have this life I live in that we’re growing up and as we learn we have the ability to to share and that’s a gift so and I did as much as we can in the future you guys can fight wingsnmore webinars I know that’s something that he would ask me to do more of those so I will just going to be a challenge with no activation button are coming up in a couple months so look at my website for updates that’s awful absolute country. Calm so yeah that’s that’s update on me and still living here California enjoying the sunshine and join the peaches really connecting with nature out here and making that a part of my daily practice so yeah yeah so maybe I will get started so do you want to talk about just the your motivation and more about your motivation and it’s just a process kind of a behind-the-scenes for that video and then we can get zoom in on some of the the concepts and the history and what not in the video was I found out about the infant circumcision about the trauma that I’m from doing research and you know being concerned about men’s sexual health and I really had no idea that something so normal so common and you know kind of prescribed some something recommended is so harmful and causing us on and sew for me is like if they knew if I could just share this information with people they knew that it was damaging and it wasn’t just about you know having a penis that looks neater and is less prone to infection what they’re doing that I think they would change their minds and so that was my motivation at first released a infant boys they give them the chance to grow up intact give it a chance to grow up with your full sensation when having that contribute to their connection with themselves connection with sexuality was the feminine energy and I think having a foreskin contribute to all of that the goal for this the video that I’m going to get you was really for us to be able to share and if you ever have anybody that’s having a baby boy and you you know you’re not sure if they’re going to circumcise or not just a wire do is send them the link and they watch the video and I’m very confident that they will change their minds if not email me your heart make a survey circumcision hotline don’t do it. Don’t know cuts very simple but it changes the course of that man’s life how he how he perceives pleasure how you perceive connection Harper has his own body and of course there’s a lot of men that are circumcised right there and have a wonderful Sex Lies they have a great connection with your penis and I want to celebrate that also this is you know not in any way to make men feel as if they are incomplete or lacking something without foreskin but it’s too late down the facts that it really does cut out 70% of your sensation and a lot of other things are going to get into later but if equations of it is real so we want to treat it seriously don’t just brush it off as some elective surgery that you don’t make your your child’s penis look better as he grows up right now that’s a thing to understand that right and is it okay for me to mention that you have a background in nursing so you actually have someone would you say that that you’re back on nursing helps inform your medical perspective on this issue so you actually are in a position to argue very intelligently about hygiene about all this stuff really appreciate that you have that sums curious if that was a played a role in your in your chest to your lens you know protein is the reason that I love human body and I love to understand it and know how to heal it would have to be in there so bringing in Tantra to that was not an extra layer of understanding and knowledge and now I might be able to work with the energy so that we can heal the body so bringing my nursing into that I’m thinking about yes hygiene and affection and then also relating it to the homologous structures of a woman’s body and how we perceive that cuz if we can open ourselves up and look at each other instead of separating you know this is what men do this is what women do when we can use each other’s each other’s forms of Reflections do you like Hey Okay so the only is sensitive where am I sensitive like the young Edie the nipples are sensitive nipples to be sensitive or not just you know meant to be there and when we can open ourselves up to seeing the potential by reflecting off of each other then we’ll both have will both expand from there I think it’s it’s good to look at the other body so yes my nursing the knowledge that I have about the human body how to heal infection which one thing about the milly fashion about healing illness in the body and now with the understanding of Eastern healing tactic a healing techniques Eastern medicine now I can see how to go to the root of the issue so that I feeling the symptoms you know taking supplements can go to the root of it and where is the energetic and balance that’s going on and so that helped me to understand also with circumcision that you have parts of your being that need to be connected in order to feel whole right we have our spirituality and sexuality we have our emotional part in that all needs to be integrated with her mind when we engage in sex when we want to have a whole experience seeing how the brain damage seeing how the procedure of circumcision traumatize has the Babies R A normally causes changes that is an obvious sign that of course you are going to be in misalignment if you are not able to feel at peace in a Philip field one with your pleasure I’m so yeah that’s that’s really what I would have comes down to his connecting all those dots feeling feeling at peace feeling at one with your pleasure feeling cold with your body no matter what it looks like awesome yeah so this is something I believe I first heard from Devi Ward she at one point and one of her podcast definitely been a few years now but I believe She interviewed somebody who had some scholarly research that could basically pretty convincingly prove that there’s a correlation between the more patriarchal Dominator or like conquering cultural relative to circumcision in that there’s a correlation that just male violence is attributed could be attributed in large part to Justice to be a little less scientific a little more a little more spiritual psychological that you know I guess you could say I definitely would imagine that if I had that original trauma at Birth or near birth and if that was my first impression of the hostility and the violence and the aggression the world that I would probably pretty resentful and want to or just be more susceptible to to the seduction of evil doing it whatever that make might be for a culture it just seems like a way to really set people up to be if opposed to Nature opposed to to life in into just be easier to manage is soldiers or whatever so I don’t know if that’s that’s kind of a if you encountered much of that or if you have that intuitive sensor if you have thought you were an astronaut Abby great was that because these changes that have been is a doctor call doctor doctor call tanara he’s done a lot of research on it actually found some of his documentation of his research on circumcision. Org so I guess not go there and do your own research but he was talking about the solar change it on the brain that they saw after the procedure on these babies wear with reasoning emotions perceptions so just thinking emotional processing is a problem there and we know it’s a society that we have a major issue with toxic masculinity with men not being able to process your emotions be able to connect with emotions and a lot of it has to do with the space that there and write the environment that they’re in the that allows space for men to be vulnerable to be emotional but just a naturally if you think about how difficult it is versus how easy it is for a woman to connect right what do we do what is what patterns do we have in our society that we still can contribute to that and I definitely believe that the regular routine circumcision contributes to our are men’s lack of emotional connection or ability to process it and that’s one of the things that if you think about in the in history how they gain control over men rice Russia attacking sexuality with women how you gain control over women attacking a sexuality it’s a major part of our existence is how we got here so when that’s threatened it’s just a part of us and we are majorly blocked when our sexual or sexual energy is block it so yeah it’s a definite control device whether it’s intentional or not I think that that’s definitely part of our our societal issues that we want more emotionally bulb one of them want men to be able to full space for our emotions emotions rights of course we want you to be able to do that for yourself first and I think that will be a lot more accessible to do when a man has a sore skin intact and has also had the environment to cultivate that so there’s factors of course in though you know the way you grow up but without the initial trauma of being an infant and you got here like you just got here a week man and bonding with your parents your mom is your number one caregiver you know you trust the most you just got here a week and they put you in the spice and lock you down and the anesthesia that they use has theirs is not tested to be a hundred percent effective and baby still show paint you know pain is we can’t do it for them we can see the signs of it and it’s grimacing screening till they pass out and those are signs that they’re feeling pain and then next thing you know they have this this bandage around your penis and a big part of them is gone really interesting part about the foreskin is that it’s the most sensitive part of a man literally has special tissues inside the tissue that that they actually throw away or are they sell we’ll get to that later but they’re special cells and that she does not anywhere else but it allows a man to have his orgasmic sensation with just a foreskin and of course it’s going to ask you is pleasure going to add to his sensitivity so yeah wow there’s the other so much amazing important and say in this and so I guess it’s hard to kind of organized this but so so yeah we pretty much covered the I’m getting a little bit of a glimpse into the trauma of it and I think now the the the next logical place to go with this after kind of setting that that tone is to just try to understand put this into a historical and cultural context and I think what was people am assuming that were people the kind of cognitive dissonance people have about this it’s just that they don’t have really any clue about the origins or really how how it relates to just a cross-cultural perspective where we don’t you would think that you would compare to other coach and save why is everybody doing this if if all these people are still if a huge population percentage of the world population is still doing absolutely fine naturally what what’s the comparison here and there’s just obviously that this Narrative of everything and Western Medical Science being the most tested in the most proven and everything else is primitive relative to whatever we believe is The Cutting Edge no nope no pun intended but it’s actually a really anomalous a really anomalous and kind of bizarre cultural form of expression in I mean you could compare it to clitorectomy or or stretching earlobes or putting plates you know there’s so many ways that people modify the body in traditional settings however that form of modifying the body is not is nowhere near as widespread as ear piercing and tattoos and haircuts and dying the skin and stuff like that so it’s a very I’m just wondering if now if you would if you talk about what you’re sort of broad overview is of the origins of his practice and how it became so monolithic and in medicine and all that stuff today can Muslim cultures as far as religious reasons a lot of people do it for cultural reasons but as it stands there are our country will the US has the majority of their males are circumcised and that number has decreased last five seven years and I think that’s also because of education but the the use of it for LeSabre cultural reasons even historically the bris it was she was ceremony Packers right but it started off as just a Nick flesh you know the cause of blood sacrifice didn’t actually cut off the fool for skin on it so that itself has developed you know into what it is today but in the western culture in 1870 dr. Kellogg the same guy that made Corn Flakes he was a person that really did not like sex sex was bad. It was sinful masturbation was definitely something that’s going to send you straight to hell and then also just sex in general was depleting to the human form it was like a succubus draining something you should definitely avoid major brain fog and all that so he came up with a campaign to decrease the likelihood of boys masturbating I’m in that included by changing your diet so he thought that plane Foods grains and nuts those kind of things reduce your desire but things that were flavorful increase your desire so I thought that by giving voice clicks and is Bland cereal is going to help reduce their desire also teach you how to get you full and you I guess I guess for him. When masturbating you did that this guy has no marriage he had children that he adopted but his wife and him slept in separate rooms never had no, sex and so this is the guy that’s making a protocol and for me when I under when I realized this was kind of this is how it started in the US as a regular procedure when he talked about it in his book about purpose of using not using any anesthetic because the pain associated with that is going to be in a really make an impression on the baby boy that make you never want to touch his dick again and it’s going to buy some that was the purpose of it and now how do we get from from its starting this way to stop masturbation where now we know that masturbation is not so much stronger pain is more kind of you know marketed in the court and Industry is encouraged to just you don’t masturbate so it’s not I don’t think that’s the reason to dip the reason definitely is for normalcy everybody does it the end of the Corn industry most of the penis is there are cut it looks neater understand that that’s what they say and so as young men growing up as young women growing up actually just see me images of the penis is that we do see there you know they look neat natural and to us that becomes too good at becomes the you know the normal and natural Tina now has a bad rash looks like it’s some it’s a the ugly one but in reality it’s it’s how you’re born and it has a lot more function and special special function to it that really makes it valuable and some rest you can see and you just kind of cut it off without having a grounded a really good reason to do it then that’s where the hole is is that people are still doing it without really knowing what it is you still allow people send me that it’s better because it’s easier to clean and it looks better to them but I feel like that is is not enough reason I’m to cut up and listen to the part of your body that’s it that seems like a real a real disconnect and I believe did you make did you make the analogy one point about how the what other place on human bodies is moist and needs to be cleaned up so why would we not let’s another male thing to use a man right then you can be messy you can I get some dirty socks and maybe a little smelly and you’re so cool as a Lawman we’re supposed to be clean smell great clean and dry all that and so we will be going up on what with a lot more Yoni shame and awareness of sentence moisture and all that and also because you don’t have a white hole where his men who especially the men who are circumcised they don’t have the sense of a wet hole they have been exposed but if they were to be more natural part of the foreskin the reason for it is it keeps the glans moist so you have the sense of this moist soft delicate tissue on your body and I think that’s a really good analogy for to drive with women because hygiene so you know it’s a natural thing for us all to be aware of and a simple thing like that could make up man with a natural penis just feel good I know that talk to men with Napa penises in car their insecurities in the past has been you know girls maybe don’t want to give them oral sex or they feel like it’s extra skin is is extra skin is not nothing else and I was just an awareness but if we can’t allow people to understand what it is and why it’s great it’s just like the yummy lips would you tell your you know what to tell a woman that her extra skin in her labia majora our lady Lenora was ugly and that she should trim it off would you tell her that you know other girls have no clitoral hood and that looks better and so you should do that like no we wouldn’t do that and I feel like that’s the lack of empathy that we have for these male bodies is understanding how sensitive it is I agree and so yeah I feel like I don’t did you did you come across this at all in your research and if not I’m I just it’s just kind of my my random armchair Siri but I feel like the the the utility of their of there being a sort of cultural conspiracy to makes it to normalize circumcision it seems like it came out of the area and it and and places in the world where perhaps there wasn’t as much available water to wash with and for soldiers who are Marching and and perhaps didn’t have any the expediency of not having to have a responsibility to care for your foreskin and and cleaning and drying the glands and all that it seems like it would slow down battle and soldiers in war and that’s just my my picture for conspiracy theory about how they’re probably trying to streamline you just remove any obstacle to trench work that surviving a trench warfare because it is already I mean well any form of warfare with your Marching for days and you may not have you don’t we wouldn’t a general would not want the liability all right man we need to hike 15 miles out of the way start sit water so we can all wash your junk you know I don’t know I don’t know if that’s it but it seems like station Fort Fort cock Spa on iPod worn itself right or create new habits if anything it creates new habits based on the the need for them to survive even like his think they say in Romans with the boys they had little boyfriends when they are out at War and that was definitely a different change in their their normal society and they did it to adopt a war so even now let’s see if the circumcision they’re doing something to adapt to war and especially with the penis if it is infected if it’s irritating but you really can’t do anything right it kind of puts you makes you miserable so it’s a distraction so it doesn’t make sense for them to find a solution for according to those times, but right now where I am why do we need to continue this procedure and we can’t really find I can’t really find a good reason but I know what the damage it does and part of that damage just you know I’m keeping men the glass ceiling of connection right yes it is. I was probably a spectrum from the more Moline to the more benevolent or sort of benign just visit a couple of things to come to mine one is never attribute malice to what can be explained by incompetence so it could be just that you know the if there was any justification which and I don’t think either you or I would have would agree that that is a that is justifiable to do that cuz so I call your men are really empathetic and feminine and they don’t want to go in March for days and be wasting their their Gardens in her family while maybe that’s a good thing I know and then yes oh it did there’s that I mean there’s two sense of there could be there could very well be these beasties agendas well that’s a very the way that you do the research you’ve done pretty much exposes that they’re there is Extreme anti pleasure hatred of pleasure which to the extreme levels of just dr. evil kind of stuff and then hiding in the guise of Medical Science and that’s another thing that that hurts so much cuz it’s like another betrayal and a stab in the back to be trusting doctors and have them be demented Twisted sexless freaks that are hurting people I’m a skilled and that’s not the first time this has happened I mean even let it the guy who put lead in gasoline and is responsible for so much like one of the most ecocidal Maniacs it’s ever walk the earth like I said documentary on the history of his legacy and science just one you would think it came out of some conspiracy theory but yeah I think the not everybody is doing this the parents that are signing up for this they don’t really have any clue about these agendas and they’re just going through the motions right and didn’t you have some research about there being even Financial incentives by a sort of circumcision industrial complex of sorts do you want to talk about that that yeah yeah the soap for skin part of the motivation which is not a surprise right because his money behind everything so there’s products that use fiberglass of those are the cells of the foreskin those are the cells going to give you this nice you know very useful look anti-aging is a big interest rates at use industry so there’s ice cream that you use you appliances like you know any level eight and Tiny face rain but it is made with the cells of course can baby foreskin so think about all these regular routine circumcision if we were to stop them then where’s the market for the foreskin cream like that’s millions of dollars maybe billions of dollars that there that they’re going to lose so just like any pharmaceutical company that if they were going to you know if your taking medication off the off the market that they lose money through that hole that hold medication another reason to you know promotes problems and give him a big give him a fix for it so you know what circumcision if we were to yeah if we were to take off that that that Supply then how would they meet the demand for a product that we can you know you don’t get it one way and that’s by harming a baby so that’s why I think that’s a huge motivating factor and the reason why I still exist because we have too much sense for that I believe you guys you don’t go on so so easily without giving it more of a thought process ends really considering wants to use the foreskin that would love to know how it is to have it oh yeah there’s ears markets out there to do facials for it you know just got your biohazard bags full of some baby foreskins he’s just off to Europe for something kind of creepy kind of catabolic but we’re doing so you’re basically putting the emotional trauma of babies on to our faces for us to look better like ice exchange or making basically brought that up and I just feel like all the animal rights people all of the human rights people I mean this is it it feels like and also the approaching and the removing tasks from animals and just it’s it’s this only leads in One Direction which is trafficking if that’s gay. I mean it sound level that’s going to be part of it yuck I just can’t I can’t believe it well Olivia had something else to share if you guys the funny fact about dr. Kellogg so he had a lot of other crazy ideas one of those crazy ideas was understanding that diet affect you or your mood and things like that so he thought you know what’s changed I change the person but he wanted to hook people up to accommodate a colonoscopy so she’ll two flushes your whole bottle system with water but then the next thing he does need injection yogurt from your esophagus and your anus at the same time he fills you up with yogurt but this is a procedure that he proposed tested to get done to have you know as a regular medical procedure on thank God that one. You know knock. I got to be towed and they didn’t approve that one but that was never mind that we you know that he’s operating from so just a fanatic and even if it wasn’t you know him just his his hand the reason that this is this today just knowing that he was a pioneer of it and support it and give it some medical basis which is what people you know what people look for and that’s kind of the the the delusion she was thinking that when someone gives you medical basis for a procedure that it’s now safe and yet you can trust it do your own research if it’s yourself know your own body how do you feel and really think about that because you can’t trust anything. That’s when your motivation that’s not in your best interest right and I’m going back to contemplate consent if it’s a child who does not have the ability to be to have informed consent in your apparent than the responsibility to do this research because you were taking your basically that is really the most core trauma that men carry it the who have that who had that procedure done so I wonder if you know I’m I’m just got to be parents out there who’ve gone to the experience of realizing that they made a mistake after they did some research later and then just I wouldn’t want to live with that thank you I mean yeah so so be great to get into some of the the more than myth busting my ass bigger things and I’ll share a little bit about my life history this is the first time I’ve ever really access these memories are shared them with anyone but but I can remember vividly the first time when I had a urinary tract infection when I was maybe five six maybe probably five or six years old and I just remember having no shame in public about squeezing my my junk and as hard as I could and screaming and that my mom you know help what’s going on and and and it was just to let you know that the run-of-the-mill garden-variety urinary tract infection and we had to go to the doctor and the doctor I didn’t feel any shame or anywhere nice around around that but basically what I had been doing without better instruction or knowledge or training was that I would just be urinating through the foreskin without rolling a back and I have done that just out of habit without having really any other brothers or any other reference point for uncircumcised men so that was just can’t you know it was that important important to provide that instruction I realized and I but I went to that and then I was told from that point you have to roll the skin back and you have to keep it clean and dry and you and I even this is interesting to is like I sit down when I pee and I wipe the tip of my penis so that when the force been forcing goes back down I’m not leaving you know droplets of urine sitting in there to get funky and so that’s something that should just be okay that’s a no-brainer I mean that that eliminates in precludes 99.9% of anything that could possibly ever really go wrong it’s just accept that there’s some healthy natural moisture and that it is important to to bathe regularly and another the best reason to be anti-war so that we can have more uncircumcised men one kind of memory for my past growing up and then ever since then it’s it’s not been a problem and then I think there was a time when I at some point in early life was I don’t think I was really made fun of maybe I felt a little bit protective like I would maybe choose a stall in the Boys Room in school or whatever where I wasn’t exposed as much as I would notice that I was different but when I asked my mom about why that was you know she said I was not going to mutilate you that this is how you were you were born this is how your Nature Made You know she wasn’t really religious I shouldn’t say this is how God intended you but when I think about it this is how God intended as it were born perfect and you want to use that religious car you going to play the religious card then what why did it go I made a mistake is that possible in your book I don’t think it’s possible that you broke so how about using that back right back at you with the Perfect Design do you as a nurse or someone now that you study this and with men I don’t know if any of your male clients are suffering from this I know some dinner actually going with like reconstructive surgery options and stuff but I’m just curious if you have now if you’re going to kind of put together for yourself a a list of recommendations you know if her parents and stuff Here Pay Here’s to make it easy for you to make the decision to leave it intact you got to just have these basic bits of knowledge you know about about hygiene really if you feel like you found your working on something where you can make it easy for people yeah I think that’s that’s something that I definitely should get to because even to do my research I didn’t realize how widespread the ignorance was just like Paris to First Look up and taking the information openly and see okay now I have all this information and if I want to continue to heal could you have a circumcision and what are your reasons would that what is your intention and I think act asking yourself those questions will help to make the right decision of the healthiest decision for your baby cuz remember this is not about you circumcision is not about you at all it’s about your child and child care concentric Ben said he can’t stay don’t cut on my dick like I can’t you so it’s a lifetime decision that you’re making for your child so take it that seriously and will do everything you want me to mention Ben or something I just if so if you when you’re describing the people the procedure when you’re when you’re describing the people that procedure of cleaning there is there is you looked at you you found some information about what’s what’s generally clinically recommended for a yeah a term for a for what when you’re supposed to basically you do need to do some age-appropriate work to make sure that the foreskin develops properly and there’s a bit of a if there’s if there’s there’s some extra steps in the process that could be observed to make it a more seamless Afrin no pun intended to seamless missing the process yeah but the foreskin naturally retract on its own and usual start to do with you know between ages of 2 and 6 start to separate the foreskin is attached inside to the penis and so you can’t force your traction are you really shouldn’t but it’ll start to AutoZone and usually that’s when we start to see some smegma like cheese and soy sauce sauce around that or I feel dirty but it’s just it’s natural so that’s skin sloughing off then as a man used by the time he reaches 18 he’s able to fully retract and that will happen at its own pace so each each bodies different there’s not like a set time when a man says like okay right now I’m at my horse that should be retracted so just really pay attention to your body and when you when you do clean it the reason the foreskin is there to protect right so when when you clean it thoroughly fact you want to make sure it’s clean it’s dry and I say treat the foreskin like a vagina when we watch a vagina we don’t put any harsh soaps in it use if anything when you can use soap and water warm water and the gentle you know brushing up our fingertips but you want to put put it back when you’re done so you clean it you dry it and you put the skin back because it’s kind of like putting back on your protective protective sheet and that’s to help keep it moist which keeps the tissues healthy and sensitive and when a man is you know when a man is circumcised when he’s cut there is no sense it there’s no protection there it’s overtime and overtime gets less less than to do I saw the foreskin is there to keep that since its you keep a little bit of moisture in on so don’t always know that that’s that’s natural and it’s part of the glory of the foreskin is to be moist and to be charged it to be able to stretch and move provide lots of sensation awesome yeah so now it be great I’m sure we haven’t got through some of the the shadowy stuff and some of the medical stuff let’s talk about the fun stuff and why it is I can see how I can talk forever about the fun stuff you know what I could say a few things but I’ll let you continue a ninjas what why is there mutual benefits for lovers when it comes to the foreskin remaining attacks like I said it has a special cells in it and there are highly sensitive to come to light touch but also sensitive to the stretching of the foreskin so they have your foreskin like an accordion like flesh as it’s going in and out of the woman as soon as in and out the stretching is opening and closing it’s stimulating you exponentially stimulating versus if the person is not there and what it does to is lemon for skin helps the seal in the lubricant do you guys think about the way up Mushroomhead works it kind of goes in and out on it and you know for some women that might make them dry up faster or are you just really matter but eventually it does pull out a lot more moisture than the natural penis natural penis feels up the kind of shields seals up the connection and keep the moisture in and what you have also with that moisture so I want you to picture of unni picture a natural penis inside he’s filled up that connection right so now we just have this dance of the Yoni lingam together and inside of this this pocket the Yoni you have the flu at the other foods of the lingam and the flutes of the Union mixing together and this is a different level of energy in food exchange that you’re getting when that happens so there’s that keep you in Wister and then there’s also be the first in bunches up on the G-Spot and it helps women to get more pleasure internally so internal internal orgasms are little more elusive to the female body so we to get internal organ orgasms the natural penis actually makes it a lot easier because of foreskin bunches up it creates more friction more pressure and because of the sensitivity of the foreskin excelled think about two matches your other come together in the mix a big flame vs. without the foreskin you don’t have to match the kind of house you know the match and so with the foreskin because it’s so sensitive and highly erogenous like a clitoris would be there be able to join these these highly orgasmic how do you write his bones together and create more so that’s that’s why it’s great because you have two bigger Rogers of tissues that are joined forces and just fax a natural penis is not as good not going to be as highly erogenous as far as highly righteousness as a natural penis and that’s just because lack of nerve endings right that I mean an intermittent issue is not there anymore so it’s a it’s a there’s two factors even there because not only are you deprived of that 70% but you’re also dumbing-down and deadening whatever percentage you have left through all of that chafing and all of those jeans and all of it all that so I I just can’t imagine what it would be like in end I’ll say I have well it’s it’s it’s a lot of voltage even without anyone else around you know to be playing within and working that end and it was when you know I actually something came up for me just now that I hadn’t thought about in a while is that I-84 number of years in my Virgin during my Virgin years is a boy had a lesson I would actually hump thing is I would hump the bed and I would make love masturbating with a really highly developed fantasy sort of architecture but I was using my hips and I was grinding the bed and I was really holding and grasping and imagining a full body beloved in my fantasies and so I wasn’t just whacking off just with that shut that we wrote the shaking the dice motion that everyone makes fun of them just know I seen it too many times that doesn’t prepare your whole body for for all this so for me to have that so we didn’t text you this where’d you get braces private the Segway for the practice vagina so it’s not only does it feel smooth and you don’t need lube and it hits its it has its own and you can masturbate for hours without chafing with boob and obviously coconut oil and whatnot it adds great sensation to experience in and what not but on but yeah I will say from from first-hand experience it is a practice vagina and I can’t help it if they write themselves and then so yeah that ability to Tekonsha see how things and all you can say that I’ve been in relationships where if my partner consented to me having humping on her legs and her ass and wherever her breasts you know when she wasn’t fully in the mood but she was consenting to that just being especially when I was like 18 19 and I was I had to get off every morning every night and so it wasn’t it wasn’t a big deal and I remember clearly just that it was a consented routine that I would just take care of myself by grinding and humping on whatever was available as long as I was to you know bothersome with it and so anyways just a million reasons why having a practice vagina works and if it’s nice that you get with your foreskin that you don’t get without it and let you can just when you masturbate right your foreskin whatever Lou better precum comes out like it stays in there longer so you get to use that natural lubrication and our natural lubrication is a very slippery slippery and think so it’s the better better look for us than you know even the best oils so the 14 also it’s just meet so perfectly for your pleasure that I still see why we wouldn’t want to have it but you have to practice the practice vagina other things that I feel like it does for men is it gives them access to the level of sensitivity that we feel so if we think about how sensitive the clitoris is sensitive the tissue of the vagina are and a man who has a weather has been circumcised right over time his glasses been Catalyst not as sensitive as it used to be he masturbates in a hand that is also not the silkiest thing ever done with maybe you lotion in their products that are also not as silky as a wet vagina or his only pretend so overall we have experiences and habits that are developing less sensitive to what you know a woman experiences with her silky wet hole cuz that’s really what it what it is and so when I say treating you know empathy for the vagina for the Yoni I mean that’s the level of sensitivity that we feel cannot really be accessed without the proper amount of nerve nerve endings to feel that amount right so foreskin can do that and the smoothness the gentleness that you guys within himself he can now relate that to when he’s sliding in a woman but without that I thought that experience of the lacking a lot of men and it shows with how they have sex how rough it is also important is that too but it really is if you would feel what you were doing and you felt sensitive we felt it then I thought everything was going on so I think that’s part of it be with the Oni and understanding a level sensitivity that we’re dealing with very true I can attest to that well well this is been a wreck and what it feels like 5 minutes went by I can’t believe time is my flight leave early on a roll but yeah I like to give you time to share more thoughts whatever else you might have I don’t know if I missed anything just from the general outline of the video but I definitely I mean you put together so amazing effects and it just so it’s so well done I could I just say I really applaud you for that level effort you could tell that you’ve spent so much time really Anderson so much passion and purpose in this so I think there will be a whole generation of boys who will be thanking you for sparing them from this barbaric practice and I see you know you don’t. If I say I guess I should say if it is your spiritual religious practice tonight I don’t mean to I’m to put that down but I will say that really the the for me this is just my soapbox on this is that religion and spirituality should be something that people have full consent to be to choose animation be given as many options growing up to explore what works for them and just literally forcing someone in that vulnerable and innocent State into a direction of you unchangeable or virtually unchangeable Dogma that’s a really unfair it’s very unfair so there’s people who do it later you know you can always do it later if you want to and a person’s more mature although yeah let’s you get into law the ethics are but that’s my final thought on this for now and I’m just want to really encourage people to watch this video it will bring everything we said fully to life and something you can it’s appropriate you can share with the teenagers with schools it’s not it’s not too raunchy or any way inappropriate for four people I’ve ever believed to to learn from Sao yet what do you want to any other points that we missed that you want to touch on and then of course you can direct people back to all your websites and all that good stuff yeah I just wanted to just touch on men that are circumsized and that feel for all men are circumcised really because it’s a lot of times with you know you put out a message a video like this with a purpose to in the procedure and people will will watch and they may feel like oh no I’m broken or they might for them is highlighted that they you know they are missing their foreskin that’s not my intention is to draw weirdness so that we are habits fall into alignment with our greatest good our greatest potential our greatest happiness so even if you are if you’ve been circumcised or no most men out there are because third of our world population circumcised things you can do to regain sensation regain wholeness spiritually to fill hole with your body if that’s something that you feel and do my research I have learned that there is a group of men who feel a little chit in Italy on recall over there feel like you’re missing some I feel void may be mutilated even because they do not have a foreskin still giving a license to those guys and saying yeah like there’s there is help for you on their support for you and it’s it’s a valid feeling that you have cuz a lot of times those things can be in the Overlook ter you no thought of as it’s just in your head but no it’s not this it’s real shit and there’s definitely people out there like bin myself that support you and support you in your healing and in people who have been circumcised have a great sex life that’s also very real and so you’re one of those people that are happy with how you feeling your body then that’s that’s beautiful but also be open to sharing the knowledge so that maybe the next person you know they circumcise circumcision would you know do more harm to them so don’t think just because you’re fine they are both is fine that’s what I’m saying different types of promise if people don’t have any awareness of, and maybe they’re great in their happy and having a great sex life but be aware and know that there is space for anybody that feels like they’re in need of healing in support and as far as restoring still there surgical ways to do it right and I’m a nurse always say non-invasive first so I would never tell you that surgery because usually it’s not as it’s not going to be the same as your original that’s because you know special sells bundles of cells in the foreskin that you can’t you can’t replace on but you can grow more nerves in skin that you do have and you can stretch the skin you have so they have creams for that they have stretching devices where it’s just pretty much consistent daily stretching but in reality you know you guys have to think about this if you really wanted your your foreskin the one that you will get your own back would be visually it would help you see your penis cover it and it would help with the protection help moisture help take away the callus from the glands and have more Sensation that waved but it would tip it would take a lot of diligent so anything you do you know Reawakening with just take practice support diligence but anybody can increase the sensation in the penis so I just want to let you guys know that just takes some structure instruction and support that’s all it’s all you need for all this stuff for that I’m sure Ben’s really familiar with being using conscious awareness of your touch and then including that with the killing methods of specific I’m in order to weaken more unnerving to stimulate the growth of more nerve endings so that he can feel more so that’s that’s doable guys it all the time so do not think that you don’t have any you know don’t limit your own potential and yeah that’s that’s pretty much all I want to share about that there’s I am going to be talking about a little bit more about this tomorrow again it’s going to be a chapter on Instagram so you can stay up-to-date with me on my discussions to just show us where we going to talk about healing to talk about connection Consciousness X all that stuff things we need to do better and feel better but yeah I just want you to share this video I stayed over three three little baby penis is in my family so far cousins and such and I’m happy that they’re intact and they’re going to get to experience their holness so if I can do 3 then I challenge you guys to at least you three to you yeah I know you don’t have information that you know then will spread the word spread the word that way that’s a great that’s a great concept that text you I’m thinking what we’re saying that it said it would be cool if there’s some sort of petition or pledge or just a Ticker on the website it says this is how many people play just not to perpetuate this practice and you know you can be cool and some something like that I mean I’m sure it’ll it’ll evolve on its own somewhere I know there’s a guy who created a comic book superhero called for skin man I believe and I heard an interview and say comic book and yeah there’s definitely is definitely spirited passionate activist out there to connect Griffin and people who were who were really doing the Grassroots kind of activism stuff and hopefully hopefully I’ll be able to get more involved but certainly for now this is again yeah thank you for that video it’s why we’re having this conversation it’s long overdue on my end and the others healing and redemption in recovery and in all forms and I got it. Do you like brother to do so there’s ways to resensitize any tissue in the body where there’s been numbness or trauma so that’s we really have the ability to use mind over matter to her awareness to whatever is left in an area so yeah I think we should still lots of healing for everybody and and all that good stuff so so yeah your absolute Contra. Calm and at township with Courtney on Instagram and yeah that’s that’s amazing so thank you so much keep doing all the great work that you’re doing and we’ll hopefully have you back again in the future sometime soon to talk about new and exciting adventures and I can’t wait to see what you come up with next in really can’t wait for you to have a Hollywood or discuss Discovery Channel production budget to take your Curiosities you know I ain’t too with really hate you know cuz you already doing really amazing production value stuff just hacking it together it seems like on your own but if it was a real production house was behind you then I could see a lot more miss being busted a lot more truths being exposed and all that good stuff so I’m going to pray for that awesome thank you so much for being a part of a wonderful evening and we’ll be in touch soon all right have a good night podcast please go to and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition to sustaining and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple after bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email Brent at charger Park. Com Thomas Day

Words of Praise for my First Tantra Initiatrix Rhoda Jordan TPP154 Transcript

Ode to Rhoda

I clearly remember the day back in 2009 when I opened my Google Alerts after recently setting up a “Los Angeles Tantra” weekly email update. Rhoda’s website was the first local tantric coaching service I discovered. I was a starving artist with most of my income allocated to creative endeavors that lived better than I did. Despite my tight budget I was eager to learn and study tantra so I immediately drafted a proposal for barter and prayed for a miracle.

I offered two hours worth of website design and marketing consultation in the form of a free diagnostic report on her website, if she saw value in my suggestions, she could choose to reciprocate with an introductory tantra training session.

My offer was accepted, I got to work, and the rest is herstory. In our first session I was guided to connect deeply with breath, movement, sound and visualization. Her calm, soothing, and confident voice sonically illuminated my path towards life-long on-tap kundalini shakti bliss. My Tantra Glow was lit up for good. She exuded the benefits of the practices with her Buddha-like presence. While so many modern pseudo-masters trigger my skepticism, she ceaselessly earned my highest respect and admiration. My anxious and impatient patterns (typical of a late 20’s new age seeker) of swinging from diet to diet, workshop to workshop, program to program, best seller to best seller, were put to rest in the timeless serenity of her guided meditation sessions.

From the first day forward I knew there would never be an excuse to suffer, to be neurotic, to be lost in ego drama, self-pity, or delusion. That’s not to say I’ve been perfectly enlightened ever since, but rather, I know better and trust more than I ever did before, that enlightenment is always just an intentional breath away. I learned quickly that with the application of simple yet effective techniques, any and every moment in life can and should be an opportunity to embrace divinity, and open the heart and mind, body and spirit to the healing love of divine source within.

I began attending regular donation based group trainings at her lovely home. Her charming and endearing husband often participated providing a warm, supportive, playful atmosphere. Their true love was expressed beautifully throughout their home. They have always been a co-creative power couple, inspiring awe and reverence in all who enjoy their friendship and their works.

Several personal life chapters were written with this modern tantric temple service as the highlight of my week. My often complex, interwoven and at times entangled destinies seemed to harmonize with greater ease and synchronicity the more I deepened my tantric practice. Rhoda’s sincere care for my personal progress and affirming astonishment at my wildest accomplishments kept me motivated and proud to be a product of her guidance. While I don’t officially represent Rhoda’s brand, our sacred dynamic is at the core of my personal, professional, and charitable practices.

A lot of my convictions are controversial, my positions and postures are edgy. To remain in good standing with those whom I most respect, I must continually ask for feedback and advisement. It’s impossible to effectively moderate my radical sloganeering by myself. There’s a magical effect when being a student helps keep you in check. My ongoing efforts to earn Rhoda’s approval and pride would get me out of as much trouble as it would keep me out of. The quintessential yearning of an initiate is to make their initiator or initiatrix proud. What better reason to be disciplined and do right than to stay in good standing with your school.

Discovering, loving, and being loved by the infinite expressions of Goddess internally and externally has made me into a cosmic “momma’s boy” in the best sense of the term. I’m a tantric goddess worshiper, I have established my own personalized practice of classical “Devi Sadhana” under the advisement of human and non-human Goddesses. I can’t emphasis enough how important it is that tantric power and wisdom be cultivated, sustained, and transmitted by women, as it was in the mythic beginnings of the radically feminist Shakta Tantra movement in India.

Please allow me to zoom out a bit, to frame a bigger picture context for the female teacher, male student dynamic. Modern “Neo-Tantra” has a sadly but truly deserved bad name. Sex is the slipperiest of slopes a dear friend once said. Tantra men are notorious for getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar, manipulating women with cultish pyramid schemes whereby they are convinced to pay to purchase the only key to their enlightenment which conveniently happens to be hidden down the Guru’s pants. I doubt I will ever descend into debauchery with so much to lose. Rhoda was the first of now many modern priestesses whose spiritual authority gently but firmly watches over my conduct and thus my karma.

Who knows what kind of a douchey predator I might have become had I fallen into the hands of a shameless master such as one of the many who have been brought down in scandals of late. That’s not to say men have no proper place in tantra. We men need to teach, train, and condition each other to bow down, serve, and devote ourselves to Shakti. By doing so we are not spiritually immature soul-sucking parasitic “submissives”, we are true warriors and earners of the classical tantric title of “Vira” (Sanskrit for “hero”). By humbling ourselves and sacrificing our egos on the altar of divine feminine wisdom, we can be graced with higher knowledge beyond conception. By being vulnerable, dancing and chanting open our higher chakras we can hope to climb towards the majesty that is the cosmic womb, fractally distributed to every wombyn on Earth. When we men become Yoni Worshipers, the Yoniverse will bless us with blissful revelations and incite us to build Goddess Temples. Demonic energies devoted to greed and war will be transmuted and evolved into divine service works to heal the planet and restore regenerative culture.

All men have known the desire to impress a love interest. It has been my experience working with female tantra teachers both “hands-on” and “hands-off”, that this sweet and innocent drive can become a most rewarding spiritual practice. What if men were taught to also seduce and impress those beloveds only seen by the third eye, only wooed by recitations of their mantras. What if men could become so shaktified that every sexual act would be devotional meditation, performed in a ritual container, meant to honor and please not only his partner, but also to appease an invoked Goddess?

The rape culture is a symptom of desacralized sexuality. The objectification of women, could also be called the materialization of women. I have been taught by Rhoda and now many others to spiritualize women by honoring their Shakti, and in turn cultivate Shakti within. There’s no better return on investment, I promise.

I sometimes call myself a gender traitor but I’m not a self-hater or a man-hater. Men have potentially infinite strength and power, we are vital ingredients in the energetic alchemy that is red tantric practice. We, in our diverse physical manifestations and sexual orientations, are essential to the electrical engineering circuitry and triangulation of duality towards ultimate unity. Thanks and praises to the ancient tantric devotees and adepts who encoded an unforgettable schematic in both the mild and wild depictions of Kali on top of Shiva. He’s supine to symbolically represent humility and sacred subservience to the divine intelligence and superior sexual-energetic capacity of the Goddess.

In less flowery and more modern language, a man needs pussy training the way I child needs potty training. My work with Rhoda has always been platonic, hands-off and clothed, yet she has taught me some of the most important practices to ensure I’m able to endure the ravaging of a multi-orgasmic woman. The first steps on the path towards male sexual continence, aka “ejaculation choice”, are to activate and open the higher chakras so that all of that high voltage erotic energy has places to go that are up and not out. The bigger and stronger a man’s heart chakra, the more ripped his pelvic floor muscles, the more expansive his lungs, the more loose and limber his hips, the better tuned his singing voice, the less he’ll have to fight premature ejaculation and the more present he will be to behold the rapture of his beloved. The satisfaction and transcendence I have co-facilitated with my lovers can be attributed to the most fundamental and non-explicit tantric practices, most of which were taught to me by Rhoda.

In the near decade I have had the pleasure of knowing and working with Rhoda she has blessed my tantric path and career with a formal and customized initiation program, blessed my music albums with mantras and meditations, blessed my gardens with her eco-spiritual workshops, blessed my acting and educating career by inviting me to model in her film productions, blessed my romantic relationship beginnings and endings, blessed my film productions with her insightful reviews. She has been a perennial blessing.

Disappointing her would be devastating. There will never be a team of jocks, nor frat brothers, nor sympathetic parents, nor heartless lawyers, nor slimy agents, who will push me violate or excuse me for violating the sanctity of a woman’s body/mind/spirit. I have too much to lose.

I’ll end on an uplifting note. When I first watched Rhoda’s Chakra Rights Meditation video I felt like Neo being psyched up to rise above the rules of the Matrix by Morpheus. I got chills and felt a deep ancient roaring power boil in my blood. It occurred to me that I should build some wings to help it fly so I tucked it into a mid-tempo trance track with a root note of C# in A=432hz tuning so it would be a perfect 136.1hz Om frequency experience. Selfishly, it made it easy to dance and meditate regularly, it was like a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich in a baggie. Ready-made, ready to go. Selflessly, it has become a tool for rapid tantric initation for my own students. A sacred dance music track is worth a 1000 mantras, and probably hundreds of thousands of English words. I have prescribed it to skeptical private coaching clients, I’ve warmed up workshops with it, I’ve romanced lovers with it, but so far it’s most glorious application has been the following. I started a Tantra for Sexual Abuse Survivors group and one of the attendees happened to be a social worker providing rehabilitation services for juvenile criminal sex offenders. She took a liking to the Chakra Rights Meditation track and reported to me a couple months after we’d started working together that her clients, who she compassionately and maternalistically referred to as her “babies”, were now dancing and meditating along to it as part of her group therapy sessions. It melted my heart to learn of this and I immediately thought of a talk by Dr. Robert Sapolsky, a scientist on the biology of human evil. In one of his talks he quotes a Catholic Nun in Louisiana who ministers to death row prisoners who said, “The less loveable the person is, the more you must find the means to love them.”

I’m a survivor and as much as I want revenge, I know love is a more powerful instrument of restorative justice. All the abusers on Earth are victims of necrosis of the chakras, their chakras are rotting in the putrid dungeons of non-love. Their innate connection to the source love within, to the natural love of the Earth below, to the divine love from above, has merely been choked off, encrusted, and plaqued by their own early life and past life abuse and trauma. The antidote, the solvent, the disinfectant is love. Love is a vibration that has to be sustained for it to resonate. I trust Rhoda to co-lead the choir. If tantra can be entrusted to people of integrity like Rhoda, I will have great hope for humanity. And I will hope to be given good missions and assignments by a growing decentralized intelligencia of dutiful mothers who train and teach boys and men to salute, bow down, sing, and dance to the little and big “G” goddesses throughout the Yoniverse. May we all seek to eternally impress Shakti in her infinite forms, and hope to earn the opportunity to sip of her divine nectars.

Cultural Sexology with Dr. Zelaika Hepworth Clarke TPP77


Zelaika Pic in this episode an unfolding process of synchronicity results in my prayers being answered to find a scholar of cultural sexology to be on the show. Dr. Zelaika Hepworth Clarke breaks it all the way down, flips the script, and helps us start to know how to know what we don’t know using a radical approach to cultural narratives of sexuality she calls “multi-epistemic literacy”. Sex geeks, sacred sexuality practitioners, sapiosexuals, and sexual revolutionaries will be having multiple eargasms during this episode!

Please support Dr. Zelaika’s noble efforts and visit her website here:

AI Generated Transcription:
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear beloved’s welcome to Township Punk podcast episode number 77 I have a very synchronistic situation here which is that I sort of setting intention in one of the recent episodes to kind of reach out to researchers in social sciences particularly in the throat and throw type fields to get a sense of more of a pre-colonial pre-industrial maybe even X pre-agricultural and I sort of Baseline for what how long love making last the frequency of it and if there’s any sort of General data I mean we have data about the dental data from archaeology we had we know a lot about with what types if any violence were happening organized violence or so much data that has been generalized and it’s been really enlightening for people who want to have Hope and Faith in humanity in so I have this I’ve had this I guess kind of Armature hypothesis that a lot of what time should a practicing in training is is is grasping for is a Renaissance of a more Primal modality of lovemaking that was far more ritualised initiated into supported and endorsed in facilitated by community and really woven into spiritual and ecological psychology and I am so excited to be speaking with doctors at Lake that help with Clark now because she’s going to tell us all about her Research into sexual pissed emology and and cultural sexology which I’m just very excited to hear about and I have some some very interesting questions that I’ll get to you after we hear all about your background and you’re at your Life Path and then your your use of these terms to describe what you do and what you study and then insights you have to share and we can go from there and thank you for having me I am doctor zuleyka Hepworth Clark also known as the jamerican sex ossifer so I really am interested in studying the philosophy of sexuality and in particular I’m really interested in no African philosophy and epistemology so you piss mileage he’s kind of like the way we understand and know that the knowledge and I consider myself a sexually pissed them ologist so I studied the way sexual knowledge is transmitted understood and interpreted in different societies as well as I am a cultural sexologist so I like to study the way cultural influences sexuality in the way we understand love desire and relationships as well as a sex therapist and counselor like your sexuality education and I have a lot of academic background training and in human sexuality I my bachelor’s and sexuality culture on depression and have my Master’s in education of human sexuality and social work and then I got my PhD in human sexuality from Widener University so I’m really excited that there are we’re beginning to have this really important conversation and looking at alternative narratives in terms of how we understand sexuality and sex and love and pleasure that can move Beyond how certain populations May view it in other words there are multiple ways that we can understand sexuality and sex and I think that when we are exposed to more ways of knowing we can we can better decide what is truthful to us and what makes sense for us but to limit our self with only one way of knowing Are No Mono epistemic ways of understanding that is very much tied to patriarchal Christian capitalistic Colonial mentality that we will have alternative approaches to our issues that may come up or or expanding the way we can experience and understand pleasure as well so that’s a little bit about me yeah I was really interested in my researches I was trying to understand what How pre-colonial African societies conceptualize gender and sexuality and I came across ocean ality that is I guess it’s simplified definition is African eroticism that affirms the normality of of sexual pleasure and it’s stems from Ocean sexuality and ocean is a orisha or force of nature associated with fresh water and she has worshippers around the world that have roots in Yoruba of modern-day Nigeria and also spread throughout the new world so and then condom blay in Brazil what’s in Santeria it’s in 00 different religions after african-based a spiritual systems and so yeah I think there’s so much that I learned through ocean ality and and kind of learning about an alternative spiritual systems that was able to incorporate sensuality and spirituality and sexuality and and while respecting nature it really allowed me to rethink and questioned a lot of the things that I’ve kind of Taken these constructs that we take for granted like like sexual orientation or even what it means to have sex and because I was really interested in freeing my mind off of you know for emancipating myself from limited view points that are not conducive to collaboration and you know me support my internal oppression from various spices that are found in societies and so I I my thesis was a 10 or my question was 10 ocean ality emancipate me from I know White’s is heteronormative patriarchal mentalities that may limit my understanding of of an unlocking the potential that I have and so I am super excited to begin the conversation with you and discuss some some some cool things that that are missing from normative discourse you know what is it brings me back to a it was a course I took when I was studying anthro at University of Oregon and there was it was called comparative tribalism and it was very interesting and I was coming that was the first time I encountered the idea of tribalism as a as a negative and I was very sparkly starry-eyed and go primitive S10 was so stoked on all of the feminist anthropology I could find that was really smashing and subverting the dominant Paradigm of anthropology and so the it when I went to that class and it was it was a negative view of tribalism like oh it it’s the idea that people are identified in these very combative for antagonistic groups and it was like the source of conflict and there’s one thing that he the really stuck with me when he had this really this tongue twister academic kind of postmodern Mystic phrase that was he caught he said denaturalization true historic ization and you’re probably the only person that I’ve talked to who would who would like instantly see the utility of that because of your multi pistol at epistemic lens and approach to things and so I’m going to pack in a little bit and then and then ask you some questions be kind of based on where we where we are in alignment about this idea so when we this is my sort of paraphrasing of how what he died and it was just like the gem of the course I really felt like is he saying everything you think you know about a culture’s way of presenting a religion or their way of presenting their differences of the monks neighboring peoples or their relationship to their language all of these things are sort of they become crystallized or naturalized in in a snapshot of history but if you zoom out and you whether you’re a researcher or a member of of of a population if you zoom out and you look at the actual a Cultural Center ticket fee if you will as their cultural layers of transformation over time you’ll find that what we take for granted is usually bullshit in it in the more Colonial Things become the more bullshit you can expect to to find and and it did bewilderment and confusion and just oldies terms even and identity names like on Tire regions named by oppressors that shapes the destiny of the people who were before that of this multi epistemic assemblage of kosher and before I go any further geeking out on on how how I feel about that term it just said I want to say you know this is the life think part of the life mission of a lot of people in the sacred sexuality and holistic sexual health education and you know the practitioners and instructors it’s it’s it’s it’s a new sexual narrative that is all-encompassing and really honoring what was lost and really understanding that there’s been a systematic persecution of all other sexual narratives but the but the one that I think you and I are pretty you know we don’t have to name it but it’s the dominant Paradigm of sexuality which is problematic in a lot of ways so would you be so kind as to give some of your research about how we can we can feel much better about our our pre-colonial sexual cultural ways and where we can look for inspiration to kind of reweave a better fabric of sexuality and spirituality in ecology and I’ll get stuff that you know becoming a sex pervert so the so-called I what I learned is that the more I know the more I realize how much I don’t know and that there are there is so much history that has been silenced because history has been written by the so-called winners and it’s very androcentric or just kind of you know the the male perspective you know all this is what war happened and you don’t you don’t there’s certain really important pieces that have been missing and some really interested really what what that looked like and think about so far so I think about Sankofa which is a a communicator at the symbol it’s a philosophy it’s a spirituality found in of the akan of Ghana and its I apply its means kind of the importance of looking into our history to learn from and to kind of be able to move forward in a in a positive way I think one of the sayings is it’s not taboo to remember that which has been forgotten and I am so I applied this term to sexualities and I call this is like this is one of my theory so I’mma sexual theoretician as well and so I can get this Sankofa sexualities to two kind of stem a field of study that looks into you know prehistoric are pre-colonial ways of viewing sexualities and genders and allow men and sex and relationships and what that can teach us today and how we understand what we know and how we know it now and also a new way to shape the future and so am example of Sankofa sexualities would be ocean alley which is a concept that I discuss are found in African sexualities a reader by Sylvia tamale and there’s a chapter on sex positivity and it talks about it explores kind of what eroticism and sexuality and sensuality look like without having to depend on you know patriarchal religions and capitalistic ideology to guide our understanding of that and so we have very different ways of understanding sexuality and pleasure and fulfillment and different narrative so I want to give an example and I hope it’s not too off topic but want to please go to want to talk about one of the Core Concepts in ocean ality that is called the devouring vagina in the west we have a narrative of sex that’s like you know the penis is going to conquer the vagina kind of thing going on this narrative where you know even when you look at the The Originals of the word vagina it’s like sword holder or sheath which has violent connotations and you even look at the euphemisms in the colloquialisms in in our language it’s like you know hit it and beat it and smash it and you know all these kind of violent confrontation. Anyway ocean alley in this kind of perhaps pre-colonial understanding of sex talks about the Divine vagina which is really bass up the aesthetic of Lima talking head oral sex kind of help anyways so when the instead of the aesthetic that the penis disappears during sex and it’s in golfed and surrounded and there’s eight the agency is assigned to the vagina and that is the you know the owner is going to decide whether or not it will allow it will be it will engulf the penis and envelope or swallow or made to disappear so we talked about like pulling out a scene as an act of resistance and I just bought that narrative was really interesting because it was just definitely a different kind way of understanding sex that did that was not phallocentric it didn’t it wasn’t all about the penis and in a way and it kind of talked about how you know the the vagina and the vulva are very powerful and and so I was very fascinated with with this narrative and looking at kind of different perceptions of sex and in my research I was talking to some priests about kind of condom blay about this concept and they said yeah I mean sex doesn’t have to be phallocentric or or or and then I told them about this Sino devouring vagina and me or like you know it doesn’t have to be gynocentric either they didn’t say those words but I’ve been getting a lot of pushback talkin about it being called you know it’s sex it sounds like are they reverse sexism here and people being very worried about you know how men are going to take this narrative but I think that I think that it’s an important concept that there are different narratives available and also looking at Opening Our our way of having sex the one of the priests said you know it doesn’t have to sex doesn’t even have to revolve around genitals it can you know it can be and then the one said you make sex with the wind it will be truly powerful and I first I was like how its way to think outside the box here I was thinking about you know sex something to revolve around to humans I thought you know my definition was pretty open but man and then I thought about ecosexuals and those who are able to make love with nature and you know and are different aspects of Nature and really finding fulfillment through their senses and different parts of you know erotic nature even through sounds and music can be very arousing and and pleasurable and fulfilling and can change your mood and decrease your stress and all these all a lot of similarities or benefits that people have sex to do there’s pleasure and fulfillment that can happen you know your your ears can be a sex organ there’s this new trend you know hashtag eargasm in those who are able to experience pleasure through Sounder in the ER and I’m looking at different parts of the body and how they can experience pleasure and it not having to revolve around certain genitalia I think that’s a very obvious way that we can receive pleasure and connect with people in a very deep and sexual way but I think you know opening it up to experiencing different forms of energy and the way that the way our body can receive the energy and and trusting our body to interpret pleasure in different ways is there’s just so much available to us when we begin to kind of open our mind and how we can experience connection and eroticism in pleasure without having to feel shame or I know no Stigma around the pleasure with that we feel I have to caution that I’m not talkin about you know I’m consensual acts that I’m not talkin about pleasure in others there specific cases that could distort my words but I am talking about matin reimagining kind of what our sexuality and who we are sexual beings can look like when we affirm pleasure in our body so yeah. That’s a little bit of kind of reimagining and so I go in my research I go into I was using mindfulness as a way of kind of undoing negative effects of colonialism and just kind of being really present and I’m so is doing different body scanning and tuning into what I smell and what I hear and what I taste I was thinking about sexuality and sensuality or sense Raleigh being a part of sexuality and that these that the pleasure that I received from tasting delicious foods that are so good that it makes my water makes my mouth water and I like the sound that I make on taste so good you know it’s it’s a very sensual experience that I can have with with eating certain foods and tasting certain things that aren’t that bring pleasure to to myself and I thought about you not pathologize anything they think that there’s parafilias or those that have no abnormal desires for certain non-human things and it ends up people may feel shame when they experience pleasure in in different ways but only open ourselves up to all the pleasures of of life and and different kind of aspects of Being Human and living on the planet with many different things to experience I think it can really open us up to exploring what Joys and Pleasures that we can receive so yeah I mean that’s kind of like going to using language to describe my experiences of connecting with nature or with you know my my experiencing Pleasures do my senses and kind of putting academic language Johnny two kind of you know substantiate what some of these experiences are that do not Revolt that that we can experience pleasure that’s not revolving around a penis or a vagina is so much to it write thank you for sharing that yeah I totally agree and I have this this kind of thesis about 50 shades of green and how I don’t know if you actually well this is probably a good time to mention this above all things you’re aware of the I’m not going to try it I’m not going to butcher the the pronunciation with the click sound but there comes and the Kalahari one of the quintessential will one of the last true foraging Societies in transition to you know modern modernization all that but you’re you probably encountered quite a bit of literature on them I suppose over the years yeah means my my studies and you know looking at 6 realities and and you know the anthropology of gender and sexuality courses that I’ve taken there’s so many there’s so many different you know cultural groups that have a supportive system that thinks of sex in a more natural way when I mean by that is it being a use is a way to create Harmony in different societies and thinking about you know these sexuality schools that existed in pre-colonial African societies that kind of look at pleasure and different techniques that could be used to create a essential environment all the above but I don’t know that particular one do you want to talk a little bit about it to me just because I got really fascinated with the actual distinction between tribal societies and band level societies most people lump everything that’s not what’s a well it’s kind of an orientalist turn right to say that it’s Tribal because it really it’s it doesn’t really accurately like the new wageview of tribalism is isn’t really based on that political designation of band level you know what is it lineage chiefdom you know tribal agricultural state I’m probably missing a few in between there but there’s kind of dislike hierarchy pyramid in anthropology that starts with the egalitarian band level societies of 25 to 50 people foraging nomatic maybe doing gardening and fishing and some forms of will probably a lot of actual unseen forms of horticulture over larger cycles of time that don’t look like Gardens with their kind of gardening the whole reality really but anyway that’s a side note but the kind of sin have always fascinated me and one of the things that I discovered recently in my shamanic studies is that they have their own perhaps the oldest technology of accessing what in Hindu Tantra is called the Kundalini activation experience so they have a group ecstatic trance dance that lathers them up and like spiritually Cooks them to the point where physical mental emotional illnesses are like purged and and in and expelled by the very visceral medical immeasurable phenomenon physiological and phenomenological phenomenon of this Rising heat from the base of the spine and they have a different narrative about it I believe they they believe it it’s it’s it’s a downward inner systems but I’m not as much of an expert as I probably will become overtime but now this is kind of a fresh thing that I’ve discovered not too long ago and talked about the thinking out of the box and understanding that the power to be in the second the Ecstasy is healing right so if we achieve that through dance we see that through psychedelic Shamanism through sacred sexuality then we achieve that orgasmic Zone Bliss state of fuel to ssf Healing potential magical potential and that’s something that we’ve been absolutely like it is been you know the valve to that power has been systematically shut off by the monotheistic religions and so we’re definitely on the same page about wanting to ReDiscover and I feel like I want to be a publicist for these things like I want to be a PR firm it says did you know press releases yeah there’s a tribe called I believe they’re called the Arca and they don’t even know what masturbation is because they have sex so much that they would never think of wasting a drop of potential you know baby better because they’re actually in a human be called a logical sense that the explanation you know is that the Western explanation is that I don’t and I don’t know what narrative stay I can’t quote you the translator narratives but there were there were studies of them asking him why don’t we know do you know masturbation is apparently according to study which is probably somewhat obviously it’s Sensational to say that they had no idea what masturbation was but the the the more the more down-to-earth truth which is verifiable is that ostensibly verifiable is that they they have a unique sort of Niche where there is a high infant mortality rate so they have a higher pressure to be more productive more reproductive because of their human ecology in that makes them this I don’t know somewhat anomalous case of being kosher that that is they call it a night work so yeah so that to me that stood out is one example that there comes in and then I believe they’re called AQHA I’m becoming a nerd scholar of these really invigorating and just and healing examples of of how beautiful the cultures that were intrinsically sacred in their sexuality how how beautiful is it to discover that you so you are given some some beautiful examples yeah you were about just please enlighten us cuz I think this is such potent medicine to have hope securing About You Beautiful story so far how many different cultures and different ways of knowing about how to you know I just I think of you know and I can’t remember the exact ethnicity where it’s it’s not a shame you know parents are proud of their daughters to have multiple boyfriends and that at least it’s power how do you know that the girls are encouraged to seek sexual pleasure and the boys are kind of not initiated but trained by older women to to please the women to please their future partners and it seemed as just kind of this I just had seen in a different way obviously went when they have these narratives where you know younger you know all teenagers are encouraged to have sexual activity then no no of cultures that their average time to have sex at night is 8 times per night every day you know I think about how that must be a different you know mentality going into it when that when the frequency is so much and they’re just even how we understand you know human development and I am fascinated by societies that were unaware of the importance of sperm and reproduction and thinking about enough a paternity yeah just yeah yeah that where you know parenting is act on the you know it takes a village to raise a child kind of mentality and develop a fetus to According to some lucky different different cultures I just Mmm fortunately I do think that these kind of narratives are going to be harder to find and they are being oppressed and I think it’s really important for these kind of ancestral memories to be for us to be reminded of and for us to learn different ways of viewing what what sex is and how how we can experience it and you know what it is what it is in means for us mere humans are meaning making machines and so very interesting kind of I think oh we’re so objective are you know this is the truth but there are many narratives available and I think the more narratives that I’m exposed to the more I’m able to see the Beauty and the diversity and even my ability to shift my narratives away from victim or oppressive narratives to more of narrative associated with Liberation and empowerment and joy you know and so there’s there’s yeah I mean oh my goodness I think one of the young just bring it back to eat Pista mology I was thinking about epistemic violence or kind of the way that knowledge is been as of all knowledge production the way we understand facts are very much controlled by those that are in power and it marginalize in a in a presses other ways that we can know and other indigenous ways of coming to understand having a deeper understanding and so really just listening to different perspectives can really be healing and transformative and so I think that Tantra and ocean ality and kind of learning about you know are pre prehistoric which is problematic to even say prehistoric prehistory in a western wanted to date their understanding of history or her story her her story and our story and their story there’s so many stories that are missing words that are coming up that speaks to alternate perspectives but I’m getting on the herstory bandwagon and it kind of remembering what did the narratives have been marginalized and Reviving what that can look like and yeah just there’s just so much yeah you are also mentioned that there was a practice of herbs for Yoni and Alia look at sexuality schools in different parts of of of sub-Saharan Africa that that goes that part of their sexuality training is to be able to use nature to enhance eroticism so finding going and learning the herbs and even different tree bark or elements that are found in nature to either tighten or moisten the vagina or use ingredients in foods to cook Afrodisiac you certain scents in kind of create that romantic kind of vibe and set the tone for the intentions of lovemaking and I’m thinking about different techniques I know that even dancing and certain gyrations and you’re moving her body and a way to to kind of train or be aware of different erogenous zones the way we move the way we look the way we dance looking at how just yeah thank you thinking about different kind of things that can be done to enhance our sexual encounters was definitely something that was in incorporated in to traditional Creek elem of learning about sexuality but that is definitely not in our repertoire right now in terms of you know what we learn we have to learn about how sex is dangerous and how you can get STIs and how it can lead to pregnancy which you know it’s very important to have that awareness but it’s going off of the feeder baits rather than a pleasure centered kind of focus and drums of what what what can be experienced and three I mean they talk about sexual pharmacology that are found in herbal stimulate stimulants and mood enhancing effects and things that can sustain erection or you know encourage training to make love making noises or you know even the the importance of breathing in the way we breathe be very important in and how we are connecting with with our bodies and with the air and with our community as well so yeah well he is something that is so interesting to hear these words I think you so much that I really feel like you were sent from someone helping a Divine answer to my prayers to have this conversation because it’s really it’s really disturbing I had to feel like an outsider wanting to celebrate sexuality and return it to the rightful place in nature and sacred ceremonial rituals with proper guidance and facilitation in the the the things you want two things that comes to mind is is is it’s just that when people kind of wake up from this dark sexual Dark Ages and the sexual Enlightenment and Renaissance continues to to expand and Blossom I think it will be very I hope the people will think about it or maybe look back and say while we were so we were so far from our most complex most intricate most obviously pleasurable but just the the technology of the human sexual physiology and its connection and wiring to all these Divine potential forms of ecstasy that you can write you know you can sing songs write poetry make aren’t you you what your culture will be occupied busy for four generations trying to grope at the mystery of what lies beyond our normal sense is when we achieve that through sexual ecstasy and so it’s like we’re we’re obsessed with all this gadgetry and all this technology and we’re really destroying the planet in this this narcissism of gadgets and you know external forms of entertainment and we’re just overlooking the most fun regenerative sustainable hopefully affordable access to this experience that should keep us very so intoxicated on the nectar of the Divine and in in just the Glory of Love Making in the Continuum of orgasm that we would just lose all interest in chopping down trees and stabbing and shooting each other especially for the men you know that if they were given this instructions in training in and then then all of the values in all of all the patriarchal and societies would change so you know I think about the importance of self-knowledge and knowing who we are and outside of the narratives that we that we’ve been trained they looked at you know african-centered ways of understanding self or how to study self on that’s one of my my methods that I created my research as decolonizing Auto ethnography so I studied the well so if not if he is kind of the traditional anthropological way of looking at you know different cultures but it’s kind of speaking for the culture they auto part is the self I am going to be talking about myself as I I’m analyzing the culture and I did that all while decolonizing my mind and really thinking critical about the history of colonialism and slavery in and I’m really focusing on healing and I think that I’m I used that to kind of help me better understand myself and my relation to my culture and other cultures as well but I also have been exposed to this idea no self-knowledge as a means of social justice as a way of knowing who we are really important looking at you know how can we study self we can look we can find Clues and nature in history and then also they say that some of the literature says study God that’s interesting you know what that can look like and different and do spiritual settings and I think about you know the importance of that God should be decolonize because that’s like you know I look at what you’re above spiritual system taught me they have the there their language do Yoruba language is genderless there’s no pronouns and there’s no need in our in their language to differentiate in a female from male in and so God all oduamadi is known to have both feminine and masculine entities and when we were when they were forced to speak English by default God has been assigned the male gender and so we have the force patriarchal ization that occurs in the language just to kind of translate genderless concept into a very sexist kind of language English it is that is very kind of the Privileges the mail it privileges you know binaries and very biological understanding of what sex is in there in the specific time that we’re talking about because course when you start studying biology and the sex of biology we see biologically there’s over five genders on a chromosomal level we have a range of different combinations with x Y chromosomes being found in women and xx chromosomes being found in men and let alone intersex people that have maybe blessed to have both genitalia has or maybe an ovary and at-st or you know who knows there’s so many different combinations but unfortunately you know they’re seen as abnormalities even though they might be 1% of the population and and yeah anyway so I’m going into all this but just you know we have to have to start opening up to other ways of knowing things and and having that just kind of inform how we want to make our own meaning of of what it means to BB sexual and just another part of sexuality and learning about self is exploring where your erogenous zones are knowing knowing for yourself so you can help guide your partner and also explain what it with your partner as well and and this can bring up trauma for people because our body has memories can hold memories and being really respect in terms of where which which position are which part of the body may may be triggering and to deal with you know the effects but healing and using pleasure as a way of healing is very powerful and knowing our sexual or spiritual sexual self or emotional sexual self are physical sexual self are psychosexual self there’s many aspects of our sexuality that there’s how old is another concept that I think about is the interverse or your inner Universe to be explored there’s so much inside of us awareness of ourselves that can be explored at first I thought know if there’s one thing that I know it’s myself and I Know It kind of was in the area in terms of what I know me and they have access to my everything but then because I was exposed to different ways of understanding self and different histories and different cultures than I was able to kind of think differently and then and again having the experience of thinking that I knew something but then the more I knew it in the more I learned that I didn’t know it and kind of using a beginner mind to explore myself not having to be held hostage in terms of being a victim are being consistent with my past but kind of having being open to creating new possibilities for who I want to be as a person and how I want to live my life and that not being restricted by how I was conditioned or the culture that I grew up in or you know environmental restrictions but really I have been blessed to have the privilege to be able to think about an imagine what does a sexual Utopia look like what does sexual Euphoria you know how can we kind of Imagine these these these this next kind of paradigm shift in terms of where we can move into a more what lip what does liberation look like for my for our sexuality these are questions that I the privilege to explore the way I don’t get very far because I have my people that are being killed and I have you know people that are hungry and there’s there’s people that are going through really we have people fighting for clean water and you know there’s issues that kind of you know we got to take care of our basic needs to begin to kind of explore these more fun kind of topics but I do not have to acknowledge that if we don’t have our basic needs met then you know these these conversations are fun to have but not practical I hear you you know as you’re speaking it’s I’m feeling this the the pain and the does just the madness that is all of the Declaration that you’re talking about is you can really I think very very accurately in diet and blame the sexual dysfunction of the western world as the absolute root cause of the materialism that’s robbing the so-called less developed or third and fourth worlds which I will let you know where are horrible evening either again the English language totally putting his hierarchy on things but yeah I think about Maslow’s hierarchy of human needs in it’s just so yeah I really I would love to see you have $1000000 to make a National Geographic program out of bringing bringing the eyes of modern people into these places so they can see this glorious alternative more Primal holistic ways of being in the net judges I think we have so much fun thank you for that I want to talk a little bit about abundance Consciousness vs. scarcity I think that I think there’s that it’s important to kind of have a mindset that looks at you know love and in a way that is abundant versus something that’s a nose and scarcity model where it needs to be hoarded and where we have to possess something and it’s very kind of you know I don’t know it’s just kind of limiting but when you’re in another kind of using the abundance model to think of Love is there so much of it right there so many different types and so many ways to love and experience love and so many types of love and there was that part but I also want to talk to you you had mentioned pain and I have been on this kind of Journey of decolonizing pain does I think that pain in the west is very much a terrible thing that we have to try to avoid and it’s just bad right but I think that I looked at these other narratives that you know you know Rites of Passage that have people that you know have Traditions that have been deemed that horrible because pain is involved but I looked at their narratives and how they interpreted their experience and and pain is looked at as a type of wisdom as a form of knowledge as a way of being aware of a certain reality that those who have not experienced the type of pain are not privy to I think about how kind of Shifting that and with with the connotation of paying being associated with knowledge versus Pain being associated with something terrible that you can have instead of feeling bad about feeling bad and being in pain you can maybe feel good about feeling bad being in pain and so that the negative spiral doesn’t have to know what I think about no just kind of rethinking about paying in a way that it can be empowering in that you know those to get to experience pain may also be able to have a deeper appreciation of painless States versus those who have never experienced pain may not be able to enjoy not being in pain and just kind of the lessons that we can learn from our hardships and it is very often the young terrible experiences that can shed light on what’s important to us get focus on you know what we’re doing here on Earth what is our purpose and you know people who are on their deathbed often come to start an epiphany and often are kind of aware of a certain kind of appreciation that they were not privy to before so I think that I just am starting to meet up with radical self-acceptance of what of my emotions and my and all of life is is not just perfect in the way that it’s only good but there’s good and bad orders ups and downs and it fluctuates and it moves and I think that you know we’ve been sold on the specific idea of that it has to be lookin a certain way and so when we’re not in a constant state of Happiness over me when we get side of the press it’s like oh my it’s at 8 almost feels double bad but to kind of just kind of accept these alternative spaces and okay I guess I’m veering off a little bit and bring it back to sexuality but I think that it’s important to know that there are different ways and different moods that can be moved through and that can create you know conducive environments for sexual pleasure in connection and that may look different than what we what we have been trained to believe but there are many different ways of of interpreting our experiences and learning from other people’s ways of knowing think of you know even childbirth that it didn’t know it it’s supposed to be very painful but doesn’t have to be associated with suffering if you’re in a supportive environment and you know there’s other childbirth ring techniques with a used gravity to know there’s different models available that are not that are not MediCal eyes that are not westernized but are still just as valid that are still we should have be exposed to different ways of looking at things so that we can choose for ourselves that’s where I’m at I’m about having a choice and being aware to to decide what are truth is better for only exposed to a certain truth and not all the truth then then we limit our way of understanding yeah you know I’m seeing as your as your drawing these connections it really to me I see it is a very very intelligently not wouldn’t would not with wisdom of course but if you’re a very very meticulous engineered mechanism of fear and pathology of everything natural and in Primal from we’re talking about the fear of pleasure and the refreshing pleasure never talk about the fear and oppression of pain this year in repression of of death rites end of honoring that part of the life cycle so there’s so many in the medicalization so you can see the Machinery of capitalism is creating these false pathologies so they can create fear and anxiety and then medical and pharmaceutical eyes these conditions that come from a different from the being cut off from healthy sex healthy pain healthy death healthy childbirth and everything in it it’s so ripe for revolution I I think this is a good time for your insights to really be broadcast and and I definitely feel I want to help in any way I can to support your efforts do you want to talk about what what kind of public Persona you may have our ways that people can keep informed with what you’re doing and most importantly I think I really would love to see people who have means and who have collaboration potential or or you know I mean I know some really amazing videographers documentary filmmakers and maybe all it would take is a crowd Source funding campaign with the right Connections in the right marketing and you could be doing something even for vice or another you know I mean Nat Geo might be like the the the highest possible prayer but but in between others other more independent or more edgy media Outlets that would they wouldn’t just be publishing and an answer or Journal you know I don’t alot of beautiful work is stuck in academe because it doesn’t get the right publicist behind it and this is the stuff we need to hear about I think this is my struggle to I mean I’m I’m also you know I want to substantiate myself and I could I could Damion Lee know do those official publication so that I can land a job and pay back on my loans and all this but you know I think about the importance of that’s great but people outside of Vicki Academia are not accessing my work and I really my next up since I’ve used all the fancy language to you know expose how this kind of limited way of knowledge production is is not enough is that the only way I would love to have a create first of all just my next project is trade my YouTube Channel videos just so that people can I can start by up and want to really start at Basics and build up because the work that I’m doing now is really Advanced exhausted fee for you know sex Geeks and you know people who don’t have to talk about I’m not talking about the basics of white privilege and you know sex negativity and there’s certain I can just jump into these really Advanced conversations and I think you know it’s cool even studying Tantra now we can have this certain we’re jumping into these really important conversations which still needs to happen right but I also want to start bringing it to the general population that does not have the privilege of thinking about sexuality for long periods of time like I have and to kind of Translate what we’re talking about into really and I think that video making videos are really cool you know where visual people but also you know having subtitles for no visual or audio impaired individuals and kind of just bringing it to I like videos because I think of how can I reach illiterate populations how can I reach you know just thinking about moving out of course I want to write a book and I want but I think that yeah you’re definitely on to something right now I’m on Instagram I’m on I do very little tweeting but I also know Facebook is my kind of and I’m on LinkedIn to my name is spelled z e l a i pee and I have zuleika. Com and yeah I’m just starting to get my work out there and hopefully this people will start to see the importance of of why this work is really important and why why we should kind of be able to think about things in a way that will gain that will allow us to gain knowledge of of the world and ourselves I think about I talked about the interverse but I’m also really love this concept called the pluriverse which is the idea that there are multiple worlds that can exist simultaneously without hierarchy without you know you know they’re being a right and wrong one but just kind of respecting that there are multiple ways of understanding the the world and kind of beginning to tune into different perspectives to shed light on what holistic kind of you could look like this if you’re only exposed to the Western narrative your your there’s a parts that are that are missing there’s missing things that can really contribute to a deeper understanding of these really important Concepts associated with sexuality and and sex and love and relationships and connection nature and and and all these things so yeah I’m looking at your website now and I’m just floored I mean this is amazing well it’s basic girl you know yeah I mean so even just participate in this Facebook concept contest at the national sexuality education conference where I will present a project that I’m working on bringing awareness 2D Colonial sexualities or non hegemonic ways of understanding sexuality different cultural perspectives that can allow us to know that there are multiple ways of understanding sexuality and next week I’ll trying to see if there’s a possibility of winning funding if I win that I won the Facebook contest and so now Wings over I want to thank you and so I am going into the second round and you know hopefully I will anyway just getting getting his information out of course receiving support in terms of funding to allow me to bring my message to larger larger communities to just spread the love the d d Colonial love new not new it’s it’s new and old you know it’s it’s it’s deconstructing and then reconstructing it’s it’s really having developing our ability to think critically about things that we could easily take for granted but we’re also constructed and and created but who’s benefiting from the these Concepts and what concepts can we all benefit from and and grow and pursue Enlightenment and Injustice epistemic Justice and or these these facts are these so-called knowledge systems that really undermine oppress marginalize in silence alternative ways of knowing and at the at the expense of of us not knowing other ways of knowing and some really on a mission to increase sexual multi-cat the stomach literacy or basically what is fancy academic language but what I’m saying is that I’d like people to be aware that there are multiple ways of knowing about sexualities and genders and love and different ways of experiencing it in understanding it that does not have to be hierarchical it doesn’t have to say that this lifestyle is better than that lifestyle what is your truth and what is you know what is your authenticity and self-expression and begin to imagine what a safe haven for a sexual Utopia could could look like and I think that I think I think we’ll be exposed to Tantra I think we’ll be exposed to Ocean ality I think we’ll be exposed to our history and our you know these different cultures that precede things in a different way that can really shed light in terms of how we want to model our life and how we can heal from either you know historical rooms or or even just watching the news and music videos you know Reviving matriarchal society philosophy and kind of learning from I don’t want to romanticize everything but I think there’s a lot that can be learned and I think that we can take the best parts of different practices and philosophy being careful not to do columbusing and or you know what kind of stealing of ideas and misappropriating but I think that we should be called you know information you think that with the internet that or you know information is being spread that we would be so cold what are more aware but actually it’s really almost confining our way of knowing because you were very specific but again there’s still a lot of potential and I would love to utilize the technology available from me and really thinking about what a time to be alive right now and in the history of humankind that we have been privileged to have this this connection you know how would we do without the internet and I would have met you and I think that it’s just beautiful that that this kind of thing can can can happen in so really supporting this kind of technology so that we can share the love Aleutian yeah I’m really I will be so excited if you were to take some of these lectures that you’ve done and actually make them into YouTube video yeah yeah I would love to do that thing at first sight I had to overcome my you know according of intellectual property you know these are you know this is my my intellectual babies that I worked years on creating could you know go in the hands of the wrong people I have my mom helped me get over that a long time I just got to spread the love but I was kind of bringing it to the audience I don’t really like to meet people where they’re at and kind of access where they’re at so I can start from where I need to start so you know my lectures are really geared towards homosexuality Educators and other sex Geeks and it moves into this Advanced conversation but I think that it’s I’ve got to get it ready to go everywhere to do you have it accessible and that’s definitely my next mission I’m going to be working on this next year so I appreciate you inviting me on on this awesome podcast to kind of just briefly kind of touch on some of the things that we have available to us yeah thank you it’s been such a gift and something that I recommend if you haven’t done it already is have you heard of it’s a it’s it’s sort of the ongoing crowd Source funding platform where you basically your fans your friends your fans your family your investors if anybody can subscribe can makes it a subscription payments minutes it’s more of like a tip jar or in the classic sense of being a patron of the Arts so if people are excited about the work you’re doing they can support you to produce content on the platforms you know if you’re if you’re blogging or making videos video blogging or podcasting or making music or whatever it is creative people who are publishing content into the cloud basically where people get to stream it and you know there’s not a things are just anything you can digitize basically and make it available to people any media that you can digitize and produce it’s a beautiful way to not have to always be competing with sales and marketing of lyrics that are exclusive you know so you could still have all that like a like if you had a missed a bit of advice but just I’m in the same boat am I why I have a passion I want to get my content recognize I also want to quit my day job and do my passion and just do research and produce content and have people who Biggby patrons of my work is what you’re doing is important I understand there’s not a lot of funding for what you’re doing or at least it’s the trying to get funding is a distraction from your passion and if you could just have people support you and you’re basically a magazine with his subscribers doing subscribing to it and paying your bills to be able to produce more content and you know it’s so I would I would definitely yeah I’m just kind of getting started with with that but I I believe it’s it’s kind of the new model and Paradigm so that all of this material that you’ve been working on you can get some some real Financial nourishment for it and you can continue and just keep cranking it out and not and not worrying about whether or not it gets made into a book right away or who owns the licensing there’s this here’s the next thing is the next thing and then people you know it’s really invigorating and so far I’ve heard great success stories on it so I’m really hopeful and I feel like yeah I mean there’s ways to monetize revenue from YouTube and stuff like that but people can be really generous on that and I feel like yeah II a Mia is so rich with this kind of stuff but unless you’re a real geek you’re not even going to notice is you know in the world yet so yeah and you know what there’s one more thing I want to say is which is this this is epistemological I’m like how how come people grok are grasping kind of get a more visceral understanding of how important it is it’s so to me it’s it’s such an important intellectual tool is so because it can literally liberate you like if you want to be liberated you can seriously take apart your belief system with the system epistemological tool kit says you know you can see and then you can take stuff out and you can hack your own epistemology and you can hack epistemology and that’s what revolutions are trying to do in call the autosexual decolonization process that really kind of describes what happened to me when I began to deconstruct Western epistemology and look at African epistemology to kind of unlearn these oppressive Notions and right uncomfortable unlearning oppression and your deconstructing and reconstructing and and you know what Liberation looks like in and looking at alternative models and empowerment and kind of the Praxis of it or the actual turning the theory we have all these great theories lovely I can describe so many amazing theories but then what how does that look like in Practical real life turn and and and using that and and incorporating spiritualities are things that may not be seen physically but can be felt and rebirth like just going through a transformative way when your mind is expanded to New Dimensions hard to go back to the old ways and out of acknowledging that I’m a new person and and maintaining the transfer transformative you know when when I found the moment of Liberation when you’re able to let go of something that’s very powerful but it doesn’t necessarily maintain itself it’s it’s it’s a moment that has to be kind of nurtured and we have to grow through our muscles to be able to even identify and be aware of of of of things that are are you know these this episode of violence it’s the most subtle form of violence that most people are very not even aware of and but we have to train our brain Raptor you know meditate and and and tune into our and bodied knowledge are visceral knowledge and and pick another so many different things to do in and I’m not saying that I know the way I’m exploring what you meant to Patient looks like for me I’m exploring what my sexuality is look like for me so I can begin to articulate if you relate to it cool if you don’t cool you know it’s just a part of the pleura vs. just an aspect microcosm of what of an example and I’m not trying to undermine anyone or invalidate anyone experienced different than me by just I’m just trying to lead by example I’m trying I’m trying to you know I’m I’m so concerned I was so obsessed with liberating other people and then I just got to the point where I need to liberate myself and you know I want to hear other people will actually I need to heal myself before I go out and do all these things so just take responsibility for for creating and manifesting their dreams and really trying to keep keep positive and watch listen to you know what you’re saying to yourself and think it’s very easy to get into these really negative kind of mentality is when you know what’s going on what’s going on but I really try to keep positive and and and manifesting for transformant transformation in the paradigm shift that can really nourish diversity and and respect different viewpoints and and pluralism and and sexual expression and health and wellness and liberation finding a way to Anchor this concept for so-called the layperson or if we want to stay in in folk or colloquial terms I think the way that people already have a sort of a notion of epistemology is in is in the expression breaking something down and that I heard someone say recently I was like I’m going to remember this for the rest of my life it was so it was so such an appropriate expansion of the term of someone just said talk to this person or call them or something cuz they’re going they’re going to break it all the way down and and I just want to say sofa and passion about how they were certain that it was going to be broken not just broken down and they’ll break it down for you if they’re going to break it all the way down that until you know epistemology is the theory of knowledge or the study of knowledge or the branch of philosophy about theory of knowledge or rational belief and justification I think about just yeah I mean when you are able to deconstruct and break things down you get to a point you know I deconstructed sex and sexuality and gender down to the point where I had no idea what it was because everything I Learned was question and then I got to go to space where I could create meaning for myself and if I can reconstruct it for myself and this is where we can begin to imagine what Liberation looks like and why what an empowered Viewpoint looks like and to let go of oppressive ways of knowing that are not conducive to our Liberation and happiness and yeah I did I do I think that understanding the way we know things and the way you know how we were conditioned how we are sexualization or how we come to know our our sexuality what are you know where we get our information what information we we have and know that there’s so much there’s there’s a lot that we know there’s so much more to learn there’s a lot that we don’t know there’s what we know we know and that we and then there’s a part that we know we don’t know but there’s a part that we don’t know that we don’t know that that is so much and when you know epistemology help reminded me of the parts of knowledge and sexuality that I didn’t even know that I didn’t know until we yeah I think this is I can’t I mean for the last what was it it’s only been it’s only been a couple or a few days since we happened upon each other on Twitter and and I read I take careful note of people’s Twitter descriptions because this is how some of the best conversations it happen is just what people are doing that someone is doing this I can’t believe it in and where what we’ve arrived at since just I mean the way that we’ve you had you have done packed these terms and I have been able to get some deep nourishing validation for stuff that I can’t really talk to other people about because they look at me like I have another head growing out of my neck when I say the word epistemology yeah it’s it’s overlooked in so I’m just early nourished and oh yeah that I guess it does remind me now you were you have an interesting you’re flipping the script on the term orgasm correct so I was looking at sexual response models and looking at the history of the creation of it with Masters and Johnson and Kaplan and you know all my sex geeking out and how we’re trained in terms of how we understand sexual response but it actually is the foundation of the DSM and you know when you do not hit these sexual responses In This Very linear way also the Reed model is also a non-linear model available to us I was thinking about how they’re mostly westernize and then, I came across ocean ality that talks about it as a flow as an energy and that really looking at so I went into the literature of emotionality and I found that it talks about being again as a flow and so I made a model I could share with you sometime where I kind of visualize it but it’s I called the flow of ocean alley and basically talks about a force that the the Paradigm the Creative Energy between sexuality and fertility that losing energy flow From Desire arousal copulation pleasure the filament conception birth and growth and it’s very important to say that you know it’s very pleasure the Pleasure Principle is at the heart of this creative energy that is referred to as oceans honey so it definitely has is his stemming from Yoruba cosmology and he or bypass tomorrow and metaphysics and all this but it but really talking about that actually it doesn’t have to be instead of organ what I noted is that an incentive orgasm they said fulfillment and I thought was really important when looking at using you as an expert to subjectively decide what is the feeling to you rather than did I did I meet the standard you know orgasmic you know this big euphoric when it’s so Define and you know your your engorged you know the physiological responses they can be there or they may not be or we can look at I think about model for sapiosexual Zar though those that are lovers of intelligence and can find a Radisson through the mind and I applied at plaid I like to apply the model to thinking about it in terms of China on a in a sapiosexual way in terms of like you know I may have a desire to have a conversation and then be aroused through the conversation and then the copulation maybe just having this thought you know penetrate that have a conversation penetrate my mind so that it’s expanded in a way that I’m thinking about things in a different way which is to cause an epiphany which is for me and put me zove are you for having thinking about things in a way and having now a new lands in which to be the world is very empowering and pleasurable for me and and 2 to have the filament in okay that’s fulfilling for me to have an eye deer that manifest and you know having the conception of it which would be maybe to explain explain it articulator share it with someone and have it grow into something where other people can understand and then in a way that it that it may apply I apply it to how maybe a sapiosexual might experience pleasure and how that may not be literal literally you know conception doesn’t have to be literally penis and vagina but it can be interpreted and turn I had a a mindgasm you know I had a pleasurable experience that decrease my stress and increase my connection and you know all these things that we may be benefited we can benefit from from the sex can also are many ways in which we can experience this kind of energy that doesn’t have to be literal and it doesn’t have to be linear and it doesn’t have to be every single step in if you don’t if you are not you know what if you don’t have desire before arousal then you know you can be diagnosed with all these disorder yeah it’s the mechanical if it’s causing distress then it doesn’t have to be pathologize it one of the categories of having it being an official diagnosis is it has to cause distress sounds interesting or you have there’s premature ejaculation in in gay males virtually unheard-of because that’s not what’s important to an end it may not cause the stress because if the goal was to come and they came then it’s okay you know it doesn’t have to be pathologize in a way or and I think that’s that’s probably a bad example but I’m just thinking about how there are it would be nice if we if we didn’t have to have something wrong with us and that what it is and I think about how my parents aren’t married and in America it was like oh you poor child you must be so like they were they made me feel bad about my situation I go to Jamaica and they’re like do you have parents will then you’re lucky you’re good your parents talk that’s amazing you know and then I was felt good and then I just thought about wow okay there’s definitely different ways of knowing what a problem is and a lot of how we understand problems are located in the mine and so you know typical you know therapeutic intervention is cognitive restructuring and and and reframing of our ideas to not be catastrophic to kind of begin to think of things in a way that we can feel empowered and move on with our lives in a positive manner and not have it stifle us not have problems be terrible but again it’s a lot at the importance of of being open-minded and receptive to transformation and and positive growth can really be beneficial to 22 Harmony in humanity before you said the word therapeutic I believe I was I was thinking I’m hearing you I’m hearing you develop this modality a healing modality of therapeutic epistemology you know how to develop and I think of about the you know we had to Define what is the problem you know I’m like well the problem is he was sick white Mana weapon model epistemology one way of thinking and so my solution is multi epistemic literacies thinking about things in the you know that there are multiple epistemology is available for us to kind of deal with it will and I thought about how internalized oppression in the present forces of society that I associated with stemming from colonialism and kind of that all those mentalities that create that kind of mentality can we need to heal from it we have historical trauma and we have the effects lingering in today’s society I think that racism should be a mental disorder that’s not in that’s not considered an issue a mental challenge but I think that if we begin to kind of reframe what are What are problems are then we can move into you know different solutions and I I am offering online therapy to those in Pennsylvania see a New York I’m on as well as you know I am based in New York so I do Sex Therapy but it will be great if I was able to create a healing modality and really develop nourish might might my experience and you know kind of my privilege of having been able to think about these things in it and applying it to a way that we can begin to heal and liberate people so yes absolutely yeah I hope that I hope you’ll be blessing us with a free introductory book that we can sign up to get on your mailing list and then we’ll get future updates for everything so and no more internet marketing geek stuff but yeah it’s it’s of all the people who I know are out there really a building empires of marketing their branded and trademarked healing modalities and versions of sacred sexuality instruction all these things I really would would so love to see your work be exalted in yeah TED talks and the works I think that would be great and so yeah I am definitely going to be praying for your total all these things coming to fruition and and hopefully I’m kind of seating a little bit more and support for for all that and we’ll be looking for you we can talk again and and explore maybe these specific topics and I’m hoping to get to a point with this podcast where I have a budget where I can literally assemble panels and pay people to do the panel so there’s so many things that we touch down in his conversation where I felt like if I could just call in if I had a few of my friends and colleagues and former guest on retainer somehow right now I’m that exact keyword or something and that would be super fun because the connections that I can already see between my world and your world to help facilitate this or are really giving me chills so I think this is sex such a powerful new important work and it’s a part of my calling and my purpose so I thank you for for you know having your podcast to you know I can’t have these conversations we can’t have these conversations right it’s very specific what we’re talking about and so I really appreciate any kind of opportunity to to share my specialty with good people who are who are open-minded to to it you know that’s my that’s my main audience so far that I that I like to that I that I get to be more self-expression authentic is when you know they’re there open towards empowerment and and listening to alternate perspectives so thank you so much for your time and have a wonderful night and thank you for making the time for this and looking forward to talking to you yes thank you all right have a good night sleep. Concho Park. Calm and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is to see me and improving the podcast your donations will help establish permaculture goddess temples of ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email bad at Tantra Punk. Com Thomas gay