In this episode I have the exquisite joy of talking with one of the most endearing modern tantrikas. Kai Karrel shares his cinematic story of initiation into traditional authentic tantric practice in India as a teenager. We then discuss his ego-dissolving and heart melting practice of leading puja rituals for modern seekers, followed by a critical exploration of masculinity, sexual healing, and shamanism.
Please access Kai’s offerings by visiting his website:
Kai Karrel is writer, a poet, a mystic and a spiritual adventurer. He is a mystical traveler devoted to the exploration of the unknowable. He travels among native traditions and ancient cultures. In a way he considers himself a traditional light warrior, using the lighter side of his teaching to inspire spiritual growth and self-love. After over 20 years of deep study and devotion to walking a spiritual path, living in ashrams and learning from numerous teachers and guides, the emerging pattern that Kai has devoted his life to sharing, is that truth is a pathless land and that a true mystical experience lies in full acceptance and radical self inquiry. His teachings reflect a deep commitment to freedom and truth, the search for one single experience – falling in love with one’s self.
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Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello there by lovense welcome to time for fun podcast episode number 58 I am doing interview with Kai Corral today and I’ll just a little bit I got to experience his goddess invocation goddess Federation weather in La a while back and I had heard about his work from the Laurie handlers Country Cafe podcast in was so intrigued because I felt like I’d really wanted to experience more authentic lineage based Puja ritual after so many kind of fun just you know what I just said it politely just kind of the more Neo Tantra experiences that we’re lacking that sensor a real identity and so to experience the goddess adoration project and all its glory and get the full background of the story behind it is just the most hurting melting experience ever and I just been it’s got to be the next you know High School prom evolve into this experience so without further Ado Kai would you please tell us your beautiful spiritual by story adventure and give us lots of details about your initiation in India please thank you for inviting me and not having me sockets I’m you know it’s funny because I’ve LEDs I don’t know maybe four hundred and something of these puchis all over the over the world even in Bernie and I told the story almost every single time and it’s so for me I always think maybe maybe you know it’s enough I don’t have to tell the story again or if I always think it’s kind of long you’ll see so I always wonder but then people like you like no I like this is such a good story tall order but you know what I just before I go into that I just want to say that countries you know has been defined in so many different ways and there’s so many teachers there so many past or so many books in scripture is in definitely in the west most of us to relate the word Tantra to sexuality in the police into miss your relationships and when I started my journey which is 20 plus something years ago I there were not so many books about that or else I was in Israel israeli-born it wasn’t you know you wouldn’t be able to just Google it or it wasn’t something so common and I actually came to Tantra for my Buddhist perspective what is Tantra and the different different daily practices and before that also I was practicing Hari Krishna help for a short. Of time but don’t know what I want to say or was important in you know when when today people ask me what is my opinion and I can’t expand the way I can offer offer what I do to not be so Tantra focus on specific and mostly because of the fact that I feel for most people what they want when they hear the word tundra is more sick sexual education for me if you ask me I have to Define clench I would say that it’s a path for falling in love with yourself that’s first and foremost an interesting Lee enough in the exact same moment that you fall in love with yourself you realize that you have fallen in love with divinity and you have fall in love with everyone around you that are there that quality in you. Just changed so when I started my journey I have actually I ate a friend of mine told me about this place and basically told me that it’s a very strict Tantra experience so I was very intrigued went to see the I talked to a couple people that were there and realize that I need to wait a couple more months until they will have a balance between men and women and by the way I feel free to stop me and ask for a drone whatever flavors and then eventually I got to I got to the to the ashram in after waiting a little bit so we started the process now they waited until there is a equal number of men and women and I think we were 12 altogether and just as a side note important to note that all teachers in specifically. Place for women there were a couple of minutes were more like janitors and cleaners and you know technical people but the teacher is holding of their lineage and holding of wisdom or women and we started with an initiation and opening ceremony where men were sitting in one side women were sitting on the other side and the asked that there is it’s cold in selection process so the teachers did the keys which the word that he needs her in its original form is Sky Dancer or or a deeper meaning to bring Heaven to Earth and Earth to heaven so the teachers are bikinis came in and I think there were 16 maybe and they were all all beautifully dressed with sarees and lots of jewelry really really beautiful and I was there when I was I think 17 or a little bit before even so obviously and I was a kid. Agent looking for the most attractive one because I want you know I’m hoping that she’ll be my teacher and train me in and then one of them comes up and she says she turns to this old lady that was sitting in the back of the room that I haven’t even noticed before and she says Sharma you are the eldest so you have the first thing and she was sitting there and she was knitting or doing something with her hands and she just put it down and she walked straight at me and she said him and went back to the back of the room and I’m like oh my God I was so disappointed and I can’t believe it. I didn’t even see her and then they kept on selecting everyone so the first stage is that half of the bikinis select the men that they want to work with and then the same one is supposed to select the woman that she was going to be your practice partner for the rest of the of the time so I guess they say the same thing shark when you have you know you’re the eldest you have first pick so I’m looking around and you know have you ever had that you left a walk in an elevator or Sia someone that you are so attracted to that they’re so beautiful that you just kind of weird you don’t know really eat with your jaw drops and you don’t really know what to say so there was one girl like that in the room and I was like please please I was kind of praying to God and God gave me. So please please give me this and Sharma walk straight to that girl and she says her I couldn’t believe it I’m like yeah thank God it’s like finally I’m so happy and then after the whole selection process is over they say a few more Montrose and there’s a little bit a little bit more explanation but the main thing that was explained to us is that the only person that we actually don’t get to practice with a tall is the person that was selected for us at the only interaction with that person is the final final test stock was so devastated collected this is a joke that you can be so from that moment on basically we were taught how to first of all there is a lot of scripture study that’s a very big part a lot of muncher recitation a lot of different scriptures in a lot of different ceremonies but in terms of relating between men and women there’s really a vast you know body of knowledge that you’re learning about the other gender and how to relate to them in different forms to say that this is not necessarily an erotic or a romantic relationship to my mail to a woman but in all forms so did they teach you how to interact with your mom with your girlfriend with your grandma with you know in any basically any form of male-female interaction so the majority of the practices are divided into erotic and non-erotic and it’s amazing because really kind of has researched every type of interaction or or verbal connection to possibly can be an example of the few things that we’ve been learning how to feed a woman how to dress a woman how to bathe a woman how to draw a woman after bathing at all these forms has their erotica non-erotic forms for example example that they often give us about feeding that you can feed a person sitting in front of you erotic lien on erotically so for example and you know you don’t see me right now let’s all try to describe shirtless they were at a sushi restaurant if I want to see the person in front of my grandma which means if the nun erotic connection I’m going to take the sushi take the Chopstick and lifted straight up and put it into her mouth that’s a non-erotic feeding and if I want to feed my wife my partner I’m going to take the same Chopsticks lift the sushi in just before coming to her mouth I will turn it a hundred and eighty degrees and put it in her into her mouth so you that’s what how why is this erotic they’re both eventually getting the same place the one with the twist interesting enough when I signal that or the subconscious of the person in front I’m doing the string motion depressant person in front of me is going to slightly tilt their head which If you experience. Barfield what happens in the body there’s this openness to happens with it I would use it with submission but not in a negative connotation you’re not very beautiful open receptive kind of interaction so throughout the year we would learn this but I want to add one very important part in that is Sharma that the person that I got to study with is probably one of the Nina and smiling unfriendly teachers I’ve ever had and I just didn’t understand why she hates me so much and she would constantly tell me you should leave this is not for you just just give up now what would happen if we learn something and I would see our most interesting to say that I would see other people in the ashram and they would be walking hand-in-hand with their dakini in if they would make a mistake that there would you say no no no you just say it like that or you arrange the ceremony like this and she doesn’t tell me what was wrong how to fix it nothing just got close to the end we holds with gold a chamarra tomorrow is at tail of a monkey on a metal stick and you go above your head and cannot whiskey a bit of are the person in front of you cuz there’s a certain angle that you’re supposed to do that with your wrists I think the day she taught me how to do this so she shows me once and like you know so fast like I can’t even understand what you just did and then tells me now you so I take it and I do it but I do it’s wrong and I kept on going I don’t know maybe for two hours in my arms worth her the issues not telling me how to fix that you just and it drove me crazy it drove me crazy you know I have to say almost left like three or four times that I just felt you know this ridiculous she’s not she just hates me and I don’t understand what I did wrong why am I being punished like this but the interesting thing is was it I kept asking her by the way this whole experience teaches you how to hold pooches when specifically a goddess pujan that’s what you experience with me which is a adoration to women adoration actually to the opposite and actually there are Hindus listening to this podcast they probably they’re very familiar with poo just that you do to JT’s to Ganesh to to Lakshmi and it’s interesting because actually they’re they’re quite many that know these that God has put us in touch with experience but often they don’t really so what it is it the exact same adoration serve service or ceremony for Pooja that we do in India for the date he’s just instead of a statute we have a real life person sitting in front of us so one of the things that they kept asking for his charmant when will I be ready how do I know that I’m ready when she would always say the same thing when you look at your partner and see God and I just said I don’t think that’s ever going to happen it’s just you know I don’t feel it so why are you here or just leave you know what country is about. If you’re not stuck. You’re not not what you’re after just not going to happen leave and I was so stubborn you know what if this is the last thing I do I will prove this to this woman that I can actually do it so process kept on going and then finally and I’m I’m skipping a lot of the teachings of course there is you know so many different things that we’ve learned throughout that time but eventually you get to a point where she comes to me one day and she says okay tomorrow morning you were going to perform the morning ritual that leads to do your final test the goddess Pooja and I was so shocking like what really and actually is a funny thing is that I said it to her I said I’m not ready so then what you mean you’re not there I don’t think I can see God in the person in front of me and she said well if you’re right I don’t care what you think I’m not it’s not that I’m not asking you if you want to do it this happening tomorrow morning so what happens if the first stage of the ceremony and we don’t do it until I got to squeeze you that they facilitate but India in the first process is called the bathing ceremony and you take the first into the river and you need to bathe them and they’re wearing very sick sorry so they’re not naked and your bathing them in think 8 or 12 different liquids there is yogurt honey orange juice apple juice coconut water a few different things and each time you’re there so many mattress that you say in any cover them with the strength liquid and then you take that you how you were holding this huge konshen you taking the liquid and covering them and then water and washing it off and then honey which took forever and then washing it off there’s a whole process of adoring the person in front of you is if there are God and relating to that and of course every every one of these elements have its meaning and very special invocation that while this is happening both of the Kings the king of that was teaching me in a dakini The Toasted teaching her are sitting at the bank of the river looking at me do this and looking for me to make mistakes is wrong and I needed to stop I’ll say stop but if I say if you did a mistake with you should continue but she treated me like a pavlovian dog you know it’s kind of like okay I hear that sound in a stop so that alone was really really challenging for me because of course she did it there were like three moves but anyway I’m really nervous these two women or kind of needing to give me the okay but I also have to save the first time since I didn’t tell you earlier than actually doing this with that incredibly beautiful woman and she’s in the water in I first signed up and she’s smiling she’s gorgeous and this whole experience in and it it was the feeling was a time you know what the clumsy guy in the water in the three women are just making fun of me so that’s completed in an hour and a half and then the next day she puts her foot on a rock and you Tire anklet imagine my hands are filled with honey and yogurt and all the different things so to put you know even regularly just do you know you by your girlfriend anklet or a bracelet she asked you to put it on and it’s like this tiny little thing that you need to open a time like with all my hands filled with liquids and trying to do that and they’re just laughing at me so again there is a mantra for that you put that one and then the bracelet and then I think that’s a beautiful things actually usually put on weddings because one of the ideas of the wedding between the Divine masculine and divine feminine. Between the participants but the symbology behind it and so that is complete a few closing Montrose and then she walks away so I go to Sharman basically she needs to tell me if I passed or not and interesting lie when the other the king and the woman were walking away I could see that the other the king is very serious and her face I’m like oh no I probably failed and then I look to Charmaine she looks at me and she never smile so she she wouldn’t you know her face didn’t really changed but she says let’s chance to Durga and I’m sitting there like tell me if I passed or not I’m already so nervous and after I know maybe 15 minutes of chanting says okay go take a shower and prepare and I prepare for what so what do you need for watch for the guy but you know okay so excited running to the house and that also means not only that they need to take a shower and prepare and change what I’m wearing but also go to the temple and prepare the actual Pooja get the flowers in different items that are on a plate when they’re official yeah I remember you mentioned this at one point in the when you’re telling a story that you said something about like you said like it’s time we take 5 showers with you cuz you just mention the shower if I didn’t ask you then what exactly that meant but it was I was curious so I just taking a shower the one of the things that this in. Specific from a direct I’ve seen you in a few different places they idea that you take five different showers throughout the day we’re presenting a different different expressions of difference demigods hygiene and mental physical and emotional cleanliness is very very important part of the practice so you kind of divide your day in terms of what you were doing in the practices to which shower of the day that is I think after I finished was time for a second so I run I prepare the the temple everything everything is ready and looks good and I sit there and await Ivan I’m waiting for them in at the same time that I had mine there was another guy that’s actually a Hindi guy Hindu guy that had his centrifuge kind of test the same time so he brought his whole family and I’m sitting there waiting and invited by the way I’ll just mention that’s my parents throughout my whole process and I actually after that are from a joint another option for 13 and 1/2 years throughout my entire Journey my parents were not very supportive of my spiritual journey I was supposed to be a web developer where a lawyer Reno something like that so I was kind of and I’m sitting there looking at the plate and then suddenly Sharma comes in and the other The Keeney into my my partner came in and all all three of them looked incredibly beautiful I was really really amazed and my partner comes and she’s incredibly beautiful red sorry she was just stunning like I couldn’t believe but I have to say one thing before I went into this whole Pooja that night I had a really really sad feeling because I knew that I’m going to sit in front of my partner and I’m not going to see God I in a way I felt that I feel that that’s what I was there for and what I was taught did you know that the Perfection within deal with Tantra is it’s not going to happen I am just a regular guy sitting in front of a very attractive woman I see a very attractive woman I feel my my cash in my excitement no I don’t really feel Divinity where she got in that experience so I remember that the fourth shower that they took before coming and I really thought to myself wow Sharma finally found a way to get rid of me so you know she’ll do the thing I’ll pass and then I leave but it didn’t work and I was really really sad it was actually went into this whole experience excited but also mostly depressed and sad that’s okay I’m this is going to be over and I blew it so I sit there and then my partner sitting in front of me and I look at that played when they realized that I forgot the incense I had everything else that fire the conscious to water everything was there chocolate but I missed the instance so what I’m supposed to do is to go to Sharm until I’m sorry making a mistake but I saw that they fell do that you’ll probably tell me okay so let’s start all over tomorrow and basically it blew it blew it so I’m looking around and I knew that I can ask from the Hindi because he is not going to help me but I was looking around and finally a thought I saw that there’s a pack of incense on the main altar I think to myself how can I steal this instance and have it for me without without getting caught because you know you’re probably like it’s the worst Karma you can possibly happen and then the rest in that is that if I get caught by her that’s even worse so I had this lady I’m going to go to the Altar and I’m going to like make the show that’s like I’m the most emotional person in the world and just fell down on the floor and stand up and down down and I did that for like 10 minutes and I was all sweating and I saw Sharma Luke against me in the first like 3 minutes like what is he doing but you know they can tell you anything lotion to God in the floor frame so I did that for like 10 minutes and also the other guys waiting so everyone is like his whole family is happening so finally left over so I go back to my seat and put it down kind of Hope okay no one noticed actually did Hindi guy notice and he’s like looks looks like oh my God. Anyways same thing Sharma tells me if I go you continue only if I say stop you stop now what’s my partner were sitting in front of me is West I can’t even tell you my heart’s was literally outside of my body like pounding I was so excited I was so thrilled but I did not see God I saw an incredibly attractive woman that I was so attracted to him so happy and she’s smiling and and then we start the ceremony and I’m saying the mantras and I do actually almost everything was really really you know according to the book perfect and the incense and fire in tears and watering the same process that you you’ve experienced Hindi I finished like in 10 minutes I kept on going cuz and everything took me a little longer and then the last and the last thing as you get them a gift and do they give you a gift and then blew the Conch to ceremonies over and she walked away and then again I go to Sharma and well did I pass last chance is Oregon so another 50 minutes of like nerve-racking and I’m sitting there but in my mind I keep thinking while she’s just you know even if I did pass I actually failed and I really felt so sad I’m going to go out I felt spiritually like a complete failure and also they waited all this time because you know okay so I learned all of this but nothing real like nothing of substance actually came out of this practice so shatter with 15 minutes of chanting she says okay go take your last shower and go to visit her in her room we’re basically you know we are adults we can do whatever we want some you know again excited but also very sad so I go I actually I said I said Sharma but I feel they didn’t really see God she said I don’t care you have to do what I’m telling you so go now so I went I change my clothes I was so sweaty took a shower and went knocked at the door and the first time actually when I knocked at the door and she said come in at the first time I heard her voice so that the entire year I was strictly supposed to stay away from her so I walk in and she’s sitting there on her bed and she wore this incredibly beautiful yellow dress and I sat next to her and we held hands and we just looked into each other’s eyes for I can’t even tell you how long but something very peculiar happened in that moment I went in knowing that I’m going to see the same person that’s woman that I’ve been practicing with and as I was sitting there I looked into her face and I saw God and everything changed and interesting thing happen is if we both fell asleep you probably ideas for I don’t know how long we didn’t say a word we both fell asleep woke up in the morning with a little bit and then we together we went to breakfast and Sharma was over you there and she looks at my face and I didn’t say a word and it’s the first time that she actually laughed out loud at you said you see I knew it’s going to work and I was so blown away because it was not expected this was not so not what I thought was going to happen and then we were there for a couple of months doing a few more practices and actually think of how many people ask me but we’re all the sexual practices and all that so when I asked my bikini when asked, what about the physical things in there you know sexual practices in Kamasutra I know that she said well if you do all the practices that they told you if you focus on communication creativity if you focus on listening you do the if you follow the art of adoration like you were thoughts and sexual just work perfectly a very different perspective now obviously know a part of the teaching and country is is different sexual connective and intimacy collection practices but it’s important for me to say that when you study classic country do you’ll realize that the sexuality piece of something like 10% for me to tell you that when you take your car to the garage car fixing is all about changing the tires you laugh at me because there’s so many other things that need to be fixed in a car it’s for the car to move it’s not just the tire yourself other things so that’s the ratio sex is an important piece of course to intimacy and relationships but it’s only a piece there so many other things have to fall into place anyways after after that those couple few more months we had to do was called the closing ceremony the point where I