TRIGGER WARNING: This episode contains discussion of sexual abuse and healing.
This is a split release with Tom Denney of Esoteric Origins podcast. Tom’s art reflects a clear lens into astral ecology. We discuss how his art is helping to depict the unseen world so we can better understand the mechanics of shamanic healing. We discuss my shamanic initiation, soul retrieval, and practice of psychedelic goddess worship.
Esoteric Origins Podcast
Tom Denney’s Art
AI Generated Transcription:
(Want to help with corrections? Please contact me to learn about rewards for your efforts!)
Tantra Punk your guide to sexual Liberation healing and empowerment as a certified Tantra counselor and certified permaculture designer I’m here to help you grow spiritually sexually and ecologically my online and in-person counseling sessions and training programs are price to fit any budget I’m looking forward to helping you design and ever more Divine Life Path please send me an email to Ben at Tantra Punk. Com and our journey together will begin hello dear Beloved School, Township Punk podcast episode number 27 this is a split release podcast with Tom Denney of esoteric Origins podcast and we talked all about astral ecology hope you enjoyed Namaste alright well this is esoteric Origins and I am Tom Denny and I am accompanied by my wonderful gas today then Axiom then welcome to my podcast thank you very much and I’m to both now there’s a very specific reason why you wanted to come over today and talk to me because you have a very big and important story to tell but let me just my perspective on you as being when I first moved out to LA as we were just discussing it’s been about a decade now I’m about to mm and I met here and we were just figuring out that like in fact it was the Myspace days and it must have been within the first week of me moving here because I had to go to my roommate and use his computer to log on the Myspace and that’s when you messaged me and invited me out to the Troubadour and that was the first time I’ve been to the Troubadour and and got introduced to the LA grindcore Punk scene and from there you are also doing punk rock gardening in Long Beach and you also invited me down there and it was all totally new to me at that time the LA Punk experience is a lot different than Chicago I think it is deeper and more intrinsic and out here on the West Coast I find the punks are a lot more conscientious about recycling planting trees and especially right conscious music and I felt like at the time you were at the Forefront of that because you are actually leading a youth organization in Long Beach that was focused on Recycling and on planting organic foods in on teaching the kids how to garden and I thought that was really awesome so initially even before then that was your in that band they were Native Americans in the songs were about Native rights in such a resistant culture but before that you have gained a level of infamy with Nexium what what’s the history of Axiom because I hadn’t heard from other people that you know it’s weird artistic ramblings of pictures of you all distorted in black and white with with dreads and patches holding dreads where all that came from 14-15 year was that yeah put out a few albums did a bit of touring and headed to a kind of ill fated tragic break up over it’s a long story I’ll spare the details but just some samba Trail happen that was only unforgivable or unexcusable and we had to we had to sweat right and we recorded a full-length album we had to sweet had this put up around that time so we had to read it to we had to let her vocalist go but we recorded it a whole album worth of instruments and it’s finally coming out now so there’s like a fifteen-year-old varied album that we finally got some vocals on it’s about to be released now it seems easier than back then to find this because it’s on YouTube and it’s actually really great crossed music so what was your mindset back then when you were recording and running around and how did you make the journey from that kid to where you are now it was cool cuz a lot of us were heavily involved in local Progressive activist causes and movements and stuff so we’re trying to use it as a tool to raise Consciousness and get punks out the protest involved in DIY projects and stuff so babies in your life so I feel like we were we were running that energy of extreme Utopia and idealism and patching and fire for change and you know as you kind of throw yourself against the system and usually get chewed up and spit out you know after a while and it’s easy for people to burn out and get real nihilistic and just get really over drug downloader you know drinking you know constantly just to numb the pain cuz once you get disillusioned it’s kind of like in The Matrix you know you sometimes you want to go back to ignorance but you can’t hear you sort of twist on so now I feel like I’ve kind of found a more spiritual path of resistance and I feel like there’s more leverage on on the invisible dimensions of reality than there are in the visible Dimensions that are highly controlled by you know different forms of authoritarian systems in agencies and whatnot so I kind of felt after a number of years of fighting on the surface of reality and having a beer a futile because of a mechanical advantage of force on the physical plane that that that the the owners you know the story of the power elite and all of their all of their henchmen you know all of that Empire all the structures of Empire I really impermeable you know toe-to-toe but more malleable astral dimensions of reality there’s a lot more and bigger and more powerful spiritual allies that letter I think starting to come to this planet more and more to help dislodge the disinfection demonic infection that is represented in building empires of male ego that the physical dimension of the people who are in charge of that Empire that you’re talking about the system that it’s in place they’re actually doing rituals themselves and even on the most simplistic like the local law enforcement who are Freemasons where the locals there in the base doing rituals and stumbling entities and looking into the ancient books summoning demons essentially they look up to Solomon and Solomon was renowned for being a necromancer in in in a demon Summoner and that was how the Temple of Israel was supposedly built by enslaved entities on this other leveling and wouldn’t you say that that is the symbol of the pyramid at the eye in the pyramid that there using on everything I personally am try to think like an anthropologist about about all the stuff in the sensitive of them there’s try to keeping an open-ended perspective on things and in so I’m just kind of dancing around committing to be on the same as a fact I try to speak in more inquisitive terms about about these more esoteric subjects you know someone asked me do I what do I think about or do I believe in this or that specific sort of conclusion about about symbols and stuff I’m going to say that as far as I’m concerned if you’re not psychedelic goddess worship and then there’s everything else that isn’t that is mostly Empire because shamanic cultures that honor the Earth and that use Sacramento to be connected to that the consciousness of the planet the feminine life-giving Consciousness the planet whether they ingesting the sacraments or their entering Altered States by some other means they’re essentially protecting and safeguarding their cultures and their there they’re their minds and there he goes from that looming threat of sort of hyper-masculine greedy territorial violent aggressive manipulative Empire Building impulse and so whatever it is if it’s not second of a goddess worship I don’t want anything to do with it that’s interesting as to why you you gravitate towards my art my art that first approached me and in fact one of the pieces that you were talking about was and I didn’t really happen to like that term psychedelic got us to all I knew was that I wanted to draw a very beautiful women surrounded by like centipedes and and fighting off what look like mosquito larvae and stuff like that new is all very I’m not sure where it came from other than to say my own psychedelic like I’ve maybe John deep psychedelics maybe a dozen to 20 times ever but I can’t ever say that like a face-to-face with any of these entities that I’m drawing and I’m not really sure where they’re coming from but you seem to see something totally deeper and I want you to tell me what what it is that you see when we’re talking about this story of your artwork and I feel like what you are transmitting troops from your third eye perspective in natural ability to be an antenna for this some sort of multidimensional perspective on what’s actually happening what was totally invisible to most non artist in non psychedelic explorers are Psychonauts the second is the Psychonauts who maybe don’t have the artistic ability to convey that through drying and then it’s the artist who are the Visionary artists whether whether they’re consuming sacraments or not with the ability to download and and sort of Sharon demonstrate what what the true what I mean I want to use the word Astro ecology and if we if we know as much about Astro Astro ecology as we do about the first lead you know the logical by lighter biological to call on this playing notes of the reality of the Earth then we’re going to make wiser decisions about that you’re helping to bring forth so I just want to thank you for that and I feel like we’re on almost a completely parallel journey of Discovery because every time I have a new psychedelic Revolution I look at your website and you’d like to pick did it already today I was sharing your heart with someone that’s what I just experienced enough and I see for me it’s all just coming from the imagination however a lot of the stuff I do I do really late like right before bed I have an exercise where and when I’m so exhausted I’m ready to hit the pillow I think if I just draw at least two things and then the next morning I’m like these things and it’s a great way to get cool imagery and so for me it’s all just like stuff that’s coming do you know I don’t know where I’m just so I don’t mind it being that kind of Channel the astral realm is that place that you go to when you’re dreaming or is it starting to be okay and okay so I’m trying to articulate what what I believe is a lot of problems with people in their psychosis is actually a parasitic thought beans and I guess a lot of this comes from my research into Hindu philosophy where they talk about these entities that would descend upon people who are sad or depressed and not the whole idea that these entities are feeding off of negative energy and they’re feeding off of sadness the feeding off of anger and they’re feeding off of depression I find completely terrifying more terrifying then inverting a Christian cross as far as like if you want to create some really like cuz I know I grew up on heavy metal and like you know Tron you know what’s even more intense is showing someone that’s actually possessed of these entities who are just an end like any parasite it will feed the I need for that food source and if it’s a spot form and you’re possessed with one of these entities it’s going to feed you negative thoughts that keep you in that state of depression vs. humans have this ability to choose their state of mind and choose how they feel about things and I think a lot of the battle against depression which I feel depression is more of an enemy to modern humans then anyone wants to admit discuss or even approach and I think that a lot of work can be done by purging yourself of these you know and you can call it will it’s just a negative thought for more you could say well it’s in a strobing or you can say you know pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just stop choosing to be sad or stop letting. affect you and once I started messing around with those ideas examples of people who kept coming into my life to show me like Lamas this person if anyone is suffering from this idea it’s clearly this person who like lashes out and will manipulate or you know any of variety of ways in and who idea that there is energy vampirism that that’s exactly what’s happening and you can even feel it when you say on something’s come over me and you just get laid in with this depression that you can even like why am I depressed the sun is out so you know there’s it’s almost intangible and I find myself into battle with that often enough in and so that way I kind of work it out through my artwork and but to hear you validated and say that this is a vision into a real place in and real things that are going on is kind of mind-blowing even from me well you have it depicted on the same vibration of of bringing in the understanding of what’s going on. It’s not a Time it’s not just imagination cartoon mythology you know it’s safe to reality and in my personal experience you know what’s right I’ll try I’ll try to be careful not to make any projections or extrapolate me on my personal experience but it’s me to do the research to try to understand it and to look at different modern scientific and ancient shamanic and esoteric epistemology is really to understand that this is an actual unexplored science is afraid it’s completely afraid of the implications of the can of worms the Pandora’s box of acknowledge say hello world it’s the idea that you can torture animals and have them scream and that be like machines I mean if the death of nature than the removal of spirit from nature is what does Justified the mechanical industrial insulation of all forms of life so to have to be held accountable to St Ann’s on a non-viable level of awareness of this this reality and 54 especially in the way Karma works I mean yeah after I mean the revolution will be a psychedelic Revolution will reveal the reality that what the what do you know the concept of Karma are psyched if you believe that this system is is actually at Play What Goes Around Comes Around you know if she if you if you believe that hopefully you’ll the way you act towards life on Earth and other people on yourself but if you don’t believe that for The Butchers butcher shop they say it’s it gets easier as you go on like the first couple kills might be difficult but eventually you get used to it so you think maybe as someone is doing that do you know torturing animals for the a lot of people benefit from the proteins but the way they do it is actually horrific and the point being that if your continuously doing that do you think it weakens your aura so that entities that feed off of your perversion of this life cycle feed off of that I have observed I’ll try to, and then I’ll see if you want to have a sequential just hang out in staxel events that have given this herd of life change direction in life I’ll say yes absolutely hell growing off of each one of our Energy Systems than you can measure it’s it’s it’s it’s what I am we think of ourselves in the modern scientific medical Anatomy through production in view of the scope of our beings we just be ourselves is like one person walk around if I didn’t if I didn’t you know axe murder somebody today then I’m you know doing all right or whatever but really if you’re sitting all day resenting someone or being jealous of someone or hating someone or stalking someone or whatever you’re doing the waters and you’re going to draw more of the dark entities into your energy field because of what your emanating or what you’re exerting into the invisible space of the astral plane where you can see the Laurel at the lower astral plane why exactly if you do if you’re chronically unconsciously being depressed or being in any way in our thinking harmful or vaping harmful you know there’s a thought do you even and an action in speech you know it’s serious speech and thought and action those of your dimensions of influence of things and energies around you so taking responsibility for those levels and that’s what most of the mystical Traditions are about purifying that so that you can be more of a net producer of positive light energy that’s going to disinfect and create safety and protection around you and your family and your loved ones in the community and you should be practicing law to instead of helping feelings thoughts are are are very important in the waters that were dwelling in that we don’t even realize that we were going through swamps where is like in the real life you know that you shouldn’t go through a swamp because there’s leeches mosquitoes ticks and alligators and for all types of things that you know like to feed off of your your blood and which is Your Life Source but what we would be horrified to take an account is that we’re walking in that daily with unseen elements that are looking to break into our Oreck egg and feed of off of our Essence not just blood related but energy what should Life Source which might even be more important Ray or more expensive than you know if your mind is covered with sores that are infected you know the density of the ecology around what you’re bleeding out and the infection of those psychics or is basically creating a whole you know he’s walking around with like a planet as hell that they are responsible for giving life to its parasitically jacked into and like you said the thought-form entities their jacked into the nervous system and they’re like spammers are hackers and they can give you impulses they can give you 4 version so you can run you and manipulate you and I’ll be the ultimate form of possession is to be completely hollowed out and completely blacked out and to be just a vessel of the the Ellis will that you can imagine and there’s plenty of that stuff opening more rapidly now in the modern society where people are just so completely deformed and fractured that there’s really nothing of of of a of a moral fiber less than amount you say wall that person Solace and you almost say it jokingly like you would have bought a a terrible boss or a teacher or an IRS agent you like, totally soulless so what you’re suggesting is that the human body is just like a computer that can get installed with spyware and and and viruses that are spamming information or allowing outside sources into your home computer which everyone can understand but you’re suggesting that our minds work this way to support their money’s worth honor the directions you call in the ancestors you call in your allies and you create sacred and safe spaces for ritual healing you know that’s really yeah there’s there’s two to turn your back on a spirit world is is really not to your peril mean that’s what the modern world is all. Just ignore the karmic consequences of endless consumption of endless pollution of endless ego gratification and sense gratification that is like out of balance with spiritual practice and charity and giving and generosity the virtues of compassion and when you watch TV it seems like you know the the the people who are making commercials in horror profiting would profit even more from you keeping shut down like that and just vying the next cheeseburger and throwing away your old phone and getting a new one and and staying in this and it seems beneficial to to these hackers you know firewall worms Steven kallman worms in the computer tech world so it seems like we’re walking through this you know where everything is the trying to keep you shut down and and use it as a simple vessel just to shut off your individuality in your creativity what is like you know a lot of what television is is getting you to shut down your imagination and like let me tell you a story don’t think you know MN so many people are obsessed with this while I can’t wait to go home and watch my shows so my programming and so that they don’t have to think and they don’t have to use their own imagination and I think when you are tapping into your imagination which I’ve had the benefit of doing creating a career out of it so that I’m constantly in order to pay my bills I’m dipping into these deep creative Realms which brings me to the same conclusion that you’re talking about it’s all in the movie they lose the sci-fi film from the 80s where they replace those glasses if they use as a metaphor for what I call what I would call like activating the pineal gland you’re able to see is the true degree to which an individual has been invested and whether or not like if you if you consider the analogy of those glasses and they lived to actually be the Psychedelic experience or the use of psilocybin mushrooms for example to activate the third eye that gives you that Periscope you’re physically a periscope into the astral plane and it has been systematically sort of through conditioning through just even the process of being told that your imaginary friends aren’t real or whatever the things that just closed down the exits to the imaginal realm as adults living Mars Society were so big so rigid and so closed off that we don’t use it or you lose it basically use it or lose it so that’s a few tanglez land in the third eye perspective which is you know that every do with the Red Dot on their forehead that’s remember I mean I’m going to be cautious how I speak about a religion that’s not a mistake and what they described as species of demons to fight back and protect you no Humanity in the earth and the beauty of creation you know by the gods and goddesses are airplanes you know they’re observing this sick infection of the planet and the scriptures Psychonauts who word performing you know sexual yoga and an ascending through their nervous systems and through their their chakra systems in working with the Kundalini as it as a medical force it snows it’s no coincidence that the symbol TC on ambulances and rising up real medicine real medicine taking a revolutionary and activist approach to the situation very much like borrowing from the geology of radical leftist critique of industrial capitalism and the spiritual ecology or the Astro ecology where they’re looking at like enter dimensionality in MN under meetings that were kind of demonstrators are depicted as like a similar to these occult Lodge meetings what’s a exploitation of humans and I find priest he couldn’t see the real world but he could see them standing that were talking about now and when did that shift happen and yeah what’s that whole story painful but I spent a lot of time practicing this so I’m going to I’m going to stay where I can speak very clinically about it so you don’t please don’t worry about my you no sense of personal disclosure and I feel like the my allies in the spirit world has have prepared me to to put this stuff on record note 4 for this way really for the first time that we set it up and establish this this discourse very well already so they do this this could now start to make sense to people and I will make this is this is how I arrived there personally and because you’re the artist of my dreams you know who I would want to manifest the ability for you to be able to depict these these pivotal experiences in my life so that other people can avoid the pitfalls you know this is like you know I had to I had to send into the hotel rooms in N Go in shamanic journeys to to pull back in to come back with the understanding so you know it is his fault but it’s not in vain and and I feel like it needs to be told and depicted to prevent future misadventure into the dark Realms you know that’s that’s what that’s what my goal is by sharing this so I’m just going to really not put a lot of analysis into it and not really put a lot of it’s like I’m higher level thinking into it and just try to stick to the facts and the actual depiction of the scenarios as as they happen and then we can you can kind of ask me more more higher-level thought questions about it later so I’m so here’s the first scene let’s say that to pull it together I’m 13 years old I’m a street on living on a skateboard addicted to intravenous methamphetamine and my brothers have peer pressured me to start turning tricks to get drug money for a little Street try and Brotherhood and you know I hit it. I did not know what I was getting into I had no spiritual consciousness or training I was letting you know I had some interest in psychedelic Shamanism and I was actually not wanting to get swallowed into into the hell Realms I was seeking the mushroom there that the acid pod do the Psychedelic shamanism let me say this experience of the spirit world that you would get from Amor Amor maybe not asking but at least a plant-based hallucinogens as what should I take to relieve tension being on the street was too exposed to get away from the last key home look like that I hadn’t to find tribe and I found punk rock and so I found you know family in that where I didn’t have it at home and also started to break down the Illusions and of the American dream and start to develop a radical Consciousness but also had the desire to to explore the spirit world and to find the source and to find the ancestors into feel the Beauty and the and the love that is one of the Allies in the spirit world that will not heal Austin want to give us you know infinite love and power to to heal the planet so that was my intention was to go there but it was derailed and sucked into the Dark Realm of meth prostitution prostitution in San Francisco as a thirteen-year-old because of being screwed into what was the dominant drug on the street you know they are punks they were Agro they were violent you know and and it wasn’t just the booze you know whose it was and it was a real misadventure that I strongly discourage anyone from Filipino from continuing or starting on the path of using those drugs and and here’s why and then this is where we get into like something that would you know pop out of one of your paintings and I don’t think you know this is this is this it it’s it’s painful and grotesque but it is part of what we have to own about what’s happening on the earth and it affects all sex workers and all you know models and anyone who’s being used it a piece of me for sexual gratification by anybody you know if so so here’s the the nuts and bolts my soul was shattered after ordering multiple days and maybe weeks of basically being brainwashed in in and raped by demons you know inside and out to being drugged unconscious and basically made you know into a sort of Satanic ritual abuse object of of extreme these were just John to or picking you up picking up a 13 year old boy in San Francisco Giants and some of them were very like just sort of nerdy guys who probably didn’t get laid in high school and now they’ve sort of falling into a trap of this and this sum you know Darkside activity but they weren’t dark Lords of the Underworld who were the you know manipulating children on the street to be in there Cults and do whatever for them right they were just like normal professional people who had this dark side Shadow nightlife that they would go down in an indulgent but what I’m talking about in this scene let’s say is you know very intentional very highly demonic sort of high-ranking demonic infested possessed men who were like actually intelligently using black magic sorcery to to to rip open you know young and I was a virgin at the time so you know my soul was shattered before I even had made love to a woman when should have been my preference from an astro perspective of being lap for Days Inn in sort of melting in to the other side that these demonic possessed men were actually not just having their way with me you know sexually for their own sort of getting off purposes but they’re possessing demonic entities were actually open the chakras protected web and and their larvae into my energy. And this was the act of infestation you know of my energy system and is almost as a form of like black sex Magik surgery of them Plantation and am I saw translucent spiders come down from the walls and I do know then I was blacked out and I don’t even know you know now really what what else mechanically was actually done but that’s just one situation either had I have been sexually abused and other contexts even earlier in life and and how many of us have had to and so there is a movement around Rites of Passage I sit on the board if you passageways which is a network that focus is squarely on you no Rites of Passage for you coming of age from all different walks and and and modalities you know some of them are our Boys to Men oriented some of them are girls to women some of them are starting to incorporate non gender binary kind of approaches as well which is good and and this whole focus on bringing back the ancestors into looking at Rites of Passage is is starting to happen and something that I focused on and so that’s that’s a resource you know people can go to youth passageways. Oregon and look at what programs are out there and they can also think about how they can add to that list and bring in things that are needed around especially around sexuality and relationship which is often I noticed kind of a big gap in a lot of programs out there you know because they’re confined confined or constrained by the conservative values where they take place and you know what school system is you know this is one of those places lagging for that kind of thing so it’s a role that I think that many people who understand the need can step into and cultivate as career paths you know and some people are pig figuring out how they can weave their credentials says on Sexual Health Educators or sexual therapist or sexual trauma or no trauma-based therapists you know into this realm of initiation and that’s that needs to happen on a on an increased level the other I see a lot of because of what I was saying around looks really don’t how many Avenues to learn other than through you know what the books in the workshops and offerings around sexuality thoughts unfortunately are not rooted in in people’s only need two lineages generally speaking you know so the whole Tantra movement is pretty much so you know a cultural appropriator of New Age fight version of those Traditions that would have been squashed by Christianity especially and so I think there’s work to be done there and as much as possible Retreat retrieving reconstructing are reconnecting with our own ancestral Traditions which I’m sure you know had their own knowledge wisdom around how to how to raise healthy harmonious individuals with healthy sexualities from from the vantage point of how what little I do know has been has been done in indigenous cultures and without wanting to appropriate for them from them I’ll just give way of examples out of that you know in and certain cultures that are studied like the Mayan culture and I think to some degree on certain places within Creek culture there’s examples of how as societies you know that the children are raised from an early age 2 reach a point where they understand how to how to harmonize with the other sex and how to to look after each other and that’s just a very basic principle that I feel like you know that’s that’s worth kind of learning how to integrate into our family structures if we have children that were raising just to keep in mind that you know there is a need for them to learn skills around things like consent and around being responsible with with one’s sexual energies and and I needs to start before they reach that age of adolescence where they’re just harder to connect with if you haven’t built up that Foundation so that’s something that I think about will do you so if I if if we check out that the organization that you mention is it would that be good place to find and something like a more enlightened or more conscious like sexual education curriculum or guidebook do you know if people were working on something like that so if I know if you know parents who were going through the puberty of their child that they have something that’s not just this cold clinical Western and even though that sort of evolving a little bit you know with things like a sack didn’t and whatnot I see a lot but the The ancestral wisdom and you know the ceremonial Rites of Passage you know how does it how does the Modern Family say okay well you’re about to start feeling you know hormonal Energy’s how do we give you know create even if it’s just within their family or their Community yoga or whatever is something more than what’s being offered in the normal sex ed or what they’re listening in gangster rap music and watching on sitcoms obviously you know it’s enough for lack of lot of alternative options it’s one one place to look and we’re always looking for others so whenever we discover something then we will see to auditory resources and we are trying to vet those resources and those organizations to make sure that they really are you know at least there’s some some level of you know safe recommendation that we can give for those those organizations we’re not we’re not in the position to really kind of completely you know set standards but we are trying to we have a code of what we call it a cross-cultural protocol so we do look at that aspect that you have for what we’re talking about that’s you know if that’s another layer that we will hopefully get to eventually and I do know that there are people within our Network who are really strongly focused on this particularly around girls to women kind of education and and Rites of Passage and some of the Boys to Men once but I think it’s also something we need to to enhance as well oh that’s great yeah that’s that’s that’s what I wanted to hear so that I can just refer people to this ongoing and so and then the LSI is kind of its there’s a Facebook I’ve been interacting with the the Facebook group for a while so is that something you recommend people plug-in I mean that’s the goal of that is to feature blogs and generate discussions from those blogs and also to establish a resource of services as well as information and so that’s you know running on in a very limited volunteer capacity and so you know it’s something that I hope will eventually become a very powerful resource but already it’s you know it’s been feedback that I’ve received that you know even just the the group that we have on Facebook somebody posted recently. You know it’s really help them in their in their path which is nice to hear and I’ve heard that a few times and I try to curate that group in such a way where it’s like you know it’s trying to generate discussion and it’s it’s trying to be a safe space where where people can get into some of those I’m intimate revealing is of what what’s going on in their lives one of the things that kind of came out of love sex intelligence local as a connection with Tamara and the love school that they have which is a very congruence philosophy to love sex intelligence and they’re their work to try to create or with to create safe spaces for people to to share stories of what’s going on in their intimate lover sexual lives and and B witnessed in a way that is non-judgemental where they’re not being flooded with advice but more just being witnessed which is kind of connected to that whole framework for Rites of Passage itm witnessing each other and so it’s it’s trying to also look at how you know communities can succeed in their in their goals which might include you know like being more sustainable or being an alternative to the systems around us and also being a part of a more peaceful kind of culture through filling this hole that is often where things go wrong where people are are are not feeling safe to talk about these these human experiences around wounding around are our hearts and our sexuality so I’ve been part of a Practice Group here that has been circulating also to other parts of BC and I think it’s a really it’s a really powerful movement to be a part of yeah we’re getting close to an hour or so I have to take a few more minutes and I’m get a couple thoughts and feelings some responsible for 1 something that his is coming up for me that I think it’s really empowering is this like idea that wouldn’t it be nice if some of us started to think of ourselves as aspiring Elders I’ve never thought of it that way until this conversation and there’s a little spark of joy and me that that says you know puts in context the the punk rock lifestyle that I had of live fast Die Young and just you know if it’s not throwing yourself into the meat grinder of insurrectionary activism you know with this sort of Death Wish you know this martyr complex or whatever it’s like those are really unsustainable archetypes to follow and they leave a lot of people when they get to my age in about 35 like in a sort of existential crisis that will the revolution didn’t happen and I didn’t get killed I didn’t die in the gutter you know I mean what am I going to do now and it’s like well maybe it’s time to become an aspiring Elder and you know clean up your act and and then start to think about how you’re going to make it easier cuz I there’s a lot of things that I had to go through that I would seriously love to have no one else ever have to go through and if you know if we can live in that. you know that is what you’re supposed to think that I think of you say you know you can you can learn from the wisdom of Elders who have gone through and made the mistakes that you’re probably going to go through or you can just be hard-headed and learn all your lessons the hard way but I mean we’ve had to learn a lot of hard lessons in the absence of the eldership but I think if we take on that there’s a yeah me too. It seems obvious but really the way you put it his medicine for me to think you know it’s a dignified path to be an aspiring Elder and then it makes you not be so how do I can help you defeat that that that grinding pressure that oh my I’m going to lose my looks and I’m going to lose my energy and I’m going to be in the state of deprecation towards death and that’s very much the greatest fear of the western manicured Uno photoshopped airbrushed identity like you’re not really giving any hope that aging will be of any benefit in here just marginalized further and further so I thank you for that serve very much still give that time sacred eldership dignity not a light title to hold I think the true Elder wouldn’t really feel comfortable in it cuz it’s defining attributes of an elder that is really one that can help that role be the best it can be is one that is is really accountable is really present isn’t so on the move that if you can’t you know be relied upon to be there for the people that it serves now needs to ideally be in the in the fellowship of other Elders to kind of keep it in in in check in a way like we have to watch for the Cole group kind of phenomenon where people you know place a lot of weight on that person and in a way that can privilege them in certain ways and also lead to potential like power distortions and things like that you know it’s it’s only human that people will make mistakes and so having that kind of accountability of other people and also that time yeah you have people heart or a different there’s always like in every phase of life with the lifecycle there’s there’s like the maturing phases and so there’s like you know there’s a baby elder there’s enough adult Elder and then Senior Elder and so it’s just we have to learn at each stage of Life how to become the mature version of what that stage is and says just something to think about as well and it’s good to to get your feet wet early on in life so that you know we can have deep roots and and the and those are the kinds of people to like in the Tamara situation out of the black community they have a circle of Elders who are basically people who have grown with a community enough that they know the people in their community and then they serve a role as potential kind of like the Matchmaker but you know in a way where people can approach them in and ask them like you know I’m interested in this person and they can help you assess whether this is the right time or what is a good or bad idea and you know they can kind of that. Whole courtship in a way that you know really I think I wish there were more of those people around here don’t you let me relax you know learn the hard way what does that we’re just not compatible certain people in The Matrix the I mean yeah I’m not I’m not a political scientist of the Matrix but I will say that what got me peaked on the ecstatic trance dance group ritual ceremony festival thing was it really when I saw I think it was maybe the second movie or maybe it was the second or the third but there was a scene where they’re just getting down to like Juno Reactor I think was a soundtrack of a butt there is something beautiful about seeing the different the warrior culture Guided by elders and of course there’s different the archetypes playing out in Conflict split that to me was took it further than then the Star Trek Federation is a futuristic Elder guided Council guided kind of reality so that was kind of fun but yeah so that’s what came to mind when you’re at we’re talking about that be so cool if you’re early sexual oracle’s who you go to you know if we’re going to give you insights and maybe even have name your child for you or something cool like that you know be so cool but right on then will I worry about at the hours so do you have any closing touch you want to share or any other resources or should we just I’ll post the the links that you mention and I’ll definitely encourage people to stay informed and keep an eye out for your anything coming up you have any appearances or anything exciting like that coming up you want to mention I think yeah I think I covered a lot of it and I just wanted to maybe plant a seed while I have the airwaves here about something that I’d I’d eventually like to work on presenting which is around insert Intercultural relationships and also decolonizing our relationships as well and just thinking about how how we can heal some of these ancestral traumas and use that has as as a means to strengthen our relationships and also our society right on I’ll be looking forward to everything that you’re you’re expressing in the world and I hopefully yeah maybe sometime in the future we can talk about skill sets for Beyond Christian monogamy that would be a great topic so yeah how would you feel about that maybe we can sometime in the next few months follow up with something like that. Maybe by the by the time I’ll have more of a personal lived experience to a base conversation around that I think you know in terms of people who are already I don’t know how many listeners here are on a Christian spiritual path without that many but if the energy and gnosticism and sacred marriage not going to the alchemical top in the in the Gnostic tradition but I I wouldn’t make any claims to be an expert in that area but it’s definitely something to look at cool alright then we will be in touch and will follow up sometime in the future and thank you so much so be I really enjoyed it and I know it’s taking us a while to get this to get this done but I think it was perfect and I couldn’t ask for anything more so you have a wonderful day. Take care and keep for listening to the touch upon podcast please go to www.crunch.com and cook on the Donate button to help support the show in addition is to see me and if you want a podcast for donations will help establish permaculture goddess Temple every bite ecological employment for single mothers Please Subscribe and share your favorite episodes if you have questions or comments feel free to leave a voicemail at 818-275-1593 or email been at Contra Punk. Com Thomas Day